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Author Topic: Are there different sizes of manual trans flywheels  (Read 1848 times)
junkyardjeff
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« on: March 04, 2017, 06:34:41 pm »

A friend put a manual trans behind a 68 302 that originally had a automatic,he had someone get him a brand new flywheel and a used bellhousing and the rest of the parts but the starter will not engage the flywheel and just spins. From what I can tell the flywheel is about 1/4 inch from the starter drive when its all the way out.
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juiced coupe
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2017, 07:36:51 pm »

Yes. The flywheel, bellhousing, and starter have to match.

Is he trying to use the automatic starter with a early style manual setup?
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

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Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
dennis112
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2017, 07:39:43 pm »

Sounds like he has a 157 tooth flywheel and trying to use a starter for a 164 tooth flywheel.  It won't engage deep enough to spin the motor with that combo.  His old automatic starter should work just fine though on the 157 tooth manual flywheel.

Alternately, he could have a 157 tooth flywheel but has installed it in the bigger 164 tooth's bellhousing.  In this case the starter teeth are located to far outward from the flywheel.
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Dennis

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junkyardjeff
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2017, 07:58:46 pm »

I think he has the 157 tooth flywheel in a 164 bellhousing,tried both automatic and manual starters with the same result.
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junkyardjeff
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2017, 10:19:25 pm »

Did some research and found that the 157 tooth flywheel was used up to around 79 on the 289s and 302s in cars and trucks and 351s got the 164 tooth flywheel,in 80 both the 302 and 351 in trucks both had the 164 so now to decide the flywheel or bellhousing needs to be changed.
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dennis112
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« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2017, 06:40:47 am »

Did some research and found that the 157 tooth flywheel was used up to around 79 on the 289s and 302s in cars and trucks and 351s got the 164 tooth flywheel,in 80 both the 302 and 351 in trucks both had the 164 so now to decide the flywheel or bellhousing needs to be changed.

Either combo will work but as Juiced said, ALL the parts have to match the flywheel that is used. 

I assume that he already owns a clutch that matches his current flywheel so it may be less expensive to get the proper bellhousing. 

A 157 flywheel holds a max of a 10.5" clutch disc/pressure plate and the 164 is designed for an 11" disc/pressure plate.  The clutches don't interchange either.  The starter must match too or else it will either not go in far enough on the 157 wheel with a 164 tooth starter. A starter for a 164 tooth flywheel will grind like hell if used on a 157 flywheel from trying to engage too deep.

Clutch forks and throwout bearings for SBF should be the same.  One caveat is the fork pivot and attachments are different from pre-1968, with the 68' and later assembly being preferred.
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Dennis

65' Stang, 434W NA, Victor Heads, Super Vic Intake, 11:1, Braswell Carb, Bullet SR Cam, G101A 4-Speed, 4:56 rear, 93 Octane Pump Gas  9.82@138.00
junkyardjeff
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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2017, 12:38:01 pm »

Did some looking and there is a 164 tooth flywheel from Brute Force? that looks to have bolt holes for three different sized pressure plates so could that be a option.
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dennis112
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« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2017, 06:49:53 pm »

I was originally talking factory Ford stuff, but yes the aftermarket can offer various bolt patterns on their flywheels.
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Dennis

65' Stang, 434W NA, Victor Heads, Super Vic Intake, 11:1, Braswell Carb, Bullet SR Cam, G101A 4-Speed, 4:56 rear, 93 Octane Pump Gas  9.82@138.00
junkyardjeff
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2017, 10:18:48 pm »

Looked at the aftermarket 164 tooth flywheel and it has bolts for different size pressure plates so I think I found the solution.
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dennis112
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« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2017, 04:12:20 am »

Remember that the flywheel must also match the imbalance of the crankshaft.  From the factory a 68' 302 would use 28oz imbalance.  Pressure plates/discs are always neutral so that is not a problem.
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Dennis

65' Stang, 434W NA, Victor Heads, Super Vic Intake, 11:1, Braswell Carb, Bullet SR Cam, G101A 4-Speed, 4:56 rear, 93 Octane Pump Gas  9.82@138.00
scienceguy
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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2017, 11:51:05 am »

One more thing...  On the older cars, the automatic and manual starters are different.  If you have a manual trans, be sure to use a manual starter.

Good Luck!
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Haystack
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2017, 06:47:13 am »

Starters are all the same, auto or manual. The offset itself is different. They come in 3/8" offset or 3/4" offset. Look where the ring gear is on the flywheel. If its closer to the engine side its 3/8".

A 3/4" offset starter will start the car fine on a 3/8" offset, but the teeth will not retract far enough to disengage. Btdt.

If its a metric thread, it usually 10mm (9.5") bolts for the pressure plate. Standard are 3/8". The 3.8 v-6 mustangs use a larger 11" clutch with metric thread for the flywheel, the 302/351 trucks both use the same 11" clutch in standard thread.

Might get ya by in a pinch.
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1987 Ford thunderbird. sn-95 t-5, f-150 clutch and flywheel behind a 5.0 s.o. weighs about 3500lbs.
1986 cougar gs. 5.0 s.o. and aod.
scienceguy
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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 03:15:25 pm »

Starters are all the same, auto or manual. The offset itself is different. They come in 3/8" offset or 3/4" offset. Look where the ring gear is on the flywheel. If its closer to the engine side its 3/8".

A 3/4" offset starter will start the car fine on a 3/8" offset, but the teeth will not retract far enough to disengage. Btdt.

If its a metric thread, it usually 10mm (9.5") bolts for the pressure plate. Standard are 3/8". The 3.8 v-6 mustangs use a larger 11" clutch with metric thread for the flywheel, the 302/351 trucks both use the same 11" clutch in standard thread.

Might get ya by in a pinch.

On OLD cars, the manual and automatic starters are indeed different.  Different part numbers. 
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1966 Mustang, Toploader 4-speed
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9.88 @ 135.67
Haystack
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« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2017, 12:33:38 pm »

The the auto mustang and manual have the same part number.

When I did my t- 5 swap i used an f- 150 flywheel. Turns out that only the manual m5od 302 and 351w used the 3/8" offset. I decided to get one from a 92 or newer so it would fit in a 3.8 sn95 bell housing. All the parts stores carried the wrong one so I ended up at a junkyard. All the automatics were the same as the stock mustang one.

Every 164 or 157t flywheel used exactly the same starter. Only the nose cone and pinion shaft are different between them, even if they do have different part numbers the actual starter motor is the same.
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1987 Ford thunderbird. sn-95 t-5, f-150 clutch and flywheel behind a 5.0 s.o. weighs about 3500lbs.
1986 cougar gs. 5.0 s.o. and aod.
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