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Author Topic: 351 11r heads or 408 tfs170 heads  (Read 3107 times)
gator
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« on: April 12, 2018, 04:58:18 am »

Near future looking to go 351 or 408 in my street car i drive 5 days a week. Rite now its 1995 mustang Gt 5.0 tfs170 heads custom cam x-celerator intake, holley sniper efi. 5 speed 3.55 gears. Ac cruise ps etc.. Street car street car street car

So with what ill have saved by then
I can do reman roller 351w, 11r heads, and 351 swap parts

Or 408w with current tfs170 heads, and 351 swap parts

A given will be the swap headers im going to buy will be 1-3/4 shorties no matter if i go 351 or 408, bc their are not any off the shelf long tube headers available for a 95 with 351w

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90lx, stock short block, stock cam, TFS 170's, 1.72rr, 70mm Turbo, 11psi boost, on stock tune-SOLD it
Current 95 gt stock short block, custom cam, TFS170's, xcelerator intake, Holley sniper efi, t5, 3.55 gear
juiced coupe
Six figures worth of don't give a f*ck
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2018, 05:32:59 am »

I'd go with the cubic inches. You'll have more torque and a better platform for future upgrades.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
knucklefux
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2018, 08:34:52 am »

I had a 351w in a 95gt.

Major traction issues.  Driving in the rain was a nightmare.

Fox headers will work.  Sn95 swap headers have the egr tube that you don't need since you changed intakes.

351 or 347 with great heads is what I would do.  225 high ports come to mind...
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2004 cobra-needs more boost
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2018, 10:25:07 am »

I agree the traction will be a concern a lot. Choose the engine size that you think you can deal with the torque/traction issues more easily. The bigger engine will make a better platform with the right heads etc.

BTW, isn't the HP 225 head about $2500 minimum for a complete pair? I'm aiming for HP heads myself with 300cfm for a 327/332 blown engine. I see the prices have jumped a bit in the last ten years.
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Don

1991 Mark VII LSC Special Edition, soon to be OBDII and 4R70W, then GTC body kit and 347.
1998 Mountaineer, plans for A4WD and KB 2200 blower later, XP8 parts, paint and a 332.
1973 Ranchero and 72 Sport front end ...will be a 351 Clevor, EFI and 4R70W.
juiced coupe
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2018, 05:24:37 pm »

Driving in the rain was a nightmare.

From my experience, all Fox/SN95/New Edge cars are evil in the rain. Regardless of power (even V6 cars), they all suck.

To be honest, I wouldn't consider daily driving a Fox platform car. I've got a scar on hy head from when I did. In my opinion, they are fair weather cars. If I'm out driving my car and it starts raining, I pull over.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
knucklefux
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2018, 05:30:26 pm »

rain is what caused me to wreck mine.

i put 315 nitto tires on it to improve traction.  those wide ass tires hydroplaned when i ran through a very shallow puddle on the highway.  ass end went psycho, and i hit the ditch.  the front tires went through the puddle just fine.

looks like 225cc high ports are about $2500.  they've been at that price point for a while now IIRC.
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2018, 07:35:21 pm »

Same for me, why my plans for my Lincoln are tame, after I wrecked my first one. It had rained a few hours before I drove home, on a narrow road. One corner was still wet and I had just gotten up to speed(WOT) until it hit 2nd gear. I let off as planned, but the back end was mad.

That didn't work out well, our roads here all have ditches, and the one I went into had a tree stump, hit right under the k-member, flipped the car, and took out a telephone pole. I stepped out of the sunroof, all glass broken except one quarter window, and the sunroof a bystander ripped off of the car.
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Don

1991 Mark VII LSC Special Edition, soon to be OBDII and 4R70W, then GTC body kit and 347.
1998 Mountaineer, plans for A4WD and KB 2200 blower later, XP8 parts, paint and a 332.
1973 Ranchero and 72 Sport front end ...will be a 351 Clevor, EFI and 4R70W.
gator
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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2018, 05:39:35 pm »

All good points here i appreciate the feedback.

