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Author Topic: Quartehorse tuning help newbie  (Read 30211 times)
cheese_05_70
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« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2011, 11:43:55 pm »

fidstang thats what I meant i will keep this one for now but start over on a new one and take baby steps and see how that goes i was thinking this after i tried to start it and it idles better on the stock tune. I was in a hurry earlier i had to meet the fiance at home depot.
 
This is what i will do to new tune. that way everyone knows what took place and were all on the same page. how i should of started in the first place sorry guy
Hi slope 30.23
low slope 32.82-36 ish see what works best.
breakpoint 2.1338  <-- Last injector tune item.. Function (Fuel - Injector Breakpoint)
 
 voltage offset

15.9375...0.4375
14.0000...0.5313
13.0000...0.6250
12.0000...0.7188
11.0000...0.8750
10.0000...1.0625
8.0000....   1.6563
6.0000....   3.2500
5.0000....   3.2500
4.0000....   3.2500
3.0000....   3.2500
0.0000....   3.2500
Thanks fid and bender
Maf transfer
16.000   1542.585
5.000   1542.585
4.800   1381.888
4.600   1233.865
4.400   1097.248
4.200   971.529
4.100   912.726
3.900   802.468
3.700   702.350
3.500   611.103
3.300   528.727
3.200   490.707
3.000   419.991
2.800   357.131
2.600   301.116
2.500   275.769
2.300   229.132
2.100   188.578
1.900   153.346
1.700   122.930
1.600   109.750
1.400   85.924
1.200   65.901
1.000   49.426
.800   36.245
.700   30.669
.500   21.291
.300   14.194
.100   9.125
.000   7.350

Cranking pw vs ect
65534   1.27
180   1.27
150   1.46
70   3.61
40   6.65
20   8.96
0   13.85
-20   24.54
-65536   24.54

Set idle to 725-750ish
Set TB to 75
Thanks david clafflin
Disable smog and canister purge

Im not real worried about rev limit right now but i would like to know the correct and safest way to use it?

This is what will be adjusted on this new tune now where do i need to go from there?

New tune attached im getting better.

Thanks
Colby

* A9LNew tune#1.BIN (56 KB - downloaded 167 times.)
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88 4 cyl converted to 306, 9:1 compression, cleaned up Windsor sr heads 64cc chamber, nx274 cam installed on 109cl, comp 851 lifters, ultra gold roller rockers, ported typhoon intake, 75mm Tb, 30lb injectors, 80mm pro m maf, hooker shorty 1.625 headers, 2.5 h pipe into 2.5 flowmasters out the back, t5 trans, aluminum driveshaft, 8.8 3.73 gears, Subframes to be installed this weekend.
cheese_05_70
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« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2011, 03:53:55 pm »

Took it for a ride on new tune it at least idled cold i think some of it is i need to do the idle reset to get the base whewre it needs to be then command the idle i want. So idle was a little choppy. It was raining so not a good time to play but it runs better than what it did from the buttometer. 


I got code 15, 33, and 66 showing up. I think the 66 is fan wash on my MAF. Unless it could be from having such a large meter?

I took a couple logs but they probably arent much help cause i was in and out of the throttle a lot. 
My timing seems high it would run at about 38 at cruising throttle.Let me know what i should adjust im going to figure out and fix my codes. Also might just be the nature of it but it likes to but at low rpms below 1500 and when changing gears.

I attached datalog anyways dont know if its much help its long but from ET102 on i was in third gear and gradually got in it with out spinning. at 111 I let off throttle and maf v were practically nothing.

what should i be datalogging i just checked everything that i thought has something to do with engine. I unchecked a few that were zero or all 1. Also when i get wideband hooked up does it automatially put it in the data log?

Let me know
Thanks

* 2011_Nov_22_14-23-44.csv (581.62 KB - downloaded 157 times.)
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88 4 cyl converted to 306, 9:1 compression, cleaned up Windsor sr heads 64cc chamber, nx274 cam installed on 109cl, comp 851 lifters, ultra gold roller rockers, ported typhoon intake, 75mm Tb, 30lb injectors, 80mm pro m maf, hooker shorty 1.625 headers, 2.5 h pipe into 2.5 flowmasters out the back, t5 trans, aluminum driveshaft, 8.8 3.73 gears, Subframes to be installed this weekend.
fidstang
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« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2011, 05:02:13 pm »

Rule 1:
Never beat on an engine when it is not up to operating temps, the oil is cold and will not protect your engine properly. Also, data logging when you are not at a stable ECT places many variables in the pictures.

