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Author Topic: typhoon intake porting  (Read 25367 times)
thunderjet302
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« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2015, 09:43:42 pm »

Here's the Edelbrock Performer RPM upper.


Close up of the runner where the bolt tube passes through.


Throttle body opening.
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1988 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp Magnum 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Edelbrock 70mm TB, 80mm PMAS slot MAF, 30lb injectors, FMS stainless shorties, 2.5" exhaust, AOD with 2800 PI converter, 8.8 with 3.73 gears, 31 spline Traction-Lok, 31 spline Moser axles, subframes.
2011 Focus SE, 2012 Mustang 3.7, 2017 Honda Accord EX-L V6
rob342
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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2015, 02:17:12 pm »

In the picture you linked, you will notice that we are in-process on porting.  This just shows a progress of opening the TB runner at the rear.  Those sharp edges get rolled and the runner entrances get further work as does the bolt bosses in the runners.  Anytime you see one of our pics, it may or may not be a finished product!

I have suggested experimenting with a "turning vane" here in the past.  Below is a pic of what I suggest.  The depth of the "V", the width and angle of the tails would need to be experimented with to see what is most effective if any.  The two runners next to the TB tend to get lower flow than the other due to the abrupt 180 turn required.




  that never even occured ot me. thank you for the reply Tom!

and thank you for the pictures of the edelbrock Thunderjet.

i'll get back to this project very soon. i have a basement floor to tile first (appease the girlfriend before i get to play with my car stuff).

i'm interested to try the turning vane with thin .040 aluminum to see if it has any effect. it'll be easy to bend/tweak before making a more permanent one. 

i need a bright idea on an easy way to check this without a flowbench?  or maybe since i have 8 holes to make i should have a second look at the home made setups. i don't really need an accurate number, just repeatable accuracy to balance the flow.
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white 92GT, with a black interior, pony rims, 5 speed with a 3.73 gear. came with a gear, exhaust, and a powerdyne. nice little cruiser, i didn't change much yet.

have tw170's, systemax II, 75mm accufab, anderson n41, t5z, ford racing 23lb billet flywheel, and a quarterhorse sitting here. cam may change
tmoss
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« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2015, 09:32:49 am »

a flow bench will not give you a good idea how it will work on the running engine - one is static flow (bench) and the other is dynamic flow........the best way to tell is by track data or a dyno ($$)
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Tom 88 vert 5spd 3:73 Crower 15511 cam @ 110, 70mm TB, SMII, GT40P wManley race valves Isky Springs and Ti locks/keepers, Mac 1.625 shorties, dumpoed Flowmasters.  www.fastlanecars.com     http://tmossporting.0catch.com/
thunderjet302
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« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2015, 12:11:03 pm »

So to try the vane it would be best to just make some track runs on a test and tune day? Any idea on a good starting point shape/size? Once I swap the RPM intake onto my car I'd be interested in trying this out at a test and tune day.
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1988 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp Magnum 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Edelbrock 70mm TB, 80mm PMAS slot MAF, 30lb injectors, FMS stainless shorties, 2.5" exhaust, AOD with 2800 PI converter, 8.8 with 3.73 gears, 31 spline Traction-Lok, 31 spline Moser axles, subframes.
2011 Focus SE, 2012 Mustang 3.7, 2017 Honda Accord EX-L V6
Outlaw Bill
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« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2015, 12:35:04 pm »

A flow bench could be used to check distribution of air flow to properly place the direction vane.
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tmoss
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« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2015, 01:42:14 pm »

A flow bench could be used to check distribution of air flow to properly place the direction vane.

true, but it better flow a good amount of air at 28" of depression - and you know what that takes...
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Tom 88 vert 5spd 3:73 Crower 15511 cam @ 110, 70mm TB, SMII, GT40P wManley race valves Isky Springs and Ti locks/keepers, Mac 1.625 shorties, dumpoed Flowmasters.  www.fastlanecars.com     http://tmossporting.0catch.com/
thunderjet302
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« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2015, 11:34:16 am »

In the picture you linked, you will notice that we are in-process on porting.  This just shows a progress of opening the TB runner at the rear.  Those sharp edges get rolled and the runner entrances get further work as does the bolt bosses in the runners.  Anytime you see one of our pics, it may or may not be a finished product!

