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Author Topic: Stock head installed heights  (Read 15124 times)
juiced coupe
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« on: September 27, 2011, 06:20:45 pm »

Since we get these questions every month or so, I decided to put this information together. There are some slight differences in valve tip length between GT40, GT40P and E7s (and others), but they are still close.

EDIT: To my knowledge, GT40 exhaust tips are supposed to be about 0.014" longer than E7 and P heads, so installed height should be approximately that much shorter. The measurements on the GT40 heads mentioned in the second post seem to support this.

All of these pics and measurements are from a E7TE head. From left to right, the first 3 are stock valves while the last one has 289 valves. All measurements are approximate (used a machinists rule).

- First one is the stock arrangement with retainers and rotators. In: 1.75", Ex: 1.6"

- Second one uses two intake retainers. In: 1.75", Ex: 1.65"

There are two pics of the last two cylinders. They are 289 retainers and a set of aftermarket retainers swapped between the two.
- Stock valves with 289 retainers. In: 1.8", Ex: 1.73"

- Stock valves with aftermarket retainers (+ .100", I think). In: 1.9", Ex: 1.83"

- 289 valves with 289 retainers. In and Ex: 1.63-1.65"

- 289 valves with aftermarket retainers. In and Ex: 1.73-1.75"

Valve lengths:

- Stock intake: 5.1" OAL, 4.7" to top of lock groove.

- Stock exhaust: 5.1" OAL, 4.6" to top of lock groove.

- 289 valves: 4.9" OAL, +/- 4.5" to top of lock groove.



* stock parts.JPG (251.16 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 1501 times.)

* 289.aft.JPG (272.45 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 1051 times.)

* aft,289.JPG (264.09 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 874 times.)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 02:19:09 am by juiced coupe » Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
juiced coupe
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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2011, 07:11:25 pm »

Some pics borrowed from other threads:

- First pic shows the difference in factory valve lock grooves

- Second pic shows a set of Ford Racing B-50 retainers. They use different heights for intake and exhaust.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6514-B50/

- The third pic shows a set of B-50 retainers installed on a set of GT40 heads. Owner got heights of: In: 1.84", Ex: 1.82".


* Valve lock grooves.jpg (79.68 KB, 599x449 - viewed 1403 times.)

* FR B-50 retainers.jpg (171.63 KB, 1000x750 - viewed 1105 times.)

* GT40 B-50.jpg (113.21 KB, 1000x750 - viewed 953 times.)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 11:06:53 pm by juiced coupe » Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
juiced coupe
Six figures worth of don't give a f*ck
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Posts: 8394


Location: Pascagoula, MS
The land mass between New Orleans and Mobile


« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2011, 07:25:33 pm »

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,15607.0.html

This thread shows pics of both the TFS and Crane spring kits.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-2500100/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-44308-1/

The TFS kit uses different retainers to obtain the correct heights, while Crane uses offset locks.

Its also worth noting that Crane uses a conical spring with a smaller OD retainer (see pic). If using stock rockers, the TFS and FR retainers may not provide enough radial clearance.

While the above link shows a broken Crane spring, I believe that may be more of the exception than the rule. Plenty of those Crane kits in service without problems.


* TFS,Crane.JPG (424.05 KB, 800x600 - viewed 935 times.)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 11:47:08 pm by juiced coupe » Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
juiced coupe
Six figures worth of don't give a f*ck
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Posts: 8394


Location: Pascagoula, MS
The land mass between New Orleans and Mobile


« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2012, 12:03:17 am »

Something to add to this. I came across a set of Chevy Vortec retainers. To my knowledge, the 350, 305, and 4.3 Vortecs all use the same retainers. These were on a '97 4.3.

With the stock valves, the installed heights were 1.75" on the intake and 1.65" on the exhaust. With offset locks and/or shims, getting the installed height at 1.7" would be easy. (On E7/P heads, GT40 heads would have slightly shorter exhaust heights)

As most people know, SBCs use springs that are ~1.25" OD while SBFs are ~1.45". A few companys sell conical springs that allow this combination to work, like these:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-16982-16/

At 1.7", these springs would have ~120# of seat pressure and provide sufficient coil bind clearance for cams in the .500-.530" area. Shim a little more for lower lift cams (stock, B cam, etc.). Seems about perfect for stock/stock-ish heads.

As with the Crane kit, these provide plenty of radial clearance for stock rockers.

This setup also has one really nice feature, weight. I don't have a postal scale, but can tell you that these retainers are noticeably lighter than any of the ones pictured above. Always a nice addition.


