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RACING and RACING SUSPENSIONS => Proven Drag Combos => Topic started by: 69 Merc on January 29, 2013, 10:43:37 am



Title: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 29, 2013, 10:43:37 am
This is where it all started with me (Robert) and my 1969 Mercury Montego with friends @ SBFTech.com



http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,27178.4440/topicseen.html (http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,27178.4440/topicseen.html)


COMBO INFORMATION TEMPLATE

Provided by:

01. Block
  • Displacement:
  • CR:
02. Heads
  • Brand:
  • Model:
  • Ported?:
03. Camshaft (If the camshaft is custom, NOT providing this information is understandable, and NOT expected)
  • Brand:
  • Grind Number/Model:
  • Int./Exh. Duration @.050":
  • Int./Exh. Lift:
  • Lobe Separation Angle:
04. Induction
  • Carbureted/EFI:
  • Intake:
  • Carb/Injector Size:
  • Throttle Body Size:
05. Tuner:
06. Exhaust
  • Style: 
  • Diameter:
  • Catted:
  • "X" or "H":
  • Mufflers:
07. Power Adder:
08. Transmission
  • Manual/Auto:
  • Model:
  • Plate/Clutch:
  • Converter Stall:
09. Gears
  • Style:
  • Ratio:
  • Differential Style:
10. Rear Suspension Setup;
11. Front Suspension Setup:
12. Tires:
13. Car Weight:


Time Slip:
  • 60ft:
  • 300ft:
  • 1/8th ET:
  • 1/8th MPH:
  • 1/4 ET:
  • 1/4 MPH:
Dyno Data:
  • FWHP: 
  • FWTQ:
  • RWHP:
  • RWTQ:

COMMENTS/OBSERVATIONS:



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 29, 2013, 10:48:08 am
I am happy that I don't get any more starter kick-back if I spin the engine for a couple of seconds and then turn on the plugs.

 ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on January 29, 2013, 11:06:49 am
Robert - I modified your first post with the format we like to see with these types of threads.  Please fill out the form for others to have a quick reference to your combo and how it performed at the track.

Thank you!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 29, 2013, 05:06:45 pm
COMBO INFORMATION TEMPLATE

Provided by:  Jim Woods @ FordStrokers

01. Block
Displacement:  408ci Windsor
CR:  10:1

02. Heads
Brand:  TFS ported by T.E.A.
Model:  TW 205cc
Ported?:  Yes

03. Camshaft (If the camshaft is custom, NOT providing this information is understandable, and NOT expected)
Brand:  Cam Motion
Grind Number/Model: 
Int./Exh. Duration @.050":  251/256
Int./Exh. Lift:  .624"/.609"
Lobe Separation Angle:  108*

04. Induction
Carbureted/EFI:  QFT racing carb
Intake:  Super Victor
Carb/Injector Size:  850cfm
Throttle Body Size:  N/A

05. Tuner:  N/A

06. Exhaust
Style:  Longtube
Diameter:  1-3/4" x 3"
Catted:  N/A
"X" or "H":  Nope
Mufflers:  Delta 50 Flowmaster

07. Power Adder:  N/A

08. Transmission
Manual/Auto:  Auto
Model:  C4
Plate/Clutch:  N/A
Converter Stall:  5000rpm

09. Gears
Ratio:  4.56:1 
Differential:  9"
 
10. Rear Suspension Setup:  Modified leaf springs and Lakewood traction bars

11. Front Suspension Setup:  Stock with sway bar removed.

12. Tires:  M/T ET Street radials 315/60-15

13. Car Weight:  3600#

Time Slip:
60ft:  1.878
330ft:  5.006
1/8th ET:  7.647
1/8th MPH:  90.78
1/4 ET:  N/A
1/4 MPH:  N/A
Dyno Data:  N/A
FWHP:  N/A
FWTQ:  N/A
RWHP:  N/A
RWTQ:  N/A

COMMENTS/OBSERVATIONS:  I will be upgrading to a Caltracs suspension set-up for the rear, Caltracs adjustable rear shocks and some 90/10 front shocks when I can.




Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 29, 2013, 11:15:16 pm
BTW -- those times were my first time ever racing at a track.

And they were on some 27" Nittos with the front sway bar attached.  I feel that the Merc is better with the M/T 29.5 DR and with no sway bar ...



Next time which will be soon will be some PB's!      ;)

Even though I've heard (?) that the cooler it is the more oxygen to burn but the sticky tires don't grip as well?

 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on January 30, 2013, 12:02:12 am
5. Tuner = Owner  :)

The track will have decent grip once it gets some heat in it on cool nights.  The more cars with slicks the better it'll get.  Usually my best 60ft and ET are my last pass at Irwindale on Thursday nights.



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on January 30, 2013, 12:44:39 am
 :popcorn:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: wywindsor on January 30, 2013, 01:03:43 am
Sure would like to see more combo's here when people start posting. Or moved to this location


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 30, 2013, 10:34:31 am
Well don't laugh (oh go ahead!) this morning the Merc kicked-back pretty fierce on the starter after I thought that I had it under control.  I gave it a pre-spin touch of the gas pedal and it did NOT like that.

So I am having to install that Digital 6-Plus after all before I wreck my starter and/or flexplate.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on January 30, 2013, 10:45:19 am
So I am having to install that Digital 6-Plus after all before I wreck my starter and/or flexplate.

Well that's good for you and for me.  You'll have some nice new tech on your ride and I don't have to be tempted to buy it off you.   :orglaugh


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on January 30, 2013, 11:41:02 am
Hey Robert,
I know you're heading down the caltrac route now, but are you still interested in some pics of my 4-link install?  I found the prints last weekend.  I'll scan some if so.

Art Morrison has some nice front end stuff too if you want to get ride of those damn shock towers :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 30, 2013, 05:08:01 pm
Hey Robert,
I know you're heading down the caltrac route now, but are you still interested in some pics of my 4-link install?  I found the prints last weekend.  I'll scan some if so.

Art Morrison has some nice front end stuff too if you want to get ride of those damn shock towers :)


Yes, please.  I can weld -- the problem is just finding the time to do it.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 30, 2013, 10:45:23 pm
the roller spring perches will help as much as taking the swaybar off


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on January 31, 2013, 12:55:44 am
Hey Robert,
I know you're heading down the caltrac route now, but are you still interested in some pics of my 4-link install?  I found the prints last weekend.  I'll scan some if so.

Art Morrison has some nice front end stuff too if you want to get ride of those damn shock towers :)


Yes, please.  I can weld -- the problem is just finding the time to do it.
Not to knock your supurb welding skills but you cant weld to the level of installing a 4 link kit. Certian welds are best left to professionals especially when they pose a chase of you getting killed or killing someone else is involved.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on January 31, 2013, 08:27:39 am
I think you should keep this strictly as a results thread and continue the rambling in the other one  :dunno


Robert cold engines want fuel. maybe you should try a carb with a choke on it?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 31, 2013, 09:01:14 am

Not to knock your supurb welding skills but you cant weld to the level of installing a 4 link kit.


LMAO!  I beg to differ.

In the photos my welding skills seem lacking because I'm using a flux-core welder maybe because of the splatter look -- but trust me I can weld properly with enough penetration as needed to maintain structural integrity.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 31, 2013, 09:03:09 am
I think you should keep this strictly as a results thread and continue the rambling in the other one  :dunno


Robert cold engines want fuel. maybe you should try a carb with a choke on it?


This forum only allows 300 pages max.

I am not changing my carb.  I know about cold engine wants.  But too much fuel in the chamber and it kicks back against the starter.  It is random and picky.

I will be installing the MSD box next week.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 31, 2013, 09:07:59 am
the roller spring perches will help as much as taking the swaybar off


Thanks for reminding me about those -- they are also on my "list"!      :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on January 31, 2013, 09:48:18 am
 ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: wywindsor on January 31, 2013, 07:41:56 pm
Go EFI


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 31, 2013, 09:48:47 pm
Go EFI

OMG!!!      :jawdrop:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on January 31, 2013, 10:24:05 pm
Can you imagine Robert with all that power and control.  Probably immediately lock the timing, lock the pulsewidth and lock the IAC... :D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 09, 2013, 05:18:50 pm
Well, I had called Summit racing two different times and they said "no problem, the MSD unit should arrive at your address in 3 to 4 business days" after I had sent it back to them figuring that I didn't need it but I later on had regretted sending it back to them and called them to cancel the send-back.  LOL!

You see, the very next day after I had sent it packing back to them by FedEx the Merc gave me another starter kick-back.

Well, long story short Summit said that they would send it back (I of course said that I will pay for the ride back to me) to me but they didn't and instead gave me my purchase price credited back to my account.

Well the good news is this past 8 or 9 days or so I have successfully learned how to start the Merc in the cold mornings using separate switches for the starter motor and the spark plug ignition power without giving it any gas the first time I spin the engine and I have not had any further starter kick-back problems!

The key is the first time (whenever) to just spin the engine and then a few seconds later to turn on the spark plugs.  Then if it won't start the first try (like on cold mornings when the engine needs to be richer than normal) I can touch the gas pedal a little bit before the second try.  If I give it any gas on the first try it kicks-back.  Otherwise it will start up either on the first try (if it's warm) or on the second try (if it's cold).  No more problems.

Picky-assed Pertronix distributor 32* of timing locked-out Merc!      ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on February 09, 2013, 09:20:13 pm
;D

Jesus christ joe.. you think he'd realize the other thread was on 301 before a mod got a chance to lock in per request  :P


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on February 09, 2013, 09:39:27 pm
;D

Jesus christ joe.. you think he'd realize the other thread was on 301 before a mod got a chance to lock in per request  :P

I was just trying to setup a priceless joke. I wanted to see the responses if one of the mods caught on, and locked it for fun at 300.

All the mods are dip sticks for not doing it!  ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on February 09, 2013, 10:01:55 pm
its okay it seems to have worked


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 10, 2013, 09:52:01 pm

.......then a few seconds later to turn on the spark plugs.

Turn on the spark plugs???


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 10, 2013, 10:41:26 pm

.......then a few seconds later to turn on the spark plugs.

Turn on the spark plugs???


IOW I have a totally separate switch that feeds power to my starter motor and a different switch that feeds power to my ignition system -- two different electrical circuits.

With the ignition system switch off the plugs are NOT getting any power.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 10, 2013, 11:15:32 pm
I take it you have some kind of toggle inline with the power supply to the pertronix module in the distributor?

I have something similar for my HEI module that allows me to crank without any ignition taking place.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 11, 2013, 02:22:45 am
;D

Jesus christ joe.. you think he'd realize the other thread was on 301 before a mod got a chance to lock in per request  :P

I was just trying to setup a priceless joke. I wanted to see the responses if one of the mods caught on, and locked it for fun at 300.

All the mods are dip sticks for not doing it!  ;D

I was driving my car, like Robert was, while this was posted Mr. Joe.  :dunno  ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on February 11, 2013, 09:56:24 am
pump it!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 11, 2013, 11:34:57 am
I take it you have some kind of toggle inline with the power supply to the pertronix module in the distributor?



Yes, I have an inline toggle switch to the Pertronix module and the ignition coil.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: wywindsor on February 11, 2013, 07:10:27 pm
EFI  :yes:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on February 11, 2013, 09:14:40 pm
EFI  :yes:
Why would you wanna complicate shit.. lol


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 11, 2013, 09:16:05 pm
I drove to lunch today.  For whatever reason (probably 'cuz it's Monday) I thought mistakenly that my gas pedal assembly was sticking a little bit when I wasn't pressing on it.  So I taped it a tiny bit after I shut off the Merc.  Oops, because that little tap of the gas pedal partially flooded the intake ...

So when I tried starting it a couple of hours later after work it gave my starter another fucking kick back -- and not an easy one, either.

 :bang




So after all of that I changed the ignition timing from 32* to 30* and called it a night.  Hopefully that will be enough to quit that B.S.!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: wywindsor on February 11, 2013, 09:33:44 pm
Why would you wanna complicate shit.. lol

  I don't think efi is all that complicated. I learn the hard way SLOW. If I can learn it anyone can. Beside's better control of the engine I can't think of why not efi. 400 plus hp and decent fuel economy from the factory.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on February 11, 2013, 09:40:30 pm
I guess the other option would be put a choke on it. but I bet Robert would have trouble sleeping knowing there might be 5hp hiding lol


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on February 11, 2013, 09:44:49 pm
I drove to lunch today.  For whatever reason (probably 'cuz it's Monday) I thought mistakenly that my gas pedal assembly was sticking a little bit when I wasn't pressing on it.  So I taped it a tiny bit after I shut off the Merc.  Oops, because that little tap of the gas pedal partially flooded the intake ...

So when I tried starting it a couple of hours later after work it gave my starter another fucking kick back -- and not an easy one, either.

 :bang




So after all of that I changed the ignition timing from 32* to 30* and called it a night.  Hopefully that will be enough to quit that B.S.!

Dude why dont you get an ignition box with a start retard and be done with it? Your gonna start ripping teeth off your flexplate.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 11, 2013, 10:05:54 pm
I drove to lunch today.  For whatever reason (probably 'cuz it's Monday) I thought mistakenly that my gas pedal assembly was sticking a little bit when I wasn't pressing on it.  So I taped it a tiny bit after I shut off the Merc.  Oops, because that little tap of the gas pedal partially flooded the intake ...

So when I tried starting it a couple of hours later after work it gave my starter another fucking kick back -- and not an easy one, either.

 :bang




So after all of that I changed the ignition timing from 32* to 30* and called it a night.  Hopefully that will be enough to quit that B.S.!

Dude why dont you get an ignition box with a start retard and be done with it? Your gonna start ripping teeth off your flexplate.


I am going to see if lowering the timing will do the trick.

If it does do another kick back again I will buy that MSD Digital 6 Plus box and install it in the Merc.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on February 11, 2013, 10:07:54 pm
Do yourself a favor and stop fucking around.......Ive seen guys rip the starter ears right off the block.....your playing with fire.

Your gonna need to pull about 10degrees.......get the box.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 12, 2013, 06:58:24 am
OK, thanks.

I just ordered the MSD Digital 6 Plus from Jeg's.

Until I receive it and have it installed I will keep the timing down to 30* to hopefully ease up the start a little bit.


{sigh}


 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on February 12, 2013, 07:47:57 am
Unlocking the distributor would sure be cheaper...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 12, 2013, 09:37:25 am
Unlocking the distributor would sure be cheaper...


But maybe not in the long run ...

I had a nightmare that the "lightest advance springs" that I had earlier installed on the distributor so that all of it's timing came in early (like 1800 rpms) would one day snap when I was romping on the gas pedal sending the timing thru the roof if one of the weak fragile total advance tabs broke at WOT which could ruin the 408W quickly.

 :bang


So with the timing locked out (when I set it up I locked it in the fully advanced way) I am feeling much safer with the entire assembly.  Plus it is much easier to stab a distributor back in with the timing locked out!

 ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 500ZRACER on February 12, 2013, 11:07:48 am
Quote

I had a nightmare that the "lightest advance springs" that I had earlier installed on the distributor so that all of it's timing came in early (like 1800 rpms) would one day snap when I was romping on the gas pedal sending the timing thru the roof if one of the weak fragile total advance tabs broke at WOT which could ruin the 408W quickly.


Exactly NONE of those things will ever happen.  Maybe work on the springs to have advance in by 2500 or so.  The tabs are not weak or fragile.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on February 12, 2013, 11:31:57 am
I had a nightmare

Ahhh... the dream factor... :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 12, 2013, 11:47:54 am
Quote

I had a nightmare that the "lightest advance springs" that I had earlier installed on the distributor so that all of it's timing came in early (like 1800 rpms) would one day snap when I was romping on the gas pedal sending the timing thru the roof if one of the weak fragile total advance tabs broke at WOT which could ruin the 408W quickly.


Exactly NONE of those things will ever happen.  Maybe work on the springs to have advance in by 2500 or so.  The tabs are not weak or fragile.


Advance springs do break sometimes.  I used to run the Moroso very light springs -- they are fragile and very light with very little substance to them if you've ever seen them.

The Pertronix distributors' total advance limiting tabs are weak and fragile.

I'm not sure why you chose to argue my points but I can assure you from owning a few Pertronix distributors that I know what I'm talking about.

When my 363W threw a rod the springs and the advance tabs were broken on the other Pertronix distributor.  Sure it was a major catastrophe but I don't want it to happen again at WOT.

It's better safe than sorry.

I have run both ways -- mechanical advance and having the timing locked-out and I will not use springs ever again.




For me $300 dollars for a unit that will cure the problem and probably give me a better spark is not that much money ...      :thanx:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on February 12, 2013, 12:26:07 pm
at the end of the day you still wont have a choke? I was under the impression this was on colder starts like 50-60degrees out?

for some reason I still think she wants fuel  :dunno


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 12, 2013, 01:36:21 pm
at the end of the day you still wont have a choke? I was under the impression this was on colder starts like 50-60degrees out?

for some reason I still think she wants fuel  :dunno


I almost made a mistake about getting rid of my $900 QFT race 850cfm choke-less carb when my intake manifold gasket placement was making the engine run like shit in the higher rpms.

I love my QFT carb.  I won't get rid of it.

No chokes.


I'm not sure why you think it needs more fuel when I've told everyone a hundred times that if it's rich is will have a much greater chance of a kick-back?

 :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on February 13, 2013, 07:27:37 am
cold engines want fuel. thats all there is too it. of course cold to you might be 70degrees  :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 17, 2013, 02:08:16 pm
Well I have installed the MSD box in the Merc.

It works very well and I like it.



Now I am not getting any starter "kick-back" but a new problem has arisen probably because of all of the God damned kick-backs!

(Isn't it ALWAYS something?!?!?!?)  LMAO!      :spit:



The Merc so far has started with no problems UNLESS if I try and do a re-start right after it has been running.  IOW if (I'm guessing) the starter motor assembly is hot it performs like crap!  As in that DREADFUL grinding usually after a second or a couple of seconds after it is spinning during an engine start.

I'm guessing that it could be any or all of the following problems -- worn teeth on the flexplate, worn teeth on the Bendix gear and/or the starter's over-run clutch is starting to fail.


I am going to look into it thoroughly soon.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 17, 2013, 03:47:26 pm
Well I have installed the MSD box in the Merc.

It works very well and I like it.

Does the engine seem to run or drive differently with the MSD?

How much start up retard does it provide? What is the locked out timing set at?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 17, 2013, 05:48:21 pm
Well I have installed the MSD box in the Merc.

It works very well and I like it.

Does the engine seem to run or drive differently with the MSD?

How much start up retard does it provide? What is the locked out timing set at?


It starts up better than before (as long as no grinding is going on).  It idles better now, too.

My engine idles rich so it will probably clean the plugs up I would think.

It provides 20* of timing retard while starting.

My timing is set at 32* locked-out.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 19, 2013, 11:27:59 am
So what is the SMALLEST hi-torque gear reduction starter that I can buy for the Merc and it's headers?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 19, 2013, 01:11:55 pm
My trans guy has hooked me up with a alternator/starter new and rebuild shop in Huntington Beach.

It's all good.      ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on February 19, 2013, 11:26:52 pm
now remember Robert, 300 page limit  :P

 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 20, 2013, 10:10:32 pm
now remember Robert, 300 page limit  :P

 :party


Ha, LOL!

I seem to remember that you and maybe someone else (maybe Juiced Coupe) too mentioned "is my starter spinning the engine fast enough to do the job adequately?" and I had (mistakenly) answered that "yes it was!"?!?

Well I bought a new starter and it spins the engine over MUCH faster.  And I had also forgotten the hi-torque starters' special sound that it makes while turning over the engine.  This bad starter had stopped making that whiny almost air-wrench type of sound a while back ...

I think that I am getting slow in the head with age?  LOL!

I can't seem to remember things well anymore.      :orglaugh

The other starter which is being rebuilt so I will have a known good back-up was not turning over the engine this fast no way no how!  It's internal gearing (I am using gear reduction torque multiplication starters) was messed up so that is why I was getting the random gear grinding.

Joe checked out the flexplate and said that it was ok, good deal!

He commented that with the timing locked-out it's always a good and financially smart idea to have a starting timing retard box with these powerful engines.  Both of us are figuring that the reason why the starter died after a year because I had locked out my ignition timing a couple of months ago and have been battling with the dreaded engine starter kick-backs.  At least it didn't tear up any other things in the process.


Live and learn, one day at a time!      ;D





Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 28, 2013, 08:15:07 pm
Since yesterday I've been having a slow start or sometimes only a loud click sound when I would try and start the Merc.

Yesterday it was random but this morning it was getting a lot worse.

All of the gauges that I have inside of the Merc come in handy (a speedometer, a tach, an A/F gauge, an oil pressure gauge, a manifold vacuum gauge and last but not least a voltmeter.

I monitor them every time that I drive the Merc so I am used to their "norm" settings during my daily driving.  So when something changes I note those changes being reflected in the in-car gauges which helps me in troubleshooting the mutherfucking problems ...  
 
  :whistling:



So noting during the start-up problems that even though I was hearing the starter solenoid make it's click sound when the electromagnet is being engaged I was noticing that the expensive 800 CCA Optima battery was being drained rather quickly after each repeated start that I was doing this morning.  Earlier I had checked the battery voltage and it was an acceptable voltage.  Also I checked the charging system with the engine running and at the battery in the trunk and at the junction point by the engine were all reading 14.54 Vdc.  So that was OK.

I checked all of the wires associated with starting the Merc from the battery in the trunk all the way thru the car up to the starter and everything was solid, not loose.  And no wires/cable resting on the hot headers or any other nonsense like that.

Funny if you look all over the Net you probably would have missed that the bad fucking part was the firewall starter solenoid.  They say that if you hear a good and loud click that it probably works fine.  They warn people if you hear a bunch of quick clicks that it's probably toast.

Not always the case.  You can have a defective starter solenoid that will make the loud single click when you try and start your engine.


You see, when I was feeding the electromagnetic circuit of the solenoid everything was fine.  The problem was there was a partial short inside of the solenoid so that not 100% of the battery power was going from one of the large posts on the solenoid to the other post that is wired directly to the starter motor.  And that solenoid's internal problem was getting worse within one day.  It went from turning the engine over slowly to just making a loud single click or to turning the engine over VERY, VERY slowly and you could see a huge voltage drop while starting -- like cranking voltage dropping down to almost 8 Vdc.  Way bad.

I changed the starter solenoid for a new one and the very first attempt at starting the Merc rewarded me with it turning the engine over VERY quickly and it fired up excellently -- that is how it is supposed to be!      :rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 28, 2013, 08:29:33 pm
Edit -- I just realized that I made an error in my last post here right above, I think.      :P



I will measure the internals with a volt meter tomorrow but when I said about a "internal partial short" I am thinking that is not the case.

What is a partial short?  Inside of a starter solenoid?

There probably is an area inside of the friggin' thing that has some high resistance?

I'm not sure and I know that I am VERY tired right now so the stupid brain isn't firing on all cylinders, ya' know?!?!?

I will measure it up tomorrow and will report any finding that I can pull out of that $20 P.O.S.


 :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on February 28, 2013, 09:15:56 pm
Just like any relay or contactor, the contactor pads go bad. Causing the voltage across them to drop excessively. See it all the time in hvac where the contactor pads have burned up from arching. Or have ants in them!  :orglaugh


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 28, 2013, 09:44:32 pm
Just like any relay or contactor, the contactor pads go bad. Causing the voltage across them to drop excessively. See it all the time in hvac where the contactor pads have burned up from arching. Or have ants in them!  :orglaugh


Where does the voltage drop to?  As in the current has to go thru a high resistance area and the "power" gets dissipated in the form of heat instead of powering my starter motor to start the Merc up?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: gmatt9858 on February 28, 2013, 09:57:13 pm
Just like any relay or contactor, the contactor pads go bad. Causing the voltage across them to drop excessively. See it all the time in hvac where the contactor pads have burned up from arching. Or have ants in them!  :orglaugh


Where does the voltage drop to?  As in the current has to go thru a high resistance area and the "power" gets dissipated in the form of heat instead of powering my starter motor to start the Merc up?

The voltage is dropped across the contacts in the solenoid when they go bad(increased resistance) Ideally, there is very little resistance(and very little voltage drop) when the contacts are in good shape.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on February 28, 2013, 10:26:24 pm
Robert, I humbly suggest you invest in some basic automotive books.  Think of it as homework vs. the forum Q&A which is like being in the class room. You get the advanced stuff, but I see many times the basic automotive - 101 stuff gets you.  For me, I got started establishing a sound foundation from the Peterson line of automotive paperback books.  Don't know if they still exist  as that was 40 years ago.  They were broken up in to volumes - brakes, suspensions, electrical, tune up, bodywork, etc. etc.  But I'm sure there's better books now.  Once you start understanding the basic principles, you'll even see the advanced stuff in a new light.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 28, 2013, 10:35:55 pm
Robert, I humbly suggest you invest in some basic automotive books.  Think of it as homework vs. the forum Q&A which is like being in the class room. You get the advanced stuff, but I see many times the basic automotive - 101 stuff gets you.


If I may also humbly tell you a secret, I just might know a thing or two more than I let on.  The Net is the best place -- because no one really knows just whom they are interacting with.  No one (especially on the Net) likes to hear from someone who comes off that they know too much.  People tend to join in on the conversation if the person is showing humility and tells stuff phrasing it in question form.  My dad I remember was excellent at that, pretended to not know the answer in order to coax the right answer from people and to also teach them to use their minds but believe you me he is a smart MF.  Know what I mean?  I just might be learning and teaching at the same time.      :thumb:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 28, 2013, 10:40:13 pm
Now if you are going to test me with a question that I can't possibly answer, like "why do today's youth seem to enjoy the little Rice go-karts more than the much more powerful and better sounding muscle cars at WOT?" I can not really wrap my head around that?!??!



I wonder if it's because of the high cost of gasoline nowadays?      :'(


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 28, 2013, 10:45:42 pm
Just like any relay or contactor, the contactor pads go bad. Causing the voltage across them to drop excessively. See it all the time in hvac where the contactor pads have burned up from arching. Or have ants in them!  :orglaugh


Where does the voltage drop to?  As in the current has to go thru a high resistance area and the "power" gets dissipated in the form of heat instead of powering my starter motor to start the Merc up?

The voltage is dropped across the contacts in the solenoid when they go bad(increased resistance)


Where does this increased resistance come about?  IOW I am pretty sure that a resistor didn't all of a sudden get put inside there?

Do the contacts wear so much away that the "gap" between them increases?  Or am I daydreaming ...      :347ho:


Here are some pics (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://image.8-lug.com/f/28376287/1004_8l_05%2Bstarter_solenoid_repair%2Btwo_copper_contacts.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.8-lug.com/tech/1004_8l_starter_solenoid_repair/photo_05.html&h=1100&w=1600&sz=2045&tbnid=opVUGvUIGcMbRM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=131&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dstarter%2Bsolenoid%2Bcontacts%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=starter+solenoid+contacts&usg=__AGUmHf54J0VZ3KvSODA8M6P18OA=&docid=mFebUBY6tDmgBM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hyQwUeC8K-b-iwKep4DIAg&sqi=2&ved=0CGcQ9QEwBg&dur=352 (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://image.8-lug.com/f/28376287/1004_8l_05%2Bstarter_solenoid_repair%2Btwo_copper_contacts.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.8-lug.com/tech/1004_8l_starter_solenoid_repair/photo_05.html&h=1100&w=1600&sz=2045&tbnid=opVUGvUIGcMbRM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=131&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dstarter%2Bsolenoid%2Bcontacts%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=starter+solenoid+contacts&usg=__AGUmHf54J0VZ3KvSODA8M6P18OA=&docid=mFebUBY6tDmgBM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hyQwUeC8K-b-iwKep4DIAg&sqi=2&ved=0CGcQ9QEwBg&dur=352))


Sorry, they don't show "plunger" part of the electromagnetic switch that when activated makes electrical contact with the junk.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 28, 2013, 11:52:46 pm
I thought your starter had a solenoid built on. Is so, do away with that fender mounted POS. This will allow you to remove several feet of wire between the battery and starter.

Put a remote power point on the fender for all your wiring connections:

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,33841.0.html

I also added a relay between the factory "start" wire and the solenoid. The factory ignition switch didn't seem to carry enough current to solidly engage the solenoid. I chased starting issues for a while before figuring this out.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 01, 2013, 07:04:26 am
I thought your starter had a solenoid built on. Is so, do away with that fender mounted POS. This will allow you to remove several feet of wire between the battery and starter.

Put a remote power point on the fender for all your wiring connections:

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,33841.0.html

I also added a relay between the factory "start" wire and the solenoid. The factory ignition switch didn't seem to carry enough current to solidly engage the solenoid. I chased starting issues for a while before figuring this out.


A very good idea.  Thanks.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: gmatt9858 on March 01, 2013, 07:28:49 am
Just like any relay or contactor, the contactor pads go bad. Causing the voltage across them to drop excessively. See it all the time in hvac where the contactor pads have burned up from arching. Or have ants in them!  :orglaugh


Where does the voltage drop to?  As in the current has to go thru a high resistance area and the "power" gets dissipated in the form of heat instead of powering my starter motor to start the Merc up?

The voltage is dropped across the contacts in the solenoid when they go bad(increased resistance)


Where does this increased resistance come about?  IOW I am pretty sure that a resistor didn't all of a sudden get put inside there?

Do the contacts wear so much away that the "gap" between them increases?  Or am I daydreaming ...      :347ho:




Robert, looking at the pictures, you can see corrosion, dirty looking contacts, etc. This all equals added resistance. The "gap" doesn't need to increase much. Remember filing the contacts on your points before you switched to electronic ignition? same principle.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 01, 2013, 08:35:03 am
Just like any relay or contactor, the contactor pads go bad. Causing the voltage across them to drop excessively. See it all the time in hvac where the contactor pads have burned up from arching. Or have ants in them!  :orglaugh


Where does the voltage drop to?  As in the current has to go thru a high resistance area and the "power" gets dissipated in the form of heat instead of powering my starter motor to start the Merc up?

The voltage is dropped across the contacts in the solenoid when they go bad(increased resistance)


Where does this increased resistance come about?  IOW I am pretty sure that a resistor didn't all of a sudden get put inside there?

Do the contacts wear so much away that the "gap" between them increases?  Or am I daydreaming ...      :347ho:




Robert, looking at the pictures, you can see corrosion, dirty looking contacts, etc. This all equals added resistance. The "gap" doesn't need to increase much. Remember filing the contacts on your points before you switched to electronic ignition? same principle.


So you are saying that during use this added corrosion which undergoes an electro-chemical change process has properties' that are less than ideal brass/copper property has as far as conductivity?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: gmatt9858 on March 01, 2013, 01:32:40 pm
Call it wear and tear, stuff wears out. If a switch sparks, there's going to be pitting. You need to clean your battery terminals and ground connections too, right? A nice clean connection has less resistance(and less voltage drop) than a dirty corroded one.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 19, 2013, 04:01:01 pm
The M/T ET streets are wearing out REAL fast.  I just can't drive like an 80 year old man with my powerful Merc.  It is no fun and not even worth the horrible MPG that it gets unless I can get wild with the throttle sometimes!

I am trying to figure out what sort of "regular" tire that I could use that is the same size as my 315/60-15's M/Ts. The M/T are 30" tall, Nitto only makes a 28" tall on a 15" rim.  I like Nittos but they are too short.

I don't want a truck tire because the ones that I've seen have tread perfect for wet conditions or mud but not for the best traction on the streets like the Merc needs.

Any ideas?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on March 19, 2013, 04:23:22 pm
There's a number of tall tires out there.  But you can't have it all.  What do you really want, sticky no life or regular and life?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on March 19, 2013, 04:32:31 pm
Does M/T still sell those treaded bias ply tire you used to see on all the Pro Street cars at cues ins and car shows?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on March 19, 2013, 04:36:00 pm
That's the kind of stuff I'm thinking. Those, pro-tracs, etc.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hoo-19275/overview/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hoo-19275/overview/)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on March 19, 2013, 05:27:31 pm
There are some 265/75s out there that the tread isn't too aggressive. A 10" wheel is a little wide for them, but a extra set of wheels would allow you to save your good tires.

M/T makes some 30" tall street radials, but they are $300 each. The ones with the flame tread pattern.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 19, 2013, 06:18:01 pm
That's the kind of stuff I'm thinking. Those, pro-tracs, etc.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hoo-19275/overview/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hoo-19275/overview/)


I like these a lot.

They seem to be the widest 30" tall tire for a 15" rim compared to the M/T ET streets that I have now.

I see from Summit's description they are a radial, are they made with a regular street tire compound?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 28, 2013, 09:21:16 pm
Well I am pleasantly surprised and very happy to be able to share with you guys that after work this afternoon I added another 1" of aluminum open carb spacer between the carb and the Super Victor intake.  That makes a total of 2" of aluminum open carb spacer on the 408W.

Wow!  The Merc LOVED the added inch of more plenum volume and also raising the carb's throttle blades further away from the tops of the runner dividers.

I can tell from my SEAT that the Merc's well built 408W (thanks Woody and Nicole) has just gotten a further kick in the acceleration department.      ;D

The Merc moves quicker and also shreds the poor M/T tires harder now during WOT gear changes (there goes my paycheck again).


Neat -- I don't remember feeling this amount of power increase when I added the first 1" open spacer, unlike how I am actually noticing on this second inch of spacer.




I am in hotrod Heaven right now!      :thanx:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 28, 2013, 11:39:33 pm
http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/ctrp_0609_carburetor_spacers/viewall.html (http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/ctrp_0609_carburetor_spacers/viewall.html)


A few points that I considered -- even before the open carb spacers the 408W liked to rev up fast.

So I figured that an open carb spacer would be beneficial and not a 4 hole spacer.  The 408W's combo of parts and the high stalling T/C, coupled with the 4.56 rear gear and the tall 29.5 tires love to run high rpms with a 7k rpm redline due to the stock block ...

I centered my approach on = making sure that my A/F mixture wouldn't have the fuel separate from the air so increasing the plenum volume would allow the A/F to slow down a bit when it has to make the turn past the dividers, having more distance between the carb's throttle blades and the tops of the dividers would help give less of a bend (more of a straight shot) into the combustion chamber, plus I've learned that using a 4 hole spacer hasn't ever worked on any of my engines (I know that all combos CAN be different) because the 4 hole spacer ends up increasing the velocity of the A/F draft which can slam into the plenum floor instead of being slowed down some while existing the carb to once again help it to not slam into the turn going past the dividers which can pull fuel out of the A/F charge which will lose power.

So why was my Merc noticeably faster?  I believe that more fuel got pulled into the combustion chambers than before I had added another open carb spacer.  At WOT in higher rpm's my outter cylinders where running leaner than now due to the nature of the intake manifold geometry whereas cylinders 2,3,6 and 7 run richer than the other outer 4.

I'm ranting a bit but it makes good sense to me.      :idea


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on March 29, 2013, 01:04:01 am
Most of us would eventually run dual quad tunnel rams if hood clearance weren't an issue.  I know I would anyway.  You just can't get the carb too close to the bottom of the hood.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on March 29, 2013, 09:25:58 am
if you have room it might like a tapered spacer on top of an open spacer. you just have to be aware you are tuning and sometimes wont pick up but learn what it likes. oddly enough sometimes feels faster isnt and sometimes doesnt really feel much better is actually faster. weird.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 31, 2013, 09:01:11 pm
Well I must admit that going from a 28" tire (actual IIRC 27" on the Nittos) to the present 30" (actual 29.5" M/T ET Street radials) was a mistake.

After the gear change into top gear WOT the Merc is at 6000rpm nowadays.

With the 28" Nittos the same gear change would be around 6500rpm or even a tiny bit more afterwards.


I haven't been to the 1/8 mile track since but I can just imagine crossing the 660' at such a lower rpm must kill my time.

 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 31, 2013, 10:12:41 pm
Or then again it could be my perception was off earlier today ... since I went up in tire height the speedo shows less MPH than the actual speed and it's been a rough weekend.  Such is life.

I will have to just take it to the track but I'm thinking that I should be crossing the finish at least 6500 rpms and possibly closer to 7k ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 01, 2013, 03:20:34 pm
Like I said it was a tough weekend.

Battling starter problems.  Found the solution and so now I can relax.  Not a good day to hurl obscenities around but such is life at times.  I can laugh at myself, too.



No one commented on my tire issue. 

I will say that with my particular combo the answer is I need to have a set of street tires AND a set of track tires.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on April 01, 2013, 05:34:44 pm
I think we been down all these roads several times  :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on April 01, 2013, 07:00:05 pm
I agree that in most cases a street/strip vehicle should have 2 sets of wheels and tires if they want to have the best of both worlds.  It only take a few minutes to swap them out--lots of people here do the swap once they get to the track and then swap back before they leave.  A good battery powered impact wrench kicks ass in this situation if you did it regularly.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 04, 2013, 08:15:18 pm
I'm sorry because I should have said this earlier ... but I had to verify my idea that I had gotten from a member a month or two back but finally I had to put it into a test.

I have tried everything after I had locked out my Pertronix distributor's timing because I have been battling starter kick back since then.

I have tried many different things including paying $300 to buy a MSD 6-plus ignition box that has a built in 20* starting timing retard.  That doesn't work with the Pertronix cap because I was sometimes getting some NASTY kick backs due to the spark was jumping to the wrong cylinder due to rotor/cap phase problems after retarded the timing during a start-up.  The special large MSD cap doesn't fit properly on the Pertronix as far as I know.

I have a large welding cable from the battery to the starter and it has it's own large ground cable, too.  I have used better bolts with lock washers and nuts, too.  The starter is orientated correctly and doesn't move.

Having separate starter and ignition switches for the Merc actually makes it worse.  I know that all combos are different.


Finally what I so far this afternoon have confirmed is that I had to turn off the MSD box's timing retard AND I had to retard my locked out timing to only 30*.  So far no kick backs.  Even after being rough on the engine getting it GOOD and HOT and restarting it a couple of times right after shutdown.  

We will see how it starts tomorrow morning when it's cold -- the cold engine cold mornings would give me some crap sometimes but hopefully lowering the timing has fixed that!



(I wish that I had not messed with locking out the timing after all of the crap that I have had to go thru, I was just afraid that a light advance Moroso spring {that would allow all of the timing to come in at 1800 rpm or so!} would snap and waste my engine at WOT with too much timing!)




It is hard for me to figure out if the Merc is accelerating slower or not after going from a total of 34* down to 30* but I can't live with this starter kick back any longer?!?!?      :bang




So I wonder just how much damage acceleration-wise having only 30* of total timing on a 408W like mine is?  It was hard to tell by the butt-o-meter -- any ideas?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on April 04, 2013, 08:19:07 pm
Damage? None. Its not overly retarded or advanced. Total performance will probabaly be down.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 04, 2013, 08:21:32 pm
Damage? None. Its not overly retarded or advanced. Total performance will probabaly be down.


I mean "damage" as in is it's performance going down.

I see from the YB that everyone's is different, of friggin' course.     >:(


http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154282 (http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154282)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 04, 2013, 08:58:54 pm
I am currently looking up this to see if it will in fact work with my Pertronix Flamethrower distributor.



http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d9001 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d9001)



If so then I am going to unlock my timing, so to speak.

I will use their lightest advance springs to be able to run more total timing than just 30*.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 04, 2013, 09:05:02 pm
I am currently looking up this to see if it will in fact work with my Pertronix Flamethrower distributor.



http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d9001 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d9001)



If so then I am going to unlock my timing, so to speak.

I will use their lightest advance springs to be able to run more total timing than just 30*.


The "stop bushings" look different than what my distributor was made of -- it used to have L-shaped max advance limiters.


http://www.pertronix.com/support/manuals/pdf/billet.pdf (http://www.pertronix.com/support/manuals/pdf/billet.pdf)



Pertronix closed at 4:30pm today, I will have to call them tomorrow to see if they can sell me some new mechanical advance parts OR if the parts that I linked to will fit on my distributor.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on April 04, 2013, 11:05:01 pm
mine made most power and runs quikest at 29*  :dunno


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on April 04, 2013, 11:10:54 pm
I would think your engine wants 30-32


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on April 04, 2013, 11:22:32 pm
mine or mercs.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 04, 2013, 11:49:52 pm
mine made most power and runs quikest at 29*  :dunno


What distributor are you running (and what size cap)?

I remember that you have more static CR, am running race fuel and have better more efficient heads than me, too.     ;D


 :thanx:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on April 05, 2013, 12:02:38 am
msd big cap, on the last engine i had small cap msd. 12.5 comp, pump fuel made most
power at 28*.
in saying all that it only dropped a few horse power per degree of timing.  :drink


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 05, 2013, 12:06:17 am
 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on April 05, 2013, 07:55:56 am
mine or mercs.

mercs. but yours shouldnt be too far off, 29 sounds about right


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on April 05, 2013, 08:02:16 am
Damage? None. Its not overly retarded or advanced. Total performance will probabaly be down.


I mean "damage" as in is it's performance going down.

I see from the YB that everyone's is different, of friggin' course.     >:(


http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154282 (http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154282)

there are different factors to this but for 408w 27-32 is about right

now if you had a 302w or a 350 sbc 38-40 would be realistic but you dont have either of those

some 408's just break pistons when you try to turn the timing up high on pump gas. not to mention it can be on the edge and while you dont hear it detonation could be doing other damage like making the caps walk


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 05, 2013, 09:25:54 am
The good news is that this morning it started up very well after I gave it a shot of some gas pedal action like you would do on a cold engine/cold morning air.  No problems whatsoever.  I was relieved -- that being an understatement!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 05, 2013, 09:32:07 am
Damage? None. Its not overly retarded or advanced. Total performance will probabaly be down.


I mean "damage" as in is it's performance going down.

I see from the YB that everyone's is different, of friggin' course.     >:(


http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154282 (http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154282)

there are different factors to this but for 408w 27-32 is about right

now if you had a 302w or a 350 sbc 38-40 would be realistic but you dont have either of those

some 408's just break pistons when you try to turn the timing up high on pump gas. not to mention it can be on the edge and while you dont hear it detonation could be doing other damage like making the caps walk


Well since the Merc has been starting on a hot engine and a cold engine 'bout 7 times now without any kick backs I will be keeping the timing at 30*.

On F150's thread about him asking about locking out his timing another member mentioned that Mallory makes a Hyfire that you can program start retard from 0.1 to 10.0* in .1 increments.  Maybe one day but for now my bank account is tapped out Merc parts-wise.

I got on it real tough this morning and I honestly can't tell if it's slower?  I'm not really sure but like I said for now it is what it will have to be.  Just NO MORE starter kick backs!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 05, 2013, 09:35:01 am
Funny thing to note when you talk about total timing -- when I have the timing locked out (or not locked out!) and set at 30*, if I rev it up higher like 4k and up the timing retards to 28* ... that has always been I've noticed on any distributor that I've ever owned.

So even when I had it set at 34*, at WOT up in the higher rpm's up to my 7krpm shifts the timing was actually 'bout 32*.




So now at WOT pulling hard the Merc is really running at 28* in the upper rpms ...     


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 05, 2013, 09:46:20 am
Merc,  I wonder if its possible to use the other function of the MSD 6--the one that would retard for boost or whatever?  Those rotary switches will give up to 10 degrees retard and are manually switch controlled. You could run the wires to another toggle switch to activate it.

It maybe stupid, but it might work . . . .  


Right on my friend!!!


"RETARD CONTROL
There is a single stage of retard that can be adjusted from 0 to 9.9 degrees in 1/10° increments. The retard
is activated when the Pink wire receives 12 volts which is explained on page 6
"



 :thanx:


I will wire it to my push button starter switch.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 05, 2013, 09:53:55 am
"RETARD STAGE
The MSD features a single stage retard
step that is activated when 12 volts are
applied to the Pink wire. The retard will
remain until the 12 volts are removed.
This retard step can be connected to
a nitrous solenoid activation wire or
micro-switch on the shifter. The retard
is adjustable from 0° to 9.9° in 1/10°
increments. The example in Figure
6 shows connecting the retard to a
nitrous stage.
Note: This retard will only operate
above 2,000 rpm.
"


Crap, will only work above 2krpm.

30* of set timing it is ...      :dunno


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on April 05, 2013, 10:11:47 am
pump it!
.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on April 05, 2013, 02:27:37 pm
Timing retards can still be used with small cap distributors. With large amounts of retard, correct rotor phasing is mandatory. I've seen nitrous cars run huge amounts of retard with small caps.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=distributor%20rotor%20phasing&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.msdignition.com%2FuploadedFiles%2FMSDIgnitioncom%2FSupport%2Ffrm28392_tech_bulletin_rotor_phasing.pdf&ei=SRhfUe6FHYSa9QS97oHAAg&usg=AFQjCNEbWAr6NUS1ktrgv4Z_86G1doQESg&sig2=J7ftx4Norub4lqjFOsUl5Q&bvm=bv.44770516,d.eWU


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 05, 2013, 04:24:44 pm
Timing retards can still be used with small cap distributors. With large amounts of retard, correct rotor phasing is mandatory. I've seen nitrous cars run huge amounts of retard with small caps.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=distributor%20rotor%20phasing&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.msdignition.com%2FuploadedFiles%2FMSDIgnitioncom%2FSupport%2Ffrm28392_tech_bulletin_rotor_phasing.pdf&ei=SRhfUe6FHYSa9QS97oHAAg&usg=AFQjCNEbWAr6NUS1ktrgv4Z_86G1doQESg&sig2=J7ftx4Norub4lqjFOsUl5Q&bvm=bv.44770516,d.eWU


I have a Pertronix distributor.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 05, 2013, 04:26:13 pm



 :dunno


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on April 05, 2013, 04:58:16 pm
I have a Pertronix distributor.

Doesn't matter. You check the same way.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 05, 2013, 05:58:36 pm
I have a Pertronix distributor.

Doesn't matter. You check the same way.


Yet I can't adjust the rotor assembly on the Pertronix.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 05, 2013, 08:43:11 pm
Maybe I'm wishing for it to be true too much, but I swear the Merc was seeming to pull harder in a high gear WOT gas pedal rolling 40mph stomp!


Maybe I ended up with the best of both worlds by having to lower my ignition timing from 34* down to 30* -- able to keep my distributor locked-out with no more starter kick back, a little bit faster acceleration AND maybe easier on the engine since I love to floor it and wind it out to 6800/7000rpm for less movement of the dreaded "cap walk" ... life while learning is GOOD!


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on April 05, 2013, 08:57:12 pm
the dreaded "cap walk"
?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 05, 2013, 09:11:06 pm


Stroker engine making some decent power inside of a stock block.  Crankshaft end-cap "problems" ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on April 05, 2013, 09:12:54 pm
Ah... though you were talking distributor cap.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 05, 2013, 09:22:04 pm
Ah... though you were talking distributor cap.


No wonder the " :dunno" -- you were thinking what the heck is Robert talking about now ...


 :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 05, 2013, 09:34:28 pm
In other words if someone else doesn't get what I was saying earlier about "cap walk" while maybe having the total timing up a little too high on 91 octane CA pump gas --



some 408's just break pistons when you try to turn the timing up high on pump gas.


 not to mention it can be on the edge and while you dont hear it detonation could be doing other damage like making the caps walk


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on April 06, 2013, 12:11:41 am
big powerful engine on a cold start with no choke wants lots and lots of fuel. no way around it. pump it, give her some juice


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 06, 2013, 12:16:54 am
big powerful engine on a cold start with no choke wants lots and lots of fuel. no way around it. pump it, give her some juice


True.

This afternoon the 408W wouldn't start until I gave the pedal a 1/2 pump.  Then it started quickly with no kick back at all.

So far I am very relieved.

After having random starter kick backs gives you a mental fuck in your head.  I hated waiting for it to happen or to not happen.  You know that kick backs are not good for your junk.

It now likes a good 1/2 pedal gas pump in the morning before it starts, too.

Before this I was afraid to give it hardly any gas because it would have a nasty kick back at times and the more fuel that it got the harder the kick back.


 :disgust:





So far at 30* of total timing locked out it has not kicked back not one time.      :clap


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on April 06, 2013, 12:33:27 am
Yet I can't adjust the rotor assembly on the Pertronix.

True, your distributor doesn't have a simple adjustment.

While you might not want to go through the steps to make it happen, I have never came across a distributor that couldn't be properly phased.

Some have a simple adjustable rotor. On others, you might have to manipulate the stops of the mechanical advance. And on others, you might have to modify the position of the breaker plate/pickup or the stator.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 16, 2013, 12:34:09 am
Well I thought that I had it beat, but this morning it kicked back again AND THAT WAS THE LAST STRAW!


IIRC I saved all of the mechanical advance assembly's parts -- so if the weather isn't rainy, windy and shitty tomorrow after work I will be going back to having a working mechanical advance on my distributor.  I will be using the lightest copper advance springs which bring in all of the timing at 'bout 1800rpm -- coupled with a high stalling T/C I'm sure that the 408W could not give any less FUCKS if the timing isn't locked-out performance-wise.

It will just be easier on my starter and my mind ...


The good thing that I happened to learn by chance with this entire fiasco is that the Merc IMHO actually likes 30* of ignition timing better than 32* or 34*.


