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Membership Tech => Projects Under Construction => Topic started by: 69 Merc on August 13, 2010, 02:33:06 pm



Title: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 13, 2010, 02:33:06 pm


(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/Mercurypic1-20-08008.jpg)

(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/Mercurybodyphotos3-14-09001.jpg)

(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/Mercurypic1-20-08004.jpg)


I don't have any current pics.  I need to take some.  It's just been friggin' hot and humid here where I live.   :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 13, 2010, 02:43:35 pm

I kind of agree with Javier on the gear thing, MERC you have enough converter now, a 4.10 or 3.73 the car might feel stronger, meanwhile be more enjoyable to drive
I doubt you drive on the highway much, a 4.56gear with a 26"tire and a c4 would probably suck at 65-70

My Merc never sees any freeway miles due to the gearing.

Remember that with me in it the Merc tips the scales at 4000lbs so I need plenty of gear to move our heavy asses!  Anything below 4.10's suck in the take-off and acceleration department!

as far as hp MERC, working with what you have, on a budget, I think I would mill the heads and try to get the compression up to 10.25:1 or 10.5:1

The heads are milled to the limit.  The crappy cast pistons are 8.5:1 because of some friggin' tree-hugger.

and ditch the stack of spacers, go 1" open, or just ditch that intake altogether and look into a small runner single plane for now.

How come you don't like my stack of spacers?  I have 2" of open plenum added and because of the crappy OTS cam I need 2" more of a 4-hole spacer to improve the carb signal.  They are because of my OTS cam which sucks and I'm being cheap for now on this motor so I can save up for an upgraded new motor!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Fst Blk on August 13, 2010, 02:46:47 pm
What's the deal with the hood. It looks like it doesn't fit right in the rear. Also, what did you do to the rear wheel well? It looks like you got trim happy.
Bill


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 13, 2010, 02:52:36 pm
What's the deal with the hood. It looks like it doesn't fit right in the rear.

It keeps my motor cool and especially the carb's intake charge!  It's something I thought of.  Everyone asks me when I'm going to fix that and I reply by taking the hood off so they can see that I've welded the rear spring assembly together and I've installed hood latch pins there and also two more in front for a total of four latch pins and the OEM front latch, too so it isn't ever coming off.

Also, what did you do to the rear wheel well? It looks like you got trim happy.

A little bit trim happy.   :spit:


It will turn out better because soon I'm going to put on some sticky Nitto 555DR tires on it that will be 315/50R15 and they will take up most of the open space that my cutting wheel has created.  I hope!  :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on August 13, 2010, 03:02:12 pm
For some reason I've always liked that body style.  Especially the front.  Just looks cool to me.  :) 


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gmatt9858 on August 14, 2010, 07:18:18 am
3,750lb, I didn't realize they were that heavy. Montego's are 'midsize' right? Equivalent to a Fairlane? My buddie's mom had one, maybe a '68. Finding body parts must be a bitch. It's cool though, different.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2010, 09:11:05 am
3,750lb, I didn't realize they were that heavy. Montego's are 'midsize' right? Equivalent to a Fairlane? My buddie's mom had one, maybe a '68. Finding body parts must be a bitch. It's cool though, different.

I took it to a steel vendor and put it on their truck scale.  3750lbs.  Spare tire and all.

They say the frame is close to a Fairlane but I think it's heavier than a Fairlane.

I'm not able to find body parts -- its basically get out some steel, some Bondo, my welder, sander and cutting wheel time!

I like it because everyone's brother, uncle and cousin has a Mustang/Nova/Camaro.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 14, 2010, 01:25:50 pm
"How come you don't like my stack of spacers?  I have 2" of open plenum added and because of the crappy OTS cam I need 2" more of a 4-hole spacer to improve the carb signal.  They are because of my OTS cam which sucks and I'm being cheap for now on this motor so I can save up for an upgraded new motor!"

everyone has different experiences, testing I have done, I've found a 2" 4 hole spacer to be worthless for anything other than a doorstop, it is a restriction in itself; the only time I think it could even be possibly worthwhile would be on a stockish build that is over carburated
a 2" open didnt work well for me on a dual plane intake, I believe that spacer would be worthwhile on a real healthy motor with a single plane intake thats to small, adding plenum volume and raising shift point maybe 200 rpm
my testing on a high rise dual plane found a 1" open spacer to be the only one that really showed any gains.

different combos will have different results, but Im really not wrapping my mind how that setup is helping you :dunno




"The heads are milled to the limit.  The crappy cast pistons are 8.5:1 because of some friggin' tree-hugger.

that really sucks. you need a piston swap, but to go through the trouble, a cheapo stroker kit almost makes sense

being a HFT, that cam is actually small, but your compression is in the gutter so that kind of stinks




"Remember that with me in it the Merc tips the scales at 4000lbs so I need plenty of gear to move our heavy asses!  Anything below 4.10's suck in the take-off and acceleration department!"

the only way to know would be to test, your converter is loose enough where it might like the taller gear. it'd definately be a more enjoyable driver IMO







do you have any engine pay pics?
how big is this car in proportion to a fairlane?



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Matt Paul on August 14, 2010, 03:36:55 pm
Robert your car looks COOL!! reminds me of the old days, lifted leaf spring cars with shackels cut out fenders ;D, I figure a bench seat with a coloum shift also, When I was a kid my dad had the a 1975 station wagon version yellow with wood grain total Griswold car.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on August 14, 2010, 06:00:32 pm
Jayh, have you ever stacked a four hole spacer on top of an open spacer?  You would have laughed when you saw my old carb guy stacking spacers ridiculously high.  It was a trip but he claimed in certain cases it worked very well for him. :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2010, 06:06:12 pm
Robert your car looks COOL!! reminds me of the old days, lifted leaf spring cars with shackels cut out fenders ;D, I figure a bench seat with a coloum shift also, When I was a kid my dad had the a 1975 station wagon version yellow with wood grain total Griswold car.

Thanks, Matt.  Yes the front seat is a huge bench seat and it used to have a column shifter.  Now it is a ratchet floor shifter.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2010, 06:13:03 pm
Jayh, have you ever stacked a four hole spacer on top of an open spacer?  You would have laughed when you saw my old carb guy stacking spacers ridiculously high.  It was a trip but he claimed in certain cases it worked very well for him. :dunno

I have tried and tested many, many different spacer combos mixed with open and four-hole.  My present spacer combo with this motor is the best.

I was down and out when I got this motor years ago so it was actually a blessing.  Plus thanks to this forum I've learned quite a lot.  I'm in the save money mode for a future upgrade.  My new motor will have at least 10:1CR!  And forged internals, too.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 14, 2010, 06:48:39 pm
Jayh, have you ever stacked a four hole spacer on top of an open spacer?  You would have laughed when you saw my old carb guy stacking spacers ridiculously high.  It was a trip but he claimed in certain cases it worked very well for him. :dunno

I have but only a 2" on top of a 1", didnt have that much room
did your old crab guy do this on a dual plane intake though? I did and it was fruitless. I can see how it could work on a single plane, just not on a performer rpm. every combo is different, so maybe it does work, Im just not grasping this situation  :dunno

I like the car a lot! old iron is especially cool. if it were mine though, Id find a way to keep the hood stock and (other than rims) make it a total sleeper!  :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2010, 06:59:44 pm

I have but only a 2" on top of a 1", didnt have that much room
did your old crab guy do this on a dual plane intake though? I did and it was fruitless. I can see how it could work on a single plane, just not on a performer rpm. every combo is different, so maybe it does work, Im just not grasping this situation  :dunno

It's kind of turning my RPM air-gap into a single plane because now the cylinders get to pull fuel from all 4 barrels of my carb and not just two barrels like before the open spacers because of the plenum divider that is built into the RPM manifold.


I like the car a lot! old iron is especially cool. if it were mine though, Id find a way to keep the hood stock and (other than rims) make it a total sleeper!  :party

Thank you, man.  I love my Merc.

The hood is functional -- it helps get a cooler carb charge and with 4" of carb spacers a stock hood for sleeper appearance wouldn't close.  Not to mention just hearing it with my dual 3" exhaust anyone who knew anything could hear the modified power.

Quite often I have people drive up next to me at the red light and ask "what do you have under the hood of that thing?" because at times I like to drop it into 2nd gear while cruising and go WOT until the yellow tach shift light comes on!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 14, 2010, 07:14:28 pm
maybe you could shop around for a deal on a used small runner single plane and do some test and tune?

sell whichever one off and recoup some of the money after some testing

heck if you are gonna need it someday anyway, try to find a deal on a used vic jr or super vic and try it out!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2010, 07:23:26 pm
maybe you could shop around for a deal on a used small runner single plane and do some test and tune?

sell whichever one off and recoup some of the money after some testing

heck if you are gonna need it someday anyway, try to find a deal on a used vic jr or super vic and try it out!

Those are some real good ideas but unless I know the seller I've been burned before and the aggravation for used purchasing isn't worth it to me anymore.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 14, 2010, 07:37:04 pm
lookout for local swap meets. there has to be at least 2 good ones a year that arent a far drive
take the girl and make a day out of it. enjoy it. in person, you can usually knock the price down a few bucks also

my dad says his favorite part of the hobby above all else is parts hunting; watching classifieds, searching, going to shows etc. the people you meet and the conversations along the way are all a part of it!

 :drink


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2010, 08:10:50 pm
 :party   Thanks, man.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on August 15, 2010, 02:42:29 am
Jayh, have you ever stacked a four hole spacer on top of an open spacer?  You would have laughed when you saw my old carb guy stacking spacers ridiculously high.  It was a trip but he claimed in certain cases it worked very well for him. :dunno

I have but only a 2" on top of a 1", didnt have that much room
did your old crab guy do this on a dual plane intake though? I did and it was fruitless. I can see how it could work on a single plane, just not on a performer rpm. every combo is different, so maybe it does work, Im just not grasping this situation  :dunno

I like the car a lot! old iron is especially cool. if it were mine though, Id find a way to keep the hood stock and (other than rims) make it a total sleeper!  :party

I believe it came to him with an RPM dual plane.  Knowing the carb guy it left with a modified Vic Jr and big carburetor.  Don't remember which intake was on it when I saw it with all the stacked spacers to be honest.  I didn't grasp the concept but know he and the owner said it was working. :dunno

I do know my current super sucker style spacer which is a tapered four hole into an open (one spacer) has seemed to pick up at all rpm.  The track will let me know if the top end had picked up.  I would expect a four hole on top of an open to do similar on my Vic Jr intake 289. 


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: grslms51 on August 15, 2010, 07:58:03 am
Merc,your car is a real sleeper..i bet you suprise the shit out of a lot of people that pull up on you.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: SteveL on August 15, 2010, 10:59:22 pm
Hey Robert...

http://olympic.craigslist.org/cto/1899569476.html

 :whistling:

69 Mercury Montego MX - $2500 (Aberdeen, WA)
Date: 2010-08-14, 11:17PM PDT
Reply to: sale-8jhxh-1899569476@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

351windsor, C4, edelbrock manifold, carter AFB, Moroso billet aluminum HEI distributor, new coil and 8mm ford racing plug wires, brand new 3.73 traction-lok 3rd member from Randy's Ring and Pinion in completely rebuilt, narrowed rear end, new brakes and rubber all around, new front end bearings and bushings. Ran great and drove daily til parked approx. 5 years ago. No cancer, no missing pieces, good glass, some minor dings, but fairly straight. Good looking, very unique car. Only produced for two years. If you're looking for something different that you won't see every day, this is the car for you. Breaks my heart to part with it. Close to the asking price in new parts alone and I have receipts for most of them. Under hood photo is older and doesn't show new distributor, coil, and plug wires. Call Glenn. 360.538.0960

(http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr265/Bates_K/Oddlots/3m33p.jpg)
(http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr265/Bates_K/Oddlots/3kf3.jpg)
(http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr265/Bates_K/Oddlots/3m03.jpg)
(http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr265/Bates_K/Oddlots/3m13.jpg)

    * Location: Aberdeen, WA
    * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Blue Oval on August 16, 2010, 12:13:41 am
Robert, I ran my car on a chassis dyno and then ran it with a 2" 4 hole spacer and it actually lost 5 hp.
I guess different cams and heads could produce a different result but I can't see any huge gains with it.
I am running an Air Gap Performer as well.

Your car looks real old school racer. Reminds me of a hotrod movie I saw with James Taylor in it :-)
Can't remember the name now  :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on August 16, 2010, 12:30:55 am
Robert, I ran my car on a chassis dyno and then ran it with a 2" 4 hole spacer and it actually lost 5 hp.
I guess different cams and heads could produce a different result but I can't see any huge gains with it.
I am running an Air Gap Performer as well.

Your car looks real old school racer. Reminds me of a hotrod movie I saw with James Taylor in it :-)
Can't remember the name now  :dunno

Just out of curiosity. Did you look at RPM vs. time?

You can lose horse power by putting on lighter brakes..  but it could still pick up at the track.

Not saying your tests isn't valid. So don't take it that way. Just saying it might not be applicable to all


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Fordota on August 16, 2010, 01:12:09 am
Robert I want you to paint your car flat black with black steel rims. I want Stunt Man Mike to drive it. It totally reminds me of my favorite movie Deathproof!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jtmustang on August 16, 2010, 01:15:08 am
Robert I want you to paint your car flat black with black steel rims. I want Stunt Man Mike to drive it. It totally reminds me of my favorite movie Deathproof!


 :yes:

just watched this last week...... ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 16, 2010, 09:51:33 am
Hey Robert...

http://olympic.craigslist.org/cto/1899569476.html

 :whistling:

69 Mercury Montego MX - $2500 (Aberdeen, WA)
Date: 2010-08-14, 11:17PM PDT
Reply to: sale-8jhxh-1899569476@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

351windsor, C4, edelbrock manifold, carter AFB, Moroso billet aluminum HEI distributor, new coil and 8mm ford racing plug wires, brand new 3.73 traction-lok 3rd member from Randy's Ring and Pinion in completely rebuilt, narrowed rear end, new brakes and rubber all around, new front end bearings and bushings. Ran great and drove daily til parked approx. 5 years ago. No cancer, no missing pieces, good glass, some minor dings, but fairly straight. Good looking, very unique car. Only produced for two years. If you're looking for something different that you won't see every day, this is the car for you. Breaks my heart to part with it. Close to the asking price in new parts alone and I have receipts for most of them. Under hood photo is older and doesn't show new distributor, coil, and plug wires. Call Glenn. 360.538.0960

(http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr265/Bates_K/Oddlots/3m33p.jpg)
(http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr265/Bates_K/Oddlots/3kf3.jpg)
(http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr265/Bates_K/Oddlots/3m03.jpg)
(http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr265/Bates_K/Oddlots/3m13.jpg)

  

Thanks.  Now you can see the nightmare those shock towers pose!

Fitting my 1-3/4" LT headers there was a two day PITA!!!  (But worth it . . .)  :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 16, 2010, 10:01:02 am
Robert, I ran my car on a chassis dyno and then ran it with a 2" 4 hole spacer and it actually lost 5 hp.
I guess different cams and heads could produce a different result but I can't see any huge gains with it.
I am running an Air Gap Performer as well.

Your car looks real old school racer. Reminds me of a hotrod movie I saw with James Taylor in it :-)
Can't remember the name now  :dunno

From my signature you'll see I have a 2" four-hole spacer on top of a 2" open spacer.  That open spacer wakes up my restrictive Air-Gap manifold and the four-hole spacer is to help with street manners due to my OTS camshaft on a DD.

With a custom camshaft a Vic Jr. would be on my engine without a four-hole spacer.  Or maybe a Vic Sr. intake with some four-hole spacers.  It would depend on how it handles around the streets because this is my DD.

As long as it takes off good and doesn't sputter when the engine is cold around the streets then I'm not too worried about 5hp.  Also -- even if the dyno shows 5hp more while I'm trying to accelerate on the street it will probably actually be slower due to a worse carb signal which means the A/F aren't getting optimally mixed.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Blue Oval on August 16, 2010, 05:49:18 pm
Interesting Point Vert.
I'm going back to the track in early Oct and am going to try it without the air cleaner. That test proved no gain on the dyno as well but could well make a difference at the track. I guess the dyno doesn't take wind resistance or engine acceleration into account.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 16, 2010, 05:51:23 pm
Interesting Point Vert.
I'm going back to the track in early Oct and am going to try it without the air cleaner. That test proved no gain on the dyno as well but could well make a difference at the track. I guess the dyno doesn't take wind resistance or engine acceleration into account.


I wouldn't.  What if something you don't want gets in your engine and ruins it?  Or scratches up your bearings which will lower it's life expectancy?

A member here just tried it and it didn't change his times at the track.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on August 16, 2010, 09:42:42 pm
Interesting Point Vert.
I'm going back to the track in early Oct and am going to try it without the air cleaner. That test proved no gain on the dyno as well but could well make a difference at the track. I guess the dyno doesn't take wind resistance or engine acceleration into account.


I wouldn't.  What if something you don't want gets in your engine and ruins it?  Or scratches up your bearings which will lower it's life expectancy?

A member here just tried it and it didn't change his times at the track.

Robert. Nothing against you. Or the other member.. I maybe think it was Bobby but don't remember.

But I think far more racers race with an air pan and no filter than then do with a filter. Again. I think. I'm not sure.

Obviously it depends on location too.. But there must be something to it.  :wonder:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 16, 2010, 09:43:52 pm
After I learned from this forum that Fram oil filters are crap I changed to a WIX filter.  The WIX filter doesn't have built-in rough areas to help you remove it by hand like the Fram filter did.

Today before I changed my motor oil and filter I bought this Pennzoil adjustable oil filter wrench and it made removing the hot oil filter easy as pie!

