Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 19, 2018, 09:13:02 am

Login with username, password and session length
Director PLEASE!!!!
Add your location information to your personal profile. Thanx!
435246 Posts in 37263 Topics by 9537 Members
Latest Member: Mgabski
Search: Advanced search
Advertiser Inquiries
+ My Community
|-+ Small Block Talk
| |-+ Small Block Windsors
| | |-+ 351W Small Blocks
| | | |-+ first 351 build got lots o' questions
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Down Print
Author Topic: first 351 build got lots o' questions  (Read 12981 times)
CDW6212R
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2466


Location: Knoxville, TN.

« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2015, 10:16:37 am »

the more I think about it you'd be best to add a bunch of stroke above anything else

Ditto, given the OP needs, take your time and hunt a 408 reciprocating assembly for a good price, plus much bigger heads and a matching(custom) cam. That's the heart of the engine parts, the outside stuff you can change later as needed.
Logged

Don

1991 Mark VII LSC Special Edition, soon to be OBDII and 4R70W, then GTC body kit and 347.
1998 Mountaineer, plans for A4WD and KB 2200 blower later, XP8 parts, paint and a 332.
1973 Ranchero and 72 Sport front end ...will be a 351 Clevor, EFI and 4R70W.
jetski247
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 78


Location: bryan, tx

« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2015, 12:40:31 pm »

i was going to go with a stroker kit but they only offered forged pistons in flat top, most with higher compression than i was looking for

again, im not making a racing engine, just a better stocker

My best running/long life engines come from hyper pistons set up tighter for long life
and L dyke chrome top rings or thinner type but these are expensive and hard to find for car engines, why is that?

gapless rings just as good?

i emailed sbf strokers and they were not interested in a near stock build.

i see a lot of ebay stroker kits and engines like mabco but don't want to order something that im going to have to order all new bearings for that may be hard to find for stroker cranks?

i Just don't have enough knowledge or experience with these engines or parts that may be custom, i've read that the stroker cranks/rods require special bearings which may be hard to find???

what would happen if I advance the stock cam 4 degrees? this is a question no one has been able to answer, i guess no one does this? i was wondering if i did this, would it bring my power curve lower where i use it most but didn't want to run into problems such as increasing cylinder pressure causing deto or anything like that????
Logged

I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
CDW6212R
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2466


Location: Knoxville, TN.

« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2015, 12:59:27 pm »

The bearings for strokers are not a real problem, but the pistons as you point out are. I am soon going to be doing a "mild" 306 and the lightest pistons with near 10:1 are my biggest hurdle. The 302 is harder to get compression with using the short stock rods.

I'd give it some time and see what you might find for Windsor stroker parts. I'm not familiar at all with them, but I see so many combinations here. I'm thinking you might find a feasible used assembly, or maybe the pistons or rods at a great price at some point that could make the project worth doing. The 50CI would add directly 50+ lbsft across the bottom end, given nice flowing parts that can support it. The GT40 heads are tiny for an engine bigger than 351. Other heads will give up nothing on the bottom to those GT40's, with a good cam. But the parts and prices are the rub on those mild builds.
Logged

Don

1991 Mark VII LSC Special Edition, soon to be OBDII and 4R70W, then GTC body kit and 347.
1998 Mountaineer, plans for A4WD and KB 2200 blower later, XP8 parts, paint and a 332.
1973 Ranchero and 72 Sport front end ...will be a 351 Clevor, EFI and 4R70W.
jayh
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5471

Location: Buffalo

« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2015, 01:07:54 pm »

you are pretty much building a marine engine combo wise. Id go with a 418.  you can get the compression down if that is the goal
Logged

425" pump gas 6.2@110
jetski247
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 78


Location: bryan, tx

« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2015, 01:25:05 pm »

whats the difference in a marine engine?

i would like to do everything myself except for the machine work just to try to implement my 18 years of engine building to my own and first engine, i just don't know enough about them except for what i read on the net.
Logged

I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
wywindsor
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1544


Location: casper wyoming

« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2015, 03:05:36 pm »

You can get a stroker kit  with hyper pistons for a grand balanced.
Logged
jetski247
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 78


Location: bryan, tx

« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2015, 06:59:22 pm »

so lets see what im looking at:

stroker rotating assembly 1000
custom cam 400
heads 1500 and  hope they don't need additional work
machine shop/block prep bore/hone cam bearings 600
gaskets/seals 125 ish....
windage tray 75 if im lucky
and a tune which is like 500?? im guessing, last time i took my sti in for a custom tune it was 500 but that was years ago....
Logged

I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
juiced coupe
Six figures worth of don't give a f*ck
Global Moderator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8394


