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Author Topic: My stab at the big head/small engine build.  (Read 45870 times)
David Claflin
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« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2011, 10:48:16 am »

If you tune it yourself you can set initial timing apart from wide open throttle timing. If you advance timing 8 degrees to 18 initial, it is still only 34 total at WOT

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting.  I was not aware of this.  I was always under the impression that by altering the base timing, you were inadvertently altering total timing.
You do, if you set initial timing plus 8, you're setting WOT timing plus 8; unless you do the tune via quarterhorse. Then you can set initial plus 3 or 4, and WOT timing plus 9, like what I did on my son's 94 GT with iron heads. Just that change, and WOT fuel make some good improvements at the track, and he still knocks down 20MPG driving back and forth to school and work
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1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
68mustang405
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« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2011, 04:15:11 pm »

Joel thank you!  I've been trying to tell people that forever. They just don't listen. Whys it matter what the ports look like on the timing cover when the outlet port on the water pump is round?  Wonder, Ponder
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68 Mustang 310 twisted wedge 170, tfs1, weiand stealth, 1.6 rr t5 3.55s with a locker, a/c and all the creature comforts.

On a serious note.. wagon made 3000hp on the dyno
David Claflin
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Location: Redneck Riviera (Ft Walton Beach Florida)

« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2011, 06:44:34 pm »

Any idea when you're getting this to the dyno or track?
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1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
NIKwithoutaC
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« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2011, 11:00:10 am »

Just ordered a new helmet, should be in this week.  Car has just a touch over 400 miles on it since the rebuild, clutch calls for a 500 mile break in, but eh, close enough, right?  Haha.

Anyway, the soonest test and tune night that I'll probably make it to is next Wednesday, weather pending.

I have no idea when it will hit the dyno.  Sometime this summer probably.  I want to put a wideband A/F gauge in the car and do a little tweaking myself.  When the car goes to the dyno, it will be strictly for a power graph and bragging rights, NOT a dyno tune, I really want to do the tuning myself.  Grin
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One of those silly big head/small engine cars.  302ci, TEA Twisted Wedge 205s, TFS R intake, 97mm MAF meter, very mild custom cam.
David Claflin
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Location: Redneck Riviera (Ft Walton Beach Florida)

« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2011, 10:15:44 pm »

What are you going to tune it with? How's tha Abaco meter work for you?
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1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
NIKwithoutaC
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« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2011, 10:56:54 pm »

What are you going to tune it with? How's tha Abaco meter work for you?

For the time being, I'm just going to play with the Abaco software (lets you play with the MAF transfer curve), though I'll probably dive into a Moates Quarterhorse before next season.

The Abaco meter seems to be doing a good job so far.  I don't have any significant drivability issues, though the car has a funky intermittent starting issue, but I have a hunch that has to do with the 30lb injectors and lack of a true tune.

I actually had some reservations about running a 97mm meter on a NA 302.  I was worried the low airspeed through the meter would cause sampling issues, but the tech at Anderson Ford Motorsport didn't even hesitate to recommend the 97 over the 85mm unit.  He basically told me that if I had the room, run the 97.  The way these meters sample the air you can basically clock it any way you want, before or after a turn, whatever.  If air is moving through the tube, the meter will read it.  My impression was that the 85mm meter is more aimed for systems where it can be more of a stock drop-in unit.  The 97mm obviously requires a custom 4" inlet system.
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One of those silly big head/small engine cars.  302ci, TEA Twisted Wedge 205s, TFS R intake, 97mm MAF meter, very mild custom cam.
David Claflin
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Big Block
****
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Posts: 7907


Location: Redneck Riviera (Ft Walton Beach Florida)

« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2011, 08:42:25 am »

I have a pro-m 92MM on my 306 daily driver and have no issues, it uses 4" inlet tubing as well. It starts and runs every time, the MAF curve I loaded isn't far off from the Pro-M curve loaded in EEC analyzer, just a bit leaner through the low-mid range.
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1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
NIKwithoutaC
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« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2011, 09:07:00 am »

I have a pro-m 92MM on my 306 daily driver and have no issues, it uses 4" inlet tubing as well. It starts and runs every time, the MAF curve I loaded isn't far off from the Pro-M curve loaded in EEC analyzer, just a bit leaner through the low-mid range.

What size injectors are you running?  My car starts every time, but sometimes it cranks just a little too long before it catches for me to be comfortable with it.  Other times, it's like I turn the key, the engine rotates 10* and BLAM it's running.  It's weird.
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One of those silly big head/small engine cars.  302ci, TEA Twisted Wedge 205s, TFS R intake, 97mm MAF meter, very mild custom cam.
David Claflin
Adv_SBFTechie
Big Block
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7907


Location: Redneck Riviera (Ft Walton Beach Florida)

« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2011, 12:35:02 pm »

30's
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1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
90lxcoupe
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« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2011, 04:26:37 pm »

Just ordered a new helmet, should be in this week.  Car has just a touch over 400 miles on it since the rebuild, clutch calls for a 500 mile break in, but eh, close enough, right?  Haha.