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/CSM0/19403.oap?keyword=19403 (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/CSM0/19403.oap?keyword=19403)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 16, 2010, 09:45:40 pm
Interesting Point Vert.
I'm going back to the track in early Oct and am going to try it without the air cleaner. That test proved no gain on the dyno as well but could well make a difference at the track. I guess the dyno doesn't take wind resistance or engine acceleration into account.


I wouldn't.  What if something you don't want gets in your engine and ruins it?  Or scratches up your bearings which will lower it's life expectancy?

A member here just tried it and it didn't change his times at the track.

Robert. Nothing against you. Or the other member.. I maybe think it was Bobby but don't remember.

But I think far more racers race with an air pan and no filter than then do with a filter. Again. I think. I'm not sure.

Obviously it depends on location too.. But there must be something to it.  :wonder:

Really?  Most racers don't use an air filter at the track?  IDK but if I ever make it to the track if the Lord blesses me with a better paycheck I'll be using an air filter if my engine is running and the Merc is moving . . .


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on August 16, 2010, 10:04:13 pm
I think. I could very well be mistaken  :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on August 16, 2010, 10:12:57 pm
Interesting Point Vert.
I'm going back to the track in early Oct and am going to try it without the air cleaner. That test proved no gain on the dyno as well but could well make a difference at the track. I guess the dyno doesn't take wind resistance or engine acceleration into account.


I wouldn't.  What if something you don't want gets in your engine and ruins it?  Or scratches up your bearings which will lower it's life expectancy?

A member here just tried it and it didn't change his times at the track.

Robert. Nothing against you. Or the other member.. I maybe think it was Bobby but don't remember.

But I think far more racers race with an air pan and no filter than then do with a filter. Again. I think. I'm not sure.

Obviously it depends on location too.. But there must be something to it.  :wonder:

This is true most racers don't use them. But if you can get one under the hood its not a bad idea.
Most racers don't leave their motors together long enough to see the damage that can be caused by not running an air cleaner. But if you run at a track that has paved pits the potential for damage is much less. Street/Strip car run a air cleaner, drag only with paved pits you can pass, drag only in a dusty climate with unpaved pits run a air cleaner IMHO.  As long as you run a quality aircleaner that is tall enough there should be almost no performance differance.

 
Bam


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 19, 2010, 10:25:00 am
MERC are you running a pcv valve? if so its time for a new one

if you're running 2 open breathers and its popping the dipstick tube up, chances are you have too much oil in it or the rings are going away

I have 2 open breathers.

I just installed a crankcase vacuum gauge inside my Merc so while I'm driving I can monitor it.

This morning at WOT I read 1/2psi - 3/4psi of crankcase "blow-by".  That is why my dipstick is popping up and the reason for my oil leaks.  This weekend I'm installing Jeg's header evac on my Merc.  I will report what crankcase vacuum readings it gives me at idle, cruising and at WOT.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 19, 2010, 11:08:49 am
so MERC, have you ever thought about a mustangII front suspension setup? its not cheap but you could eliminate the shock towers and fit a BIG ass engine in there


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 19, 2010, 11:44:36 am
so MERC, have you ever thought about a mustangII front suspension setup? its not cheap but you could eliminate the shock towers and fit a BIG ass engine in there

I don't know about that.  More info, experience and links, please!!!   :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 19, 2010, 01:31:44 pm
Talking about my Jeg's header evac kit --


Even though the instructions say to weld the part after the collector but close to the merge I wonder if that is ideal because of the scavenging effect?



(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/2010-08-19_103037.jpg)



I wonder if welding in the part a bit further away from the collector's merge point would be better?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Fordota on August 19, 2010, 03:56:51 pm
just a hunch, but I think that one of the reasons mine doesn't pull so good is it should have been further away from the goilet


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 19, 2010, 04:08:59 pm
just a hunch, but I think that one of the reasons mine doesn't pull so good is it should have been further away from the goilet

What is a "goilet"?

Have you read what yours pulls with a vacuum gauge?  If so how much?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on August 19, 2010, 04:34:05 pm
Goilet:http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/scrp_0704_header_tech/photo_08.html (http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/scrp_0704_header_tech/photo_08.html)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 19, 2010, 05:10:26 pm
so MERC, have you ever thought about a mustangII front suspension setup? its not cheap but you could eliminate the shock towers and fit a BIG ass engine in there

I don't know about that.  More info, experience and links, please!!!   :thanx:

I cant find the other one I was looking at, but heres one-
http://www.totalcostinvolved.com/assets/pdf/60-65_Ford_Falcon_Coil_Spring_IFS.pdf


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Fordota on August 19, 2010, 05:18:32 pm
Have to check it with exhaust still but I only got 2" ish at 3000 and basically nothing at idle with headers. I did not mess around with sealing the engine though. I was told it might be a waste of time for this amount of vac.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 19, 2010, 06:18:21 pm
Have to check it with exhaust still but I only got 2" ish at 3000 and basically nothing at idle with headers. I did not mess around with sealing the engine though. I was told it might be a waste of time for this amount of vac.

How are your "breathers" fastened to your V/C's?  I heard that there needs to be a tight fit or the leakage will defeat the vacuum's purpose.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Fordota on August 19, 2010, 10:47:46 pm
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss216/sn0wpl0w/IMG_0992.jpg)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 19, 2010, 11:13:02 pm
Fordota --

Nice!

Please -- how about a pic of where they're welded into your exhaust?   :thanx:

Have you been driving your truck?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Fordota on August 20, 2010, 12:06:05 am
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,15697.225.html  (page 16 if it doesn't bring you there)

Haven't been driving it yet, but so close I am going crazy.....


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 20, 2010, 12:32:52 am
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,15697.225.html  (page 16 if it doesn't bring you there)

Haven't been driving it yet, but so close I am going crazy.....

Oh those aren't for O2 sensors?

I think that they are too close.  I'm going to weld mine after the header's "connection-point" and like a few inches behind the exhaust pipe "connection-point" like how Juiced-coupe has his.  I'm having a tough time finding his pic of his set-up.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Fordota on August 20, 2010, 10:12:40 am
Me too, I just put them in like the picture. I should have went with my gut.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on August 21, 2010, 12:29:42 am
I'm having a tough time finding his pic of his set-up.

Judging by your question in the other thread, I guess you found it.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Bradone on August 21, 2010, 03:14:17 am
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,15697.225.html  (page 16 if it doesn't bring you there)

Haven't been driving it yet, but so close I am going crazy.....

Oh those aren't for O2 sensors?

I think that they are too close.  I'm going to weld mine after the header's "connection-point" and like a few inches behind the exhaust pipe "connection-point" like how Juiced-coupe has his.  I'm having a tough time finding his pic of his set-up.

I have only done one set of long tubes and got the same results. I think it is problem with turbulence right in the collector. When I put the long tubes on my TBird they are going to be a couple inches back from the ball connector in the exhaust pipe.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb197/Bradone/93%20TBird%20True%20Duals/Long%20Tubes/DSCF0125.jpg[/img]](http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb197/Bradone/93%20TBird%20True%20Duals/Long%20Tubes/DSCF0125.jpg) (http://[img width=625 height=468)

The shorty installs worked really well 6-8" off the header.

Brad


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on August 21, 2010, 03:26:49 am
Teeing togeather a PVC system with an Evac system works great. PCV works great at idle Evacs dont, they work at high speed when the PCV shuts down. Using both crusing on the highway you might see PCV working at 50% and the Evac working at 50%.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Fordota on August 21, 2010, 11:37:56 am
I dont really see why that wouldnt work, but you'd be relying heavily on your check valves in the exhaust and your kinda begging to suck exhaust into your crank case and then intake if they fail.  :wonder:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 21, 2010, 11:45:42 am
I won't ever run a PCV system because with my OTS cam and it's duration I can assure you I don't need to further dilute the engine's incoming charge.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 21, 2010, 08:25:02 pm
Well the Jeg's header evac kit didn't work as planned.  It was a lot of crappy work in the heat and backwards results!   :bang


http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,25467.30/topicseen.html (http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,25467.30/topicseen.html)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 21, 2010, 09:09:11 pm
I just think that with this guys quote's help from Yellowbullet sometime in the past I figured out my problem --

"MEAN_SBC
04-21-2006, 11:03 PM
Just don't run them with mufflers... If there is any back pressure in the exhaust at all, the check valves won't open, and it's like running the engine at WOT with no breathers.... It'll push seals out like crazy..."



My new check valves are fine!  It's my 3 chamber Flowmaster mufflers that are creating back-pressure which is closing off my check valves which then is really sealing up the top side of my engine is why my crankcase pressure is rising!  Remember that on de-accel I was getting crankcase vacuum.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on August 22, 2010, 08:32:20 am
I just think that with this guys quote's help from Yellowbullet sometime in the past I figured out my problem --

"MEAN_SBC
04-21-2006, 11:03 PM
Just don't run them with mufflers... If there is any back pressure in the exhaust at all, the check valves won't open, and it's like running the engine at WOT with no breathers.... It'll push seals out like crazy..."



My new check valves are fine!  It's my 3 chamber Flowmaster mufflers that are creating back-pressure which is closing off my check valves which then is really sealing up the top side of my engine is why my crankcase pressure is rising!  Remember that on de-accel I was getting crankcase vacuum.

This has been MY experience and what I have preached all along.  

I use the header evac at the track with no issues with the turbo mufflers/tailpipes dropped.  I have 2lbs at idle (but have had as much as 5lbs in a previous edition which must have been sealed up real good.)   I've used the header evac on the street with turbo mufflers and as long as I do not get frisky and give it high RPM's I have no oil leakage issues.  I do not use full throttle in this condition or else the dip stick will pop up 3/4" and I will have oil to clean up off that side of the motor.  Can't be good for the seals.  I watched the vacuum gauge as I cruised around and confirmed that vacuum decreased to zero quickly as RPM increased with the mufflers on.  I attributed it to the backpressure added by the mufflers.  I have not watched the vacuum gauge at the track.  I have a hard enough time catching the 6400 rpm shift light let alone read a gauge . . . . .

I swap to PCV on the street (with mufflers/tailpies) and it works well and I can do whatever I want.  I have also used the PCV at the track with mufflers/tailpipes and did not have dipstick issues when the motor was built right (nearly 150 runs that way last year when I had to slow the car down due to being rollbarless.)  This hasn't always been the case though.

I know that header evac can work well when properly installed.  I had one motor that I ran a whole season which would blow out the doubled up valve cover gaskets every time the engine was rev'ved up beyond an idle when using a PVC (street or strip.)  It also leaked like a sieve out the rear main which I changed twice before realizing through this site that excessive back pressure was the cause.  That is when I installed the Mr. Gasket header evac.  At first it didn't seem to draw any vacuum, and then I discovered that the included valves did not do a good job of sealing.  I ran down to NAPA and bought the good recommended valves and the results were immediate.  No more gasket blow out and the rear main seal slowed down to just an annoying quarter sized drop after the car sat a week.  I was sold from then on and ran the car solely at the track for the rest of the season.  Later found out during the winter build that I had installed the 2nd ring of the piston upside down on several (if not all) pistons which created the excessive blowby.  Dumbass.   :duh  I can't tell you how many times I look at the rings now when I am preparing to stuff the pistons.

Never, ever trust the valves that come in the cheap evac kits. With the valves found in the Mr Gasket kit, I could blow through both directions.  Shaking it "might" allow the inferior disc to center properly once in awhile.  The NAPA valves still seal properly and are going on their 3rd year.   
  
Using open breathers offers no evac what-so-ever and tends to give the car an oily spell when driving with the windows down.  I don't like that.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 22, 2010, 08:20:56 pm
I ended up using the V/C push-in "oil seperators" and the 5/8" hose that I was using with the header evac kit as "breathers".  I pinched off the connected check valves and welded them shut.  Even though my 3 chamber Flowmasters suck with back-pressure my trailer park idiots can't stand my dual 3" exhaust 6:30 in the morning so I can't upgrade to something better which I know would be louder.  At least I have 1-3/4" headers with 3" collectors and 3" exhaust and not smaller!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on August 22, 2010, 08:41:00 pm
I pinched off the connected check valves and welded them shut. 

Personally, I would have just replaced the check valves with 1/2" pipe caps. That way you could use the system again if you got the itch.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 22, 2010, 08:42:16 pm
I pinched off the connected check valves and welded them shut.  

Personally, I would have just replaced the check valves with 1/2" pipe caps. That way you could use the system again if you got the itch.

My lady said that I'd better leave that exhaust alone before I get us kicked out of where we live.  All's I'd have to do is put on some Napa check valves . . .   :naughty:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on August 22, 2010, 11:38:18 pm
if you could fab in something similar to a prochamber, combined with magnaflows your car would be very quiet at idle and 1/4throttle

What about back-pressure compared to my Flowmasters?

How do you know this?

Do you have any kind of cross over in your exhaust? If not, even a simple H-pipe would tone down the idle noise.

And yes, the full body Magnaflows are quieter than any Flowmaster I have ever heard.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 23, 2010, 01:38:50 pm
the full bodied magnaflow is quite a bit quieter than a flowmaster at idle and part throttle, your neighbors would probably thank you

if you could fab in something similar to a prochamber, combined with magnaflows your car would be very quiet at idle and 1/4throttle

What about back-pressure compared to my Flowmasters?

How do you know this?

being a straight through muffler, there will be less back pressure and performance can potentially improve

I know this because Ive owned several exhaust setups over the years, this being one of them. on a different car I went from 3" H pipe to a prochamber, and even keeping the same mac mufflers(similiar to flows) it made a big difference in noise

the magnaflows are a lot quieter at idle and part throttle than a flowmaster

you might not like that it wont turn as many heads(being quieter and not as deep), but if you have a place to live and more power, Id call it a win win  :dunno

I would LOVE being quieter (so I don't get a ticket), have less back-pressure and make more power!!!

With these?  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-11229/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-11229/)

How is that possible?  How can it be quieter and make less back-pressure but make more power?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on August 23, 2010, 02:13:24 pm
I run 3" Magnaflows and was somewhat surprised at how much they do muffle the sound.  A x or H pipe would help quiet it down a bit further.  If you have 3 chamber Flowmasters instead of the 2 chamber, I'm not sure how much quieter it would be though.  I can tell you that after going to Magnaflows I will never go back to Flowmasters.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 23, 2010, 02:22:26 pm
I run 3" Magnaflows and was somewhat surprised at how much they do muffle the sound.  A x or H pipe would help quiet it down a bit further.  If you have 3 chamber Flowmasters instead of the 2 chamber, I'm not sure how much quieter it would be though.  I can tell you that after going to Magnaflows I will never go back to Flowmasters.

Why not?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on August 23, 2010, 02:51:44 pm
Because they are supposed to be lest restrictive and are quieter.  On my old engine I ran 2 1/4" Flowmasters with an H pipe.  I figured the 3" Magnaflow system with no x or H pipe would be much louder on this much more powerful engine and it wasn't.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 23, 2010, 04:01:36 pm
Quote
Do you have any kind of cross over in your exhaust? If not, even a simple H-pipe would tone down the idle noise.

And yes, the full body Magnaflows are quieter than any Flowmaster I have ever heard.

I agree on the H that would be simple and cheap, it does change the tone

the mufflers really make a big difference though


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 23, 2010, 05:03:34 pm
Thinking about it logically I would guess that the louder the muffler is compared to others the less restriction it offers which would also probably lessen back-pressure . . . remembering just how loud my Merc is with open-headers which is much less of a restriction and a lot less of back-pressure compared to being muffled!   :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on August 23, 2010, 05:16:46 pm
I just did this swap for a customer went from 2 1/2 3 chamber Flowamsters to 3inch x pipe and dynomax ultra flows it is quiter at idle and low rpms but when you get on it the beast is loose and its loud at wide open throttle I also used this type of muffler on my Mach with the header evac system and it worked fine.

Bam


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on August 23, 2010, 05:48:52 pm
I just did this swap for a customer went from 2 1/2 3 chamber Flowamsters to 3inch x pipe and dynomax ultra flows it is quiter at idle and low rpms but when you get on it the beast is loose and its loud at wide open throttle I also used this type of muffler on my Mach with the header evac system and it worked fine.

Bam

I believe it based on my experience.  The Dynomax Ultra Flow, Magnaflow, and Goerlich mufflers seem to be pretty much the same design.

I don't know why it works that way 69 Merc.  But, I imagine it has to do with the design.  Flowmasters seem have a lot of obstacles in the flow path to cancel out sound waves.  Not so with the perforated core straight threw designs.  Good question for someone who knows much more about it than I.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 23, 2010, 05:59:06 pm
I don't know why either.  I have only had Flowmasters on my Merc.  My current ones are loud at idle, decent at cruising and God-awful look-at-me-officer LOUD at WOT!  My neighbors hate me but the only good thing is that I don't get in wrecks because you hear me before you see me and that gets idiots' attention just like a Harley does.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on August 23, 2010, 06:02:33 pm
I don't get in wrecks because you hear me before you see me and that gets idiots' attention just like a Harley does.

