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Author Topic: World Products Windsor Jr./Sr. vs. GT40-P Heads  (Read 5019 times)
fordwillownyou
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« on: August 28, 2009, 04:14:00 am »

Hey, im looking to build a 302 for my ranger.

No specs are definate yet, but heres a rough idea:

331" stroker kit w/ forged crank, rods, and flat top pistons
11:1+ CR
750cfm double pumper on performer manifold
long tube headers with dual 3" cutouts (thru 40 series when i need to be quiet)
probably X303 or similar cam, hyd roller w/ roller rockers

and most importantly, REASONABLY priced heads.

so my question is, what heads are better for me? i see that the world heads have quite beefier valves. oh and combustion chamber size isnt yet decided yet, probably 62cc, but im not 100% sure yet.

thanks in advance
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2009, 05:41:15 am »

If your looking to make some reliable power........I'd be looking at the TW TFS FAC heads Jay sells on here. They put out some steam and there are many happy customers on here with them. But it all boils down to the combination. A CI cam would be VERY beneficial and you might as well stroke it to 347 while your at it. 400rwhp+ is very possible. A CI cam is advantageous to an off the shelf grind. I had to learn the hard way prior to finding this forum. I have maybe 280-290rwhp. You came to the right place to ask ?'s.  Keep an open mind and absorb!! These guys know how to make an engine run FAST!!!.
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70 Cougar, 347 Stroker w/5 speed TKO and 4.30 gears, XE284H cam w/World Jr Heads modified to 2.02/1.60 valves. Victor Jr intake ported, ProSystems 780cfm carb, 17 X 11 Torque Thrust 2's out back and 17 X 8's up front. It's an OK combo(maybe 280rwhp), but I've learned there's a MUCH better combo (like 400rwhp+)  thru this forum....SmileySmiley
tampa horsemen
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2009, 06:20:33 am »

If your looking to make some reliable power........I'd be looking at the TW TFS FAC heads Jay sells on here. They put out some steam and there are many happy customers on here with them. But it all boils down to the combination. A CI cam would be VERY beneficial and you might as well stroke it to 347 while your at it. 400rwhp+ is very possible. A CI cam is advantageous to an off the shelf grind. I had to learn the hard way prior to finding this forum. I have maybe 280-290rwhp. You came to the right place to ask ?'s.  Keep an open mind and absorb!! These guys know how to make an engine run FAST!!!.
true story  What He Said Welcome


gator
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kenash
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2009, 06:57:00 am »

Hey, im looking to build a 302 for my ranger.

No specs are definate yet, but heres a rough idea:

331" stroker kit w/ forged crank, rods, and flat top pistons
11:1+ CR
750cfm double pumper on performer manifold
long tube headers with dual 3" cutouts (thru 40 series when i need to be quiet)
probably X303 or similar cam, hyd roller w/ roller rockers

and most importantly, REASONABLY priced heads.

so my question is, what heads are better for me? i see that the world heads have quite beefier valves. oh and combustion chamber size isnt yet decided yet, probably 62cc, but im not 100% sure yet.

thanks in advance


Hey Bud,

Believe what these guis are telling you. I'm making 392 RWHP on a 289/331 stroker with Jay's TFS's and his recommended cam.. With no written plan of where you want your motor to make power, you'll just be wasting your money.
Good Luck
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Ken
Severna Park, Md
'64 1/2 Rest-O-Poppy Mod (5 bolt 333 cu.in)
Jay Allen TW heads, Billet cam, Dual DCOE 40mm Webers, Jacobs Ign., Performer RPM, TRI-Ys, T5Z (.63), 3:55
rcfreek59
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2009, 08:11:51 am »

I have a 408 (my machine shop says it figures to a 406). It was in a Ranger (my signiture picture). It has WORLD sr. heads which have 200cc in. runners and 64cc chambers. Manley stainless 202/160 valves. 3/8 screw in steel studs. I have heard for cast they are a good head. Jay has a better selection for not that much more money (could be close to the same money depending on where you get the heads). Jays heads are aluminum and depending on what you choose, you can have a multitude of things done to them by Jay. He will also set you up with a combo ( cam, lifters, rockers, timing chain and gears). His service after the sale is the best according to everybody. And he can take what you are using your vehicle for and figure out the best plan for your set up.

