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Author Topic: new to, and confused with quarterhorse  (Read 26891 times)
rob342
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« on: January 07, 2016, 08:48:17 am »

i've read TONS. enough to be confused 10 times over.  i'm smart. i use linux, i program arduino's, i run a sucessful business... yet i'm confused. i'm hoping that after i'm done with this thread it will be a good read for other confused people diving in head first.


yesterday i installed my LC2 wideband and DB gauge.

the car cruises at 14.7-15.0
it idles at 14.8
WOT through 3rd,4th, 5th, it is steady on 11.4.

this is with a stock 92GT, no emissions, with a 76mm BBK MAF, premium fuel, and 14 base timing. car feels great for what it is.



I'm going to throw the quarterhorse in right now, and i'm still quite confused... but diving in head first.

1- is there a good read on datalogging for absolute beginners like myself anywhere? i don't fully understand how to do this. it seems everything i read is over my head or assumes i know more than i do.

2- do i need to get a USB to serial adapter and attach my wideband to my laptop with logworks to adjust lambda for E10? this is all new to me.

3- i'll be reducing the timing to 10 and I'm going to use the A9L2 tune. any advice from those who understand the "dummy feeling" i have from this steep learning curve?
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white 92GT, with a black interior, pony rims, 5 speed with a 3.73 gear. came with a gear, exhaust, and a powerdyne. nice little cruiser, i didn't change much yet.

have tw170's, systemax II, 75mm accufab, anderson n41, t5z, ford racing 23lb billet flywheel, and a quarterhorse sitting here. cam may change
rob342
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2016, 12:36:26 pm »

well, it's in. it runs.

only headache was trying to get this white plastic bracket out to chop the back off.


i even made a cable for the tune selector. someday in the future i'd like to program an arduino to switch tunes via momentary push button, while also illuminating a corresponding LED to let me know which tune i'm currently running.



so.. how does one learn to datalog?
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white 92GT, with a black interior, pony rims, 5 speed with a 3.73 gear. came with a gear, exhaust, and a powerdyne. nice little cruiser, i didn't change much yet.

have tw170's, systemax II, 75mm accufab, anderson n41, t5z, ford racing 23lb billet flywheel, and a quarterhorse sitting here. cam may change
85_GT
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2016, 12:45:54 pm »


the car cruises at 14.7-15.0
it idles at 14.8
WOT through 3rd,4th, 5th, it is steady on 11.4.

Good, that's about what you should see on the DB gauge. Can't see the pic right now.

I'm going to throw the quarterhorse in right now, and i'm still quite confused... but diving in head first.

1- is there a good read on datalogging for absolute beginners like myself anywhere? i don't fully understand how to do this. it seems everything i read is over my head or assumes i know more than i do.
BE itself or rather EA more likely has help sections on what to log if that is your question, rather than how to log.  Cause you have a QH, best just log everything, it can handle it.  Leave off N_BYTE, needed only with Tweecer.  That will get you all the data you need and then some to look at.  Are you asking how to understand the data?
2- do i need to get a USB to serial adapter and attach my wideband to my laptop with logworks to adjust lambda for E10? this is all new to me.
My bad, started to follow up but never finish.. Smiley  To configure, or log WB without using EGR input, Yes
My advice, don't get into the whole E10 hang up.  It confuses most and really doesn't matter.  Just leave as straight gas and accept that 14.7 is stoich. OR switch to LAMBDA display.  I do the first since I'm an old timer and feel 14.7 type numbers better.  Like being use to inches rather than millimeter.  Even if the fuel is E10, Ewhatever.  If the tune is right, you'll display 14.7 and that's good enough. Then richer is richer and leaner is leaner.
3- i'll be reducing the timing to 10 and I'm going to use the A9L2 tune. any advice from those who understand the "dummy feeling" i have from this steep learning curve?

Yes, set to 10deg.  Everything in BE expect it to be that.  If it's not, the numbers displayed or entered will be off by that amount you are from 10.
With A9L2 tune, just bear in mind that is a one size fits all to get you running and is set up for boosted applications.  You may need to fiddle with more things to get it driving 'perfect'.  I feel I've learned more by playing with the stock tune.  But if you're just after get it up running fast and interested in WOT performance mainly, go for it.  Then follow up with questions on decipha's site on it's nuances.
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
rob342
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2016, 04:05:18 pm »


BE itself or rather EA more likely has help sections on what to log if that is your question, rather than how to log.  Cause you have a QH, best just log everything, it can handle it.  Leave off N_BYTE, needed only with Tweecer.  That will get you all the data you need and then some to look at.  Are you asking how to understand the data?