My '89 hatch was the same way... until an old deaf man turned from the middle lane right in front of me.  The car never saw the road again after that.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 23, 2010, 06:05:00 pm
Well if you don't hear my Merc then praise God hopefully my "eagle-eyes" are seeing you and figuring what's the worst thing that you could do right in front or behind or on the side of me?
 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 24, 2010, 09:25:27 am
Thinking about it logically I would guess that the louder the muffler is compared to others the less restriction it offers which would also probably lessen back-pressure . . . remembering just how loud my Merc is with open-headers which is much less of a restriction and a lot less of back-pressure compared to being muffled!   :whistling:

just because a muffler is louder doesnt mean its less restrictive. just look at the designs and its easy to see the difference.the straight through mufflers are practically a straight pipe at WOT. at idle and part throttle, the exhaust expands through the perforations and resonates through stainless steel packing, almost like steel wool. a flowmaster is just a bunch of walls and chambers, those walls are restrictions and the sound just bounces around and echoes through the case, not a whole lot of sound dampening going on

all the respectable engine builders will tell you the straight through design is preferred over a chambered or baffled muffler. the full bodied straight through mufflers are quieter at idle and pat throttle because of the packing, at WOT they still scream, but its a different sound


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: speedoo51 on August 24, 2010, 05:42:22 pm
I can't tell from pic if you have any kind of tail pipes but it would help cut noise level.. Maybe some thing like this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-630810/   after the mufflers to take the edge off? Though the add states 3" in/out but odds are the inside necks down some [old world glass packs didn't] but maybe you could fab some thing that  could do about the same, i.e., take the edge off..


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 24, 2010, 05:45:05 pm
Thank you, sir.   :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on August 24, 2010, 06:31:22 pm
Some 3 pass 2.5" IMCO muffs at the rear and......


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on August 24, 2010, 10:55:08 pm
Some 3 pass 2.5" IMCO muffs at the rear and......

Does that come in 3"?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 25, 2010, 09:49:24 am
My muffled 3" is too restrictive as it is so of course I'm not going to put a smaller exhaust on.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Bradone on August 27, 2010, 02:41:33 am
Robert, go to Magnaflow and pick out your mufflers, then go to
http://www.performancepeddler.com/ (http://www.performancepeddler.com/) , look them up by number, and place an offer. Be like Captain Kirk! You will think theyn won't come close but they do and I have argued, didn't get the price lowered but they countered with free shipping. Fun supplier to deal with. My 2 cents, header evacs work, your system obviously doesn't.

Brad


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 27, 2010, 10:02:01 am
 :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on August 27, 2010, 10:34:34 am
Some 3 pass 2.5" IMCO muffs at the rear and......

Does that come in 3"?

The mufflers dont but the eletric cutouts do. Very quiet set up then just hit a switch and its as loud as one wants. No crawlig under the car at the drags. Some one passes you fast with a loud mufflered car. Hit the switch and blow by them. Ass you pass watch there jaw hit the floor. There is one issue with EFI you will likly need a seperate tune setting to open them and not loose performance do to better flow.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lonestang95 on August 27, 2010, 04:20:09 pm
I guess you are gonna have to convert to a carb robert. damnit.... :spit:
Not gonna lie that would be bad ass to have an electric cutout. Officer but i swear that loud exhaust was the corvette that was behind me :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 27, 2010, 04:41:27 pm
I guess you are gonna have to convert to a carb robert. damnit.... :spit:

I wouldn't drive an EFI car -- as long as Holley is still making carburetors!


Not gonna lie that would be bad ass to have an electric cutout. Officer but i swear that loud exhaust was the corvette that was behind me :whistling:

I looked into them because that would be awesome but they're like $400 a piece (one per side).   :bang


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on August 27, 2010, 04:45:36 pm
I looked into them because that would be awesome but they're like $400 a piece (one per side).   :bang

 :whistling:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-CSUM1805/


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 27, 2010, 04:48:10 pm
I obviously haven't checked in awhile.  Wow -- they sure have gone down in price.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lonestang95 on August 27, 2010, 04:49:45 pm
I guess you are gonna have to convert to a carb robert. damnit.... :spit:

I wouldn't drive an EFI car -- as long as Holley is still making carburetors!


Not gonna lie that would be bad ass to have an electric cutout. Officer but i swear that loud exhaust was the corvette that was behind me :whistling:
I know your car is carbed bud. i was only kidding. i realy wish we had some kind of sarcasm smiley on here. lol
I looked into them because that would be awesome but they're like $400 a piece (one per side).   :bang


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2010, 12:12:21 pm
Right now my Merc is in the trans shop getting fixed.  My bud the owner there said if I let him have it for a week it'll be fixed for free.  We've done lots of business together and he's a good guy.  It's nice who you know!

Reverse and 3rd gear were acting up.  Reverse would physically go into gear but the Merc wouldn't move at times.

And shifting from 2nd to 3rd with my manual VB would "flare" the engine rpm's up 500 or so and then go into 3rd.  1st gear was fine.  I thought that reverse and 1st were "connected".  He said that's true but also so is reverse and 3rd, too.

I dropped it off at his shop last Wednesday at 4pm so this Wednesday will be one week.   :P


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 02, 2010, 09:05:44 pm
Got my Merc back from the trans shop.  The owner showed me my reverse-high drum.  The bushing had failed and had scored the part of the drum where the sealing rings are supposed to stay.  Since the bushing was thrashed the drum was able to have some wiggle room.

No good.  This wiggle room was allowing the high pressure trans fluid to force it's way past the areas that it is needed to stay to make enough pressure to make the trans operate properly.  So my reverse gear didn't work too well and shifting into 3rd would flare.

My trans man found a core C5 drum.  He said that it was a little slimmer than my wasted C4 drum so he was able to pack in another clutch than before!  This thing shifts and operates better than it EVER has.

He did all of that for free because I'm a good customer.  I am REAL happy!   :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on September 02, 2010, 09:08:03 pm
That's awesome


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 08, 2010, 09:32:43 pm
A week or so ago Jayh had mentioned that he thought that my 2" four-hole carb spacer was no good and was hindering top-end power production.

You see I had a 2" four-hole carb spacer on top of a 2" open carb spacer.  This was working well with a 3000 stall T/C.  Recently I got a 4500 stall T/C.  Plenty loose just like I like it -- and so does my Merc!!

Well after work today I figured what the heck I've got nothing no lose by taking it off.  If it runs worse then I'll just put it back on.

Well I like it.  Because of my loose T/C I for sure don't notice if any TDL was lost.  And shifting gears while giving it at least half-way down on the gas pedal sure chirps them rear tires of mine more than before.  Quick burn-outs are even easier than before, too.

I like it!!!

Not to mention that since I just got 2" free before hitting my hood now -- I changed to a new 4" tall air filter.  A 4" because my 3" was too dirty-looking and I didn't want to wait for a 5" that I'm going to order soon.

So now the top of my carb is lower from the top of it's lid which is a bonus so the entering air doesn't have to slow down because having to turn such a bend anymore.  Nice!

Plus now my carb is 2" closer to the intake manifold so in the mornings when the engine is cold it will take less time to get the fuel system up to it's happy operating temperature.

So now I only have a 2" aluminum open carb spacer.

It is a win-win situation and I'm pleased.   :thanx: 


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 09, 2010, 10:36:56 am
Weird!

I thought that four-hole spacers were supposed to improve part-throttle driving conditions because the column of the hole under the carb was directing the air/fuel better.

Actually I'm thinking that the four-hole column under the carb makes the air/fuel pick up too much velocity and slam into bottom of the plenum which hurts low-end performance like it turned out was doing to my Merc.

I'm thinking this because with my four-hole spacer on my Merc in the morning with the engine cold the first couple of minutes pulling out of my driveway and then going along on the street and stopping and going for stop signs my engine would make a very slight stumble sound like the air/fuel wasn't getting to the cylinders right.  After a little bit this would stop.  With my loose T/C you couldn't feel it with the car but you could hear it.


Now that I've taken off the four-hole carb spacer this morning while driving to work on a relatively cold early morning I heard no stumbles at all!!!   :ban


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 09, 2010, 10:40:34 am
Talk about TDL!

With the four-hole spacer off this morning my rear tires spun too friggin' easily driving the same as I always do.

I have more power than ever!

That is the last time that I ever recommend a four-hole carb spacer!

I think that the only thing that they do is restrict the intake!

I still have my 2" open carb spacer and that I'm keeping!!!

Seriously.

 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on September 09, 2010, 12:10:23 pm
That's cool, sounds like a small change made a big difference.

You don't want to test it without the 2" spacer?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on September 09, 2010, 12:38:41 pm
Its a bit of trial an error sort of thing. One or the other might work better with a combo. There is also the tappered spacer. They seem to work well possibly the best of both worlds. I believe you stated using one of each stacked. Removing one of them would also reduce the plenum volume which might also be a benifit.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 09, 2010, 01:03:06 pm
That's cool, sounds like a small change made a big difference.

You don't want to test it without the 2" spacer?

I remember how it drove with no spacer.  My Merc has a RPM air-gap dual plane manifold.  The air-gap manifold has a tall plenum center divider.  The dual manifold is a restriction to the intake charge.  Honestly if I had more money I'd just buy a Vic Jr. manifold.  But money is real tight right now.  I am looking for an additional job for Saturday and Sunday . . .

When I put the 2" open spacer on top of my manifold it was like the engine got a 100 shot of spray.  Instead of each piston only being able to pull air/fuel through two barrels of the carb at WOT with the open spacer each piston was able to pull through all four barrels of the carb!

And the air/fuel coming out of the carb doesn't have to make such a tight bend to get to the cylinders because I've increased the plenum size which allows the air/fuel to travel faster!  Which equals = more power.

BIG difference.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on September 09, 2010, 02:04:52 pm
That car screams for a big block. ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 09, 2010, 02:20:21 pm
That car screams for a big block. ;D



Because I keep telling "her" to go on a diet but she won't listen to me???    :sofa:



No -- for real -- have you seen my shock-towers?  Let me attack my engine bay with some simple-green and I'll take some pics and post them here.

Getting 1-3/4 LT headers crammed into the engine bay was a 2 day PITA job but well worth it!  I did not dent or "hammer-ping" my headers not one bit.  What I ended up doing was denting and/or cutting away parts of my fire-wall to get in the headers.

Literally past my gas pedal you can see the ground and my C4 bellhousing and the headers and the back-side lower parts of the engine, too!   :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 09, 2010, 03:05:38 pm
That car screams for a big block. ;D

:whs:



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 351 windsor snake on September 10, 2010, 04:12:31 am
That car screams for a big block. ;D

I think This one


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 10, 2010, 09:53:40 am
I'm saving up for a 427ci SBF stroker that will be plenty fast for my street driving!   :naughty:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 01, 2010, 10:38:23 pm
Occasionally I find myself daydreaming that I come into some real money and get a 427ci with a Dart block and all the forged internal goodies with a sweet H/C/I set-up and dual turbos.



I could REALLY handle 1200hp or so and sweet Jesus I'd be loving it to pull up next to a couple of Ricers!!!





Just kidding about the Ricers at the street light because we ALL know how dangerous and illegal street racing is.  I've learned this.   :thanx:
 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jemp70 on October 01, 2010, 11:56:34 pm
There is a guy in my town that has the same car. He is always at apple bees. It's white with wire wheels and blue neon lights under it. It's a cool looking car.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 02, 2010, 11:21:35 am
There is a guy in my town that has the same car. He is always at apple bees. It's white with wire wheels and blue neon lights under it. It's a cool looking car.


Does it sound/look like it's engine is modified?



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jemp70 on October 02, 2010, 01:42:39 pm
Nope just clean and original. looks lowered, havent heard it run.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 16, 2011, 09:21:18 pm
Update -- this last week I've noticed the dreaded "death rattle".

It of course has been getting worse daily since I knew what it was in the back of my head and I figured that I'm going to get as much enjoyment out of it that I can safely so I have been still driving it rough like I have been this last ten years with this engine.

Today I was driving into Fullerton (a nice town about ten or so miles away) and it was really notice-able today.

Then on the way home it started getting even louder and even weirder sounding -- I floored it once and it kept up so I finished turning after a corner and checked for pedestrians or parked cars and floored it one more time.

It made a crazy sound like it was not running on all cylinders (kinda like when I used to blow a H/G) -- then it made a VERY loud bang and it shut itself off.  I saw a huge cloud of white smoke trailing me behind.

That loud bang scared some people who were talking in their front yard.  I looked at them and gave them the  :wtf: was that noise look!   :spit:


I knew right then that a rod had let go.

I pushed it home (with the help from four guys in the neighborhood).

The engine is seized.

I got out a real bright flashlight that I have and crawled under the car and sure enough saw a large hole in the oil pan up high right where my mini-starter is.

I guess that that would be #4 cylinder rod had let go?

It's kinda sad because my woman is real worried about my "mental state" because she knows that I can't afford a replacement engine right now but I'm OK with that.  I will be able to get to work by the public bus system.

I've had ten years of lots of fun with a stock bottom ended SBF 363W with a H/C/I and I've driven it like I've stolen it for a long time now.  They don't last forever.

And plus with my 4500rpm stall T/C this last six months my stock bottomed engine has been seeing 3000rpm - 6000rpm regularly.

My next stroker SBF 9.5" engine will have all forged internals!
 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on January 16, 2011, 11:42:31 pm
Dang!  Sorry to hear that. :'(


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on January 16, 2011, 11:43:00 pm
Damn that sucks Merc! Sucks even worse its your only ride. I'd been in the same boat if my car slung a rod.

Why didn't you try and baby it home?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on January 17, 2011, 12:05:34 am
Sorry to hear it kicked out a rod. From the sounds of it, the motor does not owe your anything.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on January 17, 2011, 12:40:38 am
sorry to hear about your ride....
If your looking for something just to get you rolling this might help
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pts/2162869787.html
If you were to buy it, im sure i can help ya pick it up.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 17, 2011, 09:45:03 am
Damn that sucks Merc! Sucks even worse its your only ride. I'd been in the same boat if my car slung a rod.

Why didn't you try and baby it home?


Because I was close to home and wanted it to go out with a bang.  Did it ever!   :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 17, 2011, 09:47:03 am
Sorry to hear it kicked out a rod. From the sounds of it, the motor does not owe you anything.



I agree.  It's been a very good engine for a long time now.  It's put up with my abuse.

That is one big reason why I'm not mad.  My girlfriend is still perplexed why I'm not mad and ranting and raving.   

:pimp


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on January 17, 2011, 09:54:51 am
well that sucks.

I would put something budget together to get it up and running and then build your serious motor as a spare


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 17, 2011, 09:59:28 am
sorry to hear about your ride....
If your looking for something just to get you rolling this might help
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pts/2162869787.html
If you were to buy it, im sure i can help ya pick it up.


Thanks, man.  That is an awesome offer on your part to help me.

The next engine I've already promised God and everyone else who is bored enough to listen to me will be all forged.

So I will save all my coins and dollars until I can make that happen.

Worst case scenario I could buy a used 1971 to 1973 VW bug because I can wrench on those and their engine/trans parts aren't expensive.  No power but they get OK mpg and will run forever (almost) if you do the regular maintenance on them.  And smog exempt!!!

Right now I'm going to be riding the bus with a positive attitude because I'd rather my old and beaten engine go than for me to wipe out my Merc in an accident!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on January 17, 2011, 10:34:25 am
Sorry about your luck man.  If we can help in anyway, call on us!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on January 17, 2011, 12:52:44 pm
Sorry to hear about the bad luck Robert!  I second the idea of getting a temp engine while you're building the monster.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FourtyOneFord on January 17, 2011, 05:22:27 pm
Sorry for your loss.
  It'll be fun to see what comes next.   :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Blue Oval on January 18, 2011, 12:51:11 am

 I guess all good things come to an end Robert.
 As you say, you can't complain. 10 years as a DD is a good run by anyone's standards.

 I'd have to agree though that you need a temp stocky to get you through. If you are going to build this big banger it'll suck  more money than you expect.
Usually these projects take longer than expected also.
 
 My last one took 27 years !  :jawdrop:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Captbb56 on January 18, 2011, 05:57:31 am
 Sorry to hear about your loss. Good luck with your next build!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on January 18, 2011, 09:21:44 am
didnt you have dished hypers anyway? you could get that motor on CL, throw your top end on and pick up pretty much where you left off. build the lottery motor on the side!

how would buying an early 70's bug be cheaper? think about it.  :chair


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 18, 2011, 09:47:12 am
didnt you have dished hypers anyway? you could get that motor on CL, throw your top end on and pick up pretty much where you left off. build the lottery motor on the side!


That is a good idea.   :wonder:


how would buying an early 70's bug be cheaper? think about it.  :chair


Not that it would be cheaper -- but that way I would have two cars and not just only the Merc.   :dunno

Right now I'm giving all of these good ideas lots of thought.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gresse on January 18, 2011, 12:13:32 pm
R.I.P engine. Looking forward to follow your next build.
I know the money feeling, I have to work as much extra I can to make it work, dam I even have to go to Germany for a week and install a machine. Hopefully some extra money.

Good Luck Robert.

André


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on January 18, 2011, 12:23:34 pm
sorry to hear about the motor. glad you're staying positive about...makes life much easier. i second the craigslisting and the offer you got from fordracing250. i hear you on the money thing, right now if my truck took a shit i dont know what i'd do...not to mention i'm so broke i have a hard time working on my mustang.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on January 18, 2011, 01:27:19 pm
Yowch!  Sorry to hear that, man.  I know what it's like to have the car down for extended periods, it ain't fun.  I'd be inclined to agree with going the CL short block route for now.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 18, 2011, 01:35:55 pm
Although having a 30 day city bus pass for $55 instead of spending at least $70 for gas a week is a huge savings that I'm going to apply towards my new stroker engine!

These past two days have shown me that the city bus isn't all that bad.   :P

I'm more so anticipating my new stroker engine which will have at least 600fwhp.

The more I can save the sooner I can enjoy some real power compared to my now dead 363W.  :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on January 19, 2011, 07:08:00 pm
so 70wk * 4.5weeks in a month is 315 you save - 55 for the bus thats 260 a month * 12 thats 3120 so we'll say the conservatively costs 7500, plus maybe 500 for new carb and 500 for whatever fluids and incidentals. so 8500, you should have that in about 3years.

if you buy the CL motor and put your top end on it, you should be able to get like 2000 pretty easily when you upgrade later


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 19, 2011, 07:50:51 pm
so 70wk * 4.5weeks in a month is 315 you save - 55 for the bus thats 260 a month * 12 thats 3120 so we'll say the conservatively costs 7500, plus maybe 500 for new carb and 500 for whatever fluids and incidentals. so 8500, you should have that in about 3years.

if you buy the CL motor and put your top end on it, you should be able to get like 2000 pretty easily when you upgrade later


Without a car I've figured that I can save $10K in a year EASY.

