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Author Topic: 1968 Mustang w/289-questions  (Read 5260 times)
gerg1962
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« on: May 30, 2011, 05:37:32 pm »

Hello,
I just joined the forum.
I obtained a 1968 Mustang with a 289 in a trade yesterday.

Two issues:

One, it makes a lot of racket seaming to come from the right cylinder bank.  I was thinking it was a bad lifter but am not certain.  Most likely something valve train related.  How can I pinpoint if it is a lifter or a rocker arm or something else?  I poured some STP in to see if it would quiet it down a bit, it did, but still very noticable.

If it is lifters would I be doing myself a disservice by just replacing the lifters without getting a new cam and other valve train parts?  I just want it to run quiet, perhaps I will rip it all down at some point in the future but just looking for a quick and cheap option at this juncture.


Number2, the exhaust manifold on the right side is cracked and I was wondering if aftermarket headers are a good replacement option?  I see that there are some reproduction cast iron factory type headers available.  Might those be a better way to go?

Ultimately I would like to totally restore the car and give it to my daughter when she gets her license.  Not really looking to build anything radical, just a slightly updated original. 

Any suggestions for a decent set of headers for not a huge amount of money?

I guess that is about it for now, thanks for the help!

Craig

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68mustang405
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« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2011, 05:55:05 pm »

Tri ys i've heard are pretty good, and not too expensive. A bunch of different companies make them, just the type of header, not a particular name brand. I've got heddman longtubes, they are ok, but depending if you wanna go longtube or shorties you might have to deal with powersteering. If you have that.

You say the right cylinder bank makes a ticking noise? AND you have a cracked header? i'd say it's just an exhaust leak and the tapping sound is coming through the crack. I had an exhaust leak up close to the head and sounded like a tapping lifter.

What's the oil pressure like? I'd recommend a good aftermarket gauge so you really know what's going on for at least oil pressure and water. My stock gauge shows low oil pressure when i have 60 psi of pressure! I

You can take the valve covers off and try to adjust the valve train a little bit. I did that and it quieted mine down, but i'm willing to bet it's the exhaust. Replace the headers first, make sure there's no exhaust leak, then if you have a ticking it's something else

BTW I'd recommend putting a transmission with an overdrive in it, either t5 5 speed or an aod. My mileage went up dramatically. Definitely a worthwhile mod even on a stock car.
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68 Mustang 310 twisted wedge 170, tfs1, weiand stealth, 1.6 rr t5 3.55s with a locker, a/c and all the creature comforts.

On a serious note.. wagon made 3000hp on the dyno
gerg1962
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2011, 08:37:59 pm »

There is certainly some noise coming from the cracked manifold but it goes away (mostly) once it warms up and the other noise is still there.  I will change out the manifolds and see but I am pretty sure there is some valve train issue in there somewhere.

Oil pressure looks okay but it is the stock gauge, so as you mention not sure how accurate it is.

It is not smoking (burning oil) and still runs pretty strong.  The odometer shows 95,000 miles and I think that is original as I have some receipts from years ago and the mielage seems to fall right into line.

I would have loved a 4 speed but alas it is an automatic, not too likely at this point for me to upgrade to an AOD or 5 speed.  For now, it will be a very occasional daily driver.


Craig
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68mustang405
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« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2011, 07:46:55 am »

There is certainly some noise coming from the cracked manifold but it goes away (mostly) once it warms up and the other noise is still there.  I will change out the manifolds and see but I am pretty sure there is some valve train issue in there somewhere.

Oil pressure looks okay but it is the stock gauge, so as you mention not sure how accurate it is.

It is not smoking (burning oil) and still runs pretty strong.  The odometer shows 95,000 miles and I think that is original as I have some receipts from years ago and the mielage seems to fall right into line.

I would have loved a 4 speed but alas it is an automatic, not too likely at this point for me to upgrade to an AOD or 5 speed.  For now, it will be a very occasional daily driver.


Craig

OK well if it's original the valves might be sinking into the heads, These don't have hardened valve seats and with the unleaded fuels it can mess em up. There is some debate on whether this is a problem or not though.
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68 Mustang 310 twisted wedge 170, tfs1, weiand stealth, 1.6 rr t5 3.55s with a locker, a/c and all the creature comforts.

On a serious note.. wagon made 3000hp on the dyno
gerg1962
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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 11:58:22 am »

Okay it has been awhile but I finally got a few things done on this car.  Put the headers on and the noice is still there, sounds valve train related.  Pulled the valve covers off and seem to be getting oil flow and checked all the rocker arm nuts for proper valve lash.  Still the noise persisits.  Pulled the intake and checked all the lifters they look good.

Got a dial indicator and checked the movement of the valve, they seem to be moving up to around .008" which is quite a bit beyond the specifications of .0027.

It looks like someone had been in there before as everything was very clean.  I checked the level of the rocker studs which were all okay also checked the valves, 2 of them were lower than all the others.

