THE '69 Merc

[Guest]

[69 Merc]

I had a nightmare that the "lightest advance springs" that I had earlier installed on the distributor so that all of it's timing came in early (like 1800 rpms) would one day snap when I was romping on the gas pedal sending the timing thru the roof if one of the weak fragile total advance tabs broke at WOT which could ruin the 408W quickly.

Exactly NONE of those things will ever happen.  Maybe work on the springs to have advance in by 2500 or so.  The tabs are not weak or fragile.

Advance springs do break sometimes.  I used to run the Moroso very light springs -- they are fragile and very light with very little substance to them if you've ever seen them.

The Pertronix distributors' total advance limiting tabs are weak and fragile.

I'm not sure why you chose to argue my points but I can assure you from owning a few Pertronix distributors that I know what I'm talking about.

When my 363W threw a rod the springs and the advance tabs were broken on the other Pertronix distributor.  Sure it was a major catastrophe but I don't want it to happen again at WOT.

It's better safe than sorry.

I have run both ways -- mechanical advance and having the timing locked-out and I will not use springs ever again.




For me $300 dollars for a unit that will cure the problem and probably give me a better spark is not that much money ...      

[jayh]

at the end of the day you still wont have a choke? I was under the impression this was on colder starts like 50-60degrees out?

for some reason I still think she wants fuel 

[69 Merc]

at the end of the day you still wont have a choke? I was under the impression this was on colder starts like 50-60degrees out?

for some reason I still think she wants fuel 

I almost made a mistake about getting rid of my $900 QFT race 850cfm choke-less carb when my intake manifold gasket placement was making the engine run like shit in the higher rpms.

I love my QFT carb.  I won't get rid of it.

No chokes.


I'm not sure why you think it needs more fuel when I've told everyone a hundred times that if it's rich is will have a much greater chance of a kick-back?

 

[jayh]

cold engines want fuel. thats all there is too it. of course cold to you might be 70degrees 

[69 Merc]

Well I have installed the MSD box in the Merc.

It works very well and I like it.



Now I am not getting any starter "kick-back" but a new problem has arisen probably because of all of the God damned kick-backs!

(Isn't it ALWAYS something?!?!?!?)  LMAO!     



The Merc so far has started with no problems UNLESS if I try and do a re-start right after it has been running.  IOW if (I'm guessing) the starter motor assembly is hot it performs like crap!  As in that DREADFUL grinding usually after a second or a couple of seconds after it is spinning during an engine start.

I'm guessing that it could be any or all of the following problems -- worn teeth on the flexplate, worn teeth on the Bendix gear and/or the starter's over-run clutch is starting to fail.


I am going to look into it thoroughly soon.

[z-adamson]

Well I have installed the MSD box in the Merc.

It works very well and I like it.

Does the engine seem to run or drive differently with the MSD?

How much start up retard does it provide? What is the locked out timing set at?

[69 Merc]

Well I have installed the MSD box in the Merc.

It works very well and I like it.

Does the engine seem to run or drive differently with the MSD?

How much start up retard does it provide? What is the locked out timing set at?

It starts up better than before (as long as no grinding is going on).  It idles better now, too.

My engine idles rich so it will probably clean the plugs up I would think.

It provides 20* of timing retard while starting.

My timing is set at 32* locked-out.

[69 Merc]

So what is the SMALLEST hi-torque gear reduction starter that I can buy for the Merc and it's headers?

[69 Merc]

My trans guy has hooked me up with a alternator/starter new and rebuild shop in Huntington Beach.

It's all good.     

[jayh]

now remember Robert, 300 page limit 

 

[69 Merc]

now remember Robert, 300 page limit  

 

Ha, LOL!

I seem to remember that you and maybe someone else (maybe Juiced Coupe) too mentioned "is my starter spinning the engine fast enough to do the job adequately?" and I had (mistakenly) answered that "yes it was!"?!?

Well I bought a new starter and it spins the engine over MUCH faster.  And I had also forgotten the hi-torque starters' special sound that it makes while turning over the engine.  This bad starter had stopped making that whiny almost air-wrench type of sound a while back ...

