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Author Topic: EEC-IV woes (unable to pull codes)  (Read 13155 times)
HBJones65
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Location: Phoenix AZ

« on: December 13, 2014, 04:02:21 pm »

I have a 1988 Mustang 5.0L coupe (converted to MAF 14+ year ago) and running a modest 347 n/a since 2009.  

My EEC-IV will not throw codes.  I have some minor drivability issues and exhaust smells rich; I do not think I will be able to pass emission testing at end of month. As you probably know, on these '88s you have to jumper the STI to the SIG RTN and also add a volt meter (or test bulb) between the + battery terminal and the EEC-IV test harness STO/MIL..no confusion there, normally can do this with no problem.

My test light never goes off (should normally be off with the key off, right) and the EEV-IV never goes into test mode when triggered by the STI. I tested for continuity between the EEC-IV test connector and the PCM for STI, STO, and SIG RTN; all show continuity. I checked voltage on the STI connector and found about .25V with key-off and 5V with KOEO. I know the STI is supposed to cause the computer to ground to zero to start the test process, so I also tried forcing it ground by back-probing the STI lead with a jumper wire between the negative terminal and my voltmeter, but it only drops to 3.7V and still does not trigger the EEC-IV into test mode.  

I think I am in over my head.  Is this a PCM issue or a wire/short problem.  Can someone talk me through how to go about tracing the wire/short...no clue where to begin aside from what I tried above.

I think I posted this in the wrong sub-folder; feel free to move it where it belongs.  Sorry.

Thanks for any advice,

Harold
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'88 Mustang SSP coupe
(formerly Incon twin-turbo'd, but now a SBF 347 stroker)
Joel5.0
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2014, 07:38:53 pm »

Use the test light connected between the battery (+) terminal and STO terminal procedure  + a jumper to a ground (battery (-) terminal works fine) of the STI terminal. LUK the results.....

BTW..... the test light connected between the battery (+) and STO... will stay on even with the key in IGN OFF in your application.
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
HBJones65
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Location: Phoenix AZ

« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2014, 06:47:02 pm »

Joel,

Thanks for the reply and correction; with the test light connected between the battery (+) and STO, the test-light definitely stays on even with my IGN off.  I will stop worrying about that.  Smiley

I did exactly as you coached me.  Yesterday, I was trying to use my analog volt meter and cheapo code scanner, but I followed your instructions exactly today using my high impedance test light (LED bulb version).

Results follow:

KOEO (hard faults):  15, 34
KOEO (memory codes): 34

KOER:  94, 44, 34

I believe I am supposed to start with the first code (15) and focus on that one first, right?  Bad PCM???

In addition to the above, should I be concerned that my STI is not grounding?  Recall, yesterday, I was able to measure 5V on the STI with key off and a skewed amount (about 3.67) with KOEO.  Maybe that is related to the codes I captured above???

If it matters any, I know code 94 is related to "air system inoperative".  I have all of my factory smog equipment EXCEPT there is no air going to the back of my cylinder heads.  These Canfield heads have no provision for that connection, so my air pump vents to the air when it is supposed to be going to the back of the heads...only at warm-up, right.  I need the smog equipment to meet fairly stringent Phoenix-metro emission testing.  

Thanks again for any help.  I truly appreciate your help.

v/r,
Harold Jones
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'88 Mustang SSP coupe
(formerly Incon twin-turbo'd, but now a SBF 347 stroker)
Joel5.0
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Big Block
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Posts: 22510


Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2014, 07:39:18 pm »

If you disconnected the battery to clear codes, code 15 will show in the first codes scan. Clear it by starting a KOEO and as soon as the codes start to flash..... disconnect the STI ground jumper. Turn key off, reset STI jumper and rerun a KOEO self test.Codes 44 and 94 KOER = nothing to worry about. Code 34 = EGR Valve Position/Pressure Feedback EGR Voltage Above Closed Limit (O,R). Just make sure the EGR valve is not stuck partially open causing the EVP to read higher. LUK
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
HBJones65
6 Banger
**
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Posts: 71


Location: Phoenix AZ

« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2014, 08:14:49 pm »

Hey Joel,

I tried as you mentioned above to clear KOEO 15, by "starting a KOEO and as soon as the codes start to flash..... disconnect the STI ground jumper. Turn key off, reset STI jumper and rerun a KOEO self test"to no avail.  I tried it 3x; still getting Code 15.  Any ideas?

Also still getting KOEO 34, but figure to keep chasing this Code 15 first.

v/r,
Harold
Logged

'88 Mustang SSP coupe
(formerly Incon twin-turbo'd, but now a SBF 347 stroker)
Joel5.0
El Hombre
Administrator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 22510


Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2014, 08:37:05 pm »

Do you have a chip installed in the ECM?
Logged

ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
HBJones65
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 71


Location: Phoenix AZ

« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2014, 11:51:53 pm »

Yes.  I probably should have mentioned that, ehhhh??? Whistling  Sorry, Joel.  I didn't even think about that maybe causing it to throw a KOEO 15.  Will a chip cause it to throw that code at KOEO?  If so, I have to make a note of that for "next time".

