Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 17, 2018, 01:46:03 am

Login with username, password and session length
TRADER Feedback System
IS NOW AVAILABLE
* SBFTECH Membership Required *
435246 Posts in 37263 Topics by 9537 Members
Latest Member: Mgabski
Search: Advanced search
Advertiser Inquiries
+ My Community
|-+ Small Block Talk
| |-+ Small Block Windsors
| | |-+ 289 Small Blocks
| | | |-+ Formula for dirt cheap stoud 5.0 build needed
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Formula for dirt cheap stoud 5.0 build needed  (Read 13842 times)
danford1
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 87


Location: White Lake, Michigan

« on: June 23, 2014, 08:04:10 pm »

 I have been reading through old threads for a couple hours. I know buried in here somewhere are threads with the formulas or parts lists to build a dirt cheap but powerful 5.0 Carb engine.
 I mean something like 5.0 roller block, stock Mustang GT pistons, stock Mustang GT cam, such and such intake, this carb, these heads with those headers etc.
All dirt cheap stuff.
May not be a 400 hp power house but will be more than a stock Mustang GT engine.
The thing I most want to know is which CHEAP heads and Cheap intake.
I already know Canfield would fit the bill , but come on, they aren't cheap.
This is for a low budget engine going into a 66 Fairlane street cruiser. Not a drag racer, just a stout street cruiser. Doesn't have to be the most powerful set up out there just the Most Bang For the proverbial buck.

 I remember reading some info like this a year or three ago but can't find it. Soon I'll be needing the info to start the parts search or find the stout engine that has the parts already in it and running that the guy wants to get rid of, cheap.
 
We hear stories about that too. A guy spent 2 years building his engine set up. It is done and in the car, runs excellent but now ran into hard times and needs cash fast. Is selling everything for $800 etc. Trouble is when you look for those deals they can't be found. When you don't need or want the stuff, you stumble onto them. I haven't stumbled onto one yet...

 So can someone list some links where these parts lists or formulas are written?
Thanks
Danford1
Logged

Those who say it can't be done should not interrupt those that are busy doing it.


Dart 376 SHP block, 4.155" bore, 3.47" stroke, Woody custom cam, TFS 11R 205, ported Vic Jr, 750 mechanical carb. 1 5/8" Hedman headers. 517 Flywheel hp, 498 Flywheel tq.
juiced coupe
Six figures worth of don't give a f*ck
Global Moderator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8394


Location: Pascagoula, MS
The land mass between New Orleans and Mobile


« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2014, 09:48:02 pm »

Any roller cam short block will work. 85-92 HO engines have forged pistons (86 only, no VR). 92-95 HO and Explorer engines have similarly designed hyper pistons. IRC, all others have cast pistons that may or may not have valve reliefs.

Explorer, Lightning, and Cobra GT40 heads would be preferred. If proper headers are available for your car, Explorer GT40P heads are also a option.

There are several HO cam variants available, but all will be an improvement over base models. Be sure to use a steel gear on the distributor.

Any high rise dual plane will work. Stealth, Performer RPM, etc. Small single plane line a Weiand Xcelerator will also work.

A Duraspark distributor, TFI coil, and HEI module provide a good ignition for minimal money. Curve it for a fast advance, instructions available online.

Consider headers and a free flowing exhaust a must for maximum performance. There are a few straight core mufflers available for ~$40 each . Avoid louvered core glass packs.

If you want the most out of it, consider a performance oriented carb. A 4100 or other stock based 4V will never match a property tuned Holley DP in the performance department.

Consider a valve spring upgrade mandatory. If you can find a set of 1.7 bolt down rockers for a good price, they are a worthy addition.

