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Author Topic: 390 running very hot  (Read 71572 times)
mikestang
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« on: September 03, 2013, 11:26:01 pm »

  There is a car that I am working on that I cannot seem to figure out.  1967 Merc Cougar with a 390 auto trans.  Car is beautiful, fully restored, but as it says above, it runs very hot and I cannot figure out why.  Ill try to keep this story short, but I need to get you all the info.

  Car was running just fine, temp wise, but engine had a lot of miles, almost 200k if I remember.  Customer had the engine rebuilt by some Cougar guy and after rebuild and re-install it runs hot. Here is the info I have.

- Same 390 block bored .030 over
- Same internals, just turned crank and new bearings
- Edelbrock RPM heads and intake maniold
- Small cam, dont know the specs

So as installed the engine will get up to 240*, starts pushing out coolant.  Happens with and without the AC on, but heats up faster with the AC on.  Same fan same pullies, same shroud as before. Depending on ambient it can get hotter.

Initial thought was head gaskets installed wrong, but I took the heads off to check and the coolant hole is in the front. (this has been a long process, was not my first action)

No hydro-carbons in the coolant.  Passes a block test, (blue chemical that turns green or yellow with combustion gases)

Had a 195 t-stat, tried a 180, no change.  Installed edelbrock high flow water pump, no help.  Installed alum Griffen radiator, no help.  Tried a flex style fan instead of OE clutch fan, no help.  Checked for plugged exhaust, not plugged.  Running only 12* of base timing and total of 36* at 3000rpm.  Not lean, about 1.5% CO at idle and 2% at 3000, Loaded CO goes to around 4-5%.

I keep going back to the fact that there was no issue until the engine was rebuilt.  Could it be an issue with the heads, or the intake?  Not sure what to check next.  I checked rotating torque when the heads were off, I think it was around 15 ft lbs?  Did not seem high to me at the time, dont have a spec.

I know this is a long post, but I appreciate your input. Told the guy the engine may have to come back out, but I am not 100% sure what to look for at this point....

thanks

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liljoe07
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2013, 11:52:12 pm »

I know nothing about an FE. But typically the coolant holes in the head gaskets should be in the rear, not the front.
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dennis112
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 05:37:37 am »

I know nothing about an FE. But typically the coolant holes in the head gaskets should be in the rear, not the front.

+1 

That would be a good place to start your research.
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Dennis

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jayh
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2013, 08:11:08 am »

+2
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mikestang
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2013, 09:27:47 am »

Ok, I will double check where they are.  Any way to tell with out pulling heads?
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dennis112
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« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2013, 09:47:28 am »

On most small block ford gaskets there is a tab that sticks out on the front side that can be visible near the intake-its a good indicator.  No such tab on the rear of the gasket.  

Again, not familiar with FE stuff know if they do it or not.  

By the looks of this 390 gasket you "might" see one long tab:

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Dennis

65' Stang, 434W NA, Victor Heads, Super Vic Intake, 11:1, Braswell Carb, Bullet SR Cam, G101A 4-Speed, 4:56 rear, 93 Octane Pump Gas  9.82@138.00
mikestang
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« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 09:51:31 am »

Thanks, ill look at it again.  I may be mistaken about the coolant hole in the front, I may be thinking about the tab? I'll post what I find.
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mikestang
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« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2013, 03:12:27 pm »

Here is a pic of the head.  Head gasket fits flush in the front and the rear.  This appears to be correct?


* image.jpg (1399.42 KB, 2592x1936 - viewed 456 times.)
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mighty mouse
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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2013, 03:26:46 pm »

Sure you didn't leave a rag or other such stuffing in a radiator hose inlet/outlet?

I did that once... took forever to figure out!
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mikestang
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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2013, 04:55:50 pm »

^ I wish, I actually checked at one point a while back. 

Did that head gasket look correct.

Other ideas?
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incon_92
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2013, 08:45:48 pm »

Been a long time since I messed with FE engines. I do remember the old iron heads cracking and causing problems.

I sure don't miss those giant intakes. 
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mikestang
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« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2013, 09:12:59 pm »

 They are new alum Edelbrock alum heads
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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2013, 09:31:08 pm »

Have you ran the engine with the radiator cap off looking to see the coolant flow after the thermostat opens?

Does the coolant flow faster in proportion to the engine speed that your hand is changing to various different speeds while watching inside the radiator where the cap would normally cover?
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Robert's 1969 Mercury Montego (FordStrokers 408W, QFT 850cfm RQ-AN, Super Victor, 1" aluminum open spacer, CamMotion HR .624"/.609" 251*/256* 108* LSA, 1-3/4"x3-1/2" headers, Dynomax Ultra #17224 mufflers, C6/4R100 trans, 8"/9" 5500 converter, Broader Performance manual V/B, 9" 4.56 Detroit Truetrac, Hoosier Pro Street 31x12.5R15 on 10" rims)

The Merc started here = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,27178.0.html  Now = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,34648.0.html

Thanks to Jim "Woody" and Nicole Woods @ FordStrokers 408W, Westminster Performance Transmission (W.P.T.) transmissions, TCS Performance converters, Broader Performance valvebodies and last but not least a BIG thanks (always) to my friends here and abroad in the World!
mikestang
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« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2013, 10:45:45 pm »

I have, it does flow. Had to drain some coolant to see it. It does change with engine speed. Hard to say if it is enough flow, I have no similar down flow radiators to compare it to.  I know that is an open ended answer but it is all I have.  I even installed a temporary piece of clear hose to watch it flow, it does.

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« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2013, 09:59:47 am »

Does your radiator have a good enclosed shroud assembly around the fan(s)?
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Robert's 1969 Mercury Montego (FordStrokers 408W, QFT 850cfm RQ-AN, Super Victor, 1" aluminum open spacer, CamMotion HR .624"/.609" 251*/256* 108* LSA, 1-3/4"x3-1/2" headers, Dynomax Ultra #17224 mufflers, C6/4R100 trans, 8"/9" 5500 converter, Broader Performance manual V/B, 9" 4.56 Detroit Truetrac, Hoosier Pro Street 31x12.5R15 on 10" rims)

The Merc started here = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,27178.0.html  Now = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,34648.0.html

Thanks to Jim "Woody" and Nicole Woods @ FordStrokers 408W, Westminster Performance Transmission (W.P.T.) transmissions, TCS Performance converters, Broader Performance valvebodies and last but not least a BIG thanks (always) to my friends here and abroad in the World!
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