 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on April 16, 2013, 09:04:05 am
I think you are chasing your tail


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Mr.Blue on April 16, 2013, 09:31:03 am
I chase my girlfriends tail........she gets frustrated also :dunno


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 16, 2013, 10:43:46 am
I think you are chasing your tail


Hardly!

I had it put back together this morning and it was starting fine (I started it many consecutive times even giving it a good jolt of fuel which with it locked out would have kicked back).

Unfortunately though, the worn out light copper springs are done because after playing around with it the timing shot up to 40* and kept itself there.  (In neutral and not on the road thank God)

So I ordered a new set of springs and it should be good to go.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on April 16, 2013, 11:42:01 am
More appropriately - gone full circle.


 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 16, 2013, 12:08:32 pm
More appropriately - gone full circle.


 


Exactly.



Plus I didn't hurt anything and learned a few new things.  A good exercise, indeed.      :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on April 16, 2013, 07:03:30 pm
didn't you put a Digi6 in.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 16, 2013, 07:41:55 pm
didn't you put a Digi6 in.


Yes, but 20* starting timing retard was too much.

The Pertronix rotor isn't easily modified like a MSD one to better the phase relationship between the rotor and the distributor's cap while it's firing.


 :P


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 17, 2013, 09:43:35 pm
Well I now need a new starter.  (My wiring is good and so is the battery.  I even put the distributor back to being a mechanical advanced type.)  It started good for 4 times, the fifth time it turned over quickly as usual but partially disengaged during the cranking procedure.  Even with the spark off it was still cranking fucked-up like, at times not even engaging the flexplate.  It is still properly fastened with it's two bolts, lockwashers and nuts to the engine.



And thinking back as to all of the starter problems and what last the last thing that I had changed, WAS replacing my old starter that never gave me any problems but the bolt wasn't secured with a nut BUT after getting a nut to properly fasten it I forgot why but I ended up getting a different type of starter.  Ever since then according to my "memory", I have been having nothing but fucking starter related problems.




So I am asking for help in picking the correct starter that would fit my Merc to a "T".


It needs this criteria:  It needs to be one of those mini-little-torque monster "geared" starters that can spin the Merc's 408 10:1 SCR engine over quickly enough.  It needs to be "mini" as in it needs to be able to clear my headers and the 7 quart front sump oil pan.  It also needs to be self-contained -- as in I don't want to have to use an external solenoid for it.  I have a 12Vdc system.

It needs to be under $500 out the door and to my Merc.




As always I appreciate all of my friends' here advice and help ...      :thanx:



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 17, 2013, 10:10:16 pm
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-351300/overview/make/ford (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-351300/overview/make/ford)


 :dunno


6:1 gear reduction ...      :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 17, 2013, 10:14:45 pm
Although that one isn't "clockable".  Might not be a good purchase.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 17, 2013, 10:15:57 pm
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-5090/overview/make/ford (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-5090/overview/make/ford)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on April 17, 2013, 10:17:15 pm
cheap n works
http://www.dbelectrical.com/c-1719-ford.aspx


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 17, 2013, 10:24:25 pm
cheap n works
http://www.dbelectrical.com/c-1719-ford.aspx


It doesn't need an external solenoid?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 17, 2013, 10:32:22 pm
cheap n works
http://www.dbelectrical.com/c-1719-ford.aspx


It doesn't need an external solenoid?


I'm just worried because it is so inexpensive, I'm thinking that it might be too good to be true?  No offense to you of course ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on April 17, 2013, 10:40:19 pm
I run the power master ultra torque and its a beast and the gear is easily replaced if it ever wears.

Bam


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 17, 2013, 10:44:51 pm
I run the power master ultra torque and its a beast and the gear is easily replaced if it ever wears.

Bam


This one, right?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-9403/overview/make/ford (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-9403/overview/make/ford)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on April 17, 2013, 10:47:20 pm
cheap n works
http://www.dbelectrical.com/c-1719-ford.aspx


It doesn't need an external solenoid?


I'm just worried because it is so inexpensive, I'm thinking that it might be too good to be true?  No offense to you of course ...

I run a parts store , stock replacement PMGR starter. Identical to those. Seen them crank 13:1 engines without a issue.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 17, 2013, 10:48:38 pm
cheap n works
http://www.dbelectrical.com/c-1719-ford.aspx


It doesn't need an external solenoid?


I'm just worried because it is so inexpensive, I'm thinking that it might be too good to be true?  No offense to you of course ...

I run a parts store , stock replacement PMGR starter. Identical to those. Seen them crank 13:1 engines without a issue.


You think that it will fit my engine's pan and headers and not need an external solenoid?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on April 17, 2013, 10:56:59 pm
You think that it will fit my engine's pan and headers and not need an external solenoid?

 :dunno

The solenoid is ~12 o'clock. It's smaller and more reliable than many of the aftermarket models that I've seen.

One thing that I have noticed is that the factory "start" wire from the ignition switch is often inadequate for a PMGR solenoid. IMO, I think that's the root cause of many Ford vehicles solenoid related problems. Fox bodies are notorious for that shit. A regular SPST relay takes care of all that.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 17, 2013, 11:00:48 pm
You think that it will fit my engine's pan and headers and not need an external solenoid?

 :dunno

The solenoid is ~12 o'clock. It's smaller and more reliable than many of the aftermarket models that I've seen.


That is where the solenoid is on the current starter.  Thanks.  I will order one.  I need to find who can ship me one the fastest ...      :wonder:


One thing that I have noticed is that the factory "start" wire from the ignition switch is often inadequate for a PMGR solenoid. IMO, I think that's the root cause of many Ford vehicles solenoid related problems. Fox bodies are notorious for that shit. A regular SPST relay takes care of all that.


I have gotten rid of the external solenoid that the Merc used to have.

I have a good gauge-sized wire from my push button starter switch to the starter right now.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 17, 2013, 11:03:04 pm
Looks like this is the right one for my application -- http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-9936-new-ford-mini-pmgr-racing-starter-302-351-higher-torque-3205-sfd0001.aspx (http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-9936-new-ford-mini-pmgr-racing-starter-302-351-higher-torque-3205-sfd0001.aspx)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on April 17, 2013, 11:07:03 pm
I have a good gauge-sized wire from my push button starter switch to the starter right now.

I have a 40 amp relay on my firewall, with ~2' of wire to the solenoid. That ended my starting problems, and also gave me a convenient place to wire in my NSS.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on April 17, 2013, 11:57:57 pm
Robert If you want a DB one I have 2 here.... Let me know


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 18, 2013, 12:02:42 am
Robert If you want a DB one I have 2 here.... Let me know


If it's this one (link below - I think that it is the correct one for the Merc) then yes I would like one.

http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-9936-new-ford-mini-pmgr-racing-starter-302-351-higher-torque-3205-sfd0001.aspx (http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-9936-new-ford-mini-pmgr-racing-starter-302-351-higher-torque-3205-sfd0001.aspx)


Is that the starter that you have?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: JuicyJ on April 18, 2013, 12:03:49 am
DB starter is awesome, just make sure the teeth count for the flywheel is correct. Had a buddy run through a few flywheels dude to the starter apparently being for a 164 tooth flywheel


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 18, 2013, 12:05:17 am
DB starter is awesome, just make sure the teeth count for the flywheel is correct. Had a buddy run through a few flywheels dude to the starter apparently being for a 164 tooth flywheel


I have a C4.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on April 18, 2013, 12:07:07 am
Thats the ones I have, one is the gold color, the other is black but both the same.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 18, 2013, 12:09:45 am
Thats the ones I have, one is the gold color, the other is black but both the same.


PM sent.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 20, 2013, 07:36:19 pm
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,35085.0.html



 :rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 22, 2013, 09:08:58 pm
Well I am happy to verify after driving the Merc around quite a bit and re-starting it many different times I have solved my ongoing starting issues.  At last!


I also bought and installed the Pertronix mechanical advance kit which included their 3 different rate springs and 3 different advance limiters.

After messing around with my Pertronix's mechanical advance system I must admit that I was wrong about calling their system "weak and fragile" earlier.


I admit that I was wrong and that their mechanical advance parts are good.



I currently am using their copper advance rate springs which on my combo have all of the ignition timing coming in at 1200rpm.  So I am getting a nice and easy start every time and once the engine starts it's like running a locked-out distributor!

I am also using their 20* advance limiters.  I must admit that they are designed right on the fucking money!

You see - after I re-installed the mechanical advance parts after taking out the locked-out wire that I had used earlier - I loosened up the distributor's hold-down bolt - started up the Merc - waited a minute or two to slightly warm up the carb/engine and then revved and held the engine at 3000rpm adjusting the distributor to 32* of total timing.  I then tightened up the distributor's hold-down bolt - revved up the Merc a couple of times HARD in neutral and then I shut it off.

I shit you guys not -- I don't have a good enough smart phone or a camera to be able to capture just how good and fast the 408W that Woody built me revs up relentlessly -- you would literally have to see and hear it in person to know what I'm saying!  (When I've tried a phone or my camera it doesn't sound well on playback - the loud sound messes up the pick-up mic's capabilities or something ...)


I re-started it a couple of times and noticed that the initial timing was right on the dot of 12*.  That 20* limiter that Pertronix sold me was dead nuts!


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 13, 2013, 11:02:21 pm
Added a 1-1/8” front end sway bar.  Took me 2-1/2 hours in this fucking heat plus I had to drill and elongate both of the bushing clamps' slots and also had to re-use some of the OEM hardware that thank God I had saved when I had taken off the skinny OEM sway bar.

It makes the Merc handle MUCH better on the street.  It corners better and seems to drive more true and straight.  With no sway bar at high speeds the hood close to the front windshield would shimmy back and forth with front-end wiggling.

I will have to report if the Merc now shakes at high speeds with the 1-1/8” sway bar installed.  I'm going to GUESS that the Merc will not shake at all even at high speeds, because I got it up to 60mph real quick and it was straight as an arrow with no shaking ...



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on May 14, 2013, 07:27:29 am
it will probably have a negative impact on launching the car

try balancing the front tires


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 14, 2013, 09:36:18 am
it will probably have a negative impact on launching the car




No regrets for me there with adding the sway bar back, plus it's a much thicker one than OEM.  It looks like a 40# bar but thankfully it only weighed 20#!

The Merc launches very well for the street and since it's my DD it is going to stay.  It doesn't lift the front driver's tire's suspension up so high as it did with no sway bar but instead lifts both front tires' suspension more evenly.

I have now had experience with the Merc with OEM sway bar, no sway bar, and then this 1/2" thicker than OEM.  I prefer this set-up with the thick sway bar.

It got it up to 95mph this morning.  The hood is still shaking up close to the windshield - but the front-end tires/steering wheel are not shaking.

Upon more close inspection of the hood, the hood pins close to the windshield got me seeing that I will need to weld the hood pin brackets' support to the body of the car better.  IOW there is some wiggle room there that I found.  No good.  The wind at high speeds is probably doing the hood movement ...

That will be my next project.

I also might have to install another set of hood pins so there will be three on each side instead of the two on each side that I currently have.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on May 14, 2013, 11:49:56 am
Six hood pins??? On a steel hood???  IOW - something don't sound right.

Or is it glass?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 14, 2013, 12:07:18 pm
Six hood pins??? On a steel hood???  IOW - something don't sound right.

Or is it glass?


No, it's the OEM steel hood.  Remember that my hood is not level with the car's body - it is raised two inches in the back off of the car's body and then slants downward towards the front of the Merc ...

I noticed that the two pins assembly have a little bit of wiggle room in how they are holding "down" the hood which are closest to the windshield.

To help correct this I am going to do some more welding on the brackets that hold the pin assemblies to the inner part of the engine bay body.

If that won't solve it then I am going to add another pin on each side in the middle between the two pins which should completely hold that hood so it can't move at all even at high speeds.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on May 14, 2013, 12:12:24 pm
Six hood pins??? On a steel hood???  IOW - something don't sound right.

Or is it glass?


No, it's the OEM steel hood.  Remember that my hood is not level with the car's body - it is raised two inches in the back off of the car's body and then slants downward towards the front of the Merc ...

I noticed that the two pins assembly have a little bit of wiggle room in how they are holding "down" the hood which are closest to the windshield.

To help correct this I am going to do some more welding on the brackets that hold the pin assemblies to the inner part of the engine bay body.

If that won't solve it then I am going to add another pin on each side in the middle between the two pins which should completely hold that hood so it can't move at all even at high speeds.

Are you sure this isn't something the ol' chop saw can't fix?   :orglaugh  Just giving you a hard time.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 14, 2013, 12:29:15 pm
Six hood pins??? On a steel hood???  IOW - something don't sound right.

Or is it glass?


No, it's the OEM steel hood.  Remember that my hood is not level with the car's body - it is raised two inches in the back off of the car's body and then slants downward towards the front of the Merc ...

I noticed that the two pins assembly have a little bit of wiggle room in how they are holding "down" the hood which are closest to the windshield.

To help correct this I am going to do some more welding on the brackets that hold the pin assemblies to the inner part of the engine bay body.

If that won't solve it then I am going to add another pin on each side in the middle between the two pins which should completely hold that hood so it can't move at all even at high speeds.

Are you sure this isn't something the ol' chop saw can't fix?   :orglaugh  Just giving you a hard time.


That is what starting all of this mess ...                               :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 302ute on May 14, 2013, 06:59:23 pm
enough stuffing around, now get back to the track!!!! :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on May 14, 2013, 08:49:26 pm
He can't do that now its gotten hot already he was supposed to wait until it cooled off. I guess that will be next winter.

Bam


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on May 14, 2013, 11:37:01 pm
how old are the front tires?

have you shaken the front end down recently?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 15, 2013, 11:18:44 am
enough stuffing around, now get back to the track!!!! :burnout



He can't do that now its gotten hot already he was supposed to wait until it cooled off. I guess that will be next winter.

Bam




I'm not going alone next time.  When Nate gets his Mustang ready I will race him there!  (I'm also waiting for Dana)


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 15, 2013, 11:19:49 am
how old are the front tires?

have you shaken the front end down recently?


The front tires are two weeks old. 


Like I said EARLIER (LOL!) when the hood is shaking the steering wheel isn't ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on May 15, 2013, 12:03:14 pm
steering wheel doesn't have to shake to have a tire imbalance


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on May 15, 2013, 12:47:32 pm
I'm not going alone next time.  When Nate gets his Mustang ready I will race him there!  (I'm also waiting for Dana)


 :burnout

I like going when it's 110 out.  Makes it nice when you sit in the lanes with a fire jacket and helmet on. LOL!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 15, 2013, 01:34:10 pm
steering wheel doesn't have to shake to have a tire imbalance


With manual steering?


With the intensity that the hood was shaking at 90+mph the other day I would have thought that I would have felt the steering wheel move too ... you would have had to have been there IMHO!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on May 15, 2013, 06:34:09 pm
depends which plane the imbalance is.  If it's purely vertical, there would be no left/right force exerted on the tie rods hence no steering wheel movement.  There are new balancers that do 'road force balancing'.  They actually account for tires that aren't perfectly round.  That's another place you might get shake without steering wheel movement.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on May 15, 2013, 08:13:07 pm
I was using road force balancers about 13years ago

your new tires might be the issue. what kind of tires and where did you buy them?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on May 15, 2013, 08:17:42 pm
I was using road force balancers about 13years ago

your new tires might be the issue. what kind of tires and where did you buy them?

LOL... when i said new, it was more for the 'carburetor' crowd   :rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 15, 2013, 08:46:22 pm
I was using road force balancers about 13years ago

your new tires might be the issue. what kind of tires and where did you buy them?


Same shaking issue before the new tires and after them.

The hood doesn't shake up and down, but just back and forth.

I saw some play that has worked itself "bigger" between the actual hood pin, the hole that it "fastens" to and also the hood "spring" brackets that I've welded up in the distant past.

I will fix this problem soon - I will keep this updating ...      :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on May 15, 2013, 09:27:04 pm
the front of the car shakes - check


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 15, 2013, 10:54:01 pm
the front of the car shakes - check


Why can't it be wind turbulence moving the hood?


IIRC the front of the car isn't shaking, just the hood is what I've been trying to say all along!      ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on May 16, 2013, 12:20:24 am
I knew what you were saying Robert.... Your car is essentually a block in the wind, with you having spacers in the rear of your hood, it amplifies any and all movement. The vibrations are most likely causing the holes to open on on the pin mounts making it shake more.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on May 16, 2013, 12:33:36 am
Does the hood need to be up?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 16, 2013, 10:22:49 am
I knew what you were saying Robert.... Your car is essentually a block in the wind, with you having spacers in the rear of your hood, it amplifies any and all movement. The vibrations are most likely causing the holes to open on on the pin mounts making it shake more.


Exactly.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 16, 2013, 10:24:29 am
Does the hood need to be up?


I believe it helps to allow the engine to get a cooler intake charge because with the raised hood it helps rid the engine compartment of hot air.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on May 16, 2013, 11:06:38 am
Possibly, but for a different reason.  At speed, there is usually positive pressure a the base of the windshield.  The cool air would be blowing in aka GM's cowl induction hoods, not venting out.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on May 16, 2013, 11:17:20 am
That all depends on what's going on at the front and over the top of the grill and hood.

Tape a pieces of 4" yarn to the back edge of your hood, and base of windshield and drive.  You'll know what direction the air is flowing.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 16, 2013, 12:06:20 pm

Tape a pieces of 4" yarn to the back edge of your hood, and base of windshield and drive.  You'll know what direction the air is flowing.


I'm having a hard time visualizing that.  Just one piece of yard or multiple pieces?  Because if I only use one piece of thread parallel to the body of my ride taped in two places it won't show me anything, right?

Sorry for the brain fart ...      :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on May 16, 2013, 12:19:58 pm
Think of streamers


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 16, 2013, 12:23:48 pm
Think of streamers


Thanks, I got it now.

Each "string" can only be fastened on ONE end.

Separate strings on the base of my windshield and strings on the back of the hood!     :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on June 02, 2013, 01:19:05 pm
robert are u going to the track this year its going to get hot soon


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 02, 2013, 11:06:52 pm
robert are u going to the track this year its going to get hot soon


Not alone.  Honestly, I'm not in too much of a hurry.  It's fun - but I honestly have a LOT of fun on the street.  Everyone is different ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on June 04, 2013, 01:23:52 am
I'm likely going to Irwindale on the 13th Robert.  Tell Tim to get his butt out there too.  :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on June 04, 2013, 01:53:51 am
I'm likely going to Irwindale on the 13th Robert.  Tell Tim to get his butt out there too.  :)
I should be there the 13th also. Not sure yet if Randy will be there or not... Wonder who else we can get to go.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on June 04, 2013, 08:28:32 am
I'm likely going to Irwindale on the 13th Robert.  Tell Tim to get his butt out there too.  :)
I should be there the 13th also. Not sure yet if Randy will be there or not... Wonder who else we can get to go.

he was supposed to do my pistons originally but last I heard his boss was doing them


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 04, 2013, 09:08:51 am
I'm likely going to Irwindale on the 13th Robert.  Tell Tim to get his butt out there too.  :)


Something special happening there on the 13th?


Who is Randy?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on June 04, 2013, 09:40:44 am
hes another sbf buff from another site. I think he is more of a cleveland guy but he dont seem to like to talk about it lol


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on June 04, 2013, 10:05:36 am
Can someone please get some video so those of us who can't be there can still enjoy it?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 04, 2013, 10:09:08 am
hes another sbf buff from another site. I think he is more of a cleveland guy but he dont seem to like to talk about it lol


Two Nuts Racing forum?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 04, 2013, 10:10:05 am
Can someone please get some video so those of us who can't be there can still enjoy it?


We all need a SoCal SBFTech get-together ...       ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on June 04, 2013, 10:16:42 am
Can someone please get some video so those of us who can't be there can still enjoy it?

We all need a SoCal SBFTech get-together ...       ;)

Road trip!  Just kidding, not happening any time soon.  I still have a garage I can barely walk around in, half a house to finishing laying floors in to get it ready for new renters and acreage that's turning into a thicket. 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 04, 2013, 11:59:28 am
I'm likely going to Irwindale on the 13th Robert.  Tell Tim to get his butt out there too.  :)


It looks like that I can't go to race then.  My M/T ET's are worn pretty badly - they won't stand up to burn-outs and then last me for anything after that I know.  I will have to take a rain-check.  Sorry.

My goal is to buy some of those large street tires that a couple of you had posted here about earlier (I can't remember the make but they are like $329 each!) and have some brand new M/T ET Street radials ONLY for Irwindale.

That is my goal - but for now I am having to buy other things for "normal" life's necessities right now.  I will of course keep everyone posted about the new tires when I can get them, here.

 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on June 04, 2013, 03:07:31 pm
yeah he used to frequent over there. he works for a piston company

just go run it you will have alot of fun!

keep the burnouts real light, staying home isnt going to put tread on the tires  :dunno and theres nothing to be embarassed about most have an idea of whats what. if you were on the nittos before I think you could get a 7.30 on the mt's. maybe faster


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on June 04, 2013, 03:31:22 pm
yeah he used to frequent over there. he works for a piston company

just go run it you will have alot of fun!

keep the burnouts real light, staying home isnt going to put tread on the tires  :dunno and theres nothing to be embarassed about most have an idea of whats what. if you were on the nittos before I think you could get a 7.30 on the mt's. maybe faster

+1 just go have fun


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on June 04, 2013, 03:35:35 pm
No worries Robert.  No reason I won't be able to make it I know of Tim.  I NEED to hit the track again!

There are not enough So Cal members here to do any kind of official SBFTech meet.  :(


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: matt0matic on June 04, 2013, 10:29:21 pm
Bako! Was just there watching the Super Chevy race.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on June 04, 2013, 10:34:32 pm
to bad robert i was thinking on the mt it would pickup a lot


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on June 05, 2013, 01:17:56 am
Bako! Was just there watching the Super Chevy race.
There were alot of good people up there, I didnt get a chance to go but knew many racing under WCHRA and WCOPMA
Some serious fast cars getting good passes in during the heat with track temps over 140.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on June 05, 2013, 01:19:52 am
yeah he used to frequent over there. he works for a piston company


He works for RaceTec Pistons, used to be at JE before that.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 05, 2013, 09:25:46 am
to bad robert i was thinking on the mt it would pickup a lot


Don't worry, all is NOT lost.

I just had to learn from experience that M/T's don't last for a hoot on the street with my normal street driving habits.

So I am saving up for some tall and wide street tires that won't wear out quickly.  And for another set of 15" x 10" rims for a new set of M/T's and then I will go to the track with them.


 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on June 05, 2013, 02:20:09 pm
I just had to learn from experience that M/T's don't last for a hoot on the street with my normal street driving habits.

That's you're own fault. I warned you like three times what would happen.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 05, 2013, 02:48:22 pm
I just had to learn from experience that M/T's don't last for a hoot on the street with my normal street driving habits.

That's you're own fault. I warned you like three times what would happen.


Yep, I remember your warnings!      :duh


But they look so BADASS on the Merc - driving them daily with them looking ALMOST like slicks!      :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on June 05, 2013, 04:17:14 pm
Buy a set of SLICKS and keep them on a separate set of wheels for trips to the track.  Buy a set of big standard radials to run on the street everyday. 

Used sparingly, the slicks will last several years...  and will hook MUCH better than any other kind of tire you can install on the car.

Standard radials are far less expensive, and will allow you to play around on the street, spinning around on a regular basis, and last far, far, far longer than any drag radial. 

Money wise, you're WAY further ahead doing the above.  Quicker at the track, too!

Some like to sing the praises of drag radials, but for test and tune...  when the track isn't prepped the greatest...  slicks work WAY better! 

Good Luck!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on June 05, 2013, 09:26:27 pm

Yep, I remember your warnings!

Well, why didn't you listen to him? You come here for help, you get the help, you don't take it then you complain about the outcome. Makes no sense.

Anyhow, I have the solution to your problem. I am prepared to help you generate funds for the set of tires you want. I will give you just enough money for the tires and wheels you are after in exchange for the engine, trans, carb and headers that are currently in the merc.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: garsten on June 05, 2013, 10:13:20 pm

Yep, I remember your warnings!

 I will give you just enough money for the tires and wheels you are after in exchange for the engine, trans, carb and headers that are currently in the merc.


you wouldn't know what to did with Roberts stuff.

cheers, claude


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on June 05, 2013, 10:32:40 pm
Well, why didn't you listen to him? You come here for help, you get the help, you don't take it then you complain about the outcome. Makes no sense.

Trust me, we have been threw this with Robert a few times.  :orglaugh  He is a good guy and does listen most of the time.  He has a strong motor because he did listen.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 05, 2013, 11:23:55 pm

Yep, I remember your warnings!

Well, why didn't you listen to him? You come here for help, you get the help, you don't take it then you complain about the outcome. Makes no sense.


Easy there, Chief!      :naughty:



Nowhere did I complain about the outcome - at all!


I was simply explaining why I am not ready for the track again next Thursday.




Anyhow, I have the solution to your problem. I am prepared to help you generate funds for the set of tires you want. I will give you just enough money for the tires and wheels you are after in exchange for the engine, trans, carb and headers that are currently in the merc.


What are you smoking?      :P


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 05, 2013, 11:26:35 pm

Yep, I remember your warnings!

 I will give you just enough money for the tires and wheels you are after in exchange for the engine, trans, carb and headers that are currently in the merc.


you wouldn't know what to do with Roberts stuff.

cheers, claude



 :spit:





Trust me, we have been threw this with Robert a few times.  :orglaugh  He is a good guy and does listen most of the time.  He has a strong motor because he did listen.


And everyone knows just how MUCH I love the 408W that Woody built for me ...      ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on June 05, 2013, 11:55:22 pm
You could always go to watch n hang out.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on June 06, 2013, 03:34:18 am
So Robert, you wanna go hang out?
Nate,Randy,Scott,Me, maybe JustJim?
Who else is local?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 06, 2013, 09:21:46 am
So Robert, you wanna go hang out?
Nate,Randy,Scott,Me, maybe JustJim?
Who else is local?


I've been working late and am worn out.  I'm working overtime now which is good for saving up money.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on June 06, 2013, 11:06:32 am
make a sacrifice and go hang out with the boys  :???


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on June 06, 2013, 11:26:17 am

I've been working late and am worn out.  I'm working overtime now which is good for saving up money.


The aluminum beach is a great place to relax and unwind... plus spectating is cheap(er).


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on June 06, 2013, 11:34:59 am
Peer pressure!   :orglaugh


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on June 06, 2013, 03:03:30 pm
Beer pressure!   :orglaugh

fixed it for ya!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on June 06, 2013, 03:49:13 pm
LoL


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Just Jim on June 07, 2013, 05:02:59 pm
So Robert, you wanna go hang out?
Nate,Randy,Scott,Me, maybe JustJim?
Who else is local?


I've been working late and am worn out.  I'm working overtime now which is good for saving up money.

Jeeze, Robert,if you can't find an extra $10 to watch or $20 to race you're in big trouble.
The Hoosier Dot Drag Radials on my Falcon don't have any tread and I still drive the car to and from Irwindale.Going to drive it out to the Summit race on Sunday. Here's the car from April's Summit.

http://bowtie0069.fotki.com/2013-irwindale-pix/41413-summit-series/img-6176.html

I should be out next Thursday with one of my toys. Hope to see ya then.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 07, 2013, 06:41:34 pm
So Robert, you wanna go hang out?
Nate,Randy,Scott,Me, maybe JustJim?
Who else is local?


I've been working late and am worn out.  I'm working overtime now which is good for saving up money.

Jeeze, Robert,if you can't find an extra $10 to watch or $20 to race you're in big trouble.
The Hoosier Dot Drag Radials on my Falcon don't have any tread and I still drive the car to and from Irwindale.Going to drive it out to the Summit race on Sunday. Here's the car from April's Summit.

http://bowtie0069.fotki.com/2013-irwindale-pix/41413-summit-series/img-6176.html

I should be out next Thursday with one of my toys. Hope to see ya then.


The $10 or $20 entry fees are not the problems, guys.

My only set of rear tires are bald.



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on June 07, 2013, 10:25:13 pm
Borrow your woman's car?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 07, 2013, 10:29:22 pm
Borrow your woman's car?


I am too busy right now.

My side job is really picking up - the hotter months I am so far very busy.      :rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 07, 2013, 10:46:40 pm
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hoo-19275/overview/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hoo-19275/overview/)


See the price of these bad boys?      :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on June 07, 2013, 11:10:31 pm
Way too much money. Why go with a taller tire again? What I mean is, a tire that is taller then what you got?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on June 07, 2013, 11:11:46 pm
See ya there Jim


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 08, 2013, 12:07:23 am
Way too much money. Why go with a taller tire again? What I mean is, a tire that is taller then what you got?


That is what I thought, too -- $$$.

I have 15" x 10' rims.

With the 4.56 rear gear and the C4 trans - I want a 30" tall tire - like what I have now.  I would prefer a 325mm wide tire.

I am not driving with sticky tires on the streets anymore.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Brent Clay on June 08, 2013, 09:48:42 am
Robert,  If you have a chance to hang out with Randy  (numbers)  do it.... you will learn so much from him.  He is a wealth of knowledge and he is a very cool guy.

just ask him about the old days with Dyno Don.

Brent


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on June 08, 2013, 03:02:26 pm
Way too much money. Why go with a taller tire again? What I mean is, a tire that is taller then what you got?


That is what I thought, too -- $$$.

I have 15" x 10' rims.

With the 4.56 rear gear and the C4 trans - I want a 30" tall tire - like what I have now.  I would prefer a 325mm wide tire.

I am not driving with sticky tires on the streets anymore.
Yep if its a true daily driver,  you need regular street tires. I tried the soft compound tires for semi daily driving, it did not work well.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on June 08, 2013, 09:28:26 pm
I am too busy right now.

My side job is really picking up - the hotter months I am so far very busy.      :rock

Here is an idea.....put off some of this side work so that you can go to this gathering. Just because work is coming your way does not mean you have to take it. Come on merc, think about it!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 351 windsor snake on June 09, 2013, 04:10:39 am
I am too busy right now.

My side job is really picking up - the hotter months I am so far very busy.      :rock

Here is an idea.....put off some of this side work so that you can go to this gathering. Just because work is coming your way does not mean you have to take it. Come on merc, think about it!
What a stupid reply.Robert is thinking ,thinking about bettering his families outlook.
His side job is a venture which is very customer focused which relies on bookings  and he no doubt needs to think of his customers needs before his own.
If you know Robert at all,you will know he is pretty carefull with his money(He doesn't have $10000.00 to throw away on average performing boss block turd) and therefore doesn't let work opportunities pass easily,especially if they help him afford the parts to make his car perform well when he does go.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 302ute on June 09, 2013, 06:07:40 am
A very good reply from my Kiwi friend. :clap  Put yourself in a better spot first. Work hard so you can play harder when the time comes......... :xmastree: :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on June 09, 2013, 08:49:55 am
I bet we could even get Robert picked up and dropped off. not sure there is a valid excuse here  :hmmmm:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 09, 2013, 10:26:39 am
I am too busy right now.

My side job is really picking up - the hotter months I am so far very busy.      :rock

Here is an idea.....put off some of this side work so that you can go to this gathering. Just because work is coming your way does not mean you have to take it. Come on merc, think about it!
What a stupid reply.Robert is thinking ,thinking about bettering his families outlook.
His side job is a venture which is very customer focused which relies on bookings  and he no doubt needs to think of his customers needs before his own.
If you know Robert at all,you will know he is pretty carefull with his money(He doesn't have $10000.00 to throw away on average performing boss block turd) and therefore doesn't let work opportunities pass easily,especially if they help him afford the parts to make his car perform well when he does go.



You know me well, my friend.



A very good reply from my Kiwi friend. :clap  Put yourself in a better spot first. Work hard so you can play harder when the time comes......... :xmastree: :burnout


Exactly!      :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 09, 2013, 10:30:45 am
Robert,  If you have a chance to hang out with Randy  (numbers)  do it.... you will learn so much from him.  He is a wealth of knowledge and he is a very cool guy.

just ask him about the old days with Dyno Don.

Brent


In the winter months here - business for my side-job dwindles down.  I will have saved up a good amount of money to spruce up the Merc.  In those cold months I will be making it to Irwindale.  That will have to be my schedule.  It will be nice and I am looking forward to meeting all of those outstanding and experienced people.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on June 09, 2013, 02:22:35 pm
Buy a set of SLICKS and keep them on a separate set of wheels for trips to the track.  Buy a set of big standard radials to run on the street everyday. 

Used sparingly, the slicks will last several years...  and will hook MUCH better than any other kind of tire you can install on the car.

Standard radials are far less expensive, and will allow you to play around on the street, spinning around on a regular basis, and last far, far, far longer than any drag radial. 

Money wise, you're WAY further ahead doing the above.  Quicker at the track, too!

Some like to sing the praises of drag radials, but for test and tune...  when the track isn't prepped the greatest...  slicks work WAY better! 

Good Luck!

Any thoughts on this, Robert?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 09, 2013, 03:27:45 pm
Buy a set of SLICKS and keep them on a separate set of wheels for trips to the track.  Buy a set of big standard radials to run on the street everyday. 

Used sparingly, the slicks will last several years...  and will hook MUCH better than any other kind of tire you can install on the car.

Standard radials are far less expensive, and will allow you to play around on the street, spinning around on a regular basis, and last far, far, far longer than any drag radial. 

Money wise, you're WAY further ahead doing the above.  Quicker at the track, too!

Some like to sing the praises of drag radials, but for test and tune...  when the track isn't prepped the greatest...  slicks work WAY better! 

Good Luck!

Any thoughts on this, Robert?



Yes, sorry I didn't reply, wasn't ignoring your excellent ideas.  I like your ideas.

I will buy some M/T slicks (IIRC = stiff wall slicks for heavy ride/auto trans) and these standard tread M/T for my DD street trips.

Carry the slicks with me to the track and switch them there.

Here are the DD tires that I like the best -->   http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-6643/overview/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-6643/overview/)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on June 09, 2013, 07:44:24 pm
dont no about California but Texas used slicks from craigs list.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on June 10, 2013, 01:06:38 am
Tim, do you have a set of MSD pills from 7,000-7,800 rpm?  If so please bring them.  I have found everything but those.  :duh  I'm set up to go as long as my parents don't bail on watching the kids until mommy gets home.  :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on June 10, 2013, 01:11:05 am
Nate, I will see if I have any tomorrow and let you know, not sure if I still have any left.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 11, 2013, 05:08:01 pm
My old rims sure come out nicely if I use some paper towels and Simple Green on them.


If you see this pull up next to you at the street light be VERY scared.      ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on July 11, 2013, 05:17:32 pm
Looks better.  Ever though about smoothing out the cuts around the rear wheels?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 11, 2013, 05:43:27 pm
 :P


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 18, 2013, 11:24:59 pm
Well I have some good news.

After work today I welded in some steel plates under the hood latch perches to make them a much more SOLID part of the Merc's front-end body.  Everything worked out very well - after they cooled down I tried to budge them even a C-hair and they weren't moving at all.

I was working in the direct sunlight at 3:30pm today, it was hot and I was tired so I had mistakenly forgot that when you weld with a MIG welder it "cinches" up everything.

So when I tried to put the hood back on the front latch and the two front pins fit OK but the two rear hood pins were a good 1/4" off (or more) so they weren't going to go thru the holes in the hood like they used to.

Well I sure did curse up a storm complaining about the HEAT some more.

I at first tried to drill them out some more but that wasn't working good in the multiple sandwich layers of thin steel and crossmembers that make up the Merc's hood.

I ended up pulling out my oxy-acetylene cutting torch assembly and made some quick work on those "moved" holes to make it work.  Thank God that when I painted it again (oxy-acetylene tears up and blisters paint jobs!  LOL!) and put the hood back on the Merc it was a VERY tight fit.  I was happy.

So for the drive home I took the freeway - floored the Merc when traffic permitted and took it to 80 mph or so and watched in happiness that the fucking hood didn't move - NOT one bit!  I was ecstatic because just the other day it had worked itself more and more so that even at just a WOT 60 mph it would shake back and forth side to side.

No more shaking!!!!      :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on July 18, 2013, 11:54:27 pm
 :rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on July 19, 2013, 02:27:54 am
Why don't you just have a fiberglass hood made that will be a snug fit, give the rear-of-the-hood ventilation that you want and actually look like it is sitting in it's place PLUS weigh a lot less to boot? You could also incorporate a scoop or some kind of raise in it that will give more engine clearance.

That's what I would do if I were you. Hacking around like this can't help much in the "pride in ownership" department.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 19, 2013, 09:48:32 am
Here is what I did to strengthen the hood pin assembly.  My gasless flux cored welds aren't the prettiest but they are functional.  This is before I painted the entire thing glossy white to prevent rust.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 19, 2013, 09:52:23 am
Why don't you just have a fiberglass hood made that will be a snug fit, give the rear-of-the-hood ventilation that you want and actually look like it is sitting in it's place PLUS weigh a lot less to boot? You could also incorporate a scoop or some kind of raise in it that will give more engine clearance.

That's what I would do if I were you. Hacking around like this can't help much in the "pride in ownership" department.


I took it to a very reputable shop here in OC and they told me that for a fiberglass hood it would be a minimum of $1500 because in the Merc's case it would have to be a one-off design.

Regardless of your opinion of my work and my Merc - I am very content with it and the functional work that I have done over the years on it.

I take pride in the fact that I do almost all of the work on the Merc - instead of those many credit card "heroes" who by the looks of their rides obviously didn't do the work themselves.  The rough look of the Merc fits MY personality to a "T", plus it helps deter thieves.

 :D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on July 19, 2013, 10:14:59 am
Why don't you just have a fiberglass hood made that will be a snug fit, give the rear-of-the-hood ventilation that you want and actually look like it is sitting in it's place PLUS weigh a lot less to boot? You could also incorporate a scoop or some kind of raise in it that will give more engine clearance.

That's what I would do if I were you. Hacking around like this can't help much in the "pride in ownership" department.

You get some sand kicked in your face for your engine build, and you feel the need to be rude to others whenever you can. 

Why?

Even if you believe a fiberglass hood would be a good idea, there are plenty of nicer ways to say so.



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on July 19, 2013, 10:30:47 am
Not to bash you Robert, but you couldnt find another way to move the holes without a torch?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 19, 2013, 10:33:15 am
Not to bash you Robert, but you couldnt find another way to move the holes without a torch?


LMAO!  No, at the time the heat had already fried my brain - I wanted to be done with it so I could drive it home without having to bug the lady or take the bus.  There was no way in hell that I would have parked the Merc in the street overnight with no hood on it ... and besides, I fixed the holes underneath the hood some after I "moved" them and now the hood pin/latch deal fits together better than before!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on July 19, 2013, 10:41:30 am
That works


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on July 19, 2013, 11:12:42 am
You get some sand kicked in your face for your engine build, and you feel the need to be rude to others whenever you can. 

Nothing rude about what I said to merc and no I didn't get sand kicked in my face regarding my engine. What makes you think all that?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 19, 2013, 11:17:27 am
You get some sand kicked in your face for your engine build, and you feel the need to be rude to others whenever you can.  

Nothing rude about what I said to merc and no I didn't get sand kicked in my face regarding my engine. What makes you think all that?


I took your post to be rude, also.  You have been argumentative and combative on different threads lately.

You should know me by now - so your comment about my "hacking" around and attempting to put me down about "pride in ownership" comments are shitty.  You have been doing that a lot lately, and not just to me.

You have been a member here long enough to know me - I really enjoy the Merc, I live in a shitty neighborhood full of gang bangers and other low lifes, and I like how the Merc performs and how it looks.  I like that rough, ragged yet fast look for the two reasons that I told you and others about - it deters thieves and it's obvious that a professional didn't do the work.  Except for the engine and the trans - I don't want others to do the work for me.  Obviously it's not right in your mind but that is how I am.

"The best way to get along with people is to not expect them to be like YOU."      :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on July 19, 2013, 11:19:00 am
I took it to a very reputable shop here in OC and they told me that for a fiberglass hood it would be a minimum of $1500 because in the Merc's case it would have to be a one-off design.

I take pride in the fact that I do almost all of the work on the Merc - instead of those many credit card "heroes" who by the looks of their rides obviously didn't do the work themselves. 

Minimum of $1500 doesnt sound bad at all and if you are not into credit cards, then pay cash. Problem solved.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 19, 2013, 11:19:58 am
I took it to a very reputable shop here in OC and they told me that for a fiberglass hood it would be a minimum of $1500 because in the Merc's case it would have to be a one-off design.

I take pride in the fact that I do almost all of the work on the Merc - instead of those many credit card "heroes" who by the looks of their rides obviously didn't do the work themselves. 

Minimum of $1500 doesnt sound bad at all and if you are not into credit cards, then pay cash. Problem solved.


Not going to happen.  I like how the custom hood that I modified from it's stock original form has evolved.  I did it and I like it.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on July 19, 2013, 04:26:25 pm
I really enjoy the Merc, I live in a shitty neighborhood full of gang bangers and other low lifes, and I like how the Merc performs and how it looks.  I like that rough, ragged yet fast look for the two reasons that I told you and others about - it deters thieves and it's obvious that a professional didn't do the work.  Except for the engine and the trans - I don't want others to do the work for me.  Obviously it's not right in your mind but that is how I am.

Hmm, I would be curious to see you expand on this.

If you got your hands on a brand new Lamborghini Gallardo and this were your new car to drive, would you beat the piss out of it, make it look like crap, cut the wheel wells without any precision etc. to give it that ragged, rough look?

I have known plenty of folks that had the "this is what I have, this is what I am used to, so I will make myself happy with it and force myself to like it" school of thought. Over time, they really begin to like it. Any possibility this is you too?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on July 19, 2013, 04:35:02 pm
Hmm, I would be curious to see you expand on this.

If you got your hands on a brand new Lamborghini Gallardo and this were your new car to drive, would you beat the piss out of it, make it look like crap, cut the wheel wells without any precision etc. to give it that ragged, rough look?

I have known plenty of folks that had the "this is what I have, this is what I am used to, so I will make myself happy with it and force myself to like it" school of thought. Over time, they really begin to like it. Any possibility this is you too?


Why should he be questioned by you?  Robert doesn't have to answer to you.  You're doing nothing more than being a jerk. 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 19, 2013, 06:06:06 pm
Hmm, I would be curious to see you expand on this.

If you got your hands on a brand new Lamborghini Gallardo and this were your new car to drive, would you beat the piss out of it, make it look like crap, cut the wheel wells without any precision etc. to give it that ragged, rough look?

I have known plenty of folks that had the "this is what I have, this is what I am used to, so I will make myself happy with it and force myself to like it" school of thought. Over time, they really begin to like it. Any possibility this is you too?


Why should he be questioned by you?  Robert doesn't have to answer to you.  You're doing nothing more than being a jerk.  



Thanks, Mike - you are a good guy in my book.


Z-adamson doesn't understand me.  I'm not sure but I guess that he enjoys feeling superior to me in his mind which is fine by me.  He is harmless.  He doesn't make any sense, either.  How in the wide world could I ever get a Gallardo?!?!      :spit:

If I did I of course wouldn't modify it at all.  I would sell it and enjoy the money in making my Merc the Ultimate Scary Fast Sleeper with a HUGE turbo that would make MightyMouse's turbo that he changed for a S/C seem tiny in comparison.  (LOL!)

Z-adamson doesn't understand that I am building a Sleeper one day at a time myself.  I don't want a perfect car that has been made by a group of renown professionals.  Then I am just the DRIVER.  I am that different breed who gets off of the Sleeper look ...

"Beat the piss out of it" - LOL!! That just shows the excellent quality and workmanship of both Woody on the 408W and Joe & his son my transmission guys!  The engine runs just as well and as strong as it did from day one.  It is a work of art.  And the trans has been holding it's own against my driving habits and the power of Woody's 408W for awhile, now!

I wish that I had pictures of the $500 Merc that I bought many years ago from a co-worker.  The Merc looks MUCH better than it did on that day.

"Make it look like crap" - funny, daily (and I mean daily) I get strangers telling me at the stoplight or coming up to me when I park it and am getting out of it how "that Merc looks siiiiick" (the good kind) or how that "Merc looks badass, dude" or "how big is that big block under your hood, man?"

So regardless of Z-adamson's banter I am going to always get the last laugh ...      :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on July 19, 2013, 06:33:10 pm
Sounds like typical rich kid.  Makes up for low self esteem by picking on others.

You're happier with the merc then he ever would be with a lambo.  You win.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on July 19, 2013, 07:06:25 pm
Why should he be questioned by you?  Robert doesn't have to answer to you.  

As I am sure you can tell, he likes answering questions, be it from me or anyone. Don't believe me, look at this thread and his other 350 page thread. He like being questioned by everyone. He like to talk. Lots of long winded posts to show it.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: pa308 on July 19, 2013, 07:12:15 pm
Screw everyone merc. Do what makes u happy n what u can.i do all my own work n whether or not it turns out ok idc cause i did it myself. And dont let a certain dousche bag ruin ur day or get u down. Gd job n  keep turnings them wrenches


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on July 19, 2013, 09:02:52 pm
Robert you have a real hot rod for sure.  doesn't that other guy have a minivan


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on July 19, 2013, 09:08:11 pm
I took it to a very reputable shop here in OC and they told me that for a fiberglass hood it would be a minimum of $1500 because in the Merc's case it would have to be a one-off design.

I take pride in the fact that I do almost all of the work on the Merc - instead of those many credit card "heroes" who by the looks of their rides obviously didn't do the work themselves. 

Minimum of $1500 doesnt sound bad at all and if you are not into credit cards, then pay cash. Problem solved.

Dude, that's nothing.  You should buy if for him!  :idea


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 19, 2013, 09:20:30 pm
Sounds like typical rich kid.  Makes up for low self esteem by picking on others.

You're happier with the merc then he ever would be with a lambo.  You win.


Screw everyone merc. Do what makes u happy n what u can.i do all my own work n whether or not it turns out ok idc cause i did it myself. And dont let a certain dousche bag ruin ur day or get u down. Gd job n  keep turnings them wrenches


Robert you have a real hot rod for sure.  doesn't that other guy have a minivan





Dude, that's nothing.  You should buy it for him!  :idea


 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on July 19, 2013, 09:55:45 pm
I took it to a very reputable shop here in OC and they told me that for a fiberglass hood it would be a minimum of $1500 because in the Merc's case it would have to be a one-off design.

I take pride in the fact that I do almost all of the work on the Merc - instead of those many credit card "heroes" who by the looks of their rides obviously didn't do the work themselves. 

Minimum of $1500 doesnt sound bad at all and if you are not into credit cards, then pay cash. Problem solved.

Dude, that's nothing.  You should buy if for him!  :idea

That doesn't fit his criteria. Robert needs to by the fiberglass and resin. Then have Z build it for him for free! You know, since labor costs nothing!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on July 19, 2013, 09:59:42 pm
Hmm, I would be curious to see you expand on this.

If you got your hands on a brand new Lamborghini Gallardo and this were your new car to drive, would you beat the piss out of it, make it look like crap, cut the wheel wells without any precision etc. to give it that ragged, rough look?

I have known plenty of folks that had the "this is what I have, this is what I am used to, so I will make myself happy with it and force myself to like it" school of thought. Over time, they really begin to like it. Any possibility this is you too?


Bam Margera sure jacked up his Lambo just to have a little fun.

My car was ugly as sin before I painted it and drove it around for a while like that.  I still thought it was cool and was darn proud of it.  I actually like the look of Robert's Mercury from the pictures I've seen.  I'd be proud of it if it was mine Robert.  :) 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on July 19, 2013, 10:00:57 pm
That doesn't fit his criteria. Robert needs to by the fiberglass and resin. Then have Z build it for him for free! You know, since labor costs nothing!

 :spit:  Now that was funny!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on July 19, 2013, 10:05:42 pm
If it were mine, I'd do it like this.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on July 20, 2013, 11:48:19 am
If Robert is happy with it, that is all that matters.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: garsten on July 20, 2013, 01:17:05 pm

I take pride in the fact that I do almost all of the work on the Merc - instead of those many credit card "heroes" who by the looks of their rides obviously didn't do the work themselves.


i'm sure you will agree with this robert, something i've learned first hand the hard way.

if you don't have the space, the time, the skills, and/or the tools, you are far better off paying someone else to do the job.

cheers, claude


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on July 20, 2013, 02:11:44 pm

I take pride in the fact that I do almost all of the work on the Merc - instead of those many credit card "heroes" who by the looks of their rides obviously didn't do the work themselves.


i'm sure you will agree with this robert, something i've learned first hand the hard way.

if you don't have the space, the time, the skills, and/or the tools, you are far better off paying someone else to do the job.

cheers, claude

His car is functional and works...   It's functional to the point he truly drives it daily...  which is far more than what most of us can claim.  Most of what people are hating on, is cosmetic.  He doesn't care if most people see his car as 'ugly'.  It runs good, is reliable, and he's done most of the work himself.  Hats off to the guy.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Brent Clay on July 20, 2013, 02:32:04 pm
I have grown to love the MERC..  :ban

What Robert has done with his "Passion" is great!  I respect anyone who has passion for something and for Robert, that is his Merc.