On a positive note, I borrowed the Charles Probst book "Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control"...a ton of good information and a bit over-whelming.  I spent the last hour chasing the 34 code (recall, both KOEO (hard fault) and (memory code) as well as KOER).  I used his chapter on electrical tests of components and tested both the EVR (EGR Vacuum Regulator) and the EVP (EGR Valve Position Sensors).  The EVR tested out just fine (58 ohms and 12.1 V), but the EVP failed the resistance test.  At 0" mercury vacuum, it read 3150 ohms.  At 10" mercury vacuum, it read 369 ohms.  According to Probst, it should be 5500 ohms to 100 ohms.  Mine sensor is bad, right?  Tomorrow, I will go try to locate one at a parts store.

On one last positive note, I have been experiencing a weird, unpredictable bucking since the Mustangs Across America Cruise (just one very brief cut-out with absolutely no pattern).  While verifying my grounds, I figured out that I had a hot wire near the ECM that may have been arching to my firewall now and then.  I only found it by accident when I caused a spark, while re-installing the ECM relay to the door jamb.  Yikes.  Anyway, I fixed that and maybe my weird bucking will go away. 

Can it be this easy?  I just might get her through emissions this week and take her to track on Friday...fingers crossed.

v/r,
Harold
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'88 Mustang SSP coupe
(formerly Incon twin-turbo'd, but now a SBF 347 stroker)
Joel5.0
El Hombre
Administrator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 22510


Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2014, 07:59:55 am »

The EGR/EVP failure codes troubleshooting procedure is at http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,30189.0.html ..... all you have to do in order to check if the EVP is bad is disconnect the sensor, rerun a KOEO and confirm code 34 turns into a code 31 On Demand. If it does, EVP sensor is kaput.

In reality, the ECM logic will simply turn the EGR function off and not cause any driveability issues unless of course, code 34 is caused by the EGR valve not seating due to exhaust deposits buildup. LUK
Logged

ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
HBJones65
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 71


Location: Phoenix AZ

« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2014, 08:06:09 pm »

Hi, Joel.

Thanks again for your patient help.  I did as you suggested and pulled KOEO on-demand codes with the EVP sensor unplugged.  Indeed, I got Code 15 (due to my aftermarket chip) and Code 31.  Sounds like the EVP is bad, then.

I'm sure prices are higher in Puerto Rico, but get this.  I called the Ford dealer; he told me they could get me one by the end of the day for $147 + tax.  I know NAPA shows one on their website (CRB-219023)...a gray-one...for $42 that is supposed to be for my particular car.  Any thoughts?  That is a big difference in price. 

Thanks again,
Harold
Logged

'88 Mustang SSP coupe
(formerly Incon twin-turbo'd, but now a SBF 347 stroker)
Joel5.0
El Hombre
Administrator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 22510


Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2014, 09:03:27 pm »

Check the BWD EGR102P part at Pep Boys or Advance Auto.... they usually go for $31.99 in my neck of the woods and it's the white one what you need.

http://www.pepboys.com/product/details/8488974/00907/parts/fuel_emission_systems/sensors


Logged

ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
HBJones65
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 71


Location: Phoenix AZ

« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2014, 11:53:57 pm »

Thanks, Joel.  I'll go track one of those down tomorrow and report back.

-Harold
Logged

'88 Mustang SSP coupe
(formerly Incon twin-turbo'd, but now a SBF 347 stroker)
HBJones65
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 71


Location: Phoenix AZ

« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2014, 11:12:11 am »

Sure enough, the new EVP sensor cleared up the Code 34 (hard and memory faults).  I'm glad I didn't pop for the ubber-expensive Ford/Motorcraft version.  After about 30-miles, I re-ran codes:

KOEO (hard fault):  15 (probably because of my aftermarket chip) and 67
KOEO (memory fault):  11
Running:  94, 44

It took me a little longer than planned with work and family, but she is sorted out again. While I had her out of commission, I had to replace my rear seal on my transmission, new U-Joints, replaced CANP solenoid, and found a short.  I also installed my new Crane Hi-6 inside my passenger compartment (old Accel 300+ died under the hood).   I hope to get her through emission testing tomorrow. 

Thanks again, Joel5.0.

-Harold
Logged

'88 Mustang SSP coupe
(formerly Incon twin-turbo'd, but now a SBF 347 stroker)
Joel5.0
El Hombre
Administrator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 22510


Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2014, 01:09:49 pm »

  .... code 15 is due to the chip and code 67 was due to running the KOEO in gear.... IOW.... you're all set. 
Logged

ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
HBJones65
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 71


Location: Phoenix AZ

« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2015, 07:33:32 pm »

Emission testing done...passed on first try. 

Car feels and drives awesome; like Beast-mode is on all the time.

Thanks again for your help, Joel 5.0.

-Harold
 
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'88 Mustang SSP coupe
(formerly Incon twin-turbo'd, but now a SBF 347 stroker)
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