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Author Topic: What size engine works best with these heads?  (Read 109715 times)
ERStettin
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« on: December 04, 2014, 12:16:02 am »

Ok, I am looking hard at these CHI 3V CNC 220 heads for my next engine build and was wondering what size engine would work best with these heads while considering the following:

1.  No more than 11 to 1 compression (It MUST run on pump gas)
2.  Hydraulic roller cam
3.  Street/Strip engine that is 80% street and 20% strip
4.  Do not want to have to spin it more than 7,000 rpm.
5.  Must be low maintenance

Thanks to all who reply.

http://www.chiheads.com.au/shop/3v/3v-cnc-ported-ford-cleveland/
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347HO
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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2014, 02:56:37 am »

IMO...  none, or any.
I say that because for what you want from the cubic inch, won't take advantage of those heads, nor the cost/return value.
Must be a "bling" thing which I don't understand...
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... it was REALLY revving at like 4K...
If I saw that thing in my rear view Im pulling over to let you by, I be scared of that thing Huh? i dont know wich car is uglier ur or mine?
Javier
Ugly?  Easy now -- that's my baby and it's got lots of unique character!  When I drop that built 445" stroker in it you won't have any time to "pull over to let me pass" because I'll have already blown past you when you figure out what the hell was that loud noise behind you . . .  
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2014, 09:04:42 am »

I would say a 420 to 440 9.5 deck stroker
Chi intake or equivalent intake manifold
A 950 cfm carb
.650 lift cam and kit
5/16" stem Ti. intake valves with Crn coating on valve head  and SS exhaust
3 step headers of 2"x2 1/8"x2 1/4"x3 1/2" collector
Dart Sportsman block w/4 bolt on 3 center mains after reworking oiling system like I did on our 412
Melling Select HV oil pump which is 45/50# pressure on our 412
T&D shaft rockers.
Cam with duration 245/250*@.050 280* advertised intake (something adequate for Cubes

I have a CI tlsr 235/245 .650 w/1.7 T&D rockers, 235cc World heads w/flowthrough of 290/300 cfm right now (more work to do) and probably 10.5 compression.  SV intake and either an 800 or 950 Holley carb which I haven't assembled yet!
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ERStettin
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2014, 10:07:21 am »

IMO...  none, or any.
I say that because for what you want from the cubic inch, won't take advantage of those heads, nor the cost/return value.
Must be a "bling" thing which I don't understand...

Not sure what you are talking about with the bling comment or what you don't understand, but you are wrong.  I am buying them because they work and I want the most HP and Torque out of my combination as possible with the limitations given.  For instance, I had a 363 that was 10.5 to 1, AFR 225 heads, Edelbrock Victor EFI and some other all motor stuff that ran 10.74@128 and a car weighing 3317 with me in it.  I drove it to the track, trailered a lot of trailered cars, then drove home with the ac and cruise control on.  You CAN have the best of both worlds.  Many are doing it.  I am going to do it again, just bigger this time.  It will be a 9 second driver on all motor if everything works out the way I am planning.

I would say a 427 or bigger would definitely fit the bill but wanted to get some insight from those that might have done this already.   www.cnc-motorsports.com   Has MANY CHI 3V CNC 220 heads running in the 600+ HP range and higher.  It can be done.  Nothing bling about it really.  Just matching good parts that work.
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ERStettin
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2014, 10:10:16 am »

I would say a 420 to 440 9.5 deck stroker
Chi intake or equivalent intake manifold
A 950 cfm carb
.650 lift cam and kit
5/16" stem Ti. intake valves with Crn coating on valve head  and SS exhaust
3 step headers of 2"x2 1/8"x2 1/4"x3 1/2" collector
Dart Sportsman block w/4 bolt on 3 center mains after reworking oiling system like I did on our 412
Melling Select HV oil pump which is 45/50# pressure on our 412
T&D shaft rockers.
Cam with duration 245/250*@.050 280* advertised intake (something adequate for Cubes

I have a CI tlsr 235/245 .650 w/1.7 T&D rockers, 235cc World heads w/flowthrough of 290/300 cfm right now (more work to do) and probably 10.5 compression.  SV intake and either an 800 or 950 Holley carb which I haven't assembled yet!