It might not be my taste, however it is Roberts own taste!  (It has grown on me and I like it the way it is, there is just something cool about the Merc.)

Cant wait for you to get some slicks and nitrous on that thing Robert...... you are going to piss off a lot of RICE with that big ole car of yours  :thumb:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 01, 2013, 11:10:13 am
Well, I got REAL sick and tired of blowing up the C4 with the 408W's torque, my crazy daily driving habits and the heavy Merc - so I pulled the trigger on a custom built C6 transmission which should be installed and ready to drive maybe the third week of August.  (I had first looked into the cost of a TH400 mod mating a Chevy trans to a Ford engine and install job -- it was too expensive for me.)

The C6 will be internally upgraded with better planetaries, the wide ratio gear set, more clutches in both forward and direct drums, a better intermediate band, a better band lever, a better servo, a Coan reverse pattern manual V/B, 225 psi line pressure, a few mods internally on the direct drive drum so it will shift hard and fast like I like it and a 5500rpm stall T/C.  I also will have a trans fluid temp gauge installed in the deep pan.

I will be posting progress pics when they come from my guys' shop.

I know that I will be giving up a little bit of acceleration but I have grown to care more about longevity and this C6 for my 408W and heavy Merc will be bullet-proof.


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on August 01, 2013, 11:45:19 am
Well, I got REAL sick and tired of blowing up the C4 with the 408W's torque, my crazy daily driving habits and the heavy Merc - so I pulled the trigger on a custom built C6 transmission which should be installed and ready to drive maybe the third week of August.  (I had first looked into the cost of a TH400 mod mating a Chevy trans to a Ford engine and install job -- it was too expensive for me.)

The C6 will be internally upgraded with better planetaries, the wide ratio gear set, more clutches in both forward and direct drums, a better intermediate band, a better band lever, a better servo, a Coan reverse pattern manual V/B, 225 psi line pressure, a few mods internally on the direct drive drum so it will shift hard and fast like I like it and a 5500rpm stall T/C.  I also will have a trans fluid temp gauge installed in the deep pan.

I will be posting progress pics when they come from my guys' shop.

I know that I will be giving up a little bit of acceleration but I have grown to care more about longevity and this C6 for my 408W and heavy Merc will be bullet-proof.


 :burnout

What's happening to the C4?  :wonder:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 01, 2013, 11:46:30 am


What's happening to the C4?  :wonder:


It is up for sale.  A refreshed C4 with a Coan reverse pattern manual V/B.  $850 OBO.      :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 01, 2013, 01:46:01 pm
Robert that's what I have in my car. When we raced the car
25 yrs ago we blew up every c4 we put into it. Finally put a c6
And it is still going today. When I get time I'm going to freshen.
We put all the parts out a Cobrajet 428 c6. It had a rigid band
And a big servo and drums with more clutches


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 01, 2013, 02:20:16 pm
The C6 will be internally upgraded with better planetaries, the wide ratio gear set, more clutches in both forward and direct drums, a better intermediate band, a better band lever, a better servo, a Coan reverse pattern manual V/B, 225 psi line pressure, a few mods internally on the direct drive drum so it will shift hard and fast like I like it and a 5500rpm stall T/C.  I also will have a trans fluid temp gauge installed in the deep pan.

I will be posting progress pics when they come from my guys' shop.

I know that I will be giving up a little bit of acceleration but I have grown to care more about longevity and this C6 for my 408W and heavy Merc will be bullet-proof.

Good for you. Think about how many times I have told you to do exactly this and you said I was full of crap for the suggestion.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 01, 2013, 02:21:46 pm
The C6 will be internally upgraded with better planetaries, the wide ratio gear set, more clutches in both forward and direct drums, a better intermediate band, a better band lever, a better servo, a Coan reverse pattern manual V/B, 225 psi line pressure, a few mods internally on the direct drive drum so it will shift hard and fast like I like it and a 5500rpm stall T/C.  I also will have a trans fluid temp gauge installed in the deep pan.

I will be posting progress pics when they come from my guys' shop.

I know that I will be giving up a little bit of acceleration but I have grown to care more about longevity and this C6 for my 408W and heavy Merc will be bullet-proof.

Good for you. Think about how many times I have told you to do exactly this and you said I was full of crap for the suggestion.


"and you said that I was full of crap for the suggestion"


I was that rude to you?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 01, 2013, 07:28:29 pm
"and you said that I was full of crap for the suggestion"


I was that rude to you?

As I recall you were not very rude about it, nor is saying "full of crap" rude.

Point being, and I know you know what I am talking about, I told you this would be the best thing over and over and you basically pointed at me and laughed for suggesting it. Now look what you are doing...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 01, 2013, 09:52:25 pm
"and you said that I was full of crap for the suggestion"


I was that rude to you?

As I recall you were not very rude about it, nor is saying "full of crap" rude.

Point being, and I know you know what I am talking about, I told you this would be the best thing over and over and you basically pointed at me and laughed for suggesting it. Now look what you are doing...


I didn't like your C6 suggestions because I knew that the added weight and the larger internals that will take more power to turn will not help the heavy Merc's acceleration.  It would be spectacular if the better T/C will run as fast as the C4 but that is probably a long shot wish ...      :dunno

I finally had to get more realistic with the big picture so I had to bite the bullet anyways - whether I liked it or not.  Such is life many, many times ...


 ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 01, 2013, 10:08:34 pm
a little sniff of n2o and u will forget about the weight and internals when it doesn't break


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on August 02, 2013, 12:49:03 am
Good for you. Think about how many times I have told you to do exactly this and you said I was full of crap for the suggestion.

Isn't it irritating when people are stubborn.   ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on August 02, 2013, 10:37:46 am
You know, the merc isnt all that heavy, it may be compared to a gutted race car, but many of todays cars are in the 4000lb range. Look at the new mustangs and camaros.
Hope this trans works out for you, I dont think you will have any problems with it.
Question, will your headers and exhaust clear?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 02, 2013, 11:04:38 am
I hope your accufabs fit a c6 better than mine. Mine were ordered for a c6 with a Eng plate. Took alot of heating and bending to fit. I hope you have a torch.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 02, 2013, 11:18:52 am
Joe said that the small block C6 will fit.  He measured while the C4 was out of the car the other day.  But, if the headers turn out to need some "massaging" I have a MAPP torch and an oxyacetylene, too.


I have my C4 on Craig'slist and RacingJunk for $750 -- 26 views but not one email nor phone call?      :(


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Fst Blk on August 02, 2013, 01:21:38 pm
I'm surprised you didn't consider a built 4r70w. I think your wallet would have appreciated the O/D gear with those 4.56's out back.

Bill


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on August 02, 2013, 01:36:23 pm
A properly built C-4 will live no problem. Now you have a power robbing truck trans that will slow the car down. You are better off with a Turbo 400. Just for comparison sake, my friends brothers mustang had a C-6 302 combo, it ran 14.40's-14.50's. Just going to a C-4 resulted in 14.0-13.90!.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 02, 2013, 03:15:32 pm
A properly built C-4 will live no problem. Now you have a power robbing truck trans that will slow the car down. You are better off with a Turbo 400. Just for comparison sake, my friends brothers mustang had a C-6 302 combo, it ran 14.40's-14.50's. Just going to a C-4 resulted in 14.0-13.90!.


I have called three "reputable" trans companies -- Mike's transmission, Coan and Continental and they all agreed that with my DD habits, the 408W and the heavy Merc -- they ALL agreed that the C4 is not going to last -- just like it hasn't.  Driving style, engine torque and vehicle weight have a LOT to do with how long the trans will last.  Your friends' brother's Mustang I'm sure weighs a lot less than my Merc, probably doesn't have a high stalling T/C and he probably doesn't drive it rough daily like I do ...

A TH400 was $1500 more and I have stretched my account enough with the C6.

I am happy with my "grown-up" decision.  I have to go with what money I can work with.  I am not currently building a race car, I want a decently fast DD street car that I can have a lot of fun with two times a day that will last ...


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 02, 2013, 03:55:52 pm
Robert I never had any regrets with changing over to a c6. When I get my new short block I will end up with a powerglide but will be running that old c6 first


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 02, 2013, 05:26:08 pm
A properly built C-4 will live no problem. Now you have a power robbing truck trans that will slow the car down. You are better off with a Turbo 400. Just for comparison sake, my friends brothers mustang had a C-6 302 combo, it ran 14.40's-14.50's. Just going to a C-4 resulted in 14.0-13.90!.

If it is true that a properly built c4 will work just fine for merc, then you are saying that his transmission builder sucks at what he does considering the numerous c4 failures that he has had.

Either his builder sucks or a c4 just wont cut it...one or the other.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 02, 2013, 05:32:21 pm
A properly built C-4 will live no problem. Now you have a power robbing truck trans that will slow the car down. You are better off with a Turbo 400. Just for comparison sake, my friends brothers mustang had a C-6 302 combo, it ran 14.40's-14.50's. Just going to a C-4 resulted in 14.0-13.90!.

If it is true that a properly built c4 will work just fine for merc, then you are saying that his transmission builder sucks at what he does considering the numerous c4 failures that he has had.

Either his builder sucks or a c4 just wont cut it...one or the other.


Trust me or not my guy knows what he is doing.  He is also a good man who has honored his word with me personally more than a few times in the years that I have known him.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 02, 2013, 05:56:40 pm
Trust me or not my guy knows what he is doing.  He is also a good man who has honored his word with me personally more than a few times in the years that I have known him.

Is the guy that did the c4 the same guy that is building the c6?

How much will it cost?

What trans is the wide ratio gears from? e4od? 4r100?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 02, 2013, 06:12:30 pm
Trust me or not my guy knows what he is doing.  He is also a good man who has honored his word with me personally more than a few times in the years that I have known him.

Is the guy that did the c4 the same guy that is building the c6?

How much will it cost?

What trans is the wide ratio gears from? e4od? 4r100?


Yes, I only have one engine builder (Jim Woods) and only one trans builder (Joe Piraino).

I'm not exactly sure where the wide ratio gears come from.  It will have a 2.74 first gear.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on August 02, 2013, 06:19:00 pm
A properly built C-4 will live no problem. Now you have a power robbing truck trans that will slow the car down. You are better off with a Turbo 400. Just for comparison sake, my friends brothers mustang had a C-6 302 combo, it ran 14.40's-14.50's. Just going to a C-4 resulted in 14.0-13.90!.

If it is true that a properly built c4 will work just fine for merc, then you are saying that his transmission builder sucks at what he does considering the numerous c4 failures that he has had.

Either his builder sucks or a c4 just wont cut it...one or the other.
Or we are spoiled with some really good trans guys here in the Detroit area.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 03, 2013, 02:09:35 am
Or we are spoiled with some really good trans guys here in the Detroit area.

That's the same as saying his builder sucks because the builders in Detroit are so much better by comparison.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on August 03, 2013, 01:22:18 pm
Or we are spoiled with some really good trans guys here in the Detroit area.

That's the same as saying his builder sucks because the builders in Detroit are so much better by comparison.

Bill knows what he's talking about.  All he is saying is that there are shops that get C4's to hold up behind extreme power.   

http://www.performanceautomatic.com/products/ford-racing-transmissions/c4-transmissions/c4-super-comp-transmission.html


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on August 03, 2013, 01:31:25 pm
IMO, its not the power or weight that's causing the failures. Its the use, or abuse. You can't beat on something everyday and expect it to just keep going. If he drives the way he says that he does, I'm surprised that he hasn't had more than transmission problems.

A C6 (or other trans) may last longer, but don't expect it to just keep going. At least not in that service.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on August 03, 2013, 05:58:50 pm
Or we are spoiled with some really good trans guys here in the Detroit area.

That's the same as saying his builder sucks because the builders in Detroit are so much better by comparison.
Never said that. When there are 9 second 3000-3200 lb street cars with C-4 transmissions that live for years, why can't Roberts?.  No reason to argue over this, its his choice.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 03, 2013, 07:56:50 pm
Or we are spoiled with some really good trans guys here in the Detroit area.

That's the same as saying his builder sucks because the builders in Detroit are so much better by comparison.

Bill knows what he's talking about.  All he is saying is that there are shops that get C4's to hold up behind extreme power.   

http://www.performanceautomatic.com/products/ford-racing-transmissions/c4-transmissions/c4-super-comp-transmission.html


My guy Joe had called Performance Automatics and Coan Racing and had talked with their trans builders to builder about the measurements that they use.  They compared notes together concerning making the Merc's C4 last.  Clutch pack internals, drum mods, spacing, etc.  Like I said, this is not Joe's first rodeo.


IMO, its not the power or weight that's causing the failures. Its the use, or abuse. You can't beat on something everyday and expect it to just keep going. If he drives the way he says that he does, I'm surprised that he hasn't had more than transmission problems.

A C6 (or other trans) may last longer, but don't expect it to just keep going. At least not in that service.


I realize that none of us build and repair automatic transmissions for a living.

So, nonetheless -- I have called upon many of the pro's, including my guy Joe, and my engine builder Jim -- all of them have said that I can beat the shit out of this C6 daily with the 408W and I'm not going to break it ...


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 03, 2013, 08:01:48 pm
Or we are spoiled with some really good trans guys here in the Detroit area.

That's the same as saying his builder sucks because the builders in Detroit are so much better by comparison.

Bill knows what he's talking about.  All he is saying is that there are shops that get C4's to hold up behind extreme power.   

http://www.performanceautomatic.com/products/ford-racing-transmissions/c4-transmissions/c4-super-comp-transmission.html


Nate -- you don't think that I had NOT called them?      :spit:


They didn't like the heavy Merc, either.

And, I would have to pay shipping to MD there and back.  $700 for shipping.

Plus, I would have to pull the trans and crate it every time.  I thought, "fuck that"!

 :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on August 03, 2013, 08:44:33 pm
IMO, its not the power or weight that's causing the failures. Its the use, or abuse. You can't beat on something everyday and expect it to just keep going. If he drives the way he says that he does, I'm surprised that he hasn't had more than transmission problems.

A C6 (or other trans) may last longer, but don't expect it to just keep going. At least not in that service.

I realize that none of us build and repair automatic transmissions for a living.

So, nonetheless -- I have called upon many of the pro's, including my guy Joe, and my engine builder Jim -- all of them have said that I can beat the shit out of this C6 daily with the 408W and I'm not going to break it .
[/quote]

Robert, I wasn't just referring to transmissions but breakage in general. It wouldn't matter what vehicle and components you have. If you drive any vehicle like you claim to drive your Merc, you can expect competent failure. I'm not being a dick about it, its just the way it is.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 03, 2013, 09:22:03 pm
I wonder how hard itd be to get a 4l80e in there. I hear they live behind 700wrhp in junkyard form. even in 5000lb rides


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Fst Blk on August 03, 2013, 10:05:09 pm
I wonder how hard itd be to get a 4l80e in there. I hear they live behind 700wrhp in junkyard form. even in 5000lb rides

Now those are some tough trannies.

Bill


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 03, 2013, 11:34:05 pm
I wonder how hard itd be to get a 4l80e in there. I hear they live behind 700wrhp in junkyard form. even in 5000lb rides


Joe said the C6 was the best economical trans for the Merc.


We also have talked that it can be upgraded to handle twice the power that the 408W currently is making for my dream engine that I will have Jim build for me one day ... before I am dead or too old where I can't see good, or hear good or my reflexes are too slow to safely drive!


 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 03, 2013, 11:36:44 pm


Robert, I wasn't just referring to transmissions but breakage in general. It wouldn't matter what vehicle and components you have. If you drive any vehicle like you claim to drive your Merc, you can expect competent failure. I'm not being a dick about it, its just the way it is.


I wasn't really referring to you, I didn't think that you were being a dick about it.  The "none of us are trans professional" remark was directed towards the few who keep saying that a C4 can be built to last for years WITH ME.

 :P


Peace to all, anyways!        ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 04, 2013, 12:34:07 am
Joe said the C6 was the best economical trans for the Merc.

We also have talked that it can be upgraded to handle twice the power that the 408W currently is making for my dream engine that I will have Jim build for me one day ... before I am dead or too old where I can't see good, or hear good or my reflexes are too slow to safely drive.

So merc, whats the price tag on this c6 you are getting?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 04, 2013, 08:15:28 pm
ask joe about a 4l80e. run it off a megasuirt from sloppy


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 06, 2013, 02:56:49 pm
Joe said the C6 was the best economical trans for the Merc.

We also have talked that it can be upgraded to handle twice the power that the 408W currently is making for my dream engine that I will have Jim build for me one day ... before I am dead or too old where I can't see good, or hear good or my reflexes are too slow to safely drive.

So merc, whats the price tag on this c6 you are getting?


This one has a built C6 and a T/C -->  http://www.gearstar.net/m/transmissions/more.php?unid=71&catunid= (http://www.gearstar.net/m/transmissions/more.php?unid=71&catunid=)

For $3395, then you have to pay tax and freight for that ...

Mine has all of that ^


And mine ALSO has a Coan manual reverse pattern V/B, wide ratio gear set with a stronger steel planetary, stick & tube, Autometer trans fluid temp gauge (deep pan mod to mount included), crossmember & mount, drive-shaft & yoke, matching flexplate, a starter gear mod for the new flexplate, plus their labor for a pull, mod & install and 12 quarts of synthetic racing trans fluid.

I am paying $3500 out the door for all of my stuff.      :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 06, 2013, 03:38:32 pm
I am also going to be installing a 36" woofer in the back seat of the Merc next week.:spit:







http://thechive.com/2013/07/29/the-bass-hits-this-girl-hard-video/?obref=obinsite (http://thechive.com/2013/07/29/the-bass-hits-this-girl-hard-video/?obref=obinsite)


:rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on August 06, 2013, 05:14:43 pm
I am also going to be installing a 36" woofer in the back seat of the Merc next week.:spit:







http://thechive.com/2013/07/29/the-bass-hits-this-girl-hard-video/?obref=obinsite (http://thechive.com/2013/07/29/the-bass-hits-this-girl-hard-video/?obref=obinsite)


:rock

Damn!  Count me in too!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 06, 2013, 05:26:46 pm
I am also going to be installing a 36" woofer in the back seat of the Merc next week.:spit:







http://thechive.com/2013/07/29/the-bass-hits-this-girl-hard-video/?obref=obinsite (http://thechive.com/2013/07/29/the-bass-hits-this-girl-hard-video/?obref=obinsite)


:rock

Damn!  Count me in too!


After I saw 1/2 of that video where she got "blasted" the first time I thought that it was just a "prank" her "enjoyment", but after I kept watching it I changed my mind towards it after seeing her reaction after her second time of the heavy & loud bass "blast" -- she convinced me that she really WAS getting off.


 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 06, 2013, 08:25:28 pm


What trans is the wide ratio gears from? e4od? 4r100?


The wide ratio gear set and some other internal parts are coming from the diesel 4r100 trans for added strength so the Merc and I can NOT break it.


http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/ford/1005dp_the_makings_of_a_bulletproff_ford_4r100_transmission/ (http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/ford/1005dp_the_makings_of_a_bulletproff_ford_4r100_transmission/)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: badwhite98 on August 06, 2013, 08:56:10 pm
You can get a full boogie Rossler T-400 for that money.

http://www.rosslertrans.com/Th400%20options2.htm


C-6's belong in dumptrucks.

Youll be much happier and faster with a Glide or a 400.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 06, 2013, 09:27:33 pm
You can get a full boogie Rossler T-400 for that money.

http://www.rosslertrans.com/Th400%20options2.htm


C-6's belong in dumptrucks.

Youll be much happier and faster with a Glide or a 400.


No, I disagree on a few counts.

Making a Chevy trans work with a Ford engine costs more than what you apparently are thinking about.  And of course, you need to figure the cost of labor.  Of course my guy isn't working for free.

With the heavy Merc and it's power level -- I need three gears, not a PG.

To make a 400 work with the Merc would have been too expensive for me, as I had covered earlier at this thread.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 07, 2013, 12:39:13 am
The wide ratio gear set and some other internal parts are coming from the diesel 4r100 trans for added strength so the Merc and I can NOT break it.

That's the way to do it. Using the 4r100 parts, I am pretty sure rollerizes everything but reverse plus it lightens some key components by several pounds. 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 07, 2013, 10:33:59 am
Yes, like this -->   


http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/drivetrain/mdmp_1203_ford_c6_transmission_upgrades/ (http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/drivetrain/mdmp_1203_ford_c6_transmission_upgrades/)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 07, 2013, 07:01:12 pm
you could do a 4l80e way cheaper


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 07, 2013, 08:16:47 pm
Yes, like this -->    http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/drivetrain/mdmp_1203_ford_c6_transmission_upgrades/ (http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/drivetrain/mdmp_1203_ford_c6_transmission_upgrades/)

Interesting......thats the guy that built my c6. Chris at CK Performance. Transmission, TC and flexplate ran just over $3K.

So far, happy with the transmission. Wouldent buy there again though since the service BLOWS.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 07, 2013, 08:49:31 pm
you could do a 4l80e way cheaper

Cheaper than what? $3K?

Are we talking cost of the 4l80e vs cost of the c6 or are we also figuring in all the extra work and parts involved to make each given trans work in the merc?

I wouldn't know from first hand experience, but I would have to guess that there is a lot involved in making that gm computer controlled transmission work in a ford. I would be very surprised if a high end build on that 4l80e plus EVERYTHING else involved would come in way cheaper.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 07, 2013, 08:57:15 pm
the biggest hurdle would be the bell housing, converter, and flexplate but I dont think itd be much different than converting a powerglide


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 07, 2013, 09:00:18 pm
you could do a 4l80e way cheaper

Cheaper than what? $3K?

Are we talking cost of the 4l80e vs cost of the c6 or are we also figuring in all the extra work and parts involved to make each given trans work in the merc?

I wouldn't know from fist hand experience, but I would have to guess that there is a lot involved in making that gm computer controlled transmission work in a ford. I would be very surprised if a high end build on that 4l80e plus EVERYTHING else involved would come in way cheaper.


Not even close -- any GM trans would be considerably more expensive compared to the C6.  Plus, Joe is building this C6 stuff as heck and he is lightening it's rotating assemblies, too!

And after I learned that first-hand -- I have completely changed my mind and am keeping my Merc 100% Ford.


the biggest hurdle would be the bell housing, converter, and flexplate but I dont think itd be much different than converting a powerglide


The 4L80E is a glorified TH400, so it is even more expensive ...



http://jakesperformance.com/4L80E.html (http://jakesperformance.com/4L80E.html)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 07, 2013, 09:02:42 pm
theres guys making stock $99 4l80e's live with a custom tune in 5000lb ride with 700rwhp. and OD to boot


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 07, 2013, 09:07:46 pm
theres guys making stock $99 4l80e's live with a custom tune in 5000lb ride with 700rwhp. and OD to boot


And when I get the Merc back it will rip a couple of 5 second passes ...      :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 07, 2013, 09:08:49 pm
also my understanding is all the c6 needs is a mvb and it will live in stock form. there is no aftermarket because they are strong trannys and they dont need aftermarket parts. the only reason why people dont run them is because they are powerhogs but figure it only eats another 30-35hp over a c4


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 07, 2013, 09:10:39 pm
theres guys making stock $99 4l80e's live with a custom tune in 5000lb ride with 700rwhp. and OD to boot


And when I get the Merc back it will rip a couple of 5 second passes ...      :burnout

Robert I love ya buddy but it will probably take 250-300hp worth of spray and a bunch of chassis tuning to get her in the 5's. its not that easy


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on August 07, 2013, 09:17:09 pm
Robert I love ya buddy but it will probably take 250-300hp worth of spray and a bunch of chassis tuning to get her in the 5's. its not that easy

Even then, I doubt it.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 07, 2013, 09:18:42 pm
also my understanding is all the c6 needs is a mvb and it will live in stock form. there is no aftermarket because they are strong trannys and they dont need aftermarket parts. the only reason why people dont run them is because they are powerhogs but figure it only eats another 30-35hp over a c4


Joe is making it lighter internally and he is also strengthening some things because he knows how crazy I like to put-put around town with the Merc, daily.

He also is modifying it so it shifts very HARD and FAST -- I love the jerky back slamming that it can do when modded to my liking!  Feels like a race car!

 ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 07, 2013, 09:20:18 pm
Robert I love ya buddy but it will probably take 250-300hp worth of spray and a bunch of chassis tuning to get her in the 5's. its not that easy

Even then, I doubt it.


Ha!  One day God willing the Merc will scare EVEN ME (it will take more than 300hp to scare me) -- IOW on the ground it takes a boat load of power to truly scare me on four wheels.


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 07, 2013, 10:06:35 pm
hell yea a sledge hammer 250hp hit and a 300hp hit it will go 5s


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on August 07, 2013, 11:08:01 pm
hell yea a sledge hammer 250hp hit and a 300hp hit it will go 5s

Once.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on August 08, 2013, 03:29:57 am
hell yea a sledge hammer 250hp hit and a 300hp hit it will go 5s

Once.
Yup


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on August 08, 2013, 03:35:37 am
My question is what makes a GM trans significantly more expensive?
To the others What makes it a better trans?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 08, 2013, 04:42:39 am
My question is what makes a GM trans significantly more expensive?
To the others What makes it a better trans?


TH400 is strong, takes little power to turn. Lots of aftermarket support too. Might weigh less as well, not sure though. Not sure why they would cost more...depends on what goes in to the build though (just like engines). Part of costing more would be all that is required to make it work on a sbf.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 08, 2013, 09:13:59 am
My question is what makes a GM trans significantly more expensive?
To the others What makes it a better trans?


TH400 is strong, takes little power to turn. Lots of aftermarket support too. Might weigh less as well, not sure though. Not sure why they would cost more...depends on what goes in to the build though (just like engines). Part of costing more would be all that is required to make it work on a sbf.


A 400 is almost as heavy as the C6.  It would have gotten in the way of my headers, too.  A 400 (unless you spend some serious cash) has some heavy internals as well.  They are much bulkier than a C4, not quite as heavy internally as a C6 but they are not light like a C4 by any means.

IIRC the case to mate with my SBF is expensive.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on August 08, 2013, 09:45:22 am
keeping my Merc 100% Ford.

:yess: :ford2:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on August 08, 2013, 10:36:58 am
My question is what makes a GM trans significantly more expensive?
To the others What makes it a better trans?


TH400 is strong, takes little power to turn. Lots of aftermarket support too. Might weigh less as well, not sure though. Not sure why they would cost more...depends on what goes in to the build though (just like engines). Part of costing more would be all that is required to make it work on a sbf.



IIRC the case to mate with my SBF is expensive.
The JW bell is only like $370... Not that expensive considering the amount spent.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 08, 2013, 10:40:11 am
My question is what makes a GM trans significantly more expensive?
To the others What makes it a better trans?


TH400 is strong, takes little power to turn. Lots of aftermarket support too. Might weigh less as well, not sure though. Not sure why they would cost more...depends on what goes in to the build though (just like engines). Part of costing more would be all that is required to make it work on a sbf.



IIRC the case to mate with my SBF is expensive.
The JW bell is only like $370... Not that expensive considering the amount spent.


Plus an adapter from converter to SBF flywheel.

Joe said it would be $1500 more than the C6 job which would have included modifying the headers.  I am tapped out after this C6.  The C6 can be made VERY tough when I will need it one day, just like the TH400.


And my avatar says "built Ford tough", not "built Ford and Chevy tough" ...       :whistling:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 08, 2013, 02:19:45 pm
The C6 can be made VERY tough when I will need it one day, just like the TH400.

Should be just as tough as the "built"  th400 the way you are doing it with the 4r100 parts. Should be as light internally as well.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 08, 2013, 04:15:34 pm
Yes, I honestly think that I am going to be very happy with the new built C6.  It will have some lower first and second gears, and it is being fitted with a billet 8" 5500rpm (or a couple hundred more but NOT less than 5500rpm) converter.  I will also have an Autometer trans fluid temp gauge to monitor it's fluid temps with the 8" converter.

It should be pretty bad ASS!


 :party                            :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 08, 2013, 05:59:41 pm
why are you putting lower gears in it?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 08, 2013, 06:29:48 pm
why are you putting lower gears in it?


Because they come inside of a stronger steel carrier plus it won't hurt with the heavy Merc and I.      ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on August 08, 2013, 07:14:31 pm
why are you putting lower gears in it?


Because they come inside of a stronger steel carrier plus it won't hurt with the heavy Merc and I.      ;D

Might hurt your wallet...what drag radials are you using again?  I'm going to buy some shares!  ;D

 :Gluck: and enjoy, Robert!



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on August 09, 2013, 10:33:15 am
Do you have to upgrade your transmission cooler since you're going to a bigger trans?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2013, 11:07:10 am
why are you putting lower gears in it?


Because they come inside of a stronger steel carrier plus it won't hurt with the heavy Merc and I.      ;D

Might hurt your wallet...what drag radials are you using again?  I'm going to buy some shares!  ;D

 :Gluck: and enjoy, Robert!




 :thanx:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2013, 12:12:00 pm
Do you have to upgrade your transmission cooler since you're going to a bigger trans?


The C6 might heat up the fluid a bit more compared to the C4 -- but I am hoping that the high stalling 8" converter won't be an issue.

Yet honestly -- the only issue it could pose would be just about MONEY when all is said and done - because if it makes it run too much hotter - then I will have to invest in a second trans fluid cooler and some electric fans, too.



It's just always about MONEY, right?      :P


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 09, 2013, 12:50:53 pm
So you never had a trans temp before?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 09, 2013, 02:15:46 pm
If first and second gear are lower then I would think there would be less heat buildup since there would be less load on the transmission....................all things equal. As in the trans would be doing the same amount of work with more RPM to do it, so less heat.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2013, 03:40:05 pm
So you never had a trans temp before?


Correct.

I have a large external radiator-type trans fluid cooler - plus the trans fluid is also ran thru the bottom section of my engine's coolant radiator.  Even on a real hot day with me repeatedly getting crazy on the gas pedal I didn't ever see a temp past 215* (on my engine coolant gauge), ever.

Joe's son and I disassembled the C4 the other day - there were no signs of an over-heated trans fluid condition on it's internals.

I just thought that this time I will run a trans fluid temp gauge to be better informed - AND especially with a high stalling 8" converter I'm thinking that it's a good idea since I cruise around town at only 3000rpm ...


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on August 09, 2013, 03:40:33 pm
Switching to an 8'' converter alone will add heat.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 09, 2013, 04:27:40 pm
What diameter converter before?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 09, 2013, 04:50:00 pm
How big a cooler?  Plate?  Tube and fin? 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2013, 04:53:14 pm
What diameter converter before?


10"


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2013, 04:55:27 pm
How big a cooler?  Plate?  Tube and fin? 


I don't remember it's size as far as measurements and I want to say tube and fin but maybe it is a plate type ...


 ::)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 09, 2013, 04:57:20 pm

So in theory, smaller diameter converter means more slippage which should mean more heat.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 09, 2013, 05:18:37 pm
How big a cooler?  Plate?  Tube and fin? 


I don't remember it's size as far as measurements and I want to say tube and fin but maybe it is a plate type ...


 ::)
With 8", I wanna have a large plate. And probably think of one of those small 8-10" fans on if for a DD. You can pick then up cheap on ebay.  I think it was like 29 bucks for the one I got.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 09, 2013, 05:24:14 pm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-INCH-ELECTRIC-RADIATOR-TRANSMISSION-OIL-COOLER-FAN-UNIVERSAL-HOT-ROD-/290765225701?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43b2f53ee5&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-INCH-ELECTRIC-RADIATOR-TRANSMISSION-OIL-COOLER-FAN-UNIVERSAL-HOT-ROD-/290765225701?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43b2f53ee5&vxp=mtr) Even cheaper now.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2013, 05:52:50 pm

So in theory, smaller diameter converter means more slippage which should mean more heat.


Yes, less surface area AND less area inside which translates into less fluid yet it is still responsible to transfer power thru to the transmission on thru to the rear wheels.

This makes for higher temperatures.      :)


For me in my situation -- the further away you are cruising from your actual stall speed will also generate more heat -- IOW I will be going with a minimum of 5500rpm stall yet be cruising at 3000rpm.  That is a 2500rpm difference = heat!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2013, 05:53:41 pm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-INCH-ELECTRIC-RADIATOR-TRANSMISSION-OIL-COOLER-FAN-UNIVERSAL-HOT-ROD-/290765225701?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43b2f53ee5&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-INCH-ELECTRIC-RADIATOR-TRANSMISSION-OIL-COOLER-FAN-UNIVERSAL-HOT-ROD-/290765225701?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43b2f53ee5&vxp=mtr) Even cheaper now.


That is a high speed fan?  Great price!    :thanx:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on August 09, 2013, 06:23:16 pm
Why the switch to an 8 inch converter?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 09, 2013, 06:30:40 pm

So in theory, smaller diameter converter means more slippage which should mean more heat.


Yes, less surface area AND less area inside which translates into less fluid yet it is still responsible to transfer power thru to the transmission on thru to the rear wheels.

This makes for higher temperatures.      :)


For me in my situation -- the further away you are cruising from your actual stall speed will also generate more heat -- IOW I will be going with a minimum of 5500rpm stall yet be cruising at 3000rpm.  That is a 2500rpm difference = heat!
Not quite right.  If you're cruising at 3000 and you're input shaft is at 3000, well almost 3000,  - not much slip, not much heat.  It's when you mash the pedal and the engine goes to 5500 and the input shaft is still at 3000 is when the heat happens.

With a temp gauge, you'd see that.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2013, 07:08:37 pm
Why the switch to an 8 inch converter?


Because I want some more efficiency and since I'm spending all of this coin on a heavier trans I want it to be WILD!       :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2013, 07:11:49 pm

So in theory, smaller diameter converter means more slippage which should mean more heat.


Yes, less surface area AND less area inside which translates into less fluid yet it is still responsible to transfer power thru to the transmission on thru to the rear wheels.

This makes for higher temperatures.      :)


For me in my situation -- the further away you are cruising from your actual stall speed will also generate more heat -- IOW I will be going with a minimum of 5500rpm stall yet be cruising at 3000rpm.  That is a 2500rpm difference = heat!
Not quite right.  If you're cruising at 3000 and you're input shaft is at 3000, well almost 3000,  - not much slip, not much heat.  It's when you mash the pedal and the engine goes to 5500 and the input shaft is still at 3000 is when the heat happens.

With a temp gauge, you'd see that.


I will have a temp gauge soon with the new C6, but I'm thinking right now that at 3k rpm the converter will be slipping a darn good amount with a 5500 or more converter.

I will see after I drive it for a while monitoring the temp gauge to relatively see temp changes will cruising at different rpms, WOT blasts, downshift WOT blasts and at idle after all of that FUN!


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on August 09, 2013, 07:34:02 pm

I will have a temp gauge soon with the new C6, but I'm thinking right now that at 3k rpm the converter will be slipping a darn good amount with a 5500 or more converter.


SoonER, bud...gotta protect that investment!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 09, 2013, 08:26:34 pm
Why the switch to an 8 inch converter?


Because I want some more efficiency and since I'm spending all of this coin on a heavier trans I want it to be WILD!       :party


How do you define efficiency in the context of a TC?

In my mind the bigger the TC the more efficient because it wont slip as much due to the added surface area. In your case you went to a less efficient TC by going from ten inches to eight.

The only advantage I see there is less rotating mass.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2013, 09:16:35 pm

I will have a temp gauge soon with the new C6, but I'm thinking right now that at 3k rpm the converter will be slipping a darn good amount with a 5500 or more converter.


SoonER, bud...gotta protect that investment!


The Merc is still in the shop awaiting the C6 being completed and the mods, too.

I won't drive it until everything is done and that includes having the trans temp gauge being installed!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2013, 09:24:44 pm
Why the switch to an 8 inch converter?


Because I want some more efficiency and since I'm spending all of this coin on a heavier trans I want it to be WILD!       :party


How do you define efficiency in the context of a TC?

In my mind the bigger the TC the more efficient because it wont slip as much due to the added surface area. In your case you went to a less efficient TC by going from ten inches to eight.

The only advantage I see there is less rotating mass.


I probably worded it badly earlier - sorry.

True, generally speaking the larger the converter the more efficient it is.

But IMHO in my case with the 5k rpm converter that was 10" and that I was almost always "driving thru it" except for WOT blasts -- I am thinking that the 8" will be more efficient at the top end at WOT.

I just think that after driving the loose as a goose 10" that to achieve such of a high stall with a 10" converter that it was very inefficient by that nature.

It is really just my guessing game that the 8" will slip less at the top end at WOT.  I could be wrong.

After I get to drive it for awhile I think that I will know.      :naughty:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 10, 2013, 08:37:36 am
my understanding is the 8" converter is way more efficient in this type of setup because it can be made tight and still have a high stall speed. the larger say 10" loses efficiency when you loosen it up to get the stall speed up


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on August 10, 2013, 12:45:50 pm
The most efficient torque convertor will be the one that gets the Merc through the 1/8 at Irwindale the quickest.  I think WOT blasts is what Robert is after.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 10, 2013, 05:04:40 pm
my understanding is the 8" converter is way more efficient in this type of setup because it can be made tight and still have a high stall speed. the larger say 10" loses efficiency when you loosen it up to get the stall speed up


You said what I was trying to convey VERY well!


The most efficient torque convertor will be the one that gets the Merc through the 1/8 at Irwindale the quickest.  I think WOT blasts is what Robert is after.


Exactly!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 25, 2013, 01:29:20 pm
any update on trans robert


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 25, 2013, 03:13:23 pm
any update on trans robert


A couple "slow-downs" on part availability - mainly the torque converter (the guy is being too slow!) and the Coan V/B for a C6.

Maybe this coming week, I'm hoping ...      :whistling:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 28, 2013, 08:06:08 pm
Just got the converter today.


8" 5500rpm stall billet piece of AWESOME!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 28, 2013, 08:10:24 pm
The Coan reverse pattern manual V/B is due to come next Wednesday, September the 4th.

I'm thinking that I will have the Merc that week following next Wednesday - like sometime the 2nd week of September!

Someone is "chomping at the bit" being anxious for his Merc ... Joe will be using Coan's competition-style regulator spring in the V/B to have some good and high line pressure, plus he also said that the piston in the C6 is much larger than my old C4 - he said that he will make this C6's shifting hit hard enough to shake the Merc - just like I told him that I LIKE!!!


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 28, 2013, 11:04:39 pm
Robert are u going to take it to the track and see if all the c6 haters are right and your car slows down


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 29, 2013, 04:44:43 am
Next on the to do list.......Eaton Detroit Locker!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: paulzig on August 29, 2013, 06:19:06 am
if we wanted 'efficient' we would drive priuses or put diesels in LOL ...

lets substitute efficient for appropriate ...  f-ck efficient, we just wanna go fast


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 29, 2013, 09:39:27 am
Robert are u going to take it to the track and see if all the c6 haters are right and your car slows down


Once I get some new tires, yep!


Next on the to do list.......Eaton Detroit Locker!


It already has this -->   http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dtl-913a586/overview/make/ford

Here is a description of the unit that is on the Merc -->

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Automotive/AutomotiveAftermarket/Differentials/PCT_338418




if we wanted 'efficient' we would drive priuses or put diesels in LOL ...

lets substitute efficient for appropriate ...  f-ck efficient, we just wanna go fast


Yessir!  Joe promised me that this C6 will perform better than any trans that the Merc and I have EVER owned (it's original FMX, an AOD and the C4) -- he has lightened the C6 internally, made mods to the drums so that it will shift real hard and real fast, increased it's line pressure and also it will have one of the best in the industry valvebodies with a Coan manual one.


 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 29, 2013, 09:52:54 am
I wish I could afford an 8" converter right now!!

408 clevor I worked on a while back the owner swapped a c4 in place of a c6 and went from 10.30's to 9.90's


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Ammosteve on August 29, 2013, 10:06:13 am
I wish I could afford an 8" converter right now!!

408 clevor I worked on a while back the owner swapped a c4 in place of a c6 and went from 10.30's to 9.90's

Are you sure some of that gain wasn't from the convertor?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 29, 2013, 10:12:29 am
I only talked to him for a minute but I think some of the gains are from a transbrake but it was cutting low 1.4's with the c6 footbraking and had around 4800 stall. what amazes me is the car really doesnt feel that fast on the street but it trapped 131 with c6 and 134 with c4. he only shifts at 6500 so the old converter was only tight by maybe 2-300rpm


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 29, 2013, 10:15:10 am
and Im pretty sure its still setup for n2o even though he hasnt sprayed it yet so the new converter is probably in the same range


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Ammosteve on August 29, 2013, 10:23:38 am
I mentioned the convertor because I pulled my C6 out and replaced it with a C4 and the car slowed down...the convertor was a lot tighter than the one for the C6. I'm sure with the right convertor it would have been a tenth or so faster.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 29, 2013, 11:00:31 am
I wish I could afford an 8" converter right now!!

408 clevor I worked on a while back the owner swapped a c4 in place of a c6 and went from 10.30's to 9.90's


I'm betting that his C6 wasn't built with the treatment like mine is getting ...      ;D

Plus, I think that this new 8" converter will be MUCH better than the old way-loosened 10" - I think that will make a good difference in the performance even though the C6 weighs more than the C4 and it's internals are heavier to spin, too ...

 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 29, 2013, 11:24:51 am
I know what carrier you already have.

The Detroit Locker seems the better choice.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 29, 2013, 12:10:29 pm
I know what carrier you already have.

The Detroit Locker seems the better choice.


The one I have doesn't have clutches - it uses the helix gears.  I have hardly any slippage with both rear tires.  Mine works very well.  IOW, anytime I floor the Merc in low gear I always see two black patches on the ground.

I talked with Eaton themselves - in my application (DD, not a pure race car) they said that changing from the one I have to a Locker would be a waste of money because they said that I would not notice any difference except for $600 missing from my bank account.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 29, 2013, 02:23:58 pm
I talked with Eaton themselves - in my application (DD, not a pure race car) they said that changing from the one I have to a Locker would be a waste of money because they said that I would not notice any difference except for $600 missing from my bank account.

How many other things on your car are pure race car?

They clearly don't understand your driving habits.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 29, 2013, 04:02:31 pm
I talked with Eaton themselves - in my application (DD, not a pure race car) they said that changing from the one I have to a Locker would be a waste of money because they said that I would not notice any difference except for $600 missing from my bank account.

How many other things on your car are pure race car?

They clearly don't understand your driving habits.


My point is that my Merc has seen the race track one time!

I am not building a race car -- it is my DD.  I am not racing my DD.  I will mess around VERY occasionally at the track but that is all.

Yes it has some parts in it that are not what 99% of people put in their DD but I am different -- I want a daily driven (DD) car that is fast (compared to other street cars) that I can enjoy at least 2 times a day.





The Locker would only make a difference if I was running slicks -- which I don't.  Get it?    



  ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 29, 2013, 04:40:44 pm
You also thought I was wrong about you using a c6 w/ 4r100 parts.....

Have you ever driven a detroit locker? I have. My van has one. If you had driven one, you would know that it makes a big difference even without slicks. I use Les Schwab's Toyo "open country all terrain" tires and it makes a huge difference in the way it drives.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 29, 2013, 04:44:51 pm
Id just rock a spool in there  :hmmmm:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 29, 2013, 04:52:29 pm
You also thought I was wrong about you using a c6 w/ 4r100 parts.....

Have you ever driven a detroit locker? I have. My van has one. If you had driven one, you would know that it makes a big difference even without slicks. I use Les Schwab's Toyo "open country all terrain" tires and it makes a huge difference in the way it drives.


Have you ever driven with what I have?  What did you upgrade to a Locker from?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 29, 2013, 04:52:56 pm
Id just rock a spool in there  :hmmmm:


A DD street car?      :whistling:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 29, 2013, 04:53:40 pm
hells yeah


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 29, 2013, 04:54:12 pm
hells yeah


Cornering, uh, uh.  My darn tires don't last as it is ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on August 29, 2013, 04:54:19 pm
I hope he likes the C6 and it performs up to his expectations. I just hope a slower car is part of those expectations.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 29, 2013, 04:56:24 pm
I hope he likes the C6 and it performs up to his expectations. I just hope a slower car is part of those expectations.


With the different gearing, much better converter and 4r100 internals it might be the same speed ... yet shift much harder which could make me feel that it is even faster.


 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 29, 2013, 05:34:01 pm
Let's hope you don't start breaking more parts with that harder shifting   :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 29, 2013, 08:05:44 pm
I think the lower gearing is kind of a negative for you. its going to hit the tires harder on launch and then shift recovery is going to suffer. perhaps the converter will be loose enough that you'll be ok. alot of high end th400's use a 2.20 first gear to soften the launch and help shift recovery

I would definately expect it to slow down


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 29, 2013, 09:09:37 pm
add nitrous and start out in second


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 29, 2013, 09:11:08 pm
I hope he likes the C6 and it performs up to his expectations. I just hope a slower car is part of those expectations.



I would definately expect it to slow down


Well, well -- thanks for your opinions, people!!!  LMAO!      ;D

I haven't driven the Merc in 6 weeks and it looks like it will be 2 more fucking weeks.  So it will be 8 weeks since I have driven the Merc, 8 fucking weeks of riding the fucking bus, AGAIN!

So honestly -- I am "adult" enough to in my head "pretend" that it's faster because of the hard hitting trans and the better and higher stalling converter to make it feel in my head to be "faster" (or at LEAST more FUN to drive) -- until I can hopefully one fucking day get my hands on some REAL money instead of the fucking chump-change that I have been scraping together as of late ... maybe one day this good ol' Merc and I will have a LARGE turbo or two ... street driven DD!


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on August 30, 2013, 12:58:25 am
Why's the car been down for so long Robert? Did the trans die ? if not why put the car out of service until you had all the parts to do the swap?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2013, 09:25:00 am
Why's the car been down for so long Robert? Did the trans die ? if not why put the car out of service until you had all the parts to do the swap?


I take it that you haven't been reading my thread much, huh?


You are working now?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2013, 09:26:19 am
I think the lower gearing is kind of a negative for you. its going to hit the tires harder on launch and then shift recovery is going to suffer. perhaps the converter will be loose enough that you'll be ok.


The Merc is real heavy yet makes some decent power.  The new converter should make up the differences.  I will probably have to relearn how to launch from a stop ...     


 http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/drivetrain/mdmp_1203_ford_c6_transmission_upgrades/photo_15.html


   :thanx:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on August 30, 2013, 11:03:10 am
Why's the car been down for so long Robert? Did the trans die ? if not why put the car out of service until you had all the parts to do the swap?


I take it that you haven't been reading my thread much, huh?


You are working now?
Ive been following it, but not closely enough I guess. I thought you were just going to a c6, didnt know anything else was hurt.
Yea


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on August 30, 2013, 12:23:23 pm
You'll be just fine Robert.  I'm sure it'll be nice to have a transmission you shouldn't have to worry about.  :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on August 30, 2013, 12:31:30 pm
You'll be just fine Robert.  I'm sure it'll be nice to have a transmission you shouldn't have to worry about.  :burnout

I agree.  It's not like you're in a points series and you're trying to eke every last hundredth out of it. 

It's no fun if it's out of commission, leaving you with a daily bus ride.  Make it as fast and reliable as your budget allows and enjoy the shit out of it! 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 30, 2013, 02:08:14 pm
Ive been following it, but not closely enough I guess. I thought you were just going to a c6, didnt know anything else was hurt.

I was wondering the same thing...what exactly happened to the c4?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 30, 2013, 02:15:20 pm
Have you ever driven with what I have?  What did you upgrade to a Locker from?

Yes I have and the locker is a completely different animal as far as I am concerned.

BUT, lets say it makes no difference. You put it on and you don't notice a thing. You will, but lets pretend you don't notice anything at all. You will still have a much stronger differential. The detroit locker is much stronger than the tru trac so it is much better in that regard alone. If you like your car to be mean, aggressive, hard shifting and all this kind of stuff like you have been saying then I say the locker is for you as the locker is hands down the strongest out there....the most aggressive too (spool aside).


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 30, 2013, 02:32:22 pm
What about the wavelock I thought it was the strongest.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2013, 04:43:49 pm
Ive been following it, but not closely enough I guess. I thought you were just going to a c6, didnt know anything else was hurt.

I was wondering the same thing...what exactly happened to the c4?


The front ring gear assembly broke in half, literally -- the splined part on top of it broke clean away from the shell itself.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2013, 04:44:52 pm
You'll be just fine Robert.  I'm sure it'll be nice to have a transmission you shouldn't have to worry about.  :burnout


That is what I am shooting for.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2013, 04:48:15 pm
You'll be just fine Robert.  I'm sure it'll be nice to have a transmission you shouldn't have to worry about.  :burnout

I agree.  It's not like you're in a points series and you're trying to eke every last hundredth out of it. 

It's no fun if it's out of commission, leaving you with a daily bus ride.  Make it as fast and reliable as your budget allows and enjoy the shit out of it! 


That is IT, my friend.  You know it!      :rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2013, 04:49:10 pm
Have you ever driven with what I have?  What did you upgrade to a Locker from?