Variants of the above will run 13s in the average street car and 12s in a good working car.
Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
Haystack
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 609


Location: West Valley City, Utah

« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2014, 12:30:23 am »

3.8 V-6's use 1.7 ratio rockers. i beleive them to be the same and plan on mesuring some to be 100% on my build.
Logged

1987 Ford thunderbird. sn-95 t-5, f-150 clutch and flywheel behind a 5.0 s.o. weighs about 3500lbs.
1986 cougar gs. 5.0 s.o. and aod.
danford1
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 87


Location: White Lake, Michigan

« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2014, 12:50:59 pm »

Sounds like I need to start looking for an 86 Mustang GT engine. If it came stock without valve reliefs then it should have a smidge more compression.
 I have a roller cam out of an 85 Mustang GT (first year for roller). Was there a lot of cam changes after 85?
I see GT40 heads here and there all the time. I saw someplace advertise rebuilt ones ready to go for not much jingle. Just can't remember where that was, I didn't write it down like I should have...

Intakes shouldn't be to hard or expensive to find. I have a sand blaster and can clean it up easy.
 I've got a Holley 650 DP carb here I can rebuild for it.

 Right now the car has the original stock 289 2v engine, cast iron intake, cast iron exhaust manifolds, single exhaust the whole stock set up. I was on the Hot Rod Power Tour a couple weeks ago and made a pass at Norwalk. It turned a blistering 18.401 at 75.77 mph. BUT I got between 20 and 24 mpg while on the tour :-) While toolin down the highway the stock set up is nice. More power would be good but at the expense of gas mileage.

 I'll have to check to see what headers work in a 66 Fairlane with power steering and column shift. I might have to go with shorty style headers. I know from past experience with some old Fords that headers and column shifters didn't agree very well unless you buy $600 headers... That won't happen here. Heck i could probably pick up a running 86 Mustang GT engine for $600.

 Another question.
How do the factory headers compare to after market shorty headers? Are they close in TQ and HP or is there a huge difference?

Thanks for the info so far. I appreciate it. Keep it coming.

Danford1
Logged

Those who say it can't be done should not interrupt those that are busy doing it.


Dart 376 SHP block, 4.155" bore, 3.47" stroke, Woody custom cam, TFS 11R 205, ported Vic Jr, 750 mechanical carb. 1 5/8" Hedman headers. 517 Flywheel hp, 498 Flywheel tq.
danford1
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 87


Location: White Lake, Michigan

« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2014, 02:15:50 pm »

 I found this locally. An 88 Lincoln 5.0L engine, 141,000 miles $200

http://www.ebay.com/itm/86-87-88-89-90-91-CROWN-VICTORIA-ENGINE-5-0L-VIN-F-8TH-DIGIT-119699-/161121856464?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item25839c6bd0&vxp=mtr

 How would this be for a starting point for a roller carbed project engine?

Danford1
Logged

Those who say it can't be done should not interrupt those that are busy doing it.


Dart 376 SHP block, 4.155" bore, 3.47" stroke, Woody custom cam, TFS 11R 205, ported Vic Jr, 750 mechanical carb. 1 5/8" Hedman headers. 517 Flywheel hp, 498 Flywheel tq.
danford1
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 87


Location: White Lake, Michigan

« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2014, 04:05:20 pm »

 I found out the above $200 engine doesn't run, sold for parts and core only.
They have another one that runs with 117,00 miles out of a 90 Lincoln for $400.
That would make a better donor in my mind.
I have a question on pistons now. What compression does a 90 Lincoln engine have? I assume E7 heads are on it. Would GT40 heads raise or lower the compression?
Yes I know I can get heads milled and block decked but this a cheap build, not an all out max effort lots of money engine.
Thanks again.
Danford1
Logged

Those who say it can't be done should not interrupt those that are busy doing it.


Dart 376 SHP block, 4.155" bore, 3.47" stroke, Woody custom cam, TFS 11R 205, ported Vic Jr, 750 mechanical carb. 1 5/8" Hedman headers. 517 Flywheel hp, 498 Flywheel tq.
mighty mouse
"Prom King Mista Nathan Moonen"
Administrator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12781


Location: Decorah, Iowa
I'll be the Judge of that


« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2014, 05:42:45 pm »

That depends on what Lincoln it came out of.  Some Lincolns had the 5.0 HO engine that was the same as the Mustang.  All others had the non- HO variant.  They used a cast dish piston with valve reliefs also.  They also used E6 "high swirl" heads. 

