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General Tech => Turbos => Topic started by: Farmer83 on June 20, 2013, 11:32:34 pm



Title: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 20, 2013, 11:32:34 pm
I'm kicking the turbo idea around & could use some advice on what I need to make 750+ hp. The 2 choices I have in pistons will either put me at 9.27 or 9.46 compression. I'm running a 205cc head & a super vic intake.I could use some advice on cam selection as well. I am a total boost virgin & could really use some help so I get it right this time.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: 289nate on June 21, 2013, 01:24:03 am
Mighty Mouse would be a good person to ask this question to.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: nealysa on June 21, 2013, 02:33:24 am
What are your goals?  Street?  Drag?  Mine makes a little over 630 whp with a PT78 and 383 ci on only 10# and pump gas, but you might want better control for drag racing than I have with a decent 88mm turbo.  It would be less of a light switch with boost.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 21, 2013, 09:09:53 am
 Mostly street driving with an occasional run at the track. I would like to be able to run it on pump gas as well. The goal is to make great power in a broad rpm range & still be able to drive it.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: 69 Merc on June 21, 2013, 06:24:26 pm
Mostly street driving with an occasional run at the track. I would like to be able to run it on pump gas as well. The goal is to make great power in a broad rpm range & still be able to drive it.


Just curious what sort of street tires are you planning on?      :burnout


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 21, 2013, 07:27:29 pm
Mostly street driving with an occasional run at the track. I would like to be able to run it on pump gas as well. The goal is to make great power in a broad rpm range & still be able to drive it.


Just curious what sort of street tires are you planning on?      :burnout
MT drag radials.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: 69 Merc on June 21, 2013, 10:41:28 pm
Mostly street driving with an occasional run at the track. I would like to be able to run it on pump gas as well. The goal is to make great power in a broad rpm range & still be able to drive it.


Just curious what sort of street tires are you planning on?      :burnout



MT drag radials.


I have had mine since last Christmas - they are bald after only 1500 miles on the street.       :whistling:


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: mighty mouse on June 22, 2013, 08:49:45 am
My first concern in that compression ratio with a turbo on pump gas. Cam selectionand turbo sizing will be ultra critical.  Are you willing to use meth injection? E85?


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 22, 2013, 08:53:47 am
I was considering E85,Plenty of that around here.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: jayh on June 22, 2013, 04:47:03 pm
look up Lil John Motorsports Solutions


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 22, 2013, 06:03:08 pm
Looks like he keeps some fast company, I called & left a message. Thanks.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: mighty mouse on June 22, 2013, 10:13:48 pm
Blowthru or EFI? Stick or auto?


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 22, 2013, 10:44:50 pm
Planning on blowthru with a c4. I have two converters, a 3000 & a 4500. The highest gear I have is a 3.73 for now.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: 69 Merc on June 23, 2013, 01:52:24 am
Planning on blowthru with a c4. I have two converters, a 3000 & a 4500. The highest gear I have is a 3.73 for now.


Not sure the race weight of your ride - but at 750hp or more your trans guy better really know his game if you will be using a C4!


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 23, 2013, 06:48:55 am
The car was going to weigh under 2800 na but the turbo setup will add some. I have a buddy with a performance transmission shop who just might know a trick or two. If a c4 won't do it I will look into a glide.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 23, 2013, 02:30:05 pm
After doing some research & seeing the kind of torque a turbo can produce I believe 600 hp or so will be plenty.  :jawdrop:


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: 69 Merc on June 23, 2013, 05:01:30 pm
After doing some research & seeing the kind of torque a turbo can produce I believe 600 hp or so will be plenty.  :jawdrop:


I would shoot for as high as you realistically can do and afford - Jim Woods does excellent work and I know the Merc is heavy but the 408W needs to have double the power it is making now because I am fully used to it and it almost seems slow TO ME ...

I am saving $ for the future day when I will have Woody build me a Dart blocked SBF complete with a ProCharger S/C on it -  the fat-assed Merc needs 4 digits of HP (1000+)


 :naughty:


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 23, 2013, 06:39:47 pm
I've got to get some help before I shoot for anything. I even joined Theturboforums & found alot of info but only some of it makes any sense. Looks like reading material is all I'm going to get over there as it appears I've been snubbed, No luck at the Corral either lol.



Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: 69 Merc on June 23, 2013, 10:13:44 pm
I've got to get some help before I shoot for anything. I even joined Theturboforums & found alot of info but only some of it makes any sense. Looks like reading material is all I'm going to get over there as it appears I've been snubbed, No luck at the Corral either lol.