Yes I have and the locker is a completely different animal as far as I am concerned.

BUT, lets say it makes no difference. You put it on and you don't notice a thing. You will, but lets pretend you don't notice anything at all. You will still have a much stronger differential. The detroit locker is much stronger than the tru trac so it is much better in that regard alone. If you like your car to be mean, aggressive, hard shifting and all this kind of stuff like you have been saying then I say the locker is for you as the locker is hands down the strongest out there....the most aggressive too (spool aside).


I promise that when this current Detroit differential assembly that I have breaks that I WILL buy a Locker.     :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on August 30, 2013, 09:38:55 pm
Ive been following it, but not closely enough I guess. I thought you were just going to a c6, didnt know anything else was hurt.

I was wondering the same thing...what exactly happened to the c4?


The front ring gear assembly broke in half, literally -- the splined part on top of it broke clean away from the shell itself.

I missed what happened too for all its worth.. I went a while without checking this thread I had quite a few pages to read.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 02, 2013, 01:07:57 pm
robert what shifter are you going to use


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 02, 2013, 07:57:44 pm
robert what shifter are you going to use


The same one as with the C4.

I have this one -->   http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bmm-80842/overview/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bmm-80842/overview/)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 03, 2013, 08:48:51 am
I have a solid roller that would be right at home in there lol


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on September 03, 2013, 09:04:14 am
C6 trany issues they will slow you down as to why. Had a Engineer I worked with at Ford Engine.
He went from a built C4 to a Built powerglide he gained a bit he then went to a C6 and gained a lot.
The C6 mod he had done that got him like 4 tents over the PG was having the C6 fully rollerized instead of the sleeve brgs.

Detroit locker much better choice, one of my DDs had 650+ RWHP 4 speed 9000 RPM shift points 9.36 1/4 mile never came close to damaging it. Also could pre lock it before a launch you could feel it lock.
Cornering wit ha locker on the street. Most of the top runners in SCCA and other open track cars run Detroit lockers. The guys running True tracks burn up a few units a year.

Hard hitting auto tranys often tear up stuff a lot quicker than a manual trany because it shocks lots of the drive train parts at even low speed shifts. Mine will even jerk my head when it shifts from 1 to second 20 to 30 MPH not even on it. This has help to cause me dammage to yokes ujoints and such over time just crusing. If I drove it hard all the time all kinds of stuff could break. Been there done that and its expensive and rather drive the car than ride a bus. Learned to drive fast without dammaging stuff







Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 03, 2013, 04:03:41 pm
^^^ lol your converter is too tight!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 04, 2013, 09:18:44 pm
I am also having a pro make me a new driveshaft complete with his decision on better u-joints to complete the Merc, it's new trans/converter and my FUN driving style.

This arrived from Coan Racing this afternoon.  Joe said the trans will be completely built this Friday -- so here's HOPING that the Merc will be ready next week sometime.  We just talked over the phone -- when he puts the fluid in -- he will give me a ring so I will be the one who fires it all up ...


Do you all think that someone is REAL excited?!?!    :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 04, 2013, 10:21:09 pm
robert are you doing any of rollerized stuff . http://www.broaderperformance.com/ does some they sell the parts  taking mine to them since they are close


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 04, 2013, 10:30:17 pm
robert are you doing any of rollerized stuff .


Yes except for one part Joe said for my ride it's best to leave it as a thrust washer instead of changing that part for longevity, he said.  I can't remember which thrust washer he isn't changing.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 04, 2013, 10:35:01 pm
Yea broader doesn't do them all. I no #9 is the most important.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 05, 2013, 04:04:46 am
That's the same pan and dipstick I have. The mounting tab didn't line up with the bellhousing bolt. I 3/8 thick spacer had to be used between the mounting tab and the bellhousing to prevent distorting the dipstick tube.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 05, 2013, 09:49:35 am
Thanks guys.      :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 06, 2013, 08:19:06 pm
Ya get it yet


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 06, 2013, 11:19:48 pm
Ya get it yet


Trans is together complete, now.

Now he will stab it Monday -- so the next fun will begin.

Like = cross-member and mount, flywheel, starter mod to new flywheel, Autometer trans fluid temp sender/wiring/gauge install, new driveshaft and u-joints and yoke install & fitment mods where necessary.  Did I leave anything out?      :whistling:

I am to call him Wednesday afternoon for an update.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on September 10, 2013, 05:26:21 pm
Robert I saw a couple pics recently that reminded me of you.   ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on September 10, 2013, 05:43:07 pm
Robert I saw a couple pics recently that reminded me of you.   ;D

 :spit:

I saw a C.Y. Special (or clone) just the other day.  Very cool cars.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 10, 2013, 06:12:59 pm
Robert I saw a couple pics recently that reminded me of you.   ;D


According to that top pic of the red Mustang I am not the ONLY one who has gone the easy and inexpensive route to upgrading to bigger better gripping tires!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 10, 2013, 07:12:06 pm
there are 315's on my mustang without butchering it.... That red vert is just saddddddd


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on September 10, 2013, 07:56:53 pm
That red vert is just saddddddd

Fox body GT verts were pretty sad creatures to begin with, especially autos.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 10, 2013, 09:43:44 pm
there are 315's on my mustang without butchering it.... That red vert is just saddddddd


Not 30" 315's ... my Merc looks much better than that!      :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on September 10, 2013, 10:19:02 pm

Fox body GT verts were pretty sad creatures to begin with

Now that just plain hurts man... :'(


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on September 10, 2013, 10:35:46 pm

Fox body GT verts were pretty sad creatures to begin with

Now that just plain hurts man... :'(

More so the aero cars, its hard not to like a nice 4 eye car. Vert or not.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on September 10, 2013, 11:05:51 pm

Fox body GT verts were pretty sad creatures to begin with

Now that just plain hurts man... :'(

More so the aero cars, its hard not to like a nice 4 eye car. Vert or not.

Just bustin your balls Rocky...;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 11, 2013, 10:50:31 am
there are 315's on my mustang without butchering it.... That red vert is just saddddddd


Not 30" 315's ... my Merc looks much better than that!      :)
mine are 30'' M/T's


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 11, 2013, 11:06:54 am
there are 315's on my mustang without butchering it.... That red vert is just saddddddd


Not 30" 315's ... my Merc looks much better than that!      :)
mine are 30'' M/T's


Really?  I am surprised, but OK.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on September 11, 2013, 12:26:48 pm
Fox body GT verts were pretty sad creatures to begin with, especially autos.

You obviously never saw the Vanilla Ice video "Ice ice baby".   :347ho:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on September 11, 2013, 12:29:57 pm
Really?  I am surprised, but OK.

I doubt they are stock wheel wells and rear end Robert.  ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on September 11, 2013, 12:44:20 pm
Fox body GT verts were pretty sad creatures to begin with, especially autos.

You obviously never saw the Vanilla Ice video "Ice ice baby".   :347ho:
:pimp


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 11, 2013, 01:41:59 pm
Really?  I am surprised, but OK.

I doubt they are stock wheel wells and rear end Robert.  ;)


Yeah, thanks Nate.

Maybe Tim "forgot" to talk about the work on his ride's rear end ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 11, 2013, 03:54:39 pm
Rear end is a 9'', that shouldnt matter when I was commenting about the wheel well opening being butchered so bad. It is also mini tubbed, but that does nothing to the opening.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 11, 2013, 04:34:35 pm
Rear end is a 9'', that shouldnt matter when I was commenting about the wheel well opening being butchered so bad. It is also mini tubbed, but that does nothing to the opening.


If I would have $tubbed$ my Merc I would not have touched it's wheel wells with a chop saw ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 11, 2013, 04:57:37 pm
Depending on wheel offset, the outside doesnt have much to do with the inside.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 11, 2013, 08:44:36 pm
 Trans update


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 11, 2013, 11:16:44 pm
Trans update


Have a few issues --

1.  The deep pan is wider than the trans and having clearance issues with the Accufab headers which for some reason (?!?!) are angled inward towards the driveshaft right after the location where the four primary pipes join into forming the top part of the collector.  So the headers are going to have to be modified by one of Joe's friend who owns a muffler shop.

2.  Need a different starter with the new flywheel that will work with the C6 and it's SBF bellhousing.

3.  The Lokar tube and stick won't "work" with my heads, fitment issues.  Am having to order a Milodon "flexible" one instead.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 12, 2013, 06:22:59 am
That was one of the problems I had with my accufabs headers also. We had to heat header tubes glowing red then take a long pipe that fit in the collector and bend. We clamped them to a bench that was bolted down. Good luck. Hope to see you get it going


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 12, 2013, 08:07:10 am
That was one of the problems I had with my accufabs headers also. We had to heat header tubes glowing red then take a long pipe that fit in the collector and bend. We clamped them to a bench that was bolted down. Good luck. Hope to see you get it going

BTDT


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 13, 2013, 04:20:59 am
3.  The Lokar tube and stick won't "work" with my heads, fitment issues.  Am having to order a Milodon "flexible" one instead.

Had a flexible trans dipstick......LEAKS! Once it is bent into position to clear everything there is a bit of tension on the whole assembly. This tension put a load on the part where the dipstick tube enters the transmission which prevents a good seal and will eventually leak. Mine did anyways. Switched to the solid tubular dipstick tube that puts no tension on anything and I have been leak free. It didn't "work" with my heads either, but a spacer made it work.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 13, 2013, 09:47:10 am
3.  The Lokar tube and stick won't "work" with my heads, fitment issues.  Am having to order a Milodon "flexible" one instead.

Had a flexible trans dipstick......LEAKS! Once it is bent into position to clear everything there is a bit of tension on the whole assembly. This tension put a load on the part where the dipstick tube enters the transmission which prevents a good seal and will eventually leak. Mine did anyways. Switched to the solid tubular dipstick tube that puts no tension on anything and I have been leak free. It didn't "work" with my heads either, but a spacer made it work.


A pic of that tube's spacer's location or an explanation of where you put the spacer to clear your heads would be AWESOME!


What about using some of that E6000 glue around the area where the tube goes into the trans?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 13, 2013, 11:33:09 am
Robert the factory dip stick tube worked on mine. It bolted to the bell housing.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 13, 2013, 01:04:12 pm
Robert the factory dip stick tube worked on mine. It bolted to the bell housing.


I will talk with Joe about that -- he tried a Lokar click-locking type and it would not fit past the TFS TW 205cc heads that I have.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 13, 2013, 01:31:04 pm
I think I got my Trans out of a1978 montego but can't remember to sure. It was in the 80s. I have high port heads


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 13, 2013, 02:16:39 pm
A pic of that tube's spacer's location or an explanation of where you put the spacer to clear your heads would be AWESOME!


What about using some of that E6000 glue around the area where the tube goes into the trans?

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/grenaldo_87/sbf11.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/grenaldo_87/media/sbf11.jpg.html)

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/grenaldo_87/sbf13.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/grenaldo_87/media/sbf13.jpg.html)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 13, 2013, 02:19:19 pm
Note the 3/8 thick spacer between the mounting tab and the bellhousing. Trying to put the mounting tab on the bellhousing with no spacer would distort everything and would side-load the tube and cause a leak at the trans to dipstick tube seal. I replaced the factory bell housing bolt with an ARP stud that way I didn't have to play with the bolt length or anything.

E6000 to seal? Bad idea in my opinion.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 13, 2013, 05:47:32 pm
I think I got my Trans out of a1978 montego but can't remember to sure. It was in the 80s. I have high port heads


Mine is out of a 1977 truck.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 13, 2013, 05:50:00 pm
Robert the factory dip stick tube worked on mine. It bolted to the bell housing.


I will talk with Joe about that -- he tried a Lokar click-locking type and it would not fit past the TFS TW 205cc heads that I have.
Lokar Flex tube? wheres it hanging up with the head?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 13, 2013, 11:29:49 pm
Robert the factory dip stick tube worked on mine. It bolted to the bell housing.


I will talk with Joe about that -- he tried a Lokar click-locking type and it would not fit past the TFS TW 205cc heads that I have.
Lokar Flex tube? wheres it hanging up with the head?


I am not sure.  I spoke with him at his shop this afternoon.  I told him about the flexible ones leaking.   I mentioned to him about an OEM C6 tube.  He asked which vehicle/year?  They are all different.  He showed me another one from a truck IIRC - it is not a flexible one.  Looked good - he said that after he gets the Merc back from the muffler shop that he will find a tube that will work and won't leak.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 18, 2013, 01:11:50 pm
Any luck Robert


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 18, 2013, 01:18:03 pm
Robert u might get on 429 460 forum and ask what they are using. Lots of guys using c6 Trans on that sight


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 18, 2013, 03:00:20 pm
Robert u might get on 429 460 forum and ask what they are using. Lots of guys using c6 Trans on that sight


Thanks.   This one (?) -->   http://www.460ford.com/forum/ (http://www.460ford.com/forum/)


Any luck Robert


Headers and mufflers have been modified so that now the C6 fits good.

Got a block plate that will enable me to re-use the starter that it used to have.  Have the new flywheel installed, too.

IIRC a new shift cable bracket was made yesterday by Joe's son, Mike.


Very soon now ...       :ahprepare:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 18, 2013, 03:17:19 pm
No but alot of same guys on there. www.429-460.com


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 18, 2013, 04:24:00 pm
did you find a dipstick tube? mine didnt fit I just bent the pos  :dunno


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 18, 2013, 04:32:44 pm
Headers and mufflers have been modified so that now the C6 fits good.

Got a block plate that will enable me to re-use the starter that it used to have.  Have the new flywheel installed, too.

IIRC a new shift cable bracket was made yesterday by Joe's son, Mike.

Merc, are you being serious? You have got to be kidding, lying, crazy or all three.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 18, 2013, 11:03:05 pm
Headers and mufflers have been modified so that now the C6 fits good.

Got a block plate that will enable me to re-use the starter that it used to have.  Have the new flywheel installed, too.

IIRC a new shift cable bracket was made yesterday by Joe's son, Mike.

Merc, are you being serious? You have got to be kidding, lying, crazy or all three.


 :question:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 18, 2013, 11:06:03 pm
did you find a dipstick tube? mine didnt fit I just bent the pos  :dunno


Tried another OEM -- didn't work.

Joe wondered what sort of head this is -- mentioned how it sticks 3/8" to 1/2" past the rear of the engine which he says is getting in the way of the tubes.

Here's hoping that the flexible Milodon one comes in tomorrow and will work without leaking ...

The new driveshaft didn't come in today ...      :P


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: garsten on September 18, 2013, 11:08:35 pm
you mistyped...flywheel  when you meant flexplate.

claude


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 18, 2013, 11:14:31 pm
 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 19, 2013, 07:32:35 am
I would heat all four primaries and bend the collector over with a huge pry stick. then replace a portion of the exhaust. BTDT


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on September 19, 2013, 07:51:45 am
A vacuum modulator?? You?   :orglaugh


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 19, 2013, 09:11:17 am
Robert welcome to the world of accufab headers and a c6. Those are a lot closer than mine were. Mine wouldn't even fit on the engine with Trans   We heated and bent them while bolted to a bench


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 19, 2013, 09:18:27 am
A vacuum modulator?? You?   :orglaugh


I asked him that, too.  He said that without the dummy modulator there is a hole that gets left open and he said that is a "no, no".  I am always manual V/B, you know me.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 19, 2013, 09:20:10 am
you mistyped...flywheel  when you meant flexplate.

claude


Even though we all know that they are similar but different -- we just call them all "flywheels".

Ever heard someone say that they have 600 horsepower at the "flexplate"?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: mxracer652 on September 19, 2013, 09:23:23 am
Crazy idea:  Make a dipstick tube that fits? 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 19, 2013, 09:23:48 am
The exhaust has been modified to allow full installation of the trans.      :clap


As of now only waiting for the Milodon flexible tube and stick, a ball and spring type connector-end that will go on the trans shift lever (because the bellhousing is wider than we thought in the beginning so routing the shift cable has been a PITA) and the new driveshaft.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 24, 2013, 12:47:08 pm
Joe and his son modified a solid tube so that it is now secured on the bellhousing.

He called me and told me that the Merc is ready for pick-up.  I am leaving work an hour early to get it.


Someone is REAL excited!!!


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 24, 2013, 01:03:27 pm
Great. Robert glad to see it ready


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 24, 2013, 04:38:50 pm
bring it by here


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 24, 2013, 05:05:19 pm
bring it by here


After I clean it up some I will.  To your job, right?  It has been sitting outside in a fenced area but it is FILTHY!      ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on September 24, 2013, 07:48:57 pm
Congratulations Robert!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Red5.0 on September 24, 2013, 10:09:32 pm
What are your impressions Robert?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 24, 2013, 10:45:26 pm
How is it working Robert ?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on September 24, 2013, 10:46:51 pm
Hopefully he's still playing and didn't break then next weak link.   :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 24, 2013, 11:38:25 pm
I am VERY happy with it's performance.

I enjoy the 2.71 and 1.53 first and second gear ratios.  The car launches much better -- plus the converter is FANTASTIC.

The trans is very good, too.  No leaks!      ;D

It shifts quick when it's at WOT or even with partial gas pedal.

To me it seems to accelerate faster.  Hard to tell until I take it to the track but that won't be for a while because I don't want to keep being so selfish to my family.  This new trans set us back a good amount and the tires are bald.

Honestly since the Merc is my DD I am very happy with it.  To me it seems faster -- it is definitely a lot more fun to drive with the different gearing and the better converter.

Trip out on this -- Joe said that the converter is actually half and half -- to be more efficient yet be able to stall at 5500rpm like I requested.  One half is an 8" converter while the other half is a 9".  Sorry I forgot which half is 8" and which is the 9"?  I turned a corner going like 3mph, kept it in 3rd gear and floored it -- it showed me a honest 5500rpm and that is badass.

I am very happy, thanks to all.


 :ban


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 24, 2013, 11:55:59 pm
 :ban


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 25, 2013, 02:16:23 pm
Hey merc, you claim better scceleration.....so what do you say to those guys like "outlawbill" and "jayh"  and others that say you will be definetly be slower?

"jayh" also says the 4r100 gearing will hurt?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 25, 2013, 03:45:29 pm
Hey merc, you claim better scceleration.....so what do you say to those guys like "outlawbill" and "jayh"  and others that say you will be definetly be slower?


Don't get me wrong.  I know that this trans is heavier externally and internally.  And no I have not raced it at the track, yet.  I haven't driven my car in 2 months.  The 4r100 internals, the better C6 trans (surface area internally), the better converter all add up to a more enjoyable driving experience.  The new converter lifts the front-end suspension more.  It is obvious that it is MEANT for the 408W!

It seems to handle better when I get on it hard.  I am very happy.  Even if the ET at the track is a bit higher or if the MPH is a little bit slower I DON'T CARE because it is my DD -- I can't afford a race-car, for now.  It is more fun for me to drive on the street after the change to Joe and Mike's built C6 so I am happier.  And it won't be breaking ... so if one day if I can ever afford a "race car" I will be putting a large turbo on a Woody-built Dart blocked SBF and I will drive it every day to work and back!

"jayh" also says the 4r100 gearing will hurt?


Jayh said that he thought that the 4r100 wide ratio gears might hurt but he did mention that with the new converter it might not.  With the heavy Merc -- those gears are actually helping in acceleration quite a bit.  The new converter is helping, too.



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 25, 2013, 10:14:47 pm
My car got faster when I went to a c6. I started putting money into other parts of the car instead of rebuilding that c4 all the time.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 25, 2013, 11:47:58 pm
My car got faster when I went to a c6. I started putting money into other parts of the car instead of rebuilding that c4 all the time.


Me, too.     :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on September 26, 2013, 01:22:05 am
Hey merc, you claim better scceleration.....so what do you say to those guys like "outlawbill" and "jayh"  and others that say you will be definetly be slower?

"jayh" also says the 4r100 gearing will hurt?

I say take it to the track before you start thumping your chests.   ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Rotax on September 26, 2013, 07:43:53 am
Do you feel like you can pick on "Farmtruck" ?!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on September 26, 2013, 08:51:27 am
My car got faster when I went to a c6. I started putting money into other parts of the car instead of rebuilding that c4 all the time.


Me, too.     :)

And that's what it's all about, especially for your DD.  It's hard to enjoy a car that's on the lift more often than road.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 26, 2013, 09:46:17 am
Hey merc, you claim better scceleration.....so what do you say to those guys like "outlawbill" and "jayh"  and others that say you will be definetly be slower?

"jayh" also says the 4r100 gearing will hurt?
pros and cons to everything if you dont understand then...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 26, 2013, 10:37:22 am
pros and cons to everything if you dont understand then...

If you feel there is something I am not understanding then please explain...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 26, 2013, 10:40:32 am
theres a shit ton you dont understand  :msorry:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 26, 2013, 10:58:46 am
Do you feel like you can pick on "Farmtruck" ?!
FarmTruck is at least a very low 10 sec truck, most likely quicker.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 26, 2013, 11:45:04 am
theres a shit ton you dont understand  :msorry:

Start talking


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 26, 2013, 03:19:45 pm
Do you feel like you can pick on "Farmtruck" ?!
FarmTruck is at least a very low 10 sec truck, most likely quicker.


In the Merc's present state -- no it can't touch a 10 second ride ...      :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on September 26, 2013, 05:00:28 pm
He never optimized the car for the drag strip, so to say it will be faster than the C4 is misleading. I have never seen a C6 quicker than a C4, but that's me. If he likes the car, its all that matters.  Its also possible he needs the indestructability of the C6 more than quick ET's.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Rotax on September 26, 2013, 05:15:06 pm
Just asking, wouldn't a built AOD be more desirable?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 26, 2013, 06:34:41 pm
Just asking, wouldn't a built AOD be more desirable?


No because the OD bands never lasted for me ... and this will be my last trans -- a properly built C6 will handle more power reliably than an AOD.

I am hoping for four digits of large single turbo power one day ... I'm not worried about some spooling delay because my 408W has TOO much low-end torque for any tire besides a slick ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 26, 2013, 06:35:24 pm
He never optimized the car for the drag strip, so to say it will be faster than the C4 is misleading. I have never seen a C6 quicker than a C4, but that's me. If he likes the car, its all that matters.  Its also possible he needs the indestructability of the C6 more than quick ET's.


Yessir!      :rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 27, 2013, 01:38:16 pm
With this new converter -- I can foot-brake to 4000rpm ... that is with an OEM brake system -- disc up front and drum in back ...


 ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 30, 2013, 09:23:36 am
Robert be sure to run the largest cooler you can find. It will help it live on the street. How's it been working


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 30, 2013, 11:46:10 am
Robert be sure to run the largest cooler you can find. It will help it live on the street. How's it been working


It has a large cooler and also we are running it thru the engine's radiator, too.

It has been working flawlessly.  I am very happy with it.  The more I drive it the more that I believe that it is faster.  I'm thinking that Joe and Mike did their magic with the C6's internals in switching them out for the latest performance parts that helped reduce frictional drag.

Also the Merc just loves the wide-ratio gear set.  The are all steel and the gears themselves are straighter than normal gears -- they sound cool like a race car with straight gears in 1st and 2nd and they help with the Merc's acceleration ...      :)

And this new converter is much more efficient than that loosey-goosey 10" that the Merc used to have I'm guessing also.  Even though the most of a shift drop I've seen is 500 rpm ...

 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 30, 2013, 12:42:19 pm
On a side note -- here is the "fun" part of my weekend part-time second job (I work a full-time job as a warehouse Supervisor) -- cleaning of the jumpers ... here are five of them that need to be cleaned!

This is a big reason as to why I don't have much "free-time" ...     :whistling:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on September 30, 2013, 01:13:31 pm
How's cleaning something fun??  :whistling:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 30, 2013, 02:20:56 pm
How's cleaning something fun??  :whistling:


I failed Sarcasm 101 in college ...      :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on September 30, 2013, 04:31:06 pm
Ahh... now rereading it, I get it.  :duh


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on September 30, 2013, 08:04:37 pm
And this new converter is much more efficient than that loosey-goosey 10" that the Merc used to have I'm guessing also.  Even though the most of a shift drop I've seen is 500 rpm ...

 :burnout

I believe this is the difference maker.  :thumb:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: wywindsor on September 30, 2013, 09:21:46 pm
Better ck. again on the aod. They will handle a lot more hp than you have and hold up fine.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 30, 2013, 11:05:25 pm
Better ck. again on the aod. They will handle a lot more hp than you have and hold up fine.

I believe he used to have an aod and no it did not hold up fine.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 01, 2013, 09:53:23 am
Better ck. again on the aod. They will handle a lot more hp than you have and hold up fine.

I believe he used to have an aod and no it did not hold up fine.


You are correct.  The OD bands are the weak link.  You have to baby them into and out of OD or it will not last.  Been there, done that.  I am very happy with my C6.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 01, 2013, 09:56:27 am
And this new converter is much more efficient than that loosey-goosey 10" that the Merc used to have I'm guessing also.  Even though the most of a shift drop I've seen is 500 rpm ...

 :burnout

I believe this is the difference maker.  :thumb:


Yes Nate, this new converter is more efficient I'm sure.  I noticed that the Merc accelerates faster getting up to speed at light pedal than the other converter -- which tells me that the other one was just way too "loose".

I have tested this new converter by going like 2 mph and then flooring the gas pedal in 3rd gear -- it "slow rolling stalled" at 5500 rpm.

 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 01, 2013, 10:01:04 am
So basically what you are saying is that the loose, high stalling converter that you always hyped up wasnt really that great after all?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 01, 2013, 10:09:00 am
So basically what you are saying is that the loose, high stalling converter that you always hyped up wasnt really that great after all?


Yes, it was too loose.  I've learned to like high stalling converters -- but not too loose ...      ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Rotax on October 01, 2013, 10:14:01 am
Juste saying we have a twin turbo 363 car locally running high 7's with a built AOD.  Of course OD doesn't like to be shifted @wot... Don't know if the AOD is any lighter than a C6.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 01, 2013, 10:46:56 am
So basically what you are saying is that the loose, high stalling converter that you always hyped up wasnt really that great after all?

dont get it twisted he likes the high flash hes just enjoying the efficiency of a smaller converter now


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 01, 2013, 10:52:39 am
Juste saying we have a twin turbo 363 car locally running high 7's with a built AOD.  Of course OD doesn't like to be shifted @wot... Don't know if the AOD is any lighter than a C6.


An AOD is 10# heavier than an OEM C6, my C6 has been lightened more than a stock one ... and I'll wager that your twin turbo 7 second car doesn't weigh what me and the Merc weigh -- weight makes a BIG difference in trans reliability ...

 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 01, 2013, 02:11:55 pm
Juste saying we have a twin turbo 363 car locally running high 7's with a built AOD.  Of course OD doesn't like to be shifted @wot... Don't know if the AOD is any lighter than a C6.

Compare what has to be spent to get a strong AOD vs what has to be spent on the strong C6.

$6000 plus (assuming Lentech or similar) for the AOD and half that or less on the C6.



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 01, 2013, 05:51:11 pm
Juste saying we have a twin turbo 363 car locally running high 7's with a built AOD.  Of course OD doesn't like to be shifted @wot... Don't know if the AOD is any lighter than a C6.

Compare what has to be spent to get a strong AOD vs what has to be spent on the strong C6.

$6000 plus (assuming Lentech or similar) for the AOD and half that or less on the C6.


I had less then $3000 into an AOD that would handle well over 1000 HP. I will venture to say bunch less then $2000.
Cut case, JW bell, Custom non lock converter, Lentech valve body, 4r70 gear set ect ect ect


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 01, 2013, 06:33:23 pm
Juste saying we have a twin turbo 363 car locally running high 7's with a built AOD.  Of course OD doesn't like to be shifted @wot... Don't know if the AOD is any lighter than a C6.

Compare what has to be spent to get a strong AOD vs what has to be spent on the strong C6.

$6000 plus (assuming Lentech or similar) for the AOD and half that or less on the C6.


I had less then $3000 into an AOD that would handle well over 1000 HP. I will venture to say bunch less then $2000.
Cut case, JW bell, Custom non lock converter, Lentech valve body, 4r70 gear set ect ect ect


"Well over 1000 HP"?  Dude!

When we are talking about horsepower capabilities -- we must all remember that a race weight ride of 3200# horsepower rating gets reduced if you add another 600 or 800# to the load.

Just sayin'.      ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 01, 2013, 07:09:35 pm
I had less then $3000 into an AOD that would handle well over 1000 HP. I will venture to say bunch less then $2000.
Cut case, JW bell, Custom non lock converter, Lentech valve body, 4r70 gear set ect ect ect

I sure as heck couldnt find a good transmission builder to do that...I shopped around a bit too. Almost pulled the trigger on a Lentech (about 6K), but backed out and went C6.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 01, 2013, 07:13:26 pm
I sure as heck couldnt find a good transmission builder to do that...I shopped around a bit too. Almost pulled the trigger on a Lentech (about 6K), but backed out and went C6.

I'm pretty sure Tim built it himself.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 01, 2013, 08:11:26 pm
I was under the impression at one point these were about $2200 for the whole swap package
http://www.fbperformance.com/ViewTransmission/?TransmissionID=40


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 01, 2013, 09:12:23 pm
I was under the impression at one point these were about $2200 for the whole swap package
http://www.fbperformance.com/ViewTransmission/?TransmissionID=40


Notice how in their "application" guide they say for "limited street use" ...      :whistling:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on October 01, 2013, 09:24:23 pm
I was under the impression at one point these were about $2200 for the whole swap package
http://www.fbperformance.com/ViewTransmission/?TransmissionID=40

Went thru their racer gallery section.  I can tell you that the 2 Vettes owned by Paul Z. (pg 5), and Paul Major (pg 6) are VERY quick cars.  I've seen them numerous times over the past 5+ years in the Corvette Challenge Quick-8 and index classes. 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 01, 2013, 10:14:21 pm
I just noticed that gassing it slowly and shifting at 3k rpm there is an 800 rpm shift drop between 1st and 2nd gear.

Wide ratio gear set is 2.73, 1.54 and 1.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 01, 2013, 10:47:59 pm
I just noticed that gassing it slowly and shifting at 3k rpm there is an 800 rpm shift drop between 1st and 2nd gear.

Wide ratio gear set is 2.73, 1.54 and 1.


Yet -- the more aggressive I am with the gas pedal the smaller amount of shift rpm drop I get --  :P


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 02, 2013, 10:02:29 am
I went to bed last night pondering about the two posts that I made about the rpm shift drops and couldn't figure out what was happening because I knew that a properly working trans combo would perform oppositely to what I had posted.

I guess I was too tired yesterday to pay enough attention.      :msorry:

So of course this morning I made sure that I was wide awake and performed a few "road tests".

Thank God the trans combo works as it should.

IOW the harder I am on the gas pedal the higher numerically of a rpm shift drop it gets.  Especially the 1st to 2nd gear change due to the wide-ratio gear set.

If I drive like there is law enforcement next to me the 1-2 shift shows a 200 rpm drop.  The 2-3 shift is maybe 100 rpm if that.

If I get on it rough like I like to occasionally drive then the 1-2 shift nets around 600-800 of a rpm drop.  The 2-3 shift is around 500 rpm dropping after the shift.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 02, 2013, 10:54:12 am
youre riding the converter at part throttle. surprised youre not used to this?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on October 02, 2013, 11:28:44 am
youre riding the converter at part throttle. surprised youre not used to this?
Exactly correct!. My C4/10" 3800-4000 rpm stall worked the same way. Under a full throttle 5250-5500 rpm shift it dropped 1000-1500 rpms.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 02, 2013, 11:44:51 am
youre riding the converter at part throttle. surprised youre not used to this?
And that riding is where the heat build up comes from.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 03, 2013, 03:42:03 pm
youre riding the converter at part throttle. surprised youre not used to this?
And that riding is where the heat build up comes from.


Yep.

Speaking of building heat -- if anyone has a manual V/B automatic transmission but doesn't have a trans-brake you can do this test AFTER your engine is up to operating temperature and you have a well built transmission with a very good external cooling system for it.

Yesterday I was at a complete stop in 3rd gear (1:1) and then I suddenly floored it and watched the tach for what rpm it climbed to before it moved the Merc.

I do not advise to do that test more than one time because it will build up an almost "explosive" amount of heat REALLY quickly for your poor transmission.

ALSO AFTERWARDS DO NOT SHUT OFF THE ENGINE OR THE BLAST OF HOT FLUID WILL NOT LIKE IT.

Keep the engine running which is continuing to work the transmission's pump to circulate the trans fluid so it can cool down.

I am very pleased to announce that I saw an honest 5500 rpm during that test.  Joe, Mike at WPT and the converter shop in Lake Havasu, AZ knows their stuff.  No bullshit.


Another thing that I just noticed while merging into traffic on a 40 mph road when I was in the middle of the road inside the yellow-lined turn part -- I was able to merge so effectively matching their speeds almost fucking effortlessly without flooring the Merc.

I am IOW saying that I can actually tell that the Merc is now FASTER than it has ever been in it's life.  The best gauge for me is how quick it can accelerate matching up with traffic because the other cars are very close to me ...

I know that the race track is the absolute and no-lie judge but I say that the Merc is faster after this "C6" and new converter was installed!  After I can get some money together, help my woman who has carcinoid lung cancer and will have surgery soon, and other family stuff I will return to the track to prove it with a time-slip.

 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 03, 2013, 04:27:12 pm
After I can get some money together, help my woman who has carcinoid lung cancer and will have surgery soon, and other family stuff I will return to the track to prove it with a time-slip.

 :burnout

You and her will be in my prayers.  You come across as a very loyal person Robert.  I'm glad your woman has you by her side.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 03, 2013, 04:35:01 pm
After I can get some money together, help my woman who has carcinoid lung cancer and will have surgery soon, and other family stuff I will return to the track to prove it with a time-slip.

 :burnout

You and her will be in my prayers.  You come across as a very loyal person Robert.  I'm glad your woman has you by her side.


Thank you, Nate.  God bless you and yours, too.

I would do anything for her and would gladly give my life to protect her.     :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 03, 2013, 06:06:02 pm
A couple of pix I took of me today ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 03, 2013, 07:34:31 pm
Dang!  You're packing on muscle bro!  :clap


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on October 03, 2013, 08:04:44 pm
Merc cracks me up. You always have a great attitude, even during shitty times. The shit you come up with at the times you do is something else. World needs more people like that. I hope for the best for your lady friend. May I ask how bad the cancer is,and how much do the doctors think that can get out with surgery? You can pm if you'd like. My fiance went through this last year with her dad. Just not isolated to lung cancer. He was pretty bad.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 03, 2013, 10:52:09 pm
Merc cracks me up. You always have a great attitude, even during shitty times. The shit you come up with at the times you do is something else. World needs more people like that. I hope for the best for your lady friend. May I ask how bad the cancer is,and how much do the doctors think that can get out with surgery? You can pm if you'd like. My fiance went through this last year with her dad. Just not isolated to lung cancer. He was pretty bad.


Her tumor is right now about 2 cm and is located on the upper-right lobe of her lung.  The surgeon said that he will have to remove that lobe which is roughly 1/3 of one of her lungs.

The carcinoid type of lung tumor that she has grows and spreads slowly.  It is not the same type of lung cancer that many people think of like small cell cancer or others that one gets from smoking or other lung irritations.

According to her surgeon and her oncologist (this is before her surgery) -- they both think that after removing the tumor on her lobe by removing that part of her lung -- it will get rid of it.

But before her lung surgery there is a "point of interest" on an adrenal gland of her's.  The oncologist doesn't think that it is a "spread" from the tumor on her lung but they want to do a biopsy of that before they do her lung surgery.  I am praying that they are right and that the "spot" on her adrenal gland is not cancerous.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on October 04, 2013, 01:00:36 am
You will both be in my prayers, Robert.

And when things are looking up, I look forward to seeing your track results.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Brent Clay on October 10, 2013, 04:01:05 pm
Merc cracks me up. You always have a great attitude, even during shitty times. The shit you come up with at the times you do is something else. World needs more people like that. I hope for the best for your lady friend. May I ask how bad the cancer is,and how much do the doctors think that can get out with surgery? You can pm if you'd like. My fiance went through this last year with her dad. Just not isolated to lung cancer. He was pretty bad.


I agree,  Merc has grown on me a lot.... He is definitely a good person and we need more people like him!

I know I have not been the kindest to him or his Stall converter ...LOL.  I admitted a while back I was wrong about him and his car.  The car has grown on me as well.  (runs damn good for a heavy car)

 I just want to see it use a 200 shot of juice and show them ricers what is up!  :)

Jim must have built a damn good motor for him! just listening to how he drives that car scares me enough to think most people would need a re-build done by now!  ;D

Brent


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on October 10, 2013, 04:48:28 pm
Hell I like to see a 100hp hit and some small slicks


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 10, 2013, 08:43:38 pm


I agree,  Merc has grown on me a lot.... He is definitely a good person and we need more people like him!

I know I have not been the kindest to him or his Stall converter ...LOL.  I admitted a while back I was wrong about him and his car.  The car has grown on me as well.  (runs damn good for a heavy car)

 I just want to see it use a 200 shot of juice and show them ricers what is up!  :)

Jim must have built a damn good motor for him! just listening to how he drives that car scares me enough to think most people would need a re-build done by now!  ;D

Brent


Thanks, Brent and "al2".

Jim did an excellent job on this engine.  Believe you me with the converter and gearing that I run at WOT it hits 7k very easily.  Although since it's a stock block and not a Dart block I try and keep shifting it at 6500 rpm because I do that daily.  When I type "daily" I am not exaggerating.

Even though I'm not going to juice a stroked stock block -- it is a blast to drive N/A -- no doubt there!      :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 11, 2013, 02:35:45 pm
If you know the words to this song -- it "takes my breath away" and puts me in my Happy Place rolling together two of my favorite things in this World and almost making them ONE -- my woman and my Merc!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 15, 2013, 12:40:35 pm
After work I am going to install these Mickey Thompson 30x12R15 tires on the Merc. These tires have normal tread material for the street. The sticky M/T tires that are on the Merc right now have only lasted barely eight months yet I only drive 8 miles 4 days a week to work and back.  I do have a lead foot, though ...


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 15, 2013, 12:43:19 pm
gonna be like ice skates bud  :whistling:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 15, 2013, 12:45:54 pm
gonna be like ice skates bud  :whistling:


Whatcha mean?      :dunno


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 15, 2013, 01:19:39 pm
gonna be like ice skates bud  :whistling:


Whatcha mean?      :dunno

He means they will not hook as well as the old tires.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 15, 2013, 01:20:59 pm
But it will 'feel' like more power as he can roast them at will  ;D

For a DD, give'm a try.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 15, 2013, 01:32:29 pm
Tires dont matter if you are always on the throttle.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 15, 2013, 02:42:00 pm
gonna be like ice skates bud  :whistling:


Whatcha mean?      :dunno

He means they will not hook as well as the old tires.


But it will 'feel' like more power as he can roast them at will  ;D

For a DD, give'm a try.


I like them because they are 12" wide and 30" tall for the best contact patch to the road.

Believe you me the sticky Mickey's were no match to the Merc -- I had to be careful with them too or they spun.  It's not like I was roasting them before I would go from a stop (on the street since the Merc is a DD, ya know?)

But at WOT after every shift they would spin noticeably.  They might be a little better than these new ones but hopefully these new ones will feel about the same.  These new ones had BETTER last longer!!!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 15, 2013, 05:56:22 pm
they are going to make a huge difference

we used to all run the futuras back in the day for "all season" tires


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on October 15, 2013, 07:21:27 pm
It's like trying to keep sneakers on a 9 year old!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 63lane2dr on October 15, 2013, 09:15:40 pm
My brother had those on his big block Comet. They were fine if you kept your foot out of it.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 15, 2013, 11:20:13 pm
they are going to make a huge difference

we used to all run the futuras back in the day for "all season" tires


What are "futuras"?

I just installed some M/T Streetmaster tires.

They are not a huge difference on the street for me.

I must have learned a while ago how to "launch" on the street without doing any burn-outs first like one would do driving their DD.

IOW I am able to take-off decently enough with these new street-tread tires.

One difference that I noted while driving it was that now after every somewhat aggressive shift the tires bark.  The sticky Mickey's did not do that.  I used to think that I would hear them spin but they did not bark.  Now the regular Mickey's bark.

I did a quick WOT 0-40 mph blast and they gripped adequately enough giving me enough traction so that the back-end wasn't dangerously "fish-tailing".  That is all that I'm going to ask of them -- traction-wise.

Soooooo, now my main concern is that these new Mickey's LAST!!!  We will have to see ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 16, 2013, 08:56:35 am
futuras are the cheap pepboys tire made by cooper


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 16, 2013, 09:33:00 am
futuras are the cheap pepboys tire made by cooper


I thought so something along those lines -- then I was like, dude, duuuude, I just put on MICKEY THOMPSON TIRES, not cheapo garbage tires!!!!!

 :whistling:


I just drove to work and on one of my favorite hardly traveled roads I did a 7k rpm WOT blast going up thru the gears from a 5 mph roll.

I am happy to report to you guys that it was no problem handling-wise which is what I was a little worried about.  These street tread tires definitely are spinning more between shifts going into the next gear but the Merc drives straight and true enough.  (Probably because I have done work on it's frame and it and I weigh ALMOST 2 tons -- 3850# ...)  LOL!

So I am very happy that I can drive OK with these new tires.  The BADASS news will be if they last me two years from yesterday when I installed them!

 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 16, 2013, 09:39:04 am
Oh yes, Juiced coupe -- I should have listened to you when you said that sticky tires don't last for a hoot on the street especially the way that I drive daily ...


 :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on October 29, 2013, 09:40:52 pm
I'm too lazy to read back through this.  Did you get your new trans yet?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 30, 2013, 12:13:03 am
I'm too lazy to read back through this.  Did you get your new trans yet?


Yes and it is the fastest the Merc has EVER been.  The C6 that they built for me is really good and the converter is much more efficient than the old 10" one.

I am very happy with it all, thanks!       :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 13, 2013, 11:59:42 pm
Here are a few pics I took today of the carb/intake.

A true 850cfm QuickFuel racing carb and a Super Victor intake manifold with 2" of open carb spacer between the two of them.  Lots of plenum space!  It revs up like super fast crazy -- I will have to make a video of it running with my hand working the carb's throttle lever one day soon.


 :rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 14, 2013, 12:00:44 am
Here is a better side shot that shows just how large and tall the Merc's 408W carb/intake really is ...      :naughty:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on December 14, 2013, 12:34:07 am
Those pictures gives my OCD fits.

Is your whole car done in red wire?  :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on December 14, 2013, 08:15:00 am
How big of a hood scoop do you have on that thing?   :question:

I would like to suggest that you get a proper throttle spring return bracket.  Stretching the springs that far is hard on that QF carb's throttle plate and will lead to increased wear and air leakage.   ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 14, 2013, 11:44:05 am
Those pictures gives my OCD fits.

Is your whole car done in red wire?  :)


Yeah, the 12+ Vdc lines ...      ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 14, 2013, 11:49:09 am
How big of a hood scoop do you have on that thing?   :question:



I modified the OEM hood on the Merc so that it fits!  The scoop is about four inches tall and the rear part of the hood closest to the window is purposely modified to be about another 3 inches taller than stock.

 :)

Although I get a lot of, "when are you going to fix that hood?" comments!  When I answer them back with, "that is how I want it", I always get a strange look!

 :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 14, 2013, 11:50:48 am


I would like to suggest that you get a proper throttle spring return bracket.  Stretching the springs that far is hard on that QF carb's throttle plate and will lead to increased wear and air leakage.   ;)


Thanks, Dennis.  I have really stretched those springs out actually more than they look.  It is not hard to move the throttle lever.  I know that having them pull from the side somewhat isn't the best but they are weak springs.

 :thanx:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on December 14, 2013, 11:52:38 am
periodically there are ported 2924's floating around with dominator flange for sale  :naughty:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 14, 2013, 11:53:53 am
periodically there are ported 2924's floating around with dominator flange for sale  :naughty:


I should have put all of this stuff in a Dart block but my patience had worn out ...      :duh


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: blue04.5 on December 14, 2013, 12:10:36 pm


Although I get a lot of, "when are you going to fix that hood?" comments!  When I answer them back with, "that is how I want it", I always get a strange look!

 :spit:
This reminded me of my grandpa he's been doing the patina look(not saying you are) for the last 60yrs. Anyway his daily driver is a 47 ford coupe with a 460 original paint, surface rust and primer. I found this picture online and was going to have it made into a sign or mounted in a picture frame for him.
(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/FORD_PSD/20131204_194445.jpg) (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/FORD_PSD/media/20131204_194445.jpg.html)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on December 14, 2013, 12:21:29 pm
(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/FORD_PSD/20131204_194445.jpg) (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/FORD_PSD/media/20131204_194445.jpg.html)

 :spit:  That is awesome!  :clap

I used to get people who loved to tell me my fastback wasn't a real Shelby.  As if it wasn't completely obvious and I was stupid.  ::)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Mr.Blue on December 16, 2013, 10:07:15 am
(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/FORD_PSD/20131204_194445.jpg) (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/FORD_PSD/media/20131204_194445.jpg.html)

 :spit:  That is awesome!  :clap


+1


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on December 16, 2013, 10:27:57 am
periodically there are ported 2924's floating around with dominator flange for sale  :naughty:


I should have put all of this stuff in a Dart block but my patience had worn out ...      :duh

I hear ya it looks like such a big mountain in the begining then after its up and running a bit its like gee that only took a few months I should have waited  :bang

but 351w block is plenty strong. you could play around with ideas here and there and fine tune small amounts of power its not going to suddenly break the block with another 15-20hp. some ideas work out great and some lose power every combo is different only way to know what your engine likes is to test and tune your combo


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on December 16, 2013, 10:28:36 am
besides its always easy to spend someone elses money  :drink


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 16, 2013, 12:41:36 pm
besides its always easy to spend someone elses money  :drink


 ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 09, 2014, 05:21:24 pm
Robert are u ok can't remember going this long without hearing something about the MERC. Hope your girl Is well


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: wywindsor on January 09, 2014, 11:36:54 pm
It's always about someone else's money.


   I love this saying. I have a buddy in Denver who lives his dream through other people money. He can talk people into spending money on his ideas, and he gets to build it. Just wish he owned a shop.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 09, 2014, 11:38:24 pm
It's always about someone else's money.


   I love this saying. I have a buddy in Denver who lives his dream through other people money. He can talk people into spending money on his ideas, and he gets to build it. Just wish he owned a shop.


Huh?      :dunno


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 09, 2014, 11:40:38 pm
Robert are u ok can't remember going this long without hearing something about the MERC. Hope your girl Is well


Thanks for asking!     :)


I have been super busy lately, with the Mon - Fri job and then working every weekend with the kiddie jumpers -- not to mention the couple hours usually Mon thru Wed in the evenings cleaning those jumpers.


And no, the Merc is hurting some.

You all and myself included won't believe this -- but lately the C6 trans is flaring on the 2-3 shift.



Between that fucking C4 and now apparently this new C6 I am SO FUCKING SICK AND TIRED OF THESE FUCKING FORD TRANSMISSIONS WITH THEIR STUPID FUCKING 2ND GEAR BAND RELEASE AND DIRECT DRUM CLUTCH PACK ENGAGEMENT 2-3 shift flaring issues.


I typed that some in caps but that isn't even conveying 10% of my anger of this problem that for me has been to no end.


The good news is that it is under warranty and will be looked at soon.






Last night in the shower I actually entertained pulling this shit out of the Merc and putting in a stick shift transmission.  It would be a lot of fun driving I know and I should be able to get a solid OD gear, right?!?!   

I wonder which manual trans would be able to REALLY hold the Merc's power, weight and my rough daily driving style?  And how hard would it be to add a clutch pedal to what I have now?  Seriously!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on January 10, 2014, 07:24:12 am
Sorry to hear Robert. 

Every tranny made has a limited lifetime and none are designed to be beaten on in a daily driver that is ran hard every time it hits the streets.   

If you want the best reliability, stay with an auto.  Unless you are willing to lay on your back to R&R stuff, then a stick car is not for you.  There are some manual transmissions that can take the abuse, but you are looking at thousands of $$ for one.  Then your next issue will be clutches and you can put a couple of G's into one of those too and still have issues time to time.  Other parts of the car will not like the abuse either.  Not a good thing for a daily driver.

Get your C6 warranted. 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 10, 2014, 07:57:36 am
Robert my c6 has been  beat on and keeps going. An old diesel Trans guy built it 20yrs ago. He had a Torino with a cobra jet engine and a c6 he said to put the ridged band and big servo and big block clutch drums and a full manual shift kit.
www.429-460.com/ on this forum they use a lot of c6 on big block fords. They have 2 places they recommend frank merkyl and broader performance in weatherford tx. Frank has several threads on building the c6 and fixing all the problems u have. If u can't find them let me no. When I talked to broader they did all the mods plus some that are in my Trans. Good luck



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 10, 2014, 09:45:38 am
Sorry to hear Robert. 

Every tranny made has a limited lifetime and none are designed to be beaten on in a daily driver that is ran hard every time it hits the streets.   

