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Author Topic: Camshaft Installation 302  (Read 19173 times)
mjac
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« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2016, 05:14:11 pm »

Bam54, I was not very clear. I put my finger in the #1 Spark Plug Hole,felt the Compression Stroke, found TDC on Harmonic Balancer,Rotated Balancer to 8 Degrees BTDC,then installed Distributor with Rotor Pointing at the Distributor Terminal for the #1 Cylinder. Then it Backfired through the Carburetor and a soft Flame came out. NOW,WHAT I MAY HAVE DONE, IS WHEN I FOUND THE COMPRESSION STROKE I ROTATED THE BALANCER "FORWARD" TO TDC THINKING I HAD NOT REACHED TDC YET. WHEN YOU FEEL THE COMPRESSION THROUGH THE SPARK PLUG HOLE HAS TDC ALREADY PASSED AND I SHOULD HAVE ROTATED THE BALANCER "BACK" TO TDC? IF SO,I WAS PUTTING IT 180 DEGREES OUT OF TIME. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

By "Self Adjusting" I meant the engine had Hydraulic Lifters and where not adjustable. The Camshaft is a step up from Stock,Melling calls it a "Level II Cam,that has a little higher lift and provides a little more low end and mid range torque and broader Power Band. It is not radical at all. The Melling Tech Guy told me I did not need new Push Rods. But I have to double check this since one guy said my valves might not be closing.
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Bam54
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« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2016, 06:15:43 pm »

Give me a call when you get a chance 386-965-1828. I have some suggestions for you. I will be available for the next hr or so


Bam
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mjac
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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2016, 08:24:02 pm »

Bam54,I did not see your post until Thursday.

I am totally stumped. Adjusted Timing at least 10 times. Engine wants to start and does start at times. Spits back through the Carburetor and a Soft Flame comes out of the Carburetor. The Technical Support guy at Melling Camshafts told me earlier the Camshaft,CL-MTF1, was a level II Camshaft over stock with a little extra lift for a little extra Low End and Mid Range Torque and Broader Power Band. He said I DID NOT need new Push Rods. I have to check back with them.

When I dial in less Timing it seems to backfire and spit back less.

Any Suggestions?
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mjac
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« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2016, 09:37:05 pm »

rob342,got anything?
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Jeff351w
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« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2016, 11:38:08 pm »

Bam54,I just checked my firing order and it is 15426378. Someone on another Forum said that is the firing order of the Melling CL-MTF1 Cam. I rechecked my wires and they are hooked up correctly.

So you set the plug wires on the cap in a counterclockwise order right?  I've made that mistake once myself and had similar results.

Hope you get it figured out.
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« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2016, 10:03:38 am »

NOW,WHAT I MAY HAVE DONE, IS WHEN I FOUND THE COMPRESSION STROKE I ROTATED THE BALANCER "FORWARD" TO TDC THINKING I HAD NOT REACHED TDC YET. WHEN YOU FEEL THE COMPRESSION THROUGH THE SPARK PLUG HOLE HAS TDC ALREADY PASSED AND I SHOULD HAVE ROTATED THE BALANCER "BACK" TO TDC? IF SO,I WAS PUTTING IT 180 DEGREES OUT OF TIME. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Sounds like one of two possibilities.

1- Your method might be flawed. If you can get your finger tip tight in the plug hole, you should be able to feel the compression coming up even when turing the engine by hand. Doing it by hand should eliminate the chance of starter overrun.

