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General Tech => Aftermarket Tuners - Generally => Topic started by: knucklefux on May 16, 2013, 08:47:11 pm



Title: which EFI?
Post by: knucklefux on May 16, 2013, 08:47:11 pm
i currently have a megasquirt (MS2) on my ride.  i don't like it.  it doesn't support ford IAC very well, and it has other issues that i'm just not happy about.  i can either convert it to MS3 or move to a more refined EFI setup.

here's the list of the ones i'm considering:

FAST XFI

big stuff 3

FAST EZ EFI

what i'd really like to be able to do is keep my stock distributor and ignition (95 GT) and let the ECM control it.  that rules out the EZ EFI, but i could get an MSD 6AL-2 to program the spark curve.

i'd also prefer native support of ford sensors, which kind of eliminates FAST stuff in general.

the most important thing is that it be reliable and easy to get an engine to run right.  this is my issue with megsquirt.  i'm sure some people can get it to work well, but i've not been able to. 

what i'm looking for is personal experience with any of the above.  i'm looking for streetability more than max performance.  that means a steady idle with the AC on, no random misfires, no letting the engine die randomly.

any input?  going back to the stock ECM is basically not an option.

 :rock


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: jayh on May 16, 2013, 09:23:44 pm
you left out holley?


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: mighty mouse on May 16, 2013, 09:28:20 pm
Holley systems are very nice. we also have several members on here that run them...and one member that is a Holley efi tech, and a REALLY good one at that!


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: knucklefux on May 16, 2013, 10:13:30 pm
the only holley system i can find is the dominator, and it's all GM specific shit.

at this point, it looks like i'm going to have to deal with some level of GM shit no matter what i do if i want it to work.

i'm kinda leaning to ez efi, actually.  the only thing that is stopping me at this point is that it's only batch fire.  if it was sequential, i'd be all over it.  ez efi 2.0 is supposed to be out by now, and it's going to do both ignition control AND sequential.  the way my luck runs, it'll come out the day after i buy something else  :disgust:


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: jayh on May 16, 2013, 10:16:24 pm
the new holley stuff is supposed to be badass. its self learning


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: knucklefux on May 16, 2013, 10:21:42 pm
all of the systems i've listed have self learning features  :drink


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: 72MavSprint on May 16, 2013, 10:33:55 pm
If EZ EFI is made by the same company that makes the EZ wiring harness, I wouldn't buy it.  :dissap: Coping with the defects in their wiring harness is burning me out on my F100 project.  Tech support is useless.   They don't answer the phone and they don't return my calls.  I would have been better off buying a universal fuse block and a bunch of wire.


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: garsten on May 16, 2013, 10:40:33 pm
if money is no object...

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,34873.msg392028.html#msg392028

i feel your pain about the GM stuff.  i would probably have a fast system if not for the sensor and harness mess.

if i was starting from scratch or was converting from carb to efi, i would use the fast xfi system.

cheers, claude


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: knucklefux on May 16, 2013, 10:57:39 pm
If EZ EFI is made by the same company that makes the EZ wiring harness, I wouldn't buy it.  :dissap: Coping with the defects in their wiring harness is burning me out on my F100 project.  Tech support is useless.   They don't answer the phone and they don't return my calls.  I would have been better off buying a universal fuse block and a bunch of wire.

EZ EFI is a FAST product, which is part of comp cams.  i don't know if the two are related, but i've read some horror stories about the customer service at FAST.


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: knucklefux on May 16, 2013, 11:12:36 pm
if money is no object...

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,34873.msg392028.html#msg392028

i feel your pain about the GM stuff.  i would probably have a fast system if not for the sensor and harness mess.

if i was starting from scratch or was converting from carb to efi, i would use the fast xfi system.

cheers, claude

looks like pro M has a standalone ECM for under $2K that works with ford stuff and won't require buying other stuff (sensors, spark box, etc).  that's not too far out of line, and the simplicity factor is definitely appealing.


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: mighty mouse on May 16, 2013, 11:54:54 pm
Your call...but a. the Holley kit comes with all the sensors. b. who gives a shit what company junk they are modeled after. C. I run the Holley with my stock ford efi distributor. d. it will work with the ford sensors simply by imputing the ford data... and e. the new style GM  sensors and plugs are so much nicer than the old 5.0 ford junk...its not even funny!

Don't make it harder than it needs to be dude!

I hope i make sense. I hate posting from my phone.


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: knucklefux on May 17, 2013, 12:26:37 am
yeah, you make sense.

unless i'm missing something, the holley deal would be about $2200.

does that sound about right?


