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Author Topic: Air/Oil Separator for PVC and VC Breather?  (Read 4796 times)
z-adamson
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« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2017, 01:40:25 am »

Wrong.

Speed density won't work correctly with unregulated vacuum leaks either.  Even a carbureted engine runs better without the vacuum leak you're creating with a pcv and open breather.

It's real simple...do one or the other for best results.  This isn't about what you can get by with, it's about doing shit the right way.

The pcv valve is "regulated" by the size of the plunger and in an sd system they draw air from the air filter box (factory setup) which is NO DIFFERENT from drawing air from an open breather as far as the computer and engine are concerned. Works juuuuuust fine....

With mass air, the volume of air that enters the intake via the pcv must be metered.
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z-adamson
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« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2017, 01:50:36 am »

I honestly don't get it.

Most likely, the best thing that you ever posted.

You must have no life.

Have fun playing with my account settings.
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juiced coupe
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« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2017, 01:50:46 am »

The pcv valve is "regulated" by the size of the plunger and in an sd system they draw air from the air filter box (factory setup) which is NO DIFFERENT from drawing air from an open breather as far as the computer and engine are concerned. Works juuuuuust fine....

Just so that we are clear.

You are saying that a breather with a 3/4" hole has the same CV factor as the small breather hose from the valve cover on the factory efi system?
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
juiced coupe
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« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2017, 01:54:07 am »

Have fun playing with my account settings.

Yep.

I'll fix them again for you later.

But I should have took a screenshot. Those were awesome.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
z-adamson
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« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2017, 10:36:45 am »

The pcv valve is "regulated" by the size of the plunger and in an sd system they draw air from the air filter box (factory setup) which is NO DIFFERENT from drawing air from an open breather as far as the computer and engine are concerned. Works juuuuuust fine....

Just so that we are clear.

You are saying that a breather with a 3/4" hole has the same CV factor as the small breather hose from the valve cover on the factory efi system?

No, I didn't say anything about cv factor, flow capacity, hose size or breather  hole size. Just that all things equal, using a "mushroom" style valve cover breather filter on a sd system is no different than using the factory breather which is a hose that t's off of the oil filler tube and connects to the air intake filter box. All that matters is that the air is filtered and that the flow capacity of whatever filtration system you select is a good match to the flow characteristics of the pcv valve.
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juiced coupe
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« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2017, 11:30:27 am »

No, I didn't say anything about cv factor, flow capacity, hose size or breather  hole size. Just that all things equal, using a "mushroom" style valve cover breather filter on a sd system is no different than using the factory breather which is a hose that t's off of the oil filler tube and connects to the air intake filter box. All that matters is that the air is filtered and that the flow capacity of whatever filtration system you select is a good match to the flow characteristics of the pcv valve.

Thats my point. When you change the flow capacity at one end of a system, it affects the dynamics of the whole system.

Nothing that you can say will convince me that using a high capacity breather system in conjunction with a PCV valve is the correct thing to do.

But hey, do whatever you want and so will everyone else.


If the OP is working on what I think that he is, I feel pretty damn confident that it doesn't use a factory SD system. And that he has already moved on, based on recommendations other than yours.
Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
z-adamson
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« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2017, 12:01:32 pm »


Thats my point. When you change the flow capacity at one end of a system, it affects the dynamics of the whole system.

Nothing that you can say will convince me that using a high capacity breather system in conjunction with a PCV valve is the correct thing to do.

But hey, do whatever you want and so will everyone else.


If the OP is working on what I think that he is, I feel pretty damn confident that it doesn't use a factory SD system. And that he has already moved on, based on recommendations other than yours.

Your point was that EFI systems, all inclusive, do not function properly when using an open breather yet the eec does not even monitor that on any EFI system beyond MAF. Last I checked 351w with factory EFI was a truck, van and bronco only engine and most of the time it was sd. It came with maf when it was a California destined vehicle with e4od and into the final couple of years of the eec4.

If a valve cover open breather is used, it does not have to exceed the flow capability of the factory breather. Different sized grommets and inlet diameters are available for open breathers not to mention different kinds of filters and filter media. You are not stuck with 3/4 inch. Be that as it may, let's hear you version of events as to why increasing the flow capacity of the breather without changing the pcv would be a problem. I am not saying it is preferable to do so by the way, just curious why you suggest that it is incorrect.
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juiced coupe
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« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2017, 12:49:23 pm »

I am not saying it is preferable to do so by the way

Then why do you keep saying that its fine.   <- not a question.



Can it be done? Absolutely.

Will it make the engine run bad? Way, way, way too many variables to give a hardline answer.

Why is it usually done? Most of the times that I see it done, it's used as a bandaid for other problems (typically excessive blow-by).

Is it the correct way to do it? No. And that is one of this sites original objectives, doing something that right way.




Soooooo...... If you're done with neither agreeing or disagreeing with me, maybe we can get on with whatever else is happening in our lives.

Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
z-adamson
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« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2017, 05:16:32 pm »

I am not saying it is preferable to do so by the way

Then why do you keep saying that its fine.   <- not a question.



Can it be done? Absolutely.

Will it make the engine run bad? Way, way, way too many variables to give a hardline answer.

Why is it usually done? Most of the times that I see it done, it's used as a bandaid for other problems (typically excessive blow-by).

Is it the correct way to do it? No. And that is one of this sites original objectives, doing something that right way.


You misunderstood me or took my words out of context, not sure which of the two.

We were talking about increasing the flow capacity of the breather and I asked why it would be a problem and I said that I am not suggesting that it is preferable to increase the volume of the breather. And that I was curious as to why you think it could be a problem.

However it is perfectly fine to use a breather with the proper flow characteristics, preferable in my opinion.

If you think that on all efi this (properly sized breather) is bad, then there we disagree. This is not a neither agreeing or disagreeing thing as you say. And what is so incorrect about a properly sized breather? I would disagree there too and say that if properly sized then it is perfectly "correct."
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vristang
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« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2017, 03:32:41 pm »

The pcv valve is "regulated" by the size of the plunger and in an sd system they draw air from the air filter box (factory setup) which is NO DIFFERENT from drawing air from an open breather as far as the computer and engine are concerned. Works juuuuuust fine....
As far as the computer is concerned, it is a vac leak.  If the leak were between the upper/lower intake, you would fix it wouldn't you?

If the computer doesn't know what the airflow is, then you are intentionally hosing up what the ecu is trying to do.

This isn't about what you can get by with, it's about doing shit the right way.
Exactly.
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z-adamson
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« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2017, 04:34:26 pm »

As far as the computer is concerned, it is a vac leak.  If the leak were between the upper/lower intake, you would fix it wouldn't you?

If the computer doesn't know what the airflow is, then you are intentionally hosing up what the ecu is trying to do.

Nobody said it wasnt a vacuum leak.

The difference is wether the computer uses a MAF sensor or a MAP sensor. If a MAP sensor is used then the fresh air source for the PCV valve could be the air filter box or an open breather. It does not matter. If a MAF sensor is used then you MUST draw the fresh air from a source that is metered by the MAF sensor. The fact that this is a metered vacuum leak is irrelevant to this.

And yes I would fix a vacuum leak between the upper and lower intake.
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