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Author Topic: Head & Compression Questions on a 289??????  (Read 9906 times)
alnikem
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« on: January 20, 2015, 10:06:44 pm »

Hi, I have a 67 Cougar with a Toploader. I am just finishing the updating of the Suspension. It still has the 289 in it (C-Code) with Tri-Y's, a RPM Intake & a Eldy Carb. I am thinking of getting it rebuilt with a "Decent" set of heads with good compression & probably a Hydraulic Roller. This is all for fun streeting, I like curvy roads & a really responsive motor. I know I am silly for not going bigger cubes, but I think it sounds cool.

1) What heads should I be looking at? The TFS seems to come up & I was curious about the Profilers.

2) How do I get the compression into the right range for crisp performance?

Thanks, Tim
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alnikem
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« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2015, 10:16:11 pm »

I guess I should of said, I want a really strong running 289, something that someone would say "Is this a 289????". I don't mind spending decent money on the parts & machining.
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mighty mouse
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« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2015, 10:39:37 pm »

289s can run hard! It will take a custom cam though. I would be looking at a 205 TW head so headers are not a royal pain for you. I would run a super vic intake and a 1 3/4 header. I am assuming someone makes a pop up piston, otherwise you are looking at angle milling heads and an intake to get good compression out of one.
I would strive for the 10:1 range.

289nate on here built a pretty cool little 289. Check out his build on here.
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1986 Mustang GT Convertible
Suspension and Differential by Team Z Motorsports
9.5 Deck Forged Stroker Shortblock by FordStrokers
Trick Flow High Ports and Super Vic EFI intake by Duane Busch

I'd rather be a fool who is loyal to his friends than a POS that jumps ship to save face. We were wrong in the end, but nobody can ever call us disloyal. I can live with that.
289nate
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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2015, 12:50:31 am »

What rear gear are you willing to run and what rpm are you comfortable with?  Will this be a street only car or will it see the track with any frequency?
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\'65 fastback pump gas 289, 4.56 gears, and faceplated T5.  11.123 at 122.4
alnikem
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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2015, 07:44:59 am »

What rear gear are you willing to run and what rpm are you comfortable with?  Will this be a street only car or will it see the track with any frequency?

Thanks for the reply. I might end up going to a five speed. But, to answer your question, I would base it on a 3.70 rear, of course, if I end up with a five speed it will be a little deeper. Yes, mainly street, I do a little autocrossing, but this would be just a novelty once a year.
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alnikem
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2015, 07:54:14 am »

Are the big, i.e. 205's heads the way to go? I know most would recommend 170's. Are there caveats to using the big heads on a small displacement, such as steep gears? I am all in using a custom cam. Thanks, guys.
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mighty mouse
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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2015, 08:57:08 am »

The bigger the head and intake the less cam you need. Your engine will make more column avg hp and to and be way more efficient.  Think modern day GM LS engines (which many would argue are updated small Fords).
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1986 Mustang GT Convertible
Suspension and Differential by Team Z Motorsports
9.5 Deck Forged Stroker Shortblock by FordStrokers
Trick Flow High Ports and Super Vic EFI intake by Duane Busch

I'd rather be a fool who is loyal to his friends than a POS that jumps ship to save face. We were wrong in the end, but nobody can ever call us disloyal. I can live with that.
CDW6212R
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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2015, 12:52:09 pm »

The bigger the head and intake the less cam you need. Your engine will make more column avg hp and to and be way more efficient.  Think modern day GM LS engines (which many would argue are updated small Fords).

Well said, it works great when the combination is matched right, and that custom cam is the biggest piece to make it work.
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Don

1991 Mark VII LSC Special Edition, soon to be OBDII and 4R70W, then GTC body kit and 347.
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mighty mouse
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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2015, 01:07:00 pm »

I will also add that good power and drivability can be had with a smaller head...but I wouldn't choose anything smaller than a 170 Twisted wedge (which by the way cross section is much larger than a standard valve placement head), Canfield 195, AFR 185 or entry level High Port.
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1986 Mustang GT Convertible
Suspension and Differential by Team Z Motorsports
9.5 Deck Forged Stroker Shortblock by FordStrokers
Trick Flow High Ports and Super Vic EFI intake by Duane Busch

I'd rather be a fool who is loyal to his friends than a POS that jumps ship to save face. We were wrong in the end, but nobody can ever call us disloyal. I can live with that.
alnikem
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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2015, 04:33:29 pm »

Thanks guys! So, who is the SBF Cam Guru?
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Outlaw Bill
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« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2015, 08:24:21 pm »

AFR or TFS 185cc will provide good power and driveability with a mild camshaft. Any 205cc head will be overkill for the application and will complicate the camshaft selection.
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mighty mouse
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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2015, 09:05:00 pm »

Most fun combo I have ever put together...As far as drivability and a good all around power curve...coupled with fantastic gas mileage for a carbed V8... was a 306 with good rod bolts and a balance job. Thumper ported Canfield 195 heads. Stock HO cam with 1.7 rockers. Funnelweb intake and a 750 double pumper. 3620# car with me in it. 4.30 gears. Great on the street and would pull the front wheels at the strip.
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1986 Mustang GT Convertible
Suspension and Differential by Team Z Motorsports
9.5 Deck Forged Stroker Shortblock by FordStrokers
Trick Flow High Ports and Super Vic EFI intake by Duane Busch

I'd rather be a fool who is loyal to his friends than a POS that jumps ship to save face. We were wrong in the end, but nobody can ever call us disloyal. I can live with that.
Joel5.0
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2015, 09:19:02 am »