Location: Pascagoula, MS
The land mass between New Orleans and Mobile


« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2015, 07:20:22 pm »

http://www.fordstrokers.com/stroker-kits-/fordstrokers-408-stroker-kit-.html

This kit is $400 more than the eBay specials, and probably worth even more. The cheaper kits will likely require more machine work to be within spec, making the above kit even more appealing.
Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
85_GT
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1578

Location: NYC area

« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2015, 08:20:52 am »


and a tune which is like 500?? im guessing, last time i took my sti in for a custom tune it was 500 but that was years ago....

if you want to go on the cheap and learn to do it yourself, a quarter horse for about 250 gets you the h/w to tune it yourself.  Should be a fairly tame enough combo that won't need any 'fancy' tuning.
Logged

85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
jetski247
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 78


Location: bryan, tx

« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2015, 11:55:56 am »

i dont want forged and strokers already told me they dont do hyper

i just havent had good luck w/forged and daily or rec use machines

i looked into 1/4 horse, hell it took me a week to learn my first gen baumanator
Logged

I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
Outlaw Bill
Adv_SBFTechie
Big Block
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4760


Location: Canton, Michigan

« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2015, 12:19:41 pm »

Nothing wrong with forged, you must have had incorrect piston to bore clearance and etc. I won't use hyper Pistons at all.
Logged

www.TeamZmotorsports.net

TeamZmotorsports 25.2 outlaw drag radial stock suspension 1991 Mustang
Thank You to the following for their help
TeamZmotorsports
Marcella Manifolds
Schoneck Composite
Ultimate Converter Concepts


"Stupid is as stupid does", "You can't fix stupid"
"Common sense is not common"
jetski247
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 78


Location: bryan, tx

« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2015, 01:07:26 pm »

i want to build a tighter engine for long life and that (in my experience) is not possible with forged.

this won't be a race engine, just a stump puller, daily driver, not warmed up before driving.

machinist used a torque plate and all clearances are triple checked. i have always had to double the clearances wiseco says to use. two and four stroke, n/a and forced induction. bikes, cars, jet skis........never in a sbf but i would assume the same goes for it?

we only use forged if its a race only engine or the customer is just dead set on forged or it is prone to deto since some engines can take a lot and some can't.
Logged

I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
woody
FordStrokers.com-SBFTech.com Owner
Administrator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8614

Location: Chicago
Old School


WWW
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2015, 01:28:29 pm »

If you double the clearance suggested by wiseco, that would be incredibly noisy, all my wiseco pistons are in the .004-.005 range, and double that would lead to death quickly. Yes I dont deal with the 100 dollar made in india pistons, just not something we like to put our name on. Stroker cranks use run of the mill bearings, regular 1432 main bearings and extremely run of the mill 663 bearings which are small block chevy, so nothing rare, custom or hard to find.
Logged

331-347 Short Blocks 2099.00 and up
408-418-427 Short Blocks (F4 Roller Blocks Standard) 2399.99 and up
Dart Shorts 4199.00+
D.I.Y Shortblocks 1799.00

FordStrokers.com

Make sure you get your information from the internet gurus that haven't built SHIT, they did sleep at Holiday Inn last night, and we have a few of those gurus right here on this forum. Smiley
jetski247
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 78


Location: bryan, tx

« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2015, 03:11:16 pm »

yes, double the clearances, no excessive noise and yes, not a long life as a cast or hyper but......

the only way iv'e gotten wiseco's to survive any hard acceleration run is .006-.007 on cast iron sleeve-aluminum cylinder, liquid cooled and .007-.009 on solid cast iron engines liquid cooled.

i tried .004 many times and it worked........until the throttle is pinned for any length of time or high rpm was sustained longer than 20 seconds.......broke in or not, warmed up or cold.

i think .0055 was the tightest ive ever gotten a wiseco to survive.

again, im not threatening anyone or causing a war, this is just my personal experience building the engines that i have built including my last one which was my 400hp sti......which i chose to go with .0055 using forged mahle pistons which were recommended at .0025-.004 (if i remember correctly)

again, i have no experience with sbf and that is why im here. if i can get 150-200k miles with forged on a daily driver then forged it is.

oh  yeah, its mainly for subaru but good reading......none the less
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=907570

Logged

I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
woody
FordStrokers.com-SBFTech.com Owner
Administrator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8614

Location: Chicago
Old School


WWW
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2015, 03:23:53 pm »

Oh ya I am not speaking about anything snowmobile or 2 stroke related. Purely automotive and i have used 1000's of wiseco pistons, 2618 forged. Good luck on the project
Logged

331-347 Short Blocks 2099.00 and up
408-418-427 Short Blocks (F4 Roller Blocks Standard) 2399.99 and up
Dart Shorts 4199.00+
D.I.Y Shortblocks 1799.00

FordStrokers.com

Make sure you get your information from the internet gurus that haven't built SHIT, they did sleep at Holiday Inn last night, and we have a few of those gurus right here on this forum. Smiley
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines



408 Stroker