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Author Topic: SCT vs self tuning  (Read 10260 times)
Jdubes
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« on: August 30, 2009, 03:55:03 pm »

Hi guys,

The 393 in my truck is going to be up and running again soon (hopefully!). I'm just waiting for pushrods and I'm home free for assembly. I've got tuning issues I'd like to discuss...

I currently have an SCT chip and have had it tuned before on the dyno. The guy seems to be pretty decent, but what do I know. I'm trying to figure out if I should go back to him and stick with SCT tuning, or branch out on my own and tune it myself.

My reasoning is because I am not convinced the SCT tuning is thorough enough. He seems to simply tune for WOT. I'm not sure about other situations, such as cold start. That and how accurate can it be when it's 70-90 in his shop, and my truck sees temps as low as -30.

I'm feeling like the right way for me to go about this situation is to tune it myself and since I just got a new laptop, I'm half way there. Would you guys agree? Or am I able to improve my situation with SCT style tuning by asking the right questions and skip doing it myself?

I know there's a bit of a learning curve, and that I'd need a wideband and one of the various tuning softwares, but I'm not so sure about it because of the time investment wasted while trying to find the 'right' information as well as the extra money involved buying an o2 sensor and software.

What do you guys think? Can I make SCT stuff work for me or should I abandon it and branch out on my own?
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Justin
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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2009, 04:12:04 pm »

You can download the Tweecer program for free and look through the available tables, if you feel comfortable with what you see, give it a try.  You don't have to use Tweecer, but the Tweecer software tables will give you an idea of what you will be looking at.
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Jdubes
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2009, 05:04:41 pm »

Where would be a good place to go for that?

Any other good links to topics or sites you recommend I check out for additional info?
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Justin
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2009, 07:44:07 pm »

Justin let me know what you find out about this.  It seems we are going down the same path again.

I was introduced to David Claflin by Jay.  He is on these tuning boards and recommends the Moates Quarterhorse and some software, the EEC anaylizer and Binary Editor.  It looks like I may have to go that route, but I am trying to see if I can do the same thing with my Diablosport chip.  I am well versed with computers and have several certifications but don't really know what this tuning stuff is about or what I am really looking for or how to read it.  I have picked up a few things by visiting another forum that just does tuning stuff.  Some are talking about a wideband gizmo that reads O2 sensor stuff.  I am not sure if the quarterhorse reads that thru the PCM or it is another hardware/software item I need.  Being it's Sunday I havn't gotten a lot of feedback.   I have never heard of Moates untill the past few days.  I definitely want something I can use myself as the guy that did my tune is off my list.  I have picked up that even with my shit build I shouldn't have had fuel issues bad enough to wipe the engine out.  Lets see I am 61 mow maybe by 105 I'll get this shit down.  By then the Bronco will be a classic and probably banned from the road.

Well good luck in your search for excellence.
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Jdubes
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2009, 07:47:38 pm »

Well, the difference I see between us here is that your running a 96 OBD2 truck...I'm running an A9L OBD1 setup. But I guess some can do both...

I think the biggest challenge will be in finding the information. There is sooo much out there, it's tough to weed through the BS and get to the meat/potatos.
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Justin
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2009, 08:06:21 pm »

Well, the difference I see between us here is that your running a 96 OBD2 truck...I'm running an A9L OBD1 setup.

I'm gonna poke around a bit tonight and see what I come up with.


What is A9L? a comp code?  What is the 96 Bronco?
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A wiseman or wiseass (I am not sure) once said to me "He only recommends that because he sells it"
Jdubes
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2009, 08:08:21 pm »

Yeah, A9L is the computer code for a 5 spd mass air mustang in the late 80s and early 90s. It's the most popular ECU because of what you can do with it. I converted my truck to use this computer and EFI system. It originally had a speed density type system.