I guess I kinda figured out HOW to log, next i'll attach the WB to the EGR and try to get that working. I attached the file I made(it's only about a minute long)

in BE when recording, the RPM sits at 0. any idea why?  when i rightclick the gauge on dashboard 2, rpm is defined as "N". not sure if that is relevant?

i have the tune burned to all 4 positions in the QH. i don't know which it's using. tune #0 i assume.


I will try to datalog my ride home from work later and then my next question will probably be about what to do with the data.  Smiley

* A9L2 2016_Jan_07_14-33-15.csv (768.29 KB - downloaded 126 times.)
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white 92GT, with a black interior, pony rims, 5 speed with a 3.73 gear. came with a gear, exhaust, and a powerdyne. nice little cruiser, i didn't change much yet.

have tw170's, systemax II, 75mm accufab, anderson n41, t5z, ford racing 23lb billet flywheel, and a quarterhorse sitting here. cam may change
thunderjet302
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2016, 04:17:06 pm »

I'm waiting to see how this goes for you' I want to pick up a Quarterhorse and BE but I've been put off a bit on the tuning aspect of it. If you figure it out I may have to pop over for help if I need it. You're not far from me and I would assume cheaper than a tuning shop  Grin.
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2011 Focus SE, 2012 Mustang 3.7, 2017 Honda Accord EX-L V6
85_GT
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2016, 04:18:50 pm »

Do you have the right mode selected in the hardware setup tab? Forget which option the are and don't have my stuff here at work.  N is correct for RPM, but there are numerous other items behaving so might be the mode.

RPM shows as 1550 and desired rpm shows 800, temps 130 and 64.  None of these are moving and should be.  Timing looks like registering right. It's low at 14 at what is probably idle.  So you are probably idling higher than desired.
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
rob342
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2016, 04:53:00 pm »

i have it on mode 1 right now, as per here: http://static.moates.net/quarterhorse/qh_notes.txt

i'll try mode 2, but i want to use the external switch to change tunes.  i'd eventually like a performance tune, a MPG tune, and a tune that exaggerates the idle lope for carshows
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white 92GT, with a black interior, pony rims, 5 speed with a 3.73 gear. came with a gear, exhaust, and a powerdyne. nice little cruiser, i didn't change much yet.

have tw170's, systemax II, 75mm accufab, anderson n41, t5z, ford racing 23lb billet flywheel, and a quarterhorse sitting here. cam may change
rob342
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2016, 04:58:58 pm »

I'm waiting to see how this goes for you' I want to pick up a Quarterhorse and BE but I've been put off a bit on the tuning aspect of it. If you figure it out I may have to pop over for help if I need it. You're not far from me and I would assume cheaper than a tuning shop  Grin.

....and getting cheaper by the day, recently switched from beer to coffee Smiley  it's funny on my maiden voyage i drove 2 blocks slow, got a little too happy because it ran, stomped on it in 2nd, and then noticed it wanted to keep going. something with the A9L2 is giving me a hanging idle. should be easy enough to cure though compared to the rest of the learning curve.... scared the hell out of me though as i wasn't really somewhere i should be flooring it(traffic).  Whistling
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white 92GT, with a black interior, pony rims, 5 speed with a 3.73 gear. came with a gear, exhaust, and a powerdyne. nice little cruiser, i didn't change much yet.

have tw170's, systemax II, 75mm accufab, anderson n41, t5z, ford racing 23lb billet flywheel, and a quarterhorse sitting here. cam may change
85_GT
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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2016, 05:46:52 pm »

Yeah, try opt 2.  There have been a number of posts over the years of people having issues when using the switch.  No reason you need all those tunes.  One will do all, except if you want to exaggerate and make it idle bad.
Since you run fine with a stock tune, i'd suggest loading the stock A9L to make sure you don't have hardware issues.  Like not cleaned connector enough.
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
David Claflin
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« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2016, 06:14:23 pm »

There is some good info on this site.
http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=13425

http://eectuning.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=296656702885d4b5c3312d10130dbedb

I'm certainly no expert, but I would suggest don't get too hung up on chasing "ideal" numbers in all situations. If the engine seems happy I don't mess with trying to make the air fuel ratio just so.
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1988 GT long term project
rob342
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« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2016, 08:43:08 pm »

David I will check those links out bright and early when I have a little peace and quiet.

I did get it to datalog and with the wideband. the MPH is surprisingly accurate.  I have attached the log. my novice opinion is the car pulls higher into the RPMs than before but the idle needs work. the RPM's kinda hang and take too long to drop, like the IAC is being lazy. reminds me of driving my PT cruiser with the AC on.