Mighty Mouse has experience with turbos and he is a good guy who will help you with your questions.

I'm just trying to steer you in the right direction ...


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 24, 2013, 09:37:17 am
I was hoping he would pop back in but he's probably busy with a project of his own. I appreciate you trying to help Merc.

I am just trying to figure out what will be needed for my goals so I can go into this with a plan. I will still have to sell my n/a stuff off to get the turbo project going.

I would like to start out with minimal boost so I can learn as I go w/o melting my junk down. I will also be checking out what fi parts will run used. After reading up a bit, The carb route might be a little tougher to tune than I thought it would be. I'm not opposed to either yet but don't have enough info to make a decision...


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: mighty mouse on June 24, 2013, 02:29:07 pm
Blowthru carbs are only a tuning headache when you are either too stubborn or too cheap to just buy a good one from a reputable custom carb builder.  I recommend Kevin at CSU, but there are other good ones too..

EFI makes turbo - boost - seamless.  It really seems to help the boost come in softly and the drive-ability is noticeably better.  But its at a substantial cost increase.

If this is mostly a street driven car, and not a mostly track car - keep the turbo on the small side A/R wise.  If you are willing to run "twins", they can be very beneficial to keeping the car responsive down low.  Most people that gripe about "turbo lag" fit into one of two categories. 1. They are running to large of a turbo - that makes great power up top, but is sized for racing; or 2. They don't know how to tune a turbo car.

What is your budget here Farmer?  Are you going to fab your own kit or do you just want to buy one?


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 24, 2013, 07:40:05 pm
My budget will be small lol. I'm going to try & do it with the sale of my cam,lifters & headers. If I can't find something used I'll try to fab something up. I have some thick shorty's but they are only 1 5/8" & might be too small for the AFR's. :dunno

The car will see more time on the street than it will the track for sure. I have a 20 mile drive just to get to the nearest town with any cruise action & it would be great to make this drive with no worries.

Looks like the carb will be pretty high but I might be able to make a deal with Quick Fuel & trade my Q750 in for an E85 bt 750. I will need a different regulator & pump as well but those can be traded back also.

Thanks, I was about to bail on the turbo idea if I couldn't find some help.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: 69 Merc on June 24, 2013, 10:12:51 pm
My budget will be small lol. I'm going to try & do it with the sale of my cam,lifters & headers. If I can't find something used I'll try to fab something up. I have some thick shorty's but they are only 1 5/8" & might be too small for the AFR's. :dunno


Ask Mighty Mouse but IIRC 1-5/8" headers would probably be enough for your turbo idea ...


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 26, 2013, 02:01:29 pm
Talked to Lil John & he thought 1 5/8 primary's might limit things when turned up. He also said a Borg Warner s400 is what I should consider using.

How is a turbo of that size going to act on the street? I was told it will support up to 1100 hp on my engine. I want to start out at 5psi until I know what I'm doing & want to be sure I can do this.



Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: mighty mouse on June 26, 2013, 04:59:38 pm
If you are on a tight budget, there is nothing wrong with using a 1 5/8" header turned around to start your hot side.  Cut the ends off and weld on V-bands.  You will thank me later.

The S400 series is/are T6 Turbos.  The most popular of that series is the S475 and the S480.  Both will drive an engine like yours into the bottom 9's and high 8's respectively.

They are UBER heavy and require major bracing.  Do not rely on the headers to hold it up like the T4s out there.

I put together a S400 series build a couple years back.  I was careful how I purchased every part.  I did most of the work myself, and my brother helped with the rest.  A conservative estimate - I had $3500 in it when I was said and done.

You could probably do a master power 76mm T4 turbo with chinese wastegate, blowoff and intercooler for around $2k - $2500 if you do most of the work yourself and flip some shorties.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 26, 2013, 06:22:48 pm
I thought the s400 sounded like more than I needed. Can parts be bought to mate to my shorties or will I have to fab the whole setup? Also, Is the Masterpower turbo a good enough piece to last awhile?

What kind of power could I expect from the MP 76 mm?
 Is an intercooler absolutely needed on E85?
 


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: mighty mouse on June 26, 2013, 07:26:18 pm
I thought the s400 sounded like more than I needed. Can parts be bought to mate to my shorties or will I have to fab the whole setup? Also, Is the Masterpower turbo a good enough piece to last awhile?

