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Author Topic: Camshaft Installation 302  (Read 19171 times)
mjac
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« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2016, 10:59:40 am »

Outlaw Bill,all I know is the Manuel says with Hydraulic Lifters there is no means of adjustment and the Hydraulic Lifters adjust for Valve Lash and Valve Train Geometry. It also said,like yourself, that some earlier Models came with an adjustment on the Rocker arm nut. It said,except in extreme circumstances where the Heads have been reworked several times and the valves may be sitting up in the Heads, the Hydraulic Lifters will provide the proper valve adjustment. In that case they say to Compress the Lifters and check the Valve to Rocker arm Clearance and install a longer or shorter Push Rod if necessary to get the right clearance. I am not familiar with the Shims. Do you think a Very Mild Cam over Stock is enough to change the Valve Train Geometry so much the Hydraulic Lifters can not compensate for it? I am waiting to hear back from Melling Camshafts Monday to see if there is ANY possibility that this could happen. I do not have a tool to Compress the Lifters in the Engine.
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mjac
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« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2016, 11:10:48 am »

juiced coupe, looking at the Balancer I assumed it was a one piece design.How much of a possibility is it that the Ring Slipped? Between the Mild Cam causing Valve Train Problems and there being a Timing Problem perhaps caused by a Slipped Ring,which is more likely? Does a different Cam over Stock change the Timing? When I Dialed back the Timing a little bit it seemed to behave better. So I guess I will try and crank it,after I charge the battery AGAIN, while moving the Distributor through its range of adjustment. 
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mjac
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« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2016, 11:20:49 am »

teyerdhal, I had no choice. All I know is,I had a magnetized Drain Plug once and it used to collect a whole fuzz of Metal particles on it. This "Fixture Magnet" is one strong magnet used to hold steel in place for welding.Priming the Oil Pump should move the particles out of the Galleries and to get to the Journals the Metal Particles have to be circulating in the Oil. If that little Drain Plug can pull some of them out of the oil that Fixture Magnet has to pull some of them out of the Oil. Just guessing.
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mjac
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« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2016, 11:48:36 am »

juiced coupe, added location to Profile.
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Bam54
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« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2016, 06:20:52 pm »

You can call me whenever most your problem right is being lost in translation.

Bam
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juiced coupe
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« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2016, 08:23:25 pm »

You can call me whenever most your problem right is being lost in translation.

Bam

Yeah, I asked him to add his location in case anyone that could help lived close. New Orleans is a little much for me or I'd help him in person.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
mjac
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« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2016, 02:46:02 pm »

Uh,juiced coupe,I failed to mention the Balancer, along with the Truck, is THIRTY THREE years old with over 200,000 miles on it. I was really thinking. Do you THINK the Ring might have slipped? Everything points to a Timing issue caused by relying on the Balancer's Timing Marks just like you said. As far as the Valves not closing, a simple Compression Check would rule that out. So I went to the Parts store to get a Piston Stop like you suggested to establish a reference point. Nobody at TWO stores knew what a Piston Stop was. So I took a gander at the Internet to see what they looked like and made one. Took a Brass 1/4" Male Air Hose Coupling with Male 9/16 threads,cut off the nipple,ran a 3/8" tap down the guts of it and put a 3/8" Bolt into it. The Procedure I saw on the Internet was, go to Compression Stroke,Back Off,install Piston Stop,rotate engine by hand clockwise until Piston taps the Piston Stop,Mark the Balancer at the Pointer,Rotate Engine by hand Counter Clockwise until Piston taps the Piston Stop, Mark Balancer again and Top Dead Center is in the Middle of the two marks. I assume at that point you would be at TDC on the exhaust Stroke. From there I guess you would go to TDC on the Compression stroke,measure what 10 degrees is on the Balancer's Marks and use that measurement to establish 10 degrees before TDC with the new mark. How does all of that sound?
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mjac
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« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2016, 02:54:29 pm »

Bam54, let me establish TDC with the Piston Stop and see if my Timing Marks are off. If they are,like I suspect, that should be the problem and I should be able to Crank it right up. We shall see.
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juiced coupe
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« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2016, 05:18:42 pm »

The Procedure I saw on the Internet was, go to Compression Stroke,Back Off,install Piston Stop,rotate engine by hand clockwise until Piston taps the Piston Stop,Mark the Balancer at the Pointer,Rotate Engine by hand Counter Clockwise until Piston taps the Piston Stop, Mark Balancer again and Top Dead Center is in the Middle of the two marks. I assume at that point you would be at TDC on the exhaust Stroke.

