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Author Topic: will a marine block/crank work for me?  (Read 3657 times)
rob342
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« on: August 28, 2016, 02:25:07 pm »

if i buy this flat tappet marine short block, can i use it as-is to bolt my tw170's on and build my dd motor with the shortblock?

should i swap over my rods/pistons?

will my roller lifters work with minimal fussing?

should i keep shopping?

what am i not aware of? "marine block" is new territory to me. IMO it just means it was in a boat.

car will be a 92gt with 50oz balancer, tw170's, AFM N41(hyd roller), systemax, 75mm tb, and powerdyne bd11a


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white 92GT, with a black interior, pony rims, 5 speed with a 3.73 gear. came with a gear, exhaust, and a powerdyne. nice little cruiser, i didn't change much yet.

have tw170's, systemax II, 75mm accufab, anderson n41, t5z, ford racing 23lb billet flywheel, and a quarterhorse sitting here. cam may change
David Claflin
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2016, 02:35:52 pm »

The first Windsor I ran came out of a boat. At the time I didn't know any better and ran a reduced base circle cam with regular roller lifters. Now I'd just get link bar lifters, but otherwise you'll be fine, nothing really special about those engines I'm aware of.
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1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2016, 12:08:37 am »

If it came from a single engine boat, you'll be fine.  If it came from a twin engine, it "may" be a reverse rotation depending which side it came from. I don't remember which is which. A late 80s on true marine engine will have GT 40 heads.
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David Claflin
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2016, 09:15:57 am »

If it came from a single engine boat, you'll be fine.  If it came from a twin engine, it "may" be a reverse rotation depending which side it came from. I don't remember which is which. A late 80s on true marine engine will have GT 40 heads.
I wondered about that, I've heard something similar before and always thought it would seem like a lot of expense for the factory to have to spec a different cam, and a new starter to turn the engine in the opposite direction for something that is probably relatively low volume sales. I'm not a boat guy, but don't they have anything resembling a transmission that could reverse prop rotation, or are they direct drive?
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1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
rob342
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2016, 04:46:15 pm »

from reading I come across all kinds of stuff, like this: http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/194110-reverse-rotation-302-specifics.html

i think now i should get it, mainly for the low use block. i can pick up or re-use my crank. worst case(LOL) i'll be picking up a 347 kit from woody.

I AM a bit concerned i may find out the block is cracked from not being properly winterized, or being rotted out in thw water jackets.  i've stumbled across threads like that online, and I am near chicago so the ice part kinda worries me.  is there a place these blocks are known to crack from freezing full of water? some area i should be particular to inspect? at the same time, the seller is someone i trust to be honest.

so i guess now i'm wondering where would ice crack the block?
and
how/where do i inspect for rotted out water jackets(or does this even happen)?



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i would happily use it as a shortblock provided it seems to be standard rotation. i'm ASSuming we'll be able to tell by looking at the crank
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white 92GT, with a black interior, pony rims, 5 speed with a 3.73 gear. came with a gear, exhaust, and a powerdyne. nice little cruiser, i didn't change much yet.

have tw170's, systemax II, 75mm accufab, anderson n41, t5z, ford racing 23lb billet flywheel, and a quarterhorse sitting here. cam may change
rodbolt
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2016, 11:09:52 pm »

USUALLY boat engines are best used as anchors.

Rarely are they taken care of properly.  Winterized.  Etc.  Heat exchangers rot and gets water into the engine.  All sorts of problems.  They run full throttle and full load all the time and thus are commonly worn completely out.  I've done several over the years and never run into one that was salvageable to use in a performance application.  I look at them closely.  I've actually got one out in the shop that came out of a Mastercraft.  It's not cracked but the cylinders are 4.032, and that's not a .030 block.  It's a 4.000" block, never bored.  The ridge measures 4.002"  Jackets are all crusty.  Thing never seen an oil change; judging by the amount of wear in the bores, they probably poured 7 quarts of oil into it every time they used it.  That would be the extent of the "oil change".  Crankshaft cracked.  All bearings beat up, upper rod bearings JUNK.  I mean even the pushrods and rocker arms were galled/worn/junk.  Someone took the thermostat out, so the engine never got up to operating temperature.  Had red silicone all over the water neck and I mean ALL over it (and IN it).  It had E7TE heads on it.  Nothing special.  I think it was 240 hp.  GT40?  I have never seen GT40's on a marine engine.  Doesn't mean it didn't happen, I just haven't' seen it (yet).  Maybe a 260hp version or something like that.

The water jackets will be the tell-all.  If there's a bunch of rust and scale in them, they can be cleaned.  Worth it?  Depends on if you can find another automotive block in better condition anywhere for a decent price.  Look at the freeze plugs.  If they've been replaced, one or two might not match the others.  Dead giveaway that it froze at some point.  Also look closely at the back of the block, usually driver's side.  The water jacket cracks due to freezing in that area, and as well in the lifter valley.

I did have a "CCW" 302 (reverse rotation) years ago.  Everything looked normal except the camshaft, which was gear-to-gear driven (no idler), and the rear main seal, starter, water pump, and the front accessory drive.  The block was cracked.  I thought maybe I stumbled on something neat but it wasn't anything special.  Someone mentioned at some point that Marine Ford engines were 4 bolt mains, steel cranks, and better heads.  They are just regular run-of-the-mill engines with a couple mods to change the rotational direction depending on whether it was a port or starboard engine.  LH, or CCW, or reverse rotation is usually on the starboard side.  That brings me to a funny memory.  I bought a prop for my first boat off of ebay.  Came in UPS, I was really anxious to run it out to the lake and try it out.  Backed in, stuck it in reverse and it started going forwards.  Prop was a LH but my outboard was a RH rotation.  Had to put it in forward gear to back up.  Went back on the trailer and back home, in total disgust.  Typical of ebay-sometimes you never know what you'll get until you get it in your hands....
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BCOWANWHEELS
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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2018, 04:39:24 am »

ONLY DIFFERENCE IN CCW ENGINE IS CAMSHAFT AND STARTER
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