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Author Topic: first 351 build got lots o' questions  (Read 14533 times)
CDW6212R
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Location: Knoxville, TN.

« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2015, 10:17:52 pm »

Unless you already have a windage tray for it, I'd skip that for that rpm range. Those aren't going to help noticeably for that engine.

I'd run a forged piston if the weight is relatively light.
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Don

1991 Mark VII LSC Special Edition, soon to be OBDII and 4R70W, then GTC body kit and 347.
1998 Mountaineer, plans for A4WD and KB 2200 blower later, XP8 parts, paint and a 332.
1973 Ranchero and 72 Sport front end ...will be a 351 Clevor, EFI and 4R70W.
jetski247
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« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2015, 11:26:09 pm »

im confused.

all my years building engines (not just powersports) would tell me that the tightest fitting piston would be the best for long life, less blowby, lower expansion, better cold start, not to mention cost.....would all be good reasons for a daily driver to have hyper pistons?

is there a reason to go forged in a daily driver? especially a 2618 forging???

interesting info here for pistons..........http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=907570

and here for something you guys may want in the facts and myths???? maybe i missed the pistons myths but there is some good theories..............http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1061799


science tells us that 2618 should be able to run just as tight as hyper or cast but experience tells another story.....why???? who knows.....
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I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
juiced coupe
Six figures worth of don't give a f*ck
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Location: Pascagoula, MS
The land mass between New Orleans and Mobile


« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2015, 03:25:15 am »

all my years building engines (not just powersports) would tell me that the tightest fitting piston would be the best for long life, less blowby, lower expansion, better cold start, not to mention cost.....would all be good reasons for a daily driver to have hyper pistons?

From 85-92, Ford built thousands upon thousands of Mustangs with forged pistons from the factory. I couldn't tell you how many of them that I have seen with insanely high mileage on them, and still running strong.

And comparing a KB hyper to Jims custom Wisecos isn't even apples to oranges. It'd be more like a rotten apple to a prestine orange. Even in the small world of hyper pistons, I still don't like KBs. And I've seen pics and videos of Jim's Wisecos, they are like 10X nicer than any OTS piston that I've seen.

IMO, you are overthinking this. Its not like you are going to drive this thing 200K without opening it up.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
jetski247
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« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2015, 06:44:46 pm »

didn't i read woody doing budget build with kb hyper pistons? no im not comparing wiseco 2618 forged pistons to a set of hyper's Dissapointed.....im VERY well aware of how quick a set of hypers can become scrap given the right set of wrong circumstances.....

yes, before you tell me that those are budget and don't compare to quality and whatever....im not comparing woody's custom/modified wisecos to kb hypers if he does do anything to them.

i guess/think i need to do a budget stroker build.

im assuming this will give me the needed bottom end, extra torque to push this heavy truck that spends its entire life going 15min to work and in the spring/summer/fall to the lake pulling skis another 20min since this is what i mainly do for a living.

the truck rarely even gets to operating temp before getting to work, i have to  use cardboard over the radiator in the winter just to get it to 180 deg and  use 0w-20 or 5w-20 oil.

given those conditions, i think im not going to go to forged pistons.
Logged

I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
jetski247
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Location: bryan, tx

« Reply #34 on: December 25, 2015, 09:24:43 am »

do they make a stroker kit with dished pistons to keep compression lower?

seems all i find are ebay flat top forged and if forged is the only way to get the kit then i'll have to go with forged but don't trust those ebay kits and don't want 93oct compression

what about something like this??? is it junk? or just get woody's 1800$ do it yourselft kit i see advertised on here?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-351-3-393-BAL-SCAT-STROKER-KIT-Premium-Forged-Dish-Pist-I-Beam-Rods-/252051254078?hash=item3aaf6ceb3e:g:RFMAAOSwNphWZxd6&vxp=mtr


http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-351-3-408-SCAT-STROKER-KIT-Forged-Dish-Pist-I-Beam-Rods-/252051254198?hash=item3aaf6cebb6:g:o-IAAOSwHQ9WZxc0&vxp=mtr
Logged

I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
jetski247
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Location: bryan, tx

« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2018, 11:06:41 pm »

fyi, this stupid project is just now getting going......4 kids, single dad. money had to go other places but now its a different story.....im getting child support!!

so..........if you don't want to read all the previous crap,
rebuilding a 5.8l for a lifted f150, 1995 model
parts i have on hand......
two roller engines
one is a 96 all stock oem, really really good shape for a rebuild
other is the original, stock bottom end, ported gt40s with bigger valves, cobra rr's,  headers, edelbrock upper lower, 24# inj called to a 76 maf, a9p stang puter, baumanator tranny controller, no cats, pullys, msd, all the bolt on crap.
i have a mystery cam with pics in the grass roots cam section
the 96 engine is torn down and will be freshened up with a few things.