Junk.
Logged

1986 Mustang GT Convertible
Suspension and Differential by Team Z Motorsports
9.5 Deck Forged Stroker Shortblock by FordStrokers
Trick Flow High Ports and Super Vic EFI intake by Duane Busch

I'd rather be a fool who is loyal to his friends than a POS that jumps ship to save face. We were wrong in the end, but nobody can ever call us disloyal. I can live with that.
thunderjet302
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 578


Location: Chicago, IL

« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2014, 06:07:27 pm »

I found this locally. An 88 Lincoln 5.0L engine, 141,000 miles $200

http://www.ebay.com/itm/86-87-88-89-90-91-CROWN-VICTORIA-ENGINE-5-0L-VIN-F-8TH-DIGIT-119699-/161121856464?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item25839c6bd0&vxp=mtr

 How would this be for a starting point for a roller carbed project engine?

Danford1

That's not a HO engine. The only Lincolns with the E7 headed SEFI 5.0 HO were the 88-92 Mark VII. Everything else has the garbage E6 heads and lo-po cam. 
Logged

1988 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp Magnum 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Edelbrock 70mm TB, 80mm PMAS slot MAF, 30lb injectors, FMS stainless shorties, 2.5" exhaust, AOD with 2800 PI converter, 8.8 with 3.73 gears, 31 spline Traction-Lok, 31 spline Moser axles, subframes.
2011 Focus SE, 2012 Mustang 3.7, 2017 Honda Accord EX-L V6
D Staff
Stroked Small Block
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 262

Location: Southern Maryland

« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2014, 06:19:35 pm »

3.8 V-6's use 1.7 ratio rockers. i beleive them to be the same and plan on mesuring some to be 100% on my build.

The 3.8 V6 does use a 1.73:1 rocker ratio. However, they have a longer pivot length that is much closer to a BBF or Cleveland. If you use those rockers on a Windsor head, the tip will likely be very close to riding off of the valve.
Logged
RunninHorse
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3353


Location: Floresville, Texas
Órale!


« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2014, 12:26:36 am »

How many miles on the 289?  Why do you want to switch to a 302?  Sounds like you already have the basis for a reliable engine. You can drive it on a power tour, race it and drive it home.

Maybe just do full exhaust, a cam, gears and enjoy it.
Logged

I'm Rob.  Working on my '93 Reef Blue coupe.  Stock internal 302, 80 MAF, 75 TB, Victor 5.0, High Ports, 30# inj., B303, 1.6s, Tremec TKO 3550, Quicktime bell, Fidanza Al flywheel, stage 3 ceramic clutch, & 4.10s.  12.68 @ 111.69
'66 F100 shortbed, 352ci, 3 on the tree - on hold
'65 Coupe rolling chassis - on hold
Parts I'm selling: 
Hardened Push Rods - Trick Flow 6.2" .080 - $60
Misc. Fox Body Interior Pieces
Joel5.0
El Hombre
Administrator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 22510


Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2014, 08:40:35 am »

I think that the article that you are looking for is the "Budget 300 HP Build" .... LUK
Logged

ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
juiced coupe
Six figures worth of don't give a f*ck
Global Moderator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8394


Location: Pascagoula, MS
The land mass between New Orleans and Mobile


« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2014, 11:58:31 am »

That depends on what Lincoln it came out of.  Some Lincolns had the 5.0 HO engine that was the same as the Mustang. 

Based on web info:
86-87 MK VII LSC only, same as 86 Mustang. Flat tops without VRs and E6 heads. Non LSC cars had the base engine.
88-92 MK VII, same as 87-92 Mustang. Semi-flat tops with small dish and 4 VRs. E7 heads.