Yep all fox platforms suck in the rain, this isnt my only vehicle but the one i choose to drive to work and back daily 55mi commute total
 i dont suppose i need a 408.
But what are yalls guesses on the two options above on power/torque to the rear wheel?
Would one be more street friendy than the other?

How would a 408 with tiny tfs170s and a street cam act? Powerband wise

How about the 351 with 11r heads and street cam?
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90lx, stock short block, stock cam, TFS 170's, 1.72rr, 70mm Turbo, 11psi boost, on stock tune-SOLD it
Current 95 gt stock short block, custom cam, TFS170's, xcelerator intake, Holley sniper efi, t5, 3.55 gear
juiced coupe
Six figures worth of don't give a f*ck
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The land mass between New Orleans and Mobile


« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2018, 05:46:58 pm »

Which 11R heads? There are several versions, from 170 to 205.

Your old heads can be ported as well.
Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
gator
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Location: North Little Rock, Arkansas

« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2018, 06:32:35 pm »

Which 11R heads? There are several versions, from 170 to 205.

Your old heads can be ported as well.

Oops yea 205 11r if i go that route
I looked into porting, im better off buying new and selling mine than port, buy valves, and lsx style springs
Logged

90lx, stock short block, stock cam, TFS 170's, 1.72rr, 70mm Turbo, 11psi boost, on stock tune-SOLD it
Current 95 gt stock short block, custom cam, TFS170's, xcelerator intake, Holley sniper efi, t5, 3.55 gear
knucklefux
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« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2018, 09:10:09 pm »

for a daily driver, i'm suggesting that you stick with something 302 based.  that way you can have manageable torque at lower rpm, but be able to wind it up and haul ass.

i had a 351 in mine.  was much happier with the souped up 302 i put in after.  below 4500rpm it was fairly mild.  above that it pulled like a freight train.  i had rhs 205 heads, vic jr efi with holley hp, and a mismatched comp cam. 

some FAC high ports or 205 TW on a 302 will be plenty for a daily IMO.

but if you have to swap, 351 over 408 by a lot.  if it was a weekend deal, i'd say 408 and no worries.
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2004 cobra-needs more boost
juiced coupe
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2018, 04:22:17 pm »

I'd still choose the cubic inches. Especially if comparing a nice stroker to a remanufactured engine.

Yeah, power shifting at high rpm is fun, but higher rpm engines tend to be somewhat more finicky and require more maintenance.

Torque will put you into the seat and give you the power that you can feel. Its there when you forget to downshift, or just don't feel like it. No bucking, no fuss, no muss, just smooth power.

I also have the feeling that the T5 is going to disagree with either choice.

If you need to take some "bite" out of it, put less gear in it. It won't drag down a bigger engine nearly as bad.


Overall, I think that the 408/170s would be faster and more fun to drive than a 351/205 setup.
Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
Outlaw Bill
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« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2018, 04:51:57 pm »

Traction issues can be helped in other ways, don't give up the c.i.d of the 408 if you want big power. Also on the other hand the 351 will probably give you all the power you need for a "true" daily driver.
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2018, 04:25:54 pm »

I'd go with the cubes simply because it's easier to swap the heads, intake, and cam then pull the motor and have a 408 built down the road.  Should equate to less down time as well.  The 3.55 gear should be fine with the larger cubes too.   Also, those heads aren't all that tiny for a low rpm driver 408.  Ideally, you'd want bigger.  But, they can work fine and make good power for your application since you already have them.

How you drive it may be a problem!  You don't want to end up in a ditch or a wall.  Each build could potentially make way more than enough power to get you into trouble if you over drive it.  The back end can swing out QUICK and send you in a direction you never intended.  I've had a close call up a freeway onramp going WOT and hitting an unexpected bump on dry pavement with a much smaller motor.

The transmission may or may not survive.  I might if you have a regular street tire on the back and don't get stupid power shifting it.
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knucklefux
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2018, 08:56:45 pm »

yeah, i slid across 3 lanes doing something similar on an on ramp.  gave it a little left steering wheel, and a lot of throttle...slip n slide across the interstate.

fortunately there was no traffic that day, but the dividing wall was coming at me FAST. 
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2004 cobra-needs more boost
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