I think that I am getting slow in the head with age?  LOL!

I can't seem to remember things well anymore.      

The other starter which is being rebuilt so I will have a known good back-up was not turning over the engine this fast no way no how!  It's internal gearing (I am using gear reduction torque multiplication starters) was messed up so that is why I was getting the random gear grinding.

Joe checked out the flexplate and said that it was ok, good deal!

He commented that with the timing locked-out it's always a good and financially smart idea to have a starting timing retard box with these powerful engines.  Both of us are figuring that the reason why the starter died after a year because I had locked out my ignition timing a couple of months ago and have been battling with the dreaded engine starter kick-backs.  At least it didn't tear up any other things in the process.


Live and learn, one day at a time!      

[69 Merc]

Since yesterday I've been having a slow start or sometimes only a loud click sound when I would try and start the Merc.

Yesterday it was random but this morning it was getting a lot worse.

All of the gauges that I have inside of the Merc come in handy (a speedometer, a tach, an A/F gauge, an oil pressure gauge, a manifold vacuum gauge and last but not least a voltmeter.

I monitor them every time that I drive the Merc so I am used to their "norm" settings during my daily driving.  So when something changes I note those changes being reflected in the in-car gauges which helps me in troubleshooting the mutherfucking problems ...  
 
  



So noting during the start-up problems that even though I was hearing the starter solenoid make it's click sound when the electromagnet is being engaged I was noticing that the expensive 800 CCA Optima battery was being drained rather quickly after each repeated start that I was doing this morning.  Earlier I had checked the battery voltage and it was an acceptable voltage.  Also I checked the charging system with the engine running and at the battery in the trunk and at the junction point by the engine were all reading 14.54 Vdc.  So that was OK.

I checked all of the wires associated with starting the Merc from the battery in the trunk all the way thru the car up to the starter and everything was solid, not loose.  And no wires/cable resting on the hot headers or any other nonsense like that.

Funny if you look all over the Net you probably would have missed that the bad fucking part was the firewall starter solenoid.  They say that if you hear a good and loud click that it probably works fine.  They warn people if you hear a bunch of quick clicks that it's probably toast.

Not always the case.  You can have a defective starter solenoid that will make the loud single click when you try and start your engine.

You see, when I was feeding the electromagnetic circuit of the solenoid everything was fine.  The problem was there was a partial short inside of the solenoid so that not 100% of the battery power was going from one of the large posts on the solenoid to the other post that is wired directly to the starter motor.  And that solenoid's internal problem was getting worse within one day.  It went from turning the engine over slowly to just making a loud single click or to turning the engine over VERY, VERY slowly and you could see a huge voltage drop while starting -- like cranking voltage dropping down to almost 8 Vdc.  Way bad.

I changed the starter solenoid for a new one and the very first attempt at starting the Merc rewarded me with it turning the engine over VERY quickly and it fired up excellently -- that is how it is supposed to be!      

[69 Merc]

Edit -- I just realized that I made an error in my last post here right above, I think.     



I will measure the internals with a volt meter tomorrow but when I said about a "internal partial short" I am thinking that is not the case.

What is a partial short?  Inside of a starter solenoid?

There probably is an area inside of the friggin' thing that has some high resistance?

I'm not sure and I know that I am VERY tired right now so the stupid brain isn't firing on all cylinders, ya' know?!?!?

I will measure it up tomorrow and will report any finding that I can pull out of that $20 P.O.S.


 

[liljoe07]

Just like any relay or contactor, the contactor pads go bad. Causing the voltage across them to drop excessively. See it all the time in hvac where the contactor pads have burned up from arching. Or have ants in them! 

[69 Merc]

Just like any relay or contactor, the contactor pads go bad. Causing the voltage across them to drop excessively. See it all the time in hvac where the contactor pads have burned up from arching. Or have ants in them! 

Where does the voltage drop to?  As in the current has to go thru a high resistance area and the "power" gets dissipated in the form of heat instead of powering my starter motor to start the Merc up?