If you want the best reliability, stay with an auto.  Unless you are willing to lay on your back to R&R stuff, then a stick car is not for you.  There are some manual transmissions that can take the abuse, but you are looking at thousands of $$ for one.  Then your next issue will be clutches and you can put a couple of G's into one of those too and still have issues time to time.  Other parts of the car will not like the abuse either.  Not a good thing for a daily driver.

Get your C6 warranted. 



You know that I was ranted big TIME.  I was so frustrated.  Dennis, I respect your experience.  Thanks for the help.  I dig the custom work that you do and photo/share with us here.

I will take your advice because I do not want anymore added problems and our money is tight right now.

Thank God the C6 comes with a no questions asked unlimited miles one year warranty and it is only three months old if that.

Joe mentioned on the phone that it could be the billet intermediate servo's seals leaking.  He said that he didn't like the way the aftermarket changed the sealing assembly on that servo but didn't realize that it would give a problem.  We talked over the phone about changing that.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 10, 2014, 09:50:36 am
Robert my c6 has been  beat on and keeps going. An old diesel Trans guy built it 20yrs ago. He had a Torino with a cobra jet engine and a c6 he said to put the ridged band and big servo and big block clutch drums and a full manual shift kit.
www.429-460.com/ on this forum they use a lot of c6 on big block fords. They have 2 places they recommend frank merkyl and broader performance in weatherford tx. Frank has several threads on building the c6 and fixing all the problems u have. If u can't find them let me no. When I talked to broader they did all the mods plus some that are in my Trans. Good luck




Is the "big servo" the R servo?  Mine has the "R" billet one.

Thanks for your advice, I will check out that forum.

After the advice by Dennis earlier I will keep the C6 and I appreciate all of your help in this matter with me getting it fixed.


Truth be known, except for the 2-3 shift flare I was totally loving the new C6 and it's much more efficient converter.  I had earlier mistakingly thought that a loose converter was a good thing.  I was wrong.  A high stalling tight converter is a good thing!


 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 10, 2014, 10:26:07 am
Robert on that forum there is a thread Frank put in there on how to make a c6 live. One of the things is how u have to modify the case to use the sonnax servo. Wealth of info


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 10, 2014, 10:51:00 am
http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105603
Robert not to computer literate but I think this is one of the links on a bad as c6. Frank Merkyl uses one in a top sportsman car that has well over a thousand hp


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 10, 2014, 11:10:07 am
http://www.429-460.com/t19276-servo
Sonnax servo mod


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 10, 2014, 11:53:03 am
 :thanx:                     :rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on January 10, 2014, 05:01:53 pm
After all the C4s and now the C6 not lasting, I would start to point fingers at the builder. After all, he is the common denominator. I don't buy that well done, BUILT C6 would fail this soon even for you and your driving habits.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 10, 2014, 06:16:19 pm
After all the C4s and now the C6 not lasting, I would start to point fingers at the builder. After all, he is the common denominator. I don't buy that well done, BUILT C6 would fail this soon even for you and your driving habits.


I think that this is the problem.  He used an aftermarket servor which is packaged with a P.O.S. seal.  He needs to machine the aftermarket piston to be able to use the OEM seal.  And possibly the aftermarket piston spring that was included versus the OEM spring?


http://www.429-460.com/t19276-servo

Sonnax servo mod


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 10, 2014, 06:41:43 pm
Robert did u get the pm about the bolts in the valve body. U can fix them yourself they would be easy to miss torquing down when Trans was built. I guarantee that's what happened to mine. I pulled the pan to see if there was clutch or hard parts in pan but all that there was a
Valve body bolt. Retorque two bolts all problems went away


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on January 10, 2014, 07:15:31 pm
Failure after failure after failure and you keep giving him the benefit of the doubt and going back to him. I would have jumped ship a long time ago.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 10, 2014, 09:51:06 pm
Robert did u get the pm about the bolts in the valve body. U can fix them yourself they would be easy to miss torquing down when Trans was built. I guarantee that's what happened to mine. I pulled the pan to see if there was clutch or hard parts in pan but all that there was a
Valve body bolt. Retorque two bolts all problems went away


No, I got your PM.  Thanks.  I have been super busy lately and I just caught that damn chest cold last night where it takes about half of your energy but your lungs feel like they are fire when your breathe.  It sucks.

I will look at that stuff soon.      :thanx:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 10, 2014, 09:53:31 pm
Failure after failure after failure and you keep giving him the benefit of the doubt and going back to him. I would have jumped ship a long time ago.


The C6 is under warranty right now, so all of the work that he will be doing to make it right (parts and labor) will be 100% no charge to me.

After he fixes it this time I will have to re-evaluate his services if it breaks again anytime soon.  Money is real tight right now -- and if you remember he fixed that C4 three times under warranty for free and one more time after warranty for free, too ...


 :wonder:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on January 10, 2014, 10:17:34 pm
I have to say the transmission guy stands behind his work and very well may be learning as he goes with the Ford stuff. 

Robert, I think you have a couple ways to think about this.  Let the guy fix it for free and learn on your ride, or let him fix it this time and drive it easy until you save up to send it off or buy a C6 from another company you trust.

I really think you are in new territory for a lot of people.  Street driven with a higher stall daily and no mercy. LOL!  Lots of things can withstand a 1/4 mile blast and a cool off period. 

I would really like to see a trans fluid temp sensor on your ride.  I would want to know how hot the fluid got and if that was my issue.  You can piggy back trans coolers from what I have heard.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 10, 2014, 10:24:07 pm
Robert when you decide to look at your Trans if you need help figuring out what bolts I was talking about give me a call. It's been along time since I messed with c6 but I'm pretty sure the plate that the two bolts hold is where the main pressure comes from the pump to go thru the valve body. So it leaks pressure


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on January 11, 2014, 02:39:19 pm
For sure a accurate trans temp gauge is a must.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 11, 2014, 06:44:00 pm
 :takenote:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: badwhite98 on January 11, 2014, 09:57:37 pm
For sure a accurate trans temp gauge is a must.

hooked to a T-400.

Doesn't sound so bad now does it?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on January 11, 2014, 10:35:29 pm
c6 should be more than capable


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 11, 2014, 10:48:15 pm
I have to say the transmission guy stands behind his work and very well may be learning as he goes with the Ford stuff. 

Robert, I think you have a couple ways to think about this.  Let the guy fix it for free and learn on your ride, or let him fix it this time and drive it easy until you save up to send it off or buy a C6 from another company you trust.

I really think you are in new territory for a lot of people.  Street driven with a higher stall daily and no mercy. LOL!  Lots of things can withstand a 1/4 mile blast and a cool off period. 

I would really like to see a trans fluid temp sensor on your ride.  I would want to know how hot the fluid got and if that was my issue.  You can piggy back trans coolers from what I have heard.


Thanks, Nate.  Those who are close to me know that even sober sometimes my stupid mouth or keyboard says things that at the time I was very frustrated or scared or negative things along that so what comes out is appalling!

So IOW Nate what you said above is what I really mean - because I am going to stay with that transmission shop.


I have this flu that is going around -- when I am doing the jumpers my lungs feel like they are on fire.      :'(


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on January 12, 2014, 11:14:49 pm
Going to this trans builder NOW when the trans in under warranty I can understand. But, buying the C6 there after nothing but failures with another trans (the C4) I can't understand. I understand loyalty, but not when it comes with a 4 figure price tag when as you say, money is tight. Sounds to me like you need a trans specialist....as in a builder that specializes in the trans that you are using. If you are using a C6, then find a C6 specialist...ie Jay Broader. If AOD, then Lentech. So on so on.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 13, 2014, 10:01:12 am
Going to this trans builder NOW when the trans in under warranty I can understand. But, buying the C6 there after nothing but failures with another trans (the C4) I can't understand. I understand loyalty, but not when it comes with a 4 figure price tag when as you say, money is tight. Sounds to me like you need a trans specialist....as in a builder that specializes in the trans that you are using. If you are using a C6, then find a C6 specialist...ie Jay Broader. If AOD, then Lentech. So on so on.


I researched from the professionals about the C4 after I was having those problems.  (I should have done my research before!)  Told them it was a daily driver and how hard I drive it.  The weight of the Merc and I.  They all agreed that the C4 was a great trans but that would need to be freshened too much.

The trans shop that I go to has professional racers who drag at Pomona raceway.  I have talked with some of them.  Mostly PowerGlide work.  And they work on their own dragster.  That is enough experience for me.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on January 13, 2014, 02:20:40 pm
The trans shop that I go to has professional racers who drag at Pomona raceway.  I have talked with some of them.  Mostly PowerGlide work.  And they work on their own dragster.  That is enough experience for me.

It may be enough experience for you but it obviously isn't enough for them to be able to get good results in your case. Think about how many times you have been wrong......this is just another time to add to the list.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: wywindsor on January 13, 2014, 11:26:43 pm
Robert, There is another guy who frequents tnr forum. He goes by moco. He lives in Dallas and is a wealth of knowledge on all transmissions. I talked to him several times about an aod before I bought one from Mighty mouse. I would have built one but the price was the same MM sold me one for.


   Anyhow he talks about a building a c6 that will hold the same hp as a turbo 400 same price. His junk is fast and holds togather well.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 13, 2014, 11:36:11 pm
Robert, There is another guy who frequents tnr forum. He goes by moco. He lives in Dallas and is a wealth of knowledge on all transmissions. I talked to him several times about an aod before I bought one from Mighty mouse. I would have built one but the price was the same MM sold me one for.


   Anyhow he talks about a building a c6 that will hold the same hp as a turbo 400 same price. His junk is fast and holds togather well.


He does this for a living?  Do you remember the name of his shop?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 14, 2014, 07:29:02 am
Robert when I thought my Trans was done I researched and came up with 2 names for a c6. Frank Merkyl in Canada and broader performance. But building a c6 is one of the easiest Trans to build. Have your guys look at the post I gave you on building a c6 to live at 800hp. If your Trans worked good at first it is probably not the servo but that mod needs done. It may have the same thing wrong my Trans did. Just pull Trans pan and look.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 14, 2014, 09:55:29 am
Robert when I thought my Trans was done I researched and came up with 2 names for a c6. Frank Merkyl in Canada and broader performance. But building a c6 is one of the easiest Trans to build. Have your guys look at the post I gave you on building a c6 to live at 800hp. If your Trans worked good at first it is probably not the servo but that mod needs done. It may have the same thing wrong my Trans did. Just pull Trans pan and look.


Thanks but I can't touch it so as to not void the warranty.  He will fix it in February.  I will research all of the stuff that you showed me where Frank Merkyl had given his notes about building a strong C6.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 14, 2014, 12:00:09 pm
Robert I hate to say this and agree with z adamson but if you can't drop the pan for inspection or fluid and filter changes without voiding the warranty you need another transmission builder.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 14, 2014, 12:13:25 pm
Robert I hate to say this and agree with z adamson but if you can't drop the pan for inspection or fluid and filter changes without voiding the warranty you need another transmission builder.


In this special case type of business relationship that we have developed it does seem to my reasoning that their experienced eyes should be the ones who see what the bottom of the pan looks like as well as the condition of the trans fluid.  They know a LOT more about that stuff from their years of experience than I currently know.  And it's their dime.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 14, 2014, 02:18:42 pm
Had to get on the brakes more so than usual and the Merc pulled to the right an annoyingly amount.  Then after that it was pulling to the right the rest of the half mile to work.

Jacked up the Merc and found this -- see the large "nut" that holds the upper "saddle" to the frame?  The shiny part is the stripped threads that should be to the right fully inside instead of hanging outside of that ...


Wanna learn how to say FUCK in many different languages?!?!?!?!?!?!?      :bang


Grateful that I didn't wreck the Merc though ...      :rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on January 14, 2014, 02:30:16 pm
Owie!  Glad you're safe, it wouldn't be the same around here without you.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on January 14, 2014, 02:35:46 pm
Looks like you got off easy Robert.  Glad you didn't get in a wreck buddy!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 14, 2014, 04:20:52 pm
Glad nothing got hurt. Had those been replaced before.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 14, 2014, 05:51:07 pm
Owie!  Glad you're safe, it wouldn't be the same around here without you.
Looks like you got off easy Robert.  Glad you didn't get in a wreck buddy!
Glad nothing got hurt. Had those been replaced before.


Not since I've owned the Merc since November 1999.  I don't know about the past owners.


Thanks guys for the well wishes.  You dudes are cool in my book, too.

I am still too worn out to fix it this evening.  Possibly tomorrow evening.  I can't stand relying on inferior transportation.  I guess it does beat walking, though!


I am going to try and get it running safely again soon, believe that!    :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on January 14, 2014, 06:23:21 pm
Owwww bummer Robert.

I don't know if you are aware of it, but there are fine threads on the upper control arm that the OUTER part of the exposed nut bushing threads into.  That is what keeps it all together, not the inner connection on the shaft.  Often those outer control arm threads are boogered so bad (rust, wear, damage) that it can no longer be properly put back together safely. Inspect it well.

You may need to source another control arm in order to make it safe again.  Also, it is recommended that you check out the upper control arm on the other side of the car at the same time.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on January 14, 2014, 07:36:35 pm
Glad nothing serious happened.  If I remember right on my 70, the arms shouldn't move side to side enough to get completely free of the shaft. 

But, take it as a lesson.

Your driving habits, driving the car as hard as you do, the age of parts, the unknown, the power you have...  you NEED to be doing preventative inspections and maintenance.   You 'abuse' it more than a race car.  Give it the respect and attention it deserves that goes along with playing this game. When s..t happens, that's just the hidden price, just got to accept things will happen when on a budget. :rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 17, 2014, 11:59:39 am
I just ordered this.  Looks like last week of January the Merc's C6 will get looked at.  And this gauge will be installed, too.


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0095ZKA06/ref=pe_385040_30332200_pe_309540_26725410_item_image


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on January 17, 2014, 12:05:18 pm
Had to get on the brakes more so than usual and the Merc pulled to the right an annoyingly amount.  Then after that it was pulling to the right the rest of the half mile to work.

Jacked up the Merc and found this -- see the large "nut" that holds the upper "saddle" to the frame?  The shiny part is the stripped threads that should be to the right fully inside instead of hanging outside of that ...


Wanna learn how to say FUCK in many different languages?!?!?!?!?!?!?      :bang


Grateful that I didn't wreck the Merc though ...      :rock
Heard that in many languages yesterday at work. The shaft broke in my coworkers ranchero in the same spot as yours while he was driving in. He was able to limp it home and tear into it last night.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 17, 2014, 12:18:06 pm
 :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on January 17, 2014, 02:19:07 pm
Robert I hate to say this and agree with z adamson but if you can't drop the pan for inspection or fluid and filter changes without voiding the warranty you need another transmission builder.


In this special case type of business relationship that we have developed it does seem to my reasoning that their experienced eyes should be the ones who see what the bottom of the pan looks like as well as the condition of the trans fluid.  They know a LOT more about that stuff from their years of experience than I currently know.  And it's their dime.

There again, this is YOUR reasoning which historically has not served you well. All this years of experience they have has not gotten results in your case. Time to move on I think. But it's your life, your car, your decision. It's their dime in this warranty case, but whose dime was it for the C6 up front after all those previous failures form the same builder?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 18, 2014, 09:02:56 am
Robert did you get the a frame fixed on your car? If the control arm want hold a metal bushing anymore and money is tight Moog used to make a kit to go to conventional bushings to save the control arm. Seem like they were called problem solver.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 18, 2014, 09:12:37 am
Got to thinking Robert it might be cheaper and easier if you have never replaced the upper ball joints to get a replacement control arm.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 18, 2014, 06:18:19 pm
It is fixed, thanks.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on February 12, 2014, 01:40:03 pm
Robert did u ever get your transmission working properly ?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 12, 2014, 02:37:28 pm
Robert did u ever get your transmission working properly ?


Not yet, it is still at the transmission shop.

Waiting for an outside machine shop to drill three more drain hole in the new direct drum so that the clutch packs are able to engage quicker than before.  OEM it has three .125" holes -- we are stepping up to six holes.

He already bought me a new drum and a new clutch pack with semi-metallic clutches.

The trans pan has already been drilled and fitted with the temp gauge sensor bung.



Hurry up good machine shop!      ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on February 12, 2014, 02:57:00 pm
I thought I saw your car there yesterday


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 12, 2014, 03:21:49 pm
I thought I saw your car there yesterday


Where?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on February 12, 2014, 05:11:06 pm
His shop. I pass by there everyday


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 12, 2014, 09:18:17 pm
His shop. I pass by there everyday


Going to work I think, huh?


Cool.  Yep, the white '69 Merc with the crazy looking hood.  The inside has been gutted.  It needs lots of love and attention -- slowly but surely as time, money and life allows.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 24, 2014, 12:25:39 pm
I think that the Merc will be finished tomorrow.  I miss it a LOT!!!      :whistling:


I am putting this in to replace the crappy B & M shifter that only lasted 3 years even though I only drive about 4500 miles a year.


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tac-70003b/overview/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tac-70003b/overview/)


I have played with that shifter out of the Merc and it is WAY cooler -- I really enjoy the "gate" type of shifting versus the straight line type of shifting that the B & M was.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 24, 2014, 01:42:24 pm
 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on February 24, 2014, 02:09:36 pm
Good luck Robert I hope everything works out


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: nealysa on February 24, 2014, 03:52:22 pm
 :Gluck:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 24, 2014, 06:01:26 pm
Thanks guys!

When I get the Merc back I will have to report.

I will have to drive over and see Tim (Fordracing250) at his job AFTER I clean the Merc up some -- it is a filthy mess right now.


 :duh


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 24, 2014, 07:07:00 pm
Assuming we stay on schedule, getting the merc back tomorrow means that it will be back in the tranny shop by no later than July.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on February 24, 2014, 10:58:25 pm
Robert I'm not going to pretend I understand all of this auto transmission mumbo jumbo that's thrown around in here.  I do hope you're back to enjoying it soon.   :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on February 24, 2014, 11:14:28 pm
Assuming we stay on schedule, getting the merc back tomorrow means that it will be back in the tranny shop by no later than July.

What happened to "it's his life, his car and his decision?"



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 25, 2014, 12:18:48 am
Assuming we stay on schedule, getting the merc back tomorrow means that it will be back in the tranny shop by no later than July.

All in all, it could be worse... He could be driving a van.  :whistling:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 25, 2014, 01:10:28 am
Thanks guys!

When I get the Merc back I will have to report.

I will have to drive over and see Tim (Fordracing250) at his job AFTER I clean the Merc up some -- it is a filthy mess right now.


 :duh

Robert, I've met Tim at the track and can tell you he is a good dude and real car guy.  He can look past the cleaning up and appreciate what you have.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 25, 2014, 01:12:44 am
Assuming we stay on schedule, getting the merc back tomorrow means that it will be back in the tranny shop by no later than July.

Wasn't a C6 going to solve his problems with little down side?  :dunno


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on February 25, 2014, 07:18:49 am
Quote from: z-adamson on February 24, 2014, 07:07:00 pm
Assuming we stay on schedule, getting the merc back tomorrow means that it will be back in the tranny shop by no later than July.

All in all, it could be worse... He could be driving a van. 

                          :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 25, 2014, 09:59:57 am
Assuming we stay on schedule, getting the merc back tomorrow means that it will be back in the tranny shop by no later than July.

Wasn't a C6 going to solve his problems with little down side?  :dunno


It was supposed to ...      :P


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on February 25, 2014, 02:23:56 pm
Thanks guys!

When I get the Merc back I will have to report.

I will have to drive over and see Tim (Fordracing250) at his job AFTER I clean the Merc up some -- it is a filthy mess right now.


 :duh

Robert, I've met Tim at the track and can tell you he is a good dude and real car guy.  He can look past the cleaning up and appreciate what you have.
I respect cars no matter what they are, look like or have in them. I may poke fun, but I do that just to have fun.
I met Robert a few months back, hell it might have been a year ago by now.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 25, 2014, 03:26:50 pm
Thanks guys!

When I get the Merc back I will have to report.

I will have to drive over and see Tim (Fordracing250) at his job AFTER I clean the Merc up some -- it is a filthy mess right now.


 :duh

Robert, I've met Tim at the track and can tell you he is a good dude and real car guy.  He can look past the cleaning up and appreciate what you have.
I respect cars no matter what they are, look like or have in them. I may poke fun, but I do that just to have fun.
I met Robert a few months back, hell it might have been a year ago by now.


Yeah, Tim is good people.  He gave me a decent price on a SBF starter.  It has been awhile, true -- time sure passes.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 25, 2014, 04:28:39 pm
All in all, it could be worse... He could be driving a van. 

This van has been 100% trouble free for about 2 years and nearly 28k miles now. Merc would be blessed to be driving this van.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 25, 2014, 04:30:08 pm
Wasn't a C6 going to solve his problems with little down side?  :dunno

Thanks to his trans builder it hasn't.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 25, 2014, 06:08:26 pm
All in all, it could be worse... He could be driving a van. 

This van has been 100% trouble free for about 2 years and nearly 28k miles now. Merc would be blessed to be driving this van.


Even though I have had some recent trans trouble I would rather have the much faster Merc than your van in any lifetime.


Wasn't a C6 going to solve his problems with little down side?  :dunno

Thanks to his trans builder it hasn't.


Well haven't you been the blue bird of happiness, lately?!?!

I have gotten lots of freebies from them that helps compensate for my troubles, too.      ::)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 25, 2014, 07:10:56 pm
[Even though I have had some recent trans trouble I would rather have the much faster Merc than your van in any lifetime.

Well haven't you been the blue bird of happiness, lately?!?!

I have gotten lots of freebies from them that helps compensate for my troubles, too.      ::)

If you want to talk about whats faster than what....

When I want to go fast, I start up my 2013 Camaro 2SS or my 2013 Suzuki M109R depending on weather. The van is a utility vehicle. If the Camaro wont smoke the Merc (maybe it will maybe it wont) then rest assured that the Suzuki will absolutly destroy the Merc.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on February 25, 2014, 07:37:33 pm
[Even though I have had some recent trans trouble I would rather have the much faster Merc than your van in any lifetime.

Well haven't you been the blue bird of happiness, lately?!?!

I have gotten lots of freebies from them that helps compensate for my troubles, too.      ::)

If you want to talk about whats faster than what....

When I want to go fast, I start up my 2013 Camaro 2SS or my 2013 Suzuki M109R depending on weather. The van is a utility vehicle. If the Camaro wont smoke the Merc (maybe it will maybe it wont) then rest assured that the Suzuki will absolutly destroy the Merc.

 :spit: you're kidding right?

Roberts already proven hes faster than both of those and if he got some seat time hed be even faster


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 25, 2014, 07:44:29 pm
If the Camaro wont smoke the Merc (maybe it will maybe it wont) then rest assured that the Suzuki will absolutly destroy the Merc.

Camaro ? No. Not unless its had a decent amount of work done to it and some tires.

M109R? Maybe. Like it might would catch him by the end of the 1/4, if you were a great rider. Maybe, not likely.
For big bikes, those things are notoriously slow compared to their competition.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 25, 2014, 08:04:49 pm
:spit: you're kidding right?

Thats what your dumb ass said last time I mentioned the camaro having independent rear suspension.



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 25, 2014, 08:45:21 pm
That camaro is quick but nowhere near as fast as the Merc has proven itself to be at the drag strip. Not even close.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 26, 2014, 12:05:41 am
[Even though I have had some recent trans trouble I would rather have the much faster Merc than your van in any lifetime.

Well haven't you been the blue bird of happiness, lately?!?!

I have gotten lots of freebies from them that helps compensate for my troubles, too.      ::)

If you want to talk about whats faster than what....

When I want to go fast, I start up my 2013 Camaro 2SS or my 2013 Suzuki M109R depending on weather. The van is a utility vehicle. If the Camaro wont smoke the Merc (maybe it will maybe it wont) then rest assured that the Suzuki will absolutly destroy the Merc.


Well aren't you turning into a fucking TROLL.  I love it!

I am truly confident that the Merc as IS would destroy your Camaro and could beat you in a 660' if you were riding your little gook-bike.  (Were you REALLY comparing a motorcycle to the Merc, a 3650# car?  LOL!)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on February 26, 2014, 09:18:32 am
Robert calm down. Your Merc is a real hotrod not a troll hauler


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on February 26, 2014, 09:24:18 am
:spit: you're kidding right?

Thats what your dumb ass said last time I mentioned the camaro having independent rear suspension.



take your pos 4000lb independant rear camaro to the track and let us know  :idea


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 26, 2014, 09:36:36 am
Robert calm down. Your Merc is a real hotrod not a troll hauler



 ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on February 26, 2014, 10:09:54 am
:spit: you're kidding right?

Thats what your dumb ass said last time I mentioned the camaro having independent rear suspension.

take your pos 4000lb independant rear camaro to the track and let us know  :idea

Hahaha you've been called out.  Do you just have a big mouth or can you back it up?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on February 26, 2014, 12:01:36 pm
Wow, kinda sporting in here


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 26, 2014, 04:09:37 pm
take your pos 4000lb independant rear camaro to the track and let us know  :idea

Let us know what?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 26, 2014, 07:39:35 pm
take your pos 4000lb independant rear camaro to the track and let us know  :idea

Dude, don't forget how literal he is. You have to tell him exactly what you want him to do.

Let us know what?

See what I mean!    :dissap:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: wywindsor on February 26, 2014, 10:11:27 pm
We took a 2010 camaro to the track with street tires and beat the shit out of her at 4800' 90 degree and 15% humidiy. Go figure and 14.3 was the best we got.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on February 27, 2014, 09:33:27 am
our DA is usually around 3500 and those turds go high 13's to low 14's here

dont get me wrong its a great engine that I appreciate it just comes in an overweight pos


zadamson we want you to go to the dragstrip, make passes, and post the slip  :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 27, 2014, 09:59:39 am
our DA is usually around 3500 and those turds go high 13's to low 14's here

dont get me wrong its a great engine that I appreciate it just comes in an overweight pos


zadamson we want you to go to the dragstrip, make passes, and post the slip  :burnout


My sentiments EXACTLY!!!

(I have no problem with Chevy at all -- I know that my Merc is heavy but what in the fudge were they thinking at Chevy when they made it SO heavy?!?!)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 27, 2014, 12:15:15 pm
I don't think he realized the Merc had high 11's in it.  Not sure what the new transmission will do.  But it will still have the new Camaro covered by car lengths.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 27, 2014, 12:49:42 pm
I don't think he realized the Merc had high 11's in it.  Not sure what the new transmission will do.  But it will still have the new Camaro covered by car lengths.


That was first time at ANY dragstrip.  On Nittos, too.

On slicks and more seat time I am confident that the Merc could go low 11's.

With some expensive suspension work high 10's ...







 :popcorn:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 27, 2014, 02:08:40 pm
I thought the merc only did an 1/8 mile?

Anyhow, my camaro came with pirelli "racing" tires from the factory, not the "street" tires and  it does low 13s to high 12s. I have not done that personally though......plenty of people out there have my car and have done it. I will not drag race this car, I like to baby it. I don't need to drag race it to know what it can do since so many people out there are already doing it with the same car.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 27, 2014, 02:11:57 pm
pos 4000lb independant rear camaro

You just called my camaro a POS.

Lets see what you drive daily and see if my car really is a POS next to what you drive.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: lonestang95 on February 27, 2014, 03:03:56 pm
 z-adamson
If you want to talk about whats faster than what....

When I want to go fast, I start up my 2013 Camaro 2SS or my 2013 Suzuki M109R depending on weather. The van is a utility vehicle. If the Camaro wont smoke the Merc (maybe it will maybe it wont) then rest assured that the Suzuki will absolutly destroy the Merc.
[/quote]




Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 27, 2014, 03:06:23 pm
I thought the merc only did an 1/8 mile?

Anyhow, my camaro came with pirelli "racing" tires from the factory, not the "street" tires and  it does low 13s to high 12s. I have not done that personally though......plenty of people out there have my car and have done it. I will not drag race this car, I like to baby it. I don't need to drag race it to know what it can do since so many people out there are already doing it with the same car.

Irwindale is the only track within a reasonable distance to Robert.  It's an 1/8 mile track.  The car is much better suited to the 1/4 mile due to gearing and tire height.  It will pull away from you the whole back half of the track.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 27, 2014, 03:11:08 pm
Quote
When I want to go fast, I start up my 2013 Camaro 2SS or my 2013 Suzuki M109R depending on weather. The van is a utility vehicle. If the Camaro wont smoke the Merc (maybe it will maybe it wont) then rest assured that the Suzuki will absolutly destroy the Merc.

This is the horribly inaccurate post you made that people are responding to.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 27, 2014, 04:13:04 pm
Quote
When I want to go fast, I start up my 2013 Camaro 2SS or my 2013 Suzuki M109R depending on weather. The van is a utility vehicle. If the Camaro wont smoke the Merc (maybe it will maybe it wont) then rest assured that the Suzuki will absolutly destroy the Merc.

This is the horribly inaccurate post you made that people are responding to.

I never said the camaro would out-perform the merc.

I don't buy that the merc would out-perform my bike.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on February 27, 2014, 04:20:18 pm
theres not much doubt Robert would beat YOU on your bike, let alone some guy you saw on youtube


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on February 27, 2014, 04:22:17 pm
I love 1st gen fbodys but I hate all 5th gen alike not just yours


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on February 27, 2014, 04:39:02 pm
z-adamson I bet your one of them guys that someone took your lunch money every day at school


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 27, 2014, 05:38:09 pm
Quote
When I want to go fast, I start up my 2013 Camaro 2SS or my 2013 Suzuki M109R depending on weather. The van is a utility vehicle. If the Camaro wont smoke the Merc (maybe it will maybe it wont) then rest assured that the Suzuki will absolutly destroy the Merc.

This is the horribly inaccurate post you made that people are responding to.

I never said the camaro would out-perform the merc.

I don't buy that the merc would out-perform my bike.


How is a 12 second bike going to "absolutely destroy" something that runs 11's?      :347ho:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 27, 2014, 07:16:18 pm
How is a 12 second bike going to "absolutely destroy" something that runs 11's?      :347ho:

FIrst of all, you have never run a 1/4 mile. Secondly, my bike is not stock.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 27, 2014, 07:17:50 pm
I love 1st gen fbodys but I hate all 5th gen alike not just yours

So jayh, you gunna post some pics of your daily driver? I would love to see it.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: wywindsor on February 27, 2014, 07:48:25 pm
Here is one of mine.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 27, 2014, 08:25:47 pm
How is a 12 second bike going to "absolutely destroy" something that runs 11's?      :347ho:

FIrst of all, you have never run a 1/4 mile.


Does not matter.

 




 Secondly, my bike is not stock.


Do you have any pics of your bike?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on February 27, 2014, 08:37:32 pm
Talk is cheap...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on February 27, 2014, 08:42:39 pm
Z's bike probably has never seen a real racetrack.  Line him up against the Merc for best out of 3 and watch his ass eat the pavement . . . .


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 28, 2014, 12:51:55 am
Quote
When I want to go fast, I start up my 2013 Camaro 2SS or my 2013 Suzuki M109R depending on weather. The van is a utility vehicle. If the Camaro wont smoke the Merc (maybe it will maybe it wont) then rest assured that the Suzuki will absolutly destroy the Merc.

This is the horribly inaccurate post you made that people are responding to.

I never said the camaro would out-perform the merc.

I don't buy that the merc would out-perform my bike.

You suggested the Camaro might out perform it which is wildly inaccurate. 

Out perform your bike how?  Theoretically, or with the two of you behind the wheel in the 1/4 mile?  There is no clear answer to that.  We don't know how you ride.  You could be a professional racer.  But, the best out there piloting that bike in the 1/4 mile seem to suggest that in stock form I should bet on the big bad Merc.  Nothing more.

I love 1st gen fbodys but I hate all 5th gen alike not just yours

So jayh, you gunna post some pics of your daily driver? I would love to see it.

His daily driver has zero to do with how much he likes any car.  You just want to know what he drives in hopes of feeling superior.  I guess you should just cut to the point and see who can beat who up and who has the longer dick that's seen the most action. LOL!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 28, 2014, 01:01:37 am
Adamson, there is plenty I like and respect about you.  But sometimes we aren't even in the same ballpark.  I don't view you as a bad person or an enemy.  Just felt it needed to be said.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 28, 2014, 01:03:30 am
Here is one of mine.

That's nothing.  I heard Jayh commutes in his private helicopter. 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on February 28, 2014, 05:53:53 am
my daily is a GMC Sierra by choice I could very well have an old e150 van if that was my desire

honestly if you didnt post such stupid shit and try to feel superior to others I would have never said a word. We all have a common interest and I wish everyone success in their projects. if I see something I would do differently I usually say so but we all have different opinions and points of view welcome to the internet

Robert loves his car and I have respect for that. thats all there is to it


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on February 28, 2014, 06:06:19 am
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae336/clubpenguin551/gmcpa_zpse0c6a75d.jpg)

does this make you feel better? its just a half ton work truck nothing special at all


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 28, 2014, 04:14:34 pm
His daily driver has zero to do with how much he likes any car.  You just want to know what he drives in hopes of feeling superior.  I guess you should just cut to the point and see who can beat who up and who has the longer dick that's seen the most action. LOL!

He said that it is a PIECE OF SHIT. If thats what my car is to him then he must have something MUCH nicer and I wanted to see what it is. You totally missed-read my line of question.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 28, 2014, 04:17:19 pm
my daily is a GMC Sierra by choice

My car is a piece of shit yet you drive that? Care to explain why my car is so shitty next to yours Sierra?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 28, 2014, 06:24:28 pm
He said that it is a PIECE OF SHIT. If thats what my car is to him then he must have something MUCH nicer and I wanted to see what it is. You totally missed-read my line of question.

My car is a piece of shit yet you drive that? Care to explain why my car is so shitty next to yours Sierra?

There you go again, taking things the wrong way. You have absolutely no concept of slang, and that make dealing with you much harder to tolerate.

When he said "your pos", it simply meant your car.

If you don't believe me, feel free to read through his many posts. You will notice how often he refers to objects similarly.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 28, 2014, 08:11:35 pm

There you go again, taking things the wrong way. You have absolutely no concept of slang, and that make dealing with you much harder to tolerate.

When he said "your pos", it simply meant your car.




Exactly.


When I say to you, "let me see some pictures of your junk" -- I do NOT want you to IM me pictures of your manhood!      :jawdrop:



I am of course asking you to upload some quality pix of your vehicle/motorcycle!!!






Nor am I calling your nice ride "junk" in the sense that I think that it is actually JUNK -- it is humorous sarcastic slang "guy-talk"!      :rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Red5.0 on February 28, 2014, 11:47:44 pm
So anyways Robert how is the Merc doing? At least I thought this thread was about your car.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on March 01, 2014, 09:34:02 am
Exactly they are all pos's we just love some more than others

At the end of the day Robert loves his car that's all that matters


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 01, 2014, 10:11:02 am
So anyways Robert how is the Merc doing? At least I thought this thread was about your car.


I am hoping that it will be ready Monday evening ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on March 01, 2014, 01:29:28 pm
That's good to hear Robert.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 03, 2014, 09:29:29 pm
I got it and drove it around and finally to home.

The Turbo Cheetah shifter is much better -- feels better and more like a race car.  Live and learn!


The C6 shifts better, now.  It performs like I feel like it should.  At easier pedal shifting it shifts very hard with a thump that is noticeable.

At WOT it's shifts are not felt like granny-shifting ones but are VERY quick.  That I know is HOW it is SUPPOSED to be.  The faster it shifts the better.

I found some safe roadway and went all out paying close attention to how it shifts the "dreaded" 2-3 shift and it did not flare at all.  It just instantly drops a couple hundred rpm's (like maybe 500!   :)) and that is all.  The tach did not raise any rpm's at all.

That is good.  Real good!


 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on March 03, 2014, 09:43:02 pm
Hell yeah Robert.  Sounds good. 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on March 03, 2014, 11:17:24 pm
Congratulations!  Do you have a temp gauge for the trans fluid?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 04, 2014, 12:19:54 am
Congratulations!  Do you have a temp gauge for the trans fluid?


Yes I do.  This one -->  

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0095ZKA06/ref=cm_cr_ryp_prd_ttl_sol_0 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0095ZKA06/ref=cm_cr_ryp_prd_ttl_sol_0)



The bung/sensor is already welded into the pan.  I am going to work early tomorrow morning to install the gauge and then wire it up so it will function.  The gauge looks very cool!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on March 04, 2014, 07:23:43 am
Glad to see you got it back Robert.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on March 04, 2014, 08:10:19 am
500 sounds a bit loose


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 04, 2014, 10:01:49 am
500 sounds a bit loose


Yeah.  A bit.  But for my DD street driving it seems to work good.  Like really good.

When I first got it I put the manual VB into high gear (3rd) and floored it from a stand-still.  That fucker pegs 5500 rpms.  It is perfect as far as the stall that I had requested.  A little loose but I am happy with it for DD.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 04, 2014, 03:33:22 pm
Drove it a mile or so to the BK for lunch today.  Was aggressive on the pedal.

The trans did not get past 120* F.  Outside temp is 67* F right now.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on March 04, 2014, 04:20:25 pm
you shift at 6k?

I shift like 7300 its still pulling Im just scared lol. my converter goes anywhere from 59-6200 depending on air and tune


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 04, 2014, 04:39:12 pm
I shift like 7300 its still pulling Im just scared lol. my converter goes anywhere from 59-6200 depending on air and tune


Nice!      :party


you shift at 6k?


Normally when I get aggressive with it I shift 6500 - 6800 rpm.  Once in awhile I hold it until 7k.     ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 04, 2014, 08:43:37 pm
Drove it home and the gauge showed 164* F as it's hottest temp.  Had to drive more normal because of end of work-day traffic.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on March 05, 2014, 01:03:44 am
The temp gauge is critical in my opinion.  Be hard on it all you like.  But, once it gets hot just baby it until it cools back down.  You're back in action Robert!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 05, 2014, 10:35:11 am
The temp gauge is critical in my opinion.  Be hard on it all you like. 

But, once it gets hot just baby it until it cools back down


You're back in action Robert!


As in over 200* F -- because I know that when it's hot on a summer day I am sure that I will get it hotter than 160's* F?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on March 05, 2014, 01:37:19 pm
The temp gauge is critical in my opinion.  Be hard on it all you like. 

But, once it gets hot just baby it until it cools back down


You're back in action Robert!


As in over 200* F -- because I know that when it's hot on a summer day I am sure that I will get it hotter than 160's* F?

Ask your transmission guy.  I don't think my SUV's warning light comes on until 230 or more.  Sort of like when to get concerned your coolant is getting too hot.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on March 05, 2014, 04:26:46 pm
As in over 200* F -- because I know that when it's hot on a summer day I am sure that I will get it hotter than 160's* F?

My understanding is that anything over 180*F is warmer than what you want to see. My c6 in my van never seems to see temps higher than 160*F.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 06, 2014, 09:58:26 am
As in over 200* F -- because I know that when it's hot on a summer day I am sure that I will get it hotter than 160's* F?

My understanding is that anything over 180*F is warmer than what you want to see. My c6 in my van never seems to see temps higher than 160*F.


Anything over 200* F starts to break down the good insulating (both mechanical and heat) properties of the trans fluid oil.  The hotter over 200* F the less the fluid is "helping".      :o

On a hot day I could see 220 or 230* F here in this Hell Hole (temperature-wise) they call OC, CA if I have been doing some very aggressive driving and then after a couple of hard core "runs" -- for a couple of seconds.  


The good news is that my trans guy has my trans fluid running thru the engine's radiator and also the Merc has a large external trans fluid cooler, too.

After a 220 - 230* F run the Merc should be left running (to continue the trans pump to keep it cooling!) but baby'ed until it cooled down.



The trick is to keep the time at those over 200* F temps to be as short as possible.      :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on March 06, 2014, 02:29:59 pm
Robert keep an eye on Trans fluid smell and color. It will tell you if it is breaking down. We use to street drive my mustang a lot in the Texas summer never had any problems. All I have is an auxiliary cooler mounted in frt of the radiator. On my setup the auxiliary cooler would keep fluid cooler than when we tried using both cooler and rad


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on March 06, 2014, 02:42:16 pm
Robert keep an eye on Trans fluid smell and color. It will tell you if it is breaking down. We use to street drive my mustang a lot in the Texas summer never had any problems. All I have is an auxiliary cooler mounted in frt of the radiator. On my setup the auxiliary cooler would keep fluid cooler than when we tried using both cooler and rad

I can see how hotter water temps could wind up heating the trans fluid. 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 06, 2014, 02:44:09 pm
Here is something that for me is tough to wrap my head around.

I have a manual valvebody where the trans fluid pressure is basically maxed out at all rpm's.


When I shift the trans at low rpm it gives one quick yet SOLID buck that you can feel.

At higher rpm's the buck feeling is less.

And finally when I go WOT and do a "run" I do not feel anything when I shift the trans.  You can verify the actual shifts by the slight change in engine sound and the tachometer needle.


(True I am "driving thru the converter" somewhat because at WOT if I shift at 7k I only am seeing a 500rpm drop.)



I asked my trans guys why does it kick real good at low rpm's yet less and less with shifting up higher and then I feel nothing at all at WOT?


He said that the more power you make the less you will feel the shift in a race set-up auto trans when going balls out.

Most people don't like the harsh low rpm kicking shift feel so they don't run with a manual valvebody so their line pressure is much lower dependant on input shaft rpm.  My manual valvebody has almost max line pressure 24/7 so I feel the buck of a shift at low speeds/low load.


Here is the kicker that has me stumped!

I said, "OK, then why at 7k rpm at WOT I don't feel anything?  The heavy C6 internals are spinning around like mad with a huge load on the trans yet I do NOT feel anything?!?!"

Joe said that at low rpm/low load their isn't much of a "shock absorber", and at high rpm/high load their is a LOT of "shock absorption".  His son said that at low speeds there is much more of a "jerk" when the trans is changing speeds and less of a "jerk" at higher speeds.

Sorry but to my thinking (which obviously is wrong) it would be the other way around!!!



I can literally "feel" what he described to me when I drive the Merc but I can't wrap my head around it.


 :duh


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on March 06, 2014, 03:02:46 pm
My c6 has a Transgo modified manual valve body  I wouldn't say it shifts that hard but would say it is instant when you shift at any rpm.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 06, 2014, 03:14:22 pm
My c6 has a Transgo modified manual valve body  I wouldn't say it shifts that hard but would say it is instant when you shift at any rpm.


Oh mine, too.  At any engine speed my trans now shifts very quickly.  No more flaring nonsense.

The harsh buck shift feel I forgot to say earlier was especially pronounced during the 2-3 upshift.  The 1-2 upshift not so much.


I also forgot to add that this time they drilled 3 more .125" holes in the direct drive drum so that the fluid can drain out quicker so Joe said when I do the 2-3 shift the clutch pack will engage faster.  Which they SURE do!!!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on March 06, 2014, 04:35:18 pm
Mine has all the internals out of a c6 that came behind bbf cobra jet. I have had only one little problem with it and it has this last year over 75 nitrous passes   You should not have any problem with yours


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on March 06, 2014, 07:34:36 pm
To me it seems the bucking should be more noticeable in lower gears.  It's that way with my face plated manual transmission.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on March 06, 2014, 08:07:44 pm
FWIW I rode in a buddy's coupe that had a very modified AOD.  When he would just cruise from a stop it would chirp second.  That trans was built by a very experienced builder.  It was supposed to be that way.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 12, 2014, 04:43:03 pm
So no one can answer in layman's terms why the more power you are applying to a race-prepped automatic (not a manual trans) transmission the less you will feel when it shifts?  And conversely the more you will feel the shift at low power levels going thru the race-prepped auto trans?


("Race-prepped" means a manual valvebody meant for QUICK shifts and a high stalling converter meant for quick acceleration)


 :idea


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on March 12, 2014, 04:47:22 pm
Cause it's F'd up??

Or it can't engage that much power as fast as it can at lower power?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 12, 2014, 04:51:56 pm
Cause it's F'd up??

Or it can't engage that much power as fast as it can at lower power?


No, it's not fucked up.  The C6 trans is performing like it should have when I first got it.  R & R for my application and driving styles I guess.

 ;D



The answer that professionals who are used to auto trans say that there is much more "shock absorption" during shifts at higher power/higher rpm levels than at lower power levels.  I just can't quite YET wrap my head around it in "layman's terms" ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on March 12, 2014, 05:06:52 pm
I have a theory, but it's hard to explain.  Your transmission is setup to shift quickly.  At WOT a quick shift is more in sync with how fast the tires are turning.  During part throttle shifts the quick shift is faster than the tires, so it will chirp the tires and spin them a bit.   :hmmmm:



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 12, 2014, 05:17:42 pm
I have a theory, but it's hard to explain.  Your transmission is setup to shift quickly.  At WOT a quick shift is more in sync with how fast the tires are turning.  During part throttle shifts the quick shift is faster than the tires, so it will chirp the tires and spin them a bit.   :hmmmm:




Yessir!!!      :clap


And not only how fast those tires (the trans output shaft) are/is turning, but MORE SO how QUICKLY it (the trans input shaft) is ACCELERATING ...


 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 12, 2014, 05:40:29 pm
I say "more so how quickly the input shaft is accelerating" because I can do an upshift giving the engine just a little pedal at high MPH speeds and the trans will buck the Merc much harder than if I shift at the same speed yet giving the engine more pedal.


 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: gmatt9858 on March 12, 2014, 05:49:22 pm
WAG. Torque multiplication to the trans output shaft is lower with each successively higher gear. eg; 1st gear transmits more torque output because it's a higher (numerically) ratio than 2nd and 3rd.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 12, 2014, 06:05:18 pm
WAG. Torque multiplication to the trans output shaft is lower with each successively higher gear. eg; 1st gear transmits more torque output because it's a higher (numerically) ratio than 2nd and 3rd.


Maybe for a manual trans?  I don't know about that.


RunningHorse was basically explaining it for a race-prepped auto trans but I wanted to highlight the fact about how quickly the input shaft is accelerating and JUST not it's actual speed at the shift point.

IOW my 2nd to 3rd gear shift is harder than the 1st to 2nd gear shift.  (Although to be fair and honest the internals of a C6 are different as far as how a lever ratio type of arm that tightens a band around the intermediate (2nd gear) drum for the 1 to 2 shift versus a hydraulic powered clutch pack that gets slammed together inside of the direct drive (3rd gear, 1:1) drum while the 2nd gear band is being released to make the 2nd to 3rd gear (final drive) change.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on March 12, 2014, 06:56:40 pm
Think of HP as being bell shaped like most dyno runs.  At WOT at the top of the useable RPM HP range (when HP has peaked and is starting to fall off as RPM climbs) a fast shift will allow the engine to recover at a higher RPM when it falls to the backside of the power band.  If, instead the shift was made before or at the peak, then the engine RPM falls further away from peak and lower in the HP band.  Then it takes longer for the motor to recover to get back to peak hp.

All this comes into play at the track when we try to launch a ludicrous speed and then shift fast at high RPM's as we go though the gears.

This is the same in both automatic and manual transmissions.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on March 12, 2014, 09:47:24 pm
the converter absorbs a bunch


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 14, 2014, 03:57:44 pm
I wonder why WIX recommends that you don't use their 46945R air filter on the street?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 17, 2014, 10:26:19 am
I wonder why WIX recommends that you don't use their 46945R air filter on the street?


Here is their email reply:


"Because a racing air filter lets more air in for more horsepower. With more air comes more dirt. The added dirt will wear the bearings out on a street car and destroy the gears prematurely. Racing filters should be used on racecars and changed every race and not be used on street cars for regular mileage change intervals.
A racing filter sacrifices a little cleaning for more horsepower.
A street filter sacrifices a little horsepower for better cleaning.
 
Do not use Racing filters for street use. 
 
Thank you for your interest in WIX Filters.
Product Information  (800) 949-6698
Mon-Fri,  8:30am-5:00pm, (Eastern)
"


The answer is good enough for me.  I will not be changing the air filter every time I drive the Merc.  So I will of course NOT be using their air filter on my DD street Merc.  Makes sense!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on March 19, 2014, 05:52:04 pm
I read an article a while ago that showed all air filters types tested flowed about the same air and made about the same power after they got some dirt in them from normal driving.  The only benefit I came away with from the article is that some of them you can clean.  After cleaning they were not as good as new but where better than your standard paper filter.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 08, 2014, 05:37:48 pm
I wonder how the Merc would respond to a header upgrade from 1-3/4" x 3" to a 2" x 3-1/2"?  I would be re-jetting the carb for max power after that swap FYI ...


 :wonder:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on April 08, 2014, 07:34:03 pm
Not sure.  Cleveland head guys seem to get great results from larger primary diameters that what is typically thought appropriate. 

A set of headers like you describe doesn't sound cheap.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on April 08, 2014, 08:37:01 pm
I bet your engine will like it. I have 1 3/4" x 3" on my 302 wish I would have got 1 7/8"


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 08, 2014, 09:37:20 pm
Not sure.  Cleveland head guys seem to get great results from larger primary diameters that what is typically thought appropriate.  