Take a look at something we discussed awhile ago:

The other day my ISP had a little problem and I decided to spend some time running some engine simulations on EA. I decided to run the following multiple variables to compare following a simple procedure...... keep the short block, exhaust and intake configuration the same and make the cylinder heads type/size and camshaft the variables. Specifically, the control SBF was:

FIXED VARIABLES:
  • Bore 4.00" x 3.00" stroke = 302 ci
  • Victor Jr. Single Plane type intake with 950 CFM Holley
  • LT headers 24" long 1.625" ID primaries into a 3" ID 15.6" long collector open
  • 1.7:1 rocker ratio intake/exhaust

EVALUATION VARIABLES:

CAMSHAFT:
  • LS7 based HRT profile
    210/230 @.050", 130.6/142.3 @.200" duration, .3294"/.3272" lobe lift, 120.5 LSA -1.5 ICL (BASELINE)
  • X-303
    224/224 @.050", 141.5/141.5 @.200" duration, .339"/.339" lobe lift, 112 LSA +0 ICL (dot-to-dot)
  • Custom TLSR
    226/245 @.050, 152.4/160.3 @.200" duration, .378"/.370" lobe lift, 112 LSA +2 ICL and .014"/.014" Lash

For those of you that focus on the valve events the following is their @.050" breakdown:

Int Open Int Close Exh Open Exh Close
LS7 Based -17 BTDC 47 ABDC 54 BBDC -4 ATDC
X-303 0 BTDC 44 ABDC 44 BBDC 0 ATDC
TLSR 3 BTDC 43 ABDC 56.5 BBDC 8.5 ATDC

HEADS:
  • Edelbrock Glidden Victor 15° CNC #61099, 228cc/94cc 56cc CC (BASELINE)
  • AFR165 Renegade CNC, 165cc/69cc 58cc CC
  • AFR185 Renegade CNC, 185cc/69cc 58cc CC
  • AFR205 Renegade CNC, 205cc/70cc 60cc CC
  • AFR225 Renegade CNC, 225cc/80cc 58cc CC
  • Canfield 192, 192cc/xxcc, 58cc CC
  • Edelbrock Victor Jr. #77169, 210cc/75cc 60cc CC
  • TFS TW 190 11R CNC, 190cc/66cc 56cc CC

All the above were simulated using the specs and flowbench tables supplied by their manufacturers. The attachments below are a Powerpoint presentation of the graphs in PDF and Powerpoint show format.

Setups were simulated from 3,000 - 7,000 RPM in 500 RPM increments (9 steps). The blue, red or purple shaded areas are the ones showing a gain of the setup under simulation over the Glidden heads/camshaft BASELINE for that particular run. The brown shaded areas are the ones showing a gain of the BASELINE over the setup being compared against.

<a href="http://sbftech.com/vids/mcmp_0.8.swf?fpFileURL=http%3A%2F%2Fvid55.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg124%2FJoel50_PR%2FTemporary%2FHeads_Comparo_zps99de6fb3.mp4&amp;fpPreviewImageURL=http://sbftech.com/vids/SBF_log1.JPG&amp;colorScheme=ff0000&amp;cpBackgroundColor=ffff00&amp;cpHidePanel=mouseout&amp;cpHideDelay=.5&amp;fpButtonSize=63x63" target="_blank">http://sbftech.com/vids/mcmp_0.8.swf?fpFileURL=http%3A%2F%2Fvid55.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg124%2FJoel50_PR%2FTemporary%2FHeads_Comparo_zps99de6fb3.mp4&amp;fpPreviewImageURL=http://sbftech.com/vids/SBF_log1.JPG&amp;colorScheme=ff0000&amp;cpBackgroundColor=ffff00&amp;cpHidePanel=mouseout&amp;cpHideDelay=.5&amp;fpButtonSize=63x63</a>

Or check the revised version in PDF format HERE. As soon as you hit the 10 posts count, you will be able to access the section where the topic was discussed at http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,36562.0.html
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
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prof7376
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2015, 08:14:46 am »

Hi, I have a 67 Cougar with a Toploader. I am just finishing the updating of the Suspension. It still has the 289 in it (C-Code) with Tri-Y's, a RPM Intake & a Eldy Carb. I am thinking of getting it rebuilt with a "Decent" set of heads with good compression & probably a Hydraulic Roller. This is all for fun streeting, I like curvy roads & a really responsive motor. I know I am silly for not going bigger cubes, but I think it sounds cool.

1) What heads should I be looking at? The TFS seems to come up & I was curious about the Profilers.

2) How do I get the compression into the right range for crisp performance?

Thanks, Tim

I know this is an old post but, I'll give my two cents from my experience.

I am pretty happy with my combo for the street (not ideal for drags)
.030 289
TRW Domes
Stock Rods ARP bolts
1/2" head studs
AFR 185s
Comp 282S solid flat tappet 236 @.050, .528", 110  (if I did it all over, I would go custom)
Weiand X-cellerator
Quick Fuel 600 Mech
Accufab 1.75x3 midlength.

I run an ATI balancer and Aluminum flywheel.  I love how snappy and responsive it is.

I can cruise in town down to 1400 rpm with no grumpiness.  Pulls good to about 6800.  Pretty reasonable on gas if I stay out of it.
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Hold 'er to the floor and hope for the best

1984 Frankenstien. (Sold)
1994 GT Convert.  65 .030 289, AFR 185s, Comp SFT, Weiand X-cellerator, QFT 600 HR, Accufab 1.75 Midlength, 5 spd 3.73.  Cruiser!!
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