Plus what money I have now that will make for one badass 9.5" SBF stroker engine that will be my N/A dream.

Being without a DD ride will teach me more patience which God knows I need to learn.

I've noticed that Jim "Woody" Woods sells a Dart short block engine that is based off of the 351W block at his Fordstrokers.com website.

I'm looking at his bored and stroked 454ci SBF engine.  I think that engine would make my Merc "fast" and not just "OK" like it was last week ago.

I need to talk to him and find out what that engine in long block configuration with some T.E.A. TFS 205cc CNC heads, a nasty custom HR cam, a front-sump oil pan, oil pump, pick-up assembly and a timing cover would cost.  (I will supply the carb, intake manifold, valve covers, distributor, coil, wires, plugs and water pump.)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on January 19, 2011, 07:57:45 pm
Damn that sucks Merc! Sucks even worse its your only ride. I'd been in the same boat if my car slung a rod.

Why didn't you try and baby it home?


Because I was close to home and wanted it to go out with a bang.  Did it ever!   :whistling:

Truth be known, I would have probably done the same.  :spit:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Blue Oval on January 19, 2011, 08:36:16 pm

 Robert, don't forget to factor these into your costs.
 Is your diff up to it ?
 Is the trans up to it ?
 Maybe you'll need a new stall convertor as this new engine will have a truckload more torque ?
 You may need bigger headers ?
 Is your radiator/cooling system up to it ?
 Is your fuel line from the tank big enough ?

 These are things I have had to upgrade along with the cost of the new engine.
 It's usually more than you first think.

 just my .02 cents worth  :dunno
 


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 19, 2011, 09:05:26 pm

 Robert, don't forget to factor these into your costs.
 Is your diff up to it ?

Yes -- Ford 9" w/4.56:1 gear, Detroit TrueTrak for street tires only, 31 spline axles.  Modified suspension, too.


Is the trans up to it ?

My C4 trans has been modified to handle 700hp.

Maybe you'll need a new stall convertor as this new engine will have a truckload more torque ?

It should stall around 5500rpm which will be perfect for me!

You may need bigger headers?

That 454ci SBF engine would be optimized with at least 2" primary headers but right now I don't feel like cutting and welding up my shock towers.


Is your radiator/cooling system up to it ?

My current cooling system was also designed for 700hp.


Is your fuel line from the tank big enough ?

I have 1/2" from my tank to my pump to my carb.  I think that that will be enough.

I'm guessing a 6500rpm shift point.

 
just my .02 cents worth  :dunno

I have also welded in sub-frame connectors and have also "boxed my frame", too.

Very valid points and I thank you.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on January 20, 2011, 02:39:05 am
on a 454, i personally would be looking at some bigger heads like the TEA high ports or R heads


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on January 20, 2011, 07:25:15 am
for the most part an NA street motor kept under 6500 will never be enough. you get used to it and get sensititized. give it 6mos and your old combo would feel like a rocket. you dont even know how fast you car was. you could add 100ci, a little more head, the compression and rpm limitations make it less than a second faster depending on how well setup the old combo was.

there is a guy here local that had a set up pretty identical to yours but it had flattops and a solid flat in it. he only turned it to 62-6300. at 3000lbs it went 7.0 in 1/8 and he would dial 6.70 and run on 100shot


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 20, 2011, 09:29:47 am
on a 454, i personally would be looking at some bigger heads like the TEA high ports or R heads


Which have raised exhaust ports = they won't fit between my shock towers.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 20, 2011, 09:45:56 am
for the most part an NA street motor kept under 6500 will never be enough. you get used to it and get sensititized. give it 6mos and your old combo would feel like a rocket. you dont even know how fast you car was. you could add 100ci, a little more head, the compression and rpm limitations make it less than a second faster depending on how well setup the old combo was.


A stroker 454ci SBF would be a BIG upgrade compared to my seized 363W -- not in just bore but in stroke as well.  I will have to see what the engine builder says about a wise red-line for the engine will be.  It is my only car and of course my DD.

Jay Allen a while back told me that the T.E.A TFS 205cc CNC heads are some pretty large in-line heads and that with a Super Vic intake, a good carb and a good custom cam can make lots of steam -- he said enough to "scare the shit out of me" going WOT on the street.  My old RPM 170cc heads weren't nothing to brag about that is for sure!  Between those and some 205cc heads there is no comparison.

The 205cc heads also have stock exhaust port location which is nice because my 1-3/4" x 3" headers barely fit between my shock towers.

I'm guessing that the 454ci stroker will have a point more of compression than my old 363W did -- so like 10.5CR?

My old 363W made around 400hp.

A 454ci SBF stroker engine will make 600hp+ no problem.  That will feel like a HUGE performance upgrade in my Merc no doubt.

And whatever my old 363W would have run at the track -- more than a 200hp bump will be more than a second faster I'm sure.  Figure in the huge increase in torque, too.  Plus a good custom cam will achieve a much better average column of power than my old 363W's mismatched OTS parts ever did!!!
 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on January 20, 2011, 12:50:12 pm
The 4.100 stroke might be a better plan. I just don't like how tight the 4.250 stroke is after building one years ago.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 20, 2011, 01:20:37 pm
The 4.100 stroke might be a better plan. I just don't like how tight the 4.250 stroke is after building one years ago.


Agreed.  Thanks, man.

I just sent an email to Nicole at Fordstrokers.com for a quote for their 427ci SBF 9.5" decked stroker long block engine.

I'm wanting 600fwhp from 91 octane pump gas with a set of the good T.E.A. TFS TW 205cc CNC heads.

I'm now figuring that I don't need a Dart block because the new engine will stay N/A.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on January 20, 2011, 04:44:43 pm
Sorry about the motor. You will definatley like the extra cubes good luck and save your pennys.

Bam


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on January 21, 2011, 07:36:53 am
for the most part an NA street motor kept under 6500 will never be enough. you get used to it and get sensititized. give it 6mos and your old combo would feel like a rocket. you dont even know how fast you car was. you could add 100ci, a little more head, the compression and rpm limitations make it less than a second faster depending on how well setup the old combo was.


A stroker 454ci SBF would be a BIG upgrade compared to my seized 363W -- not in just bore but in stroke as well.  I will have to see what the engine builder says about a wise red-line for the engine will be.  It is my only car and of course my DD.

Jay Allen a while back told me that the T.E.A TFS 205cc CNC heads are some pretty large in-line heads and that with a Super Vic intake, a good carb and a good custom cam can make lots of steam -- he said enough to "scare the shit out of me" going WOT on the street.  My old RPM 170cc heads weren't nothing to brag about that is for sure!  Between those and some 205cc heads there is no comparison.

The 205cc heads also have stock exhaust port location which is nice because my 1-3/4" x 3" headers barely fit between my shock towers.

I'm guessing that the 454ci stroker will have a point more of compression than my old 363W did -- so like 10.5CR?

My old 363W made around 400hp.

A 454ci SBF stroker engine will make 600hp+ no problem.  That will feel like a HUGE performance upgrade in my Merc no doubt.

And whatever my old 363W would have run at the track -- more than a 200hp bump will be more than a second faster I'm sure.  Figure in the huge increase in torque, too.  Plus a good custom cam will achieve a much better average column of power than my old 363W's mismatched OTS parts ever did!!!
 :burnout

itd be like your old motor on a 150 shot


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on January 21, 2011, 09:30:22 am
for the most part an NA street motor kept under 6500 will never be enough. you get used to it and get sensititized. give it 6mos and your old combo would feel like a rocket. you dont even know how fast you car was. you could add 100ci, a little more head, the compression and rpm limitations make it less than a second faster depending on how well setup the old combo was.


A stroker 454ci SBF would be a BIG upgrade compared to my seized 363W -- not in just bore but in stroke as well.  I will have to see what the engine builder says about a wise red-line for the engine will be.  It is my only car and of course my DD.

Jay Allen a while back told me that the T.E.A TFS 205cc CNC heads are some pretty large in-line heads and that with a Super Vic intake, a good carb and a good custom cam can make lots of steam -- he said enough to "scare the shit out of me" going WOT on the street.  My old RPM 170cc heads weren't nothing to brag about that is for sure!  Between those and some 205cc heads there is no comparison.

The 205cc heads also have stock exhaust port location which is nice because my 1-3/4" x 3" headers barely fit between my shock towers.

I'm guessing that the 454ci stroker will have a point more of compression than my old 363W did -- so like 10.5CR?

My old 363W made around 400hp.

A 454ci SBF stroker engine will make 600hp+ no problem.  That will feel like a HUGE performance upgrade in my Merc no doubt.

And whatever my old 363W would have run at the track -- more than a 200hp bump will be more than a second faster I'm sure.  Figure in the huge increase in torque, too.  Plus a good custom cam will achieve a much better average column of power than my old 363W's mismatched OTS parts ever did!!!
 :burnout

itd be like your old motor on a 150 shot


What are you saying?

Plus -- I think that it will be better than a 150 shot!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on January 22, 2011, 01:22:54 pm
itd be like your old motor on a 150 shot

Are you just messing with Robert jayh?  :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on January 22, 2011, 10:03:30 pm
itd be like your old motor on a 150 shot

Are you just messing with Robert jayh?  :dunno

454 - 363 = 91 ci

a respectable for pump gas 1.5hp/ci = roughly 140 hp

average power? n2o all the way. a 150 shot will pick up 200lbft. you wont get that from 91ci on pump gas over his old setup

honestly I would put the car together with a used shortblock for maybe 1000-1200 and have transportation and still build the lottery motor on the side. nothing fun about riding jackstands for even a year let alone 3. maybe common sense, maybe a small kink in the road, maybe Im crazy. if it was my only transportation I would address the situation differently then if it was a nice weather/race car

 :dunno

sorry about the back news. best wishes  :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on January 22, 2011, 11:42:01 pm
itd be like your old motor on a 150 shot

Are you just messing with Robert jayh?  :dunno

454 - 363 = 91 ci

a respectable for pump gas 1.5hp/ci = roughly 140 hp

average power? n2o all the way. a 150 shot will pick up 200lbft. you wont get that from 91ci on pump gas over his old setup

honestly I would put the car together with a used shortblock for maybe 1000-1200 and have transportation and still build the lottery motor on the side. nothing fun about riding jackstands for even a year let alone 3. maybe common sense, maybe a small kink in the road, maybe Im crazy. if it was my only transportation I would address the situation differently then if it was a nice weather/race car

 :dunno

sorry about the back news. best wishes  :party

Really.  So how much nitrous will he go through on the street?  It's not free to fill a bottle.  You know it's a 100% street car.  What you are saying would be a very viable alternative at the track.  On the street it's silly unless you're talking illegal street racing.

So what should Robert do?  I don't know. :dunno  That's for him to decide.  If he can live with public transportation, then I say save the money and reach your goal a little quicker.  Better people than me have used public transportation and Robert lives in a darn nice area which should make it all the more pleasant. 

I say entry level 408 stroker kit limited to 6,500 rpm with the parts he has mentioned.  Will be way too much for the street unless he runs some drag radials or DOT slicks around town.  600 hp won't be a long shot and it should be reliable.  Gas will get expensive though. :jawdrop:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 12:50:19 pm
Changed my plans after three weeks with my Merc sitting at home because of it letting go of a rod earlier.

Now I'm saving for a 427ci SBF FordStrokers engine.  It will have T.E.A 205cc CNC heads, a custom HR billet camshaft and it will be all forged.

I will keep it N/A and the revs around 6500rpm so I believe that I don't need a Dart block nor 445ci with those 205cc heads.

This is a DD street Merc.  Hell right now I'm taking the city bus to work and back.  It's a bit of a drag but at least I'm able to go to work especially so I can earn that dollar to save, save and save some more!!!!!!!!

Even though I know that those heads are a bit small for a 427ci engine -- I don't feel like messing with my shock towers at this point and those 205cc heads are the biggest ones that I know of that have the exhaust ports in the stock location to help fit my 1-3/4" x 3" LT headers.
:burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on February 08, 2011, 01:30:34 pm
Thats a lot of stroke! I didnt think Woody liked that amount of stroke in a stock block?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on February 08, 2011, 01:32:48 pm
1 3/4" headers on a 427?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 02:26:37 pm
Thats a lot of stroke! I didnt think Woody liked that amount of stroke in a stock block?


Why not?   :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 02:27:27 pm
1 3/4" headers on a 427?


That's all that will fit between my shock towers.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on February 08, 2011, 03:41:58 pm
Thats a lot of stroke! I didnt think Woody liked that amount of stroke in a stock block?


Why not?   :dunno

More stress on the main caps I believe.

I wonder how much difference you'd see between a 427 and a 408/418 in your application.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on February 08, 2011, 03:52:41 pm
I am assuming you want longevity as well as power.

Build the 408.  Stock block 427s eat themselves


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on February 08, 2011, 04:21:59 pm
The RPM's are the key. If kept to 6500 rpm and lower, it should be ok.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 04:42:05 pm
Thats a lot of stroke! I didnt think Woody liked that amount of stroke in a stock block?


Why not?   :dunno

More stress on the main caps I believe.

I wonder how much difference you'd see between a 427 and a 408/418 in your application.


I am assuming you want longevity as well as power.

Build the 408.  Stock block 427s eat themselves


The RPM's are the key. If kept to 6500 rpm and lower, it should be ok.


I do want power.  Yet I do need longevity, too.

I need to seriously think about this then.

If I save for a Dart block build instead that will take me even more time to save.  (I don't know how much more the Dart block would add to my current invoice?)

Yet I also want to be able to drive my Merc daily like it's stolen just like I did my (4.06" x 3.5") 363W.  I don't want to have to worry every time I go WOT.

Maybe I should just have a 408ci built?  I wonder if I would be truly happy with a 205cc headed 408ci SBF?

Or save for a Dart block build?  How long can I remain patient saving the money is the real question?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Fordota on February 08, 2011, 04:54:08 pm
How come forged Robert? You trying to think ahead for a dart block in the future? With your rpms and stock block l thought a cast steel combo would be a good match? When l did mine everyone said that it was a waste because the block is the weak point.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 08, 2011, 05:11:04 pm
How come forged Robert? You trying to think ahead for a dart block in the future? With your rpms and stock block l thought a cast steel combo would be a good match? When l did mine everyone said that it was a waste because the block is the weak point.

Especially if using a late model roller block. Scat told me their cast cranks were good to 700+ in a 351 application. I have seen quite a few that pushed that well to the plus side with early blocks.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 05:17:55 pm
How come forged Robert? You trying to think ahead for a dart block in the future? With your rpms and stock block l thought a cast steel combo would be a good match? When l did mine everyone said that it was a waste because the block is the weak point.

Especially if using a late model roller block. Scat told me their cast cranks were good to 700+ in a 351 application. I have seen quite a few that pushed that well to the plus side with early blocks.


If I did decide to be patient and save up for a Dart block -- and I will not budge on the T.E.A. 205cc heads and 1-3/4" x 3" headers -- I wonder if a 445ci SBF stroker would be wise or "too big" for those heads and headers?  Should I only do a 427ci?   :dunno

Keeping with 205cc heads and those "small" headers I want to try and get as much average column power that I can afford with it drinking 91 octane pump gas.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 05:23:01 pm
It appears if my math is correct that the Dart block would be $2000 more?   :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 05:26:44 pm
Good God.  Decisions, decisions!!!

I guess that I will have to be patient and save up for a Dart block.

And if I do that then I want a good reward for my friggin' patience (which is tough for me even at almost 42 years of age) -- so why not turn that into a 445ci SBF engine?

Even though with "small" T.E.A. 205cc heads and some "tight" 1-3/4" x 3" LT headers it must be more powerful than a 427ci engine, right?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 08, 2011, 05:32:07 pm
All of them (408,418,427,445) are capable of making stupid power. You won't be disappointed with any of them.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on February 08, 2011, 05:37:34 pm
How much are you truely willing to spend on this engine?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 05:51:25 pm
How much are you truely willing to spend on this engine?


Why?   Whatcha thinkin'?  :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on February 08, 2011, 05:56:31 pm
Just thinking you need to pick a plan and stick with it... The direction your aiming for can and will cost you a decent amount of coin, but without a set plan you can end up spending that much more.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 06:04:41 pm
Just thinking you need to pick a plan and stick with it... The direction your aiming for can and will cost you a decent amount of coin, but without a set plan you can end up spending that much more.


OK.

I thought that I could have a good engine built for less than a Dart block 445ci which was my original intention because when I thought that 445ci idea my car was still running.

Now that my old engine threw a rod my initial thought was to instead save up just enough for a 427ci in a stock block and be happy with less cubes.

After learning some more -- my mind thought that I don't want to be paranoid at WOT if the stock block is going to give.

I want to enjoy the engine all that I can.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 06:13:20 pm
On a side note -- has anyone heard or seen of the Dart block's motor mount threaded hole locations to be a little bit different than the OEM block location?

Or anything geometrically different with the Dart block compared to the OEM block or will it be an easy "swap"?   :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on February 08, 2011, 06:28:20 pm
I think youll be fine using an early stock block....Naturally Aspirated, pump gas, 9.5-10:1 compression...

Your not building a 9000 rpm engine.

Biuld smart.....not everything needs a Dart block.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on February 08, 2011, 06:30:37 pm
I think youll be fine using an early stock block....Naturally Aspirated, pump gas, 9.5-10:1 compression...