Rule 2:
Never beat on an engine when you do not know if the tune is correct. Without a wideband installed, it will be very hard to know if you are lean because the car goes into open loop and the LAMBSE's will read what the table cell value is at that load and rpm.

Rule 3:
Before tuning idle, your TPS and idle rpm must be set correctly first. Your cam is very similar to mine and will like to idle around 800-900rpm to maintain good vacuum.

I would highly recommend you follow the base idle reset guide. In my case I set it to idle at 800rpm with the IAC disconnected and set my TPS to .96volts because I like to maintain vacuum for my power brakes and at 800rpm I am still pulling 10" of mercury.
Then get that wide band hooked up before anymore WOT runs.

Let us know when you get the base idle reset procedure completed. Post a log of just your car at idle with and without the IAC plugged in. Don't forget to let the car warm up completely before doing anything.

As for the timing being high at low loads, SBF's like a lot of timing at cruising loads. Mine sees 40-41 at 20-30% loads at cruise. No issues there.
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85_GT
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« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2011, 05:17:19 pm »

I found adding the ISCKAM's and ipsibr to the dashboard payload a quicker way if dialing in idle air.  Doesn't take into account the ISC tranfer function, but gets the idle pretty spot on for up to 700 RPM I've needed.

You just adjust the throttle body air until the KAM's are about zero and ipsibr stops moving in either direction.
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
cheese_05_70
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« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2011, 08:31:40 pm »

I knew about rule one but i thought as long as the engine was "warmed up" that it was ok. I know it wasnt to operating temp. I obiviously couldnt beat on it too hard with the rain but still not an excuse beacause i relize you are just looking out for my engine. Thanks wont do it ever again.

Rule 2 crossed my mind but since it was just a mildly modifidied stock tune I figured it would be alright. I dont have a WB yet plus its parked for the winter. So i wont be driving it.

Rule three I wasnt going to do anything else to the idle until i get the base idle and tps set for sure.

Im fairly sure thats what the idle is set at now 800 iac disconnected and spout pulled and tps 0.95 now i thought it should be more around <700.  I will set it exactly how the article says to from this site.

Ok i will do i will double check the base idle and post a datalog of idle with it disconnected and with it plugged in.

So timing at cruise isnt that high; good its just stock but wasnt sure.
 What voltage does tps need to trigger WOT i thought it was over 4v?

Ok i added them to datalog and that throttle air your talking about is ITHBMA correct?
I can set idle without a WB right?

Also is my code 66 from fan wash or is it just because it is and 80mm and not much air moving through at idle?

Isnt there a way to clear codes through QH too?

Thanks guys for your help and looking out for me.
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88 4 cyl converted to 306, 9:1 compression, cleaned up Windsor sr heads 64cc chamber, nx274 cam installed on 109cl, comp 851 lifters, ultra gold roller rockers, ported typhoon intake, 75mm Tb, 30lb injectors, 80mm pro m maf, hooker shorty 1.625 headers, 2.5 h pipe into 2.5 flowmasters out the back, t5 trans, aluminum driveshaft, 8.8 3.73 gears, Subframes to be installed this weekend.
85_GT
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« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2011, 10:21:36 pm »


Ok i added them to datalog and that throttle air your talking about is ITHBMA correct?
I can set idle without a WB right?

Also is my code 66 from fan wash or is it just because it is and 80mm and not much air moving through at idle?

Isnt there a way to clear codes through QH too?

Thanks guys for your help and looking out for me.
Yes, don't need WB for getting idle air set. 
Besides just logging them by selecting them in the datalog tab, I meant I add them to my dashboard tab as another readout and watch them 'live'.  Then I just go in and adjust ITHBMA so they start zeroing in.  If an ISCKAM clips (stock is +- .400), you'll drop out of idle control.  I just use ISCKAM0 and 2 so I see what's happening in drive and neutral.  The other two are for when a/c is on.  Those can be tuned afterwards if you have a/c.  Don't need the drive one if it's a stick.