                         And you get all this for not much more money
WORLD sr. heads from jegs are 1000.00 for the pair. I think I have seen one kind of Jays heads go for 1300.00 to 1400.00.-----------------------DO NOT QUOTE ME ON THIS-------------------------------------
  Now the problems with the WORLD sr. heads are that they run hotter than aluminum heads and hold the heat much longer. Other than that I have no beef about them. My 408 ran like a bat out of hell when I first got it. THat was with a bad cam. I had no problems lighting up a set of 40's on pavement. Jay is trying to talk me out of using my heads but my plan on this engine is a good street runner.           
Good luck
John
   
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mxracer652
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2009, 09:12:30 am »

Don't even think about GT40s.  302 parts make 302 power.

And please don't handicap your build by being a cheap ass where you should be spending money.  H/C/I is what makes power, and you're headed down the wrong path.  A few more posts & some restricted sections of this board will unlock, you'll be in for a very good eye opener.

Tell us some more about the build, your goals, etc.

http://sbftech.com/index.php/board,12.0.html


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86 LTD wagon, stock longblock 302 & 70mm turbo
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http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,26347.0.html
90lxcoupe
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2009, 09:23:33 am »

Here is my assesment.  There is no reason to run a 331 unless you don't care about power.  You are going to spend the money for forged internals but would even consider a head like a Gt40P and a shit off the shelf letter cam?  The gt40 p is going to be filled with junk parts and is a pedastal rocker.  If you put 302 parts on anything it will run like a 302.  hang around read some post & tell us what you intend to accomplish.  This looks like a misguided build with money spent in the wrong places.  before you say budget, you could put TW's on a stock bottom end & run a circle around this.  I say this, not based on internet hype, magazines or any special interest I owe.  This is based on 19 years of racing and having already made these mistakes.  i would have like someone to have smacked the mastercard out of my hand before I spent  alot of the moeny I did.  
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RichGT
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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2009, 09:26:31 am »

The World Heads are an excellent head for a cast iron head, They are amongst the best CI heads out there for a SBF

Now-

1) Dont do a 331; you can do a 347 for close to the same money and they are worlds apart.  If you get someone telling you a 331 is more reliable, find someone else to put the 347 together for you.

2) 11:1 compression is pretty high for a cast iron headed motor, especially if you're using an OTS camshaft that wasn't custom tailored for your application re: cranking compression and timing events. You'll also be leaving a lot of power on the table-  Get a custom cam and don't look back.

3) Stick around and read as much as you can; Be a sponge-  The best SBF info is here on this forum.   Keep an open mind, listen to the experts.  There is going to be a lot of mis-information that gets cleared up as you continue to read and learn from the guys on this board.

4)  Welcome

5) add your location to your profile!


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94 Black GT,5.0 w/ Cobra manifold, BBK 75mm tb, Mac shortys, t5, Mac cai, UPR X-Pipe, Mac/Flowmaster catback, Eibach pro kit w/ tokiko blues, MGW shifter, Y2K Cobra R Brembo Calipers w/ 13" rotors, Y2k Cobra R's w/ 285-35's on all 4 corners, MM full length subs, MM extreme duty RLCAs, MM CC Plates, MM Panhard Bar

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Jay Allen
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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2009, 09:42:58 am »

Hey Bud,

Believe what these guis are telling you. I'm making 392 RWHP on a 289/331 stroker with Jay's TFS's and his recommended cam.. With no written plan of where you want your motor to make power, you'll just be wasting your money.
Good Luck

Ken had the Jr's before.......Ken, share your information please.  Wink
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Jay Allen
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Whatever It Takes !!!

UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, ALL PM's ARE TURNED OFF.  I AM NOT IGNORING ANYONE, E-MAIL ME IF YOU NEED SOMETHING.
kenash
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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2009, 10:48:45 am »

Hey, im looking to build a 302 for my ranger.

