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Author Topic: My stab at the big head/small engine build.  (Read 45810 times)
NIKwithoutaC
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« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2011, 09:13:51 pm »

Well, like it was said before, the intake lobe is actually listed as a Chevy LS lobe.  You might look into those.
I know, I was looking for smaller lobes then what you had with similar and higher lifts.

Ah, gotcha.
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One of those silly big head/small engine cars.  302ci, TEA Twisted Wedge 205s, TFS R intake, 97mm MAF meter, very mild custom cam.
liljoe07
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« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2011, 09:39:03 pm »

Kinda funny that the cam you had spec'd out, resembles the type of cam Jay does for the same type of combo combo. Mine for instance had the events at -3BTDC 39ABDC and 49BBDC -4ATDC  216 225 @.050 and .546 .552

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89 Coupe:
347- Canfield 195's, Holley Systemax II, Jones Cam, 3" Exhaust, 3" Spintechs, QuarterHorse, BE/EA

Well since you friggin disagree with every damn suggestion, just rebuild the piece of shit.
NIKwithoutaC
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« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2011, 06:59:21 am »

Kinda funny that the cam you had spec'd out, resembles the type of cam Jay does for the same type of combo combo. Mine for instance had the events at -3BTDC 39ABDC and 49BBDC -4ATDC  216 225 @.050 and .546 .552

When I started planning this build, I actually had intentions of having Jay grind my cam, but by the time I was actually ready to pull the trigger and empty my wallet, he had already stopped doing business after that big fiasco.
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One of those silly big head/small engine cars.  302ci, TEA Twisted Wedge 205s, TFS R intake, 97mm MAF meter, very mild custom cam.
David Claflin
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« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2011, 11:29:49 am »

Kinda funny that the cam you had spec'd out, resembles the type of cam Jay does for the same type of combo combo. Mine for instance had the events at -3BTDC 39ABDC and 49BBDC -4ATDC  216 225 @.050 and .546 .552
Didn't you have TW heads on a stock shortblock? I had ported Edelbrocks, on a 306, with a GT40 intake and longtubes
218 at .050 intake

227 at .050 exhaust

141 at .200 intake

149 at .200 exhaust

.362 lobe lift intake

.359 lobe lift exhaust

.580 lift on intake

.576 lift on exhaust

115.13 LSA

113.13 IC

117.12 EC

Intake Open .050 4 ATDC

Exhaust Open .050 50 BBDC

Intake Close  42 ABDC

Exhaust Close 3 ATDC
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1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
Joel5.0
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« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2011, 12:24:59 pm »

Kinda funny that the cam you had spec'd out, resembles the type of cam Jay does for the same type of combo combo. Mine for instance had the events at -3BTDC 39ABDC and 49BBDC -4ATDC  216 225 @.050 and .546 .552
Didn't you have TW heads on a stock shortblock? I had ported Edelbrocks, on a 306, with a GT40 intake and longtubes
218 at .050 intake

227 at .050 exhaust

141 at .200 intake

149 at .200 exhaust

.362 lobe lift intake

.359 lobe lift exhaust

.580 lift on intake

.576 lift on exhaust

115.13 LSA

113.13 IC

117.12 EC

Intake Open .050 4 ATDC

Exhaust Open .050 50 BBDC

Intake Close  42 ABDC

Exhaust Close 3 ATDC


Late opening and late closing when compared to some OTS stuff out there for ported Edelbrock's and GT40 intake........ Thinking Hard ...... ...... there's a lot of information in those events alone when you look at the components they were designed for + they also explain the gains when the setup benefited from the better intake and bigger TB ...... Taking notes
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
NIKwithoutaC
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« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2011, 01:24:28 pm »

Hmmmm....  Why do you suppose the late CLOSING?  Curious.
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One of those silly big head/small engine cars.  302ci, TEA Twisted Wedge 205s, TFS R intake, 97mm MAF meter, very mild custom cam.
FivePointOhh
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« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2011, 01:36:34 pm »

Hmmmm....  Why do you suppose the late CLOSING?  Curious.

because even after BDC the cylinder is still filling due to the inertia of the incoming intake charge...correct?
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89 fox coupe, mild 302 HCI
NIKwithoutaC
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« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2011, 01:47:45 pm »

Hmmmm....  Why do you suppose the late CLOSING?  Curious.

because even after BDC the cylinder is still filling due to the inertia of the incoming intake charge...correct?

Well, right.  Cams typically close the intake ABDC.  This one is just later than one might guess it to be.
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One of those silly big head/small engine cars.  302ci, TEA Twisted Wedge 205s, TFS R intake, 97mm MAF meter, very mild custom cam.
FivePointOhh
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« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2011, 01:52:11 pm »

Hmmmm....  Why do you suppose the late CLOSING?  Curious.

because even after BDC the cylinder is still filling due to the inertia of the incoming intake charge...correct?