* E7 Vortec ret.JPG (202.37 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 919 times.)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 04:07:36 pm by juiced coupe » Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
bluebloodracing
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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2012, 11:58:27 pm »

Nice write up! helpful.
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if it were not for bad luck, i'd have none...
juiced coupe
Six figures worth of don't give a f*ck
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Location: Pascagoula, MS
The land mass between New Orleans and Mobile


« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2012, 01:18:12 pm »

Some more information to add to this.

Retainer weights:
Ford 2 piece intake -35g
Ford exhaust rotor -35g
66 289 (factory?) -27g
GM Vortec -15g
SSI aftermarket -28-29g

Retainer OD and pocket measurements:
2 piece intake -1.34/.96"
Exhaust rot -1.33/.96"
66 289 -1.44/.99"
Vortec -1.13/.87"
Aftermarket -1.47/1.06/.73"

Factory spring and seat(on head) measurements:
Spring -1.39/.99"
Spring boss - .97"
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 02:27:18 pm by juiced coupe » Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
juiced coupe
Six figures worth of don't give a f*ck
Global Moderator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8394


Location: Pascagoula, MS
The land mass between New Orleans and Mobile


« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2012, 03:56:46 pm »

Quick list of some other kits and components that are available:

Spring, retainer, and lock kits:

http://www.alexsparts.com/sb-ford-gt40-drop-in-valve-spring-kit-hyd-roller/

http://www.alexsparts.com/sb-ford-gt40-drop-in-valve-spring-kit-hyd-roller-10-degree-retainers-locks/

http://www.alexsparts.com/sb-ford-gt40p-drop-in-valve-spring-kit-hyd-roller/

http://www.alexsparts.com/sb-ford-gt40p-drop-in-valve-spring-kit-hyd-roller-10-degree-retainers-locks/

http://www.alexsparts.com/sb-ford-gt40p-max-output-drop-in-valve-spring-kit-hyd-roller/

Retainer and lock kit:

http://www.alexsparts.com/products/RETAINER-%26-LOCK-KIT-FOR-GT40P%2C-GT40-HEADS%2C-SBF.html

Offset locks. I only listed 7, but plenty of various 10, locks out there.

+.050"

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-31400444/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-93010/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-99095-1/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRO-86107X1-16/

http://www.competitionproducts.com/VTO-Forged-Steel-7-Degree-Valve-Locks-11_32-Valve-Stem/productinfo/CPX4134/

-.050"

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-99096-1/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRO-86107X2-16/

-.030"

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Heat-Treated-7-Degree-Valve-Locks-11_32-Stem-030/productinfo/4333/

+.040"

http://www.alexsparts.com/locks-keepers-hardened-11-32-x-7-degree-040-up-locks/

-.040"

http://www.alexsparts.com/products/LOCKS%2C-KEEPERS%2C-HARDENED-11%7B47%7D32%22-X-7-DEGREE%2C-.040%22--DOWN-LOCKS.html

-.070"

http://www.alexsparts.com/products/LOCKS%2C-KEEPERS%2C-HARDENED-11%7B47%7D32%22-X-7-DEGREE%2C-.070%22--DOWN-LOCKS.html

Spring shims that will clear factory spring boss:

http://www.alexsparts.com/products/SHIM-KIT%2C-STANDARD%2C-GT40P%2C-GT40%2C-351C%2C-BB-FORD%2C-FE-FORD-1.500%22-x-1.031%22.html

There are many other combinations of components out there. This was just a quick list off the top of my head.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 07:14:14 pm by juiced coupe » Logged

Doing more with less, or something like that.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,20009.0.html

Quote from: Monte Smith
Bottom line, if it was the hot ticket, the fast guys would do it.............they don't

You might need some Titanium rods and a flow bench!  LMAO on floor

I honestly don't get it.

I'm sweating, my heart is racing, my clutch foot is twichin', and my right arm punched the computer screen doing an involentary 2-3 shift while reading all that. 
bluebloodracing
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« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2012, 06:58:28 pm »

Nice! thanks for this info
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David Claflin
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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2013, 10:41:18 pm »

Here's some good info from a thread on corral
Originally Posted by tinman4708 
Here is a nice spring set up that I came up with that requires no machining or changing valves. Ran these with pedestal mount rockers and seen just under 6900 going through the traps.

CCA-26056-16 springs
CCA-705-16 steel retainer+.050
CCA-611-16 10* (intake)
CCA-614-16 10*+.050 (exhaust)

CCA-630-16 10*-.050 I got these just in case the intake needed them, ended up not but depending on how yours come out you might???

I also bought the "hardened" shims from Alex's Parts Sales

16- .060, .030 and .015

I set them up at 1.820 which will be 152 at the seat and the springs have a 400lb rate

http://forums.corral.net/forums/search.php?searchid=10469521&pp=40&page=4
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