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: knucklefux on May 17, 2013, 12:40:17 am
hold the fucking phone...

i just discovered that there's also a holley HP EFI that's about $1500 for the whole shebang, and does more than i expect to ever need.  :wonder:


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: FordRacing250 on May 17, 2013, 05:11:46 am
If EZ EFI is made by the same company that makes the EZ wiring harness, I wouldn't buy it.  :dissap: Coping with the defects in their wiring harness is burning me out on my F100 project.  Tech support is useless.   They don't answer the phone and they don't return my calls.  I would have been better off buying a universal fuse block and a bunch of wire.
Different companies all together.
What kind of problems you having with the harness? I have one sitting on my shelf was going to use for a project, I know a few people who have used them also with no issues. I do think they are an offshore harness. I do have a kwik wire harness for my F100 also. Between the 2, I think the Kwik harness is a bit nicer


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: mighty mouse on May 17, 2013, 09:16:41 am
hold the fucking phone...

i just discovered that there's also a holley HP EFI that's about $1500 for the whole shebang, and does more than i expect to ever need.  :wonder:

Well...yeah!


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: knucklefux on May 17, 2013, 09:53:16 am
it's way harder than it should be to figure out what you need to buy to get one of these systems going.

i finally figured out that i need the ecu & harness kit with a tfi ignition adapter harness.

gotta figure out the tps and iac now.


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: garsten on May 17, 2013, 10:09:03 am
hold the fucking phone...

i just discovered that there's also a holley HP EFI that's about $1500 for the whole shebang, and does more than i expect to ever need.  :wonder:

i'd like to know what you end up with.  i'm running the mega squirt 2 plug and pray replacement computer in my 68 f100 with no issues, but i don't run AC.

it's way harder than it should be to figure out what you need to buy to get one of these systems going.

i finally figured out that i need the ecu & harness kit with a tfi ignition adapter harness.

gotta figure out the tps and iac now.

i'd give holley a call.  it's probably not as difficult if you talk to the right people.

so nathan, who is the holley tuner?

cheers, claude


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: knucklefux on May 17, 2013, 12:17:42 pm
i've pretty much set my sights on the holley HP setup.

this megasquirt has never worked right, and i can't figure out why.  i first installed it controlling ignition only with a carb, and it worked like a champ.

once i converted to injection too, it stopped revving past 5K.  i messed with the tune, i converted to MAF, i installed bigger injectors,  nothing's helped.  add that to the lousy IAC, random misfires, random engine stopping, and ridiculous cranking time and i'm done with megasquirt.  it may be that i'm just too stupid to use it.   :dunno  that's why i'm looking for something that's more idiot friendly :drink 

fortunately i got a good deal on it, so i'm not going to take a hit when i sell it.


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: 72MavSprint on May 17, 2013, 12:45:08 pm
If EZ EFI is made by the same company that makes the EZ wiring harness, I wouldn't buy it.  :dissap: Coping with the defects in their wiring harness is burning me out on my F100 project.  Tech support is useless.   They don't answer the phone and they don't return my calls.  I would have been better off buying a universal fuse block and a bunch of wire.
Different companies all together.
What kind of problems you having with the harness? I have one sitting on my shelf was going to use for a project, I know a few people who have used them also with no issues. I do think they are an offshore harness. I do have a kwik wire harness for my F100 also. Between the 2, I think the Kwik harness is a bit nicer

I started a new thread in the products forum to avoid hijacking this one.  http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,35198.0.html

Copied your post over there and responded.


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: mighty mouse on May 17, 2013, 02:15:10 pm
it's way harder than it should be to figure out what you need to buy to get one of these systems going.

i finally figured out that i need the ecu & harness kit with a tfi ignition adapter harness.

gotta figure out the tps and iac now.

Ya know... I have already done this...
What exactly are you wanting to do?


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: mighty mouse on May 17, 2013, 02:17:39 pm
or...

ask this guy!

http://sbftech.com/index.php?action=profile;u=41310


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: CDW6212R on May 17, 2013, 05:45:55 pm
How hard is converting to a 96+ OBDII wiring harness and PCM from a Ford, a 302 Explorer or a 99-04 V8 Mustang? Has any business produced a wiring harness from those, or is there even just a diagram that someone put together to pull out the operating system components?

The OEM OBDII systems are excellent if you have one on your engine, the key is to make it so. The flashers that swap programs in the PCM are not cheap($300+ new), but those are the biggest expense. People pay programmers to change the tunes(by emails), or they get the extra software and learn to do it themselves.