Well, right.  Cams typically close the intake ABDC.  This one is just later than one might guess it to be.
what makes you say that? is that you saying it or the average gear head?
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89 fox coupe, mild 302 HCI
NIKwithoutaC
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« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2011, 02:04:53 pm »

Hmmmm....  Why do you suppose the late CLOSING?  Curious.

because even after BDC the cylinder is still filling due to the inertia of the incoming intake charge...correct?

Well, right.  Cams typically close the intake ABDC.  This one is just later than one might guess it to be.
what makes you say that? is that you saying it or the average gear head?

Both?  If you look at the specs above, it "closes" at 42 ABDC, whereas mine "closes" at 39.5.  His just closes later.
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One of those silly big head/small engine cars.  302ci, TEA Twisted Wedge 205s, TFS R intake, 97mm MAF meter, very mild custom cam.
Joel5.0
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« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2011, 06:27:58 pm »

Hmmmm....  Why do you suppose the late CLOSING?  Curious.

because even after BDC the cylinder is still filling due to the inertia of the incoming intake charge...correct?

Well, right.  Cams typically close the intake ABDC.  This one is just later than one might guess it to be.
what makes you say that? is that you saying it or the average gear head?

Both?  If you look at the specs above, it "closes" at 42 ABDC, whereas mine "closes" at 39.5.  His just closes later.

NIK.... look at the components in the combo. For your reference a X-303 or Stg 2 or XE270HR cam closes the intake at 39 ABDC and others with a higher intake duration are in the 40-42 ABDC range. Why would you you set/configure a small duration lobe to close later with those intake components installed? .... and no, it goes beyond the obvious physics answer, do not overlook the late intake opening.
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
David Claflin
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Location: Redneck Riviera (Ft Walton Beach Florida)

« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2011, 10:56:14 am »

Joel,

Do you think this should be broken off into it's own thread? I've found some other links about small cams and big heads, including those here.


http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,2245.msg51814.html#msg51814

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,30565.0.html

http://hardcore50.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=309642

http://hardcore50.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=48922

http://hardcore50.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=57508

http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/646936-big-head-small-cam-theories.html
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1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
liljoe07
"Gentleman Joe"
Adv_SBFTechie
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Location: Cartersville, GA
Feed your MILD side


« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2011, 02:27:00 pm »

Kinda funny that the cam you had spec'd out, resembles the type of cam Jay does for the same type of combo combo. Mine for instance had the events at -3BTDC 39ABDC and 49BBDC -4ATDC  216 225 @.050 and .546 .552
Didn't you have TW heads on a stock shortblock? I had ported Edelbrocks, on a 306, with a GT40 intake and longtubes
218 at .050 intake

227 at .050 exhaust

141 at .200 intake

149 at .200 exhaust

.362 lobe lift intake

.359 lobe lift exhaust

.580 lift on intake

.576 lift on exhaust

115.13 LSA

113.13 IC

117.12 EC

Intake Open .050 4 ATDC

Exhaust Open .050 50 BBDC

Intake Close  42 ABDC

Exhaust Close 3 ATDC


Nope David, I have Canfields.

So here is the full list of specs on my cam. With a correction to the intake lift since I typoed it.

           Intake        Exhaust
.006       266             275
.020       243             252
.050       216             225
.200       142             148

Lobe Lift .352            .345

Lobe Cent 111           116

open      -3BTDC        49BTDC
close       39ABDC       -4ATDC
Logged

89 Coupe:
347- Canfield 195's, Holley Systemax II, Jones Cam, 3" Exhaust, 3" Spintechs, QuarterHorse, BE/EA

Well since you friggin disagree with every damn suggestion, just rebuild the piece of shit.
NIKwithoutaC
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« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2011, 09:14:59 am »


MMM-mmm.  Love me some big head/small engine.  Good stuff.

Nope David, I have Canfields.

So here is the full list of specs on my cam. With a correction to the intake lift since I typoed it.

           Intake        Exhaust
.006       266             275
.020       243             252
.050       216             225
.200       142             148

Lobe Lift .352            .345

Lobe Cent 111           116

open      -3BTDC        49BTDC
close       39ABDC       -4ATDC

What kind of numbers do the Canfields post on the flow bench?
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One of those silly big head/small engine cars.  302ci, TEA Twisted Wedge 205s, TFS R intake, 97mm MAF meter, very mild custom cam.
liljoe07
"Gentleman Joe"
Adv_SBFTechie
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Location: Cartersville, GA
Feed your MILD side


« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2011, 10:22:40 am »

I believe Stan Weiss has numbers around 280cfm @ .600. Jays site had 275cfm @ .600.
Logged

89 Coupe:
347- Canfield 195's, Holley Systemax II, Jones Cam, 3" Exhaust, 3" Spintechs, QuarterHorse, BE/EA

Well since you friggin disagree with every damn suggestion, just rebuild the piece of shit.
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