Moates Quarterhorse (QH) users, or soon to be users

[Guest]

[David Claflin]

Thought I'd throw some links up that helped me get mine going. I had some issues at first with the USB drivers in mine that was giving me fits, but got it worked out. Car runs better, crisper is how I would term it, even though the parameters are all the same as what I had loaded in the EEC TUner.

This has info about installing the QH
http://www.moates.net/quarterhorse/qh_intro_meyer.doc

This has info about the FTDI drivers and old driver scrub
http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14110&p=69105&hilit=FTDI#p69105

Craig Moates is a pretty stand up guy
http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14529

Feel free to post up any other helpful info you come across

[vristang]

All QH's should be shipped with ferrite USB cables now, but if you don't have ferrite beads on your USB it could start cutting out on you...
http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14152&hilit=QH+ferrite


I can't wait to hook mine up, but I have other issues that need to be fixed first.

Good stuff David!

[8950lx]

Soon-to-be user here. I gotta say the very first link helped me out a lot as far as understanding the "how to's" and seeing what all the terms mean. I liked that he put pictures with the article. Gotta go and read the other stuff.

Thanks for the links, doods!

[David Claflin]

All QH's should be shipped with ferrite USB cables now, but if you don't have ferrite beads on your USB it could start cutting out on you...
http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14152&hilit=QH+ferrite


I can't wait to hook mine up, but I have other issues that need to be fixed first.

Good stuff David!

Mine didn't have beads on it and Craig said the first few didn't, but had some sort of heavy duty cable that didn't need the beads, then a vendor changed something so now some of them need beads. I datalogged with mine yesterday, even had the wideband hooked up and running to the laptop so it was pulling that info from the wideband at the same time.

Also to clarify in my original post the driver issue was with my laptop, no issues with the QH at all.

[nitrotim]

All QH's should be shipped with ferrite USB cables now, but if you don't have ferrite beads on your USB it could start cutting out on you...
http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14152&hilit=QH+ferrite


I can't wait to hook mine up, but I have other issues that need to be fixed first.

Good stuff David!

Mine didn't have beads on it and Craig said the first few didn't, but had some sort of heavy duty cable that didn't need the beads, then a vendor changed something so now some of them need beads. I datalogged with mine yesterday, even had the wideband hooked up and running to the laptop so it was pulling that info from the wideband at the same time.

Also to clarify in my original post the driver issue was with my laptop, no issues with the QH at all.

David, so I am clear on this.  I am not happy with the chip I had burned for my motor and seriously considering pulling out and getting the quarter horse.  Will this be all I need to tune the A9L in my car? (I have a laptop of course). 

[Road Hammer]

David, so I am clear on this.  I am not happy with the chip I had burned for my motor and seriously considering pulling out and getting the quarter horse.  Will this be all I need to tune the A9L in my car? (I have a laptop of course). 

Great question Tim and I've got one more.

David, before buying the quarterhorse did you compare it against other tuning options? I know the Tweecer is out there but I've never seen a comparison of the two, I'm curious if one has advantage over the other in regards to features?

Thanks for the thread, lots-o-good info in here...

Mark B...

[vristang]

If you already have a laptop, then all you need is the Moates QH, a wideband O2 sensor, and licensed copy of Binary Editor.
EECAnalyzer would be nice as well.


The tweecer was a good piece of hardware, with mediocre software.
The QH is a great piece of hardware, with great software (if using BE, I don't know about other software...).

With the QH
Datalogging is faster, more datalogging channels are possible, Tuning changes can be made real time while the engine is running (tweecer makes you shut the car off)...
The only possible downside I see to the QH is the lack of multiple tunes.  You can install a switch, but I don't see the need for multiple tunes anyway.
The only time I used multiple tunes on the tweecer was so that I could try several things without an engine shut down... not necessary with real time capability of the QH

[nitrotim]

If you already have a laptop, then all you need is the Moates QH, a wideband O2 sensor, and licensed copy of Binary Editor.
EECAnalyzer would be nice as well.


The tweecer was a good piece of hardware, with mediocre software.
The QH is a great piece of hardware, with great software (if using BE, I don't know about other software...).

