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Author Topic: What are the major short comings to a sumped stock gas tank on a street car?  (Read 6135 times)
82-GT
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« on: February 27, 2018, 01:53:09 pm »

Planning on upgrading to 3/8 line and an electric fuel pump this spring The stock pickup of coarse like the rest of the stock fuel line is about like trying to suck fuel through a catheter so I'll need to go bigger there as well.
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scienceguy
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« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2018, 03:03:24 pm »

Less ground clearance?   Have to be careful to not back into something?  Mine has been sumped for years.  No problems.
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1966 Mustang, Toploader 4-speed
Pump Gas, Flat Tappet 306
9.88 @ 135.67
juiced coupe
Six figures worth of don't give a f*ck
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« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2018, 03:50:35 pm »

Installation is the biggest problem, if you want to call it that.

On a Fox body, oveall ground clearance is about the same. The sump and lines will obviously be hanging in a location where there was previously nothing.

Why 3/8? If you are buying parts, the price difference to 1/2 is negligible.

If you are using any AN hoses and plan on running pump gas, I'd spend a little more and get an E85 rated hose. It'll hold up to the ethanol better.

Even better, PTFE hose. To my knowledge, it would only need replacement if damaged.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
82-GT
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Location: Maine

« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2018, 11:56:03 am »

No particular reason for 3/8. I just figured the fittings on the fuel pump, filter and regulator were 3/8 and this nothing more than a 300 odd h.p. street car so no reason to go bigger. If there is an advantage to running 1/2" in this application I certainly can.


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82-GT
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« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2018, 12:09:50 pm »

This is what I have in my cart so far. I know I'm missing something. This is the major stuff. I know I'll need fittings and other odds and ends. Any other major components I need? I can switch the sump and fuel line to 1/2" if there is any advantage on my car.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-11203

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-13201

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-12308

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-12-810

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-576-105

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g2538

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cee-4040

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juiced coupe
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2018, 12:48:01 pm »

The fuel pump is 3/8 NPT, which is a perfect match for 1/2 hard line or -8 hose.


I'd look into a Fox Mustang specific sump. They are a much better fit than the universal ones.


You want a 100 micron filter on the suction of the pump. This is to protect the pump from debris, yet not restrict flow. A restrictive filter on the pump inlet will damage it. Aeromotive has something in their tech area about it.

Even if you use 3/8 lines downstream of the pump, use the larger line on the suction. Same reason as the filter, don't restrict the inlet side. Remember, the inlet side isn't pressurized.


That is a good pump. Just be aware that you can't get replacement parts for it. Once the warranty is out, its a throw away item.


Personally, I'd get the NPT version of the regulator. But I'd be using larger line too. Honestly, a Holley regulator is just as capable and much cheaper.



Before it failed (after a long time), I used to have the same pump on my car. I used a -10 on the suction, with a large screen type filter. I used 1/2 on the outlet, up to Holley 803 regulators. I have 40 micron filters at the carb inlets.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
82-GT
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Posts: 39


Location: Maine

« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2018, 01:16:10 pm »

Thanks. I'll make the changes and search out a sump. Thank you for being patient with all my questions.
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scienceguy
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« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2018, 03:06:43 pm »

Yea, use 1/2" line.  As was said 3/8 NPT is bigger than 3/8".

A tip for AN fittings...  They go in 1/16th of an inch. 
For example: 
#6 is 6/16"...  which reduces to 3/8"
#8 is 8/16"...  which reduces to 1/2"
#12 is 12/16"...  which reduces to 3/4"

Now, you know...  if you didn't already.  Smiley
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1966 Mustang, Toploader 4-speed
Pump Gas, Flat Tappet 306
9.88 @ 135.67
juiced coupe
Six figures worth of don't give a f*ck
Global Moderator
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Location: Pascagoula, MS
The land mass between New Orleans and Mobile


« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2018, 03:14:56 pm »

Maybe look into the Mallory 140. Mallory is now owned by MSD, which is owned by Holley. They will sell you nearly any part that you may need for those pumps.

It seems that those pumps have been around forever, and for good reason. They work.

For a little under $400, you get the pump and your choice of regulator. Deadhead or bypass (return).

The return style will require more line and a return line at the top of the tank, but may be better suited to a street car.
Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
82-GT
4 Banger
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Posts: 39


Location: Maine

« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2018, 12:37:07 am »

Yea, use 1/2" line.  As was said 3/8 NPT is bigger than 3/8".