66 means you maf voltage is lower then expected.  Not sure what the curve of a 80mm pro M is.  EA just has a pro m 30 which should still have enough voltage at idle air.  Any air getting in unmetered? Open breather?  Watch you MAFV in the dashboard when it's idling.  It might be occurring if the idle is hunting up and down.  You can adjust the clip value VMAMIN to the lowest value in your maf curve.
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
85_GT
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« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2011, 10:24:45 pm »

Ah, just saw your curve further up.  I would think idle air would be above the stock VMAMIN of .375.  If it dips below that, you'll get a 66.
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
85_GT
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« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2011, 01:12:15 pm »

To make it a little easier, I attached my dashboard.  It has the ISCKAMS and ipsibr.  It also corrects the OL indicator which doesn't work correctly out of the box.

Just rename yours to .bak and insert this one into your C:\Program Files\BinaryEditor\Config\Dashboard\Dashboard0.DSH directory

Unzip first

* Dashboard0.zip (1.73 KB - downloaded 161 times.)
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
cheese_05_70
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« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2011, 12:49:27 am »

Thanks for the dashboard. If you would can you explain how you modified it? and how u fixed OL indicator just trying to learn all i can. Hopefully tommorrow i can do a base idle reset and get see what the idle and MAF are doing. I'm going to make a sheild for my MAF meter to keep from fan washing.   No umetered air that i know of pcv is hooked up and no leaks but i will check it out too.


Under TP in the dashboard is a blank cell that says TS when u click on it. Whats it for and whats it do?
Thanks
Colby
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88 4 cyl converted to 306, 9:1 compression, cleaned up Windsor sr heads 64cc chamber, nx274 cam installed on 109cl, comp 851 lifters, ultra gold roller rockers, ported typhoon intake, 75mm Tb, 30lb injectors, 80mm pro m maf, hooker shorty 1.625 headers, 2.5 h pipe into 2.5 flowmasters out the back, t5 trans, aluminum driveshaft, 8.8 3.73 gears, Subframes to be installed this weekend.
85_GT
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« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2011, 02:21:38 am »

Thanks for the dashboard. If you would can you explain how you modified it? and how u fixed OL indicator just trying to learn all i can. Hopefully tommorrow i can do a base idle reset and get see what the idle and MAF are doing. I'm going to make a sheild for my MAF meter to keep from fan washing.   No umetered air that i know of pcv is hooked up and no leaks but i will check it out too.


Under TP in the dashboard is a blank cell that says TS when u click on it. Whats it for and whats it do?
Thanks
Colby
TS is throttle state.  That's another one I needed to correct.  It can be 3 different values: -1, 0, 1.  -1 means the ecu considers it at closed throttle and displays CT, basically foot off the gas.  0 means partial throttle PT, everything between CT and the last one WOT.

If you right click in the dashboard, if you unselect 'lock dashboard'  then you can move things around, resize, etc.  although it's a bit tricky till you get the hang of it.  But you can add things to, either analog gauges, digital, indicators etc.  Whatever you add, you need to then pick a payload item for it be fed by. 

In the case of flag bits, such as OL, open loop, you then need to pick what you want displayed for each possible bit condition, 0 or 1.  Forget what the factory was exactly, but if either had the CL or OL backwards and the color too I believe.  So I corrected so 1= OL and  red, 0=CL and display green.

So if there is anything you want else monitored 'live', you would just do an add.  You can then save and load different dashboards also with a focus on what you may be tuning.  Mine has enough of what I need and big enough that I can glance at it as needed. 

Another nice feature it the trace function.  It puts a yellow dot in the active at the moment cells in the tables and functions.  So, say you hear a little pinging at times but not sure what to mod.  You can look and see what cell you're in at that moment then go fix it.  Like say you hear ping at the 1500RPM column, but only at a load of say 50.  You go in a pull a few degrees out of that cell.  Then listen for more.
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
cheese_05_70
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« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2011, 10:58:30 am »

Thanks 85GT that helps alot. I unlocked it last night after i posted didnt change anything just looked at some things. Now I know what I have to do if i want add something though.

