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Author Topic: 390 running very hot  (Read 71564 times)
mikestang
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« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2013, 09:50:03 am »

I see the idea of lowering timing, but what good will that do when it heats up even at idle ONLY.  I moved it to 2deg at idle, been running right now for 15 min, already at 205 and it is only 60 deg outside.
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scienceguy
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« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2013, 10:31:15 am »

If it's heating up as much, and as quickly as you say it is....   It's probably more than an ignition timing issue.

You gave the temps of the radiator at the top and bottom.  Have you compared those temps to a car that doesn't heat up?  That way you can compare the change in temp at the top and bottom (or side to side on a crossflow unit) to see how much the rad is dropping the temperature.  If you don't have much of a change in temperature compared to a car that is working right under the same conditions, then that's where you need to look.  If the radiator is dropping the temperature by the same number of degrees, you need to look at the engine. 

At least that seems like something to look into.

Good Luck!
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1966 Mustang, Toploader 4-speed
Pump Gas, Flat Tappet 306
9.88 @ 135.67
jayh
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« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2013, 11:27:16 am »

reply #42 is suggesting raise base with less advance or just lock it out
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mikestang
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« Reply #48 on: September 11, 2013, 11:29:53 am »

I don't have a car with a down flow rad and the same engine to compare to.  My mustang, 347 stroker and a 180 t stat the difference in the rad in and out temp is only about 15 deg, and my car will hold 180 no matter what.


Like I have said, all cooling system parts have been changed, still makes too much heat.  Has had a HV pump, alum rad different t stats ect.  No hydrocarbons detected in the coolant and still passes a block test.  Still seems to me like it is an issue in the engine.  Remember this all started after the engine rebuild.  The customer is to the point where he justo want to pull the engines and have it gone through.  I think that will be the next step.  
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Ammosteve
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« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2013, 09:08:23 am »

That block maybe just too thin now.  do you know what the oil temp gets to?
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mikestang
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« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2013, 03:55:19 pm »

Oil temp was around 225-230 when the cooling system was 238-240.  Measured with a thermistor put down the dipstick tube, seemed more accurate then using a raytech on the thick alum pan.

Pulled the engine on fri, just need to send it out.
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mikestang
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« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2013, 05:34:25 pm »

Started pulling this thing apart, here is some info and pics.

Down to the short block, takes 36 ftlbs to get the engine to start to turn, 30 ftlbs to maintain turning.

Head gaskets installed with the open coolant port in the rear.
Coolant post in the block appear clear.  Have not pulled freeze plugs yet.

Here is some pics of the heads, first one is driver side, font of head on right side
Second pic is pass side, front of head on the left.

Any thoughts?


* image.jpg (1257.52 KB, 2592x1936 - viewed 373 times.)

* image.jpg (1346.93 KB, 2592x1936 - viewed 349 times.)
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mikestang
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« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2013, 06:36:54 pm »

I did my best to measure the cylinder wall thickness.  I can measure the front cylinders through the water pump inlet hole right to the cylinder. Reading about .125 thick.

There is a ton of sluge in the bottom of the water jackets, especially in the rear.  About 1/2 to 3/4 in deep.
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scienceguy
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« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2013, 09:16:15 pm »


Down to the short block, takes 36 ftlbs to get the engine to start to turn, 30 ftlbs to maintain turning.


I built a 427 with a 428 crank (454ci) FE, and if memory serves, it took around 24ft-lbs to get it turning, and less than that to keep it turning.  Sounds like it's really stiff.  After it's been running, the bare shortblock with no heads shouldn't take hardly anything to spin over.  You might have some really tight rings, or something. 
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1966 Mustang, Toploader 4-speed
Pump Gas, Flat Tappet 306
9.88 @ 135.67
mikestang
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« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2013, 12:36:29 am »

Seemed tight to me. My 347 turned at 19ftlbs and rotated at 17ftlbs.

Still looking and pulling apart
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Ammosteve
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« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2013, 09:21:22 am »

[There is a ton of sluge in the bottom of the water jackets, especially in the rear.  About 1/2 to 3/4 in deep.
[/quote]

This is a problem...

You said this was a recent rebuild?  In your first post you said all internals reused...was it already .030 over or was it bored and new pistons installed?

The picture of the heads show a lot of oil and one cylinder shows water entering the chamber.

Do you have pictures of the head gaskets and the block?
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mikestang
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« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2013, 01:24:11 pm »

I agree sluge is a problem.  Make me wonder about the quality of the rest of the rebuild.

It is only new pistons that I know of, .020 over

There is actually burnt oil on all the intake valves, seems pretty bad for only 1000 miles on this thing.  I don't have pics of the other stuff. 

Because it appears to be poor work we are sending it all out to another builder. He knows the whole situation and said he has seen some 390's run hotter at only .020 over.  He said he will sonic test the cylinders for thin spots.
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nflfreak43
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Re:
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2013, 10:54:28 am »

Wow.. I'd be pissed if I got shafted by previous builder..


Smokin' Tires with my 5.0 on Tapatalk
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 Reman'd 5.0 Short Block, Trick Flow Track Heat 170 58cc Heads, Comp Cam XE-264HR, ported Truck intake, Pacesetter shorty headers
Rebuilt AOD 1/4/2012 @ 159,450 miles, 4.10 LSD 164,200 miles on 11/28/12
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mikestang
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« Reply #58 on: October 09, 2013, 12:49:18 am »

Still out at the builder, guess he is pretty backed up.  I'll post what he finds when he gets to it.
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wywindsor
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« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2013, 11:48:57 pm »

Is it at Greely machine now?
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