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Author Topic: 351W long rod very short life  (Read 35310 times)
69 Merc
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« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2010, 02:17:28 pm »

Beauty is in the eyes of the holder.  My Merc is NOT ugly!!!





I don't have any current pics.  I need to take some.  It's just been hot here where I live.   
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Robert's 1969 Mercury Montego (FordStrokers 408W, QFT 850cfm RQ-AN, Super Victor, 1" aluminum open spacer, CamMotion HR .624"/.609" 251*/256* 108* LSA, 1-3/4"x3-1/2" headers, Dynomax Ultra #17224 mufflers, C6/4R100 trans, 8"/9" 5500 converter, Broader Performance manual V/B, 9" 4.56 Detroit Truetrac, Hoosier Pro Street 31x12.5R15 on 10" rims)

The Merc started here = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,27178.0.html  Now = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,34648.0.html

Thanks to Jim "Woody" and Nicole Woods @ FordStrokers 408W, Westminster Performance Transmission (W.P.T.) transmissions, TCS Performance converters, Broader Performance valvebodies and last but not least a BIG thanks (always) to my friends here and abroad in the World!
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« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2010, 02:22:32 pm »

You got any new pics of that ugly car I want to see more...
Javier

Cheap shot man, no bueno
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I'm Rob.  Working on my '93 Reef Blue coupe.  Stock internal 302, 80 MAF, 75 TB, Victor 5.0, High Ports, 30# inj., B303, 1.6s, Tremec TKO 3550, Quicktime bell, Fidanza Al flywheel, stage 3 ceramic clutch, & 4.10s.  12.68 @ 111.69
'66 F100 shortbed, 352ci, 3 on the tree - on hold
'65 Coupe rolling chassis - on hold
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Misc. Fox Body Interior Pieces
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« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2010, 02:39:20 pm »

You got any new pics of that ugly car I want to see more...
Javier

Cheap shot man, no bueno
they go way back. There good Wink
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Phil.
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« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2010, 02:40:49 pm »

You got any new pics of that ugly car I want to see more...
Javier

Cheap shot man, no bueno

I know, man!  

If I had some real money then my Merc would look top-class immaculate but unfortunately I don't.

It about broke my bank making it semi-fast -- motor-wise, fuel system, coolant system, trans, steering, drive-train, suspension, tires and rims!
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Robert's 1969 Mercury Montego (FordStrokers 408W, QFT 850cfm RQ-AN, Super Victor, 1" aluminum open spacer, CamMotion HR .624"/.609" 251*/256* 108* LSA, 1-3/4"x3-1/2" headers, Dynomax Ultra #17224 mufflers, C6/4R100 trans, 8"/9" 5500 converter, Broader Performance manual V/B, 9" 4.56 Detroit Truetrac, Hoosier Pro Street 31x12.5R15 on 10" rims)

The Merc started here = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,27178.0.html  Now = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,34648.0.html

Thanks to Jim "Woody" and Nicole Woods @ FordStrokers 408W, Westminster Performance Transmission (W.P.T.) transmissions, TCS Performance converters, Broader Performance valvebodies and last but not least a BIG thanks (always) to my friends here and abroad in the World!
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« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2010, 02:43:57 pm »

 robert. I don't think he meant anything personal. I dont think he was referring to the condition of your car
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Phil.
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« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2010, 02:48:42 pm »

robert. I don't think he meant anything personal. I dont think he was referring to the condition of your car

Oh don't worry, bro.  Thanks.  He and I have talked smack jokingly to each other before.  When I really get mad I usually use lots of curse words and nasty assed street slang.  Then you'll know without a doubt that I'm ticked-off.

The crappy part of my speed addiction is that after driving it a while now it doesn't seem fast to me anymore!   WTF

I need more HP.  That costs more money, dammit!  I'm trying my best saving money for a better motor whenever the heck that can happen.  I'm even looking into getting a part-time second job for more income.
 
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Robert's 1969 Mercury Montego (FordStrokers 408W, QFT 850cfm RQ-AN, Super Victor, 1" aluminum open spacer, CamMotion HR .624"/.609" 251*/256* 108* LSA, 1-3/4"x3-1/2" headers, Dynomax Ultra #17224 mufflers, C6/4R100 trans, 8"/9" 5500 converter, Broader Performance manual V/B, 9" 4.56 Detroit Truetrac, Hoosier Pro Street 31x12.5R15 on 10" rims)

The Merc started here = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,27178.0.html  Now = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,34648.0.html

Thanks to Jim "Woody" and Nicole Woods @ FordStrokers 408W, Westminster Performance Transmission (W.P.T.) transmissions, TCS Performance converters, Broader Performance valvebodies and last but not least a BIG thanks (always) to my friends here and abroad in the World!
69 Merc
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« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2010, 02:57:22 pm »

