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Author Topic: To all SBFTECH members: Please read.  (Read 182017 times)
mighty mouse
"Prom King Mista Nathan Moonen"
Big Block
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Posts: 12781

Location: Decorah, Iowa
I'll be the Judge of that

« on: June 18, 2010, 11:33:09 am »

SBFTECH members:

There are those of you out there that have recently called into question our management staff for a multitude of reasons.  But most "questions" have stemmed for a recent outcry of distrust and claims of fraud from our once most prominent member, Jay Allen.

For years we sang his praises.  We defended him and his teaching whenever and wherever we were called to do so.  Then, suddenly, a few of you began to question his dealings.  There has been a lot of drama here since.  We, as a TEAM of moderators, have taken great care to listen to your outcries.  But instead of jumping to conclusions against a man that is physically and mentally unable to defend himself, we took to internet to see if these claims and ramblings had merit.

Well guess what.

They DON'T!

See the following:

Problem #1:

1. The setup configured by RED5.0/Shaun Delaney described here, encounters a major catastrophic failure as described here.

2. During the discussion in which he shares his misfortune and tries to get feedback to help ID what was the root cause or causes of the failure snafu, a lot of things start to happen. Specifically:

  • Finger pointing due to the use of inline pistons with TW heads.
  • Speculations regarding customer service with parts, although unknown to the vendor until the mishap, are tried to be pushed elegantly and PC-like to the center stage.  Dissapointed Persons involved? k062693w here and by wildcobrar here, here, and here.
  • So..... a 408w with PtV problems is continued to be pushed as a possible cause after:

    • Owner states PtV was checked and remembered results are posted.
    • Dyno pull session takes place with a mishap with rocker studs.
    • Heads removal to correct a rocker studs failure as described here. (Wouldn't any PtV issues be noticeable at this point?.... please, think about it).
    • This setup endured multiple sessions at a dyno + different rides at the track in Sept. 13, '09 when the best ET of 10.29 ET @130 MPH was achieved. Sept. 27, '09 with 10.417 ET 130.43 MPH (single pass), and a few outings on the street prior to the engine mishap. Now think..... wouldn't a PtV issue as shown in the pics, have shown already with its typical symptoms?  Wonder, Ponder
  • The root cause of the mishap is then ID'ed as an excessive total advance of ~50°+ due to a miscalculation or misunderstanding with the distributor advance mechanism.
  • IOW..... the damage shown was a result, not a cause of a PtV issue. Otherwise, if that 408 ran low 10's with valves hitting.... it was a high-9 second little N/A monster in reality.
  • So... why is pushing the PtV possibility onus on the parts provider and not the assembler following a blueprinting procedure, continues to be considered as a possibility for the failure by some like wildcobrar here? Again, the responsibility to verify correct parts are used is on the installer, regardless if the shipper made a mistake. That is Engine 101.... no, Common Sense 001 for everything in life.

Problem #2:

1. Jay Allen has been going through a very difficult time due to a serious... again, SERIOUS condition that involves a tumor in the pituitary gland.

2. The condition above, aside serious, is a limitation to his daily business chores including loss of sight, depression, excruciating headaches, mind alertness and memory loss.

3. If you think (as many have ridiculously expressed based on their selective ignorance (aka stupidity)) such a condition in the cranial cavity, near the optic nerves, behind the sinuses, in such an important body gland, is something not serious....... do a search, study, ask; but quit reducing such a serious condition to the level of the flu, due to conveniently selected ignorance and your pettiness.

4. If you also think that condition is something that can diagnosed and corrected as easy like a misfire in an engine again, read #3 above. Dissapointed

5. By the same token, speculating that such a condition is a product of hearsay and/or pseudo business practices not in favor of the customer base, like this one, adds to the ignorant defamatory speculations, taking advantage of his inability to set the record straight due to his illness, and really leaves a lot to be desired. Again read #3, or better yet, if you're also that lazy to educate yourself a little bit on the subject to be able to understand the situation a little better, check this link or this one.

6. NOW..... if a lot of people enjoy bringing up shady shitty speculations (the new triple-S) about a person/business or friend, taking advantage of the fact that a specific condition caused by an illness. If such a condition will not allow him from explaining the selective ignorance of others. If such group of people expect nobody will stand up and support that person from the immorality and pettiness such a shitty practice is, you are wrong.

