Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 20, 2018, 03:58:55 am

Login with username, password and session length
Director PLEASE!!!!
Add your location information to your personal profile. Thanx!
435277 Posts in 37275 Topics by 9537 Members
Latest Member: Mgabski
Search: Advanced search
Advertiser Inquiries
+ My Community
|-+ General Tech
| |-+ Joel 5.0's Electronic Engine Management
| | |-+ Speed density processor in a mass air car
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Speed density processor in a mass air car  (Read 15603 times)
David Claflin
Adv_SBFTechie
Big Block
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7907


Location: Redneck Riviera (Ft Walton Beach Florida)

« on: January 21, 2014, 10:03:38 pm »

Thinking of trying an experiment with a 4 hole throttle body on a fox car. I could swap in a speed density harness, or just a processor. Looking at the pinouts, the only issues are the TAB/TAD solenoids, but they're not even on the car anymore, I could swap pins, or just disregard them altogether.
Would it be feasible to pull the pins out for # 9, MAF return, and #50 MAF SIG and see how it works??

http://www.oldfuelinjection.com/5.0Lpinouts.html

http://www.oldfuelinjection.com/?p=6
Logged

1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
Joel5.0
El Hombre
Administrator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 22510


Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2014, 07:32:52 am »

Remove or leave the TAB/TAD pins out. You do not have to remove the MAF pins when you switch processors, the EEC will simply ignore them.
Logged

ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
David Claflin
Adv_SBFTechie
Big Block
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7907


Location: Redneck Riviera (Ft Walton Beach Florida)

« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2014, 09:23:27 pm »

Sweet, this will make for an interesting comparison. GT40/explorer vs. vic jr, and a 4-hole throttle body.
Logged

1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
85_GT
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1578

Location: NYC area

« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2014, 10:04:11 pm »

Don't forget to dial in the VE table for each...
Logged

85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
jayh
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5471

Location: Buffalo

« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2014, 10:48:54 am »

can you tune for injector??

Id love to do that with mine with a 60lber in there
Logged

425" pump gas 6.2@110
David Claflin
Adv_SBFTechie
Big Block
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7907


Location: Redneck Riviera (Ft Walton Beach Florida)

« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2014, 07:00:14 pm »

Don't forget to dial in the VE table for each...
I don't have the datalogging bin yet, if this seems like it'll pan out I'll probably spring for that one from pops racing. I've still got the old version of BE on the old laptop so I'd be good on that part.

can you tune for injector??

Id love to do that with mine with a 60lber in there
I talked Michael into putting 24s into his 87LX, and I then put a chip in it, to my surprise it ran.. I had never messed with one of the speed density tunes before. I followed him to the track and he said it ran fine. He thought it felt lazy, but wasn't sure,  it ran a little faster at the track, I added a little more WOT fuel, and it ran a little faster. Was going to put more to it but some fool shit all over the track so didn't get any more runs in.
All I changed was the injector timing, spark, injector slopes, and offset, and HEGO delay because of the longtubes. That little car runs pretty good, for a stock gt40 motor with an HO cam and 3" exhaust.

Logged

1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
David Claflin
Adv_SBFTechie
Big Block
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7907


Location: Redneck Riviera (Ft Walton Beach Florida)

« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2014, 07:02:06 pm »

Remove or leave the TAB/TAD pins out. You do not have to remove the MAF pins when you switch processors, the EEC will simply ignore them.
THanks Joel,  I'll give it a whirl, once I figure out why the fuel pump won't kick on in engine run, but comes on for 2.5 seconds only in engine start.
Logged

1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
jayh
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5471

Location: Buffalo

« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2014, 10:04:01 am »

I put 24's in a bunch of SD cars some of them I upped fuel psi to like 55

If I made a move itd have to be to a bigger injector, and then I figure if I do that I should swap cams and add boost. I cant get the car to work now so Im shy on adding power really
Logged

425" pump gas 6.2@110
Teddyzee
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 531


Location: Nova Scotia Canada

« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2014, 02:24:22 pm »

Pin 19 is connected to the car fuel system, goes to the inertia switch in my application. Without a connection here the fuel system shouldn't operate with the SD ECU in a Mass Air vehicle.
Logged

'97Ranger 5.0 HO EFI T-5
'97 Mustang GT
Joel5.0
El Hombre
Administrator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 22510


Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2014, 09:59:23 am »

FPM is not an input that shuts down the FP relay output..... that's what the inertia switch is in charge of. Wink
Logged

ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
David Claflin
Adv_SBFTechie
Big Block
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7907


Location: Redneck Riviera (Ft Walton Beach Florida)

« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2014, 09:53:04 pm »

I put a DA1 processor in the car along with a chip I put a quick tune on, along with a MAP sensor I found in a parts box. It fired right up and settled into a nice smooth idle, with 30 pound injectors, having the stock cam helped I'm sure.
Logged

1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
David Claflin
Adv_SBFTechie
Big Block
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7907


Location: Redneck Riviera (Ft Walton Beach Florida)

« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2014, 05:28:16 pm »

I broke down and bought the sailorbob definition file. I've been working with it a couple days, this thing sure was putting fuel to it at first, high 10's in the lambse with the only mods to the tune being injector offset, and slopes. The datalog in BE with the moving trace on the tables is very helpful, never messed with it before, but does help to make quick changes along the road.
Logged

1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
nealysa
Stroked Small Block
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 396

Location: Honolulu

« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2014, 05:48:04 pm »

Was all that fuel just at cold start?
Logged
85_GT
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1578

Location: NYC area

« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2014, 06:36:50 pm »

The trace is nice.  I like it for the spark table as you can see which cell(s) maybe the one causing any pinging.
Logged

85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
David Claflin
Adv_SBFTechie
Big Block
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7907


Location: Redneck Riviera (Ft Walton Beach Florida)

« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2014, 08:01:32 pm »

Was all that fuel just at cold start?
No, it actually ran fine at all times, but it was only rich like that at WOT. I didn't know it was that far off, as I couldn't data log it. I'm sure it's not that rich on a stock car. I suspect because the intake is ported, and it has an 80MM TB on it, so there is most likely little to no vacuum at WOT. Even a stocker will have some vacuum at WOT, and as vacuum plays a large part in how the stock speed density system, from what I understand, that might play a role in why it was like that.
The stock DEF can't datalog, so I used a single wire O2 sensor from an early 80's ford pickup, and a digital volt meter to check how it was before I bought the other DEF. A wideband is much better, but mine shit the bed and I just haven't gotten it fixed yet.
Logged

1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines



408 Stroker