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Author Topic: Quartehorse tuning help newbie  (Read 28809 times)
cheese_05_70
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« on: November 20, 2011, 11:52:46 am »

I emailed Cgrey to become a member at <eectuning.org> Im just getting started with this stuff so please bear with me if i have a lot of questions. I dont have everything yet, but i do have BE and QH i still need EA and WB.

First question: why do the tables only got to 4k rpm?
I want to get familiar with how it works and make a base tune in the process.

What i have done so far: i changed the injector timing with the worksheet for david clafflin, i changed injector slopes, i turned off thermoactor and canister purge, adjusted rev limit, and simplified the timing tables through the article on eectuning. If i understand right, i should only be running off of sea level tables.

I need a MAF transfer for a pro-m 80mm MAF. EA has some templates but only supplies the injector size.

Does anyone have one i can use? or point me where to get one?

What else do i need to adjust for a base tune? Any help is greatly appreciated.

I attached the tune, thank you.

* A9LNov202011.BIN (56 KB - downloaded 188 times.)
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88 4 cyl converted to 306, 9:1 compression, cleaned up Windsor sr heads 64cc chamber, nx274 cam installed on 109cl, comp 851 lifters, ultra gold roller rockers, ported typhoon intake, 75mm Tb, 30lb injectors, 80mm pro m maf, hooker shorty 1.625 headers, 2.5 h pipe into 2.5 flowmasters out the back, t5 trans, aluminum driveshaft, 8.8 3.73 gears, Subframes to be installed this weekend.
liljoe07
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2011, 12:08:36 pm »

You are going to have to scale the rpm and load tables. Look under scalars in BE. You should see a choice that mentions scaling. This will let you stretch out the rpm rows, and load columns for more control.
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347- Canfield 195's, Holley Systemax II, Jones Cam, 3" Exhaust, 3" Spintechs, QuarterHorse, BE/EA

Well since you friggin disagree with every damn suggestion, just rebuild the piece of shit.
cheese_05_70
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2011, 12:51:50 pm »

Thanks for the reply liljoe i looked in the scalars and cant find it tho. I found a MAF transfer and finally got it to load is there a way to copy and paste numbers into the whole tables? I know if u have a table u can just drag and drop it but i found just the numbers no table.

Is there a wayt to disable the a/c in the computer? mines is not hooked up so it probably doesnt matter but if i can disable i want to.

Thanks for the help.
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88 4 cyl converted to 306, 9:1 compression, cleaned up Windsor sr heads 64cc chamber, nx274 cam installed on 109cl, comp 851 lifters, ultra gold roller rockers, ported typhoon intake, 75mm Tb, 30lb injectors, 80mm pro m maf, hooker shorty 1.625 headers, 2.5 h pipe into 2.5 flowmasters out the back, t5 trans, aluminum driveshaft, 8.8 3.73 gears, Subframes to be installed this weekend.
fidstang
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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2011, 12:58:23 pm »

The table ending at 4000rpm means that any rpm above this point uses the same value in the cell.

Same with the load, you'll see a max (oem setting) of 80(%), anything at or above this gets the same value.

Examp:

if you are at 60% load and 5000rpm, you will use the the cell for 60% load and 4000rpm.

As stated you can go into the function tab (if using BE) and go to the system functions and rescale the tables for your application.

As for the MAF, you can use the ones supplied from EA and copy them into BE or use the import export functions in EA and BE.

 Either way, you have the known injector settings so you can just force open loop and build your own MAF transfer like I did. Before doing anything, make sure your idle and tps have been set correctly. Unplug your IAC so you can start with the idle MAF voltages (0v - 0.8v) and log your maf voltage and maf kg/hr at idle. Take the logged data and enter them into the MAF transfer for the specific voltages you see at idle. Then start a data log again and raise you idle by the set screw to 1500rpm for 30secs, then adjust it to 2000rpm for 30secs, then adjust it to 2500rpm for 30secs, and finally to 3000rpm for 30secs. Now you have data values for the major normal driving conditions, enter those values into the maf transfer.

