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Author Topic: first 351 build got lots o' questions  (Read 15067 times)
jetski247
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Location: bryan, tx

« on: November 30, 2015, 05:57:21 pm »

im going to be rebuilding my first roller f4te 5.8 and need to start collecting parts

if you read the introduce yourself section and see my post it will tell you a little more about what i want/need

here is what im thinking and you can tell me yes or no or it really doesn't even matter in your case

stock block bored .30 over since that seems to be the first everyone does
anything else i need to do to the block? oil passages, champfer this or that???? restrict this here???
stock crank and rods
hyper pistons w/moly rings
mls head gaskets
windage tray
5o Ho cam adv 4deg??? (have in the garage)
1.7rr's (already have)
ported gt40's w/bigger valves (already have)
edelbrock truck efi upper/lower w/twin 56tb and 1" spacer (already have)
fms underdrive pullies (already have)
fms stainless shorties w/bassani xpipe from gen1 lightnings (already have)
already installed a maf conversion long ago with some of these parts along with a baumanator and a bunch of other stuff to get a feel of how the mods were going to work with the truck

feel free to tell me if im an idiot or i'm wasing my money or keep this or keep that.......again, if you read the noob from texas you'll see a little more about the truck
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I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
wywindsor
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Location: casper wyoming

« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2015, 06:05:56 pm »

You don't need the mls gaskets. Spend your money on heads or a cam.
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jetski247
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Location: bryan, tx

« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2015, 06:22:42 pm »

how much is a custom cam?

which heads? im blue in the face from reading the myths on heads...i don't think i read a good answer but pretty much all of em suck somehow.
just putting the ported gt40's with bigger valves/springs 1.7's, ported to match felpro 1250's i noticed a power band shift upwards, the current engine makes ok torque but i don't want to lose any or shift it all upwards

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I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
Jeff351w
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Location: Imperial, MO
393 build & new trans in progress


« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2015, 10:53:05 pm »

Have the crank checked and the big end of the rods resized.  The crank may need to be ground or just polished on its journals, but chances are if it has any mileage it will need to be ground.  Have the machine shop chamfer the oil holes on the crankshaft, and maybe the oil drainback holes in the block.

An upgrade in heads would be a great idea.  GT40's even ported are small for a healthy 351w.  What size depends on your goals and usage, but almost anything would be an improvement.

+1 on the head gaskets.  Standard gaskets will be fine unless you plan major boost or juice down the road.

One last thing, you appear to like your lowend response of your current engine.  If you build it right, it will have more lowend than it currently does and still have more topend.  Also, even keeping the torque output the same but shifting it further up the rpm range will make it faster.

Good luck.
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SlickTang
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Location: VA

« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2015, 04:02:07 am »

I would save $$$ to buy a set of AFR 185 heads. You never read an article where they don't make amazing power. Run them with a Performer RPM air gap or Weiand Stealth intake and a 750-850 Holley DP. If you're going to use an OTS cam, and want a roller,  the Comp XR276RF Xtreme Energy 224/230 duration @ .050",  lift is .513"/.513" with a 110* LS. The xTreme energy cams have a split duration which helps with the SBF's tight exhaust port design.  I've got a friend that runs that same cam and the throttle response is great and it pulls hard through the mid range. I'm sure the other guys around here can improve on what I've said. Good luck with your build!
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I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.
jetski247
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Location: bryan, tx

« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2015, 10:37:06 am »

its going to be a daily driven fuel injected 4x4 with 35" tires and 4:10 gears, not sure if that changes things.

i was thinking of finding a good low mileage pull out engine, put that in the truck so i have it to drive and my 300k mile engine on the stand to start to build and can save up and put good parts on it as time goes.

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I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
Outlaw Bill
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Location: Canton, Michigan

« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2015, 11:16:14 am »

Well for starters how much do you want to spend?.

What rpm band do you want?. I'm guessing idle to 5500 rpms?