All others had the non- HO variant.  They used a cast dish piston with valve reliefs also.  They also used E6 "high swirl" heads. 

All of the passenger car non-HO engines I have come across (SEFI) have had dished pistons without VRs and E6 heads.

Sounds like I need to start looking for an 86 Mustang GT engine. If it came stock without valve reliefs then it should have a smidge more compression.

Only if you plan on cutting the valve reliefs yourself. The engines without valve reliefs all used the E6 heads. The E6 heads were a high swirl design that had valve seats that were slightly higher in the casting than other designs. If you ever see a set, it will be obvious why they don't perform well.

87-92 Mustang and 88-92 MK VII all had forged pistons with a small dish and 4 VRs.
92-95 Mustang had hyper pistons with a small dish and 4 VRs.
Explorer 5.0s had hyper flat tops with 4 VRs and no dish.

All of the truck engines I have come across had the earlier design pistons in them. Shorter compression height flat tops with 4 small VRs. These also had a standard ring package. Truck engines didn't get roller cams until the early 90s, but the E7 blocks in earlier models are compatible. Some blocks may not have the holes for the spider drilled/tapped.

If I had to pick one of the above, the Explorer engine would be my choice. The hyper pistons are stronger than some give them credit for and will offer a little more compression than the other designs with VRs. They are newer than any of the other engines, so they are likely in better condition. And they have likely had a easier life than a Mustang engine.

And if you find a Explorer engine, it may still have the GT40 or GT40P heads still on it. I wouldn't mess with the P heads on your car with limited header options, but they sell easily.

I have a roller cam out of an 85 Mustang GT (first year for roller). Was there a lot of cam changes after 85?

Not enough to worry about, they all make similar power.

The 85-88 cam is considered to be more desirable by many.

89-95 cams had slightly changed specs and 94-95 cams had a material change.

There is also the 93-95 Cobra and 93 only Thunderbird HO cam. It is a high torque version that gives up a little power to other HO cams.

I tried to post all this a couple days ago. I was out of town with very poor Wi-Fi that kept dropping signal while I was posting.
Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
danford1
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 87


Location: White Lake, Michigan

« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2014, 11:56:35 am »

That is all great info. Thank you.
I may start looking for an Explorer engine.
Next question. Would the stock 85 Mustang GT cam I have on hand be better than the cam in the Explorer engine?

Danford1
Logged

Those who say it can't be done should not interrupt those that are busy doing it.


Dart 376 SHP block, 4.155" bore, 3.47" stroke, Woody custom cam, TFS 11R 205, ported Vic Jr, 750 mechanical carb. 1 5/8" Hedman headers. 517 Flywheel hp, 498 Flywheel tq.
juiced coupe
Six figures worth of don't give a f*ck
Global Moderator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8394


Location: Pascagoula, MS
The land mass between New Orleans and Mobile


« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2014, 01:00:26 pm »

Next question. Would the stock 85 Mustang GT cam I have on hand be better than the cam in the Explorer engine?

Yes. The Explorer cam is similar to base cam that was in Lincoln's and trucks.
Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
danford1
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 87


Location: White Lake, Michigan

« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2014, 04:14:07 pm »

 I know this thread is a month old but now I'm starting to look for an Explorer engine.
I would like to stay with the GT40 head and not the P head to avoid header problems.
What year Explorer should I look for?
Does anyone know of a deal on one in south east Michigan?
I know as soon as I buy one someone would say" why didn't you tell me you were looking for one. My buddy has one he wants to off load Cheap!"
I'd rather find that guys buddy right now ;-)
Danford1
Logged

Those who say it can't be done should not interrupt those that are busy doing it.


Dart 376 SHP block, 4.155" bore, 3.47" stroke, Woody custom cam, TFS 11R 205, ported Vic Jr, 750 mechanical carb. 1 5/8" Hedman headers. 517 Flywheel hp, 498 Flywheel tq.
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines



408 Stroker