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Author Topic: How to Solve an EFI No Start  (Read 165372 times)
Joel5.0
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« Reply #105 on: March 24, 2014, 07:02:54 am »

I just did this test and found you need a good ground for the test light. Are you hearing relays make noise after turning the key to on?

Cheers. Peter

Nope.... test light goes connected to the battery (+) post and the other end to the STO terminal (for the ground pulses of the codes). By connecting the STI terminal to a ground instead of the SIGRTN terminal (ECM filtered ground)..... you provide for the possibility of having a SIGRTN problem in the ECM or wiring harness. If you still cannot trigger the self test, you need to check the STI wire for continuity to pin 48 at the ECM connector and the STO terminal to pin 17. LUK

Well I tested the wires for continuity and they check out. Should I try a new computer at this point?

That might be the case. You might want to open up the ECM and check if you see the damage depicted at http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,15654.0.html. LUK
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
Pmustang
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« Reply #106 on: March 26, 2014, 05:59:43 am »

Went to visit the guy working on the car

He unwrapped the whole engine bay harness (was wrapped all together by previous mechanic)  it was an absolute nightmare.

Alt wired wrong. aftermarket A/C tapped into FI harness. One single wire run of under 3 feet had three splices

Map sensor connected to vacuume!

God knows how it ran previously.

I have some photos to post later.

Love paying out twice for a job that was supposedly done once.

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65 Mustang Restomod. 5.0.T5Z, vintage air, 4WDB, Rollbar,TCI suspension, coys wheels.

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redwalsh87
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« Reply #107 on: April 07, 2014, 08:34:23 pm »

Well just an update, sent my computer away to be tested and repaired. They said it was not repairable so I bought a new one. Plugged it in and the car fired right up like nothing happened. Took it for a drive and it was perfect. Thanks for all the help!  Thanx!
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FORD93GTFREAK
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« Reply #108 on: February 14, 2016, 10:17:13 am »

Ok, Joel...I'm gonna use your info in this thread to diagnosis my intermittent or NO SPARK sometimes after engine shutdown. The info you provided o  this topic, gave me some confidence in trying to isolate my issue.

I will update this thread with my findings
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FORD93GTFREAK
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« Reply #109 on: February 16, 2016, 06:44:03 pm »

with my ''No Start After Engine Shutdown, Intermittent Problem '' (the engine is at normal operating temperature).

I did this test, just a few minutes ago...          ''NO Spark''

  Loosen distributor holding bolt with ½" wrench, remove plug from coil, turn ign on, while holding the coild plug ~ ?" away from the coil tower, rotate distributor left-right-left....spark doesn't arc from coil to plug...

I get ''No Spark'' doing this test, however the engine will crank and run fine

I did this test with the Mustang sitting in my yard all day and the engine cold... Asking
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FORD93GTFREAK
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« Reply #110 on: February 16, 2016, 07:09:30 pm »

Can a bad mass air meter cause a no-start issue?  I have a 1990 5.0.
Nope.... even with the MAF disconnected the engine should start..... if it doesn't, with the MAF connected, there is a big SNAFU condition that needs to be ID'ed.
Joel, The MAF on my Frankinstang may not be working correctly, like the rest of my electrical issues. With the engine running, I can pull the MAF connector off and the engine dies. Is that normal?

I did not try to start the engine with the MAF connector removed...
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Joel5.0
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« Reply #111 on: February 17, 2016, 07:57:05 am »

If no MAF related failure codes show up in a KOER, the MAF is within spec. You do may want to remove the sensor from its housing and clean it with some carb/brake cleaner spray, though.
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
FORD93GTFREAK
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« Reply #112 on: February 19, 2016, 07:06:36 am »

TPS...I've been driving my Frankinstang to work all week (50 miles round trip) with my TPS " NOT harness connected"

The Frankinstang  has no change in performance. The acceleration is the same and I can't feel or hear any change with the way the engine sounds with the TPS connected or  unplugged.

Any thoughts on this one??
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85_GT
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« Reply #113 on: February 19, 2016, 08:08:55 am »

Cause the EEC is pretty smart Smiley  It has failure mode management.  For the most part, MAF and RPM are the primary inputs for injector calculation and spark advance.  Fuel and spark is all the engine really needs.  TPS lets eec know if you're closed, partial, or wot throttle. And it is used for acceleration enrichment, (carb pump shot).  It can determine those conditions by the MAF flow, but can't do pump shot when it fails.  And if the AE was never dialed in with a tune, it maybe just equally wrong as it could be right.  So you might not know the difference if it was never tuned to be perfect for your combo.  Tuned right, throttle changes at any condition will be smooth as butter.  Smiley

Similarly, if MAF fails, the eec relies on 'VE' table that is TPS vs RPM and populated with air values so it can run ala speed density.  Almost no tuners go to the trouble of updating that table.  And any combo other that stock will flow air differently.
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
FORD93GTFREAK
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« Reply #114 on: February 19, 2016, 08:46:23 am »

Cause the EEC is pretty smart Smiley  It has failure mode management.  For the most part, MAF and RPM are the primary inputs for injector calculation and spark advance.  Fuel and spark is all the engine really needs.  TPS lets eec know if you're closed, partial, or wot throttle. And it is used for acceleration enrichment, (carb pump shot).  It can determine those conditions by the MAF flow, but can't do pump shot when it fails.  And if the AE was never dialed in with a tune, it maybe just equally wrong as it could be right.  So you might not know the difference if it was never tuned to be perfect for your combo.  Tuned right, throttle changes at any condition will be smooth as butter.  Smiley

Similarly, if MAF fails, the eec relies on 'VE' table that is TPS vs RPM and populated with air values so it can run ala speed density.  Almost no tuners go to the trouble of updating that table.  And any combo other that stock will flow air differently.
Ok,  your reply is not in a language that I can understand, until I get the book I ordered and then maybe I can decode you comment...lol
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85_GT
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« Reply #115 on: February 19, 2016, 08:59:59 am »

No problemo... simply, behavior looks normal.
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
Joel5.0
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Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #116 on: February 20, 2016, 09:22:26 am »

Check the explanation of the FMEM strategy at http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,2471.msg31389.html#msg31389
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
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