Your not building a 9000 rpm engine.

Biuld smart.....not everything needs a Dart block.
Yep. Find a early block,  bore it to 4.030 and put a 4.100 arm in it. Put some good heads on it, and hang on. You can cam it to be done by 6500 rpms.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 09:27:46 pm
I think youll be fine using an early stock block....Naturally Aspirated, pump gas, 9.5-10:1 compression...

Your not building a 9000 rpm engine.

Biuld smart.....not everything needs a Dart block.


I think youll be fine using an early stock block....Naturally Aspirated, pump gas, 9.5-10:1 compression...

Your not building a 9000 rpm engine.

Biuld smart.....not everything needs a Dart block.
Yep. Find a early block,  bore it to 4.030 and put a 4.100 arm in it. Put some good heads on it, and hang on. You can cam it to be done by 6500 rpms.


I for sure want a roller cam -- no question about that.

Aren't early blocks non-roller?   :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 79289chase on February 08, 2011, 09:40:05 pm
Keeping it hydraulic or going to a solid roller? Either way link bar lifters would be the best bet wouldn't it? If going link bar it shouldn't matter what block is used should it?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 09:48:31 pm
Keeping it hydraulic or going to a solid roller? Either way link bar lifters would be the best bet wouldn't it? If going link bar it shouldn't matter what block is used should it?


I was thinking about that but I've never done it.  I've always had HFT cams and I don't want another one.

This time and from now on I'm going with a roller cam.

I was thinking about a HR cam but if Woody says that a TLSR cam would be OK for me in my DD Merc that sees 4500 miles per year then I might as well pull the trigger on a TLSR!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 79289chase on February 08, 2011, 09:55:48 pm
That's about what I told Jay my car would see a year when he did my TLSR and its cheaper to do in the older block because the HR lifters are super high for link bars. He also advised to check the lash at oil change type intervals. So far they haven't changed the 2 or 3 times I have checked them. But I might have 2k miles on the setup so far. Setting lash is easier for me than preload was another big thing I liked.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 09:59:50 pm
That's about what I told Jay my car would see a year when he did my TLSR and its cheaper to do in the older block because the HR lifters are super high for link bars. He also advised to check the lash at oil change type intervals. So far they haven't changed the 2 or 3 times I have checked them. But I might have 2k miles on the setup so far. Setting lash is easier for me than preload was another big thing I liked.


What displacement is your engine -- bore and stroke?

If I understand you correctly -- you have an old 351W block that was not an OEM roller block, right?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 79289chase on February 08, 2011, 10:05:17 pm
Nope little baby 347 but its in an older non roller block.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on February 08, 2011, 10:09:57 pm
Solid roller is no more a problem in an early block then it is in a Dart deal. I ran a set of Comp 838's in my old early setup with no problems.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 10:12:54 pm
For all of your help guys --   :thanx:

I believe that now I'm getting on the right track.

Now I have to decide between a 4" or a 4.1" stroke in an old block so it will last and I won't have to worry about WOT at either 6500rpm or 7000rpm -- whatever is wisest?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 10:14:50 pm
IOW -- whatever is wisest -- 6500rpm or 7000rpm AND 4" stroke or a 4.1" stroke in an old 351W non-roller block?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on February 08, 2011, 10:16:36 pm
For all of your help guys --   :thanx:

I believe that now I'm getting on the right track.

Now I have to decide between a 4" or a 4.1" stroke in an old block so it will last and I won't have to worry about WOT at either 6500rpm or 7000rpm -- whatever is wisest?

With cubes arent gonna need all the rpm dude......thats the beauty of it.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 10:20:48 pm
For all of your help guys --   :thanx:

I believe that now I'm getting on the right track.

Now I have to decide between a 4" or a 4.1" stroke in an old block so it will last and I won't have to worry about WOT at either 6500rpm or 7000rpm -- whatever is wisest?

With cubes arent gonna need all the rpm dude......thats the beauty of it.


OK.  6500rpm it is.

Do you agree with Outlaw Bill that a 4.1" stroke red-lining at 6500rpm would be OK for an old block?

I will have a 5000rpm stall T/C, 4.56 rear gear and 26" tires and you can believe me that the engine will see WOT several times a day Monday through Friday.  (I'm not joking.)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on February 08, 2011, 10:24:40 pm
I always agree with Bill.....Hes way more knowledgable then me.

Only thing I would look into, is find out from Jim what its gonna take to prep the block for a 4.100 crank as far as notching/clearancing.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 79289chase on February 08, 2011, 10:25:56 pm
Robert your attitude about your car is awesome. I love it. Most people won't admit or tell you they drive the shit out of stuff but you are 100% honest I think when you say you are gonna drive the shit out of it daily.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 10:31:11 pm
I always agree with Bill.....Hes way more knowledgable then me.

Only thing I would look into, is find out from Jim what its gonna take to prep the block for a 4.100 crank as far as notching/clearancing.


I will and thank you and the others who help me!  You guys are a righteous group!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on February 08, 2011, 10:34:55 pm
We try ;D


Theres a guy on HardCore5.0.....his name is Tim.....he had a 408 with 170cc Twisted Wedges with a faily mild set-up in a Fox body stang running deep 10's.






Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 10:36:20 pm
Robert your attitude about your car is awesome. I love it. Most people won't admit or tell you they drive the shit out of stuff but you are 100% honest I think when you say you are gonna drive the shit out of it daily.


I did with the old 363W for ten years until it finally put a rod through the oil pan at WOT three weeks ago and will certainly drive it hard when I get the new engine.

I can't stand slow cars.  I honestly will keep riding the city bus to work to save gas money until I have the new engine paid for.

I haven't hit anything while driving since I got sober for the last thirteen years.   :whistling:

God must look out for me -- I've also only gotten one speeding ticket in the last ten years.
 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 79289chase on February 08, 2011, 10:41:32 pm
I know the Merc is your DD but do you have another vehicle for transportation? I wish I lived somewhere where it was 60-70 everyday so I could DD my rustang year round.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 93mustank on February 08, 2011, 11:05:37 pm
Same guy said a bigger csa or cc tw would not go faster.
We try ;D


Theres a guy on HardCore5.0.....his name is Tim.....he had a 408 with 170cc Twisted Wedges with a faily mild set-up in a Fox body stang running deep 10's.







Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 11:11:17 pm
Same guy said a bigger csa or cc tw would not go faster.
We try ;D


Theres a guy on HardCore5.0.....his name is Tim.....he had a 408 with 170cc Twisted Wedges with a faily mild set-up in a Fox body stang running deep 10's.







Did he mean unless he changed his cam, too?   :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Fordota on February 08, 2011, 11:12:02 pm
We try ;D


Theres a guy on HardCore5.0.....his name is Tim.....he had a 408 with 170cc Twisted Wedges with a faily mild set-up in a Fox body stang running deep 10's.






Thats kinda cool. Although Im sure its a totally different engine I believe thats about like mine. TW 170's are about like 180 everything else right? Anyhow, just the first 408/418 I have noticed with as small heads as mine.

I think the 4.100 cranks just drop right in Rich.  :wonder:

Thats what my setup is Robert. 4.100 stroke, stock late model block with link bar lifters and a 6500 rpm limit. Woody said no worries.

Dude your gonna love the power. My 4200 lb toyota with big tires furnishes me with endless grins. I have never even revved it up over 5000 rpm yet lol. I simply cannot believe this thing is a small block. Its just instant massive power. My dad had a nicely built 390 FE in his last F250. He never thought I would have that much power out of a small block. This 418 has SOOOOO much more power he could not believe it.

Basically, I am excited for you.  ;)

I could not imagine tiny tires and a 5000 rpm stall (OMG!)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 11:13:32 pm
I know the Merc is your DD but do you have another vehicle for transportation? I wish I lived somewhere where it was 60-70 everyday so I could DD my rustang year round.


My girl has a 1971 VW bug but Monday through Friday she needs to use it so I ride the bus.  On the weekend we can share it.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 11:16:33 pm
We try ;D


Theres a guy on HardCore5.0.....his name is Tim.....he had a 408 with 170cc Twisted Wedges with a faily mild set-up in a Fox body stang running deep 10's.






Thats kinda cool. Although Im sure its a totally different engine I believe thats about like mine. TW 170's are about like 180 everything else right? Anyhow, just the first 408/418 I have noticed with as small heads as mine.

I think the 4.100 cranks just drop right in Rich.  :wonder:

Thats what my setup is Robert. 4.100 stroke, stock late model block with link bar lifters and a 6500 rpm limit. Woody said no worries.

Dude your gonna love the power. My 4200 lb toyota with big tires furnishes me with endless grins. I have never even revved it up over 5000 rpm yet lol. I simply cannot believe this thing is a small block. Its just instant massive power. My dad had a nicely built 390 FE in his last F250. He never thought I would have that much power out of a small block. This 418 has SOOOOO much more power he could not believe it.

Basically, I am excited for you.  ;)

I could not imagine tiny tires and a 5000 rpm stall (OMG!)


Dustin -- just to clarify -- your 418ci SBF is a stock late model block?  As in roller ready?

Or is it a early model block that is much stronger than the late model that is not roller ready?

With tiny tires and a 5000rpm T/C I'll learn to take off slowly and then in 2nd or 3rd I will be able to get happy with the gas pedal.
 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 79289chase on February 08, 2011, 11:19:34 pm
Man that stinks. It reminds me of my high school days....the rustang was always tore up and I was the only senior in the school walking to school. Luckily you live in an area that has a mass transit system in place so you can still get yourself to work. Hopefully you can get the ole Merc back on the road in a timely manner.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 08, 2011, 11:21:11 pm
Man that stinks. It reminds me of my high school days....the rustang was always tore up and I was the only senior in the school walking to school. Luckily you live in an area that has a mass transit system in place so you can still get yourself to work. Hopefully you can get the ole Merc back on the road in a timely manner.


God knows that I'm trying.   :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 09, 2011, 12:28:12 am
That's about what I told Jay my car would see a year when he did my TLSR and its cheaper to do in the older block because the HR lifters are super high for link bars. He also advised to check the lash at oil change type intervals. So far they haven't changed the 2 or 3 times I have checked them. But I might have 2k miles on the setup so far. Setting lash is easier for me than preload was another big thing I liked.

Some of what determines longevity depends on the lobe designs available.  The only one that can answer the question of solid or hydraulic roller for your applicaiton is the person who designs the cam.  Woody will fill you in when the time comes and I'm sure he'll have the best available at his disposal.

Same guy said a bigger csa or cc tw would not go faster.
We try ;D


Theres a guy on HardCore5.0.....his name is Tim.....he had a 408 with 170cc Twisted Wedges with a faily mild set-up in a Fox body stang running deep 10's.






Gray86hatch over on hardcore50.  Yeah, and he ran faster with a blower set-up (without the blower) and much larger cc TW heads in the same car in one session.  Plus, those "170" cc TW heads he had were a hair larger and had some very good work done to them.  These were not a stock set of heads.  Not taking away from what the guy accomplished, just saying.

His car was VERY well set-up and he had a ton of time in it getting it to where it was.  The guy is smart, very dedicated, and deserves a ton of credit.  Wish I had half the dedication he has.  However, it's by no means a simple low ten second 170 cc TW head 408.  The average guy will end up terribly disappointed if they try to mimic that combo as it appears at first glance expecting his results.

Robert, I would personally keep the rpm at or under 6,500 rpm with how you'll be beating on it.  If it were me a Dart block with Cleveland mains would be the way to go if you want more rpm (which when done right will equal more power).  Anybody know what rpm his current converter is more suited to?

The problem with making all that power with a Dart block and higher rpm will be that you could start tearing the car up.  There's a bunch of little stuff that goes along with making a ton of power.  You want to be safe and you don't want to start damaging or destroying everything around the engine. 

I personally feel that with what you have a stock block, link bar lifter, 4.1" cast crank deal will be the wisest choice not only monetarily, but also for pure enjoyment and attainability.  Some say the cast crank can be an advantage in this type of application because it'll absorb more harmonics and such.  Like said earlier, the good aftermarket cast stroker cranks are darn strong.  With Woody in charge or the build you'll know it's going to be done right as well.

A cast crank 418 with 205 TW heads and proper supporting cast should make more power than you'll know what to do with on a street tire.  You mention babying it until second and third.  I wouldn't be surprised if second is worthless at WOT as it'll just smoke the tires.  It also wouldn't surprise me in the least if third could get dangerous under certain conditions as well.

We all like to dream big.  Unfortunately for just about all of us we need to find the happy medium between our dream build and what is responsible and attainable.  I wish you the best and can't wait to hear your excitement after the first test drive. :burnout



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 09, 2011, 12:44:27 am
Thanks, Nate.

I will for SURE let you guys know about my first test drive!   :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: goober on February 09, 2011, 01:10:32 am
... A cast crank 418 with 205 TW heads and proper supporting cast should make more power than you'll know what to do with on a street tire.  You mention babying it until second and third.  I wouldn't be surprised if second is worthless at WOT as it'll just smoke the tires.  It also wouldn't surprise me in the least if third could get dangerous under certain conditions as well.

We all like to dream big.  Unfortunately for just about all of us we need to find the happy medium between our dream build and what is responsible and attainable.  I wish you the best and can't wait to hear your excitement after the first test drive. :burnout


:clap

I believe a 205cc headed 408/418 in an early block, set up correctly, will be MORE than enough for the Merc. Plus it would be more impressive to have a 408 that runs like a scalded dog.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Fordota on February 09, 2011, 01:19:41 am
It also wouldn't surprise me in the least if third could get dangerous under certain conditions as well.

I'll try to put this in perspective for you. My rig, 4200 lbs, 418w, 37x14.5 tires, 4.88 gears (so not geared low)

Randomly downshifted to third one day on an almost completely dry day in a straight line while going 55.

COMPLETELY SIDEWAYS

Never getting over 5000.

Dude, your gonna have a LOT of motor.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on February 09, 2011, 08:26:46 am
get yourself a 28x10.5 DOT slick or 275/60/15 DR

is your converter a custom piece built locally? will they restall it? you may want to have restalled so its a little tighter in front of the new motor. your cam will dictate this

I think gray86/Tim has the port as efficient as it can be at that valve size/bore.(2.02/4.03?) it would be interesting to look down those ports to say the least. with more valve its hard to see how it wouldnt want more cross section?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 09, 2011, 09:48:07 am
get yourself a 28x10.5 DOT slick or 275/60/15 DR


In that case I'm hearing that I will need this tire -- M/T 325/50R15.  I've cut out a lot on my rear body at the wheel-well.  I will have to get those M/T to help with traction and they will barely fit with no rubbing.  God I love those 13,000rpm cut-saws!  (See the pic below for the M/T)


is your converter a custom piece built locally? will they restall it? you may want to have restalled so its a little tighter in front of the new motor.


Yes -- it's a custom local T/C -- they will restall it if I need it that way.  I have to drive it and see.

On my old 363W it did a rolling 3rd stall at 10mph of 4500rpm.

If I'm going to be shifting at 6500rpm with the 418ci SBF engine then I can handle up to a 5500rpm stall T/C.


your cam will dictate this


What do you mean?  With the 418ci I'm not worried about peak torque rpm -- just 1000rpm to 1500rpm below my 6500rpm shift point.   ;)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 09, 2011, 03:18:00 pm
How come forged Robert? You trying to think ahead for a dart block in the future? With your rpms and stock block l thought a cast steel combo would be a good match? When l did mine everyone said that it was a waste because the block is the weak point.


I don't think that you could get a 4.1" stroke except for with a forged crank?   :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Fordota on February 09, 2011, 03:29:39 pm
mines cast CHP


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on February 09, 2011, 04:46:20 pm
Give me a little time and I will give you the 315/60/15 radials that are on my car... They are a couple years old, but lots of tread left. not sure if im switching to slicks or sticking to raidals but definatly going a different size.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 09, 2011, 04:54:31 pm
Give me a little time and I will give you the 315/60/15 radials that are on my car... They are a couple years old, but lots of tread left. not sure if im switching to slicks or sticking to raidals but definatly going a different size.


Thanks for the offer.  That is very good.

I figured that those 60 series tires of yours are almost 30" tall.  I can squeeze in some 28" tires but I don't think that some 30" will fit.

 :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on February 09, 2011, 04:57:55 pm
yes the are 30's, im looking to drop down to 28's


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 09, 2011, 05:13:52 pm
I'm at 26" right now -- I want to go to 28".


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 09, 2011, 09:28:57 pm
I'm learning as I'm going.

I learned some more good info and I know that I am hard on my engines daily.  My old 363W with a 4500rpm T/C I daily revved to 6000rpm.

I'm sure that I will drive the new engine just as roughly!   :ahprepare:

So I am going to go with a 408ci SBF stroker.

I don't want to aggravate the main caps more than I will be daily so I want to keep the stroke at 4" and not more with a stock 351W block.

Thanks everyone again for you help and keep coming back, OK?   :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on February 10, 2011, 02:44:03 am
Wimp.  OK, smart wimp. ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on February 27, 2011, 02:32:49 pm
Hey Robert, are you dead set on the 205 TWs? I was just on the Fox Lake sight and they are offering a nice cnc package for the RPMs. It doesn't quite flow with the 205s, but outflows the 190s and is right with the cnc 185s and as cast TW-Rs. They are doing it for just under $1000. Just a thought.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 27, 2011, 04:26:04 pm
Hey Robert, are you dead set on the 205 TWs? I was just on the Fox Lake sight and they are offering a nice cnc package for the RPMs. It doesn't quite flow with the 205s, but outflows the 190s and is right with the cnc 185s and as cast TW-Rs. They are doing it for just under $1000. Just a thought.


I truly appreciate you looking out for me.  That is top notch, man!

