Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 23, 2014, 11:20:53 am

Login with username, password and session length
Director PLEASE!!!!
Add your location information to your personal profile. Thanx!
411997 Posts in 35250 Topics by 8792 Members
Latest Member: unt8mdgt
Search: Advanced search
Advertiser Inquiries
+ SBFTECH.com Experienced Small Block Ford Tech
|-+ Grass Roots Tech
| |-+ Grass Roots Other Ford Engines
| | |-+ 351M/400M and 429/460 Block Comparison
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: 351M/400M and 429/460 Block Comparison  (Read 6292 times)
BirdMan
Adv_SBFTechie
Big Block
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1768


Location: Topeka, KS

« on: November 15, 2010, 10:11:11 am »

I just realized that the 351/400M's and the 429/460's have the same or very nearly the same block deck heights at 10.300/10.320, all have 3" mains, all use the same transmission bolt pattern and all use the same distributor.    I don't know what else if anything fits all of them.
Logged

Son's 412W Build Information;
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,19018.0.html
Son's '64 Falcon Performance Information;
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,25183.0.html
CDW6212R
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1997


Location: Knoxville, TN.

« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2010, 12:30:35 pm »

Whole different animals, the block bore spacing is way different. The 400 has the smallbock spacing, 4.38" between bores. 429/460's have 4.90" between bores, so as large as a 4.52" piston is possible in some of those. That means the heads and intakes are unrelated, cranks and most all else.

The bell housing pattern is the same for all but one year of 400, 1974 I think it was.  The lifters are the same but not really anything else.
Logged

Don
98 Mountaineer, stock but plans for a Navigator A4WD, then a KB 2200 and IC
91 Mark VII LSC Special Edition, OBDII 347 and 4R70W soon.
Pure84GTT
6 Banger
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 63


Location: Detroit MI

« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2010, 02:30:41 pm »

^ hit the nail on the head.
Logged

1982 Notch Back Mustang - stock 302 Smiley
CDW6212R
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1997


Location: Knoxville, TN.

« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2010, 11:47:49 pm »

The distributor is the same for all of those too, 335/385 engines.
Logged

Don
98 Mountaineer, stock but plans for a Navigator A4WD, then a KB 2200 and IC
91 Mark VII LSC Special Edition, OBDII 347 and 4R70W soon.
417strokers
4 Banger
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 19

Location: Prince George BC

« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2011, 11:44:35 pm »

       It is interesting to here some one say the a big block can be bored that big , If you read on most big block webs they will say 0.03 is the bore limit . I know that isn't true I had a friend that had a Torino Cobra 429 Super CJ, He ran a stroked 460 crank Big block dodge rods and 0.100"over  domed pistons.  He ran this set up on the drag strip for four years with no problems at all .

  Then he need to freshen it up He was told that there is no way the shop would stand behind the rebuild if he went that big because you should never bore a big block ford over 0.030".
I think a Performance build  should be sonic tested and if it has core shift you should find a differant block.
Logged
CDW6212R
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1997


Location: Knoxville, TN.

« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2011, 12:41:41 am »

      It is interesting to here some one say the a big block can be bored that big , If you read on most big block webs they will say 0.03 is the bore limit . I know that isn't true I had a friend that had a Torino Cobra 429 Super CJ, He ran a stroked 460 crank Big block dodge rods and 0.100"over  domed pistons.  He ran this set up on the drag strip for four years with no problems at all .

  Then he need to freshen it up He was told that there is no way the shop would stand behind the rebuild if he went that big because you should never bore a big block ford over 0.030".
I think a Performance build  should be sonic tested and if it has core shift you should find a differant block.


It's all in the block, the 351/400 Cleveland blocks are not made to bored more than .030, and that .030 is pushing the limit.

The 429/460 blocks are much thicker in the cylinders, they can take far more boring.  At the time of a popular Ford magazine called Ford Performance(yellow cover), any 429/460 could be bored .080 without checking them, and with sonic checking could go to as much as .160 bored over. That's a 4.520" bore BTW.

If you do the math on the bore spacing of the Cleveland blocks versus the 385 series engines, the difference is .520", which is basically  the difference in potential bore sizes. The Cleveland has 4.38" bore spacing, and the 429/460 is 4.90" between bores.
Logged

Don
98 Mountaineer, stock but plans for a Navigator A4WD, then a KB 2200 and IC
91 Mark VII LSC Special Edition, OBDII 347 and 4R70W soon.
Paul Kane
4 Banger
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 32

Location: San Francisco Bay Area

WWW
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2013, 01:44:13 pm »

We sonic check 460 blocks regularly and based on the sonic check criteria we use over here, almost all OEM passnger 429/460 car blocks typically are good to 0.080" overbore and will continue to support more hp than most people would dare throw at them.  There are exceptions of course but in my personal experience blocks that are not capable of 0.080" overbore (4.44") are extremely rare.

On the flipside, finding 429/460 passenger car blocks that are 4.500" bore capable (0.140" overbore) requires sonic checking several blocks, and even then finding one that will go to 4.500" without any offset boring remains a long shot but there are certainly out there.  Boring 0.140" overbore with offset boring, they are a bit more plentiful but sonic checking is a must, mapping the cylinders is a must, and then knowing how and where to offset bore becomes a necessity.

Paul
Logged

We're On The Web; Click Below:
High Flow Dynamics
Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family
78 rancho
Small Block
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 156


Location: wshington and oregon

« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2013, 12:30:46 pm »

yep one thing if you replace a 335 351/400 with a 385, you'll need the correct rear sump pan oil pickup and motor mounts.  a company call Land N can find them in most off road books have the info. maybe able to find the parts in a wrecking yard from a 1990's truck or van.
Logged
scienceguy
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2033


Location: West Virginia

« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2013, 01:01:12 pm »

I found a 1973 Ford LTD in the boneyard in almost perfect shape back when I was in high school...  that someone had robbed the 400 engine out of.  I bought the car cheap, and bought a 460 to put in place, as they had the same bellhousing.  That's about where the similarities ended.  lol  In typical Ford fashion, tt needed different motor mounts, and about every other possible thing.  Even things like the throttle cable were different.  Luckily, the boneyard also had a Ford Thunderbird of about the same era with a 460...  so I was able to use it to get the swap completed.  Ran good once it was all finished!  I then sold the car to my brother.  It was his high school ride.  Smiley

I drove it from West Virginia to Wildwood, New Jersey the summer after my first year of college.  Did you know a full sized keg of beer will fit in the trunk of one of those cars...  standing upright?  lol  Smiley

Good Luck!
Logged

1966 Mustang, Toploader 4-speed
Pump Gas, Flat Tappet 306
10.134 @ 134.71
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines



408 Stroker