Grade gas you will use? 87, 89, or 91-93 octane?.
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SlickTang
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Location: VA

« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2015, 12:25:36 pm »

That does make a difference, the fuelie intakes will definitely make your costs jump. If it's going in a 4x4 truck,  the cam choice needs to be completely different, so disregard my first post.
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I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.
SlickTang
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2015, 02:28:34 pm »

It wouldn't let me modify my post. A Cam like the Comp Xtreme Energy XR264 or the Crane 449541. Both are for low and mid range power, but the Crane Roller is advertised for off-road and towing. You're heads and intake will wake it up over stock. But like Jeff said, almost all the aftermarket heads would be an improvement. The original Twisted Wedge heads would be good for making torque. I'd sell the Edelbrock intake and use the Trick Flow R series with a 24 or 36lb injector and a 75mm throttle body . Find a good 1-5/8 header, long tubes if possible. Up the fuel pump to at least a 155 lph. That should have your truck sounding nice and making plenty of power in the mid range,  right where you need it for a 4x4.

I'm curious if you could get an EEC-IV from a 93-95 Lightning and have the more aggressive fuel and timing curves. Maybe someone else can weigh in on that. Because in the EEC-IV days, the computer only controlled the engine.
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I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.
bill88stang
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Location: palm coast fla, formerly long island ny

« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2015, 02:51:01 pm »

The 93-95 lightings are speed density and the computer also controls the shifting of the e4od
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1988 mustang gt 351w lots a goodies
1994 Lightning #2020 of 4007. daily driver
85_GT
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Location: NYC area

« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2015, 03:41:59 pm »

Or a CBAZA eec-iv and control an aod-e/4r70w
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
jetski247
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Location: bryan, tx

« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2015, 11:19:08 pm »

ok guys, heres some more curve balls....

im currently running a maf conversion w/an a9p, 24#er's, edelbrock upper/lower truck intake, big bore twin tb, full exhaust, 76mm maf calld' to the injectors, gt40's ported with 190's, 1.7 cobra rr's, and matched on the intake to felpro 1250 and fms stainless shorties, pullies, msd and a baumanator tranny controller.........

this truck rarely and i mean rarely sees over 4k unless im in the mud then its as much rpm as i can get to clean the tires and get through the rough....

if you were to ask me what i want most.............that would be throttle response...
i drive all sorts of high power sports equipment everyday........its not always hp.

my budget right now is around $3500 max. 
i am currently considering this.....

stock bottom end with windage tray
maybe flat tops just to increase compression for better throttle response but 
afr 185's with my current cobra 1.7's
and a custom cam...............
i will keep everything else since its already there and works

then a chip/tune or who does obd1 stuff????

yes? no? just rebuild what you got and leave it alone? continue to drive my motorcycles and jet skis if i want acceleration?

btw i build many many engines every year, just not sbf...........they are all jet skis and motorcycles........high rpm, forced induction, stock, two and four stroke, ive learned a lot by trial and error..........two strokes are my specialty.......and i can't wait to rebuild this thing.

i just never have and don't want to do a basic rebuild when i know there are lots of things that will make it better....
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I'll take a 2 stroke over 4 any day......
it aint an engine unless it requires a mix drink to run

Man is smart............People are stupid.....
Leroy Bienek
jayh
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« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2015, 09:08:11 am »

BIG induction little cam
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425" pump gas 6.2@110
jayh
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« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2015, 09:13:17 am »

the more I think about it you'd be best to add a bunch of stroke above anything else
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425" pump gas 6.2@110
wywindsor
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Location: casper wyoming

« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2015, 10:13:05 am »

I would get the Scat stroker kit about 1325.00 balanced.
 Block work should be about 600.00 with cam bearing and freeze plugs installed.
 205 profilers heads for 1595.00.
Cam from ford ford strokers or bullet 400.00.

   I know this is about 500.00 over your budget but you can ask here or over at the corral forum for used rebuilt heads. You should get a set for about a grand. There was a nib stroker kit there for a  grand as well. Shop wisely on the forums and 3500.00 will cover your build.
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