I do need those TW 205cc heads because a smart racer who knows his stuff told me that because of my shock-tower space-killers that that is the best head that I can fit between them with a decent exhaust package.  (Plus my RPM heads have been around the block for a few miles, now.)   ;)

My Merc and I weigh 4000# together.

With my old 363W engine I remember wishing that I had more top-end power to move our fat asses and that old engine was not really cutting it.  It tried but didn't make enough power.

My new 408ci SBF stroker I've been told by my engine builder will make a difference beyond words.  Music to my ears.

Thanks again juiced coupe.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on February 28, 2011, 04:12:15 pm
good luck with whatever you choose. thinking out loud, the rpm's also have stock exhaust port location and Im sure they come with a valve job when a cnc is done


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on February 28, 2011, 04:36:21 pm
good luck with whatever you choose. thinking out loud, the rpm's also have stock exhaust port location and Im sure they come with a valve job when a cnc is done


But the TW 205cc will make more power.    :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on February 28, 2011, 11:42:33 pm
good luck with whatever you choose. thinking out loud, the rpm's also have stock exhaust port location and Im sure they come with a valve job when a cnc is done
You got to becareful.... You are building a street car and wanting it to be a race car.... California is not a friendly state anymore.. If a cop ever wanted to be a dick, he could bust you for street racing, which is now a felony, lose your license, and they crush your car... Id hate to see that happen but it does... There is a reason I quit street racing a long time ago, im still in the loop of all the big $$$ races but you dont see me going, its not worth it.


But the TW 205cc will make more power.    :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 01, 2011, 09:53:05 am

You got to be careful.... You are building a street car and wanting it to be a race car.... California is not a friendly state anymore.. If a cop ever wanted to be a dick, he could bust you for street racing, which is now a felony, lose your license, and they crush your car... Id hate to see that happen but it does... There is a reason I quit street racing a long time ago, I'm still in the loop of all the big $$$ races but you don't see me going, its not worth it.


Thanks for your good advice.  I will heed that sound advice.

Even if I wanted to street race (which I don't) with my 26" street tires, a 408ci stroker and a 5000rpm T/C it ain't going to be happening.

Before I die my Merc will see the track!   :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on March 01, 2011, 04:30:15 pm
I wasnt talking only about street racing... smoking the tires, getting the wholeshot off the light, all kinds of things these days can get you into trouble.. Im just saying becareful with what you have/want... Hell I wanna see you run at the track one day once you get her up n running again.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on March 01, 2011, 05:07:30 pm
I have 3 buddies they gave street racing tickets because they took off as the light turned gree. They never actually sped


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on March 01, 2011, 05:12:58 pm
I have 3 buddies they gave street racing tickets because they took off as the light turned gree. They never actually sped

Exhibition of speed.  I'm pretty sure they don't have the right to crush your car over that. ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 01, 2011, 05:57:36 pm
I wasnt talking only about street racing... smoking the tires, getting the wholeshot off the light, all kinds of things these days can get you into trouble.. Im just saying becareful with what you have/want... Hell I wanna see you run at the track one day once you get her up n running again.


Will do.

Before I go to Irwindale I will let everyone know.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on March 01, 2011, 06:01:40 pm
If you're alone you'll get an exhibition ticket, BTDT.  If there's a car next to you a shady cop could call it street racing.  They'll even ticket you for "spectating an illegal drag race" if you're watching, BTDT.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 01, 2011, 10:56:37 pm
 :btw:     I just over the telephone paid a good part of my FordStrokers invoice for my 408ci stroker SBF engine.

I'm officially in line!

Tomorrow I'll get the cam-sheet.

True to my given nick-name "The Ricer King" my HR cam is going to let everyone know at idle that it means business.  (Of course as long as it's "bite is just as good as it's bark" . . .)

It might even rattle my teeth a lil' bit waiting at the stoplight?  Ha!    :naughty:

If I need an electric vacuum pump to make my power-brakes work then I can work with that -  LOL!!!   :naughty:

 :ahprepare:         :burnout



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on March 01, 2011, 11:00:35 pm
Great news Robert. Glad to see this get moving


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 01, 2011, 11:04:39 pm
Great news Robert.


 :thanx:


Glad to see this get moving


Me, too.  The city bus does get old after awhile.

When you ask the driver kindly if they can go any faster they give you one of those looks like -- are you crazy?!?  :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on March 01, 2011, 11:08:58 pm
If I need an electric vacuum pump to make my power-brakes work then I can work with that -  LOL!!!  

With a HR for a street car, I doubt you'll have a problem. My junk only has 9" of vacuum at idle and my power brakes work fine.

I just over the telephone paid a good part of my FordStrokers invoice for my 408ci stroker SBF engine.

Sounds good

True to my given nick-name "The Ricer King"

Make no mistake, you earned that name.  :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on March 02, 2011, 08:01:55 am

True to my given nick-name "The Ricer King"

Can you clarify what that means in your parts?  A ricer in my parts is those buzzy little imports with the big 5" megaphone exhaust tips.  A king of those would not be something you'd want to be  :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on March 02, 2011, 09:03:34 am
it means he does 15mph presses on the street with street tires instead of going to the track and running from a dig on slicks(like a real man!LOL)  :laugh


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 02, 2011, 09:47:00 am

True to my given nick-name "The Ricer King"

Can you clarify what that means in your parts?  A ricer in my parts is those buzzy little imports with the big 5" megaphone exhaust tips.  A king of those would not be something you'd want to be  :dunno


Because earlier in a different thread I had said that when I used to street race I've never been beaten by a N/A import.  When I say street race I mean two strangers at a stoplight waiting for a green.

Then some members said that they know this person and that person with an import who would smoke me and that my Merc wasn't that fast.

I said that I've never been beaten by a N/A import -- but not that I couldn't be beaten -- just that I had never been.

I also said that for a DD my Merc wasn't "fast" but that it was "OK".

Also -- I kinda liked that nickname for my own personal reason -- as strange as it sounds -- many guys that I've talked with would rather have a "sleeper"-type cam where it "idles like a kitten" but when at WOT it really wakes up.

I on the other hand want a cam that at idle sounds like it means business and then at WOT "unleashes the dogs of war".    :whistling:

I'm guessing that my upcoming 408ci SBF stroker engine will make my Merc "fast" for a DD on street tires.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 02, 2011, 09:49:26 am
it means he does 15mph presses on the street with street tires instead of going to the track and running from a dig on slicks(like a real man!LOL)  :laugh


With the new 408ci engine I'll probably be graduating to 40mph presses in 3rd gear with my manual VB C4 through a 5000rpm T/C.    :party

 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FourtyOneFord on March 02, 2011, 03:39:41 pm
 :burnout    BAD ASS


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on March 02, 2011, 04:11:08 pm
 :party

Thats great news Robert.  Glad to hear its moving along.

When you get around to putting it all together I hope you take and post lots of pictures...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 02, 2011, 04:13:07 pm
:party

Thats great news Robert.  Glad to hear its moving along.

When you get around to putting it all together I hope you take and post lots of pictures...


OK I will post lots of pics even though it's not as good looking as all of your (everyone) Mustangs!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on March 02, 2011, 04:16:36 pm
All they're going to see is the rear bumper right?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 02, 2011, 04:17:13 pm
All they're going to see is the rear bumper right?


With slicks yep!    :spit:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Blue Oval on March 02, 2011, 06:37:25 pm

 And from the front all they will see is your loose converter when it wheel stands ?  :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on March 02, 2011, 09:07:48 pm
Glad to hear things are moving along Robert. :clap


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 02, 2011, 09:09:38 pm

 And from the front all they will see is your loose converter when it wheel stands ?  :whistling:


 :sbftits:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 02, 2011, 09:11:11 pm
Glad to hear things are moving along Robert. :clap


 :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Nitro on March 03, 2011, 01:12:49 pm
Congrats on the 408  :rock
It will de worth dealing with the bus for awhile longer  :yes:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 03, 2011, 01:35:35 pm
Congrats on the 408  :rock
It will de worth dealing with the bus for awhile longer  :yes:



 :ban

Wow -- you have those TW 205cc heads on a 347ci?   What cam do you have?

How do those heads perform on your ride?

 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Nitro on March 03, 2011, 08:50:37 pm
Congrats on the 408  :rock
It will de worth dealing with the bus for awhile longer  :yes:



 :ban

Wow -- you have those TW 205cc heads on a 347ci?   What cam do you have?

How do those heads perform on your ride?

Cam specs are. Duration at .050  intake 236* exhaust 248*
                                            Lift.                  .579"               .579"
                                            LSA  113*
My cam was speced for a 347 with tw 170s , rpm intake , and a670 street avenger carb.
This setup performed good and was plenty for my light in the ass Ranger
After upgrading to my current setup I was like  :jawdrop: I never knew a sbf could run like this.
IMO the Tw 205s are just bad ass. I'm very pleased with them. :burnout The cam is a different story.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: tx90vertgt on March 03, 2011, 09:16:51 pm
Quote
OK I will post lots of pics even though it's not as good looking as all of your (everyone) Mustangs!

Don't kid yourself.  That Montego is a sexy mofo.  A real man ain't scared of a big bitch  :drink


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 03, 2011, 09:31:06 pm
Congrats on the 408  :rock
It will de worth dealing with the bus for awhile longer  :yes:



 :ban

Wow -- you have those TW 205cc heads on a 347ci?   What cam do you have?

How do those heads perform on your ride?

Cam specs are. Duration at .050  intake 236* exhaust 248*
                                            Lift.                  .579"               .579"
                                            LSA  113*
My cam was speced for a 347 with tw 170s , rpm intake , and a670 street avenger carb.
This setup performed good and was plenty for my light in the ass Ranger
After upgrading to my current setup I was like  :jawdrop: I never knew a sbf could run like this.
IMO the Tw 205s are just bad ass. I'm very pleased with them. :burnout The cam is a different story.


What don't you like about your cam?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 03, 2011, 09:32:22 pm
Quote
OK I will post lots of pics even though it's not as good looking as all of your (everyone) Mustangs!

Don't kid yourself.  That Montego is a sexy mofo.  A real man ain't scared of a big bitch  :drink


 :thanx:

I mean that it needs body work and a good paint job.

I will get to that -- just takes time and money as you know.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: tx90vertgt on March 03, 2011, 09:59:16 pm
Quote
OK I will post lots of pics even though it's not as good looking as all of your (everyone) Mustangs!

Don't kid yourself.  That Montego is a sexy mofo.  A real man ain't scared of a big bitch  :drink


 :thanx:

I mean that it needs body work and a good paint job.

I will get to that -- just takes time and money as you know.



I think we all know about the money thing.  My crazy ass is gathering parts/tools to do the painting/bodywork myself.




Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Nitro on March 03, 2011, 10:12:10 pm
Quote from: 69 Merc link=topic=27178.msg314425#msg314425 date=129920586
What don't you like about your cam?

The engine runs like a beast just doesn't have the ground shaking idle I was looking for
And I fill I'm leaving some power left in it with a cam for the other heads,intake.
Maybe I just need to leave it alone since it is a stock block. :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 03, 2011, 10:40:48 pm
What don't you like about your cam?



The engine runs like a beast just doesn't have the ground shaking idle I was looking for
And I feel I'm leaving some power left in it with a cam for the other heads,intake.
Maybe I just need to leave it alone since it is a stock block. :dunno


I don't know how much N/A power a stock 8.2" block can handle?  Ask Woody about that and how many rpm's that he recommends as long as you keep it N/A.

You will have a better performing ride if you have another custom cam made for your current ride's combo.  How much better I don't know but they should be able to match it better and give you the idle characteristics that you want.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Goody_Seven on March 12, 2011, 02:29:18 pm

The engine runs like a beast just doesn't have the ground shaking idle I was looking for
And I fill I'm leaving some power left in it with a cam for the other heads,intake.
Maybe I just need to leave it alone since it is a stock block. :dunno

XFI lobes are aggressive, get the power without the ground shaking idle, doesn't mean you are leaving a ton of power on the table.  Sure you could gain some more, but you have to decide if you are gaining $450 worth.  Your vavletrain needs to be good for that cam, really good.

That's right Robert, your thread is currently HIJACKED!!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on March 12, 2011, 03:30:03 pm
 :tjacking:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Nitro on March 14, 2011, 12:27:35 pm

The engine runs like a beast just doesn't have the ground shaking idle I was looking for
And I fill I'm leaving some power left in it with a cam for the other heads,intake.
Maybe I just need to leave it alone since it is a stock block. :dunno



XFI lobes are aggressive, get the power without the ground shaking idle, doesn't mean you are leaving a ton of power on the table.  Sure you could gain some more, but you have to decide if you are gaining $450 worth.  Your vavletrain needs to be good for that cam, really good.

That's right Robert, your thread is currently HIJACKED!!

The valvetrain should be good 977 comp springs with 10* super locks and retainers.
 :msorry:  Robert



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 23, 2011, 11:42:11 pm
he'll be happy as long as it feels like its fast    :whistling:




...Thats pretty much the long and short of it.......hes not going heads up racing.


Ha!!!

My butt-o-meter is a bit more experienced to know what is fast and what just feels fast than you guys are giving me credit.    ;)

It's not like I'm an eighteen year old just starting to be a decent driver.

I've been having "fun" on the streets for awhile now.    :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 23, 2011, 11:44:28 pm
The way you've described the converters characteristics behind your 363, it sounds like it might be "kinda loose" rather than "kinda tight".


Yes I agree it is kinda loose because this 10" T/C can stall so high against my old 363W.


And by the way you describe your build and where you want the power, it sounds like you are going to be dropping into the 408's peak torque area (or close to) at full noise shifts, which is fine


I agree.  It will be real good I'm sure.

If I'm shifting balls out at 7000rpm -- what is a very conservative T/C stall?

1500rpms under the shift point.  Not where the torque peak is.  But where am I shifting at?

That would be a 5500rpm stall T/C, right?

Mine should stall at around 5000rpm.  No problem.

I'm sure that the 408ci engine will be making very good power at 6000rpm and probably beyond.    ;)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 23, 2011, 11:45:14 pm
Or if I'm shifting at 6000rpm it's still 1000rpm below my shift point.  I don't think that it will be bad but I will have to see.

Any other thoughts?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on April 24, 2011, 08:22:28 am
you made some comments that suggest it was 5200. so it could be 5700 behind the new setup

if you blow the new setup up, can you afford to replace it? will you keep riding the bus? that being said you should probably keep your stock block 408 below 6500

honestly I think your combo should have 4.10 gear, 28" tire and maybe 4800stall. for what youre doing, I think the car would be better off in every aspect

I kind of fear for you that your converter is gonna be too loose behind the new mill and your gonna have a melt down. so you might need to be able to replace other driveline parts as well. this is an expensive hobby. just remember to tell your tranny guy- hey I asked about a restall and you said I was good to go!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Hayden123 on April 24, 2011, 09:18:02 am
Not much sense me commenting much cause you don't think like I do.... but I pretty much agree with the above post. 
Whats the sense of having it turning within an inch of its life?  As long as your making the same average hp within your working range is doesn't really matter if your limit is 6k or 7k.....and thats the advantage of having cubes. You realize that by just going from a 6k to a 7k limit, you increase loadings by near 40%?   Your rear gear won't be as low... true, but I was reading a thread here recently of a number of guys pulling their real low gears out and putting in something more realistic.   Reality had sunken in.
Ats all fun for month or two.....


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Nitro on April 24, 2011, 10:58:29 am
Will Woody be tuning/dyno your new engine?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 24, 2011, 11:11:30 am
you made some comments that suggest it was 5200. so it could be 5700 behind the new setup


I woke up this morning thinking about that the same way in a different light.  I will have to see how much it drops when I shift when I get it all together.  If it is slipping too much then I will have to have it re-stalled.


if you blow the new setup up, can you afford to replace it? will you keep riding the bus? that being said you should probably keep your stock block 408 below 6500


That is sinking in as a good idea.  I am sick of the bus.  Since it's a stroker inside of a stock block I'm going to change my cam-sheet to have it red-line at 6500rpm.


honestly I think your combo should have 4.10 gear, 28" tire and maybe 4800stall. for what youre doing, I think the car would be better off in every aspect


Thanks for the advice.  I have it geared with the 4.56 rear to help it move because me and it are 4000#.  After these rear tires wear out "enough" I will be putting on some M/T ET-street 28" tires.



I kind of fear for you that your converter is gonna be too loose behind the new mill and your gonna have a melt down.


I have a temp gauge and other gauges, too -- I monitor them as I drive.  I know that it will get a bit hotter than before -- thanks for the advice.


just remember to tell your tranny guy- hey I asked about a restall and you said I was good to go!


He said that he "thinks that I will be good to go".  The way he works is the proper way.  Give a guess based on his experience -- then put it all together and drive it and go from there after the performance has been verified.  If it needs a re-stall then it will get done.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 24, 2011, 11:29:32 am
Not much sense me commenting much cause you don't think like I do.... but I pretty much agree with the above post. 
Whats the sense of having it turning within an inch of its life?  As long as your making the same average hp within your working range is doesn't really matter if your limit is 6k or 7k.....and thats the advantage of having cubes. You realize that by just going from a 6k to a 7k limit, you increase loadings by near 40%?   Your rear gear won't be as low... true, but I was reading a thread here recently of a number of guys pulling their real low gears out and putting in something more realistic.   Reality had sunken in.
Ats all fun for month or two.....


I appreciate the advice from members who have more experience than I do.  Believe me I do!    :thanx:

I am changing my cam-sheet to have a red-line of 6500rpm -- and that will match my digital rev-limiter setting.

I plan on regularly shifting it at 6000rpm traffic permitting and only on a rare occasion of shifting it at 6500rpm max.