7. AGAIN.... if you have a problem dealing with another group of people that would do the same thing if you were going through a health issue affecting your performance as a business, person...... and enjoy labeling and name calling them (as some criticize yet practice while complaining about it) for doing such; you need to take a class in humanity. Or better yet....... What I meant to say was exactly what is contained in this extract from a quote:

I gave my word I would help a person that had a hard time to stand up on their own.

If this is such a bad thing, than I would hate to see humanity in the future if everyone were to turn a blind eye and not help a fellow friend when they were in need. I gave my word and I kept my word.

So I should be judged or called out for this?

I say not

8. NOW..... what is the problem with people that practice EXACTLY what you preach? Why slander and insult others that do exactly what you preach? Why use, promote and/or enjoy terms like "nuthuggers, cheerleaders, rabid nazis, boy love toys, egocentric, kool-aid drinker, etc"? And yes.... we have a "blue light special" on proven and documented hypocrite Bullshit Flag double-talk and if you act now, we'll throw in a pair of a "ball washer decal" and a "Green bumbersticker with a cam" and the new "Captain Amazing or Rectum Ranger" action figure, your choice. IOW.... I would hate to see humanity in the future if everyone were to continue contradicting their values depending on the audience they play for.  Dissapointed

Problem #3:

In addition to the above, seems like some persons have made the most of it and used it to their own benefit. To the point in which many continue to complain about things, while they practice them complaining. And how is that called?   ... hypocrisy! Examples? Proof?..... as we say here, no misinformation please....... and following the old school golden rule to call things like they are, with proof and examples, here it goes:

  • People that do not pay advertising fees here, using the site to advertise products in disloyal competition against sponsors here (you know, the ones that pay for the bandwidth we all use). Like wildcobrar here. Advertising as a seller/distributor for Pro Systems carburetors, even though CI is a Pro Systems carburetor dealer, and a sponsor here.
  • More unauthorized free advertising by wildcobrar here. Isn't that stepping over the forum owner and sponsors toes? How is a business that advertises for free, w/out the owners of the media knowing called?  Hmmmmm You can call it help, you can call it fun, you can call it assisting others.... it is still known as?........ .... SPAM.
  • Gents and Ladies.... one thing we encourage and foster here is openness and honest talk. By the same token, we are only human (last time I checked) and even though there are rules, we also understand normal emotions and prejudiced thoughts are a reality. Reason why you will see that some times a specific rule might be overlooked/bypassed. However, that does not mean we will sit idle after all the bullshit, speculations, slander, insults and attacks SBFTech and its membership have been subjected to. With the obvious intention and agenda to try to build upon its success.
  • Another thing we try to foster and encourage here in this Quote-Unquote "age of the internet".... is plain and simple old school HONESTY. Unfortunately, there are many who play the game under different rules, a foul call here is a charging call elsewhere.... IOW, double-talk crap. I will not use the names here but , if any of the quoted/inferred parties call it a lie..... it will be exposed. And YES..... the File>Save Page As... browser option does work great.

    • If you say that dealings with a supplier trying to solve an inquiry, doubt, claim, charge, etc needs to be kept private until a resolution or impasse is reached....... why would you make your case public at selected sites, and not at the site, with the people that can help you solve it?
    • If you criticize name calling here, why do you promote it elsewhere?
    • If you foster solving issues directly, why do you evade their solution?
    • If you criticize and abhor double-talk, why do you practice it?
    • If you do not have all the facts and information of a specific case/problem, why do you have to post an opinion in favor or against any of the parties involved based on hearsay/speculations?
    • If you want help in trying to figure something out, why don't you answer the damn phone?
    • If you really want to help anybody, why would you limit the flow of information towards the mediocre, outdated and LESS budget oriented type? (ie. alphabet cams, E7 heads, etc)

Problem #4:
Fucking MISCONCEPTIONS about SBFTECH! This is a no Bullshit Flag forum, by the same token, it is a site that allows the old school concepts and rules to prevail. You have a problem if some normal daily terminology is used? Wake up!.... this is real life. Again, some "MUST READ" topics are:

1. If you have a question...... post it!

2. If you have an experience...... post it!

3. If you have a disagreement in a thread or post about a topic...... post it!

4. If you have a tech tip or better way to do something...... post it!

5. If you have a tech write-up or procedure...... post it!

NOW.... the only things that are required here are very simple, clear and logical, and we'll use examples on specific topics to try to make it easier to understand:

  • Do not use hearsay or quotes from third party sources to prove a point exclusively. You should be able to explain why setting the TPS to .999 vdc is not a myth.
  • Do not use titles or academic preparation as an argumentative clause. You should be able to explain why port velocity is the one and only thing important regarding ports flow, even if you're a tinkerer.
  • Do not exclusively use magazine articles as a reference source for a point. We all know the bias advertising and marketing interests create. Use your interpretation validated with experience where possible.
  • If you think 185+cc heads are "too big" for a 302, enlighten us with a good explanation and discussion + examples.
  • If a short runner intake is only usable above 4000 RPM, please show us why.
  • If an OTS camshaft is your poison, use the Grassroots section.
  • If GT40 or 351w or ported E7 heads is your poison, use the Grassroots section.
  • If you have a problem logging in or with the forum software, post it in the section for that.
  • If you read a post that is a problem or breaking any of the forum rules, use the button and report it.

Bottom Line:

If you have any problem with the site, sponsors, membership here.......... it is HERE where you'll get the answers and solutions. Otherwise, either a solution is not really an interest, you have a personal agenda, or you simply want to practice a little slander anywhere else. Is that so difficult to understand and internalize?  Unh?

Since we at SBFTech.com pride ourselves in not posting stuff w/out having exhausted all the correct information and facts, and due to the seriousness of the problems and the persons involved; ALL the statements written above DO have ALL the data documented if required for further examination. So cut the crap and lets continue talking, working, discussing our Ford vice again...... O-fucking-K?

« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 08:19:00 pm by Joel5.0 » Logged

1986 Mustang GT Convertible
Suspension and Differential by Team Z Motorsports
9.5 Deck Forged Stroker Shortblock by FordStrokers
Trick Flow High Ports and Super Vic EFI intake by Duane Busch

I'd rather be a fool who is loyal to his friends than a POS that jumps ship to save face. We were wrong in the end, but nobody can ever call us disloyal. I can live with that.
mighty mouse
"Prom King Mista Nathan Moonen"
Big Block
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Posts: 12781

Location: Decorah, Iowa
I'll be the Judge of that

« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2010, 07:13:17 pm »



I spoke to Jay on the telephone today and we are expecting him to chime in the next few days.

1986 Mustang GT Convertible
Suspension and Differential by Team Z Motorsports
9.5 Deck Forged Stroker Shortblock by FordStrokers
Trick Flow High Ports and Super Vic EFI intake by Duane Busch

I'd rather be a fool who is loyal to his friends than a POS that jumps ship to save face. We were wrong in the end, but nobody can ever call us disloyal. I can live with that.
El Hombre
Big Block
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Posts: 22511

Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!

« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2010, 07:42:34 pm »

Since this is "read only" section, if you have anything to add, discuss, question, etc..... we do encourage you to start a thread in the Lounge. Thanx!


'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2

Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
Global Moderator
Big Block
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Posts: 11467

Location: Los Angeles

« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2010, 11:39:54 pm »

In hopes of shedding a little additional light on this situation for our members I will add to this.  Here is a post from Wildcobrar / Joe Delong addressing my concerns over him potentially benefiting monetarily from the stance he was taking with a site sponsor's customer:

My character is in Tact and I am a person of good down to earth Ethics.

You can say what ever you want Nate, but remember, sticks and stones are just waht they are. 

I work in Law Enforcement as well as having my own shop and at the day's end I can carry my head high knowing I have not wronged anyone, or duped anyone, or taken anyone's client because that is not my style. 

I hold myself accountable in everyway, thus I can sleep well at night, and not develop any illnesses that may develop due to the stress caused from business transactions that are shady to say the least.

Again, you calling me out and making false implications shows the true color of your nature for all to see.

Bam and Matt, thank you for being voices of reason, you are both truly great contributors here on this forum.   If ever I am down south, even though we have not met, Bam I will definately buy you a beer.

