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Author Topic: first time cam degree ing...  (Read 6086 times)
347HO
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« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2018, 10:12:17 pm »

I set my rod extension into the socket of the lifter and measured lift from there.
I threaded my dial indicator rod to screw into the block's cylinder head bolt hole vs using the magnetic base.

The extension must be as close to lifter bore center/parallel as possible for accurate lift numbers.

I used a coat hanger for the wheel pointer but if your block is already painted...   Might as well set your permanent pointer at this time.
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... it was REALLY revving at like 4K...
If I saw that thing in my rear view Im pulling over to let you by, I be scared of that thing Huh? i dont know wich car is uglier ur or mine?
Javier
Ugly?  Easy now -- that's my baby and it's got lots of unique character!  When I drop that built 445" stroker in it you won't have any time to "pull over to let me pass" because I'll have already blown past you when you figure out what the hell was that loud noise behind you . . .  
jetski247
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« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2018, 11:04:41 pm »

i wish i could do that but my dial indicators hole is horizontal and not vertical. i'll figure something out for sure to dial this cam in, maybe advance it but at least.........practice and see what it actually is.

so......im going to put cam in and mock up a lifter and dial indicator and check number one cylinder to see what i get......not sure what im looking for but i'll post results on a stock 1996 f150 5.8l cam.

im assuming i'll dot to dot the cam and crank, spin the engine over a couple revolutions to get slack/slop out, measure intake lobe lift and duration......meaning what degree the intake lobe starts to open the valve and how far and how long.......then do the same for the exhaust. and im guessing that one cylinder is good for all? i guess if i wanted to check all cylinders they would be close to each other depending on how accurate your measuring skills???

i mean, do engineers factor in slop from cylinder firing from 1-8 and factor in wear and tear and grind cam lobes slightly different to compensate for slack or wear over time???? or do they just grind the same all the way around?

im just saying, i would grind a cam slightly advancing down the firing order to help compensate for slop and age......to make up the difference.......or am i just over thinking this whole thing?
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I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
347HO
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« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2018, 11:23:08 pm »

In case you don't know...
You have to find and mark TDC.  Without that, your measurements are corrupt.
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... it was REALLY revving at like 4K...
If I saw that thing in my rear view Im pulling over to let you by, I be scared of that thing Huh? i dont know wich car is uglier ur or mine?
Javier
Ugly?  Easy now -- that's my baby and it's got lots of unique character!  When I drop that built 445" stroker in it you won't have any time to "pull over to let me pass" because I'll have already blown past you when you figure out what the hell was that loud noise behind you . . .  
jetski247
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« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2018, 11:46:44 pm »

yes, i plan on marking tdc with a dial indicator and not a piston stop just because that is how i build the engines that i build. this is the first american v8 ive done but yes, i plan on finding tdc with the indicator and marking  it with a pointer on my degree wheel and hoping that there is no slop in the degree wheel and will make sure that it is set up that there is no movement as i spin the engine over because that will just throw everything off.....without knowing where tdc is....is pointless.

so i will do my best to make sure as i spin the engine over that my pointer and my dial indicator will be the same over and over again no matter how many times i spin the engine over........but im about to find out......lol......
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I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
dennis112
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« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2018, 04:06:22 am »

yes, i plan on marking tdc with a dial indicator and not a piston stop just because that is how i build the engines that i build.

so i will do my best to make sure as i spin the engine over that my pointer and my dial indicator will be the same over and over again no matter how many times i spin the engine over........but im about to find out......lol......


IMHO, using a piston stop will be more accurate than using a dial indicator due to piston-to-cylinder wall slop.  The stop is very repeatable when placed on the piston, and coupled with a degree wheel, will lessen doubt of the results due to relying on less variables.
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Dennis

65' Stang, 434W NA, Victor Heads, Super Vic Intake, 11:1, Braswell Carb, Bullet SR Cam, G101A 4-Speed, 4:56 rear, 93 Octane Pump Gas  9.82@138.00
jetski247
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« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2018, 03:56:13 pm »

dont you have to use a dial indicator to set the piston stop?
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I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
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« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2018, 05:11:34 pm »

dont you have to use a dial indicator to set the piston stop?

The method is to mark on the crank degree wheel, each point where the piston stop, stops the piston. Then you know TDC is between the two marks, and the degree wheel is very big, so you have good accuracy, and can also mark the balancer.

That 5.8 cam is a roller yes? Ford only made three SBF roller cams, the HO, truck(yours), and the 80's Thunderbird(93-95 Cobra)cam. They used them in various models, my Explorers have the same cam. Lots of people dislike the truck cam, I don't know why. It hits 5000rpm easily automatically in my SUV's, the Lightning did well with it, oh well.
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Don

1991 Mark VII LSC Special Edition, soon to be OBDII and 4R70W, then GTC body kit and 347.
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dennis112
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« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2018, 06:11:46 pm »


The method is to mark on the crank degree wheel, each point where the piston stop, stops the piston. Then you know TDC is between the two marks, and the degree wheel is very big, so you have good accuracy, and can also mark the balancer.