I have actually been thinking of a 438 with these so we are not far off.  I was definitely going to use the CHI 3V intake as well.  Thanks to both of you for your replys.
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347HO
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2014, 01:17:11 pm »

I've been 9 seconds a very long time ago and I'll have to assume performance technology must have blown past me when a Hydraulic cam and any cubic inch runs that under 7000rpm and is a true street car setup.

Some of my peers ran fogger setups and did it with way less cylinder head I will admit, however you didn't mention any type of "adder"

IMO, I see super nice heads on an underachieving lower half, but again I assume you're about to prove me wrong and post up some 9 second video.
And to be clear...  to me a "9 second street car" is 9.7 seconds or quicker.

I don't drag race anymore so I really don't know what people are building these days to go 9 seconds...  I am out of my element.
I do remember getting under 10 seconds was a huge bitch N/A and no adder.

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... it was REALLY revving at like 4K...
If I saw that thing in my rear view Im pulling over to let you by, I be scared of that thing Huh? i dont know wich car is uglier ur or mine?
Javier
Ugly?  Easy now -- that's my baby and it's got lots of unique character!  When I drop that built 445" stroker in it you won't have any time to "pull over to let me pass" because I'll have already blown past you when you figure out what the hell was that loud noise behind you . . .  
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2014, 09:58:29 pm »

This evening I talked to a friend who went on the Hot Rod Power Tour with his 1964 Chevy Malibu with a stroked BBC 496 cubes.  Cam is a sr 272*/282* @.050 .715/.7?? lift with 1.7 CompCams best stud rockers and a stud girdle.  Lash never changed at all over 100's of miles of driving!  He looked at his bearings after 3 or 4 years and bearing were Not Replaced!  Leakdown is less than 10%.  Compression is 10.8 and cranking compression is 160# Mikes is 210# and 12.?? to 1 and both are running 91 octane pump gas.

New cam will be same lift/duration except with 106* LSA instead of longer/wider LSA.

Another friend of ours is Mike Crow used to tour with a red Cuda and this year a white Duster.  He blew up his 429 SBM totally at HPT this year and now has a Large 460 ci SBM he has/is putting together.  I will ask him sometime what his cam specs are.  I think he is going with a 1100 Dom.
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ERStettin
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2014, 12:41:38 am »

I've been 9 seconds a very long time ago and I'll have to assume performance technology must have blown past me when a Hydraulic cam and any cubic inch runs that under 7000rpm and is a true street car setup.

Some of my peers ran fogger setups and did it with way less cylinder head I will admit, however you didn't mention any type of "adder"

IMO, I see super nice heads on an underachieving lower half, but again I assume you're about to prove me wrong and post up some 9 second video.
And to be clear...  to me a "9 second street car" is 9.7 seconds or quicker.

I don't drag race anymore so I really don't know what people are building these days to go 9 seconds...  I am out of my element.
I do remember getting under 10 seconds was a huge bitch N/A and no adder.



Yes sir, technology has definitely improved for us in the SBF world.  It is VERY common for 331, 347 and 363's to run 10's as legit street cars that are driven to the track and back, ac, cruise, power locks, the works.  These are naturally aspirated as well.  In fact, I have two friends on the Corral with 363 builds that are running in the 9's.  They drive their cars to and from the track....lol.  The days of having to trailer a 11 second car to the track are long gone. The short block is definitely less than it could be but considering it will be a daily driver and running on pump gas, it does very well for what it is.  Up the compression and put in a solid roller and lose all that streetability for better track times and a trailer, just doesn't make sense to me. 

9.7 or better....lol.  That should be achievable with this motor if done right.  That is about 650 hp or so.  To me, a 9.99 is running 9's.  Not sure what else it could be.....unless you wanted to say it was an 8?  Wink
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ERStettin
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2014, 12:47:11 am »

This evening I talked to a friend who went on the Hot Rod Power Tour with his 1964 Chevy Malibu with a stroked BBC 496 cubes.  Cam is a sr 272*/282* @.050 .715/.7?? lift with 1.7 CompCams best stud rockers and a stud girdle.  Lash never changed at all over 100's of miles of driving!  He looked at his bearings after 3 or 4 years and bearing were Not Replaced!  Leakdown is less than 10%.  Compression is 10.8 and cranking compression is 160# Mikes is 210# and 12.?? to 1 and both are running 91 octane pump gas.