A tip for AN fittings...  They go in 1/16th of an inch. 
For example: 
#6 is 6/16"...  which reduces to 3/8"
#8 is 8/16"...  which reduces to 1/2"
#12 is 12/16"...  which reduces to 3/4"

Now, you know...  if you didn't already.  Smiley


Thanks. Never knew this though I feel like I should have. Great information.
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82-GT
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Location: Maine

« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2018, 12:43:31 am »

Maybe look into the Mallory 140. Mallory is now owned by MSD, which is owned by Holley. They will sell you nearly any part that you may need for those pumps.

It seems that those pumps have been around forever, and for good reason. They work.

For a little under $400, you get the pump and your choice of regulator. Deadhead or bypass (return).

The return style will require more line and a return line at the top of the tank, but may be better suited to a street car.

I'll look into the Mallory pump.. I was originally going to try a Holley Blue pump but a guy at work went through 3 of them in one summer so he switched to the Aeromotive and the problem was solved. His problems kind of turned me away from the Holley Blue fuel pump.
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juiced coupe
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The land mass between New Orleans and Mobile


« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2018, 03:04:19 am »

Don't get me wrong, the Aeromotive is an excellent pump. However, the fact that it isn't serviceable is a disadvantage.

If you still want the Aeromotive pump, there is nothing wrong with that choice. Just know that you can't rebuild it.


The Holley pumps seem to be hit and miss. I've seen some fail in no time, while others seem to last forever. A friend has a set of blue pumps on his street/strip truck that ard around 15 years old. The red pump that I used after the Aeromotive quit was from the mid 90s. Sitting up with fuel (especially pump gas) in them seems to be the cause of many of the fuel pump failures that I've seen.

Regardless of the pump used, having a restrictive inlet line, restrictive inlet filter, or having the pump trying to otherwise suck the fuel are good ways to damage them. The harder the pump has to work, the more likely it is to cavitate.

While hard to do with a sumped factory tank, its best to have the pump near level with the sump. This ensures that the pump gets a good gravity feed.
Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
scienceguy
Big Block
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Posts: 2453


Location: West Virginia

« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2018, 09:17:41 am »

Maybe look into the Mallory 140. Mallory is now owned by MSD, which is owned by Holley. They will sell you nearly any part that you may need for those pumps.

It seems that those pumps have been around forever, and for good reason. They work.

For a little under $400, you get the pump and your choice of regulator. Deadhead or bypass (return).

The return style will require more line and a return line at the top of the tank, but may be better suited to a street car.

I have Mallory 140's on my car...  one for the engine, one for the nitrous.  They both use the #4309 return style regulators.  The one on the engine has been on there since the fairly early 1990's!  Never a problem with it, and it's seen a LOT of hours and street miles.  It's really old.  It even has replaceable brushes.  The one for the nitrous has been on there since later in the 1990's.  Never a problem with either one.  The return style regulators put less strain on the pumps, and allow them to run cooler, as it's not constantly pumping at full pressure against a 'deadhead' regulator, and the cool fuel is continually cycling through.  They also run quieter.  I HIGHLY recommend a return style regulator.  The Mallory units have been good to me!

Good Luck!
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1966 Mustang, Toploader 4-speed
Pump Gas, Flat Tappet 306
9.88 @ 135.67
289nate
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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2018, 04:56:13 pm »

I have also been very happy with my Mallory pump.  I run mine with a return style regulator for the very reasons Mike mentioned.  I've done a rebuild kit on one too.  Not a big deal to rebuild them and yes the kit even comes with knew brushes for the electric motor.

Does anyone happen to have the part number for the E85 safe rebuild kit?  Found at one point then couldn't find the part number later on when I searched.
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\'65 fastback pump gas 289, 4.56 gears, and faceplated T5.  11.123 at 122.4
289nate
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2018, 05:01:52 pm »

I've found no down side to a sumped tank on the street.  Had a sump welded onto the stock gas tank in my '65 and have never looked back.

E85 safe line was mentioned earlier.  You need an E85 compatible filter element IF you ever plan on running that fuel.  The problem is the E85 can dissolve the glue used on standard elements.
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\'65 fastback pump gas 289, 4.56 gears, and faceplated T5.  11.123 at 122.4
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