I have suggested experimenting with a "turning vane" here in the past.  Below is a pic of what I suggest.  The depth of the "V", the width and angle of the tails would need to be experimented with to see what is most effective if any.  The two runners next to the TB tend to get lower flow than the other due to the abrupt 180 turn required.




I just swapped to a Performer RPM (see here: http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,37510.msg424251.html#msg424251) Any idea on what to make this tuning vane out of/how to secure it?
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1988 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp Magnum 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Edelbrock 70mm TB, 80mm PMAS slot MAF, 30lb injectors, FMS stainless shorties, 2.5" exhaust, AOD with 2800 PI converter, 8.8 with 3.73 gears, 31 spline Traction-Lok, 31 spline Moser axles, subframes.
2011 Focus SE, 2012 Mustang 3.7, 2017 Honda Accord EX-L V6
tmoss
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« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2015, 12:13:33 pm »

Aluminum, prob .060" thick or so to be stiff enough not to bend in the air flow.  Bend the sheet in half then secure in a vise between two pieces of pipe that you can then bend the sheet stock over to form the piece.  I would tack weld it in place but if that is not possible, you could try epoxy or use two small fasteners in the apexes of the curves.
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Tom 88 vert 5spd 3:73 Crower 15511 cam @ 110, 70mm TB, SMII, GT40P wManley race valves Isky Springs and Ti locks/keepers, Mac 1.625 shorties, dumpoed Flowmasters.  www.fastlanecars.com     http://tmossporting.0catch.com/
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« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2015, 12:57:41 pm »

Drill two holes on the outside of the manifold where the two radii of the vane touch the manifold, then rosette weld from the outside of the manifold to the vane.

The above should be permanent and not induce the chance of ingesting foreign material.
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... it was REALLY revving at like 4K...
If I saw that thing in my rear view Im pulling over to let you by, I be scared of that thing Huh? i dont know wich car is uglier ur or mine?
Javier
Ugly?  Easy now -- that's my baby and it's got lots of unique character!  When I drop that built 445" stroker in it you won't have any time to "pull over to let me pass" because I'll have already blown past you when you figure out what the hell was that loud noise behind you . . .  
rob342
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« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2015, 08:07:07 pm »

Your location says Chicago. If you're near forest park you can stop by my shop and I'll give you some 080 aluminum to mess around with.

I haven't had a chance to do anything car related as I've been working 7:30am to 10pm but this is still something I'll be testing asap.   right now i need to get my ass in the yard and start mowing. this is the first time ive been home when it was light out in two weeks. if my loud car didnt serve as an alarm clock for my neighbors every morning, they'd probably think i was dead


I thought about enlarging the bottom of the T shaped port right into the EGR area and eliminating the top part of the port all together. something with a nice curve, respectful of the intended airflow path. plus with a small turning vane.  any thoughts on something like this?

picture tha middle shaded thing an angled piece of 080 aluminum with a gentle bend where needed and the yellow lines as a turning vane that stands 2" high and only extends 1.5" forward, like where Tom drew(I couldnt draw it)


* Capture.JPG (89.32 KB, 766x568 - viewed 214 times.)
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white 92GT, with a black interior, pony rims, 5 speed with a 3.73 gear. came with a gear, exhaust, and a powerdyne. nice little cruiser, i didn't change much yet.

have tw170's, systemax II, 75mm accufab, anderson n41, t5z, ford racing 23lb billet flywheel, and a quarterhorse sitting here. cam may change
tmoss
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« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2015, 10:43:38 pm »