Exactly.  Here is my home made piston stop:

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Dennis

65' Stang, 434W NA, Victor Heads, Super Vic Intake, 11:1, Braswell Carb, Bullet SR Cam, G101A 4-Speed, 4:56 rear, 93 Octane Pump Gas  9.82@138.00
jetski247
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« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2018, 09:10:11 pm »

yes, 96 f150 roller cam

i see the benifits of the piston stop, you would only have to find tdc once, mark it and you can do whatever you want with spinning the engine over and you will always know tdc as long as your degree wheel does not move or you bump your pointer or something like that.

im just curious of the cam grind and want to practice while ive got it out and all the stuff to do it. and if i see that i need to advance 2 or 4 degrees then i can make that judgement call....
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I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
jetski247
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« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2018, 10:47:58 pm »

oh yeah, what are the stock 5.8l pistons and rings specs?

are they cast? moly ring? napier second? hyper?

the rings are def smaller than the 5/64 aftermarket stuff i got, thats for sure.....
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I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
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« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2018, 10:57:25 pm »

Probably 1.5/1.5/4.0 mm.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
347HO
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« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2018, 11:29:40 am »


I second that
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... it was REALLY revving at like 4K...
If I saw that thing in my rear view Im pulling over to let you by, I be scared of that thing Huh? i dont know wich car is uglier ur or mine?
Javier
Ugly?  Easy now -- that's my baby and it's got lots of unique character!  When I drop that built 445" stroker in it you won't have any time to "pull over to let me pass" because I'll have already blown past you when you figure out what the hell was that loud noise behind you . . .  
jetski247
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« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2018, 12:16:27 pm »

so let me see if i can type this out.

eyeball tdc, set the piston stop and lock it down
set pointer to 360/0? or whatever, it really don't matter
spin the engine over and take a reading
take the difference and devide by two? move the pointer and that is tdc?
i'll have to watch that vid again, just trying to understand this and why not a dial indicator.lol.. im sure im way over thinking this whole damn thing when a fifth grader could do it.
Logged

I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
dennis112
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« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2018, 05:17:33 pm »

With a piston stop, you actually want to stop the piston from rotating toward the top of the cylinder.  This will seem counter-intuitive vs using a dial indicator.
  
Install the degree wheel and a pointer so that it is eyeballed zero when the piston is at the top from the cylinder.  Move the piston a small amount in either direction (maybe 15 degrees from TDC) and install the piston stop.  Adjust the stop bolt so that it just touches the piston.  Once touching, move the piston away from the stop a few degrees.  

Rotate the crank either way until the stop prevents the piston from rotating any further.  Don't try to force the piston past the stop.  Note the reading on the degree wheel (use a coat hanger bolted to the block as a pointer.)  Then rotate the crank the opposite way until the piston stops again and note that reading.   TDC is the difference (middle) of the 2 readings of the area that you COULD NOT turn the crank.    

Remove the stop and rotate the crank the #of degrees difference that you just determined.  The piston will be at its highest point in the cylinder.  This should be TDC and its where you want the pointer to be at 0 (or TDC) on the degree wheel.  

After moving the degree wheel and pointer to locate TDC you will then want to re-verify this so rotate the crank away from TDC and reinstall the stop.  Rotate the crank both ways against the stop again to verify that the pointer stops to the same# of degrees on either side of TDC as seen on the degree wheel.  Adjust as many times as necessary until you are sure that you are at True TDC.

From then on make sure you do not accidentally rotate the degree wheel without moving the crank nor should you readjust the pointer.  If you do, you have lost TDC and will have to start over.

Clear as mud?

After degreeing your cam you'll want to use the degree wheel to verify that your factory pointer shows zero on your balancer when at true TDC.
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Dennis

65' Stang, 434W NA, Victor Heads, Super Vic Intake, 11:1, Braswell Carb, Bullet SR Cam, G101A 4-Speed, 4:56 rear, 93 Octane Pump Gas  9.82@138.00
jetski247
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« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2018, 04:07:15 am »

thank you, i'll read this a few times when its not 2am and im a 12 pack into it. but......i see what your saying except that, which way do you turn the crank after you do the math?

lets say you set the piston stop at zero.
you rotate the engine and come up with 348 deg when it hits the piston stop
so your 12 degrees off
so which way do you turn the engine?

im just not seeing this whole thing......the hundreds of jap engines and french engines ive built you only have to find tdc one time, count timing chain links for both cams and your done.....you can advance and retard by moving the cam a tooth or so..............but your talking worn out crap......

we only read tdc once and with a dial indicator....there are several and i mean several training vids and books and manuals on how to find tdc with a dial indicator. this is the first v8 and im like wtf......lol.....double over head cam, four valve, shim under bucket....no prob....lol, this two valve, pushrod, non interference engine is just got me stumped......
Logged

I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
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