A set of headers like you describe doesn't sound cheap.




http://www.accufabracing.com/component/content/article/2-uncategorised/38-exhaust-parts (http://www.accufabracing.com/component/content/article/2-uncategorised/38-exhaust-parts)


BT118?  (The Merc originally had power steering but I took all of that off of it and the steering box is a manual one now, too)

I would also have to purchase an adapter plate it seems for the bolt pattern of BT118 compared to my TFS heads.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 08, 2014, 09:42:57 pm
I bet your engine will like it. I have 1 3/4" x 3" on my 302 wish I would have got 1 7/8"


Look at that Super Victor and 2" of open plenum carb spacers.  Lots of real estate to flow intake-wise.  I'm figuring that the 408W would love to be able to expel the exhaust easier with a larger header and muffler system.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 09, 2014, 12:44:12 pm
So I slept on the exhaust upgrade idea and thought about how much money it would cost to upgrade to the $900 or so headers and then 2 new mufflers and the 3-1/2" piping from the collectors back to the mufflers AND without changing the custom camshaft which was made for my current set-up (1-3/4" x 3" headers) = I think that it would be a LOT of money for not too much of a gain.

Any thoughts?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on April 09, 2014, 01:24:08 pm
A set of slicks and trips to the track sound better


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on April 09, 2014, 02:36:59 pm
Robert maybe flex your welding skills and make your own headers and exhaust?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 09, 2014, 03:15:05 pm
Robert maybe flex your welding skills and make your own headers and exhaust?


I thought about that, too.

Only problem is that the Merc is my only car and the bus sucks.

I'm confident that with working two jobs like I am doing right now that making my own headers would be LOTS of Merc down-time and I'm not too happy about that idea because I don't have much self-time.

The piping from the collectors back to the store-bought mufflers would be my welds like the current set-up is.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 09, 2014, 03:18:17 pm
A set of slicks and trips to the track sound better


A bored out Dart block, cut off shock towers, bigger heads, camshaft and a hidden ProCharger sounds even better to me!

 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on April 09, 2014, 04:09:33 pm
Save the money for a built TKO 5 speed swap.  :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on April 09, 2014, 04:35:24 pm
I think that it would be a LOT of money for not too much of a gain.

Thats the way it gets with everything auto-related once you reach a certain point. There are only so many things that make a big difference.....after that it's big money for SMALL improvements.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 09, 2014, 04:39:47 pm
Save the money for a built TKO 5 speed swap.  :burnout


I joked with Joe about that the other day.  He laughed and said that I would twist the Merc up into a pretzel if I went with a stickshift driving daily the way that I drive.

 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on April 10, 2014, 07:23:25 am
it would definately break driveline parts


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on April 10, 2014, 01:40:29 pm
Just having a little fun with you Robert.  :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 10, 2014, 02:31:10 pm
 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on April 10, 2014, 02:38:05 pm
:party

Even as green as you would be with a stick, you'd probably still shift faster than Nate!  :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on April 10, 2014, 02:59:17 pm
 :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on April 11, 2014, 04:06:14 pm
:party

Even as green as you would be with a stick, you'd probably still shift faster than Nate!  :spit:
You've seen Nate drive? Just kidding Nate


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on April 11, 2014, 05:16:09 pm
:party

Even as green as you would be with a stick, you'd probably still shift faster than Nate!  :spit:
You've seen Nate drive? Just kidding Nate

Don't make me lock this thread!  :orglaugh


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 14, 2014, 12:48:39 pm
Just put the Merc on a scale.


Differences from last time -- has two (instead of one) Optima batteries in the trunk over the right wheel to increase traction and power the starter with a 2/0 cable (the Merc is long) AND a C6 trans instead of a C4.

With a full 22 gallon tank full of fuel it weighs 3770 pounds.  I am 215 pounds.


So the "race weight" is 3985 pounds.





Wow!!!!      ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on April 14, 2014, 01:27:17 pm
Ditch the second battery, lose 50 pounds, don't run more than 5 gallons in the cell...
Wa la.  200 pounds lighter :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on April 14, 2014, 04:40:41 pm

So the "race weight" is 3985 pounds.

Wow!!!!      ;D

Two tons of fun!   :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on April 14, 2014, 05:51:33 pm
Yep lose a battery and less fuel.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on April 15, 2014, 01:07:25 pm

So the "race weight" is 3985 pounds.

Wow!!!!      ;D

Two tons of fun!   :burnout

I knew a girl like that once.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on April 15, 2014, 01:17:13 pm
5gal fuel is only 40lbs. Id have to weigh a battery that might be 50 but Im thinking more like 35


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 15, 2014, 01:26:22 pm
5gal fuel is only 40lbs. Id have to weigh a battery that might be 50 but Im thinking more like 35


I thought that gasoline is 6 pounds per gallon?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on April 15, 2014, 02:46:23 pm
5gal fuel is only 40lbs.
But said he's racing with 22 gallons.  How much is17 gallons ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on April 15, 2014, 02:46:48 pm
5gal fuel is only 40lbs. Id have to weigh a battery that might be 50 but Im thinking more like 35


I thought that gasoline is 6 pounds per gallon?
6.4/gal


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on April 15, 2014, 04:17:44 pm
Probably will not matter on the street. Track is a different matter. Easy to have a 10 second car on the street.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 01, 2014, 12:44:57 pm
Well Jayh was right.  Regular tread tires suck with the Merc.  They spin way easy.  When these wear out I will be putting M/T ET Streets back on again even though they only last me 9 months or so.  The performance difference is large and worth it to me!

I also am getting rid of the Coan v/b.  Sometimes it downshifts into 2nd gear quickly like it is supposed to and other times it takes it's sweet assed time.  Also it's shift timing for the 2nd to 3rd gear is crap, too.

I just got a Broader v/b and will be installing it next week I think.  The Net says that Broader makes the best manual v/b for the C6.  I guess I should have checked into that before I bought the Coan.  Fuck, oops!


 ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on May 01, 2014, 07:00:34 pm
My c6 after 175 passes is finally starting to shift slow. It did sit in the garage for 25yrs . Will be going to Jay Broader next week for full upgrade and trans brake.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on May 06, 2014, 09:40:29 pm
Robert have you installed the valve body yet ? Took my transmission to Jay today spent close to an hour talking to him and checking out his shop. VERY IMPRESSED !!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on May 06, 2014, 09:42:18 pm
Oh and he is the first transmission guy that didn't tell me my c6 sucks lol.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 07, 2014, 03:12:52 pm
Robert have you installed the valve body yet ? Took my transmission to Jay today spent close to an hour talking to him and checking out his shop. VERY IMPRESSED !!


Maybe done this Friday afternoon.     :dunno


I hope that Jay knows what he is doing.  I CONTINUOUSLY have problems with 2-3 shift timing.  My guy Joe has spoken with Jay Broader several times over the telephone about my 3800# Merc and the high power levels of Woody's 408W coupled with my daily driving habits.  Jay made a custom v/b for the Merc.

Jay also sent a sheet that went with the v/b that differs from Joe's previous settings regarding intermediate band adjustments and clutch clearances.  Custom v/b = different settings needed.

I am hoping that with the larger internal orifices in Jay's v/b and different adjustments and clearances that will improve the 2-3 shift timings to get rid of shift flares for a LONG TIME!

I don't personally know Jay but have read great reviews over the Net about him and his shop.

Joe said that Jay is a cool guy from talking with him over the phone.

I know Joe and Joe is a good guy who hasn't given up on me and the Merc.


 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on May 08, 2014, 10:32:18 am
Robert which shifter do you have. I am going to have to get a new reverse patern shifter when I get Trans back.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 08, 2014, 10:46:24 am
Robert which shifter do you have. I am going to have to get a new reverse patern shifter when I get Trans back.


I have the Turbo Action Cheetah SCS shifter.  It is the best one that I have ever owned.  Much better than any B&M shifter from my past.  With the Cheetah you have dedents built into the shift pattern which give you a very positive and firm feeling when shifting.  Excellent!


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tac-70003b/overview/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tac-70003b/overview/)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 09, 2014, 10:54:56 pm
Robert have you installed the valve body yet ? Took my transmission to Jay today spent close to an hour talking to him and checking out his shop. VERY IMPRESSED !!


You will be VERY pleased.

I could tell a BIG difference in how much better Jay Broader's valvebody was compared to the Coan one that WAS in the Merc's C6.  Jay really knows what he is doing.  He made a custom v/b for the heavy Merc and the power of the Merc's engine.  (Thanks Woody!!!)

After every gear change it hits hard shaking the Merc a bit at anything except for WOT.  I LOVE it!!!

At WOT you don't feel it shift but now the Merc's rear end is getting squirrely because it is obviously putting more power to the pavement than ever.  I have to really hold on and counter-steer like never before.

The 1 to 2 shift at 6500 or 7k rpm WOT the tires are up in smoke and the 2 to 3 shift is a slide-show, too.  Holy cow, man!!!


Joe and Mike Piraino and their crew at Westminster Performance Transmission did an excellent job putting it back together again.


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on May 09, 2014, 11:25:42 pm
We will see can't wait to get at the track. Jay seems to think he can get me some et from converter and brake.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 10, 2014, 02:11:17 pm
We will see can't wait to get at the track. Jay seems to think he can get me some et from converter and brake.


From my experience with his v/b I would have to believe his claim!     :)


 :Gluck:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 14, 2014, 11:05:37 pm
http://tmpcarbs.blogspot.com/p/cfm-cubic-feet-per-minute.html (http://tmpcarbs.blogspot.com/p/cfm-cubic-feet-per-minute.html)


Read this and then look towards the CID and carb CFM size chart on the bottom.  Interesting!

According to that they are saying that a 1050cfm carb would optimize my carb needs for my 408W.  I wonder.

Unfortunately it takes some money to find out ...      :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 15, 2014, 12:39:16 am
Oh, I forgot to add that I only rev it to 7000 rpm and that at those high rpm's WOT in top gear my in-car manifold vacuum gauge shows 0.

Plus with my small for N/A 1-3/4" primary headers a 1050 cfm carb instead of the true 850 cfm carb would probably be a waste of money ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on May 15, 2014, 01:26:57 am
I think Nate has dealt with TMP Carbs in the past, I don't think he was too satisfied with the results but I can be wrong.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on May 15, 2014, 08:33:16 am
I think Nate has dealt with TMP Carbs in the past, I don't think he was too satisfied with the results but I can be wrong.

Nate and Troy are best buddies!  :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on May 15, 2014, 02:40:00 pm
I think Nate has dealt with TMP Carbs in the past, I don't think he was too satisfied with the results but I can be wrong.

Troy built an annular booster 4150 with an 850 main body, 950 base plate, and "fully worked" Holley metering blocks.  This was for my old very mild 289 with ported factory heads, Wieand Stealth intake, and probably less than 9:1 compression.  Pretty much a 300 flywheel hp combo.

I went to Troy to get a Holley 4150 double pumper (I was thinking a 750 at the time) to replace the Carter AFB 615 that was on it.  The AFB had had a jetting change which made it run better and I felt it was pretty close for the old combo.  I knew a 4150 would make more power and the Mustang was no longer my daily driver so I didn't care about gas mileage and a choke. 

Left the car with Troy and he calls me back asking if I wanted to come by and feel what my car was capable of with a good carb.  The difference was night and day.  A ton more power from idle up.  Problem was that the carburetor on it was over $1,000 and I didn't want to pay half of that. LOL

Troy then cam up with what at the time would be considered a 1000 cfm Holley (850 sized main body and 950 size butterfly).  It used old school annular boosters which are pretty large so the carb wasn't as big as it sounded.  I believe Troy said he would call it a 900 cfm carb.  That carb had similar power to the other but suffered from a bog when you mashed the throttle.  After several times back to have it fixed (and paying) he made it much better but could never totally get rid of it.

At the track the TMP carb dropped about .5 in ET and picked up an average of 3-4 mph.  One needs to keep in mind that is over a Carter AFB 615.  I think a good 4150 750 Holley HP would have gotten similar results.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on May 15, 2014, 04:18:48 pm
I think Nate has dealt with TMP Carbs in the past, I don't think he was too satisfied with the results but I can be wrong.

Nate and Troy are best buddies!  :spit:

We were buddies at one point.  He was a cool guy that was pretty humble.  All of that changed big time.

He embellished so badly on speedtalk so many times it ticks me off just thinking about it.  I could go on for two pages about it.

Troy does know a thing or two about carburetors.  I understand he is back in Nor Cal now building carburetors again. 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on May 22, 2014, 05:44:48 pm
Robert how's the Trans working ? Mine is at Jays waiting for freshening and updates


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 23, 2014, 12:40:30 am
Robert how's the Trans working ? Mine is at Jays waiting for freshening and updates


It is really good.

With the amount of tire spinning after it shifts I am guessing that the other v/b's did not do a good enough job with their "clamping" force being applied to the clutch packs.

Jay Broader's v/b that was custom made for the Merc is the shittzle!

Now the OEM tire tread material of these M/T 12" wide 30" tall (which are really like 29-1/4" tall) suck on the Merc.

When they wear out further I am going to have to go back to the sticky tread M/T ET Streets to get any sort of traction.


Yes, traction now is THAT bad ...      :o


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on May 23, 2014, 09:46:48 am
Might be time for susp upgrades


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on May 23, 2014, 10:12:42 am
Might be time for susp upgrades

+1

I saw a notable difference just by adding adjustable front shocks to help with the weight transfer.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on May 27, 2014, 04:21:31 pm
Do you have any pics of your bike?

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/grenaldo_87/bike2.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/grenaldo_87/media/bike2.jpg.html)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 27, 2014, 04:48:11 pm
Finally a pic!     :D


Nice looking bike, very clean.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on June 03, 2014, 10:37:19 am
I have always sent my carbs when needed to Nickerson. They perty much started the aftermarket carb set ups like 40 some years ago. Sent may of my boating buddies to them. Better than 90% of thier carbs are never tweeked after installing. C & S built the blow through carbs for my boat motors.

http://www.nickersonperformance.com/

http://www.candsspecialties.com/


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 03, 2014, 03:07:47 pm
I have always sent my carbs when needed to Nickerson. They perty much started the aftermarket carb set ups like 40 some years ago. Sent may of my boating buddies to them. Better than 90% of thier carbs are never tweeked after installing. C & S built the blow through carbs for my boat motors.

http://www.nickersonperformance.com/

http://www.candsspecialties.com/


Miss-post?     :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on July 24, 2014, 11:47:07 am
What Trans fluid are you using in your c6 ?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 24, 2014, 12:15:57 pm
What Trans fluid are you using in your c6 ?


Valvoline non-synthetic.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on July 24, 2014, 01:36:35 pm
Jay wants synthetic in the one he built for me. Will quiz him more in the morning when I pick it up.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on July 25, 2014, 02:41:46 am
Robert, I was wondering where you were.  The post count has been down for a while!  LOL

In all seriousness, are your lady and your ride doing alright?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Cold Aussie on July 25, 2014, 03:07:42 am
I too was worried about Robert! Glad to see he is OK!!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 26, 2014, 07:10:43 pm
Robert, I was wondering where you were.  The post count has been down for a while!  LOL

In all seriousness, are your lady and your ride doing alright?


I too was worried about Robert! Glad to see he is OK!!



Yeah me and mine are doing good.  Thanks.

I am working my regular medical warehouse supervising job, cleaning jumpers after that on weekdays and on weekends especially with the warm summers that OC, CA has I am up to my neck delivering and collecting water slides and jumpers for the children.

I am VERY busy.


 :thanx:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 31, 2014, 12:38:21 pm
I wonder how hard these would be to make to fit between the Merc's shock towers?  The current 1-3/4" x 3" headers are too small.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hok-6228-1hkr/applications/make/mercury (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hok-6228-1hkr/applications/make/mercury)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 11, 2014, 03:17:11 pm
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hok-6228-1hkr/overview/make/mercury (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hok-6228-1hkr/overview/make/mercury)


I want to pull the trigger on those 2" x 3-1/2" headers for the Merc.  I am ONLY hesitant because of I am not sure of how much additional "fab" work I MIGHT have to do to them to make them fit the Merc.  I know how to weld but don't have much free time because of working two jobs and I only have one car, not liking taking the bus.

I looks like they come with adaptor plates.  They would have to fit between the Merc's shock towers, steering and the firewall.

I have already hammered and dented in the Merc's original firewall to make the current Accufab 1-3/4" x 3" headers fit.  The Accufabs work real well but I am sure that I am leaving power and acceleration on the table ...

I called a couple of local companies and they said over $2k for custom built headers for the Merc.      :jawdrop:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 11, 2014, 05:23:07 pm
Robert don't you have more than u can hook up now ?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 11, 2014, 05:48:34 pm
Robert don't you have more than u can hook up now ?


Yes        ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 11, 2014, 07:08:18 pm
I say go for it....if there is a will, there is a way. Anything can fit if you can cut and weld cleanly.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 11, 2014, 07:13:40 pm
I woul do Calverts or Slde link something to help traction. Just my 2 cents


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 20, 2014, 01:05:28 pm
Robert don't you have more than u can hook up now ?


On second thought -- I am thinking that 2" primaries MIGHT kill some TDL (torque down low) and gain some top-end POWER -- which is just what the Merc needs.  On street tires it won't hook worth a fudge!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 20, 2014, 01:48:16 pm
Not with your converter and gears there is no down low.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 21, 2014, 10:30:34 am
Not with your converter and gears there is no down low LOSS.


I fixed it for you!     :orglaugh



I would have to ok a header change with my custom cam designer.  He made the cam for my current combo.  He might say that the gain would not be worth the custom larger headers BOTH work and cost.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 21, 2014, 10:58:12 am
Al2 had it right. Your combo is never in the down low region to know if there is a loss or not.

Now, 3" zoomies is where you need to go  :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 21, 2014, 11:10:27 am
3" zoomies with a fogger


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 21, 2014, 11:16:44 am
Robert was not bad mouthing your combo. With a 5500 converter and 4.56 gears it revs so quick you will not be able to tell you lost low end. But I think 1 7/8 will make more power from idle on up. But is not what your car needs. Just my 2 cents. I like your car. It's a real HOT ROD


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 21, 2014, 12:35:57 pm
Robert was not bad mouthing your combo. With a 5500 converter and 4.56 gears it revs so quick you will not be able to tell you lost low end. But I think 1 7/8 will make more power from idle on up. But is not what your car needs. Just my 2 cents. I like your car. It's a real HOT ROD


Oh no problem.  I consider you a friend.  I was thinking about 2" headers if I was going to spend the coin.  I would have to figure the added width of having to get some adapter plates that would fit to my TFS 205cc heads.


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 21, 2014, 01:38:17 pm
I think 2" will make more power but it will suck getting to plugs and header fit. I want 1 7/8 headers for my 302 but not up to making them fit and plug clearance


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 30, 2014, 10:04:04 am
So "my63" is STILL trying to make himself feel better at my expensive on a different forum, huh?


http://www.toonutsracing.com/smf/index.php?topic=4986.msg68930#msg68930 (http://www.toonutsracing.com/smf/index.php?topic=4986.msg68930#msg68930)


I am sure that I could surprise him with some of the things that I know.

Sure would like to meet him in person.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on September 30, 2014, 11:04:58 am
I've met him when he was visiting family in CA and came out to Irwindale.  He was a very cool and mellow guy that was very willing to help.  He has worked as a crew member on some class racer teams and knows a thing or two about drag racing.  Tim can confirm that he's good people.  Robert, you were invited but couldn't make it buddy.  Maybe this time you can join us. 

I'm sure you would get along just fine in person.  He tends to goof around with people on the internet.  I would take it with a grain of salt.  He can make fun of himself as quick as he can others.

Now if you want to screw with him, you can go over there and post in his topic where his engine came apart in pretty grand fashion.  ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 30, 2014, 01:10:11 pm
Robert what are you doing looking at another forum this is your home


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 30, 2014, 01:29:02 pm
I have to agree with Nate, He is a very nice guy in person and wouldn't hesitate to help someone out. With all things internet, it is a little poking here and there.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 30, 2014, 01:40:38 pm
Robert what are you doing looking at another forum this is your home



 :thumb:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 30, 2014, 01:44:23 pm
I have to agree with Nate, He is a very nice guy in person and wouldn't hesitate to help someone out. With all things internet, it is a little poking here and there.


If you say so.  Tim I met you in person and you seemed to me to be a good man.  I appreciate the good deal on the starter when I was having wiring issues.  It just seems to me that "my63" likes to point out that I am an idiot.  He obviously doesn't really know me.  I am also a very nice dude who will help you if I can or help you find someone who can help you.


 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 30, 2014, 07:14:51 pm
Robert where have you been ? Any up dates on the MERC ? It's cooling off time to update them track times.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on September 30, 2014, 08:01:25 pm
Robert where have you been ? Any up dates on the MERC ? It's cooling off time to update them track times.

Him and me both!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on September 30, 2014, 09:09:00 pm
Schrödinger's cat...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 30, 2014, 11:11:26 pm
Robert where have you been ? Any up dates on the MERC ? It's cooling off time to update them track times.

Him and me both!
It will be 100 this weekend.   It looks like it won't cool down until November.  I loathe this crappy hot weather!!!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 01, 2014, 12:49:14 am
Planning on a trip to Famoso in Bakersfield in November.  Still hot just like Robert said.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on October 01, 2014, 09:17:28 am
We have had a cooler September in the high 80s low 90s. We don't get much spring or fall here in Texas hot or cold it's what we get.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 01, 2014, 10:55:39 am
Whenever I retire it will be to Portland, OR.  Beautiful land and nice people I've heard.  Basically year long great weather.  I don't mind rain.  I am sick and tired of this desert heat, heat and more heat day and night.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 01, 2014, 11:35:01 am
Nice people in Portland? I'm sure there are but ive seen a lot of assholes there just like here.
It is beautiful there, but I CAN'T do the overcast or rain all the time. I need sun, the weather there is depressing.
If you do go up there, the Merc will become more of a fair weather car.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 01, 2014, 12:02:53 pm
Nice people in Portland? I'm sure there are but ive seen a lot of assholes there just like here.
It is beautiful there, but I CAN'T do the overcast or rain all the time. I need sun, the weather there is depressing.
If you do go up there, the Merc will become more of a fair weather car.


Since everything is so expensive and obviously will continue to increase with inflation I am planning on working until I physically can not anymore.

In 25 years or more from now THEY will probably mandate electric cars.  So in that case Portland here I come.

If I can still have the Merc then you, Tim are right in us needing sunshine to have fun with our custom rides.  That is a BIG reason why I haven't left to a cooler climate.  (That and my work is here!)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 01, 2014, 12:44:00 pm
My brother-in-law with all the GTO's and a few other cool cars just moved to what I understand to be the Grant's Pass area of Oregon.  Supposed to be really nice with good people.  Didn't want anything to do with Portland.  Sad to see him go.  Worst part was watching his car trailer go with him.  :duh

Now I've got to buy a car trailer since I've got so spoiled by having his at my disposal.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 01, 2014, 02:05:35 pm
Whenever I retire it will be to Portland, OR.  Beautiful land and nice people I've heard.  Basically year long great weather.  I don't mind rain.  I am sick and tired of this desert heat, heat and more heat day and night.

Maybe we will run into eachother when you retire. Nice people for sure, heck, I am here in Portland so that tells you we are all nice. Rain is not all it is cracked up to be. Yes it rains, but 99 times out of 100 the rain is a sprinkle...easy to deal with. And it's only a couple months out of the year that there is a noteworthy amount of rain. Land is nice if you like to look at green.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 01, 2014, 02:07:29 pm
Nice people in Portland? I'm sure there are but ive seen a lot of assholes there just like here.
It is beautiful there, but I CAN'T do the overcast or rain all the time. I need sun, the weather there is depressing.
If you do go up there, the Merc will become more of a fair weather car.

Overcast and rain all the time is a myth. Definetly ALL nice people, myself included. Everyone here knows that.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 01, 2014, 02:10:43 pm
My brother-in-law with all the GTO's and a few other cool cars just moved to what I understand to be the Grant's Pass area of Oregon.  Supposed to be really nice with good people.  Didn't want anything to do with Portland.  Sad to see him go.  Worst part was watching his car trailer go with him.  :duh

Now I've got to buy a car trailer since I've got so spoiled by having his at my disposal.

It is better to see him go than his trailer? I have been through Grants Pass a few times. Not my cup of tea. No big city near by.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on October 01, 2014, 02:16:46 pm
Robert come to Texas we usually only have 5 or 6 days over 105f and usually cools off at night to mid 90s lol but the people for the most part are great.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 01, 2014, 03:24:38 pm
Whenever I retire it will be to Portland, OR.  Beautiful land and nice people I've heard.  Basically year long great weather.  I don't mind rain.  I am sick and tired of this desert heat, heat and more heat day and night.

Maybe we will run into each other when you retire. Nice people for sure, heck, I am here in Portland so that tells you we are all nice. Rain is not all it is cracked up to be. Yes it rains, but 99 times out of 100 the rain is a sprinkle...easy to deal with. And it's only a couple months out of the year that there is a noteworthy amount of rain. Land is nice if you like to look at green.


That would be cool!  It would be nice to see your van and hear/see more war stories about it.  Believe you me only God knows just how much extra money and self-learning my Merc has seen!     ;D

All of my life I have lived in a desert climate -- very hot, dry and hard soil, hot winds blowing in my face.  My woman has lived for several years in Portland and it's suburbs and she said that it is very nice AND the soil is soft because of the rain.  I can handle sprinkles year long.  I know how to handle the Merc in sprinkles -- DO NOT try this at home but in wet roads with no traffic around I have floored it "a time or two" in all gears just to see what happens.  (It helps having a very heavy car and a long wheel-base!)

My concern would be of the other drivers who don't have wet road condition experience.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 01, 2014, 04:07:33 pm
My brother-in-law with all the GTO's and a few other cool cars just moved to what I understand to be the Grant's Pass area of Oregon.  Supposed to be really nice with good people.  Didn't want anything to do with Portland.  Sad to see him go.  Worst part was watching his car trailer go with him.  :duh

Now I've got to buy a car trailer since I've got so spoiled by having his at my disposal.

It is better to see him go than his trailer? I have been through Grants Pass a few times. Not my cup of tea. No big city near by.

It was a really nice trailer.

I'm joking.  Figured that would be pretty obvious due to how I've spoke about him previously.

He wanted to get away from city life and California politics.  Now all he has to worry about is people trashing his land while illegally growing pot.   :orglaugh


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 01, 2014, 04:09:54 pm
Definetly ALL nice people

How much money are you willing to bet on this.  $50,000?  If so I'm in.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 01, 2014, 04:13:58 pm
Definetly ALL nice people

How much money are you willing to bet on this.  $50,000?  If so I'm in.

My thought is that there isn't much practicality to a bet of this nature since this isn't something that can be proven. There will be no winner, no loser.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 01, 2014, 04:21:47 pm
All of my life I have lived in a desert climate -- very hot, dry and hard soil, hot winds blowing in my face.  My woman has lived for several years in Portland and it's suburbs and she said that it is very nice AND the soil is soft because of the rain.  I can handle sprinkles year long.  I know how to handle the Merc in sprinkles -- DO NOT try this at home but in wet roads with no traffic around I have floored it "a time or two" in all gears just to see what happens.  (It helps having a very heavy car and a long wheel-base!)

My concern would be of the other drivers who don't have wet road condition experience.

Everyone here that drives has wet road experience, no worries there. Definetly soft soil here. Cost of living in NE, NW and SW portland is a little high. SE is cheaper. Once you get a 20 or so miles W of portland, cost of living goes way down. Think Sandy, Boring, Estacada and Corbet. Downside is that it is a long drive to Portland and that can get OLD if you have to do it all the time.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 01, 2014, 04:38:48 pm
Cost of living in NE, NW and SW portland is a little high.


I mean compared to Southern California Orange County where I live now.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on October 01, 2014, 06:03:24 pm
Silly Bean...
You'd only be 3 hours from me in this case...
Portland has a wonderful, yet defunct Road Race track. :naughty:

 :wonder:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 01, 2014, 07:10:42 pm
I base my opinion of the over dozen trips I have made out there at all different times of the year... Every single time, portland area has been like that.... Grants Pass, that has been sunny.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 01, 2014, 09:01:07 pm
Definetly ALL nice people

How much money are you willing to bet on this.  $50,000?  If so I'm in.

My thought is that there isn't much practicality to a bet of this nature since this isn't something that can be proven. There will be no winner, no loser.

All I would have to do is look at crime stats.  Are pedophiles good people?

Just having fun with you since you take things so literally.   ;)

Oregon no doubt has a lot of good people.  My brother-in-law and uncle would be two of them.  You?  OK, you're one too.  :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 01, 2014, 09:07:00 pm
Cost of living in NE, NW and SW portland is a little high.


I mean compared to Southern California Orange County where I live now.

My parents sold my brother-in-law's house here for about $825k.  Bought a place there his is very happy with for about $325k.  Due to the cost of living he told me it's equivalent to a 25% pay increase.  He took early retirement and should be able to live very comfortably there.

I'd leave California in a heart beat.  But I have good family very close to me and love the ocean and fishing here too much.  :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 01, 2014, 11:09:52 pm


I'd leave California in a heart beat.  But I have good family very close to me and love the ocean and fishing here too much.  :)


The Pacific ocean is only a 90 minute drive from Portland ...     :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 01, 2014, 11:13:34 pm


I'd leave California in a heart beat.  But I have good family very close to me and love the ocean and fishing here too much.  :)


The Pacific ocean is only a 90 minute drive from Portland ...     :)

Channel Islands are not that close.  ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: blue04.5 on October 01, 2014, 11:57:30 pm
If you're worried about being relegated to electric cars, Portland is more likely to do it before southern California will.
Beaches in Oregon differ a little from the beaches of CA as well, just my experience. I was born in Sacramento, where the majority of my family still lives, did a lot of growing up in WY and have liked small towns ever since, I need my elbow room. ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: wywindsor on October 02, 2014, 01:03:26 am
You can always come to Wyoming where it can be 100+ on some days and 40 below on others.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Nate_135 on October 02, 2014, 12:48:24 pm
You can always come to Wyoming where it can be 100+ on some days and 40 below on others.

Or western North Dakota. Same weather. upper 90's last Thursday and friday, 40's and 50's this week. Besides, it seems like half the country decided to show up here over the last few years already. Stupid oil and booming economy...   :dunno


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on November 06, 2014, 07:51:44 pm
Robert how's the trans working out now that you have the Broader valvebody ?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on November 07, 2014, 09:42:09 am
Robert how's the trans working out now that you have the Broader valvebody ?


Very well, thanks!

That is why in another thread about the OP asking our advice on who to go to for his C4 I recommended Jay Broader's Performance because we tried many different vavlebodies and they were not right for my power and 4000# race weight but Broader Performance did it very well.

Jay's (Broader Performance) valvebody has enlarged inner-passageways that have been working very well with the Merc.  I have a reverse manual v/b and before with other v/b the 1-2 shift would be somewhat lazy.  With Broader's v/b the 1-2 shift is lightening quick.

It has 2nd gear AND 1st gear engine braking which saves your transmission's sprag.  It is excellent but you HAVE to be careful because if you or some other driver puts it into 1st while going fast you will go thru the front windshield!  LOL!!!


We tried Coan, TCI and one other that I can't remember but they all did NOT work with the powerful and HEAVY Merc.

Jay Broader is THE transmission designer MAN!     :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on November 07, 2014, 11:42:40 am
Great to hear Robert. The C6 with brake he built me has worked flawlessly so far. Got the converter he built for me back but have not had time to install it.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on November 20, 2014, 03:14:42 pm
I will be replacing my upper control arms soon.  Hopefully either Thanksgiving holiday break or Christmas break.  Side-job (kiddie jumpers) permitting.

There are two bolts that hold the arm to the shock tower.  I have the Ford 1969 Car shop manual for my Merc.  It says 100 - 130 ft/lbs.


100 to 130?!?!   Pick a friggin' number?    ::)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on November 20, 2014, 03:27:14 pm
2nd question - for the fastest and safest (are they the same degree numbers for fastest AND safest?) straight line WOT blasts -- what sort of camber do you 1/4 or 1/8 mile track racers set your front-end suspension wheels at?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on November 20, 2014, 03:44:03 pm
100 to 130?!?!   Pick a friggin' number?    ::)

With specs like that, I just split the difference.

what sort of camber do you 1/4 or 1/8 mile track racers set your front-end suspension wheels at?

As close to 0° as possible.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on November 20, 2014, 03:54:29 pm
Remember as the wheels come off the ground Robert the top of the tire goes in. So I set those style 1/4 to 1/2 degree positive if is possible


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on November 20, 2014, 03:57:47 pm


As close to 0° as possible.
While in it's accelerating posture.  And you'd want to verify toe also in that posture.  This maybe not ideal for street.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on November 20, 2014, 04:20:13 pm
So 5 or so degrees of negative camber is bad for my street driving?  I generally go slower around corners and once and in awhile like to do a 0 or 30 to 80 MPH blast ONLY going straight ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on November 20, 2014, 04:23:09 pm
Oh, like 85 GT just said -- in the Merc's accelerating posture.  The Merc's front-end is lifting something fierce -- I am betting that at WOT it is at 0 degrees!  Silly me forgot about stationary loaded down versus at WOT posturing!
 

Nice!!!     :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on November 20, 2014, 04:28:59 pm
Oh, like 85 GT just said -- in the Merc's accelerating posture.  The Merc's front-end is lifting something fierce -- I am betting that at WOT it is at 0 degrees!  Silly me forgot about stationary loaded down versus at WOT posturing!

My car is more or less leveled out by a few hundred feet out. I want my alignment to be true on the other end of the track, at 100+ mph.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on November 20, 2014, 04:34:30 pm
Does having some negative camber help it go straighter because the two front tires are pushing against each other as long as the ground is level?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on November 20, 2014, 04:44:36 pm
There are two bolts that hold the arm to the shock tower.  I have the Ford 1969 Car shop manual for my Merc.  It says 100 - 130 ft/lbs.


100 to 130?!?!   Pick a friggin' number?    ::)

I almost always see torque specs with a min-max like that.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on November 20, 2014, 04:59:24 pm
There are two bolts that hold the arm to the shock tower.  I have the Ford 1969 Car shop manual for my Merc.  It says 100 - 130 ft/lbs.


100 to 130?!?!   Pick a friggin' number?    ::)

I almost always see torque specs with a min-max like that.


What is the point of those min-max numbers?  I thought that they were for different types of bolt ratings, 3, 5, or the 8's.  But from a OEM shop manual the bolt should be the same all around the car?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on November 20, 2014, 05:20:29 pm
Does having some negative camber help it go straighter because the two front tires are pushing against each other as long as the ground is level?
Negative camber doesn't "push" the tires together.
In fact, should be the opposite.  But that's not what camber is used to dial in.  It's for turn handling.

You're talking about castor,toe and bump steer due to bound/rebound of the control arms.

or...

is it Ackerman?

Ugh.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on November 20, 2014, 05:23:31 pm
Robert look at any of the cars on this forum with that style susp mine , Dennis or Mikes as the frt end comes up the wheels go negative camber so you want to start out a little positive. If I recall those old Merc were 1/2 pos camber factory spec and 1 deg pos caster and 1/8 inch toe in. I would do camber at 1/2 pos and caster around 2.0 pos and toe 1/8 in. Juices foxbody he is correct at 0 deg camber. Those susp don't go way neg on acceleration. Hell I aligned these cars when there were a lot of them on the road back in the late 70s


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on November 20, 2014, 06:03:30 pm
Positive caster is what makes the car go straighter at higher speeds.  I use 3 or so and true high speed drag cars can use a little over double that.  At the time if I give mine more the tires will rub the front of the fenders during a turn. . . . .  BTW, changes in caster do not affect tire wear as long as the camber and toe-in are verified afterward.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: BuckeyeDemon on November 20, 2014, 06:17:44 pm

What is the point of those min-max numbers? 

often referred to as tolerance.  the torque wrench isn't perfect.

115 +/- 15 ft-lbs



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on November 20, 2014, 08:11:52 pm
Positive caster is what makes the car go straighter at higher speeds.  I use 3 or so and true high speed drag cars can use a little over double that.  At the time if I give mine more the tires will rub the front of the fenders during a turn. . . . .  BTW, changes in caster do not affect tire wear as long as the camber and toe-in are verified afterward.
Agreed and good post.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on November 20, 2014, 08:38:31 pm
Positive caster is what makes the car go straighter at higher speeds.  I use 3 or so and true high speed drag cars can use a little over double that.  At the time if I give mine more the tires will rub the front of the fenders during a turn. . . . .  BTW, changes in caster do not affect tire wear as long as the camber and toe-in are verified afterward.
Agreed and good post.


With every tire revolution (set up with negative camber) the passenger side will steer the car towards the left and the driver side will steer the car towards the right as I see it.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on November 20, 2014, 08:44:22 pm
What is the point of those min-max numbers?  I thought that they were for different types of bolt ratings, 3, 5, or the 8's.  But from a OEM shop manual the bolt should be the same all around the car?

Most torque wrenches are about 4% accurate. The high-dollar torque wrenches are 1-2% accurate. So the engineers give you a min-max with the idea that you know your tools well enough to be able to properly tighten the fastener with that min-max spec. Nothing to do with bolt grade.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on November 20, 2014, 09:14:45 pm
Robert be sure to check your spring perches if installing upper arms they are usually worn out and you will be right there.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on November 21, 2014, 11:24:33 am
Positive caster is what makes the car go straighter at higher speeds.  I use 3 or so and true high speed drag cars can use a little over double that.  At the time if I give mine more the tires will rub the front of the fenders during a turn. . . . .  BTW, changes in caster do not affect tire wear as long as the camber and toe-in are verified afterward.
Agreed and good post.


With every tire revolution (set up with negative camber) the passenger side will steer the car towards the left and the driver side will steer the car towards the right as I see it.
You setup camber and toe together Robert.  There is no lefty and righty when dialed in.

I would assume you have a good amount of bump-steer, and that would equate to some lefty and righty if not dialed in.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on November 21, 2014, 01:33:25 pm
Robert if you are saying your car want to go one way then the other or follow road grooves bad it is usually worn strut rod bushings in that susp design or worn steering linkage.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on November 21, 2014, 03:10:04 pm
ok, thanks guys


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on November 21, 2014, 03:12:19 pm
too much toe out will make it do that too.  toe is really easy to check with a couple 4 foot levels on sitting on 4 quart paint cans and two tape measures.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on December 07, 2014, 07:23:29 pm
Robert you ok ? Did you get your front suspension figured out ?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 07, 2014, 09:26:53 pm
Robert you ok ? Did you get your front suspension figured out ?
Well my UCA problem is the one that should have been  changed a long time ago has it's 2 shock tower bolts at a 45° angle coming away from the arm but the ones that I bought are parallel with the arm.  It won't fit into the Merc.  I thought that it should swivel some but it is stiff as all!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 07, 2014, 09:42:23 pm
It makes sense the video I just saw where the bushings allow the shaft to swivel freely on the UCA.  The old one from the Merc is very thrashed.  The new ones that I bought are stiff as a board.  No movement whatsoever.

I haven't messed with the Merc's front suspension as far as it's UCA's.  I should have before I know.

This is weird that the new arm is stiff as heck.     :wonder:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on December 07, 2014, 09:47:24 pm
The new ones that I bought are stiff as a board.  No movement whatsoever.

New rubber bushings are usually very tight.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on December 07, 2014, 09:49:46 pm
Loosen bushings some then turn then retighten .. They will loosen after they have been on a while.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 07, 2014, 10:08:00 pm
Loosen bushings some then turn then retighten .. They will loosen after they have been on a while.


From the two large "nuts" on the side of the arm?  They are on hella-tight.  I will have to put it into a table-installed vise.

How tight do they need to be after I re-position the bolts?  Tight as fuck as they came to me like they are now?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 07, 2014, 10:17:35 pm
I just noticed in the pic the old one looks like those huge "nuts" have a line carved into the bevels.  Are they reverse thread nuts?  As in for me to loosen them I will need to turn them CW, and to tighten them CCW?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on December 07, 2014, 10:25:00 pm
Always used 1/2" break over bar and tight. If you have a torque wrench see where they are at. They have to be tight enough they want vibrate loose. Put a mark on the nut and arm and check them after driving to make sure they don't loosen. But I have never had a problem .  Built hundreds of these frt ends in the 70s and 80s when there were a lot of these cars on the road . Be sure to check strut rod bushings to. Moog makes a heavy duty that will make the biggest improvement in drive ability .. Yes the big nuts thread onto the shaft.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 07, 2014, 10:29:28 pm
Do they have regular threads or reverse threads?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on December 07, 2014, 10:40:02 pm
Robert it has been along time since I have did one but I am pretty sure they are standard threads frt and rear. I bet it want take much of a turn to loosen shaft.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on December 07, 2014, 11:11:59 pm
Or just install them on your Merc.  The front end won't have nearly as much trouble as you manipulating them.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on December 07, 2014, 11:18:01 pm
Take old ones apart and you can see how they are pu together. If you put the new ones in a vise you will probably be able to move them


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on December 08, 2014, 12:19:22 am
The 'big' nuts screw in clockwise into the arm with a fine thread on the outside.  But they also screw onto the shaft with a course thread.  It's probably just loaded too tight. Probably a turn ccw one flat will do you.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on December 08, 2014, 12:21:03 am
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=203262&cc=1132489 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=203262&cc=1132489)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on December 08, 2014, 12:34:33 am
Robert,

I just looked at the pic of your uca's again.  Is it just the pic, or are the ball joints in different places/distances from the mounting shaft?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on December 08, 2014, 09:09:26 am
Robert,

I just looked at the pic of your uca's again.  Is it just the pic, or are the ball joints in different places/distances from the mounting shaft?

It does look a bit further inboard than the old one.



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 08, 2014, 10:19:52 am
Robert,

I just looked at the pic of your uca's again.  Is it just the pic, or are the ball joints in different places/distances from the mounting shaft?


It's an illusion in that pic.  I just measured to be on the safe side after reading your post.  From the shaft to the ball joint is 10" on both.

Thanks to everyone for your help.  Much appreciated.

 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on December 08, 2014, 10:27:36 am
It's probably just the 3 bolt vs 4 bolt ball joint.  I remember my falcon had one and the mach had the other.  Forget which was the earlier/later design.  

Always ran into that problem with the 70 falcon.  It was really a 69 carry over vs the torino styled 70 1/2 falcon.  Parts guys always seemed to come up with the later parts that were wrong for mine.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 05, 2015, 05:54:43 pm
So over the Christmas "break" holiday I managed to replace both of the upper control arms on the Merc.  Suspension feels much better and I got crazy with the gas pedal on lunch a bit and it tracks very straight and true.  I am very happy!

I see how Dennis has made some awesome shock tower support brackets work for his Mustang.  I know that his Mustang's front tires see air on his launch and that he races it a lot.

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,30287.405.html (http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,30287.405.html)

My Merc is my DD and it's tires never see air.  I am also careful with speed bumps, railroad track crossings and other "crap" that would put a lot of movement on my front-end suspension (which is HEAVY).

Dennis has manual brakes.  My Merc has a HUGE power brake booster that is in the f'ing way on the driver-side for header work, spark plug work and 'bout any other fun work on that side of the engine bay.

How much do I need to try and fab up some shock tower supports for my Merc?  I can weld and cut fab metal parts.  It would be some work and it would add more weight to the already VERY heavy Merc.

 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on January 05, 2015, 08:22:28 pm
I wouldn't do it. I would convert to manual brakes though...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 05, 2015, 08:45:26 pm
I wouldn't do it.


OK.  That is what I was thinking, too.   :)


I would convert to manual brakes though...


Even though the Merc is 4000 lbs with me driving it?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 05, 2015, 08:50:30 pm
I mean I realize that converting to manual brakes would change the brake "lever" to increase pedal torque action (so to speak) and my legs get weightlifting training weekly so I could stop it quicker than a non-training person.     ;)

Hmmmm.  I would LOVE to get rid of that pesky brake booster that is ALWAYS in the way!!!!


 :question:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on January 05, 2015, 08:51:44 pm
it's tires never see air.

Run around with flat tires much????   :)

Stiffening the chassis is good for both drag and autocross.  My brace is a manufactured piece and it's light but strong by design.

For what you do and how you say you drive your car, I agree that its not worth the $$ and work to build an export brace.  Subframe connectors would be a much better project (if you don't already have them.) 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 05, 2015, 08:52:32 pm
I wonder if I could order the needed stuff to change to manual brakes with disc in front and drum in back from Summit racing?


 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 05, 2015, 08:53:24 pm
it's tires never see air.

Run around with flat tires much????   :)

Stiffening the chassis is good for both drag and autocross.  My brace is a manufactured piece and it's light but strong by design.

For what you do and how you say you drive your car, I agree that its not worth the $$ and work to build an export brace.  Subframe connectors would be a much better project (if you don't already have them.) 


OK, thanks Dennis.  The Merc has had subframe connectors for years now. 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 05, 2015, 09:39:06 pm
Um, I think that we have talked about this in my other thread and it was agreed that my street driving style and the heavy weight of the Merc would make city high traffic driving too dangerous for manual brakes ...



My memory is NOT what it used to be but after I just ate dinner I had this thought/remembrance.


 :P


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 05, 2015, 10:28:16 pm
I would think manual brakes will stop as fast as manual just take more effort. Which shouldn't be a problem for you. My mustang all though lighter than the Merc has manual disc - drum stops like hitting a brick wall.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 05, 2015, 10:29:45 pm
I would think manual brakes will stop as fast as manual just take more effort. Which shouldn't be a problem for you. My mustang all though lighter than the Merc has manual disc - drum stops like hitting a brick wall.


Great, now you two got me started AGAIN!!!   LOL!


Now I just need to find a workable manual conversion "kit" of parts ... that fit the '69 Merc.     :347ho:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 05, 2015, 10:34:47 pm
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/UPR-3008-F-94/1994-04-Mustang-UPR-Manual-Brake-Conversion-Kit (http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/UPR-3008-F-94/1994-04-Mustang-UPR-Manual-Brake-Conversion-Kit)


 :dunno


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: gmatt9858 on January 05, 2015, 11:46:34 pm
I would think that car was available from the factory with manual brakes, so most everything should be available to convert back. I know the master cylinder is, I think there are conversion kits, SSBrakes, AutoKrafters. Finding the correct brake pedal/lever might prove difficult though.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on January 06, 2015, 08:39:05 am
 :+1: for SSBC (http://ssbrakes.com/c-624171-vehicle-specific-products.html)

Top notch stuff. Just don't forget to install AND ADJUST the proportioning valve!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on January 06, 2015, 10:23:10 am
Just pull off the booster and bolt on a manual cylinder.  You're over complicating it... :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on January 06, 2015, 11:00:36 am
and a manual brake rod to the pedal...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 06, 2015, 11:32:04 am
Just pull off the booster and bolt on a manual cylinder.  You're over complicating it... :)


and a manual brake rod to the pedal...


Yep, you are right.  Eckertd helped me with a company local to him that specializes in these old Ford cars and they said that the "hanger, pedal and spring return" are the same with Montegos for both manual and power brake assemblies.

I am now checking to see if the master cylinder that I just had to replace two weeks ago will work AND if O'Reilly's sells the "manual brake rod"  ...    :P


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 06, 2015, 11:37:57 am
When going to manual brakes make sure all brake components are in 100% working order. Caliper Pistons not sticking , wheel cyl , etc


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on January 06, 2015, 11:43:03 am
You need a manual cylinder.  It has a smaller bore to make up for the lack of power assist.

Third item, the brake light switch is different too.  Just in the force required to make the light go on. Simple R&R.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 06, 2015, 12:12:34 pm
From what I am seeing -- only two different master cylinders are offered for the Merc.

One for disc/drum and the other for drum/drum brake systems.  The difference being the reservoir sizes.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 06, 2015, 12:49:41 pm
I just had a thought.

I wonder if it would be more cost effective and easier to just remove the master cylinder and power booster assembly as a whole with the two brake lines connected and just move it a little bit out of the way whenever I need to mess with the headers/spark plugs?

Or even easier just remove the master cylinder with it's brake lines attached a little bit out of the way ...


 :wonder:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: gmatt9858 on January 06, 2015, 01:14:19 pm
On RockAuto:

BENDIX Part # 11484    {#C9OZ2140A, D3OZ2140A} New Master Cylinder  One of our most popular parts
Manual brakes; Rear drum brake 10" x 2-1/2"; Rear drum brake 10" x 2"
Manual brakes; Front disc brake; Rear drum brake 10" x 2-1/2"; Rear drum brake 10" x 2"
Part ImageNext Image
$33.89   $0.00   $33.89


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on January 06, 2015, 01:34:15 pm
I just had a thought.

I wonder if it would be more cost effective and easier to just remove the master cylinder and power booster assembly as a whole with the two brake lines connected and just move it a little bit out of the way whenever I need to mess with the headers/spark plugs?

Or even easier just remove the master cylinder with it's brake lines attached a little bit out of the way ...