New cam will be same lift/duration except with 106* LSA instead of longer/wider LSA.

Another friend of ours is Mike Crow used to tour with a red Cuda and this year a white Duster.  He blew up his 429 SBM totally at HPT this year and now has a Large 460 ci SBM he has/is putting together.  I will ask him sometime what his cam specs are.  I think he is going with a 1100 Dom.

Nice, I have a friend on the Corral that goes by DocsNotch that is running a 427 with High Ports in the 9.7 range, EFI, pump gas and he also went on that tour with a solid roller and didn't need to do any lash adjustments the whole way.  The street roller technology is coming along very nicely as well.  I will be driving mine more than Doc does, so I am still staying hydraulic.

It is nice seeing all these street cars running hard on pump gas.  Very nice.
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347HO
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2014, 09:25:33 am »

Your missing my experience here...
I'm talking about a real Hyd roller cam and < 7000rpm...
I will be impressed when you run 9s with that.  I would think that's not going to be simple.
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... it was REALLY revving at like 4K...
If I saw that thing in my rear view Im pulling over to let you by, I be scared of that thing Huh? i dont know wich car is uglier ur or mine?
Javier
Ugly?  Easy now -- that's my baby and it's got lots of unique character!  When I drop that built 445" stroker in it you won't have any time to "pull over to let me pass" because I'll have already blown past you when you figure out what the hell was that loud noise behind you . . .  
ERStettin
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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2014, 02:00:40 pm »

Your missing my experience here...
I'm talking about a real Hyd roller cam and < 7000rpm...
I will be impressed when you run 9s with that.  I would think that's not going to be simple.

LOL, I have missed nothing.  You are quoted as stating running 10's USED to be hard, yet I and others do it easily with 363's and smaller engines on all motor, hydraulic roller cams, and pump gas.  Now add 70 to 80 more cubic inches and it is pretty easy to figure out what it will do.  I have friends doing it already with these combinations.  The only hard part I will have is getting it to hook.

You ought to visit a drag strip sometime.  Check out what people are running and using these days.  I am guessing you would be very amazed.  Seems like you are living back in the muscle car era of the 60's and 70's.

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Outlaw Bill
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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2014, 08:22:08 pm »

Anything from 400-454 c.i.d will work.
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347HO
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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2014, 08:32:37 pm »

Once again you're wrong.
I ran 9.80 with a SBC in 1988, N/A and no adder.
The above is called "getting under 10s..."

You build this 427ci ford with a hydraulic roller and I'll keep watching for this 9 second run out the back UNDER 7000rpm, gas station gas, and no adder at 3300# or more.
This will be very impressive to me...   even if it's simple.


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... it was REALLY revving at like 4K...
If I saw that thing in my rear view Im pulling over to let you by, I be scared of that thing Huh? i dont know wich car is uglier ur or mine?
Javier
Ugly?  Easy now -- that's my baby and it's got lots of unique character!  When I drop that built 445" stroker in it you won't have any time to "pull over to let me pass" because I'll have already blown past you when you figure out what the hell was that loud noise behind you . . .  
347HO
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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2014, 08:36:04 pm »

  The only hard part I will have is getting it to hook.
Yeah, I agree.
I assume more money will be spent on a transmission and a grenade proof rearend and a lot of weight loss.
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... it was REALLY revving at like 4K...
If I saw that thing in my rear view Im pulling over to let you by, I be scared of that thing Huh? i dont know wich car is uglier ur or mine?
Javier
Ugly?  Easy now -- that's my baby and it's got lots of unique character!  When I drop that built 445" stroker in it you won't have any time to "pull over to let me pass" because I'll have already blown past you when you figure out what the hell was that loud noise behind you . . .  
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« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2014, 08:46:50 pm »

Why the 7000 rpm cap? Even without lightweight components, 7500-8000 is fairly easy. Throw in a 1.3" spring package and decent lifters, and 8000+ becomes commonplace. It just takes properly selected components.
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Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
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