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Author Topic: How to Solve an EFI No Start  (Read 161773 times)
Pmustang
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Location: Essex, England

« Reply #90 on: March 04, 2014, 10:51:50 am »

Hello. Thanks for the further tips

It's a challenge to understand some terms but luckily I am getting most of it

It's good to know it would throw specific codes if injectors were problematic. If it's only showing that it recognizes 6 cyls however. Would it be able to test the other two that are not firing?

Considering carbing it or a new fuel injection system. Car has not been right since the day it landed here.


If I get time I will bash about with it over the weekend.


I have pulled most of the wires off the dist while running and it certainly is a shocking experience.

You do hear it starting to stall out on  KOER test.

Cheers. Peter
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65 Mustang Restomod. 5.0.T5Z, vintage air, 4WDB, Rollbar,TCI suspension, coys wheels.

1990 SSP Fox Cop car in full dress.
Pmustang
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Location: Essex, England

« Reply #91 on: March 08, 2014, 12:40:34 pm »

Okay Joel

Listened to you and did the test w/o the code reader

Gotta say the test light method was very easy. I thought it would be hard to decipher the numbers but very easy in practice

KOEO.
21, 81, 82, 84, 85.

KOER
First showed code 3, 6 cyl
Ran two more tines showed code 4, 8 cyl
Then
21, 94, 44, 33

Then cyl balance
9

Car idling like a bag of scanners. UK speak for crap!

Also will not start on the key. Only when using hand held starter button on solenoid

Cheers. Peter
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65 Mustang Restomod. 5.0.T5Z, vintage air, 4WDB, Rollbar,TCI suspension, coys wheels.

1990 SSP Fox Cop car in full dress.
Joel5.0
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Location: Puerto Rico
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« Reply #92 on: March 09, 2014, 07:02:39 am »

Assuming you ran the self tests with the engine at op temp (~160°F)...... check the ECT TS procedure at http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,29608.0.html and LUK. 94, 44, 33 KOER and the TAB/TAD and CANP solenoids KOEO codes are OK.
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
Pmustang
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Posts: 36

Location: Essex, England

« Reply #93 on: March 09, 2014, 12:52:14 pm »

Oh my god mate. When I read your replies I feel even stupider than I actually Am!  Haha :-)

Going to the shop tomorrow I am raising the white flag.

Donated to your stroker fund.

Peter
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65 Mustang Restomod. 5.0.T5Z, vintage air, 4WDB, Rollbar,TCI suspension, coys wheels.

1990 SSP Fox Cop car in full dress.
redwalsh87
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Location: Litchfield County, CT

« Reply #94 on: March 10, 2014, 09:11:16 pm »

Hi all, first time poster. I read this thread, extremely informative along with the rest of this forum.

However, I have an issue which has me kinda stumped, hoping to get some input.

I currently have a no start issue. Fuel pump primes, computer is getting power, power at the injectors, coil etc. It barely sputters but will not catch. I've been reading a lot of threads and I came across one which said the car started after the spout connector was removed. Well after much frustration and testing this past weekend I did that and it started right up. Didn't run 100% and the idle was surging a little and dropped as it warmed up but ran up through the rpms fine. I went to plug the spout in and it immediately killed it.   Asking

A little back story, along with the no start issue I have also been chasing a no check engine light/code issue, these two issued started at the same time. I removed the computer and there were two capacitors that didn't look good so I soldered new ones in but to no change in the issues.

So does this all lead to a bad computer? these things apparently never go bad but the symptoms and this new spout issued lead me to think it might be.

Thanks for the input  Thanx!

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Joel5.0
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Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #95 on: March 10, 2014, 09:53:38 pm »

 Welcome...... did or have run a DIY self test (KOEO and KOER)? The ECM based on your description, is still a possibility but you need to gather the required evidence in order to really be able to direct the blame..... correctly. LUK
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
redwalsh87
2stroke
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Posts: 5


Location: Litchfield County, CT

« Reply #96 on: March 10, 2014, 10:09:30 pm »

Welcome...... did or have run a DIY self test (KOEO and KOER)? The ECM based on your description, is still a possibility but you need to gather the required evidence in order to really be able to direct the blame..... correctly. LUK

I have attempted to run the tests but have been unable to get anything, not even a blip. I thought my check engine light might have been bad so I also tried with a multimeter and still nothing. I have gotten codes from it many times in the past following the method outlined here http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=13 so I don't think I'm doing it wrong.
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Joel5.0
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Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #97 on: March 11, 2014, 07:23:34 am »

Follow the setup at the bottom RH corner and try to run a KOEO with a test light attached between de battery (+) post and the STO terminal. Check the procedure at http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,2471.0.html. LUK.