 :wonder:

If I recall right, the 68 montego I used for the falcon conversion had an offset bracket for the booster.  You got to the 4 nuts/bolts from under the hood.  The 70 Mach I believe has the 4 studs on the booster and you need to crawl under the dash to remove.  Not sure what a 69 had.  If like the 68 and with some braided lines, NHRA permitting, that wouldn't be so hard.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on January 06, 2015, 02:44:51 pm
I may have missed this...currently drums or discs in the front?



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 06, 2015, 03:05:36 pm
I may have missed this...currently drums or discs in the front?


Disc front/drum back


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 09, 2015, 09:11:35 pm
Do any of you guys run 3-1/2" inlet/outlet street legal mufflers (in a dual set-up)?

If so which ones?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 09, 2015, 09:38:21 pm
I love the sound of my Flowmasters but they only offer race ones in that size (bigger than 3").

I doubt I would notice any increase in acceleration so it wouldn't be worth the money with this current set-up but was just curious for a "future" engine (a Woody built Dart block bored out as far as he thinks would be good {prolly a 460ci 351W based stroker}, a nastier camshaft and a larger carburetor) ...

I gave up thinking about a turbo engine -- my mind is made up that I will be staying N/A for the remainder ...


 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: blue04.5 on January 10, 2015, 02:01:09 am
I don't know how you feel about ultra flos but they are offered in 3.5 and they are round to help with limited space. Borla has some too, but I don't know what you're wanting to spend either.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wlk-17224/overview/


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 10, 2015, 09:27:58 am
I don't know how you feel about ultra flos but they are offered in 3.5 and they are round to help with limited space. Borla has some too, but I don't know what you're wanting to spend either.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wlk-17224/overview/
Thank you, I like those.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 10, 2015, 12:43:32 pm
I don't know how you feel about ultra flos but they are offered in 3.5 and they are round to help with limited space. Borla has some too, but I don't know what you're wanting to spend either.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wlk-17224/overview/


I just ordered a set and some extra parts so I can weld it up at the end of my 1-3/4" x 3" collectors.  I will have unrestricted exhaust past the collectors and no more Flowmasters.  This outta be a bit louder too.  I will enjoy that.

Thank you for your help.     :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 10, 2015, 12:53:33 pm

I doubt I would notice any increase in acceleration so it wouldn't be worth the money with this current set-up but was just curious for a "future" engine (a Woody built Dart block bored out as far as he thinks would be good {prolly a 460ci 351W based stroker}, a nastier camshaft and a larger carburetor) ...



 :party


I was pricing some earlier parts and I almost got up to $600.  I just bought some Ultra Flow's for $222.


 :D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on January 10, 2015, 01:17:31 pm
That is going to be very very loud. It gets old quick...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 10, 2015, 01:22:09 pm
That is going to be very very loud. It gets old quick...


Much louder than the 3" Flowmasters that are on it now?  I doubt that because these Ultra Flows are street legal.  The Flowmasters at WOT are very loud, also.  I like loud, BTW!

 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on January 10, 2015, 01:44:06 pm
That is going to be very very loud. It gets old quick...


Much louder than the 3" Flowmasters that are on it now?  I doubt that because these Ultra Flows are street legal.  The Flowmasters at WOT are very loud, also.  I like loud, BTW!

 :)
disregard. I thought you bought race bullets.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 10, 2015, 01:53:43 pm
 :thumb:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on January 10, 2015, 01:54:56 pm
What are you doing with your old flowmasters?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: blue04.5 on January 10, 2015, 03:07:33 pm
:thumb:
You're welcome. Glad I could help. I'd be interested in seeing a video once you finish it.  :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 10, 2015, 03:58:51 pm
What are you doing with your old flowmasters?


You want them?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 10, 2015, 03:59:33 pm
:thumb:
You're welcome. Glad I could help. I'd be interested in seeing a video once you finish it.  :burnout


OK.  Depending on how busy I am give me a week or two.     :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on January 10, 2015, 06:05:07 pm
What are you doing with your old flowmasters?


You want them?
3"?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 10, 2015, 06:12:30 pm


They are these:  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/flo-943051 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/flo-943051)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on January 10, 2015, 06:39:41 pm
I am thinking of building an exhaust system just for cruise ins. I need something cheap and sounds cool.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on January 10, 2015, 07:04:07 pm
They are these:  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/flo-943051 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/flo-943051)

I am thinking of building an exhaust system just for cruise ins. I need something cheap and sounds cool.

If those three chambers are too long, there is always the knockoff two chambers that several places sell. But they are still kinda loud.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 10, 2015, 07:27:24 pm
I am thinking of building an exhaust system just for cruise ins. I need something cheap and sounds cool.


After I have removed them:  I will take some pics and post them here.  If you like them -- you pay shipping and they are yours, my friend.  (On the 408W and the high stalling T/C with my heavy foot on the gas pedal they sound pretty darn good!!!)


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 13, 2015, 01:24:27 am
I LOVE these new Ultra Flo mufflers.  Sound alone they put the poor Flowmasters to shame IMHO.  They sound very deep and mean -- like I have a 632ci womper motor!

Help me pray that I don't get a noise ticket.  They "say" that they are street legal but they sound a little bit on the edge?!?!  I am going to have to drive much more careful, now ...

Took me 'bout 4 hours to install them after work this evening working on the ground, basically -- had the Merc jacked up a foot or so, though.

So no more restriction -- from the collectors to the pre-axle dumps it is 3-1/2".  I love their sound.  100%.  My cell phone's video sound does NOT do them justice -- you really have to be standing by the Merc to hear the deep sounding raw power!  OMG!!!


https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203597341557530&set=vb.1335414869&type=2&theater&notif_t=video_processed (https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203597341557530&set=vb.1335414869&type=2&theater&notif_t=video_processed)


Blue04.5 -- thank you a LOT!     :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on January 13, 2015, 01:53:41 am
If you have room to get any kind of turndown on, they will quiet it down a little. The longer, the better.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on January 13, 2015, 02:28:18 am
That's an angry beast!  And I see more character on video than pictures. 

Nice ride, Robert.  I see why you love it so much.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on January 13, 2015, 08:08:34 am
That's loud!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 13, 2015, 10:54:48 am
If you have room to get any kind of turndown on, they will quiet it down a little. The longer, the better.


Are you talking about exterior noise?  Because I absolutely LOVE the way it sounds inside.  It does not hurt my ears, either.

But I wouldn't mind quieting what it could sound like to the police.  I am hoping that those turn downs you are talking about won't hurt the exhaust flow because of the sharp degree turn for it's exit.  The whole point of my hard work and $ was to un-restrict these exhaust.  But I also don't want a fix-it ticket, either.   :(

Something like this?:  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wlk-42449/overview/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wlk-42449/overview/)

Also, is the point of them to be pointed downwards towards the ground so that having the exhaust pushed against the ground helps silence it some?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 13, 2015, 12:03:31 pm
Or do they have to be turned towards the ground to make it quieter (because then it will turn up a lot of dirt and dust which will get the under of the car filthy, fast)?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on January 13, 2015, 02:25:10 pm
Turn downs will help, so will a X or H pipe if you don't already have either.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 13, 2015, 02:29:08 pm
I am thinking of building an exhaust system just for cruise ins. I need something cheap and sounds cool.


After I have removed them:  I will take some pics and post them here.  If you like them -- you pay shipping and they are yours, my friend.  (On the 408W and the high stalling T/C with my heavy foot on the gas pedal they sound pretty darn good!!!)


 :burnout


They are around 8 years old.  They are functional but kinda looked thrashed.  Offer still goes if you want them.  It is up to you.  I see that your work on your rides looks top notch and these would probably look out of place with your stuff.   ;)


P.S.  My flux cored wire feed welding has improved since then ...      ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 13, 2015, 04:31:04 pm
I just took it around a LONG block and I am so pleasantly surprised.  Interior at idle and low speeds/low gas pedal is louder than exterior.

My coworkers said that it is somewhat louder but they don't think it will get me a ticket.

I got into a good location and floored it for about 5 seconds.  It is a much different animal.  It is CRAZY loud but I love it.  Not like it but LOVE it.

So I won't have to touch it anymore thinking that I would be able to afford 4 digits of HP with a turbo system.  (I won't.  I have accepted that and am happy!)

It won't ever get quieter.  Inside the Merc it sounds like I just put a different and MUCH more powerful engine in it.  Such a deep monster sound it fools my head into thinking that I have 4 figures of HP.  I won't be able to go WOT at my leisure like I used to.  Oh no -- because floored it sounds like open headers!   :)

That "forbidden" feeling just like if I had 1600HP and had to be very careful where and when I could get crazy with the gas pedal I am feeling right now.  For a different reason but both can get you a nasty ticket.  The high HP can kill someone much easier but a loud car can get you a noise violation ticket.


If I am somewhat mellow with the gas pedal and keep it under 3000 rpm it is OK for the street but it sounds so MUCH better even driving it slowly that I am very happy NOW.


 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 14, 2015, 09:27:02 am
I can't remember who but I do remember a couple of different times a few members here would warn me about Flowmaster exhaust versus a straight thru design muffler.

I should have listened to you guys earlier.  That is for sure.  This is how the 408W'd Merc should have sounded like all along!!!

Sound and performance-wise these straight thru DynoMax Ultra Flo mufflers are the bomb.  Looking down it (I got the bullet looking style, not the case type) it looks like a straight pipe.

Thank you all.     :)


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on January 18, 2015, 02:43:36 am
Robert, I'm glad for your progress.  I think the sound equals an ET drop and MPH gain with the appropriate tuning.  Keep enjoying your bad to the bone street machine!  :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 18, 2015, 09:55:52 am
Robert, I'm glad for your progress.  I think the sound equals an ET drop and MPH gain with the appropriate tuning.  Keep enjoying your bad to the bone street machine!  :burnout



Of course I adjusted the carb to help the Merc "realize" the help in getting the "old out and the new in" (old being exhaust gases and new being A/F) just got easier with no more restriction after the collectors.

I love the Merc -- I am just more careful flooring it because between all of us here from the outside the Ultra Flo mufflers look like a muffler but looking down inside of them they look like a straight pipe with a fancy cover on the outside and sound like open headers when I floor it!      :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 19, 2015, 09:37:30 am
What are the best numbers for the Merc at the 1/8 mile track as far as toe-in, camber and caster?

(I think that you guys said 0* of camber)



Thanks, guys!     :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 19, 2015, 10:00:34 am
Both tires 1/8" of "inside" toe-in?

What about caster?


(Like I said earlier I go easy on corners -- I just like to floor it going straight!)     :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on January 19, 2015, 10:22:46 am
At least 2.5* positive caster.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 19, 2015, 12:07:57 pm
At least 2.5* positive caster.


What would be the upper positive limit for the caster? 

So my recollection of 0* of camber and 1/8" of inside toe-in is good for the best straight-line rompin' control?


Thank you, Dennis.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on January 19, 2015, 06:23:28 pm
0* (preferred) to -1/2* camber and 1/16" toe-in would be about the best you can have for straight line racing.

Since caster has little to no bearing on tire wear you can use as much as you want but it will make steering harder with more degrees .    Four degrees would be a good start and 5 to 5 1/2* would be about the most I would use on a street/strip car although you can dial in more if that is your desire and if you have enough adjustment.  


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 20, 2015, 09:34:12 am
Thank you, Dennis.  Got is aligned and it makes a good difference in how it acts.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 04, 2015, 04:02:19 pm
I just noticed that the rubber "snubbers" on the Merc's traction bars are worn out and rotted/cracked from the  weather.

The length of the traction bars are good.  IOW the point of contact between the rubber snubbers is right under the where the front-end of the leaf springs are attached to the frame.



I was wondering if anyone else has thought about "replacing" the rubber stoppers with some re-inforced steel of equal length as the length of a brand new rubber stopper?  (Won't wear out and won't compress under WOT load!)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 04, 2015, 04:48:33 pm
I was wondering if anyone else has thought about "replacing" the rubber stoppers with some re-inforced steel of equal length as the length of a brand new rubber stopper?  (Won't wear out and won't compress under WOT load!)

It used to be somewhat common, when traction bars were the thing for leaf springs. I don't remember the last time I seen it done though.

You can get polyurethane replacements in various lengths.

With the success of the newer designed systems, slapper bars have kinda fell by the side. They just don't get much attention any more.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 04, 2015, 05:05:07 pm
I was wondering if anyone else has thought about "replacing" the rubber stoppers with some re-inforced steel of equal length as the length of a brand new rubber stopper?  (Won't wear out and won't compress under WOT load!)

It used to be somewhat common, when traction bars were the thing for leaf springs. I don't remember the last time I seen it done though.

You can get polyurethane replacements in various lengths.

With the success of the newer designed systems, slapper bars have kinda fell by the side. They just don't get much attention any more.


Thank you.  I have in the past just ordered the same-o black rubber ones that only last me a year or so.

The red polyurethane ones look better.  I will order some now.


 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 04, 2015, 05:21:01 pm
Oh.  I just noticed that the red polyurethane ones are the smaller version.

No problem.


I have some angle-steel bars that I will weld up to replace the wasted rubber stoppers.  I have always wanted to try this so here it goes.

 ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 04, 2015, 09:08:50 pm
So I did it after work today.  Took me about an hour.

I removed the worn rubber snubbers.  I made up some steel with some 2-inch wide "angle-iron" pieces that I had lying around.  I made them up so that I added a 1/4" of pre-load on the rear suspension.  Just enough to continuously keep them in contact with the leaf suspension eye and not too much so as to not stiffen the suspension up too much.

I tried it out launching from a new green traffic light and it makes the Merc launch straight and true and it keeps on movin' in that way.

I am very happy about it.  Works better than the rubber type for rear axle control on acceleration manuevers and also keeps the Merc driving very straight when I floor it.  Plus won't have to replace them every year anymore!


 ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on February 05, 2015, 12:27:21 am
I'd ask about NVH, but this is the Merc.    :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 05, 2015, 07:48:22 am
I'd ask about NVH, but this is the Merc.    :spit:


Ha!   :)

During my drive home afterwards I didn't notice any other added noises or vibrations coming from the rear suspension upgrades.


You are right, the Merc does have them, though!  The deep sound of the new dual 3-1/2" Ultra Flows' that are dumped before the axle make the entire interior of the Merc have a (to me) wonderful sound!  You should be inside of it when I floor it!!!!

 ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 05, 2015, 12:11:48 pm
Shot of the rear!  (The Merc's of course! LOL)      :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on February 05, 2015, 12:27:18 pm
just an FYI, may never be an issue with your limited driving, but each time one wheel hits a bump and not the other, the bar will be twisting or rather torquing the whole housing.  May eventually fatigue the metal or welds near the center section.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 05, 2015, 12:39:14 pm
just an FYI, may never be an issue with your limited driving, but each time one wheel hits a bump and not the other, the bar will be twisting or rather torquing the whole housing.  May eventually fatigue the metal or welds near the center section.


You are talking about the two axle housings that are welded to the center section?


Is that the same with a ladder bar set-up?  Or the CalTrac set-up?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on February 05, 2015, 01:04:13 pm
You'll be twisting the whole housing between the springs.  It's all one housing but yes the welds at the center section.  Ladder bars too.  That's why they're not really meant for a full time street car.  There could be plenty that have run them without issues.  But not sure if they're just weekend cruise night cars.  Just like running spools.

Don't know about cal-tracs.

You'll probably will be fine, it's just another thing to inspect now and then like ball joints/control arms, etc.

Basically, anything that is all solid, joint wise will put some stress on something as your axle needs to move in all different planes.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 05, 2015, 01:06:21 pm
You'll be twisting the whole housing between the springs.  It's all one housing but yes the welds at the center section.  Ladder bars too.  That's why they're not really meant for a full time street car.  There could be plenty that have run them without issues.  But not sure if they're just weekend cruise night cars.  Just like running spools.

Don't know about cal-tracs.

You'll probably will be fine, it's just another thing to inspect now and then like ball joints/control arms, etc.


Thank you for the ideas to consider.


What could I do to strengthen it?

Would a anti-sway bar there help?  Or make it worse?


I am 100% open to good ideas, thanks!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on February 05, 2015, 02:08:51 pm
Nature of the beast.

Everything you mentioned would help. 
Sway bars to help keep both sides in unison.
There are weld-on back braces for acceleration forces.  It tries to bend the housing end forward on hard acceleration.  I'm sure they would help too.

Other is give it a little room for flex.  Maybe shorten the piece and put a small snubber on the end.  Like a swaybar/ shock absorber puck.

Be good to get real life experiences and the type of driving they do.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2015, 07:54:57 am
Thanks 85_GT -- I just ordered this from Summit.


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aco-965 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aco-965)


I already have a 1-1/8" thick Addco sway bar up front on the Merc so in a week or so I will have a matching set.  Should be the ticket!  (Not a speeding ticket, that is ...)


 ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on February 08, 2015, 11:21:37 am
Get a feel for it first.  It'll make it more tail happy.  But with the big rear tires and small fronts, they'll help cancel that.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2015, 01:13:04 pm
Get a feel for it first.  It'll make it more tail happy.  But with the big rear tires and small fronts, they'll help cancel that.


"Tail" happy?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on February 08, 2015, 02:05:29 pm
Oversteer.  The rear will want to swing out on you.  As in taking a turn fast even without giving it gas.
But you probably were understeer biased with your tire combo.  So you just might be more neutral now.  Just get the feel slowly.  Be safe!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 13, 2015, 04:50:33 pm
It took me a good amount of hours yesterday but I have the rear sway bar installed.  I sure got greasy!

Weird but for me and my style of driving the rear seems more of a part of the entire car so it is more controllable.  No more quick surprises.  I am happy with it's added performance and also when I floor it the car doesn't put all of the weight on the right rear tire only but it lifts the car in more of a straight line.  Keeps me going straight easier.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 15, 2015, 06:38:12 pm
I traded my 4" tall air filter for a 3" paper filter that is 14" in diameter which enabled me to get rid of a mistake I had made in using a "drop-down" air filter base.  I looked at my set-up when I was replacing the year-old air filter and realized my boo-boo.  A drop-down base is a no-no.  It makes the air slow down in making some serious bends trying to get into the combustion chamber.  That hurts power and most importantly acceleration!


So as you can see in the pic below the Merc's air cleaner assembly sure does sit HIGH now.      :rock


That is why I had to spend this Sunday's morning customizing a taller "hood scoop" section on the hood with my welder, grinder and some fresh glossy Rustoleum white paint.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 15, 2015, 06:57:36 pm
If it's made right, a drop base will have a smooth radius to the carb. I have one of the round track types, it has a very good radius. However, I have seen some units that were horrible.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on February 15, 2015, 07:35:04 pm
I did that test years ago with a pretty healthy 357 cid Windsor. I tried various diameter, type and style of open air elements. I think it's 1 fast cat was there. Anyway...the one that turned out to be the fastest was a dual snorkel 85 GT cleaner with a k&n filter and the cold air tubes into the fender. It was more than a tenth faster than anything else. We saw no real measurable difference between drop base, standard height, 3 and 4" filters etc...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 15, 2015, 10:00:35 pm
I did that test years ago with a pretty healthy 357 cid Windsor. I tried various diameter, type and style of open air elements. I think it's 1 fast cat was there. Anyway...the one that turned out to be the fastest was a dual snorkel 85 GT cleaner with a k&n filter and the cold air tubes into the fender. It was more than a tenth faster than anything else. We saw no real measurable difference between drop base, standard height, 3 and 4" filters etc...


Zoom in on the pic.  Maybe you can see it or not?  It is a 1-1/2" tall black round ring that sits between the carb top and the bottom of the flat/standard air filter base.  Talkin' about the Merc's "air velocity" stack!  Do you realize just how high that entire "intake" assembly is sitting off of the engine?


 ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on February 15, 2015, 10:21:14 pm
My car no air cleaner , no hood , drop base air filter, and filter lid never made any difference in ET. But my air is in a bottle !


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 16, 2015, 01:31:18 am
Robert, a correctly made drop base air cleaner and lid should help the air transition into the carburetor cleaner helping the air bleeds and boosters to function more accurately.  Having said that, my car ALWAYS runs fastest (sometimes by .2) with the air cleaner off.  I never run an air cleaner at the track anymore.  But, on the street I run a drop base with a nice radius and bell shaped top. 

Fabricating a ram air system would likely be cheap and pay off on a combo like ours.  :yes:  Been meaning to try it but have put it on the back burner for some reason.  :dunno 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on February 16, 2015, 11:04:59 am
"ram" air won't work as well as cowl inducted.
I personally didn't see any benefits with "ram" air till after 130mph in > 80°f air.

"cowled" air will see large volume and good pressure at lower speeds.

NO, you still won't win any races vs me Robert...   so offering you experience is justified...    :347ho:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 16, 2015, 02:36:48 pm
NO, you still won't win any races vs me Robert...   so offering you experience is justified...    :347ho:

LOL!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 16, 2015, 03:26:42 pm


NO, you still won't win any races vs me Robert...   so offering you experience is justified...    :347ho:


Oh my, strong is the ego in this one!!!     ;D


The Merc has been waiting for you, sir.  I have upgraded it's suspension, front-end and it's breathing capabilities with a large exhaust system and I have re-worked it's intake system, too.

When you ever arrive here the Merc WILL surprise you and no I am not going to show you a new ET slip.  It will be a surprise to you.

Believe it ...     :347ho:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on February 16, 2015, 03:49:46 pm
NO, you still won't win any races vs me Robert...   so offering you experience is justified...    :347ho:

LOL!

As it stands right now. The Merc is faster than Dana!  ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: garsten on February 16, 2015, 04:28:54 pm

When you ever arrive here the Merc WILL surprise you and no I am not going to show you a new ET slip.  It will be a surprise to you.


you have more than 3 time slips?

claude


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 16, 2015, 04:38:01 pm

When you ever arrive here the Merc WILL surprise you and no I am not going to show you a new ET slip.  It will be a surprise to you.


you have more than 3 time slips?

claude


It would need a 5 point roll-bar.  Not going to happen.       ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 16, 2015, 04:42:26 pm
My ego is big, too.      :D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 24, 2015, 07:48:44 pm
 Now I am finally doing the leaky headers all of the way.  On the Merc they are a super fuck PITA.  Doing driver side the hardest first.  What sort of "glue" can I use to "fasten" my cut copper gaskets to the pipes?  It has to hold very strong because I have to ram them up from the bottom of the jacked up to the sky Merc and anything wimpy or liquid will fall/smear off against the tight fucking fit ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 24, 2015, 07:51:37 pm
Slot the bolt holes. Get the tubes loosely bolted, then slide the gaskets in from top.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 24, 2015, 08:10:01 pm
Slot the bolt holes. Get the tubes loosely bolted, then slide the gaskets in from top.

You are the MAN!  Thank you.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 24, 2015, 08:43:54 pm
Slot the bolt holes. Get the tubes loosely bolted, then slide the gaskets in from top.


I looked closely at the pic that I posted about this (I am at home now away from the Merc) and I was wondering if I slot the gasket's bolt holes by removing the area directly below the hole so that I can drop the gaskets into place from above the header will that create a leak at that area because the gasket's bolt holes' inner sides are VERY close to the port area ...


 :o


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 24, 2015, 08:47:33 pm
The outer holes on many gaskets are already that way. Several factory gaskets are the same way.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 24, 2015, 08:52:07 pm
The outer holes on many gaskets are already that way. Several factory gaskets are the same way.


As in this -- so remove everything between the red lines?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 24, 2015, 08:53:43 pm
Yep.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on February 24, 2015, 09:43:06 pm
If you can get the second bolt in afterwards IOW only one bolt each, you can slot just one hole to drop in and then line up for second bolt.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 24, 2015, 10:10:05 pm
I wonder how would be the best way to slot those individual copper gaskets?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 24, 2015, 10:30:13 pm
Maybe my cut-off saw in a vice?  (Unless I can borrow a "band" saw)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: blue04.5 on February 24, 2015, 10:33:13 pm
What about tin snips, or would that put to much of a wrinkle in your gasket?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 24, 2015, 10:35:17 pm
What about tin snips, or would that put to much of a wrinkle in your gasket?


I don't know.  Never done this.  This is the first time that I have chopped up the header flange to make them all individual.  Before I could never get all of the friggin' bolts in all the way so this time I am going to do each one and make sure they do NOT have any leaks, anymore.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 24, 2015, 10:41:54 pm
IOW I am going to need good control so I don't mess them up.  Not sure if I can exercise that control with my cut-off saw.


 ::)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on February 24, 2015, 11:13:30 pm
Robert on my accufabs I used Allen head bolts then got an Allen wrench with a ball end. Cut it off and stuck it in a 1/4" socket. Gave more room to get to the bolts. Might help.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 25, 2015, 09:49:09 am
IOW I am going to need good control so I don't mess them up.  Not sure if I can exercise that control with my cut-off saw.


 ::)


That is why I am going to fasten the saw to my vise.


Robert on my accufabs I used Allen head bolts then got an Allen wrench with a ball end. Cut it off and stuck it in a 1/4" socket. Gave more room to get to the bolts. Might help.


Thanks for the idea.  I have those and will be doing that as soon as I modify the headers gaskets.     :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 25, 2015, 10:40:35 am
Like this.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on February 25, 2015, 11:28:27 am
I think you'd be better off with a dremel with thin cut off wheel for such an operation...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 25, 2015, 01:16:03 pm
I think you'd be better off with a dremel with thin cut off wheel for such an operation...


Thank you for looking out for me.  I was very careful and wore coated gloves holding the pieces with both hands CAREFULLY so I didn't burn and/or cut my fingers.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 25, 2015, 01:16:45 pm
 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 25, 2015, 01:17:36 pm
I did not cut into the relief pad area of the gasket (got close but no boo-boo) so it will not leak!!!


 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 25, 2015, 02:19:16 pm
Another thing to avoid leaks.......ARP studs, nuts and washers. NO BOLTS!!! Especially with aluminum heads. Thats my advice.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 25, 2015, 02:38:36 pm
Another thing to avoid leaks.......ARP studs, nuts and washers. NO BOLTS!!! Especially with aluminum heads. Thats my advice.


With the Merc's configuration studs would not allow enough room to get the headers on.  Believe you me it is a total PITA to install/remove the headers as is with bolts.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 25, 2015, 03:32:46 pm
Another thing to avoid leaks.......ARP studs, nuts and washers. NO BOLTS!!! Especially with aluminum heads. Thats my advice.


With the Merc's configuration studs would not allow enough room to get the headers on.  Believe you me it is a total PITA to install/remove the headers as is with bolts.

I'm in the same boat Robert.  I HATE screwing with headers.  Think I screwed up some of the threads last time I bolted them up.  :duh


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on February 25, 2015, 03:43:08 pm
Another thing to avoid leaks.......ARP studs, nuts and washers. NO BOLTS!!! Especially with aluminum heads. Thats my advice.


With the Merc's configuration studs would not allow enough room to get the headers on.  Believe you me it is a total PITA to install/remove the headers as is with bolts.

I'm in the same boat Robert.  I HATE screwing with headers.  Think I screwed up some of the threads last time I bolted them up.  :duh

We have all done that Nate.  Helicoils are a wonderful thing!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 25, 2015, 03:59:51 pm
Studs have always made things EASIER for me because the header flange slides onto the studs. No having to hold the header with one hand start the bolt with the other.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 25, 2015, 04:43:16 pm
Studs have always made things EASIER for me because the header flange slides onto the studs. No having to hold the header with one hand start the bolt with the other.

We understand that.  The problem is the headers have no room to slide onto the studs.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Antti66ht on February 25, 2015, 05:25:01 pm
Yep. Wanna try studs with 66 mustang and 408w... 3mm space...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 25, 2015, 08:18:11 pm
I would NEVER install headers onto ANY cylinder head with bolts unless there was no way around it. If I were forced to use bolts, I would definitly have heli-coils professionally installed into the heads prior to assembly of the engine. I think it is smart to do that even with studs. Thats what I did with my 347.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on February 25, 2015, 11:07:52 pm
Try it with a vintage car and let me know when you're ready to set it on fire!  lol

I have wondered this myself though.  IDK how long the studs are, but you could thread them in after lining up the header flanges just like with a bolt.  Then go back and use nuts and lockwashers to secure them.

Anyone ever try it on a vintage car?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 25, 2015, 11:19:28 pm
I have the driver's-side installed and finished.  Drove it home and it does not leak from the driver's-side.  Does not move when I pulled on the collector.  I am very happy.  The hard work and patience has once again paid off!

Thanks to Juice and you others who have helped me with your ideas and suggestions.

In a few weeks I will tackle the passenger side in the same new way that works that I just learned.


 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 25, 2015, 11:23:29 pm
Why will I wait for a couple of weeks to fix the other side you ask?

Because last Friday I started taking the driver's-side header off but had to stop to finish my cash-paying-jobs.

That Sunday afternoon I accidently dropped a 40 pound air blower motor on my left foot's big toe and man oh man did it HURT like HELL!!!

Here is a pic of my blood-engulfed-swollen big toe.  It is getting better some and I am grateful that the bone is not broken.  So I had to hobble around to finish that header so I could drive the Merc back and forth to work but it was painful!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 25, 2015, 11:42:58 pm
That Sunday afternoon I accidently dropped a 40 pound air blower motor on my left foot's big toe and man oh man did it HURT like HELL!!!

Well that blows!!!..............................



Sorry, couldn't resist.



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 26, 2015, 10:52:17 am
Try it with a vintage car and let me know when you're ready to set it on fire!  lol

I have wondered this myself though.  IDK how long the studs are, but you could thread them in after lining up the header flanges just like with a bolt.  Then go back and use nuts and lockwashers to secure them.

Anyone ever try it on a vintage car?

I have done this on vintage and modern. Some of the nicer studs have a countersunk allen in them and it aids in doing this. I can't picture a situation where one can't do this OR start the studs first then slide the header on OR a combination of the two.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 26, 2015, 12:37:35 pm
Try it with a vintage car and let me know when you're ready to set it on fire!  lol

I have wondered this myself though.  IDK how long the studs are, but you could thread them in after lining up the header flanges just like with a bolt.  Then go back and use nuts and lockwashers to secure them.

Anyone ever try it on a vintage car?

I have done this on vintage and modern. Some of the nicer studs have a countersunk allen in them and it aids in doing this. I can't picture a situation where one can't do this OR start the studs first then slide the header on OR a combination of the two.


What size nut are you talking about?  On the Merc's 1-3/4" headers there is BARELY enough "area" to get a SMALL bolt head in there tight.  I can only imagine getting the "flats" on a nut tight on your studs ...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on February 26, 2015, 01:42:21 pm
For way back in the day, I discover the aerospace industry has some cool fasteners.  That's where I found some very narrow wall 12 point nuts.  Probably the same as these 12 point flange nuts.



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 26, 2015, 02:16:50 pm
My preference is 12 point nuts. The advantage being that the OD of the nut is only one size up from the diameter of the threads. IE, the threads in the heads for the headers is 3/8.....the 12 point nut takes a 7/16 wrench or socket which is nice. The downside is that the wrench/socket has to go all the way around it and sometimes there is not enough space between the primary tube and the nut for that. In that case a 6 sided nut must be used. Downside is that it is bigger (1/2 inch in this case) but the upside is that an open ended wrench can be used so no need to go all the way around it.

I used 15 12 point nuts and 1 6 sided nut on my 347.

ARP makes nuts that look just like the pic 85gt posted.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 26, 2015, 02:37:18 pm
The bolts that I used have 3/8 heads, and I still had to grind a couple of them for clearance.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 302ute on February 26, 2015, 05:33:35 pm
z-adamson, You have obviously never worked on an early mustang or falcon......if you can put studs in there, and then slide the headers in and onto the studs, you got some magic superpower shit and I want me some of that!!!!!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on February 26, 2015, 07:07:00 pm
z-adamson, You have obviously never worked on an early mustang or falcon......if you can put studs in there, and then slide the headers in and onto the studs, you got some magic superpower shit and I want me some of that!!!!!

You obviously never read all that I said. One can thread the stud in as though it is a bolt....then put on the nuts and washers, in some/most cases.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on February 26, 2015, 08:47:03 pm
Try the Allen head bolts I can get all but thee out with a 1/4 cordless rachet and the socket I made from a ball end Allen wrench. With header bolt near impossible to install.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 26, 2015, 09:52:21 pm
z-adamson, You have obviously never worked on an early mustang or falcon......if you can put studs in there, and then slide the headers in and onto the studs, you got some magic superpower shit and I want me some of that!!!!!

You obviously never read all that I said. One can thread the stud in as though it is a bolt....then put on the nuts and washers, in some/most cases.


What made everything much easier installing the header for me and the Merc was cutting up the header flange bar to make each primary pipe completely "individual" from the others ... once Juice taught me about how to install the header gaskets the header went on easier and much tighter than ever.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on February 27, 2015, 12:54:28 am
z-adamson, You have obviously never worked on an early mustang or falcon......if you can put studs in there, and then slide the headers in and onto the studs, you got some magic superpower shit and I want me some of that!!!!!

You obviously never read all that I said. One can thread the stud in as though it is a bolt....then put on the nuts and washers, in some/most cases.

I thought I said that... :hmmmm:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 302ute on February 27, 2015, 06:46:30 pm
And if you can fit nuts and washers in there with the standard 2" bolt pattern , your headers are proabaly too small !!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 04, 2015, 12:54:26 am
With the exhaust, cam, heads, torque converter, tires, intake assembly, carb and etc = look at that medium to top end power!!!


Can you see it?     ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on March 04, 2015, 07:13:00 pm
Robert the Merc is sounding good.  Glad to see you're still chipping away at it.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 04, 2015, 07:51:44 pm
Robert the Merc is sounding good.  Glad to see you're still chipping away at it.


Thank you.  I am pleased with it at the moment.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on March 04, 2015, 11:08:32 pm
Damn, Robert.  It looks like your running garden hoses to the float bowls!  LOL


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Ammosteve on March 05, 2015, 07:27:56 am
Push lock hose just looks big...it's probably -8 hose.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 05, 2015, 09:36:37 am
Damn, Robert.  It looks like your running garden hoses to the float bowls!  LOL


Push lock hose just looks big...it's probably -8 hose.


Yep, it is big in my neck of the woods.  It is 1/2" I.D. (not O.D.!) fuel hose all the way to the carb's fuel bowls.  Most people cinch down to 3/8" going into the carb.  Not the Merc.


 :naughty:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 16, 2015, 02:14:14 pm
Speaking of "rich" -- does anyone care to post here some pics of their spark plugs that have a lot of camshaft timing overlap?

I would appreciate that.  It appears to me that I am running too much timing (34*) from the ground strap and too rich.

IIRC I didn't fool with the carb's jets but I think that the running engine's float levels are too high even though they say to have them at half of the sight glass window.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on March 16, 2015, 02:57:00 pm
You need new plugs with very little idle time on them, and a WOT blast to use that method. Road miles and idle time muck up the results.

Lots of racers will push/tow to the burnout box before cranking. Then shutdown at the finish line, and tow back to the pits. You don't even want to know how many plugs you go through when tuning a big nitrous car, but the words "buy in bulk" come to mind.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on March 16, 2015, 04:20:21 pm
Speaking of "rich" -- does anyone care to post here some pics of their spark plugs that have a lot of camshaft timing overlap?

I would appreciate that.  It appears to me that I am running too much timing (34*) from the ground strap and too rich.

IIRC I didn't fool with the carb's jets but I think that the running engine's float levels are too high even though they say to have them at half of the sight glass window.

So basically, you don't know how to tune your carb?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 16, 2015, 04:26:49 pm
Speaking of "rich" -- does anyone care to post here some pics of their spark plugs that have a lot of camshaft timing overlap?

I would appreciate that.  It appears to me that I am running too much timing (34*) from the ground strap and too rich.

IIRC I didn't fool with the carb's jets but I think that the running engine's float levels are too high even though they say to have them at half of the sight glass window.

So basically, you don't know how to tune your carb?


Might have something to do with the overlap in my camshaft.  Just playing around with some ideas in my head.  Further education in the real world.  Tuning carbs?  The Merc doesn't stumble/bog at all in the winter nor the summer.  I can mash down the pedal at any speed in any gear and it roars off and pulls tough.

Just wondering about a few things that might make it even faster SAFELY.     ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 16, 2015, 05:00:45 pm
So basically I need to learn more about reading spark plugs with a N/A engine/heavy car/DD for a safe yet powerful tune on a carb including ignition timing.

The DD of course has to spend lots of time at idle and cruise with some brief instants of WOT.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 16, 2015, 05:06:53 pm


So basically, you don't know how to tune your carb?


When I first read that from you I thought, "you SURE are something ELSE!!!"     ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on March 16, 2015, 07:49:42 pm
Just be sure they dont ever accuse you of being a street racer... Since that crash that killed 2 people in the valley.... Cops have Zero tolerance and are throwing the book at people...
All im saying is becareful


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on March 16, 2015, 08:09:31 pm
Might have something to do with the overlap in my camshaft.  Just playing around with some ideas in my head.  Further education in the real world.  

So basically I need to learn more about reading spark plugs with a N/A engine/heavy car/DD for a safe yet powerful tune on a carb including ignition timing.

Just wondering about a few things that might make it even faster SAFELY.     ;D

So what you are saying now is that you know nothing about the merc's engine?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on March 16, 2015, 08:30:16 pm
Robert pump gas also makes it harder to read plugs


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 16, 2015, 09:29:51 pm
Just be sure they dont ever accuse you of being a street racer... Since that crash that killed 2 people in the valley.... Cops have Zero tolerance and are throwing the book at people...
All im saying is becareful


Exactly, I totally agree.  I do not race anyone anytime anywhere on the street, be it on a light or rolling along doing 40mph.

It is way too dangerous because there are so many different cars/bicyclists/pedestrians around at any time.  And even at 3am the police show zero tolerance so I do not want to lose my license and Merc.



Haven't heard from you in awhile.  Good to read your post.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 16, 2015, 09:31:39 pm
Might have something to do with the overlap in my camshaft.  Just playing around with some ideas in my head.  Further education in the real world.  

So basically I need to learn more about reading spark plugs with a N/A engine/heavy car/DD for a safe yet powerful tune on a carb including ignition timing.

Just wondering about a few things that might make it even faster SAFELY.     ;D

So what you are saying now is that you know nothing about the merc's engine?


Yes.  I had thought this whole time that it was a torque down low monster disguised as a diesel/turbo motor for pulling kiddie jumper/bouncer/water slides all around LA and OC counties!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 16, 2015, 09:34:45 pm
Robert pump gas also makes it harder to read plugs


Saturday I got a nasty head cold -- sore throat and a sneezing nose.  Now it is a small fever/headache/into my lungs some.

The driver's side headers are all welded up (with the primary pipes separate at the flange) and bolted up with no leaks.

The passenger side headers are all welded up (with the primary pipes separate at the flange) and need to be bolted up to the head.  Didn't have time nor energy to finish it this weekend.  Too damn hot, too.

Maybe tomorrow after work I will feel better to finish it up.  Or Wednesday.  Then I am going to put in some new plugs and I am going to pay closer attention to spark plug detail.



Thanks for the good ideas, guys.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 17, 2015, 09:57:14 am
Might have something to do with the overlap in my camshaft.  Just playing around with some ideas in my head.  Further education in the real world.  

So basically I need to learn more about reading spark plugs with a N/A engine/heavy car/DD for a safe yet powerful tune on a carb including ignition timing.

Just wondering about a few things that might make it even faster SAFELY.     ;D

So what you are saying now is that you know nothing about the merc's engine?


Let me put it back together.  I will post a new video and you can be the judge of that ...      :whistling:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 17, 2015, 12:17:18 pm
I think that I am going to try the NGK plugs.  IIRC Juice said that they are what he uses.  I thought that I have read somewhere that the NGK ground strap is easier to read for ignition timing with pump gas?

So going from an Autolite #3924 to a NGK would be a what number NGK?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on March 17, 2015, 12:39:38 pm
I think that I am going to try the NGK plugs.  IIRC Juice said that they are what he uses.  I thought that I have read somewhere that the NGK ground strap is easier to read for ignition timing with pump gas?

So going from an Autolite #3924 to a NGK would be a what number NGK?

http://www.autolite.com/media/11841/racingcrossref_0.pdf

FR5


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 17, 2015, 12:40:33 pm
Thank you my friend.  Hope it isn't so friggin' cold in your area now.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on March 17, 2015, 12:46:34 pm
Thank you my friend.  Hope it isn't so friggin' cold in your area now.

Depends on your definition of cold.  58F now, but the rest of the week we'll be in the low 40s, with overnight lows around 27 to 31F. Sure beats highs in the single-digits and teens, but it sure ain't Bradenton!  ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: garsten on March 17, 2015, 02:11:26 pm

Let me put it back together.  I will post a new video and you can be the judge of that ...      :whistling:


zac's judgement is suspect at best.

cheers, claude


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on March 17, 2015, 03:03:42 pm
Claude speaks with much wisdom!  ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on March 17, 2015, 04:13:15 pm

Let me put it back together.  I will post a new video and you can be the judge of that ...      :whistling:


zac's judgement is suspect at best.

cheers, claude

If it is as bad as you seem to think it is, my judgement that is, then why have I been so successful with my 347 tow/cargo hauler van? I have had fewer problems and more success than just about everyone here with my project despite so many telling me that it would fail prematurely.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 17, 2015, 04:41:18 pm

Let me put it back together.  I will post a new video and you can be the judge of that ...      :whistling:


zac's judgement is suspect at best.

cheers, claude

If it is as bad as you seem to think it is, my judgement that is, then why have I been so successful with my 347 tow/cargo hauler van? I have had fewer problems and more success than just about everyone here with my project despite so many telling me that it would fail prematurely.


Because you are rude!      :wtf:


But seriously, how many miles does that van of yours have?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: garsten on March 17, 2015, 05:55:29 pm

 I have had fewer problems and more success than just about everyone here with my project despite so many telling me that it would fail prematurely.


your judgement is suspect because so many people have given you enough crap about your van that you have trouble posting with any objectivity.

you question Nate as to why he is doing what he is doing, you accuse Robert of knowing nothing about his car.

i am glad the internet was not around 40 years ago.  i'd have to admit i was more argumentative then than you are now.

if Robert posted a video of his car, you might post something negative simply for the sake of being negative.

several years ago, i upset dana with a post and he suggested i apologize, which i did not and will not do.  but since then i have decided that it is better to post something positive.  and if i can't do that, i don't post a thing.

just my point of view, cheers, claude


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on March 17, 2015, 06:40:46 pm
Robert NGK plugs are cheap at Rock Auto


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on March 17, 2015, 08:14:34 pm
Because you are rude!      :wtf:


But seriously, how many miles does that van of yours have?

About 60,000.

What is so rude about asking if you know anything about tuning a carb and your engine? I simply asked if that was what you were saying since thats what it sounded like you were saying.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on March 17, 2015, 08:31:04 pm
But seriously, how many miles does that van of yours have?
About 60,000.

This engine? Or total, since 1988?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on March 17, 2015, 08:35:41 pm

Let me put it back together.  I will post a new video and you can be the judge of that ...      :whistling:


zac's judgement is suspect at best.

cheers, claude

If it is as bad as you seem to think it is, my judgement that is, then why have I been so successful with my 347 tow/cargo hauler van? I have had fewer problems and more success than just about everyone here with my project despite so many telling me that it would fail prematurely.


Because you are rude!      


I'm glad you see through his bullshit Robert. Keep doing what you are doing, it obviously works well for you judging by the Merc's performance.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on March 17, 2015, 08:53:27 pm
But seriously, how many miles does that van of yours have?
About 60,000.

This engine? Or total, since 1988?

The engine.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on March 18, 2015, 06:46:32 pm
I am around. Just lurking, working like crazy.... Been a crazy year for me anyways. Got married in July, Got hit off Chapman and Knott on my way home, totalling my truck, got a new Eco Boost f150, baby due in September, put in an offer on a house on Sunday, Accepted on Monday...
All kinds of busy I tell ya, lol.
Hope your doing well.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on March 18, 2015, 08:26:10 pm
LOL Z is a tool. Suspect judgment, how about you telling me my driveshaft wouldn't work. Oh yeah the one that I have been running for over a year with wheels up 9 and 10 second  passes and a World Championship.

Your van is still together because you are a turtle. But congrats that is what you were over building it to do.

Bam

 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on March 18, 2015, 08:28:25 pm
Sorry for the rant Robert.

Bam


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: wywindsor on March 18, 2015, 08:44:11 pm
Thanks Claude, I need to remember this more often. Still owe you a beer.


several years ago, i upset dana with a post and he suggested i apologize, which i did not and will not do.  but since then i have decided that it is better to post something positive.  and if i can't do that, i don't post a thing.

just my point of view, cheers, claude


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 18, 2015, 09:38:57 pm
Just read a thread about a tool that Joel was showing that works.

The other day I was putting the 3rd to last spark plug in after working all day the normal job and was too tired to think correctly and had been working for another couple of hours getting the f'ing headers back on so I ended up over-tightening this spark plug which broke off inside of the head.

It turned out to come out very easily with this number 6 EZ Out tool for me on the Merc.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 18, 2015, 09:39:37 pm
 :whistling:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 18, 2015, 09:40:18 pm
 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 18, 2015, 10:35:10 pm
Click on the picture just below!!!     :burnout


(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/th_11067296_10203989621204276_1480881592_n.mp4) (http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/11067296_10203989621204276_1480881592_n.mp4)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on March 18, 2015, 10:43:22 pm
Your wiring still gives me nightmares.   :hide1:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 18, 2015, 10:47:56 pm
Your wiring still gives me nightmares.   :hide1:


Yikes, LOL!


That video I took three hours ago after putting it back together.  It is the meanest sounding ride that I have heard lately except for that 632ci dual turbo that rocked my eardrums at Irwindale awhile back.  Seriously.

The Merc in person (my cellphone recording doesn't do it justice) is crazy loud and sounds like it REALLY means business!


 ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on March 18, 2015, 10:56:36 pm
Sounds great Robert


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on March 18, 2015, 11:19:04 pm
That engine sure rocks a lot! What mounts do you have Robert?


Nice sunshade on the tach!  :drink


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 18, 2015, 11:57:33 pm
That engine sure rocks a lot! What mounts do you have Robert?


Nice sunshade on the tach!  :drink


I just noticed that, too.  I am going to have to look at the "welded" solid engine mounts.  Always something!!!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on March 19, 2015, 07:07:35 pm
LOL Z is a tool. Suspect judgment, how about you telling me my driveshaft wouldn't work. Oh yeah the one that I have been running for over a year with wheels up 9 and 10 second  passes and a World Championship.

Your van is still together because you are a turtle. But congrats that is what you were over building it to do.

I never said it wouldnt work. I said that the length didn't look right, which it wasnt right at all. You however, failed to mention that you were using billet shims to make up the difference and thus attain proper spline engagement. You did not tell the whole story up front and an important piece of info was missing...thats your fault, not mine.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on March 19, 2015, 10:21:39 pm
Just an observation Z, I'm guessing either your'e not married or you have an entirely different personality around your wife.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 19, 2015, 11:15:11 pm
Just an observation Z, I'm guessing either your'e not married or you have an entirely different personality around your wife.


Exactly.  I know from experience that a married man can NOT take that attitude with his Queen or it will NOT last.  No way, Jose!  "Give and take" (equally) in so many different forms and meaning of those three words.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 19, 2015, 11:16:37 pm
I am around. Just lurking, working like crazy.... Been a crazy year for me anyways. Got married in July, Got hit off Chapman and Knott on my way home, totalling my truck, got a new Eco Boost f150, baby due in September, put in an offer on a house on Sunday, Accepted on Monday...
All kinds of busy I tell ya, lol.
Hope your doing well.


Sorry about your truck but it sounds like you are OK.

Congrats on your new wife and your other great news about looking for a home and awesome on your upcoming baby.

Bless you.  I am doing well and I am very grateful for what I have.


 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on March 20, 2015, 12:24:27 am
Guys, let's take the personal shots to the Lounge.  Start a topic there and have it out.  I believe it will be much more productive.



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on March 20, 2015, 02:39:35 am
You're right Nate.  The "that's you're fault not mine" comment got to me.  I have no desire to continue an argument.  

Back to your ride Robert.

What engine mounts are you considering?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 20, 2015, 11:10:16 am
You're right Nate.  The "that's you're fault not mine" comment got to me.  I have no desire to continue an argument.  


Sounds good to me.



Back to your ride Robert.

What engine mounts are you considering?


I had earlier (when I installed Woody's nasty 408W in the Merc) welded up a steel bar to my existing OEM engine mounts.

The 408W develops SOOOO much power that it had a break about a 1/2" away from the bolt that goes into the engine block on the mount.

So last evening I had welded an additional 1/8" thick steel bar around that away welding the fudge out of that assembly.  It works!    :D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 07, 2015, 09:57:53 pm
http://www.afrplus.com/AFRplus-unit-functionality.asp (http://www.afrplus.com/AFRplus-unit-functionality.asp)


In that example -- what do they mean as in the performance difference between "best rich TORQUE" versus "safe best POWER" for N/A engines?

Both are talking in terms of flat-out WOT.