I like to rev my engines while driving them on the street.  With a stroker inside of a stock block and I am sick of the city bus I think that 6000rpm shifts with a 6500rpm red-line is a dependable compromise.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 24, 2011, 11:34:15 am
Will Woody be tuning/dyno your new engine?


No.

He will send it to me and I will have to add the plugs, wires, distributor, fuel pump, water pump and carb.

I will be using my old 363W's Holley HP annular 750cfm carb until I have saved up the money for a custom carb from Patrick at ProSystem Carbs.

I will be doing the carb tuning.
 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on April 24, 2011, 12:19:33 pm
Robert you frighten me.

Your new bullet is roughly going to make twice the power of your old mill.

On my set-ups just from the weather change from  "bad air" to "good air" will produce a 500 rpm swing in converter flash.....and thats only a differance of 25-30 horsepower.

Im confident your gonna need a re-stall.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: woody on April 24, 2011, 12:23:18 pm
Im confident robert does have any idea what he has coming, regardless of converter


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on April 24, 2011, 12:26:34 pm
Im confident robert does have any idea what he has coming, regardless of converter

Pretty much my thoughts as well....lol

He has no "point of referance" as in relation to his "butt-o-meter"......hes gonna be in for a shock at this first tast of real horsepower.....his days of shifting at full steam in traffic are very shortlived.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 24, 2011, 12:41:37 pm
Robert you frighten me.

Your new bullet is roughly going to make twice the power of your old mill.

On my set-ups just from the weather change from  "bad air" to "good air" will produce a 500 rpm swing in converter flash.....and thats only a differance of 25-30 horsepower.

Im confident your gonna need a re-stall.
Im confident robert does have any idea what he has coming, regardless of converter

Pretty much my thoughts as well....lol

He has no "point of referance" as in relation to his "butt-o-meter"......hes gonna be in for a shock at this first tast of real horsepower.....his days of shifting at full steam in traffic are very shortlived.


My in-experience to some real power frightens you?

Don't worry.  I won't wrap it around a telephone pole.  The owner of where I work jokingly said that to me, too.

I will practice in some areas of Anaheim that I know of that are very low traffic-wise in the mornings and not too much in the afternoon, too.

I won't just go balls-out at first.  I will ease into the gas and do granny shifts (to seat the rings and also for safety) and then give it a little more each time after that to get a responsible feel of how the car will react.

If I was back in the day eighteen again with this power and drinking it would be too dangerous for me because I remember how I used to be.  I'd be dead . . .    :bang

I've grown up and became wiser thank God.    :idea


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 24, 2011, 01:14:47 pm
Robert you frighten me.

Your new bullet is roughly going to make twice the power of your old mill.

On my set-ups just from the weather change from  "bad air" to "good air" will produce a 500 rpm swing in converter flash.....and thats only a differance of 25-30 horsepower.

Im confident your gonna need a re-stall.


Would you explain it to me the "noob" compared to you Rich (I'm not being a smart-ass!) about your confidence in my needing a tighter T/C in a way that I will understand?

How will I know this while I am driving it -- in your words?    :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Blue Oval on April 24, 2011, 01:19:16 pm
 Robert.... "Wiser" would mean you would take your car to the strip and test that engine/converter  out. Not on an Anaheim street.
 You will never learn the full potential of your car on the street and it is just plain dangerous.
 
 


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Goody_Seven on April 24, 2011, 01:19:33 pm
A good friend of mine had a stock 5.0L Mustang for about a year.  Decided to pick up a 1996 Cobra that had a Vortech.  Thought he could handle a Mustang so no fear of the extra power.  Needless to say, after 3 weeks I got the brakes off the car, another friend got the supercharger, craigslisted the motor, and broke his girlfriends nose, and has had back problems since.  Moral of the story, while 1st gear tire spins seem easy to control, when it happens at 65-75mph, the difficulty is quite different.  Good news though, the tree is doing fine.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 24, 2011, 01:25:32 pm
Robert.... "Wiser" would mean you would take your car to the strip and test that engine/converter  out. Not on an Anaheim street.
 You will never learn the full potential of your car on the street and it is just plain dangerous.
 
 


True.

It will be making trips to Irwindale the 1/8mi track on street tires.  Since it's my DD it won't be seeing slicks until my financial situation changes.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 24, 2011, 01:30:45 pm
A good friend of mine had a stock 5.0L Mustang for about a year.  Decided to pick up a 1996 Cobra that had a Vortech.  Thought he could handle a Mustang so no fear of the extra power.  Needless to say, after 3 weeks I got the brakes off the car, another friend got the supercharger, craigslisted the motor, and broke his girlfriends nose, and has had back problems since.  Moral of the story, while 1st gear tire spins seem easy to control, when it happens at 65-75mph, the difficulty is quite different.  Good news though, the tree is doing fine.


Thanks for the reminder.

I've had to lift with no traffic on a rainy day because of my small 26" tires, 4.56 rear and the loose T/C before.

On empty roads I've learned with my under-powered 363W what it's like losing traction in first, second and third gears of my C4.  Not just with burn-outs but rolling along.  The rain I've learned does things to traction at all speeds.    :whistling:

I'm not saying that I don't have a respectful fear of the power.  I do.  I also realize that I've never driven with that much power ever.  It does help that my ride is heavy, long and wide.  I'm just saying that I will progress slowly enough to understand it's capabilities to the best of my ability.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: grslms51 on April 24, 2011, 03:59:37 pm
Merc..i think you know your car and are old enough to have a respect for safety..so i think you will be fine learning your new power level...maybe don't put the go pedal on the wood at first.LOL...this is JMO...but,i think this new engine is going to hit your converter like a ton of bricks..so why not try what you have?..it may be more than enough...with Woody building it,i think your going to see a shit storm of torque.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 24, 2011, 04:38:34 pm
Merc..i think you know your car and are old enough to have a respect for safety..so i think you will be fine learning your new power level...maybe don't put the go pedal on the wood at first.LOL...this is JMO...but,i think this new engine is going to hit your converter like a ton of bricks..so why not try what you have?..it may be more than enough...with Woody building it,i think your going to see a shit storm of torque.


I agree with you and I think that is what Rich was saying.

All of that talk about a "new bullet with almost double the power" had my pulse racing that is for sure.    ;)

That is what I'm looking forward to is why I'm investing my hard earned cash into a 408ci SBF being built by Woody.   


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on April 24, 2011, 04:55:52 pm
Your certainly gonna have to try the converter you have at first.......that will give you a baseline to get good info for your converter guy to work off of.

Robert you have to clearly understand that your going from a pretty tired high milage heavy (stock) rotator smallblock, to a state of the art balanced, lightwieght and efficient brand new stoker smallblock with 45 more cubes.......its a pretty sizable differance. Your taking a major step up in power and the speed of when that power comes in.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 24, 2011, 06:12:15 pm
 ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on April 24, 2011, 06:54:41 pm
do you have caltracs? or subframe connectors or anything?

4000lbs scares me~ all that load, add more power, break more stuff. time to get the lead out

I think you will just cook tires and trannys, might really be slower than before in spite of an additional 175hp :spit:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Joel5.0 on April 24, 2011, 07:24:00 pm
do you have caltracs? or subframe connectors or anything?

4000lbs scares me~ all that load, add more power, break more stuff. time to get the lead out

I think you will just cook tires and trannys, might really be slower than before in spite of an additional 175hp :spit:

I would rather have that "compromise" to worry about.... wouldn't you? Or is it OK to under-build an engine setup due to suspension/frame limitations for the same $$? Besides.... he can always leave a spark plug disconnected and have his current setup handle it.

Guys ... does Robert need to go to the track?.... :wonder:.... absolutely! A new :qunq: "world" he will find for sure. But that is no excuse for him not to tinker on his own or limit his build.

There WILL always be things you will never learn unless you experience them.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Hayden123 on April 24, 2011, 07:55:01 pm
Lots of good advice and comments there 69 Merc ....  I am really pleased you have taken at least some of it on-board and using your head instead of your heart.
Like Fast88 mentions, run your converter first to see how it reacts and if any changes are needed, they should be able to get it real close to "ideal" off that info. It does mean a little messing around but its better than guessing, paying.... and then doing it all again as its not quite right.  IMO, aim for "tight" side.... you should have plenty of tq and a good spread of power, so you won't need to crutch it with a loose converter.  Too loose on the street can create issues with "manners" and heat.
 :thumb:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Captbb56 on April 24, 2011, 08:15:39 pm
I can't wait til Robert gets his new motor. I envy the passion he has for his ride :Gluck:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on April 24, 2011, 08:27:24 pm
dont take my post the wrong way, Im just saying look at the big picture and the whole package. the fact I found humor in a traction problem was good spirited. dont take that the wrong way.  :nono2: he is on the right track, just random thoughts...

 :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 24, 2011, 08:31:07 pm
do you have caltracs? or subframe connectors or anything?

4000lbs scares me~ all that load, add more power, break more stuff. time to get the lead out

I think you will just cook tires and trannys, might really be slower than before in spite of an additional 175hp :spit:


I bought two rectangular long steel "pieces" (I right now can't remember what the steel selling place calls them?) that I made into some DIY sub-frame connectors with my wire-feed flux-cored welder.

I have also already welded in steel support at the corners "boxing" my frame all the way around getting that from a tip from an ex-racer who helped me with my present custom radiator and fan system in Huntington Beach.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 24, 2011, 08:34:33 pm
Lots of good advice and comments there 69 Merc ....  I am really pleased you have taken at least some of it on-board and using your head instead of your heart.
Like Fast88 mentions, run your converter first to see how it reacts and if any changes are needed, they should be able to get it real close to "ideal" off that info. It does mean a little messing around but its better than guessing, paying.... and then doing it all again as its not quite right.  IMO, aim for "tight" side.... you should have plenty of tq and a good spread of power, so you won't need to crutch it with a loose converter.  Too loose on the street can create issues with "manners" and heat.
 :thumb:


I believe that this engine will make me immensely happy and thanks for the good advice.

I don't ever forget (I had better not!) that I do not know even 10% of there is no know, understand and experience in this excellent and adrenaline pumping hobby.

I will always try my best to listen to those who have been there before.    :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 24, 2011, 08:42:23 pm
I can't wait til Robert gets his new motor. I envy the passion he has for his ride :Gluck:


The thrill of it all almost takes my breath away with the adrenaline racing through my veins when I am starting the engine up and then pushing on the gas pedal -- feeling the acceleration and the roar of my dual 3" mufflers that don't even make it past the rear axle.    :whistling:

No one at my job nor my neighbors understand what makes me tick with me loving a fast car.  (And I realize that my old 363W with my Merc wasn't that fast -- but it was the fastest that I've ever owned).

For me it is strange that they don't enjoy them, too?    :dunno
 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 24, 2011, 08:42:55 pm
dont take my post the wrong way, Im just saying look at the big picture and the whole package. the fact I found humor in a traction problem was good spirited. dont take that the wrong way.  :nono2: he is on the right track, just random thoughts...

 :party


No problem, man.    :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: grslms51 on April 24, 2011, 09:27:08 pm
Merc..you are one of the best spirited guys on this site..keep it up.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 351 windsor snake on April 24, 2011, 10:10:23 pm
Merc..you are one of the best spirited guys on this site..keep it up.
And it is truely refreshing to see him take  in the advice and think about it,then form a plan to succeed.
There is a certain young fellow,with a mustang on here that could learn a thing or two from Robert....


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on April 24, 2011, 10:23:29 pm
Merc..you are one of the best spirited guys on this site..keep it up.

I agree...Robert is good people.  :clap


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on April 24, 2011, 11:15:12 pm
Merc..you are one of the best spirited guys on this site..keep it up.


And it is truely refreshing to see him take  in the advice and think about it,then form a plan to succeed.
There is a certain young fellow,with a mustang on here that could learn a thing or two from Robert....


I agree...Robert is good people.  :clap


Thank you guys!

I learn a lot from this site while being amongst a bunch of good people, too -- that is why I keep coming back!



And sometime after I get the engine in and tuned I will be taking it to the 1/8mi track at Irwindale Raceway.    :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Captbb56 on May 01, 2011, 07:29:17 am
Any idea's when the new bullet may arrive?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 01, 2011, 10:02:11 am
Any idea's when the new bullet may arrive?


I'm not sure.

I had PM'd Jim and he said that he leaves the scheduling of the machining of the block to his wife Nicole.  He said that scheduling appointments can change on a daily basis because of part availability.

I had then emailed Nicole asking if she had an idea how I was doing and she hasn't replied back to my email yet.  I'm sure that they are very busy.

Believe you me I am as excited as a youngster Christmas morning awaiting the new bullet with anticipation!!!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: BirdMan on May 01, 2011, 11:08:50 am
Hot Damn  :ban, you mean things are finally getting going?  Great news!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 01, 2011, 12:33:45 pm
Hot Damn  :ban, you mean things are finally getting going?  Great news!


I got in line at FordStrokers March 2, 2011!  I'm sure that it's a comin' soon!    :burnout



(I didn't want to bother Nicole too much because she is very busy yet always very nice on the telephone and with emails.  I had to add and change a few things along the way on my build but she has remained totally friendly the entire time.)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on May 01, 2011, 01:40:20 pm
Is your Montego not a full frame car? I thought all the full size cars were. I learned something new today. My Torino is a full frame car and it could still benefit from some fish plates or braces. Old frames are pretty weak.

Good Luck with the build.

I'll be watching



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 01, 2011, 02:45:14 pm
Is your Montego not a full frame car? I thought all the full size cars were. I learned something new today. My Torino is a full frame car and it could still benefit from some fish plates or braces. Old frames are pretty weak.

Good Luck with the build.

I'll be watching




The frames stop at where the front and rear seats are and then continue behind them -- so they are really two separate pieces.  That was until I visited a metal selling shop and pulled out my cutting saw and my flux-cored welder.

If the frames or suspension are weak then at best I will be losing power into the frame instead of putting it to the pavement OR at worst it could cost me an accident and/or my life.    :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: aussiewinza on May 06, 2011, 07:25:36 am
hey robert any updates? got a real soft spot for the bigger cars, hows yours coming along?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 06, 2011, 09:37:44 am
hey robert any updates? got a real soft spot for the bigger cars, hows yours coming along?


I know.  The waiting is a killer!  I've heard from a few of Jim's other customers that the wait was well worth it for them after they fired up his engine.

Hopefully when it gets close Jim will post up a "Robert your stuff is almost ready" with good pics of the engine at his shop.  (He could do it right here adding to this "construction" thread.)

Earlier Jim and Rich (Fast88) said that my days of WOT shifting on city streets is over.  I will see about that.  Either I'm a better drive than they think (or crazier?) considering our race weight is 4000# OR I truly have no idea how much faster it will be compared to my old 363W engine.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on May 06, 2011, 09:47:05 am
Damn Robert 4000 pounds!  Sounds like some fiberglass body parts should be on the shopping list after the 408.  What kind of HP are you hoping for from the 408?  At some point you need to start a "Guess my Merc's 1/8 mile ET" thread.  I'm thinking if you can hook it'll be in the low 7s.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 06, 2011, 09:53:58 am
Damn Robert 4000 pounds!  Sounds like some fiberglass body parts should be on the shopping list after the 408.  What kind of HP are you hoping for from the 408?


Yeah.  I'm 220# right now and the Merc is a hair under 3800#.

I would love a fiberglass hood with a tall scoop.

I would be very pleased with 550hp out of my 408ci on pump gas.
 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 06, 2011, 09:55:55 am
 
At some point you need to start a "Guess my Merc's 1/8 mile ET" thread.  I'm thinking if you can hook it'll be in the low 7s.


Since my Merc is my DD and I'm not wealthy it won't be seeing slicks.

I doubt it will hook very well to achieve a good 7 second ET on street tires?  Who knows?

I will do my best when I go but I'm more interested in what sort of mph it can run.

I wonder how close to 100mph it will do?    :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Blue Oval on May 06, 2011, 03:15:30 pm

 Robert, if you do 100 mph in the 1/8th you will be a VERY happy man. I dare say Woody would be pleased too !
 7's in the 1/8th on street tyres is a stretch too I reckon. Unless they are MT ET Streets or such.
 Don't aim too high. There's only one way from there !
 Best of luck with it. Won't be long now  :P


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 06, 2011, 03:25:50 pm
Thanks!!

Speaking of M/T -- these will be my next DD tires --

(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/MT325-50R15.jpg)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on May 06, 2011, 05:22:34 pm
That tire is as good as a slick when your suspension is right and tire pressure.  I hope your 28 spline axles are in good shape.

Bam


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on May 06, 2011, 05:27:25 pm
Speaking of M/T -- these will be my next DD tires --

You might want to reconsider that. While they are street radials, they don't last long when using them on a daily basis. I mean, unless you want to spend $500 on tires every couple months.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on May 06, 2011, 05:35:23 pm
and wet traction is similar to running slicks.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 06, 2011, 05:43:19 pm
That tire is as good as a slick when your suspension is right and tire pressure.  I hope your 28 spline axles are in good shape.

Bam



You missed my axle size in my sig.  I have upgraded most of my ride.

It has 31-spline axles.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 06, 2011, 05:44:19 pm
Speaking of M/T -- these will be my next DD tires --

You might want to reconsider that. While they are street radials, they don't last long when using them on a daily basis. I mean, unless you want to spend $500 on tires every couple months.


I drive 4500 miles per year in my Merc.

How long do you think those M/T would last me taking into account my yearly mileage?  IDK because I've never ran anything besides a real street tire.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 06, 2011, 05:45:01 pm
and wet traction is similar to running slicks.