No specs are definate yet, but heres a rough idea:

331" stroker kit w/ forged crank, rods, and flat top pistons
11:1+ CR
750cfm double pumper on performer manifold
long tube headers with dual 3" cutouts (thru 40 series when i need to be quiet)
probably X303 or similar cam, hyd roller w/ roller rockers

and most importantly, REASONABLY priced heads.

so my question is, what heads are better for me? i see that the world heads have quite beefier valves. oh and combustion chamber size isnt yet decided yet, probably 62cc, but im not 100% sure yet.

thanks in advance


Hey Bud,

Here's my 289/331 combo that puts out 392 RWHP @ 6100 and was still climbing, and 400 FT.Lbs at 4400 RPM.  My goal from the start to have a "spirited street warrior for show and go!" I was looking for a more "torque-y" build.
The block is a 45 year old bored(.040)/blueprinted block with a "woodyfied" 331 stroker kit. Once I learned that my pistons would support a TFS TW head config., I jumped at the opportunity to go with a "CI" combination of 170 TW heads and matching billet HR CI cam. The heads were milled to make a very street-able 10.6 CR. w/56 cc chambers. The chambers were blended to make a further contribution. I'm using Comps Ultra gold rockers with matching springs setup specifically for this cam whose gross lift is .570/.562 w/duration 220/234. My intake system consists of a ProSystem 680 HP XE series Holly with a 1/2" spacer on top of a Eddy Performer RPM manifold. I've been running a 3" K&N filter with Extreme top filter. The headers are 15 year old ceramic coated 1/58" Tri-Ys dumping into a 2-1/2" system w/ "X" balance and SpinTec muffs. My '67 OEM dizzy is running a Pertronix sparkie unit and is custom curved to provide a happy idle range of 850 to 900 with 16 deg. initial timing. When combined with a T5Z and 3:55 gears, it goes like a bat out'a hell!
As a point of reference, my previous combo, I was running fully ported Windsor JRs. (9.5 CR) and Jay's matching SADI cam. With this, I was running a well tuned Eddy 600 carb on the same intake and bottom end and made 338 RWHP. 
Hope this gives you and idea were you can go and how you might get there.
      
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Ken
Severna Park, Md
'64 1/2 Rest-O-Poppy Mod (5 bolt 333 cu.in)
Jay Allen TW heads, Billet cam, Dual DCOE 40mm Webers, Jacobs Ign., Performer RPM, TRI-Ys, T5Z (.63), 3:55
rcfreek59
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Godspeed John, you will always be remembered.


« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2009, 11:52:31 am »

Latley I have done alot of thinking since I have had cancer. I first was going to put the 408 back in the truck. I have put another 351w in it. I think that I am going to keep that motor in the truck (Why not) Its enough power for what I need. I think the 408 is going in a T-Bird that a friend has saved for me. I think I am going to stick the WORLD heads on the 351 w and get the heads for the 408 from Jay with the cam an related items. It will take me a while to save but thats the best choice.
Thanks
John
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Your stay here was short, but it will NEVER be Forgotten!
Thank you for your lessons, which you never knew you were giving...... but many DO appreciate and value them. God Bless You!
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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2009, 12:42:40 pm »

and get the heads for the 408 from Jay with the cam an related items. It will take me a while to save but thats the best choice.

Yes it is. 
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Jay Allen
CAMSHAFT INNOVATIONS

www.camshaftinnovations.com


Whatever It Takes !!!

UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, ALL PM's ARE TURNED OFF.  I AM NOT IGNORING ANYONE, E-MAIL ME IF YOU NEED SOMETHING.
hars
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2009, 01:43:35 pm »

with a "woodyfied" 331 stroker kit

Loved it!!! LOL LOL
I'd like to get my block woodyfied too...that's what's missing in my combo, since the cam is already "jayfied"  Naughty!!
Ham
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rcfreek59
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Godspeed John, you will always be remembered.


« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2009, 02:43:52 pm »

When I get the 302 out of my sons truck or out of the T-Bird its going in the back of my truck and I am going to take it to Woody. Let him have his way with it.


John
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Thank you for your lessons, which you never knew you were giving...... but many DO appreciate and value them. God Bless You!
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