this will be going in a daily driven f150 4x4 w/35" tires and 4:10 gears with a stock torque converter on an e4od with a deep sump pan, shift kit and stand alone tranny controller.

budget is around 2k with the parts i have or where should i spend the money? again, not looking for high rpm drag strip power........with the original setup, truck was 2k @ 70mph and needed to kick down to 3rd going up small inclines pulling a trailer with the a/c on with 300k on the engine....lol go figure

i guess i have too many questions....like should i get new pistons to increase compression a bit, or stick with low rpm low flow heads? hell i don't know.
Logged

I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
knucklefux
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« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2018, 11:37:02 pm »

i'd rebuild the engine using the go fast goodies you have.

get the block bored, new pistons-rings-bearings...total rebuild.  if the gt40s don't need rebuilt, use them.  if they do need rebuilt, it's hard to argue against buying a set of the more budget friendly aluminum heads on the market.

use hypereutectic pistons to save some $$$.  i'd ask a pro which cam to use.  


edit:  btw, kudos to you for raising 4 kids on your own.  congrats for getting some help from the egg donor.
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95 gt-R.I.P.
2004 cobra-needs more boost
jetski247
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« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2018, 12:31:14 am »

Thank you knucklefux, its not easy.

but, if im wasting time with all these google go fast parts then thats fine, a stock rebuild will be the result. i just want the best with what i got but.....with no experience and fuel injection against me.....i doubt these stock cams will give me what im expecting. and i get it, i deal with people all the time that read this and that and come to my work with big dreams of making this much hp or this speed when i know reality is a whole nother story......

building performance engines for over 20 years you know what works and doesn't, what is a waste of time and money, which crap is marketed to sell but not perform, what is too big and what is not enough, what the customer expects and what is reality.....

the end result is usually a compromise of simple, expensive but yet cost effective as a whole.......and a whole lot of experience....lol.....those are the secrets...

Logged

I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
knucklefux
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Location: leesburg, ga

« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2018, 12:51:09 am »

a stock rebuild of the shortblock is reasonable and expected.  your application doesn't require forged pistons, so hyper are fine.  avoid cast.

the issue comes with the top end.  if neither your e7 or gt40 heads are good without being rebuilt, you're better off spending a little more to get new aluminum heads.  rebuilding the iron heads is going to end up being at least half the cost of some decent budget aluminum heads.

the rest of your goodies are useable.  use em.
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95 gt-R.I.P.
2004 cobra-needs more boost
jetski247
6 Banger
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« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2018, 10:23:36 am »

the heads are good, everything seems fine, may get pistons and rings to bump up compression a bit and a custom cam? would those be the best place to put money into with stock heads?

and if i did a custom cam does that mean custom pushrods too?
and are these crane rr's even worth putting in?

Logged

I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
jetski247
6 Banger
**
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Posts: 78


Location: bryan, tx

« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2018, 09:15:19 pm »

and its strange how cast pistons destroy themselves in high compression/advanced timing engine.....but yet the kawasaki h2r 4 cylinder, supercharged with over 300hp uses cast pistons because they hold up to high heat.....forged won't.

i remember building my first subaru after my cast pistons took a dump.....went with forged mahle and never had a problem....they come stock in the sea doo 4 tec engines......1.6l 3 cylinder with 300hp.....the insides are nice.....single overhead cam....gear driven supercharger, micro balanced so it does not have to be rebuilt......lol, well see.....
Logged

I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
juiced coupe
Six figures worth of don't give a f*ck
Global Moderator
Big Block
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Location: Pascagoula, MS
The land mass between New Orleans and Mobile


« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2018, 10:22:02 pm »

and its strange how cast pistons destroy themselves in high compression/advanced timing engine.....but yet the kawasaki h2r 4 cylinder, supercharged with over 300hp uses cast pistons because they hold up to high heat.....forged won't.

Forged pistons hold up to heat just fine, even better than a cast piston will. However, you have to run the piston to bore clearance looser than a cast piston.

It should also be noted that hypereutectic pistons are still cast, just from a slightly stronger material than typical cast pistons. And if built and tuned correctly, a hypereutectic piston can live a long life in high compression engines, as well as boosted or nitrous applications.

As far as timing goes, that is relevant. You wouldn't think about running a fast burn engine and a open chamber engine at the same total timing.

Mark O'Neal from Probe Pistons used to say something to the effect of "If you do it right, it won't matter what the pistons are made of. But if you screw it up, it won't matter what the pistons are made of".
Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
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