Anyway, the soonest test and tune night that I'll probably make it to is next Wednesday, weather pending.

I have no idea when it will hit the dyno.  Sometime this summer probably.  I want to put a wideband A/F gauge in the car and do a little tweaking myself.  When the car goes to the dyno, it will be strictly for a power graph and bragging rights, NOT a dyno tune, I really want to do the tuning myself.  Grin
My car quit being a street drive for a few years.  I would have never gotten to 500 miles on the clutch.  pretty much had from the garage to the trailer & trailer to staging lanes.  I took a few passes to adjust & then I let it rip.
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David Claflin
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Location: Redneck Riviera (Ft Walton Beach Florida)

« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2011, 01:27:32 pm »

I've been looking at the different lobes on comps master list, so far the XFI lobes are the only ones I've seen that offer short duration and high lift. I'll have to spring for pipe max and use the EA program to see what I can come up with for the 306 for my GT.
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1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
93mustank
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« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2011, 02:20:26 pm »

Wait all this stuff and 3.73s with shorty exhaust junk? 
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68mustang405
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« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2011, 04:30:55 pm »

Just ordered a new helmet, should be in this week.  Car has just a touch over 400 miles on it since the rebuild, clutch calls for a 500 mile break in, but eh, close enough, right?  Haha.

Anyway, the soonest test and tune night that I'll probably make it to is next Wednesday, weather pending.

I have no idea when it will hit the dyno.  Sometime this summer probably.  I want to put a wideband A/F gauge in the car and do a little tweaking myself.  When the car goes to the dyno, it will be strictly for a power graph and bragging rights, NOT a dyno tune, I really want to do the tuning myself.  Grin
My car quit being a street drive for a few years.  I would have never gotten to 500 miles on the clutch.  pretty much had from the garage to the trailer & trailer to staging lanes.  I took a few passes to adjust & then I let it rip.

I was reading chevy performance or car craft or something under the write in columns and people were talking about the importance of wearing the clutch in because you're imbedding materials from the clutch into the flywheel to hold maxiumum power. If it get's to hot it'll glaze over. Kind the same concept with brake pads and bedding them in. At least that's what they were comparing them too. In a drag race it might not get hot enough to do any damage, but on the street i would bed it in completely.
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68 Mustang 310 twisted wedge 170, tfs1, weiand stealth, 1.6 rr t5 3.55s with a locker, a/c and all the creature comforts.

On a serious note.. wagon made 3000hp on the dyno
NIKwithoutaC
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« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2011, 05:00:29 pm »

I've been looking at the different lobes on comps master list, so far the XFI lobes are the only ones I've seen that offer short duration and high lift. I'll have to spring for pipe max and use the EA program to see what I can come up with for the 306 for my GT.

Well, like it was said before, the intake lobe is actually listed as a Chevy LS lobe.  You might look into those.

Wait all this stuff and 3.73s with shorty exhaust junk? 

Street car street car street car street car street car street car.   Grin  This thing regularly sees highway and cruising speeds above 65, and I have no desire to be spinning the engine any higher than what it is already on the highway.

As for the headers: 1. The shorties were just what I already had   2. I have no desire to deal with the "inconveniences" of long tubes and   3. The car will very very likely have a turbo and/or a 351-based bottom end in another year or two, making spending any money on long tubes right now a waste.

I was reading chevy performance or car craft or something under the write in columns and people were talking about the importance of wearing the clutch in because you're imbedding materials from the clutch into the flywheel to hold maxiumum power. If it get's to hot it'll glaze over. Kind the same concept with brake pads and bedding them in. At least that's what they were comparing them too. In a drag race it might not get hot enough to do any damage, but on the street i would bed it in completely.

 Wonder, Ponder
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One of those silly big head/small engine cars.  302ci, TEA Twisted Wedge 205s, TFS R intake, 97mm MAF meter, very mild custom cam.
David Claflin
Adv_SBFTechie
Big Block
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7907


Location: Redneck Riviera (Ft Walton Beach Florida)

« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2011, 06:07:24 pm »

Well, like it was said before, the intake lobe is actually listed as a Chevy LS lobe.  You might look into those.
I know, I was looking for smaller lobes then what you had with similar and higher lifts.
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1990 Red LX, 306, 80MM, ported gt40's, ported explorer upper accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.30's, 336/331
1985 LTD LX 347, 205 11R's, TFS-R, 90MMTB, MAC 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
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