With the QH
Datalogging is faster, more datalogging channels are possible, Tuning changes can be made real time while the engine is running (tweecer makes you shut the car off)...
The only possible downside I see to the QH is the lack of multiple tunes.  You can install a switch, but I don't see the need for multiple tunes anyway.
The only time I used multiple tunes on the tweecer was so that I could try several things without an engine shut down... not necessary with real time capability of the QH

I have a zietronix 02/dataloggin system installed on my car will this work with the BE and EEC analyzer as well. I only have the o2 sensor being datalogged at this time.   Thanks for the help. Tim

[vristang]

Not 100%, as I have never looked into that sensor specifically....

But you should be able to setup an output signal, probably 0-5v or 0-1v or ???
That input can be read into BE via the EGR input (if the EGR has been deleted), or via an external setup from DATAQ.  http://www.dataq.com/data-acquisition-starter-kits/data-acquisition-starter-kits.htm
The DATAQ has a USB output, which would run to the laptop.  BE looks to have some setup options ready to go for the DATAQ...
Either way, you will want to datalog through the ecu/BE, as that will put ALL data channels in one file.


Not sure on the specifics, as my junk fell apart before I could hook up the WB.
Best bet would be to download BE, and dork around with it a little...

[David Claflin]

If you just buy a moates chip then you'll need a chip burner, but will not have datalogging capabilty. If you have a laptop and buy the QH, you can download a older version of bin editor for free and make a tune with that, I am not sure that that software supports datalogging. Bin Editor and EEC analyzer work hand in hand to datalog and develop changes that are needed for your tune based on the datalog. IT makes tuning easy for the beginner, you run the car, gatehring info in your datalog. You save the datlog in your hard drive, open EEC analyzer (EA) and have it open the datalog, then at each function or scalar EA will make recommended changes that you should make to the tune, make those changes in BE, load that tune to your car and try it out.
The old way was to pore over the datalogs looking at different instances and figuring changes from there, I never had the patience for that though, I can get work with it that way, but it is very time consuming, and I'm not that patient.

Bin Editor has the option of using either Data Q or Innovate LC-1. You can download both BE and EA and look at the things they offer and more importantly the help files are available when you download it, they are very helpful. CLint, the software developer, is also very helpful and if e-mailed asking about the compatibility he'll answer you promptly, even on the weekends. His customer service is almost onpar with Jays.

[nitrotim]

If you just buy a moates chip then you'll need a chip burner, but will not have datalogging capabilty. If you have a laptop and buy the QH, you can download a older version of bin editor for free and make a tune with that, I am not sure that that software supports datalogging. Bin Editor and EEC analyzer work hand in hand to datalog and develop changes that are needed for your tune based on the datalog. IT makes tuning easy for the beginner, you run the car, gatehring info in your datalog. You save the datlog in your hard drive, open EEC analyzer (EA) and have it open the datalog, then at each function or scalar EA will make recommended changes that you should make to the tune, make those changes in BE, load that tune to your car and try it out.
The old way was to pore over the datalogs looking at different instances and figuring changes from there, I never had the patience for that though, I can get work with it that way, but it is very time consuming, and I'm not that patient.




Bin Editor has the option of using either Data Q or Innovate LC-1. You can download both BE and EA and look at the things they offer and more importantly the help files are available when you download it, they are very helpful. CLint, the software developer, is also very helpful and if e-mailed asking about the compatibility he'll answer you promptly, even on the weekends. His customer service is almost onpar with Jays.

Thanks David, if I buy Qhorse I will definately buy the liscenses for BE and EA so I get the full program for each.  The only thing stopping me is confidence in myself but I aint the dullest knife in the kitchen so I should be able to figure things out... LOL

[garsten]

IT makes tuning easy for the beginner, you run the car, gatehring info in your datalog. You save the datlog in your hard drive, open EEC analyzer (EA) and have it open the datalog, then at each function or scalar EA will make recommended changes that you should make to the tune, make those changes in BE, load that tune to your car and try it out.

CLint, the software developer, is also very helpful and if e-mailed asking about the compatibility he'll answer you promptly, even on the weekends. His customer service is almost onpar with Jays.

David, i would just like to clarify a little on how i read your post...please excuse me if i misunderstood what you posted.