2- Your harmonic balancer has a slipped ring, causing you to get false numbers. Verify with a screw in  piston stop.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
mjac
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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2016, 04:17:32 pm »

Jeff351w, all wires are right with firing order in counter clockwise direction. Double and Triple checked. Everything checks out and I keep getting the same result.
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Outlaw Bill
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« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2016, 04:24:38 pm »

Valve adjustment is too tight or its a firing order/timing based issue.
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mjac
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« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2016, 04:44:15 pm »

juiced coupe,initially I tried several times turning the Crank by hand with the plugs out with one hand's finger in the #1 piston's Spark Plug Hole. I couldn't get a definitive feel for the compression stroke. So I resorted to bumping the Starter and reaching over and putting a finger in the #1 Spark Plug Hole. As you stated, I would get different degrees of over run every time. So I stopped the starter the moment I felt the Compression and the Pointer was a little after TDC. So I rotated the Crank BACK to 10 degrees BTDC and set up my Distributor with the Rotor Pointing at #1 Terminal. Tried to start it and it began to start up then spit through the Carburetor and a Soft Flame came out. But it was a lot better then before.

I am not familiar with what a "Slipped Ring" is. I just thought the Crankshaft Key locked the Crankshaft in place. A screw in Piston Stop is something that screws into your Spark Plug Hole and verifies TDC? If I have a 'Slipped Ring" is it a matter of Playing with the timing to get it into the Ballpark then adjusting it?

If you know anyone who uses or wants to use Lucas Oil Products, I can get them at Wholesale Prices. The same Prices Lucas charges Wholesale Distributors. From One Case to 55 Gallon Drums. Let me know.




  
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mjac
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« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2016, 04:52:05 pm »

Outlaw Bill,Engine has Hydraulic Lifters, so there is no adjustment. The firing order and wires have been Checked and Double Checked 3 or 4 times. Even verified the Firing Order of New Cam. Set the Timing 10 Times and still get the same result. The Timing seems to be in the Ballpark. It starts up. But then it spits back through the Carburetor and the Carburetor catches fire. I have no clue.
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Outlaw Bill
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« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2016, 05:02:54 pm »

If you have pedestal rocker arms the adjustment is the shims or push rod length. Stud mount arms are adjustable with the rocker arm nut.
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TeamZmotorsports 25.2 outlaw drag radial stock suspension 1991 Mustang
Thank You to the following for their help
TeamZmotorsports
Marcella Manifolds
Schoneck Composite
Ultimate Converter Concepts


"Stupid is as stupid does", "You can't fix stupid"
"Common sense is not common"
mjac
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« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2016, 05:19:29 pm »

Outlaw Bill, shows you what I know. I thought with Hydraulic Lifters there was no Valve Adjustments. The Camshaft is One Level above Stock. I was told by the Melling Camshaft Technical Guy that I wouldn't need new Push Rods. Maybe I have a Valve Problem because the Camshaft is one over Stock. I do not know.   
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Outlaw Bill
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« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2016, 08:57:21 pm »

http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/200/270/270-44746-16.pdf

Same for stock rocker arms.
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www.TeamZmotorsports.net

TeamZmotorsports 25.2 outlaw drag radial stock suspension 1991 Mustang
Thank You to the following for their help
TeamZmotorsports
Marcella Manifolds
Schoneck Composite
Ultimate Converter Concepts


"Stupid is as stupid does", "You can't fix stupid"
"Common sense is not common"
juiced coupe
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« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2016, 09:58:19 pm »

I am not familiar with what a "Slipped Ring" is. I just thought the Crankshaft Key locked the Crankshaft in place. A screw in Piston Stop is something that screws into your Spark Plug Hole and verifies TDC? If I have a 'Slipped Ring" is it a matter of Playing with the timing to get it into the Ballpark then adjusting it?

Most harmonic balancers aren't one piece designs across the exterior. The outer ring is bonded to the hub with a dampening material. Over time the bond can break down and allow the outer ring to slip out of place.

If you haven't already tried playing with the timing while cranking, now would be a good time.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
teyerdhal
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« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2016, 04:06:36 am »

teyerdhal:  Couldn't clean Block except for exposed Valve Train and Lifter and Push Rod Bores. Engine is in Vehicle. But I do have a Welding Fixture Magnet and another Smaller Ring Magnet on the Bottom of my Oil Pan.

The last time we had an issue like this when we were changing the Stator, the Automatic Vacuum    
 

I have the magnet too on the K&n Filter, it didn't save the journals.  particules were in the oïl galleries.
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