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Author Topic: Is This "Late Valve Timing" Or Something Else?  (Read 2452 times)
MM Alexander
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« on: May 20, 2008, 09:22:39 pm »

So I recently get my 95 back up and running. Major Parts of the Combo:
DSS 308 - TFS Stage 1 (installed straight up dot to dot)  - 1.6RR - GT40 U/L - 42# inj. with Pro-M "Blow Thru" cal'd for 42's - B&G Hot Side, Custom  Cold Side - T64 -.......... and that covers the major parts.

I'm dealing with a STEADY low vacuum and slightly rich situation. It's only pulling 11" mercury and kind of burns your eyes after a bit of idle time.
Absolutely no vacuum leaks (Checked numerous time a variety of ways), no check engine light, no engine codes outside of EGR related (no smog equipment present), idles steady at 800 all day long. Gray smoke (that will burn the eyes) if I throttle the gas aggresively (rich). O2's are switching just fine (again no engine codes related to anything other then EGR).

I did a few internet searches on low steady vacuum and came up with a flash that went through various vacuum situations. Low and steady stated "Late Valve Timing" which would indicate the cam being retarded. I didn't use a degree wheel (never have but if this is indeed the issue, I'll tear it down and use one to degree it this freakin' time!)  and just installed the cam Dot-to-Dot

I made a short video of the car and the situation
http://media.putfile.com/Low-Vacuum-Condition

I haven't taken it out on the road yet (got insurance today but no tags, so maybe I'll do some late night creeping later) so I can't say how it runs (whether there is no low rpm power or if it's stumbling missing etc..).
Pretty sure it's going to be the Late Valve Timing but would like some more insight (never really dealt with this before).
TIA
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Joel5.0
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2008, 09:47:29 pm »

doesn't work. Anyway....... dot-to-dot w/out degreeing a cam can mean anything in terms of cam installation. Another areas you need to checkare, PR length and lifters preload. Too much of either, and those valves will not seal 100% causing the low vacuum reading as well. LUK
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'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
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Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
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If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
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Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
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Jay Allen
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2008, 09:59:59 pm »

Pretty simple.

TFS Stage 1
GT40 U/L
low vacuum and slightly rich situation
pulling 11"

Wrong length PR
Too much preload
Wrong lifters
Vacuum leak
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Jay Allen
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MM Alexander
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2008, 10:05:57 pm »

Okay, fixed link.
I understand that setting Dot - to Dot is not the most accurate. It's just I've never had as issue before (first time for everything I guess)
Pushrods, lifters, cam, heads, intake all. Had heads gone thorugh while motor was apart (new springs, clean up ports, checked for flatnessa) carried over from old motor.  Absolutely nary a vacuum leak.
Will get an adjustable pushrod on order and go over the valve train again.
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MM Alexander
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« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2008, 12:02:10 am »

Well I just took me a late nite ride along the back thoroughfares of the sub-division. Once I got a good open area, I applied a bit of loud pedal and wasn't too impressed. First was nothing, second it picked up a bit and third gear registered about 3 psi. I drove on to the local Chevron added some petro. Pondering things as I put gas in the tank, I remembered that i had cut the spring in the wastegate (I had the wastegate from my 2.3T Mustang) because I couldn't remember if it was an 8# or 14# spring. Figured better safe then sorry (turns out it is an 8# spring). So I reach in the fender well, remove and plug the pressure line from the turbo to the wastegate.
 I head back towards the house and give it a bit of loud pedal in second, struggles a bit to about 2700 then.................Holy Shit.......Houston We Have Lift Off! Hit's 10# on the gauge and SEG on my face! I never took it past 4800 as I'm not looking to break anything just yet. Hit third, more of the same.
So now I'm  looking forward to re-checking valve train geometry and tune, tune and more tune.. Not the worst thing in the world. Definitely beats tearing the whole motor apart.
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Joel5.0
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« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2008, 09:29:41 am »

Cool!...... however, for a Stg 1 to "produce" 11" Hg. @1000 rpms idle = something is wrong valve train wise. LUK what the geometry check results are.

PS: Oh!...... Welcome  and please add your location info to your personal profile......Thanx!
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
SqueekerJohns
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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2008, 09:44:18 am »

PS: Oh!...... Welcome  and please add your location info to your personal profile......Thanx!
HEHEHEHEHE 
It never fails.......kinda like the sun
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Joel5.0
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Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2008, 10:11:48 am »

Whistling......
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
Jay Allen
Camshaft Innovations
Banned Member
Big Block
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5945


Location: SE Michigan

WWW
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2008, 10:34:31 am »

for a Stg 1 to "produce" 11" Hg. @1000 rpms idle = something is wrong valve train wise

THAT IS WHAT I SAID AND IT WAS BLOWN OFF

Or he has a vacuum leak the size of the Grand Canyon.
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Jay Allen
CAMSHAFT INNOVATIONS

www.camshaftinnovations.com


Whatever It Takes !!!

UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, ALL PM's ARE TURNED OFF.  I AM NOT IGNORING ANYONE, E-MAIL ME IF YOU NEED SOMETHING.
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