The trace function is the yellow dot on the tables and it will only show up on the tables currently being usedf by the EEC. Just making sure i understand correctly.

Really this stuff isnt that hard it is just complicated and worded technical. For a person just getting started you dont want to adjust the wrong thing. So i always second guess and double check when I really dont need too.

For datalogging the flags are sensors not working properly correct? I got them all turned on to make sure nothing is haywire.

Thanks
Colby
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88 4 cyl converted to 306, 9:1 compression, cleaned up Windsor sr heads 64cc chamber, nx274 cam installed on 109cl, comp 851 lifters, ultra gold roller rockers, ported typhoon intake, 75mm Tb, 30lb injectors, 80mm pro m maf, hooker shorty 1.625 headers, 2.5 h pipe into 2.5 flowmasters out the back, t5 trans, aluminum driveshaft, 8.8 3.73 gears, Subframes to be installed this weekend.
85_GT
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« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2011, 11:34:52 am »

Having played with carburetors for years, yes this is way easier.  Not hard at all.  Just like you said, you need to learn the lingo.  There's lots of good info available on all the values, tables, etc.  But on the tool itself, not so much.  You kinda pick it up on your own and/or ask questions.

Flags are not just bad sensors.  In fact, they are hardly that. They are yes/no indicators of lots of things going on the ecu that isn't a sensor.  Such as, if ac on or off, in drive or neutral, in closed loop or not, the hegos are at operating temp, etc.

'bad' sensors are just ones whose values our higher or lower then the values set in the scalar section.

I found the yellow trace dot shows up even in tables that aren't maybe in effect too. Like say, base, sealevel and altitude timing tables will all show for me as I still have all 3 in effect.  Even though I should be off base, it still shows.  But as you start to understand, you know which to look at.

Now get out there and start playing and have fun with this stuff Smiley
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
cheese_05_70
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« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2011, 01:51:07 pm »

Not trying to be dumb just want to have correct procedure.

Does base idle reset have to be done with the engine to operating temp?

To set isc's does it need to be to operating temp or cold?

Cold I get surging with iac disconnected.

Thanks
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88 4 cyl converted to 306, 9:1 compression, cleaned up Windsor sr heads 64cc chamber, nx274 cam installed on 109cl, comp 851 lifters, ultra gold roller rockers, ported typhoon intake, 75mm Tb, 30lb injectors, 80mm pro m maf, hooker shorty 1.625 headers, 2.5 h pipe into 2.5 flowmasters out the back, t5 trans, aluminum driveshaft, 8.8 3.73 gears, Subframes to be installed this weekend.
cheese_05_70
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« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2011, 06:09:59 pm »

Heres is a log at idle at operating temp. About midway through i unplugged IAC and then plugged it back in at the end.

My ISCkams dont move. I would like to see my idle more stable than this.

How do you guys look at these logs through EA?

Thanks

* 2011_Nov_29_16-52-25.csv (660.65 KB - downloaded 171 times.)
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88 4 cyl converted to 306, 9:1 compression, cleaned up Windsor sr heads 64cc chamber, nx274 cam installed on 109cl, comp 851 lifters, ultra gold roller rockers, ported typhoon intake, 75mm Tb, 30lb injectors, 80mm pro m maf, hooker shorty 1.625 headers, 2.5 h pipe into 2.5 flowmasters out the back, t5 trans, aluminum driveshaft, 8.8 3.73 gears, Subframes to be installed this weekend.
fidstang
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« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2011, 09:35:06 pm »

Not trying to be dumb just want to have correct procedure.

Does base idle reset have to be done with the engine to operating temp?

To set isc's does it need to be to operating temp or cold?

Cold I get surging with iac disconnected.

Thanks

everything should be done with the engine at operating temps (i.e. warm). Get your idle set, then we will worry about setting the isc's. If your idle is hunting after it is at operating temps, you will need to look at your logs to determine what is happening. It maybe that you are getting to much fuel and the spark is increasing to correct the condition.

I would suggest locking out the idle timing to 20* by setting the global spark scalar to 20 and spark multiplier scalar to 0. That will force your spark to be locked out at 20*btdc.
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Spend time with your family to, not just your car.

"The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher states. The great teacher inspires."-- William Author Ward
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