What kind of power could I expect from the MP 76 mm?
 Is an intercooler absolutely needed on E85?
 

There are some MP76mm turbos that have gone 100,000 miles already.  I know one guy how keeps pushing bearings on em though.  The 70mm MP turbos have a damn near perfect record though... but I would say that turbo is just to small for you.

You can use ball socket flanges (which leak under boost) or use Vbands.  You can get all the junk on Ebay or pick a favorite company to buy them from.  Scummit and Jegs all carry the junk as well...

An intercooler is not REQUIRED when using E85, no.

You can also just buy an On3 kit with the MP turbo upgrade.  I have seen some junk come from them, but others say its all great.  YCYDYP. 


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 26, 2013, 09:06:43 pm
I will go v-band for sure.
 I might have found a gt45 with a 76mm housing & a 1.04 or 1.14 exhaust.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: nealysa on June 27, 2013, 03:17:57 pm
This is a pretty good deal.  http://www.vsracing.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1320&osCsid=2c7f875c16d8d456de6703b09fbe0caf


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: RunninHorse on June 27, 2013, 03:35:05 pm
Is that 352 originally a 352 or was it bored/stroked to get to 352?  I'm curious because my '66 F100 came with a 352 and I haven't seen one modified to the same extent as yours.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 27, 2013, 04:03:49 pm
Not a bad deal at all. Looked for a phone# but couldn't find one.

Mine is an 8.2 combo, Just a .060 347.
 I had a 67 short bed with a 352 way back, Wish I still had it.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: nealysa on June 27, 2013, 09:09:15 pm
VS Racing 972-987-5607 NEW NUMBER Closed during Lunch hours 11am -12pm CST TIme.
M-F 9am - 4pm CST TIME
email mailto:sales@vsracing.net - sales@vsracing.net /domestic advisor


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 27, 2013, 10:10:01 pm
VS Racing 972-987-5607 NEW NUMBER Closed during Lunch hours 11am -12pm CST TIme.
M-F 9am - 4pm CST TIME
email mailto:sales@vsracing.net - sales@vsracing.net /domestic advisor

Thanks, I appreciate that.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on June 30, 2013, 08:27:54 am
Back to the basics lol. I'm on the search for a turbo at this point & would like to hear what you think would be the ideal turbo size for me. I'm talking compressor & exhaust a/r "sizes". What about "trim", I'm seeing p & q trim turbos & not sure what this means. Could someone please set me up with some numbers & maybe some insight as to what they mean?


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: nealysa on June 30, 2013, 10:12:45 pm
Ideal based on what? Back pressure? Power?  Under hood fitment?  Price? Etc. 


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on July 01, 2013, 08:16:20 am
Ideal based on what? Back pressure? Power?  Under hood fitment?  Price? Etc. 

Not sure about the back pressure question.

600 hp with room to grow to 800 or so.

Car will have a 3" cowl hood, Wanting to stay under it.

It has been said that 1 5/8" headers will work so I will assume a 2 1/2" cross over pipe will be fine also. Not sure what size down pipe I need ( 3 or 3.5 ).

Ideally I want to get a custom hr cam ground & run around on it na until I can gather the pieces necessary for the turbo setup. I am not sure if the car will run well with a turbo specific cam w/o the turbo or not.

Just looking for numbers specific to size & correct for my engine so I know what to look for.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: nealysa on July 01, 2013, 03:14:19 pm
A 76mm or 78mm will easily fit the bill, keep the packaging relatively easy - oh, and you can more than likely not need to get a true custom set-up.  You can save money with the advise Mighty Mouse gave, too.


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: Farmer83 on July 01, 2013, 05:13:45 pm
Ok, 76mm it is. Now what about the compressor & exhaust housing a/r? Or will just any old 76mm pretty much do? Mighty Mouse mentioned keeping the a/r small for the street. I have seen 76's with a/r's as small as .61 up to .96, Just trying to determine what a/r will be the best for the street without sacrificing performance later when turned up.

I will be going with the low buck approach Mighty Mouse suggested. I can't see paying a bunch of $$ for something that may not fit. Will the flanges be Ok on standard flipped shorties? They look a little thin (pacesetters).


Title: Re: Turbo size for 352ci?
Post by: nealysa on July 01, 2013, 09:09:01 pm
Search for something similar to what you want to build.
http://www.theturboforums.com/forums/234-The-Turbo-Builds-Board
http://www.theturboforums.com/forums/224-DIY-and-Junkyard-Turbo-Tech