Now to get the final voltage flow values you look at the difference between your old values and the new ones. In EA or using a calculator, increase the remaining values by that difference and go for a drive. Go WOT in 4th gear at low rpms and make sure you are not lean, then do a quick blast in second or first gear while monitoring your AFR to make sure you don't run lean. Adjust as needed. Now you have a MAF transfer for "your" setup and not a flow bench.
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fidstang
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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2011, 01:00:56 pm »

Obviously, don't forget to note the original tps value and restore it to that value when you completed the set screw adjustments for normal driving conditions. *Before the drive*
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bender460
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2011, 01:23:17 pm »

  Your rev limiter settings are not right. For an A9L stock tune the rev limiter is actually MINPIP8... So set it to 7500rpm then all your other settings will be valid. +/- 7500 rpm will the limit of the ECU.  For all my stuff I just max out every thing rpm limiting and use my MSD to control rpm limits. Never really liked the idea of fuel being cut.

   Also I'm on the fence about your WOT timing. Having it go off of the regular timing tables is just fine BUT you better be sure your load scaling is at least close. I would eliminate all WOT timing adders...Set them all to 1... And set WOT timing to whatever you like. That way there really is no way for error. You could revisit it later.

   You about 1/4 the way there on your injector settings also.

   What size injector is your MAF calibrated for?? This will lead you to the right transfer curve.

 
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92lx
pump gas, N.A. 347
TFS highprts, CI TLSR,
super vic,  4500 TB
MS3X EFI
Ultimate 5400rpm 8" converter C4
Full Team Z front and rear
10.90 at 124......D.A. 6500'
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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2011, 01:45:22 pm »

You've modified the table for spark-adder-egr, yet your scalar is set for a sonic system. Do you have your EGR system?

You should also give us the details of everything you've changed or has been changed with your engine.
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Spend time with your family to, not just your car.

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David Claflin
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2011, 06:38:57 pm »

Do this in the scalars
Set your TB airflow to 75, just a ballpark to get you started
Set Idle RPM  in neutral to 750, you'll need to set idle at the TB with IAB disconnected to 625

EEC analyzer has the base 30 pound MAF curve, injector breakpoint that injector offset that will get you going, then do some datalogs and see how it looks.
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1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
cheese_05_70
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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2011, 07:47:48 pm »

Thanks guys.

Fidistang: my mods are in my sig but you might be posting from your phone so here they are

88 4 cyl converted to 306, 9:1 compression, cleaned up Windsor sr heads 64cc chamber, nx274 cam installed on 109cl, comp 851 lifters, ultra gold roller rockers, ported typhoon intake, 75mm Tb, 30lb injectors, 80mm pro m maf, hooker shorty 1.625 headers, 2.5 h pipe into 2.5 flowmasters out the back, t5 trans, aluminum driveshaft, 8.8 3.73 gears, Subframes.

If it is no big deal about the rpms in the tables i will leave them cause i still couldnt find it.
I found a MAF transfer on eectuning and it was the same as EA so i used that. Thanks for posting how to make one cause i might make one when i get there.

Bender: On th rev limiter i will do i was just reading the captions and adjusting. i dont like the idea on fuel cutting but that is my only way. i dont plan on hiting it at all but you know how that goes shit happens. MAF is for 30lber i got a curve off of EA. what still needs to be adjusted if the injectors are only 1/4 way there?

I was just following the guide on eectuning on timing tables i ddint adjust anything. just disable altitude and a couple other things like it said. So how would you set it up? leave it stock? i can start over if need be.

Fidistang: I dont know how the scalar got set to sonic system? and i dont really know what u mean. yes i still have EGR. to fix things i need step by step how to do it cause i have trouble fiding things.

David: thanks for the pointers on the adjustments i will do them and repost the tune see if i did it right. i got a curve now. Are you saying that the breakpoint and offset is ok for now?