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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
redwalsh87
2stroke
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Posts: 5


Location: Litchfield County, CT

« Reply #98 on: March 11, 2014, 07:54:26 pm »

Well just got back in from running the tests, unfortunately still nothing. I set it up the way you mentioned Joel and also tried all the other ways just for yahoos again. My light or meter does not even register a thing 
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Pmustang
4 Banger
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Posts: 36

Location: Essex, England

« Reply #99 on: March 12, 2014, 10:28:28 am »

I just did this test and found you need a good ground for the test light. Are you hearing relays make noise after turning the key to on?

Cheers. Peter
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65 Mustang Restomod. 5.0.T5Z, vintage air, 4WDB, Rollbar,TCI suspension, coys wheels.

1990 SSP Fox Cop car in full dress.
Joel5.0
El Hombre
Administrator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 22510


Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #100 on: March 13, 2014, 09:15:25 am »

I just did this test and found you need a good ground for the test light. Are you hearing relays make noise after turning the key to on?

Cheers. Peter

Nope.... test light goes connected to the battery (+) post and the other end to the STO terminal (for the ground pulses of the codes). By connecting the STI terminal to a ground instead of the SIGRTN terminal (ECM filtered ground)..... you provide for the possibility of having a SIGRTN problem in the ECM or wiring harness. If you still cannot trigger the self test, you need to check the STI wire for continuity to pin 48 at the ECM connector and the STO terminal to pin 17. LUK
Logged

ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
Pmustang
4 Banger
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 36

Location: Essex, England

« Reply #101 on: March 13, 2014, 12:14:49 pm »

 Sorry  I am an arse. I got confused with the TPS test. I did my test light code test as recommended.


On another note. The mechanic withy car called and said they ran the KOEO test and got a code 22 in relation to the BAP sensor. I never had that code with my reader or done manually.
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65 Mustang Restomod. 5.0.T5Z, vintage air, 4WDB, Rollbar,TCI suspension, coys wheels.

1990 SSP Fox Cop car in full dress.
Joel5.0
El Hombre
Administrator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 22510


Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #102 on: March 13, 2014, 12:22:10 pm »

Make sure that it is not a code 11 repeated as OD and then as a CM code. If code 22 is for real though, make sure you do not have a vacuum line attached to the sensor (functioning as a MAP sensor) if code 22 is a CM only code. Otherwise, you can follow the pinpoint tests for code 22 at http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,19336.0.html
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
Pmustang
4 Banger
*
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Posts: 36

Location: Essex, England

« Reply #103 on: March 16, 2014, 04:21:23 am »

Thanks Joel

I will inform the mechanic

Bloody nuisance this computer stuff. LOL.

Cheers:Peter
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65 Mustang Restomod. 5.0.T5Z, vintage air, 4WDB, Rollbar,TCI suspension, coys wheels.

1990 SSP Fox Cop car in full dress.
redwalsh87
2stroke
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5


Location: Litchfield County, CT

« Reply #104 on: March 23, 2014, 08:06:49 pm »

I just did this test and found you need a good ground for the test light. Are you hearing relays make noise after turning the key to on?

Cheers. Peter

Nope.... test light goes connected to the battery (+) post and the other end to the STO terminal (for the ground pulses of the codes). By connecting the STI terminal to a ground instead of the SIGRTN terminal (ECM filtered ground)..... you provide for the possibility of having a SIGRTN problem in the ECM or wiring harness. If you still cannot trigger the self test, you need to check the STI wire for continuity to pin 48 at the ECM connector and the STO terminal to pin 17. LUK

Well I tested the wires for continuity and they check out. Should I try a new computer at this point?
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