85_GT the only change to get it working was to change it to "mode 2"

* A9L2 2016_Jan_07_19-00-43.csv (14865.86 KB - downloaded 197 times.)
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white 92GT, with a black interior, pony rims, 5 speed with a 3.73 gear. came with a gear, exhaust, and a powerdyne. nice little cruiser, i didn't change much yet.

have tw170's, systemax II, 75mm accufab, anderson n41, t5z, ford racing 23lb billet flywheel, and a quarterhorse sitting here. cam may change
85_GT
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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2016, 10:36:11 pm »

Glad that fixed it.  Stuff looks normal in the log without scrutinizing it in detail. 

Those symptoms are the 'failsafes'  he added to run, not stall, etc.  Just things to be adjusted.  Even the A/C air was raise in it.  So if you turn on AC, it'll idle much higher.

Just realized you were boosted, so yeah, you're seeing some benefit of his tune as the stock one would be 'clipped' after you got into boost.  Best stick with it.
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
rob342
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2016, 02:35:17 pm »

Those symptoms are the 'failsafes'  he added to run, not stall, etc.  Just things to be adjusted. 

i gave up. too much. i tried following along here 5x with no improvement. i did make the car refuse to idle for a short time
http://info.efidynotuning.com/idleair101.htm#baseidle

i'll try it again in summer when it's warm and i enjoy being outside. i ended up going with "mechanical idle control" -it's simple, it works. i'm happy with the idle. i have it sitting at 750 and it doesn't feel like i'm on cruise control when i let off the gas.

now i'm playing with the DFSO to see if i can pick up MPG, and just to tinker with it and learn.

i'm planning to read this a few more times http://info.efidynotuning.com/fuel101.htm
if i determine i need adjustments, i'll try the IAC idle method again. it says i can't dial idle air until i get the fuel dialed in. 

i'm planning to go buy a serial to usb adapter so i can set the wideband for e10.  i want it right and accurate so it's less confusing to me down the road.
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white 92GT, with a black interior, pony rims, 5 speed with a 3.73 gear. came with a gear, exhaust, and a powerdyne. nice little cruiser, i didn't change much yet.

have tw170's, systemax II, 75mm accufab, anderson n41, t5z, ford racing 23lb billet flywheel, and a quarterhorse sitting here. cam may change
rob342
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2016, 12:24:44 pm »

well i got the DFSO working. i see the gauge peg to 22.4afr when the injectors shut off so i can see when it's working...but speaking of AFR...

i bought the wrong damn wideband gauge!! the sensor is good, the control box is good, but the output on the gauge is more or less useless for what i need to see. i need the readout to be Lambda, not AFR. i read that over and over and over and over in the Lasota tuning guide and also on the eec forum, but it didn't sink in what i was reading until i finally comprehended it.

i can display the wideband o2 in lambda instead of AFR on my laptop, but sheesh.

so rather than spend a small fortune on one, i may build a gauge. the arduino mega 2560 cost me $30, the screen/keypad that attaches to it was another $15.  

i will tie the the output wire of the wideband controller to one of the many analog input pins on the arduino. it will read the sensor value of 0-5v, do the math, and spit out the numbers i want on the screen.  the beauty of this is i only have to figure out the math once.



it only says that because i told it to. it's not actually doing anything. i'm still impressed the screen says anything right now. i picked it up from my local nerd store on the ride home last night. i've never attempted to put a screen on an arduino before. it always seemed too far over my head. i know when it's doing the math right, lambda 1.00 should be 14.13 for E10.. splitting hairs but if i'm bothering to try to learn all this junk, it may as well be accurate.

i know that seems silly to bother, but i'll remember the fuel table numbers and if it's programmed to be 0.88 at WOT, i'd like to see 0.88 on a gauge....or mre specifically i'd easily see it's 0.95 on the gauge and i'd realize it needs adjusting.
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white 92GT, with a black interior, pony rims, 5 speed with a 3.73 gear. came with a gear, exhaust, and a powerdyne. nice little cruiser, i didn't change much yet.

have tw170's, systemax II, 75mm accufab, anderson n41, t5z, ford racing 23lb billet flywheel, and a quarterhorse sitting here. cam may change
85_GT
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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2016, 04:17:38 pm »

Lot of work, little return.  You're going to tune with data logs and the PC.  Gauge is just along for the ride. 

If you like WOT of .88, you can leave your table with AFR gas and you'll have a value of 12.9 in the table.  Then you expect gauge to read 12.9 too.  Regardless of the fuel blend.
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
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