Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 20, 2018, 04:00:31 am

Login with username, password and session length
TRADER Feedback System
IS NOW AVAILABLE
* SBFTECH Membership Required *
435277 Posts in 37275 Topics by 9537 Members
Latest Member: Mgabski
Search: Advanced search
Advertiser Inquiries
+ My Community
|-+ General Tech
| |-+ Joel 5.0's Electronic Engine Management
| | |-+ EFI DO's and DONT's (A Work in Progress)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 Go Down Print
Author Topic: EFI DO's and DONT's (A Work in Progress)  (Read 119027 times)
gtvert90
Adv_SBFTechie
Big Block
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6079


Location: Belvidere, IL

« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2010, 03:49:48 pm »

Thanks and i love this site. it is so helpful too.

We try our best.. Joel's a beast too. He's all over the place.

I once asked him to stop by a site to help a friend... come to find out he was already a member there for years. just never post much. 

Yes I agree. We need some pics.  Grin
Logged

Phil.
60HAWK
Small Block
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 144


Location: Kansas/Washington

WWW
« Reply #61 on: June 16, 2010, 03:50:19 pm »

Nevermind I see it
 http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,459.msg269696.html#new

 
Logged

Jon

91' GT, FordStrokers - 69W Longblock, TEA HP Heads, Bullet SR-Cam, EFI-Super Vic, 5 spd, Accufab headers, TeamZ,

1960 Studebaker Hawk, Stude 289, 11.0:1
Jay-Roller Cam, Custom Rods, Diamond-pistons,  ported heads, 9" ford
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,26027.0.html
60HAWK
Small Block
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 144


Location: Kansas/Washington

WWW
« Reply #62 on: June 16, 2010, 03:53:01 pm »

Pic's are always good,,,,, Got pics?
Logged

Jon

91' GT, FordStrokers - 69W Longblock, TEA HP Heads, Bullet SR-Cam, EFI-Super Vic, 5 spd, Accufab headers, TeamZ,

1960 Studebaker Hawk, Stude 289, 11.0:1
Jay-Roller Cam, Custom Rods, Diamond-pistons,  ported heads, 9" ford
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,26027.0.html
Blackbetty88GT
Small Block
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 165


Location: wichita, ks

« Reply #63 on: June 16, 2010, 05:37:28 pm »

its an 88 GT with minor mods, mass air upgrade,73mm mass air meter, BBK cold air kit, blue oval under drive pullies, ford E303 cam, Cobra 3 core aluminum radiator, dual electric fans, blue oval upper and lower rear control arms, 3.73 gears, blue oval shorty headers with off road h-pipe and pypes violators, Pro 5.0 shifter, t5(soon world class) Zoom SVT stage 2 clutch, aluminum Drive shaft, lowing spring whatever 60HAWK had lol!! 3g alternator upgrade, sound system. I think that's it


* photo 3.jpg (186.29 KB, 800x600 - viewed 572 times.)

* photo 4.jpg (157.39 KB, 800x600 - viewed 544 times.)
Logged

60HAWK
Small Block
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 144


Location: Kansas/Washington

WWW
« Reply #64 on: June 17, 2010, 07:18:17 pm »

whatever 60HAWK had lol!!    

Logged

Jon

91' GT, FordStrokers - 69W Longblock, TEA HP Heads, Bullet SR-Cam, EFI-Super Vic, 5 spd, Accufab headers, TeamZ,

1960 Studebaker Hawk, Stude 289, 11.0:1
Jay-Roller Cam, Custom Rods, Diamond-pistons,  ported heads, 9" ford
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,26027.0.html
Blackbetty88GT
Small Block
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 165


Location: wichita, ks

« Reply #65 on: June 17, 2010, 11:25:56 pm »

Well i don't remember what those springs were!  Stang B-out
Logged

kobra_commader
4 Banger
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 17


Location: Homer Glen IL

« Reply #66 on: May 21, 2011, 05:56:03 am »

is there a do and dont to removing the evap/charcoal canister? and smog stuff?

i got the smell of gas coming from the line that goes to my gas tank..do i plug it or what?

when i did it i was just cutten shit out...but im older and wiser now lol
Logged

my junk
1988 Ford Mustang
302 stock bottom end
gt40p heads ported by myself
explore intake
b303 cam
crane cams 1.72 roller rockers
converted to mass air
Pro-m mass air
24 pound injectors
255 lph fuel pump
centerforce DF clutch
3.73 gear
31 spline axles
stock T5
msd 6al-2
3 inch x pipe with dumps
Joel5.0
El Hombre
Administrator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 22510


Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #67 on: May 21, 2011, 07:27:27 am »

Nope..... you don't plug the line unless you install a venting gas cap. Fuel tank has to be able to breathe.
Logged

ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
kobra_commader
4 Banger
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 17


Location: Homer Glen IL

« Reply #68 on: May 21, 2011, 07:34:55 am »

Nope..... you don't plug the line unless you install a venting gas cap. Fuel tank has to be able to breathe.

ok i can smell gas smetimes should i extend the tube to like the bottom of the car and tie it off to the side out of the way of heat sorces?

right now its on the pass side cowl
Logged

my junk
1988 Ford Mustang
302 stock bottom end
gt40p heads ported by myself
explore intake
b303 cam
crane cams 1.72 roller rockers
converted to mass air
Pro-m mass air
24 pound injectors
255 lph fuel pump
centerforce DF clutch
3.73 gear
31 spline axles
stock T5
msd 6al-2
3 inch x pipe with dumps
Joel5.0
El Hombre
Administrator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 22510


Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #69 on: May 21, 2011, 07:48:45 am »

Yup..... your call on where to locate it.
Logged

ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
jmillrood
2stroke
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9


Location: JAX, FLA
351W EFI SD, Bored .040


WWW
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2011, 09:58:16 am »

Joel, regarding this issue.  Will you have the same problem with batch fire injectors, or does this only apply to SFI?  Asking b/c my rig has been exhibiting a lean condition, code 181 and then I was getting a 171 and 172.  The last two have since gone away.  After reading this I started thinking it might be due to the dizzy being installed a tooth or 2 off.  Thanks.