The only reason I said to go forged and not "hyper" pistons is because I remember Jay Allen saying that they weren't any good if you're making any real power.  I just don't want the same crap to happen to the OP, Javier, again.  I'm definitely saving my hard-earned money for forged pistons on my future upgrade motor.
 Good Luck!
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Robert's 1969 Mercury Montego (FordStrokers 408W, QFT 850cfm RQ-AN, Super Victor, 1" aluminum open spacer, CamMotion HR .624"/.609" 251*/256* 108* LSA, 1-3/4"x3-1/2" headers, Dynomax Ultra #17224 mufflers, C6/4R100 trans, 8"/9" 5500 converter, Broader Performance manual V/B, 9" 4.56 Detroit Truetrac, Hoosier Pro Street 31x12.5R15 on 10" rims)

The Merc started here = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,27178.0.html  Now = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,34648.0.html

Thanks to Jim "Woody" and Nicole Woods @ FordStrokers 408W, Westminster Performance Transmission (W.P.T.) transmissions, TCS Performance converters, Broader Performance valvebodies and last but not least a BIG thanks (always) to my friends here and abroad in the World!
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« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2010, 11:18:52 am »

Merc your car is it over 3800lbs?
I think you can fake yourself out by changing the rear gear to something a little more doable for street/strip duty.
I started out using 3.89 for years, then the local track opened and I threw in a 4.56 pig and I did not see any improvement e/t, 60ft, mph, NADA.
Put the 3.89 back in and car went faster  WTF
In my car the 3.89 gear feels as if the motor has to make more grunt to get going and it seemed to work better.
I mentioned this cause you said your used to the power you have and want more.
Just trick yourself by changing the gear you may be suprised and you wont need a new motor just yet!

Javier
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« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2010, 11:45:28 am »

Merc your car is it over 3800lbs?
 
With me in it the Merc weighs 4000lbs.  I still love it, though.  Not all cars can be hot skinny models, no?  
  
I think you can fake yourself out by changing the rear gear to something a little more doable for street/strip duty.
I started out using 3.89 for years, then the local track opened and I threw in a 4.56 pig and I did not see any improvement e/t, 60ft, mph, NADA.
Put the 3.89 back in and car went faster  WTF
In my car the 3.89 gear feels as if the motor has to make more grunt to get going and it seemed to work better.

I think that this is because it makes your TC stall a little bit higher.  Going to a numerically larger gear will lower your TC's stall.

I mentioned this cause you said your used to the power you have and want more.
Just trick yourself by changing the gear you may be surprised and you wont need a new motor just yet!

Javier

I'm thinking on putting on some 315/50R15's out back which will change my tire height from it's 26" present to 28".  That should change my rear gear from a 4.56 to a 4.23 -- that should help me with traction issues, slightly increase the TC stall -- AND hopefully not slow down my acceleration because it's a larger tire circumference-wise.

Plus -- whenever I can get my upgrade monster motor I'm going to have a wild cam in it which needs a high numerically rear gear.  So I'm going to put taller tires on soon and see from there.
 
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Robert's 1969 Mercury Montego (FordStrokers 408W, QFT 850cfm RQ-AN, Super Victor, 1" aluminum open spacer, CamMotion HR .624"/.609" 251*/256* 108* LSA, 1-3/4"x3-1/2" headers, Dynomax Ultra #17224 mufflers, C6/4R100 trans, 8"/9" 5500 converter, Broader Performance manual V/B, 9" 4.56 Detroit Truetrac, Hoosier Pro Street 31x12.5R15 on 10" rims)

The Merc started here = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,27178.0.html  Now = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,34648.0.html

Thanks to Jim "Woody" and Nicole Woods @ FordStrokers 408W, Westminster Performance Transmission (W.P.T.) transmissions, TCS Performance converters, Broader Performance valvebodies and last but not least a BIG thanks (always) to my friends here and abroad in the World!
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« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2010, 12:03:09 pm »

A C-4 for transmission  
I couldn't do it I had to have an AOD
And I love it, very dependable unit I built.
I have 5 C-4s just sitting around I am afraid to
use any, and I built many of those too before

No Hot Rod Power Tour for you eh?

Javier
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« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2010, 01:52:22 pm »

It had a 6800rpm pill that day thankfully.
I tore the rest of the motor down and found every rod bearing spun but no damage,   WTF except for all the tangs ripped out that hold the bearings in the register  
the rod journals and bearing faces are in new condition.  Whistling
I will get pics soon.
I Wont be using total seal top ring again, I think that was the straw...

Javier

it sounds like this may have been caused by this-

Quote
             How did you limit timing to only 12 degrees mechanical?  Seems like classic detonation damage, could you have more advance than you think?
          

The car/engine was built by me and my buddy. I rather of had more control of the build but it is what it is.
The day I cranked up the motor, my buddy Jim took the car home. no timing no tune nothing!  I was pissed but I got paid and that was that.
A month goes by and I get calls, this aint right, this isnt working, hey I have to bring it to ya I cant make it run no more.
So I get the car back and the distributor MSD is FUBAR only had 3 cylinders firing.
So who knows what Jim and friends did???
I took a magnetic FORD pickup distributor and modified the centrifical advance myself to get 12 degrees, set it up with a timing light and the car came to life until I killed it.