EA does not make recommended changes for each function or scalar.  they way i see it, EA has approx 8 - 10 useful tabs which do analyze data and make recommended changes to a tune.  most of the stuff clint offers in EA can be quite useful, other stuff i take with a grain of salt.  i have used the MAF transfer function tab quite a bit and believe it is done quite well.  the data log filter is also very useful  to weed out bogus data.  the mapping function is useful so you can see where the eec is pulling data from tables, but i do not believe it has an obvious tuning output.

I figure if i see datalogs with data within 5% of the set value, there is little or no reason to keep making changes.  how accurate is the data and how accurate are clint's calculation?

Clint's customer service is great, i am glad to have the tools he created.  binary editor has gotten huge, in my opinion. the amount of info he has pulled out of the binary files is overwhelming to say the least.  not having to use caledit/cal console is well worth the money for BE.

cheers, claude

[David Claflin]

David, i would just like to clarify a little on how i read your post...please excuse me if i misunderstood what you posted.

EA does not make recommended changes for each function or scalar.  they way i see it, EA has approx 8 - 10 useful tabs which do analyze data and make recommended changes to a tune.  most of the stuff clint offers in EA can be quite useful, other stuff i take with a grain of salt.  i have used the MAF transfer function tab quite a nbit and believe it is done quite well.  the data log filter is also very useful  to weed out bogus data.  the mapping function is useful so you can see where the eec is pulling data from tables, but i do not believe it has an obvious tuning output.

cheers, claude

Yes, I was not saying it will modify the tune for you, but one should know the base values for those items in your tune, MAF,slopes, injector breakpoint, injector timing and so on.
THen you can either go ahead with with what EA comes up with after analyzing the datalog or ignore it. I'm still learing things about it myself as I go along.

[rob342]

i want to buy a quarterhorse to play with. i'm a pretty good electronics nerd. i like arduino's. i can fix pretty much any computer or circuitboard, etc. BUT and that's a BIG BUTT- i dont hardly know shit about tuning a car. (but really, that's why i'm HERE) i'm a little nervous about experimenting with tuning, since i learned most of what i know about computers by breaking shit.

i have a few questions:

1- what else besides a $249 quarterhorse do i need to buy?

2- can anyone here help me learn?

3- will i be able to tune for better performance, and also for better MPG? -besides just trying to tune for speed, i'd like to F with things like EGR and anything else recommended in an attempt to increase MPG during those boring 75mph 2700rpm 4.10 gear highway trips.

4- if i have get this, can i use it to fix my previous bad decisions? namely: i bought a $219 76mm BBK MAF calibrated for 19lb injectors. i'd like to get ~30lb injectors and ditch the FMU that came with my powerdyne.

5- did i read it right above that i can keep my EGR functioning provided i buy some additional hardware mentioned in this post above:
>>
That input can be read into BE via the EGR input (if the EGR has been deleted), or via an external setup from DATAQ.  http://www.dataq.com/data-acquisition-starter-kits/data-acquisition-starter-kits.htm
The DATAQ has a USB output, which would run to the laptop.  BE looks to have some setup options ready to go for the DATAQ...
Either way, you will want to datalog through the ecu/BE, as that will put ALL data channels in one file.<<

6- if i go the route mentioned in question 5, will that hurt my ability to ask for help here, or cause any other problems?

7- any recommendation on a wideband that works good with this thing? i dont want to spend a fortune, but i dont want china junk either.


i'm all ears as to what you all recommend. i haven't gotten any faster yet, but i do have a better running car and i've already gone from 17.25 to 24.6 mpg by reading, using common sense, and changing a few things Joel helped me through.

[gtvert90]

You'll need Binary Editor to actually tune with the QH. I still haven't figured out Engine Analyzer but for a few bucks more you get them in a package.

2. There's quite a few people here that use the QH

3. No reason you can't tune and have better gas mileage.

4. You can change the MAF curve in the tune. Engine Analyzer has some curves built in that you can load up so you don't need to start from scratch.

5. You don't need to log the Wideband in the tune but I'm told it helps. (I'm still learning as I go as well.)

6. I was told with out wideband data logging it is harder to tune WOT but not impossible.

7. AEM and innovate MTX-L seem most popular on the low end.