Nate, once again, you are most graciously welcome for the clarification.


Shortly after the above post from Joe Delong I received this PM from 351 windsor snake who has given me permission to share it and say who it came from (very much appreciated):

Nathan,I fear what you suspect about Joe is indead true.
After enquiring about a comment he made in a post about clevelands,here is what he PMed me.

Hi its me Joe.  I will help you out via E-mail.  wildcobrar@hotmail.com

I might get shit canned from here if I help you openly.


Followed by

Ok,I did not realize there was any problem.


There is no problem, but I am sure if we talk openly, someone will feel they are losing a sale.   Best keep it quiet nd there will never be a problem.  I can put you onto a Scat kit right from summit racing  balanced and ready to go.

In this exchange of PM's Joe clearly shows he is knowingly operating outside the rules of the board.  It also shows he knows his actions would get him banned.  Now why would "help" get him banned some might ask?  Help in itself (what this board is all about) is clearly not Joe's only intention.  Obviously Joe's help involved offering to sell parts as he clearly states by writing, "There is no problem, but I am sure if we talk openly, someone will feel they are losing a sale.", and this, "I can put you onto a Scat kit right from summit racing  balanced and ready to go."  This statement shows the true nature of Joe's behind the scenes practices and moral standard, "Best keep it quiet nd there will never be a problem."

Now I've been in a few speed shops during my day as a customer.  Many times another speed show owner is there hanging out talking about whatever.  If the other shop owner hanging out joins the conversation about what parts I need, it is always in regards to helping me find the correct parts at the shop we're sitting in as it should be.  The other owner has never done something like try to slip me a piece of paper without anybody seeing saying he can get me the part quicker or cheaper.  Yet, this is EXACTLY what Joe has done and been practicing here.  This is an issue of business ethics.  The same business ethics that Joe was thumping his chest over I might add.

Some time later I was approached by Joe to talk like gentlemen (I sincerely appreciate this) over the phone regarding some very serious concerns regarding CI.  In that conversation Joe assured me he could only do local sales due to the fact that his business (Mainstream Auto & Speed) didn't have a credit card machine and he no longer had a Pay Pal account.  I didn't want the conversation to go off on a tangent so I let it be.  But, we all know that a small business is more than happy to have customers send a money order or cashier's check for parts to be shipped anywhere UPS or Fed Ex delivers.  Most also realize a business can get a discount from Summit as an example and sell their parts for "Summit prices" while still turning a profit and never having to touch the product.  I felt that statement of Joe's was intentionally deceptive especially in light of the above PM I had previously been sent and posts he made like this one:  http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,22002.msg260199.html#msg260199 

Later in that conversation the issue of the above PM came up as I had already made Woody aware of it and Woody had apparently brought it up to Joe in a PM.  Joe asked who it was and at the time I did not feel it was right to give up the source.  Joe then mentioned a couple of names of members here asking if it came from them.  Neither name was 351 windsor snake.  He also asked if his PM was from 1.5 to 2 years ago.  These questions from Joe were very telling.  This obviously wasn't an isolated incident and had been going on for a least 1.5-2 years and up until Dec '09 according to what Joe had said and the PM 351 windsor snake shared with me.

When I told Joe the PM's were from Dec '09, Joe suggested that was after Woody claimed he would no longer be selling parts.  Just DIY kits, short blocks, long blocks, and complete engines.  Even if true that doesn't absolve Joe of wrong doing since as a business he needs Woody's permission to operate as such on this site.  However, in order to set the record straight Woody didn't make the announcement until Jan '010.  http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,23705.0.html  The PM's were from Dec '09.

At this point I would like to make it clear once again that this PM from 351 windsor snake was sent to me.  NOBODY can go through the member's PM's.  I'm sure there was some confusion to this as was shared with me by Windsordeath in a conversation we had.  Once I explained the origin of the PM he seemed relieved and I hope this clears up any others' concern.

This whole situation with Joe Delong has really bummed me out.  Unfortunately the information needs to be put out in public to inform the members here of the details behind this decision.  Sadly Joe sealed his own fate and left us with but one choice.

\'65 fastback pump gas 289, 4.56 gears, and faceplated T5.  11.123 at 122.4
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