As for using the piston stop, it doesn't matter which stroke it is on. TDC is TDC.

Uh,juiced coupe,I failed to mention the Balancer, along with the Truck, is THIRTY THREE years old with over 200,000 miles on it. I was really thinking. Do you THINK the Ring might have slipped? Everything points to a Timing issue caused by relying on the Balancer's Timing Marks just like you said.

While it isn't a real common problem, it is far from out of the question. I've seen a few slip.

Its not uncommon to find balancers that didn't slip but the timing marks were never correct to begin with. If not, adjustable timing pointers wouldn't be so common.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
mjac
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« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2016, 05:33:47 pm »

juiced coupe,yes, but I need TDC on Compression to set my Distributor with the Rotor pointing at the Terminal for the #1 Cylinder. Well,let me check TDC with the Homemade Piston Stop and see if TDC is TDC on the Balancer. Then we will know where we are at. You like 10 degrees before TDC?   
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juiced coupe
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« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2016, 07:34:58 pm »

You like 10 degrees before TDC?   

Its just a starting place, nothing else. When starting a engine for the first time, I normally just have the distributor clamp snug. That way, I can quickly adjust the timing as needed. After you get it running, you can figure out the small details.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
mjac
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Location: New Orleans, Louisiana 70127

« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2016, 09:30:03 pm »

I am confounded. I made a Piston Stop,it worked perfectly once I adjusted the Bolt length, had a positive stop. Felt compression through #1 Cylinder Spark Plug Hole,turned off key, rotated engine by hand well past TDC on Compression Stroke, installed Piston Stop,continued Clockwise rotation to reach TDC on Exhaust Stroke,had positive stop, noticed mark on Balancer, backed off,rotated Balancer to stop again and rechecked mark on Balancer,then rotated counter clockwise back to compression TDC,had positive stop,noticed mark on balancer, backed off,rotated to stop again,rechecked mark on Balancer, measured the distance between the two marks,2 9/16",divided it by 2, 1 9/32,measured over, and it fell on 4 degrees BTDC. So I turned the Balancer to 14 degrees BTDC, set my Distributor Rotor on #1 cylinder terminal in Cap,aligned the stator and clamped down Distributer. Primed Oil Pump and tried to start it. Began to start,spit back through the Carburetor and a Soft Flame came out. Tried retarding the Timing and the engine would not start.

The only thing I can guess is for some reason the Valves are not closing. Going to get a Compression Tester tomorrow to check Compression. It does not appear to be Timing. Have verified TDC Compression Stroke and Balancer has not slipped. It was 4 Degrees off and I compensated for it. Other then that I have no idea. Anybody have any ideas? 
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mjac
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« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2016, 08:11:37 pm »

Did Compression Test. Obviously Cold because engine won't start. and with Carburetor Throat Open. Registered 120 psi in all 8 cylinders which is what it registered Cold before. So I assume the Valves are closing. The Timing has been Verified. I do not know what else to check. Anybody have any ideas?
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Outlaw Bill
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« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2016, 08:13:18 pm »

Did Compression Test. Obviously Cold because engine won't start. and with Carburetor Throat Open. Registered 120 psi in all 8 cylinders which is what it registered Cold before. So I assume the Valves are closing. The Timing has been Verified. I do not know what else to check. Anybody have any ideas?
120 is low, its should be 150-170 psi.
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mjac
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« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2016, 09:36:12 pm »

Outlaw Bill,I agree. But the Engine was ice Cold. It registered 120 before the Camshaft Installation when the Engine was Cold but it registered 150 across all 8 cylinders when the Engine was at Operating Temperature. So it is registering the same Compression as before the Camshaft Installation.
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