I don't know what is in your bronco, you can tell by looking at the computer but it's OBD2.
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Justin
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2009, 08:15:24 pm »

Yeah, A9L is the computer code for a 5 spd mass air mustang in the late 80s and early 90s. It's the most popular ECU because of what you can do with it. I converted my truck to use this computer and EFI system. It originally had a speed density type system.

I don't know what is in your bronco, you can tell by looking at the computer but it's OBD2.

Is ODB-II going be a problem with doing my own tune?
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Jdubes
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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2009, 08:40:34 pm »

No....

I'm reading over at eectuning.org....nice website. Currently checking out the FAQ section which so far has been very helpful.

You should pull your computer and find out which one you actually have, it'll help.

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Justin
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2009, 02:58:13 pm »


You should pull your computer and find out which one you actually have, it'll help.
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Jdubes
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2009, 04:43:53 pm »

well, I've done some research and have learned a lot. I spent some time on some other sites researching the options that are out there.

It looks like if I had to guess I would end up with moates QH, the o2 sensor shit, etc. It's quite an investment though...at least $500.

I've already invested $400 or so in SCT tuning.

I'm having a hard time figuring out if I can get away with what I'm doing with SCT or if I need to grow towards doing it myself.

Are you able to properly tune your engine with SCT? I'd like to dig up some information so I am armed when I talk to my dyno guy next. I'm concerned about cold start, flucuations in temperature, etc. I just want a nice, safe, properly running engine.

What are some of the limitions of SCT style tuning? Are there tips you can give me to get a more thorough tune?

I kind of would like to stick with SCT and let him tune it....if I can come to a place where I feel confident it's going to work out ok. If I can only get a half ass tune through this type of setup, than I would be more interested in making the investment over to self-tuning. Are there limitations with SCT that prevent you from getting a good thorough tune?


...any thoughts?
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Justin
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2009, 07:41:55 pm »

The pre OBDII cars are better off with what David Claflin would tell you, like what he uses. The OBDII Fords can use the SCT flashers, the Excals, which are more user and programmer friendly. There is more potential for a really good tune with the OBDII and newer systems. The flashers for OBDII are not cheap, and it requires more software to do tuning yourself. I've considered it myself, I haven't yet begun the tuning either.

Real tuning does require wideband O2 sensors, the kits that are made for that seem to be at least $150-$200. For OBDII stuff the Excal III flasher is used to data log from the special O2's, to a laptop. You can get tuning from a programmer by emails, sending them the data logs. It's not simple in any case, so going to a dyno where a tuner works is still a common choice.
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Don

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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2009, 08:01:51 pm »

  Well tuning isn't for everyone. It takes a while to get a grasp of things. The more radical the combo the more tuning required for part throttle. WOT is easy.

  I can say it was the best thing I ever did. My combo is fairly radical and it runs just fine. Even without the stock O2's ( no O2 input at all ).

   Good Luck!
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2009, 08:53:34 pm »

Yes, the learning curve is big I gather. You need to decide whether you want to devote that time to learning how to do the one, versus paying for tuning.
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Don

1991 Mark VII LSC Special Edition, soon to be OBDII and 4R70W, then GTC body kit and 347.
1998 Mountaineer, plans for A4WD and KB 2200 blower later, XP8 parts, paint and a 332.
1973 Ranchero and 72 Sport front end ...will be a 351 Clevor, EFI and 4R70W.
Jdubes
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« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2009, 09:37:32 pm »

I don't mind paying for the tuning...paying him a few hrs labor is still ahead of spending $500 on my own tuning stuff....


...it's just that I'm not confident that the SCT tuning style is adequate because I don't know enough about it. In other words, if tuning it through this way is a half assed, shitty way of doing it....than I'd be better off doing it myself.

If the dyno man can tune it properly for all aspects, than I'd feel more comfortable with having him do it.
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Justin
95 F-150 4wd/5spd 6" lift/35" tires, 393ci with Jay Allen cam, my big beast!

07' Fusion SEL V6 AWD
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