Rob - I would not close off the top half of the TB runner due to total flow capability.  The throttle body runner looks like an inverted "T"at the rear, so I would put the turning vane behind the upper vertical component of the runner "T" formation (left to right with TB in the center) that does not extend down to the larger open "T" cross section.  This allows the vane to turn the vertical component of the "T" air flow into the vane to feed the near runner entrances and lets the lower portion of the "T" to feed the bottom of all the runner entrances.  Just food for thought and experimentation.
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Tom 88 vert 5spd 3:73 Crower 15511 cam @ 110, 70mm TB, SMII, GT40P wManley race valves Isky Springs and Ti locks/keepers, Mac 1.625 shorties, dumpoed Flowmasters.  www.fastlanecars.com     http://tmossporting.0catch.com/
rob342
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« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2015, 12:44:39 pm »

if i'm understanding correctly, you mean something more like this?
-pardon the fit/finish of my hand bent .040 aluminum prototype Grin







any suggestions for a starting point. taller/shorter, wider, etc?

maybe cut the outer edges down a bit so i don't screw up the wide part of the intakes 'T' from feeding the other 6 runners? something like this, but not so extreme. sat 1/2 of that.


i just want to get the shape how you imagine may work best. i assume picking your brain will get me to a much better starting point.

FYI just blowing in the TB hole i can feel air coming back and hitting my fingertips. a decent amount where i put the '1's, slightly less where i put '2's. i feel none on the outer ports.  this is with the back of the intake off, so what i feel is definitely caused by the turning vane.
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white 92GT, with a black interior, pony rims, 5 speed with a 3.73 gear. came with a gear, exhaust, and a powerdyne. nice little cruiser, i didn't change much yet.

have tw170's, systemax II, 75mm accufab, anderson n41, t5z, ford racing 23lb billet flywheel, and a quarterhorse sitting here. cam may change
tmoss
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« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2015, 01:26:19 pm »

I would start with the first one, in the second you might be loosing vane turning ability.  I suggest a run without it, then a run with it.  If you had 2 covers that would be an easy way to make changes at the track.

From there I would maybe reduce the depth toward the back cover of the outer tail vanes (not center) to see if you loose or gain on the track.

If the vane is too deep and does to good a job, it may affect flow to other runners.  You want just enough tail vane depth to aid the closer runners without hurting the rest - another reason I said to only do a partial vane as you have done.
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Tom 88 vert 5spd 3:73 Crower 15511 cam @ 110, 70mm TB, SMII, GT40P wManley race valves Isky Springs and Ti locks/keepers, Mac 1.625 shorties, dumpoed Flowmasters.  www.fastlanecars.com     http://tmossporting.0catch.com/
tmoss
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« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2015, 01:37:45 pm »

I also recommend you take the time to open the rear of the TB runner like this - and round/soften the edges

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Tom 88 vert 5spd 3:73 Crower 15511 cam @ 110, 70mm TB, SMII, GT40P wManley race valves Isky Springs and Ti locks/keepers, Mac 1.625 shorties, dumpoed Flowmasters.  www.fastlanecars.com     http://tmossporting.0catch.com/
thunderjet302
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« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2015, 03:14:51 pm »

Your location says Chicago. If you're near forest park you can stop by my shop and I'll give you some 080 aluminum to mess around with.

I haven't had a chance to do anything car related as I've been working 7:30am to 10pm but this is still something I'll be testing asap.   right now i need to get my ass in the yard and start mowing. this is the first time ive been home when it was light out in two weeks. if my loud car didnt serve as an alarm clock for my neighbors every morning, they'd probably think i was dead


I thought about enlarging the bottom of the T shaped port right into the EGR area and eliminating the top part of the port all together. something with a nice curve, respectful of the intended airflow path. plus with a small turning vane.  any thoughts on something like this?

picture tha middle shaded thing an angled piece of 080 aluminum with a gentle bend where needed and the yellow lines as a turning vane that stands 2" high and only extends 1.5" forward, like where Tom drew(I couldnt draw it)

I'm about 20 minutes south of Forest Park. You seem to have a handle on this. I still have to run my car with the intake upgrade before I try this out. If you end up running the mod before I do I would be glad to copy what you have done Wink
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1988 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp Magnum 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Edelbrock 70mm TB, 80mm PMAS slot MAF, 30lb injectors, FMS stainless shorties, 2.5" exhaust, AOD with 2800 PI converter, 8.8 with 3.73 gears, 31 spline Traction-Lok, 31 spline Moser axles, subframes.
2011 Focus SE, 2012 Mustang 3.7, 2017 Honda Accord EX-L V6
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