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Author Topic: Camshaft Installation 302  (Read 13160 times)
mjac
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« on: November 20, 2016, 02:22:32 pm »

Desperate. Need help Fast. Had a dead miss in one or two cylinders. Removed Valve Covers and two rockers were obviously only making 1/3 of travel. Removed Cam, two obvious washed out lobes. Installed new Cam,Melling CL-MTF-1. Tried to start it up. Backfires through Carb and Carb catches on fire. What?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 05:55:05 pm by juiced coupe » Logged
mjac
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2016, 02:37:28 pm »

Desperate. Need help Fast. Installed a Melling CL-MTF1 Camshaft in a 302. Tried to start it up and it backfired through the  Carb and Carb caught on fire. What?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 05:55:41 pm by juiced coupe » Logged
Bam54
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2016, 03:01:26 pm »

Which firing order are you using? Late model 302 uses a different firing order than early model 302s and the cam dictates which firing order is used. Also verify you are not 180 degrees out on the distributor.

Bam
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mjac
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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2016, 03:25:01 pm »

Bam54, I didn't know anything about there being a different firing order in later models until just now doing Google searches. The engine was installed so I do not know what year it is. It is in an 83 Ford E250. I know my firing order. How do I find out if my Cam has a different Firing Order then My engine? I would think the Tech Guy at Melling would have said something about this. I checked for it being 180 degrees out by putting my finger into the Number 1 Cylinder Spark Plug Hole,Cranked over the Motor and felt the Compression Stroke, lined up 8 degrees BTDC on Timing Marks and lined up the Rotor on the Number 1 Cylinder in the Cap.
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mjac
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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2016, 05:13:01 pm »

Bam54,I just checked my firing order and it is 15426378. Someone on another Forum said that is the firing order of the Melling CL-MTF1 Cam. I rechecked my wires and they are hooked up correctly.
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juiced coupe
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2016, 05:44:55 pm »

Did you verify that #1 was on the compression stroke? If not, you could be 180 out of timing.

Did you follow the correct cylinder numbering for a sbf? It sounds stupid but I've seen people use sbc numbering several times.

How did you setup the initial cranking timing? I set the balancer at 10 BTDC on the compression stroke and line up the rotor with the #1 post, then work from there. Unless something is wrong, it should crank.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
juiced coupe
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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2016, 05:53:56 pm »

Threads merged, and several others removed.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
mjac
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2016, 06:10:18 pm »

juiced coupe, I am desperate here. I checked for TDC by putting my finger in the Number 1 Cylinder Spark plug hole,cranked the motor over,felt the compression stroke,located TDC on the Balancer, rotated the Crank by hand to 8 degrees BTDC, put my distributor in with the rotor pointing to the Number one Cylinder, aligned the Stator and clamped down the Distributor. I just checked my firing order 15426378 and the wires again and they check out. I saw the Melling Cam's firing order is also 15426378. The only thing I can think of is when I was removing the Timing Gears I lined up the Timing marks vertically on the Gears with the Camshaft gear dot on the bottom and the Crankshaft Gear dot on the top. I turned the crank trying to get the Balancer Bolt off so I marked the bottom of the camshaft gear and the top of the Crankshaft gear and aligned the marks when I put the two gears back on. Rotating the engine by hand the two factory marks aligned perfectly like before so I thought I was OK. 
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dennis112
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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2016, 07:01:52 pm »

Pull some plugs and see if they are soaked with fuel.

Is your valvetrain adjustable?

Is the cam the same grind as before? Valves may not be closing all the way.
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Dennis

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juiced coupe
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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2016, 07:10:43 pm »

When re-installing the carb, did you hook all of the vacuum lines back up. Follow them out and verify that you didn't accidentally pull one out.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
teyerdhal
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« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2016, 09:04:55 am »

And you should clean your block before running it with the new cam, i didn't do it correctly on mine and the old cam particules killed the cranshaft journals.... 
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T5Z, 9" 3.25 reard end.
mjac
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« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2016, 11:43:47 am »

First of all, juiced coupe, I apologize for disrupting your website. I was trying to get a quick response. I was in a panic. I had no right. I am Sorry. 

THE Main issue is, that I was most worried about, if the Timing Marks on the Camshaft Gear and the Crankshaft Gear line up verticaly perfectly, Timing Dot on bottom of Camshaft Gear and Timing Dot on top of Crankshaft Gear, then the Camshaft and Crankshaft HAVE to be in Phase and the Camshaft is installed correctly. That is what I want to know. If so, I have some sort of Timing Issue?

dennis112: I pulled the plug of the #1 Cylinder to find the Compression Stroke to recheck the Timing and did not notice any fuel. But that is the only one I pulled. The Valve Train is Self Adjusting with Hydraulic Lifters. The Camshaft is a Melling CL-MFT1 which is what they call a Level II Cam. It is slightly over stock to give more Low and Mid Range Torque and a wider Power Band. Tech Guy at Melling said to check for Valve Spring Bind but at High Lift there seemed to be plenty of Travel left.

juiced coupe: I believe all the vacuum lines are hooked up. But I will recheck.

teyerdhal: I used Lucas Extreme Pressure Valve Train Assembly Grease on all Camshaft Bearings and Lobes,Lifter ends,Push Rod Ends,Rocker Pockets and Valve Tips. Coated Camshaft Journals, Lifters and Push Rods and their Bores with the Melling Assembly Lube that came with the kit. Used Lucas 30 Weight Break In Oil which is supposed to have really high ZDDP according to a Lab Test I saw. Couldn't clean Block except for exposed Valve Train and Lifter and Push Rod Bores. Engine is in Vehicle. But I do have a Welding Fixture Magnet and another Smaller Ring Magnet on the Bottom of my Oil Pan.

The last time we had an issue like this when we were changing the Stator, the Automatic Vacuum Timing Advance was stuck Wide Open. I have not checked that yet. Just thought of it.       
 
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mjac
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« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2016, 02:56:41 pm »

Where ya'll at?
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Bam54
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« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2016, 03:59:22 pm »

I noticed you said the rotor was pointed towards the number 1 cylinder did you mean #1 wire on the cap?
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"Take the horse out of the barn and let her run baby run"

www.ponyexpressracing.com

CHI headed 454 Clevor
9.24@142 1.30 60ft N/A
5.84@117 1.28 60ft N/A
3040lbs race weight
Bam54
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« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2016, 04:01:54 pm »

Also self adjusting valve train is not correct there are variables that might not be right since that is not a stock cam.

Bam
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"Take the horse out of the barn and let her run baby run"

www.ponyexpressracing.com

CHI headed 454 Clevor
9.24@142 1.30 60ft N/A
5.84@117 1.28 60ft N/A
3040lbs race weight
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