Javier

 

the oil may have been severely diluted with fuel. definately do not reuse the oil in this situation, even if it only has 50miles.
how far was the piston in/out of the hole? I almost wonder, maybe if they were like .009 out, maybe when that bearing started to go, the head may have hit the piston?  Wonder, Ponder it probably was detonation though. the damage very well may started when your buddy was limping the thing around hurt, yet beating the crap out of it, then at the track he just finished it off  
I kind of thought the issue with those pistons was more that they were on the heavy side  

I knid of agree with Javier on the gear thing, MERC you have enough converter now, a 4.10 or 3.73 the car might feel stronger, meanwhile be more enjoyable to drive
I doubt you drive on the highway much, a 4.56gear with a 26"tire and a c4 would probably suck at 65-70
as far as hp MERC, working with what you have, on a budget, I think I would mill the heads and try to get the compression up to 10.25:1 or 10.5:1, put a little more cam in it, and ditch the stack of spacers, go 1" open, or just ditch that intake altogether and look into a small runner single plane for now. part of hot rodding is doing what you can with what you have, and having fun while doing it. someone will always be faster and have more money
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« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2010, 02:23:54 pm »

JayH thanks 4 the reply.
The oil was fine, not now, the pistons were .005 out the hole with a .045 cometic gasket.

Yesterday I took the rods in and we looked and we find the rod bearing is for a 351W not a 351M so there is another item to add to the list of phuck ups.

My buddy JIM great guy but he likes to get ahead of himself sometimes, back in the day when we were getting parts I handed him a rod bearing from my 351/400M connecting rods and told him match this bearing up get me a set. since he could not wait for ME to do it...

So fast foward a few months, did the math the rod bearing clearence was .012 with the wrong bearings. 351W bearings on 400M rods

I blame Me cause I put it together, did the piston whack the head? none the othe pistons have evidence.

I have to take blame but I dont like being pressured to do anything except 5 speed T-5s I can do those in my sleep.

In My mind I built the engine in 2003 and it ran great!  I had a oil leak that I could not find and yanked the engine out.
I gave the block to another buddy and the rest of the parts sat in my oven till Jim opened the door.

Anyway I got all the parts ready again for more abuse so stay tuned...

Javier

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« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2010, 02:25:59 pm »

 Good Luck!
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Robert's 1969 Mercury Montego (FordStrokers 408W, QFT 850cfm RQ-AN, Super Victor, 1" aluminum open spacer, CamMotion HR .624"/.609" 251*/256* 108* LSA, 1-3/4"x3-1/2" headers, Dynomax Ultra #17224 mufflers, C6/4R100 trans, 8"/9" 5500 converter, Broader Performance manual V/B, 9" 4.56 Detroit Truetrac, Hoosier Pro Street 31x12.5R15 on 10" rims)

The Merc started here = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,27178.0.html  Now = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,34648.0.html

Thanks to Jim "Woody" and Nicole Woods @ FordStrokers 408W, Westminster Performance Transmission (W.P.T.) transmissions, TCS Performance converters, Broader Performance valvebodies and last but not least a BIG thanks (always) to my friends here and abroad in the World!
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« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2010, 06:52:53 pm »

JayH thanks 4 the reply.
The oil was fine, not now, the pistons were .005 out the hole with a .045 cometic gasket.

Yesterday I took the rods in and we looked and we find the rod bearing is for a 351W not a 351M so there is another item to add to the list of phuck ups.

My buddy JIM great guy but he likes to get ahead of himself sometimes, back in the day when we were getting parts I handed him a rod bearing from my 351/400M connecting rods and told him match this bearing up get me a set. since he could not wait for ME to do it...

So fast foward a few months, did the math the rod bearing clearence was .012 with the wrong bearings. 351W bearings on 400M rods

I blame Me cause I put it together, did the piston whack the head? none the othe pistons have evidence.

I have to take blame but I dont like being pressured to do anything except 5 speed T-5s I can do those in my sleep.

In My mind I built the engine in 2003 and it ran great!  I had a oil leak that I could not find and yanked the engine out.
I gave the block to another buddy and the rest of the parts sat in my oven till Jim opened the door.

Anyway I got all the parts ready again for more abuse so stay tuned...

Javier



How did you have oil pressure with .012 bearing clearance did you have a pressure gauge?
Even if you don't have any mics or a dial bore gauge you should at least use plastigauge it would have clued you in to a problem. I can say this at least you are honest most people would have made up and excuse instead of admitting to that big of a mistake. Good luck with the new build and always check clearances they will save you alot of money.

Bam
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« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2010, 10:58:48 am »

Yep I could of checked the rod clearence, At the time I actually did, we had some .010 bearings on a .020 journal and I caught that one, so I pulled the original rod bearings I had run back in 2004 and handed that to my buddy to get a duplicate.
Still My fault for not checking.
Oil pressure was low hot idle 10 psi 45 psi at 4000 rpm.

I love telling the truth, makes me look more like a liar!  Most people rather hear some bullcrap instead cause they rather believe that instead of truth  WTF

Javier
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