I am not there yet myself, but I am hunting for a 99-02 automatic Mustang GT for the wiring etc. To retrofit just the PCM system to an older car shouldn't be too bad, if the main circuits of the older car are easy to tap into. Pulling out the PCM only wiring from a 96+ vehicle harness would not be simple/easy.

I'm just bringing this up in case anyone else might think the costs and end system is worth it more than a whole new aftermarket system. :question:


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: knucklefux on May 17, 2013, 08:02:51 pm
it's way harder than it should be to figure out what you need to buy to get one of these systems going.

i finally figured out that i need the ecu & harness kit with a tfi ignition adapter harness.

gotta figure out the tps and iac now.

Ya know... I have already done this...
What exactly are you wanting to do?

all i want is to get my N/A DD to run good, idle right,  and pull all the way to 7K when i want it to.  my combo now really starts to come on around 4500, which is right where the megasquirt falls on it's face.  it's incredibly infuriating.

i think i've figured out what all needs to be purchased that's holley specific to make it work:

ECU
power harness
main harness
injector harness
ignition harness
bosch WB02 from holley
GM IAT, ECT, & MAP sensors

i'm going to make my TPS and IAC work.  i'm sure the TPS won't be a problem, but after dealing with megasquirt i'm not sure about the IAC.  worst case is i have to spend another $150 on the adapter and GM IAC.


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: wywindsor on May 17, 2013, 08:22:52 pm
Why do you not want to use the factory eec. If you wanted drivabily ford had it figured pretty well. The 94/95 eec are alot better than the a9l eec. My a9p is fine with a 347 and 8# of boost. You can eliminate all the shit not needed from the eec to simplfy it. lil joe o7 shows some vid of sloppy mechanics in joels forum under aftermarket tuners. There shit is fast and sloppy. he has more vids on youube on the how and what to do.


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: knucklefux on May 17, 2013, 08:37:32 pm
a variety of reasons, really.

the biggest is that by the time i buy all the shit i'd need to go back to the EECIV, i won't spend too much more to get something that's designed to be tuned.

i hate the blinking light diagnostics for EECIV.

i'd also like to do COPs eventually.


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: jayh on May 17, 2013, 09:36:23 pm
Id be tempted to just run the LS throttle body  :dunno


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: knucklefux on May 17, 2013, 11:40:43 pm
i'm using a 6061 intake elbow...i don't think it'll work with an LS throttle body.


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: CDW6212R on May 18, 2013, 12:26:55 am
a variety of reasons, really.

the biggest is that by the time i buy all the shit i'd need to go back to the EECIV, i won't spend too much more to get something that's designed to be tuned.

i hate the blinking light diagnostics for EECIV.

i'd also like to do COPs eventually.

The 99-04 Mustang PCM uses COPs, and the Explorer 99-01 cam sensor provides the needed signal. You just need a crank sensor with those, so use the Explorer timing cover and crank sensor, with 94/95 or 96-01 front dress. Plug and play OEM parts, is it worth it? :whistling:


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: knucklefux on May 18, 2013, 10:51:28 am
No.  That stuff isn't designed to be tuned.  If I was at all interested in cobbling together OEM stuff, I wouldn't be asking about aftermarket units.


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: CDW6212R on May 18, 2013, 06:16:38 pm
I don't know what the differences are between systems, how are some made to be tuned and others are not?


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: garsten on May 18, 2013, 07:29:43 pm
I don't know what the differences are between systems, how are some made to be tuned and others are not?

i'm not trying to speak for knuckle, but this is the way i see things.

if the mfg of the hardware does not supply the required software applications and information to tune the EFI system,  the mfg did not intend for the system to be tuned.

FAST, BS 3, holley, edelbrock, and others have created hardware and supplied software to tune their aftermarket efi systems.  MegaSquirt will give you the source code and tell you how to build and compile their software if you so desire.

ford would have never guessed that the EEC-IV would have been hacked and people would be doing what they are with their hardware.  i doubt ford ever intended for the EEC-IV to be tuned by the end user.

just my opinions, cheers, claude


Title: Re: which EFI?
Post by: knucklefux on May 18, 2013, 11:05:45 pm
That pretty much explains it, really.

For me to use some form of OEM ecu and have any tuning control would end up being nearly as expensive as an aftermarket setup, only with less flexibility and a pita to tune.

With the volley setup, I can do whatever I want and if ever decide to use nitrous or boost, the ecu can handle it natively.