Would worn valve guides or perhaps an improperly done valve job be the source of a clicking type noise?

Not sure if there is some other test I can perform before I pull the heads.  I think I have found a reputable machine shop, hoping they can check them and advise if the guides are the problem and what it was take $ wise to make them all better.

Can anyone think of anything else I should do before I pull the heads?

Thanks,

Craig
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289nate
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« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2011, 12:13:00 pm »

How did you adjust the valves?  Did you make sure the lifter was on the base circle of the cam an not the lobe when you adjusted them?

You could have a spun rod bearing making that noise which would be a shame.
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\'65 fastback pump gas 289, 4.56 gears, and faceplated T5.  11.123 at 122.4
gerg1962
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2011, 12:32:42 pm »

Actually they were adjusted while the engine was running.  My brother was helping me.  He backed the nuts off until there was a clacking/clicking noise then screwed them down until the noise stopped then 1/4 more turn after that.

Would there be some other symptom of a spun rod bearing?

This noise seems to be coming from the upper end of the engine.

A spun bearing would be a bummer.

Craig
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gerg1962
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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2011, 12:39:57 pm »

It isn't a heavy knock, more of a light tick tick tick that will increase with engine speed.  On the highway you can't hear it mainly because the dual exhaust drowns it out.
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289nate
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« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2011, 12:45:37 pm »

Actually they were adjusted while the engine was running.  My brother was helping me.  He backed the nuts off until there was a clacking/clicking noise then screwed them down until the noise stopped then 1/4 more turn after that.

Would there be some other symptom of a spun rod bearing?

This noise seems to be coming from the upper end of the engine.

A spun bearing would be a bummer.

Craig


That's the old school way of adjusting them.  Have you changed the oil and did it have any metal flake in it?  Without being there it's hard to say what it could be.  Rockers hitting the retainer, blown exhaust manifold gasket, wrong rocker arm, etc. 

Is the hole in the head where the push rod comes through round or oval?  Are the rockers the rail type that have a slot of sorts that fit over the head of the valve to guide it?  Are all the rockers rail or non rail type?
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\'65 fastback pump gas 289, 4.56 gears, and faceplated T5.  11.123 at 122.4
gerg1962
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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2011, 01:09:24 pm »

Well my brother is a bit old school, he has been a Ford mechanic for more than 30 years.  He said he is spoiled because no one fixes anything anymore they just replace what is broken.

I changed the oil when I got the car, no metal evident at that time.  The oil is still clean now. 

I think all the rockers arms and studs and springs are stock.  All the little ball shaped discs that the rockers pivot on still have their little oil grooves in them. 

The rockers are fitted on studs not rails.

Like you say too many possibilities.

Will double check for valve guide wear.  The local machine shop said they could re-do both heads with new guides for $200 so that doesn't sound too bad.  Hoping to rule out more simple and cheaper fixes first.

Thanks,

Craig
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289nate
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« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2011, 04:33:13 pm »

You've misinterpreted what I was getting at about the rockers.  There were stock rail tip rockers and stock rockers without the rail tip.  If the push rod hole in the heads is a slot, you run the regular factory rocker.  If the hole in the head is round, you run the factory rail tip rocker.  If you run the rail tip rocker (someone could have replaced one or more rocker on your engine unknowingly with a rail tip piece) on a valve and retainer combo meant for the regular rocker, you could get a ticking / knock from the rails on the tip smacking the retainer due to the shorter valve tip not allowing clearance for the retainer and rail rocker tip.

Google it and you'll find lots of information on this.

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\'65 fastback pump gas 289, 4.56 gears, and faceplated T5.  11.123 at 122.4
hypostang
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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2011, 05:59:54 pm »

From 1962 until  1966, all 221/ 260/289 engines had pushrod guides cast in the cylinder
head. Beginning in 1966, Ford went to a rail-style rocker arm where the rocker is centered
at the valve. The rail-style rocker arm is on the left.


* rockers.gif (59.35 KB, 375x252 - viewed 86 times.)
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gerg1962
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« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2011, 07:23:03 pm »

Sorry,

You are right, I did not get what you were asking.

When you said rail, I was thinking like the FE series engines where the rockers are moounted on a shaft.

I cannot say specifically which ones I have without looking at them and comparing to the photo that someone else posted.

All the rockers were the same shape I recall but it doesn't rule out the possibility there were or are the wrong type.

I will investigate and report.

Thanks,

Craig
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gerg1962
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« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2011, 07:27:09 pm »

Assuming for the moment that the engine is a '68 like the car it should have the rail styple rockers.  Indeed I seem to think that they were like the ones in the picture below on the left.
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hypostang
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« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2011, 08:50:56 pm »

Assuming for the moment that the engine is a '68 like the car it should have the rail styple rockers.  Indeed I seem to think that they were like the ones in the picture below on the left.


 It should ,  trust ..but verify ..lol

 Any number of things could have happened in the last 43 years
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