DON'T    Install Dizzy 1-tooth/1-plug  Off in EEC-IV Systems

Distributor installation is a synchronization exercise on its own, you're not only timing the spark events using the cam-to-dist. gear connection....you're also timing the fuel injectors priming order for a correct, and optimum, fueling pattern.

EFI/EEC-IV/SFI systems, will be screwed up if the timing pulse from the stator sensor, which incudes a narrow pulse to id cylinder #1, is not synchronized with the firing order....the PIP pulse graph looks something like...



The narrower #1 Cyl. id pulse (and the rest) is generated by the vanes rotor to time, or synchronize fuel injectors with the spark firing order, and engine intake cycle....and spark generation as well.



How important is the timing/synchronization of the injection-to-spark events?.... Imagine you install it causing the #1 plug to be shifted to the next plug to the left (CCW), and firing order starts one location "advanced". The engine will start and run, but fuel injection pattern will follow a "waste injection" pattern.

By advancing the #1 cyl. id pulse, you now have the injector priming a closed intake valve....this will cause a "fuel mist waste", since it will wet the closed valve and some fuel evaporation will happen. This will affect performance and fuel consumption..... the EEC-IV system's Adaptive Strategy will see a lean codition from the O2 sensors, and will force the system to try to compensate, by increasing Injectors Pulse Width (IPW), you know, to ensure a stoichiometry value of 14.64:1.......causing more fuel to be injected "at the wrong time" , wasting more fuel, screwing up atomization, and soaking the intake valve fuel entry side = lousy performance + excessive fuel consumption + $$$ down the exhaust.

DO IT RIGHT   Install Dizzy Correctly

The following diagrams show the correct firing order and #1 cylinder location on the cap + the distributor's relative position (for normal initial timing adjustments), using the TFI module connector as the reference for the distributor's housing orientation.





Follow the GREEN arrow...check distributor orientation using the TFI connector as the reference...the following pictures should clear any doubts. Correct dizzy installation and plugs location on the cap,


Click Please



Questions, problems?....

START A THREAD!....


Distributor pictures courtesy of Hackfabrication....... Thanx!
Logged

351W bored .040 SD w/mild Crane cam, but otherwise stock internals & BBK equal lengths
TKFD
Small Block
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 107

Location: Perth, Australia

« Reply #71 on: January 25, 2015, 07:54:51 am »

Hi Joel, just need to check I didn't do one of your don't do's  Undecided

Install an open breather to any of the valve covers if the PCV valve setup is kept. This will cause an Unmetered Air (vacuum leak) condition due to air from the atmosphere been sucked into the crankcase. Fresh air intake to the crankcase (specially on MA EFI systems) have to be sourced from the air volume metered/measured by the MAF (reason for the OEM breather hose from the oil tube to the TB on the RH valve cover). Otherwise, a lean condition + idle control problems are likely to occur. If you want to install breathers, the PCV valve must be removed so an unmetered air condition is avoided.

this is what I have done - I am using a crankcase evac system (vac-u-pan) that draws from both valve covers, but the PCV valve port at rear of intake is also plumbed (T-fitting) into one side. both of these are then plumbed into a saikou michi 3L catch tank, and then down to the vac-u-pan. Crankcase vac is not at all plumbed into intake. Do you see a problem with this?

Runs fine apart from a niggling cold-start prob. Been tuned using QH.

what do you think?
Logged
Joel5.0
El Hombre
Administrator
Big Block
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 22510


Location: Puerto Rico
Miracles?.... by appointment only!


« Reply #72 on: January 25, 2015, 08:25:42 am »

As long as engine or manifold vacuum is not sourced/used for crankcase pressure management, the post-MAF intake section is closed and no vacuum leaks are present, the "unmetered air condition" is non-existent.
Logged

ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
TKFD
Small Block
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 107

Location: Perth, Australia

« Reply #73 on: January 25, 2015, 09:11:39 am »

Thanks Joel,
I'm good with all that. I think the set-up works really well. I have good crankcase vent (in fact have (-)ve pressure due to vac-u-pan), and engine breaths well. Its a FordStrokers motor 347 stroker.
Logged
Chickenbone
Small Block
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 110

Location: Joisey

« Reply #74 on: July 17, 2015, 10:55:12 am »

Okay, I'll be beating a dying horse with this post.  I got old style valve covers years ago at a swap meet.  They're beautiful, but they have holes for a breather and oil fill.  I am swapping in an EFI 351W in place of the 5.0L in my Crown Vic.  If I install one of those Trick Flow oil-fill necks and I plug the breather on the other hole, will that avoid an unmetered air source?  I plan to keep the pcv system.

Chickenbone
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines



408 Stroker