Thanks guys I'm feeling really dumb cause i try to find things but its not worded the same as it is in BE and i dont want to mess shit up.
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88 4 cyl converted to 306, 9:1 compression, cleaned up Windsor sr heads 64cc chamber, nx274 cam installed on 109cl, comp 851 lifters, ultra gold roller rockers, ported typhoon intake, 75mm Tb, 30lb injectors, 80mm pro m maf, hooker shorty 1.625 headers, 2.5 h pipe into 2.5 flowmasters out the back, t5 trans, aluminum driveshaft, 8.8 3.73 gears, Subframes to be installed this weekend.
David Claflin
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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2011, 07:51:37 pm »

When you make a tune save it with a different name as your previous, Mine are like 90LX2, then 3, always saving it with a different number so I can revert to the previous if I want to. I also keep a log with changes as  I go along, like a diary if you will so I can refer back to that also.
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1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
cheese_05_70
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« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2011, 08:01:54 pm »

David: i had plans on doing that after i get my base tune figured out. Someone on eectung suggested that so i had plans on it. Im assuming on TB you mean .75 cause stock was 0.55.Are my timing tables fucked up? What else should i adjust? What should i all datalog too? does it automatically datalog when latop is plugged in with engine running?
 well here is the tune.

* A9LNov202011.BIN (56 KB - downloaded 162 times.)
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88 4 cyl converted to 306, 9:1 compression, cleaned up Windsor sr heads 64cc chamber, nx274 cam installed on 109cl, comp 851 lifters, ultra gold roller rockers, ported typhoon intake, 75mm Tb, 30lb injectors, 80mm pro m maf, hooker shorty 1.625 headers, 2.5 h pipe into 2.5 flowmasters out the back, t5 trans, aluminum driveshaft, 8.8 3.73 gears, Subframes to be installed this weekend.
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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2011, 09:39:52 pm »

   On the injector settings..... During cranking the ecu isn't using the slopes.. So you need to pull fuel in the function ( Fuel - Cranking Pulsewidth vs Time ). Basically the difference between the stock 19lb injectors and the new 30lb. So ???? 0.633

   Also need to adjust function ( Fuel - Injector Offset vs Battery Voltage ).. This is fuel injector specific. An injectors open and close times will be different at different voltages.

 
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92lx
pump gas, N.A. 347
TFS highprts, CI TLSR,
super vic,  4500 TB
MS3X EFI
Ultimate 5400rpm 8" converter C4
Full Team Z front and rear
10.90 at 124......D.A. 6500'
cheese_05_70
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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2011, 10:29:16 pm »

Cranking pulsewidth was 1.00 in the whole table so i reduced it to 0.633 in all values. How do i know what to adjust the injector offset by? do i reduce it by 0.633 the difference in injectors?

Also mnpip is cutting spark correct? well can i cut fuel then spark right after or can i cut them at the same time? I know msd boxes will become unstable a few hundred rpms before the pill sometimes. i thought the stock rev limit was 6250? mnpip says its 6500. I want the car to be able to go to 6500 if it keeps pulling that high which it should. how woud u adjust it.

Could you explain more about the load scaling that you were talking about on my timing. how would i know if it is correct or not?  basically get rid of the wot addere and command where the timing will be at wot. where do i command wot timing? How would you set it up?
Disabling Z_wspksw disables wot spark adder correct not doubting just trying to understand and clarify. Would spuclp be the command your talking about for wot max timing?

Thanks i know progress is slow but i am finding things easier.
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88 4 cyl converted to 306, 9:1 compression, cleaned up Windsor sr heads 64cc chamber, nx274 cam installed on 109cl, comp 851 lifters, ultra gold roller rockers, ported typhoon intake, 75mm Tb, 30lb injectors, 80mm pro m maf, hooker shorty 1.625 headers, 2.5 h pipe into 2.5 flowmasters out the back, t5 trans, aluminum driveshaft, 8.8 3.73 gears, Subframes to be installed this weekend.
85_GT
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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2011, 10:51:48 pm »

Wrong cranking pw function.  You want the one right above it. Cranking vs ect.

Injector offset vs batt.  That's the toughest one for me.  Ideally, you want to have a common injector with the spec values.  You don't just multiply.  It depends on the injector. Newer 30's actually have larger values then the older style 30s.
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
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« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2011, 10:56:15 pm »

Injector offset has the most effect at low pw's.  It's less of an effect at WOT pulse widths.  With 30's, if you're wrong by .5ms that works out to about .5 AFR difference if I remember right.  At low load, the same wrong can swing AFR by about 2.
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85GT, Dart Windsor Jr, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm Slot, 34lbs injectors, 1 5/8" shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 3.25 9"
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse with LC-1
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