As in how they have shown the two terms of torque versus power in a WOT episode.

Very interesting ...     :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on April 07, 2015, 11:05:08 pm
I know that the AFR that makes the best dyno power is normally too lean at the track for best performance.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 08, 2015, 09:56:06 am
In my example link -- what is the performance WOT difference between AFR's 11.5 and 12.2?

Why do they use the two terms of "torque" versus "power" when they are discussing WOT blasts?

Does that make sense?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 09, 2015, 04:25:27 am
In my example link -- what is the performance WOT difference between AFR's 11.5 and 12.2?

Why do they use the two terms of "torque" versus "power" when they are discussing WOT blasts?

Does that make sense?


It does make sense.  (This is for n/a engines).

What they mean by "torque" is low rpm acceleration.  Their "power" is high rpm acceleration.

If the AFR is basically constant at WOT runs and if 12.2 A/F is roughly the best AFR for best high rpm acceleration then anything richer than 12.2 has too much fuel left over after burning all of the oxygen in the combustion chamber.  Being the AFR remains almost constant at WOT then this extra fuel (at over 12.2 A/F) doubles in quantity from 2k rpm to 4k rpm and doubles again at 8k rpm.

That is a lot of extra fuel which increases in actual quantity as engine rpms climb.

Hence they are saying that 11.5 AFR is the best for low end rpm acceleration.  And they claim to have found that 12.2 is the best safe AFR for high rpm acceleration.  Just a little bit of extra fuel to make certain that all of the oxygen has been used.  And a little extra to cool things down to help stave off detonation.

So for example if I have the Merc's carb tuned to give me an AFR of 11.5 then it is great to take it off from a stop especially because it is soooo heavy but once I am at 4k rpm or higher than I am actually losing a little bit of acceleration speed gains because the extra fuel is taking up space and cooling things down more so than a leaner AFR.

How much faster would the Merc be at an AFR of 12.2?  Only the track would tell me.  At a leaner mixture detonation is "closer" than at a richer mixture.  And the added "cushion" of if I get a weak tank of fuel even though it is supposed to be 91 octane.  A heavier ride is more prone to detonation because it presents a higher load on the engine.

Hot weather year round long like the crap that I experience here in Southern CA also does not help with detonation.




With my timing at 34* and a heavy ride coupled with this nasty hot weather I like the Merc at 12.0 AFR at WOT.       :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on April 11, 2015, 08:28:51 am
I think you have too much timing


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 12, 2015, 10:36:51 am
I think you have too much timing


Please explain in more detail your reasoning.


We weigh 4000 pounds.  The plugs showed no signs of detonation.  The Merc is perkier at 34* compared to 32* or 30*.  The Merc is REAL heavy.

True the Merc is putting a lot of load on the engine because of being so heavy yet it is more responsive at 34* of timing yet does not detonation is my reasoning.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on April 12, 2015, 12:07:04 pm
Everyone needs to understand what the stoich is of what ever fuel they are using. Most premium E10 fuels have a stoich of 14.00-14.17, so take .850 of that gets you 11.90- 12.04 a/f for a good starting point at WOT.  Some engines may want more fuel around the torque peak, maybe in the .830-.840 area to prevent going lean. Now that we mentioned knowing your fuel to set up your tune, you need give the engine what it wants regardless of what the 02 sensor says.

A little info for timing, overly rich a/f  needs more timing to burn the fuel resulting in less power compared to LBT fuel needs. Overly lean a/f(stoich for example at wot) at wot needs more timing than LBT fuel. Your LBT a/f will need the least timing. This is why leaning or richening the fuel can result in detonation if you don't know your tune.

Example below

Lean WOT 13.20 may want 36 degrees - less torque/hp.
LBT(12.00?) may want 32 degrees - most torque/hp.
Rich 10.50 rich air fuel may want 38 degrees - less torque/hp.

Weather can change timing requirements also, good air needs less timing, bad air needs more timing.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on April 12, 2015, 12:29:51 pm
That is a very informative post Bill.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 12, 2015, 07:29:11 pm
Since I have been in the process of leaning out my WOT striving for some better acceleration -- so you two are saying to drop 2* of timing, huh?    :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on April 12, 2015, 07:37:05 pm
Without times, you're just guessing... just saying...  Forget it 'feels'  good...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 12, 2015, 07:43:09 pm
Without times, you're just guessing... just saying...  Forget it 'feels'  good...


Several times Jayh has said that he thinks I have too much timing.  I have tried to get a reason "why" he thinks that ...


My "butt-meter" has seen a few different rodeos ... yet I do agree with you that it is no match for the final word of the track.    ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on April 12, 2015, 07:44:11 pm
Robert what cylinder heads are on it?.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 12, 2015, 07:44:53 pm
Robert what cylinder heads are on it?.


T.E.A. cnc'd TFS 205cc heads with 10:1 SCR.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on April 12, 2015, 08:17:34 pm
28-32 degrees, back it off to 32 degrees to start with.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 12, 2015, 08:36:07 pm
OK, thank you, Bill.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 13, 2015, 09:50:05 pm
I guess enlarging and upgrading my exhaust changed stuff more than I realized.  The Merc definitely liked dropping 2* of timing.  You said start at 32*, mentioning between 28* - 32*.  I set it at 32* @ 3000 rpm.  With the distributor's springs all of the timing is in at 2000 rpm.  At higher rpms it retards a little.  Over 6500 rpm it retards even more to 28*.  Very cool, thank you!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on April 13, 2015, 10:52:16 pm
Robert, what distributor are you running?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 13, 2015, 11:25:04 pm
Robert, what distributor are you running?


It is a Pertronix Flamethrower II.  It has no vacuum advance but does have mechanical advance.  I replaced it's springs with some really light copper Moroso springs where everything is all in by 2000 rpm.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on April 14, 2015, 07:19:00 am
Larger or more efficient exhaust system could mean less residual left in the cylinder, so if that's the case less timing would be needed.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 14, 2015, 09:41:12 am
Larger or more efficient exhaust system could mean less residual left in the cylinder, so if that's the case less timing would be needed.


Yes, thanks Bill, and yes I am saying it -- thank you very much Jayh I finally listened to you.  (With some help!)


 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on April 14, 2015, 03:08:07 pm
Larger or more efficient exhaust system could mean less residual left in the cylinder, so if that's the case less timing would be needed.


Yes, thanks Bill, and yes I am saying it -- thank you very much Jayh I finally listened to you.  (With some help!)

All this time jayh tells you to use less total timing and you ignore/question it and outlawbill says it and you take his advise right away. What is wrong with taking jayh's advise? Why did it have to come from outlaw before you would take away some timing?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 14, 2015, 03:16:05 pm
Larger or more efficient exhaust system could mean less residual left in the cylinder, so if that's the case less timing would be needed.


Yes, thanks Bill, and yes I am saying it -- thank you very much Jayh I finally listened to you.  (With some help!)

All this time jayh tells you to use less total timing and you ignore/question it and outlawbill says it and you take his advise right away. What is wrong with taking jayh's advise? Why did it have to come from outlaw before you would take away some timing?


Hurry up and bring that motorcycle of yours so we can race before they shut down Irwindale.

I have in the past tried dropping 2* or even 4* of timing and the Merc did not like it.  I like to hear reasoning behind someone's ideas.  It worked this time BECAUSE I did some more work on the Merc to enhance it's breathing capabilities.

 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on April 14, 2015, 05:41:53 pm
I don't know of anyone here with the experience Outlaw Bill has.  If he suggests something you need to take it very seriously.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on April 14, 2015, 07:37:14 pm
I don't know of anyone here with the experience Outlaw Bill has.  If he suggests something you need to take it very seriously.

Yeah, Bills profession gives him better insight on engine dynamics than most others. Not taking anything away from Jayh. But I'd listen to Bill before I would a lot of people. Including money bags 289nate!  :orglaugh


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 14, 2015, 08:27:49 pm
Yep!








(On another tangent -- of course they do NOT allow cars to race motorcycles at the track.  If the Merc "let go" it would squish a rider against the concrete walls ...)


 :duh


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on April 14, 2015, 08:40:47 pm
Yep!








(On another tangent -- of course they do NOT allow cars to race motorcycles at the track.  If the Merc "let go" it would squish a rider against the concrete walls ...)


 :duh

Can't say that would be a bad thing in this case!  :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on April 15, 2015, 12:42:34 am
Just meet up on the way to your work Robert.  I know you don't street race, but if you just both happen to be testing your rides in the same area, direction and time...  :whistling:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 16, 2015, 10:37:06 am
The Merc is good and fast for me, now.

I leaned WOT out to 12.5 A/F.  It seems to like it and I believe that it is faster.  Sure revs up nasty fast.  I will not be going any leaner.

I am happy!     ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on April 16, 2015, 12:35:36 pm
Is that actual air/ fuel or Lamda value?. Most pump e10 fuels are 11.9-12.10 for .850 Lamda, non e10 pump gas is 12.5 at .850.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 16, 2015, 12:42:58 pm
Is that actual air/ fuel or Lamda value?. Most pump e10 fuels are 11.9-12.10 for .850 Lamda, non e10 pump gas is 12.5 at .850.


I have an "AEM air/fuel ratio" gauge.  I think that it is displaying A/F ratio.  Not sure how it is exactly getting this?  It is a wideband O2 sensor in the header right after the 4-pipe merge.

The Merc is quicker at 12.5 versus it's old 11-8/12.0 AFRs -- and remember I have taken 2* off of ignition timing.  (Whether or not anyone else believes this that is up to them I can tell a positive difference.)

It does run 10* hotter but that is expected because I now believe that I was running it too rich before (the plugs have confirmed that as well).

Thank you, indeed.    :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on April 16, 2015, 01:44:54 pm
How is the gauge calibrated?.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 16, 2015, 02:12:05 pm
How is the gauge calibrated?.


http://aemelectronics.com/files/instructions/30-4100%20Digital%20Wideband%20UEGO%20Gauge.pdf


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on April 16, 2015, 02:42:24 pm
Email AEM and ask if they have a cal for e10 fuel. I'm guessing the 12.5 would be about 12.05 with the e10 cal.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 16, 2015, 03:16:18 pm
Email AEM and ask if they have a cal for e10 fuel. I'm guessing the 12.5 would be about 12.05 with the e10 cal.


IIRC it was shipped to me with an e10 fuel calibration pre-set.  I will email them to verify this though, thank you.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 16, 2015, 07:38:31 pm
From my racing annular QFT 850cfm carburetor I have dropped the secondary jets from 84's to 80's yesterday.  That has gotten me "12.5 AFR" at WOT.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on April 16, 2015, 08:29:47 pm
If you have the E10 cal in the AEM, you need to shoot for 12.05-12.15, since stoich is in the 14.05 to 14.20 range. Non E10 gas is 14.6-14.7 for stoich. The best way would be to play with jetting at the track or on a chassis dyno.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 05, 2015, 03:20:52 pm
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/Enzo%20Ferrari%20quote.jpg) (http://s610.photobucket.com/user/sixtyninemercury/media/Enzo%20Ferrari%20quote.jpg.html)


I like his quote.  Funny how beautiful today's Ferraris are.  The Merc may not be pretty but it is a MONSTER in sound and performance!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 18, 2015, 04:54:25 pm
The 1969 Merc Montego MX's that year came with several different engine combos.  I have the 351W-based SBF engine in there now with OEM placement exhaust ports with TEA TFS 205cc heads.

The 1969 Montego's also had FE engines 390 and 427ci, too.

According to this those FE engines are 2" wider than the 351W: 

http://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/EngineDimensions.html


Got me thinking about just how a 9.5" deck SBF engine with some LARGE High Ports would fit in the Merc's present engine bay ...


 :wonder:





Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 22, 2015, 11:08:02 pm
The 1969 Merc Montego MX's that year came with several different engine combos.  I have the 351W-based SBF engine in there now with OEM placement exhaust ports with TEA TFS 205cc heads.

The 1969 Montego's also had FE engines 390 and 427ci, too.

According to this those FE engines are 2" wider than the 351W: 

http://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/EngineDimensions.html


Got me thinking about just how a 9.5" deck SBF engine with some LARGE High Ports would fit in the Merc's present engine bay ...


 :wonder:






Does anyone have any ideas about that?  IOW how much more would some High Ports with a "skinny" adaptor plate stick out?  Would it be more than an inch on each side?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on June 22, 2015, 11:13:49 pm
You might need a custom set of headers at that point Robert. 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on June 23, 2015, 09:24:22 am
You might need a custom set of headers at that point Robert. 

This is an interesting way of doing things...

http://www.stainlessheaders.com/customheaders


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on June 23, 2015, 08:35:38 pm
Robert does your engine have Pistons with both style of reliefs ?  If not TW race might be an option.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 23, 2015, 10:41:23 pm
Robert does your engine have Pistons with both style of reliefs ?  If not TW race might be an option.


I would have to look the invoice up that Jim Woods made for me.  I currently have the TW 205cc heads.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on June 23, 2015, 11:50:02 pm
You might need a custom set of headers at that point Robert. 

This is an interesting way of doing things...

http://www.stainlessheaders.com/customheaders

So in New Jersey, interesting is slang for obscenely expensive?   :jawdrop:

Jk, I know custom headers can be expensive, but DAMN!  They shouldn't cost as much as the transmission they wrap around.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on June 24, 2015, 04:24:55 am
Yeah, the cost caught my eye.  I'm sure that there is someone in Southern California that can do a bang up job cheaper and better.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on June 24, 2015, 10:32:26 am
Took me 32 hrs to fab my headers.
Take 8 hrs off because a professional does it, and you have 24 hrs.
24 hrs X $85.00 is $2040.00
Add the cost of stainless = $175.00

I really don't think paying $1800.00 to $2500.00 is "out of the ballpark"...  especially with 2" primaries or bigger.  The real estate becomes an issue with the fatter pipes very quickly...  hence the funky bends I had to do to make room.



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on June 24, 2015, 11:06:22 am
$2000 is not unheard of for a custom set of headers and can be a bit more if you also include merge collectors, coatings O2 bungs, EG temp bungs.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on June 24, 2015, 11:27:51 am
Yeah, but I'm not paying for it unless I win the lottery.  lol

I can think of at least ten things off the top of my head where two grand+ would be better spent on my car.  But for the guy who has everything...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 24, 2015, 02:44:59 pm
At this very moment -- to me the expense would not justify the gain for this current engine.

I am thinking about the "future" Dart based larger SBF stroker engine.  As always I appreciate everyone's ideas and the sharing of your experiences.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on June 29, 2015, 01:47:20 pm

So in New Jersey, interesting is slang for obscenely expensive?   :jawdrop:

Jk, I know custom headers can be expensive, but DAMN!  They shouldn't cost as much as the transmission they wrap around.

Everything in NJ is obscenely expensive.  :bang

I kinda like their pvc mockup rig. Over-engineered a bit? Sure.

Interesting model though, you mock it up and lock it in place, then send it to them and they build it.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 19, 2015, 07:56:44 pm
So yesterday I finally was able to make some time to do something for myself that I enjoy instead work, work work for other people.  Mod the Merc some more.

After many failings at carb manner corrections by ignition timing changes, carb changes and almost everything else over the years -- I finally realized that a 160* thermostat for the carbed Merc is not cutting it.

So I installed a hi-flow 180* thermostat and the difference is night versus day.  I am very pleased with it.  I will not go any hotter.  The mornings and also the first 2 mile drivings are much improved.  The carb's manners are much better.  I know that many racers/street drivers swear by the 160* thermostat but for my Merc that is too cold.  It prefers a 180*.

Within 3 minutes the coolant temp gauge climbs to 200* and then opens -- quickly dropping the temp to 170*.  Then within another 'bout 30 seconds it steadies itself at 180* to 185*.  

I am happy.     :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 19, 2015, 09:07:21 pm
Always fun when you do something to the car and it makes a positive difference.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 22, 2015, 10:18:15 am
Put on some new M/T ET street radials.  Makes a huge difference.  Won't ever go back to normal tires again.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 22, 2015, 10:21:36 am
 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 22, 2015, 10:22:29 am
 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on December 22, 2015, 11:18:58 am
Good to see you're still alive and kickin.  Your post count dropped below 100/week and I got worried!   ;D

What tire were you running before?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on December 22, 2015, 12:18:06 pm
Haha!

Keep shreddin' tires my man!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 22, 2015, 12:38:31 pm
Good to see you're still alive and kickin.  Your post count dropped below 100/week and I got worried!   ;D


Thanks!      :burnout


What tire were you running before?


http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/street.php?item=SportsmanSR


Now I have the FAR superior -->

http://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/mickey-thompson-et-street-radial-tires/tire-size/315-60-15


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 22, 2015, 12:39:22 pm
Haha!

Keep shreddin' tires my man!


Thanks Joe.  I will shred until I can not physically drive safely.       :naughty:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on December 22, 2015, 02:37:38 pm
Nice!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Mr.Blue on December 22, 2015, 04:59:37 pm
Looks good....like that car :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on December 22, 2015, 09:51:26 pm
Looks good Robert.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: matt0matic on December 23, 2015, 12:28:21 am
I think your hood needs some alignment help.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 23, 2015, 10:12:35 am
I think your hood needs some alignment help.


Nope.  I jokingly tell everyone that I let my eleven year old grandson mod it with his welder and chop saw.    ;D

I don't want it to look perfect.  That way everyone knows that it is not professionally made but hauls ass nonetheless.   Made by the hobbyist/owner himself, obviously.  


It looks UNIQUE while letting out the hot nasty engine air away from the carb and intake.  It gets real hot here in Southern CA.





It IS the Mad Max Merc ...     :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on December 23, 2015, 04:38:10 pm
Took me 32 hrs to fab my headers.
Take 8 hrs off because a professional does it, and you have 24 hrs.

If it took YOU 32hrs, then it would take a pro more like 12hrs.

Don't overestimate your ability and efficiency.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 23, 2015, 04:48:31 pm
Took me 32 hrs to fab my headers.
Take 8 hrs off because a professional does it, and you have 24 hrs.

If it took YOU 32hrs, then it would take a pro more like 12hrs.

Don't overestimate your ability and efficiency.


Starting shit on my Merc's thread day before Christmas Eve?!?!     :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on December 23, 2015, 08:36:51 pm
It IS the Mad Max Merc ...     :burnout

My buddy went to some Mad Max festival out in the desert not terribly far from us.  Would be fun to strap it on my trailer and head up there to race people for money wearing some crazy outfits.  The Mad Merc will knock 'em down as fast as they line 'em up!  :burnout



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on December 23, 2015, 08:39:55 pm
Took me 32 hrs to fab my headers.
Take 8 hrs off because a professional does it, and you have 24 hrs.

If it took YOU 32hrs, then it would take a pro more like 12hrs.

Don't overestimate your ability and efficiency.

Starting shit on my Merc's thread day before Christmas Eve?!?!     :spit:

Adamson is only saying that because he's seen how long it's taking him to finish his car!   :sofa:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Mr.Blue on December 24, 2015, 10:54:51 am
Wasteland Weekend :ban

(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx293/MrBlue008/wasteland-weekend-2015-photos.jpg) (http://s765.photobucket.com/user/MrBlue008/media/wasteland-weekend-2015-photos.jpg.html)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on December 24, 2015, 03:39:08 pm
 :spit: :spit:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jarhead on December 27, 2015, 05:58:01 pm
good read Robert!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 27, 2015, 11:15:05 pm
 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 05, 2016, 10:46:21 am
https://lmr.com/item/LRS-12252A/1979-93-Mustang-50L-58L-Distributor-Boot


Does this product completely cover the distributor so that it is sealed or does the distributor with this product on it still have a vent "hole"?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 05, 2016, 11:30:35 am
Just a cover not sealed


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 06, 2016, 07:31:42 pm
With a Super Victor single plane manifold AND 2" of open carb spacers I was seeing dried fuel on the underside of the carb's air filter's cover.

Well now I just added another INCH of open carb spacer and after "test driving" (IOW carefully finding my "spot" and doing about three different WOT 20mph to a rolling 80 mph blasts -- which on two of them the Merc was trying to get away from me punching it in first gear -- "now" I know why race tracks are dry and flat instead of having un-even road surfaces!!!  LOL) I checked that same air filter cover and it was as dry and clean as I had made it right BEFORE my little "test drive" with 3" of open carb spacer.

Woody's expertise on this 408W, it's custom cam made for the complete package, a 4.56 rear gear and a 5500 rpm converter make using that much of open spacer a blast to drive and it got rid of the dreaded REVERSION.

I am a happy dude!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 06, 2016, 07:33:02 pm
 :smile


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 06, 2016, 07:34:28 pm
 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 06, 2016, 07:35:22 pm
 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 06, 2016, 07:36:09 pm
 :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 06, 2016, 07:38:10 pm
Did I ever tell you just HOW much I love the M/T ET Street radials that I have on the Merc?!?!

I have the 315/60R15's mounted on some 10" wide rims.

Handles very well.  Even on the street.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jarhead on February 06, 2016, 07:43:01 pm
 :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on February 06, 2016, 08:59:12 pm
If that open spacer had some bars in it and two solenoid so nice the intake you would really smile lol


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: quickshift on February 06, 2016, 09:43:54 pm
HOLY SHIT ROBERT......that there is half of a tunnel ram!     :clap


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 06, 2016, 11:04:36 pm
 :hide1:  More red wires.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 07, 2016, 12:28:26 am
If that open spacer had some bars in it and two solenoid so nice the intake you would really smile lol

I would be smiling until I blew IT up ...     :P


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 07, 2016, 12:32:03 am
HOLY SHIT ROBERT......that there is half of a tunnel ram!     :clap


I hear ya.  The Merc really likes it.  I know that if I still had those wide yet normal street tire treads on the back the Merc would be sliddin' all around and be close to a big problem.

The ET street radials make it hook real well -- even when I do a rolling WOT.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 07, 2016, 12:32:50 am
:hide1:  More red wires.


Inside joke, sorry Juiced!     :rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 07, 2016, 12:34:34 am
Now you all know why my hood looks like an eight year old tried to make it taller ... 



Mad Max Merc      :orglaugh


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on February 07, 2016, 01:17:04 am
Ya know... the longer and longer you make that plenum, the more and more it becomes tuned for lower rpm's... just like those long runner efi manifolds.... just saying...

You're probably not reving it high enough with the shorter stack.   :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 07, 2016, 10:30:31 am
Ya know... the longer and longer you make that plenum, the more and more it becomes tuned for lower rpm's... just like those long runner efi manifolds.... just saying...

You're probably not reving it high enough with the shorter stack.   :burnout


Tell that to a guy who slaps a tunnel ram on his "stock" engine ... ask him about his "torque down low".




I have noticed that it has picked up power in the lower rpm's ALSO, I am crediting that due to a more efficient burn because of the taller plenum helping to lower reversion.




Would I add anymore plenum volume?  Nope.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on February 07, 2016, 10:33:03 am
Larger plenum volume can increase power and move up the power band slightly, or just kill power if it already has too much plenum volume. Cast Tunnel Rams usually have longer runners which can increase torque in the lower rpm's. Increasing plenum volume is not for more low end and bringing the rpm band down. Runner length and taper is what dictates where the engine makes power.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 09, 2016, 07:10:25 pm
Well I was wrong.  After driving the Merc some more and especially in this upper 80's and 90 heat here lately the carb is WAY too picky.  Makes tuning a nightmare in this wackjob weather of Socal, cold one day and then crazy hot for 7 more.  And then cold some more days.  I am removing that 3rd inch open carb spacer going back to 2".  I am also guessing that I had lost some upper rpm power, too.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 09, 2016, 07:31:20 pm
Looking back to a few days ago since I have been driving the Merc a lot since then I am laughing at how right after I modded the Merc with more open spacer how my mind kinda tricked me into thinking it was driving better.  I know that it was cooler (the weather) which does have something to do with it but today's driving confirmed that it is actually worse with the extra inch of open carb spacer.



Wouldn't have learned if I hadn't tried it.







Back to two inches.       :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 09, 2016, 08:03:06 pm
I learned a few things.  Good.

I also noticed that it DID weaken the signal to the carb.  That change was really noticeable at cruising part throttle and when taking off slowly barely feeding it gas.

True, it did get rid of the signs of reversion with fuel stains underneath the bottom of the carb filter top lid disappearing after adding another inch of open carb spacer but it wasn't providing a strong enough signal to the carb for proper air/fuel mixing.  No bueno.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 09, 2016, 09:24:13 pm
That got me thinking about reversion.  My custom cam seems to have an excellent scavenging affect at high rpm's.  So maybe that fuel stains underneath the air filter lid was from idle (where I could not care any less) than at WOT (where of course I do care).

So I am going back to ONLY 1 inch of open carb spacer which has a built-in vacuum nipple to power my brakes and give me readings in-car of my manifold vacuum pressure on a gauge by my steering wheel.

So that frees me up another 2" so I just bought this from Summit Racing to help get air into the engine a bit easier, hopefully!


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all26023


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 09, 2016, 09:27:44 pm
I guess that I was getting a bit carried away because I had a custom camshaft made for ALL of the combo of parts that make up the Merc years ago before all of these spacers that I keep putting on and testing.

I am realizing now that going over 1" in open spacer is silly because it not necessary for top performance and that it is instead weakening the carb's signal which it really needs for top performance and weather drivability.

Ha!  Live some and learn some.



 ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: wywindsor on February 09, 2016, 10:12:54 pm
SOB. I thought if you had the right carb and it was dialed in it would run at all elevations and weather. If not there is a problem with the inter web and the radio.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 09, 2016, 10:56:27 pm
You would think that with less of carb signal it would tune easier, right?    :P


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 14, 2016, 03:26:04 pm
So what happened to the M/T ET Street tires?


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-3762r/overview/


They were my favorite!    :???


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on June 14, 2016, 04:00:33 pm
Went the way of the dinosaur...   Try these:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-3455/overview/ (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-3455/overview/)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 15, 2016, 09:45:59 am
Anyone ever run these street Hoosiers?


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hoo-19275/overview/


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on June 15, 2016, 09:58:47 am
They are just a big street radial.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on June 15, 2016, 11:03:31 am
They are just a big street radial.

But have you run them or not?

The question wasnt..."Are they or are they not a big street radial?"...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on June 15, 2016, 01:02:01 pm
But have you run them or not?

The question wasnt..."Are they or are they not a big street radial?"...

Have you? If not, fuck off.

I haven't used them because I know exactly what they are and they don't suit my needs. And since Robert just asked about drag radials yesterday, he should know that they are not that type of tire.

So, I'll say it again. Fuck off.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 15, 2016, 03:03:51 pm
But have you run them or not?

The question wasnt..."Are they or are they not a big street radial?"...

Have you? If not, fuck off.

I haven't used them because I know exactly what they are and they don't suit my needs. And since Robert just asked about drag radials yesterday, he should know that they are not that type of tire.

So, I'll say it again. Fuck off.


In other words not sticky tires.  I hear you, Juiced.  Thank you.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on June 15, 2016, 04:05:11 pm
But have you run them or not?

The question wasnt..."Are they or are they not a big street radial?"...

Have you? If not, fuck off.

I haven't used them because I know exactly what they are and they don't suit my needs. And since Robert just asked about drag radials yesterday, he should know that they are not that type of tire.

So, I'll say it again. Fuck off.

YES.......I had a 1970 Dodge Dart w/ 340, 4 speed that had those. Worked dandy for me. Why do you ask? I understand why merc would ask, but since you are not in the market for them, why do YOU ask?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on June 15, 2016, 04:09:59 pm
Anyone ever run these street Hoosiers?


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hoo-19275/overview/

Yes I have run those and no they are not particularly sticky. Suited my needs fine. At the time, I wanted wider rear wheels and tires mostly for looks and they fit the bill. Helped me sell the car I think. I don't have anything bad to say about them considering the use that I got out of them, however they would not be my go-to in a drag car. Muscle car type looks on a street only muscle car, not a bad way to go in my opinion.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on June 15, 2016, 04:48:57 pm
YES.......I had a 1970 Dodge Dart w/ 340, 4 speed that had those. Worked dandy for me. Why do you ask? I understand why merc would ask, but since you are not in the market for them, why do YOU ask?

Then that's what you should have said the first time. Instead, you choose to get in someone else's business again.

The tires aren't unfamiliar to me, and I had a good idea about what Robert wanted to know.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on June 15, 2016, 06:59:34 pm
YES.......I had a 1970 Dodge Dart w/ 340, 4 speed that had those. Worked dandy for me. Why do you ask? I understand why merc would ask, but since you are not in the market for them, why do YOU ask?


The tires aren't unfamiliar to me, and I had a good idea about what Robert wanted to know.

What robert wanted to know was if you and everyone else reading had run them or not. You didn't answer that at all. Who cares wether or not they are a street radial?

Also, as I said, why do you ask me wether or not I had run them? 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on June 15, 2016, 08:21:20 pm
What robert wanted to know was if you and everyone else reading had run them or not. You didn't answer that at all. Who cares wether or not they are a street radial?

If you look at his reply, he does. I already knew that he was looking for a drag radial type tire and those don't fit that description. But they are made by a manufacturer that is well known for drag radials, so I can understand the confusion.

Even though I've never owned a set, I have driven cars with them. They didn't hook any better than any other street radial that I've tried, and probably not as good as some. Nearly every set of those were replaced with something that provided better traction.

Also, as I said, why do you ask me wether or not I had run them? 

Because you jumped in and questioned my credibility. So, it was a valid question.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 23, 2016, 01:50:35 pm
The new M/T SS sticky tires have arrived.  They have too much "water channel" grooves IMHO.  I wish that they didn't change.

As you can see from the pic I don't think that they are going to hook as well.  I hope that I am wrong.

Also they measured a C-hair taller than 29".  I hope that when they are mounted on the rim and full of air that they will grow?  I want 30"!

Maybe they will last longer?  We will see.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on June 23, 2016, 02:18:22 pm
So you don't like your new tires?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 23, 2016, 02:31:32 pm
So you don't like your new tires?


Comparing them side to side my first impression was that the "old" style M/T ET Streets will hook better.  To me my first impression was that the "old" style that are discontinued by M/T have way more "contact" rubber.


Is it because people who don't know how to drive on the street even when it rains with sticky almost full contact tires had too many problems and M/T changed their design?  Me thinks so.


I will report later if I notice any performance decrease on the street.    ;)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on June 23, 2016, 07:09:21 pm
So, what you are saying is that the engineers at M/T made a poor choice in regards to the change in design of that tire?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on June 23, 2016, 07:28:53 pm
What they did was replace the previous design with two different designs. One with better wet traction and street qualities, while the other is more suited for drag racing duty.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 24, 2016, 01:04:47 am
What they did was replace the previous design with two different designs. One with better wet traction and street qualities, while the other is more suited for drag racing duty.


My problem with them is that they made their 30" tire with way too much rain grooves while their new "badass" D.O.T. sticky tire (R2 compound for the street which is sticky but lasts more so than a true racing slick compound) is on a 28" tall tire.  A 16.50" wide tire would be too large for my 10" rims as is.


http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/strip.php?item=ETStreetR


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 24, 2016, 01:29:43 am
Plus that over 30" tire (16.50" wide) is a M5 compound which won't last for a hoot on the street.

So yes I am a bit angry that M/T took away my great street hooking 30" tire.  Fuckers!


I have a 4.56 rear gear so I need a tall tire.


 :P


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on June 24, 2016, 10:12:14 am
Why didn't you like the 3455 i posted? R2 compound. 30.3" tall.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 24, 2016, 11:39:43 am
Why didn't you like the 3455 i posted? R2 compound. 30.3" tall.


That is the one the I just bought and posted the pic here!

  They are not 30.3" inches tall as advertised unless they are going to grow after being put on the rim.  I have never measured a tire before/after rim mounting.

Do you see the large rain grooves in the 3455's?

There is a BIG difference in available rubber that meets the ground with the new 3455's.

That is why I posted that pic.  The 3455's are next to the old style M/T ET Streets which are currently on the Merc.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on June 24, 2016, 01:47:23 pm
They'll grow when inflated.  Yep, larger grooves.  Only way to see how much they matter is testing unfortunately.  Not sure what other choices you have at this point.  Much like my stock size impala ss tires.  Use to be few dozen to choose from.  Now... only 2-3 tires available anymore in that size.  It sucks, just the way it is unfortunately.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 04, 2016, 10:45:45 am
Well I am amazed and gratefully happy because M/T doesn't sell the street "slicks" that I used to buy from them.

Even though these new M/T street tires have three 1/2" rain grooves they seem about the same on the street.  That is good.  IOW they perform better than my first impression of them.


I am happy about them!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 04, 2016, 02:23:02 pm
Happy to hear it worked out after all.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 05, 2016, 02:07:53 pm
Even though these new M/T street tires have three 1/2" rain grooves they seem about the same on the street.  That is good.  IOW they perform better than my first impression of them.

So you do notice a minor drop in available traction with these tires relative to the tires you used in the past?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 05, 2016, 07:59:27 pm
Even though these new M/T street tires have three 1/2" rain grooves they seem about the same on the street.  That is good.  IOW they perform better than my first impression of them.

So you do notice a minor drop in available traction with these tires relative to the tires you used in the past?


Honestly it's hard to really tell just on the street where available road traction is different all of the time in my daily driving experiences.

They seem to grip well enough for me for a street tire that isn't a true slick.

What will keep me with this street M/T tire line will be depending on how long they last.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on October 05, 2016, 10:19:55 pm
Knowing your self-reported stoplight to stoplight driving and trips down industrial drives I'm surprised they still have any tread!    ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jtmustang on October 12, 2016, 03:27:17 am
This things still going....lol

So has it made a pass yet? Besides street lights butt o meter..


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2016, 09:48:43 am
This things still going....lol

So has it made a pass yet? Besides street lights butt o meter..
Where have YOU been?

Bring your stuff down south and I will show you ...    ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2016, 09:53:29 am
My first time at a track on stupid Nitto tires.  The Merc is car# 8747.   :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 12, 2016, 04:29:01 pm
Why don't you go to the drag strip more often?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2016, 07:35:15 pm
Why don't you go to the drag strip more often?


Not with my DD.    :naughty:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 13, 2016, 04:41:14 pm
Why don't you go to the drag strip more often?


Not with my DD.    :naughty:

So you don't like drag racing?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on October 13, 2016, 04:47:11 pm
Why don't you go to the drag strip more often?


Not with my DD.    :naughty:

So you don't like drag racing?

No. He is scared of breaking his only vehicle and having to use public transportation until its fixed.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on October 13, 2016, 05:20:02 pm
Why don't you go to the drag strip more often?


Not with my DD.    :naughty:

So you don't like drag racing?

No. He is scared of breaking his only vehicle and having to use public transportation until its fixed.

That dude is in his own world. Sheesh!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 13, 2016, 06:44:29 pm
Correct on both counts liljoe07 and juiced coupe!




I did have fun at the track though.

I just don't have the money to afford for drag racing to be a higher priority right now in my life.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on October 13, 2016, 07:23:16 pm
Robert you are the cool one you get to drive your hot rod every day. Ignore dumb ass people.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2016, 09:47:19 am
Robert you are the cool one you get to drive your hot rod every day. Ignore dumb ass people.


Thank you, my friend.

You are cool and awesome too!

The Merc is pretty fast for me but it won't do a wheel-stand like your Mustang does.  I mean would you look at your avatar!!!!


(I am always saving money for a replacement engine for the Merc -- and any time I have to upgrade I make sure that I research and ask around {Jim Woody Woods and his wife Nicole of FordStrokers are the best engine builders!} to get something FASTER every time.)




Next engine will have be to patient enough to save enough for a Dart block and some High Port TEA cnc'd 240 heads.    ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 14, 2016, 04:22:51 pm
Jim Woody Woods and his wife Nicole of FordStrokers are the best engine builders!} to get something FASTER every time.)

Nicole is an engine builder? She does machine work and assembles engines?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on October 14, 2016, 04:44:30 pm
Jim Woody Woods and his wife Nicole of FordStrokers are the best engine builders!} to get something FASTER every time.)

Nicole is an engine builder? She does machine work and assembles engines?

She handles the logistics while Jim and his crew handle the machine and assembly work. Without one, the other doesn't happen.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: knucklefux on October 14, 2016, 05:20:12 pm

Nicole is an engine builder? She does machine work and assembles engines?

Would that surprise you?  Some reason a woman couldn't be an engine builder?  Why do you hate women?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 14, 2016, 09:08:18 pm
Would that surprise you?  Some reason a woman couldn't be an engine builder?  Why do you hate women?

It was my understanding that she takes orders, handles money etc.

That is why I was suprised when merc classified Nicole an "engine builder"


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2016, 09:51:16 pm
Would that surprise you?  Some reason a woman couldn't be an engine builder?  Why do you hate women?

It was my understanding that she takes orders, handles money etc.

That is why I was suprised when merc classified Nicole an "engine builder"


My meaning is that they both are a great husband/wife team.  I am currently enjoying one of their custom made 408W engines.  The Merc and I are ecstatic!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 16, 2016, 12:58:21 am
Robert has driven his Merc to the track and ripped off a pass MUCH faster than most internet experts predicted.  Yes, MUCH, in all caps.  At a track I run at.  Nuf said.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 30, 2016, 10:40:09 pm
Well I have driven the new style street M/T tires for a month now and I don't like them.  They do NOT have the traction that their older discontinued style used to give me.  I sure wish that they would change their mind again and bring back their old style which was almost a "bald" tire.  It sure gripped!


 :'(


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 31, 2016, 02:17:14 pm
Well I have driven the new style street M/T tires for a month now and I don't like them.  They do NOT have the traction that their older discontinued style used to give me.  I sure wish that they would change their mind again and bring back their old style which was almost a "bald" tire.  It sure gripped!


 :'(

Back and forth you go...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on November 01, 2016, 09:45:50 am
Back and forth you go...

At least he's GOING...  and not just blowing hot air. 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on November 01, 2016, 10:42:46 am
And in a HOTROD !!!


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on November 01, 2016, 02:04:53 pm
Back and forth you go...

At least he's GOING...  and not just blowing hot air. 

My van has been going for over 100k......which by the way you were one of those guys that told me my engine was doomed for early failure.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on November 01, 2016, 02:07:40 pm
Back and forth you go...

At least he's GOING...  and not just blowing hot air. 

My van has been going for over 100k......which by the way you were one of those guys that told me my engine was doomed for early failure.

People didn't say it was doomed for failure.  They just don't like your pessimistic attitude.
About the engine, people said you spent far too much for far too little. 
 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on November 01, 2016, 02:14:48 pm
They just don't like your assimistic attitude.

Fixed it for you.  :347ho:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on November 01, 2016, 02:33:08 pm



Back and forth you go...


My first post about the new style with 3 water channel M/T tires was after driving it for a couple of days.

My mind has been changed with more experience with them.

I try and think mostly positive with good intentions.  So at first they seemed adequate.  After more hands on experience I would rather not buy them again.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on November 01, 2016, 04:11:39 pm
Back and forth you go...

At least he's GOING...  and not just blowing hot air.  

My van has been going for over 100k......which by the way you were one of those guys that told me my engine was doomed for early failure.

People didn't say it was doomed for failure.  They just don't like your pessimistic attitude.
About the engine, people said you spent far too much for far too little.  
 

If I wanted to I could dig up posts about how much of a problem my engine was supposed to be, posts from YOU. I am talking about YOU, not people.

And yes, other "people" in addition to yourself said the same thing.

And here I am 100k miles later and the engine is as strong as ever with no engine related problems. A little bit of oil consumption (catch cans and burned), but not enough to be a problem.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on November 01, 2016, 05:50:36 pm
I can't believe you still butt hurt about people not agreeing with you on your build I think it's funny. But I learned along time ago there are more than one way to get a job done.

Bam


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on November 01, 2016, 06:48:09 pm
If I wanted to I could dig up posts about how much of a problem my engine was supposed to be, posts from YOU. I am talking about YOU, not people.

And yes, other "people" in addition to yourself said the same thing.

Don't remember saying much about your build.  You're free to look, though.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on November 03, 2016, 09:32:05 am



Back and forth you go...



I try and think mostly positive with good intentions.  So at first they seemed adequate.  After more hands on experience I would rather not buy them again.


Talk about me flipping and flopping just like a fucking politician!  LOL!!!


If I don't buy a M/T in the future THAN the dilemma is what STREET tire is better than a M/T for grip?     :P


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on November 03, 2016, 04:25:43 pm
Talk about me flipping and flopping just like a fucking politician!  LOL!!!


If I don't buy a M/T in the future THAN the dilemma is what STREET tire is better than a M/T for grip?     :P

Well if you want lots of grip you will have to sacrifice longevity. Pros and cons....


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on November 30, 2016, 08:12:07 am
The next step Robert

Bam


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on November 30, 2016, 08:43:07 pm
Yessir, Goodyear Eagle wide ol' slicks!  LOL!    ;D


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on November 30, 2016, 08:50:31 pm
I leaned into it a good bit after work driving home today.  Powered around some slow cars in 2nd gear on some business streets and then going up the freeway on-ramp got the Merc easily up to just under 100.  It felt great.  The Merc is a FUN car to drive.  Not too shabby for a 3800# car.

Always a thankful shout-out to Woody for his 408W.

Wanted him to build me a 427W Dart block TEA 240 TW heads a month ago but the Boss said hell no because the 408W runs so fine and it only has a tad under 20K miles on it.

 :rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: cheapbastard on December 03, 2016, 09:10:06 am
That thing is pretty healthy for how heavy it is.  :smile   I have been looking at drag radials.  What is it you don't like about the SS?  Is it just they don't stick as well as the old ET radials? 


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on December 03, 2016, 10:28:18 am
I leaned into it a good bit after work driving home today.  Powered around some slow cars in 2nd gear on some business streets and then going up the freeway on-ramp got the Merc easily up to just under 100.  It felt great.  The Merc is a FUN car to drive.  Not too shabby for a 3800# car.

Always a thankful shout-out to Woody for his 408W.

Wanted him to build me a 427W Dart block TEA 240 TW heads a month ago but the Boss said hell no because the 408W runs so fine and it only has a tad under 20K miles on it.

 :rock
Maybe next year for the 427. :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on December 03, 2016, 04:24:21 pm
That thing is pretty healthy for how heavy it is.  :smile   I have been looking at drag radials.  What is it you don't like about the SS?  Is it just they don't stick as well as the old ET radials?  


Thanks.

Yes the new style M/T tires do not hook as good as their old style.  They have three "rain gutters" that are each one inch wide.  No good.  IMHO they are so bad next traction-wise I will be getting these "regular" tires next time UNLESS M/T brings back their old style simply because they wear out MUCH quicker than a regular tire and they don't grab worth a bunny's' ass.


https://www.amazon.com/Hoosier-Racing-Tires-Street-12-5R15/dp/B00975FR3O/ref=pd_day0_293_5?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00975FR3O&pd_rd_r=V42R0CB6B15RYMPWAZT6&pd_rd_w=Pw2F9&pd_rd_wg=IAOKD&psc=1&refRID=V42R0CB6B15RYMPWAZT6


Summit sells them for $329 each.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 11, 2017, 10:00:15 am
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/HOO-19275


So I just put these on and I love them.  Much better than the sticky M/T ET Street tires because M/T added a bunch of water channels and their life on the street versus not very good grip got me to go back to street tires for the street.

I like these Hoosiers because they are big.  I know their 60' time would suck compared to a race track slick but on the street they seem faster than the M/T tires I used to have on the Merc because the Hoosier tires spin some once I floor it and between shifts so the Merc revs up quicker.  Plus I kinda missed having to work the steering wheel to maintain a straight drive while rowing the gears up at WOT ...

They were a LOT of fun going to work this morning ...    :burnout


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 11, 2017, 09:39:32 pm
The morning drive was so much fun that I forgot about my important complaint.  Hoosier advertises these tires to be 31".  They are only B A R E L Y 30-1/4" tall on 10" wide rims.  If I had known that I would not have paid over $350 per tire.  They were supposed to be the tallest tire at 12-1/2" wide around that was of normal tire tread material.  I SURE was pissed when I measured them aired up on the Merc.


 :disgust:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 18, 2017, 07:33:42 pm
Well --to be fair to Hoosier and their tire:

I have driven with the Hoosier tires for almost a week now.  They look better than the M/T that were on the Merc.  Appearance-wise they are VERY noticeably wider and do look a little bit taller.

I was griping about a small amount of height difference compared to their initial cost but I figured that the M/
T wear out so quickly that actually the Hooiser are a little bit less money.

Sorry Hoosier, I take my ranting back.  I NOW actually like these tires by Hoosier quite a bit more.

 :thumb:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on April 29, 2017, 05:35:11 pm
Robert it's good to see you're still enjoying the Merc.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 30, 2017, 11:57:39 am
Robert it's good to see you're still enjoying the Merc.


Always.  Hopefully 'till the day that I die.    ;)



How is your ride doing?  Any cool updates?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on May 02, 2017, 11:20:13 pm
Robert it's good to see you're still enjoying the Merc.


Always.  Hopefully 'till the day that I die.    ;)



How is your ride doing?  Any cool updates?

I have a few updates I'll post soon, but nothing major.  I'm slowly chipping away at it.  I've driven it about 4 hours since the last time it stalled on me and I haven't had any issues with it.  Might have been vapor lock that caused the stall.  Right now focusing on replacing my old leaky 2.5" h-pipe with a 3" h-pipe so I can drive it around without stinking like exhaust when I get out.

I raced a slammed Silverado the other day that sounded pretty good.  He was too heavy though and I pulled away easily.  Never know with trucks in Texas though.  Especially some of the torque monster diesels down here.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on May 12, 2017, 04:35:06 pm
Robert, you got any relatives from across the pond?

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1693530


He even has lots of red wire.





 :hide1:


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 12, 2017, 06:47:02 pm
Robert, you got any relatives from across the pond?

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1693530


He even has lots of red wire.





 :hide1:


LOL!  The Torino and Montego are very similar in many ways.

Very cool!  Thank you.   :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on May 13, 2017, 12:52:28 am
Kind of a brother from another Mother-land.   ;D

BTW I'm not poking fun, my car has as much "personality" as yours.  The main difference is your engine was built by a professional.   :party


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 25, 2018, 10:31:26 am
Good morning to all.

I was happily reminded this morning while flooring and going thru the gears with the Merc just how a HUGE difference an early 40*F air temperature can improve acceleration.

Put on your seatbelts and hold ON with regular street tires.  The Merc makes some decent street power but not enough that I can't control.  Decent suspension, frame mods, heavy car and good wheelbase.

What a blast!  


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on January 25, 2018, 10:56:40 am
Glad to see your still having fun with your ride. Any upgrades in the future?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on January 25, 2018, 05:56:14 pm
Glad to see your still having fun with your ride. Any upgrades in the future?

What he said...


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 25, 2018, 09:48:56 pm
Glad to see your still having fun with your ride. Any upgrades in the future?

What he said...


Yes in my head.  For sure!

The problem is money.  At my company we had to take a substantial pay cut.  Our health system industry is not doing well.  I am hoping that Trump and his crew fix that pronto.  It is important.

So because of that any forward Merc progress is at a current standstill.


More to come later I hope!     :smile


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jtmustang on January 26, 2018, 02:41:09 am
Haha....long time

So this beast is still running.. :rock



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 26, 2018, 09:45:47 am
Haha....long time

So this beast is still running.. :rock




Yes it is very well I must add.  Thank you.


Always super PROPS to Jim and Nicole Woods for their SBF business @ Fordstrokers.com!

Super cool to do business with and they get the job done.  This 408W that they built and shipped to me back in 2011 is machined and put together with superior parts.  I realize that every time I fire up the Merc.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jtmustang on January 30, 2018, 05:04:07 am
Nice.

So no rebuilds or freshen ups between then? How many miles you figure?


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 30, 2018, 09:52:58 pm
Nice.

So no rebuilds or freshen ups between then? How many miles you figure?

Nothing.  The 408W drives today the same as it did when I first got it.  Actually better since I upgraded from a Holley 750 to a QuickFuel 850 cfm carb about three months after I got the engine.

Probably around 30,000 miles.


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on January 31, 2018, 11:28:11 am
30,000 HARD miles!  :burnout :smile


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: jtmustang on February 02, 2018, 05:18:21 am
Awesome!



Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 02, 2018, 09:53:57 am
  Actually better since I upgraded from a Holley 750 to a QuickFuel 850 cfm carb about three months after I got the engine.



The too small 750 cfm Holley carb was from my previous Windsor actually.  Nicole Woods suggested an 850 cfm carb for their 408W.  It helped the top-end power for SURE!


 :rock


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 29, 2018, 10:06:43 am
FYI -- On Quick Fuel Technology carbs:  The fuel bowl floats HAVE to be set at halfway up the sight glass levels with the engine IDLING otherwise the carb's transfer slot circuits will not get enough fuel to offer the best in performance.

If your cam makes the engine shake too much at idle to see where in the heck the fuel level in the bowl is then give it just enough gas to steady the rockin' engine.

Talking about off idle acceleration.

 :)


Title: Re: THE '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on June 06, 2018, 10:05:26 am
Sorry but I typed incorrectly.  The correct way is to check the float levels with the engine NOT running.   ;)