In rain I will pussyfoot that Merc I can assure you!    ;)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on May 06, 2011, 05:47:03 pm
If you are going to actually drive this car (and you will) I recommend the Nitto drag radials.  I have almost 10,000 miles on my current set and they are about half gone.  They really tamed the car down on the street - made it much more drivable.  And they were good for 1.6 60 foot times...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 06, 2011, 05:48:13 pm
If you are going to actually drive this car (and you will) I recommend the Nitto drag radials.  I have almost 10,000 miles on my current set and they are about half gone.  They really tamed the car down on the street - made it much more drivable.  And they were good for 1.6 60 foot times...


What size do you have that made 1.6 sec 60' times?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on May 06, 2011, 05:49:23 pm
If you are going to actually drive this car (and you will) I recommend the Nitto drag radials.  I have almost 10,000 miles on my current set and they are about half gone.  They really tamed the car down on the street - made it much more drivable.  And they were good for 1.6 60 foot times...


What size do you have that made 1.6 sec 60' times?

275/40/17

This was in a legit 800hp car...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 06, 2011, 05:57:00 pm
If you are going to actually drive this car (and you will) I recommend the Nitto drag radials.  I have almost 10,000 miles on my current set and they are about half gone.  They really tamed the car down on the street - made it much more drivable.  And they were good for 1.6 60 foot times...


What size do you have that made 1.6 sec 60' times?

275/40/17

This was in a legit 800hp car...


Nathan -- Is this the type of tire (I know the size is bigger but it will fit on my Merc and I need everything that I can get!)?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NIT-180810/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NIT-180810/)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on May 06, 2011, 06:03:34 pm
If you are going to actually drive this car (and you will) I recommend the Nitto drag radials.  I have almost 10,000 miles on my current set and they are about half gone.  They really tamed the car down on the street - made it much more drivable.  And they were good for 1.6 60 foot times...


What size do you have that made 1.6 sec 60' times?

275/40/17

This was in a legit 800hp car...


Nathan -- Is this the type of tire (I know the size is bigger but it will fit on my Merc and I need everything that I can get!)?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NIT-180810/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NIT-180810/)

yep... but if memory serves, scummits price on them sucks.  I saved $$ by going local.  Just took some yellowebook time...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 06, 2011, 06:22:17 pm
OK.  Thanks for the heads-up!

Here will be my next tires when my current ones wear out enough -- which my new engine should eat them up quick (the old ones that is)!    :whistling:


(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/NittoNT555Rdragradials325-50R15.jpg)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on May 06, 2011, 06:28:51 pm
That's a lot of rubber!  I've driven with Nittos before on a buddy's car and you can definitely see a major improvement in traction.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Blue Oval on May 06, 2011, 06:36:00 pm
Speaking of M/T -- these will be my next DD tires --

You might want to reconsider that. While they are street radials, they don't last long when using them on a daily basis. I mean, unless you want to spend $500 on tires every couple months.


I drive 4500 miles per year in my Merc.

How long do you think those M/T would last me taking into account my yearly mileage?  IDK because I've never ran anything besides a real street tire.

My MT ET Streets are gone now. They spin worse that normal street radials. They have done 1200 miles or 2000 klms and are 9 months old.

 You better put a few pennies away if you're doing 4500 miles a year.

 Also your Tru trac centre might be near it's limits with large sticky rubber and  a 408 stroker.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: aussiewinza on May 06, 2011, 08:50:07 pm
i ran a best of 8.17 at 81 mph (1/8th)in a 3750lb?? aussie xc  (my d/d at the time) on 275/60/15 bf goodrocks! slow i know but had a ball and was a joke off the line with street tyres
with a 302 clevo, i think after you sort your traction issues you will sure have a fun car mate

 :burnout
 
either way im hangin to see some pics of how it all progresses, i think you may need to keep a pack of spare underpants in glovebox................


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 06, 2011, 09:05:46 pm
Speaking of M/T -- these will be my next DD tires --

You might want to reconsider that. While they are street radials, they don't last long when using them on a daily basis. I mean, unless you want to spend $500 on tires every couple months.


I drive 4500 miles per year in my Merc.

How long do you think those M/T would last me taking into account my yearly mileage?  IDK because I've never ran anything besides a real street tire.

My MT ET Streets are gone now. They spin worse that normal street radials. They have done 1200 miles or 2000 klms and are 9 months old.

 You better put a few pennies away if you're doing 4500 miles a year.

 Also your Tru trac centre might be near it's limits with large sticky rubber and  a 408 stroker.


I'm going with the Nitto's, instead.  The ones that I posted a bit above of this post.

Nathan (Mighty Mouse) said that they will last longer as a DD.

I hope that my Detroit TruTrac can handle it.  It was not cheap, either.  I was told that it can handle it at the power level the 408ci will put out.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on May 07, 2011, 12:55:20 am
You have a trans brake Robert?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 07, 2011, 09:11:55 am
You have a trans brake Robert?


No.

My trans guy advised against one keeping in mind my Merc is my DD and my financial situation at this time.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on May 07, 2011, 09:20:26 am
I agree the nittos are the tire for you. awesome DD tire


when wet traction is talked about with slicks etc., you dont understand its not that you'd be ok pussyfooting, its not safe to drive, the back end can come around anytime without warning and you have no control over the car with the brakes because you have a slick thats hydroplaning


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 07, 2011, 09:58:33 am
I agree the nittos are the tire for you. awesome DD tire


when wet traction is talked about with slicks etc., you dont understand its not that you'd be ok pussyfooting, its not safe to drive, the back end can come around anytime without warning and you have no control over the car with the brakes because you have a slick thats hydroplaning


What will those Nitto's act like in rain?

If the rear end is coming around does lifting cure that?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on May 07, 2011, 01:31:10 pm
I agree the nittos are the tire for you. awesome DD tire


when wet traction is talked about with slicks etc., you dont understand its not that you'd be ok pussyfooting, its not safe to drive, the back end can come around anytime without warning and you have no control over the car with the brakes because you have a slick thats hydroplaning


What will those Nitto's act like in rain?

If the rear end is coming around does lifting cure that?

I can't speak for the Nitto DRs, but the BFG DRs are just marginal in the wet stuff. 

I have a 2nd set of wheels with the DRs mounted on.  Throw 'em in the trunk on track day along with a tire iron and a jack, then swap on/off as needed.  Just buddy up with someone that has a trailer so you can stash the streets while in the lanes.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 07, 2011, 04:24:19 pm
I agree the nittos are the tire for you. awesome DD tire


when wet traction is talked about with slicks etc., you dont understand its not that you'd be ok pussyfooting, its not safe to drive, the back end can come around anytime without warning and you have no control over the car with the brakes because you have a slick thats hydroplaning


What will those Nitto's act like in rain?

If the rear end is coming around does lifting cure that?

I can't speak for the Nitto DRs, but the BFG DRs are just marginal in the wet stuff. 

I have a 2nd set of wheels with the DRs mounted on.  Throw 'em in the trunk on track day along with a tire iron and a jack, then swap on/off as needed.  Just buddy up with someone that has a trailer so you can stash the streets while in the lanes.


What exactly do you mean performance-wise "marginal in the wet stuff"?

If your ride's rear end is a movin' can you lift to correct that action?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on May 07, 2011, 04:29:09 pm
"marginal" as in it don't take much to get them spinning.  Yes you can back off...but who likes to lift??? 
 ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on May 07, 2011, 07:38:34 pm
The Nitto's were far better on wet pavement than the gatorbacks they replaced - at least on my ride they were.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 07, 2011, 08:21:57 pm
Thanks a lot, guys.

The Nitto's it will be.

Right now my present rear tires still have some tread on them.  They aren't very old.

Plus right now I think that I need to save up for a larger carb from ProSystems than the 750cfm that I have right now before I shop for some tires.

I wonder how my 750cfm DP will fare trying to feed my 408ci?  With my in-car vacuum gauge I can see what is happening under the carb's throttle plates.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on May 08, 2011, 09:25:30 am
my personal experience is the nitto is very good in the rain, like Nathan they were much better than the goodyears I previously had

as far as the slicks and lifting, you dont understand, the tire is hydroplaning, momentum is taking you where ever it feels like. Ive driven stick shift v8 mustangs in buffalo winters, this is different. you are near helpless

you are gonna need at least some type of tire, be realistic, sell your old tires on CL and buy the nittos. run the 750 for now. you might be leaving 10hp on the table but you have to look at the big picture right now.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 08, 2011, 10:02:31 am
my personal experience is the nitto is very good in the rain, like Nathan they were much better than the goodyears I previously had

as far as the slicks and lifting, you dont understand, the tire is hydroplaning, momentum is taking you where ever it feels like. Ive driven stick shift v8 mustangs in buffalo winters, this is different. you are near helpless


I do run with a manual VB.  I hear what you are saying -- I do not want to hydroplane.

I've never driven in snow but it looks like it would act the same as rain water would?  The snow packs down like ice, right?  I would think that you would lose traction and your ride would perform like it was hydroplaning, too?


you are gonna need at least some type of tire, be realistic, sell your old tires on CL and buy the nittos. run the 750 for now. you might be leaving 10hp on the table but you have to look at the big picture right now.



You think that the 750cfm carb wouldn't hold back my acceleration and top-end performance too much, huh?  Compared to needing better tires?

That would be nice because I'm thinking that my puny 26" P295/50-15 tires are not going to give me hardly any traction even on dry pavement with a 408ci because they sucked with my old 363W.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 08, 2011, 10:39:51 am
Of course -- on the other hand -- I just saw a commercial for a new Cadillac CTSV coupe with a 556hp supercharged engine.

I wonder what size and type of street tires they come with?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on May 09, 2011, 10:33:46 am
Of course -- on the other hand -- I just saw a commercial for a new Cadillac CTSV coupe with a 556hp supercharged engine.

I wonder what size and type of street tires they come with?

For the 2011 model year CTS-V

Michelin Pilot Sport PS2
Front: 255/40-19
Rear: 285/35-19


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on May 09, 2011, 06:45:12 pm
yeah nice try but that aint gonna work  :orglaugh

get slicks for the track! the nittos are for driving to work


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 09, 2011, 08:23:18 pm
yeah nice try but that aint gonna work  :orglaugh

get slicks for the track! the nittos are for driving to work


Sorry but my Merc is my DD.  I don't have another car.  I pour what I have into my Merc.

I think that the Nitto's would be safe for all year long street driving and also not rip up my Merc too much compared to how real slicks would at the track.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on May 10, 2011, 07:29:06 am
if you are that worried about its gonna break, dont floor it, ever! might as well put a stock 302 in there  :whistling:

seriously, it can break on the street all the same. the fun factor will outweigh the expense. besides an auto leaving with no trans break, chances are you will go many passes without breaking. if anything itd probably be the engine or trans and that would happen all the same on the street. but a spare pair of axles ahead of time if you are that worried about it, but you are not gonna spray the car off a trans brake, so it wont be that hard on it.

the street is not the answer


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 10, 2011, 10:02:00 am
if you are that worried about its gonna break, dont floor it, ever! might as well put a stock 302 in there  :whistling:

seriously, it can break on the street all the same. the fun factor will outweigh the expense. besides an auto leaving with no trans break, chances are you will go many passes without breaking. if anything itd probably be the engine or trans and that would happen all the same on the street. but a spare pair of axles ahead of time if you are that worried about it, but you are not gonna spray the car off a trans brake, so it wont be that hard on it.

the street is not the answer


I'm not worried about the engine breaking.  I always use a rev-limiter.  My old 363W I occasionally used to drive it as hard as I could have driven it at the track.  (Except for top speed of course.)

It's the trans, drive-line, Truetrac and axles that I would be worried about breaking with racing slicks.  The shock on those parts is increased using racing slicks compared to some Nitto's.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: garsten on May 21, 2011, 01:15:14 pm
Of course -- on the other hand -- I just saw a commercial for a new Cadillac CTSV coupe with a 556hp supercharged engine.

I wonder what size and type of street tires they come with?

saw one of these make a quarter mile pass at the drag strip last night.

12.5x @ 121.x mph.  i was impressed.  i was at the big end of the track and did not see the launch, but the supercharger was screamin as he was coming down the track.

cheers, claude


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 21, 2011, 02:04:14 pm
Of course -- on the other hand -- I just saw a commercial for a new Cadillac CTSV coupe with a 556hp supercharged engine.

I wonder what size and type of street tires they come with?

saw one of these make a quarter mile pass at the drag strip last night.

12.5x @ 121.x mph.  i was impressed.  i was at the big end of the track and did not see the launch, but the supercharger was screamin as he was coming down the track.

cheers, claude


Isn't 121mph making the power for 11's in the quarter if the right traction is available?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: garsten on May 21, 2011, 02:16:26 pm
Of course -- on the other hand -- I just saw a commercial for a new Cadillac CTSV coupe with a 556hp supercharged engine.

I wonder what size and type of street tires they come with?

saw one of these make a quarter mile pass at the drag strip last night.

12.5x @ 121.x mph.  i was impressed.  i was at the big end of the track and did not see the launch, but the supercharger was screamin as he was coming down the track.

cheers, claude


Isn't 121mph making the power for 11's in the quarter if the right traction is available?

here in tucson, race cars that mph @ 122, et around 11.0.

traction is a big deal, but so is gearing and all the other things that may not be set up properly.

cheers, claude


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jemp70 on May 21, 2011, 10:49:38 pm
Merc I have been running Dot 27x11.5x15 hossier quick time pros on my car for the last 14 years on the street. I have a detriot locker with the stock ford 40 plus year old 28 spline axles. I have 4.11 richmond gears. I drive it every day and never have had a problem.

I tried running some big ass radial tires on it on the streed before and it plane sucked ass. Lots of gear,stall and m/v with a 400+ hp motor with street tires blows......... You need somting sticky.

Cali sucks when it rains cuz all the oil on the roads make them slick as hell.




Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on May 21, 2011, 11:37:33 pm
Merc I have been running Dot 27x11.5x15 hossier quick time pros on my car for the last 14 years on the street. I have a detriot locker with the stock ford 40 plus year old 28 spline axles. I have 4.11 richmond gears. I drive it every day and never have had a problem.


I drive mine daily in the winter, too.  I don't think that you do in Michigan especially with those tires in your winter.

Are those Hoosier's bias-ply?  I won't drive anything but radials on the street for safety reasons.


I tried running some big ass radial tires on it on the streed before and it plane sucked ass. Lots of gear,stall and m/v with a 400+ hp motor with street tires blows......... You need somting sticky.


The Nitto's that I'm going to buy soon I've heard are sticky enough for the street, are safe and last decently.


Cali sucks when it rains cuz all the oil on the roads make them slick as hell.


I have to be extra careful that is true.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on May 21, 2011, 11:40:16 pm
Of course -- on the other hand -- I just saw a commercial for a new Cadillac CTSV coupe with a 556hp supercharged engine.

I wonder what size and type of street tires they come with?

saw one of these make a quarter mile pass at the drag strip last night.

12.5x @ 121.x mph.  i was impressed.  i was at the big end of the track and did not see the launch, but the supercharger was screamin as he was coming down the track.

cheers, claude


Isn't 121mph making the power for 11's in the quarter if the right traction is available?

11.38 at 120.3x third full pass in the 1/4 mile.  Lift off the throttle on the shift and a horrible (for slicks) 1.63 60 ft.  120 could be higher tens in a very well set up drag car.

I have seen one of these supercharged little four door Cadillacs that my good friend was detailing.  One heck of a sweet machine.  The guy who owned it drag raced Harleys.  Apparently he really loved that Cadillac.  For good reason IMHO.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 28, 2011, 03:38:15 pm
When I tore apart my old 363W the header gaskets were wasted.

I wonder what would be some good header gaskets for my TW 205cc heads?  I looked at Summit Racing but they have so many different type it made my head spin.  Anyone have a good idea?

What about a water pump bolt set?      :thanx:



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on July 28, 2011, 03:43:11 pm
I have these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BIG-99253FLT/

No complaints, other than the price. When I bought mine, they were $30 a set. Damn aluminum prices.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on July 28, 2011, 04:07:21 pm
Back when I used header gaskets I used the off the shelf Mr. Gasket ones with great success.  As I got into bigger heads I found they needed to be trimmed, but otherwise I have never had one failure with them.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on July 28, 2011, 04:23:35 pm
Hey Robert,  saw you post somewhere your new cam specs.  Looks like a pretty big jump from what you had.  I'm thinking you TC might be more of a 4000 with that rather then 5000.  What do you think?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 28, 2011, 04:48:58 pm
Hey Robert,  saw you post somewhere your new cam specs.  Looks like a pretty big jump from what you had.  I'm thinking you TC might be more of a 4000 with that rather then 5000.  What do you think?


Why do you think that?

True this cam will be a lot "looser" down low than my old 363W XE-274HFT camshaft but with 50 more cubes, 1/2" more stroke and almost 1 point higher CR this engine should hit my T/C (which used to rolling stall at 4500rpm) like a ton of bricks.

That is what I am thinking.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 28, 2011, 05:00:53 pm
I just got off of the phone with my trans guy.  He agreed with me.  On his spare time he helps his son race a dual turbo ride that runs high 7's.  He is familiar with the specs of my new 408ci.

He said that this 408ci engine will definitely make more torque which will make the T/C slip even higher than before.  He is guessing that it will stall around 5000rpm.

 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 28, 2011, 05:11:18 pm
IOW even though my new camshaft will be giving up a good amount of low end torque my 10" T/C is not only high stalling but rather loose if you know what I mean?

The new engine should have no problem spinning it higher than before because my custom cam that Cam Motion has built me is made for mid to top-end power.  (And lots of it I'm guessing!)      :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 28, 2011, 05:46:38 pm
My new cam is listed in my sig.      :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on July 28, 2011, 07:00:22 pm
merc i thought having a pretty big cam would kill mine a bit down low but holey shit
was i wrong.i can not believe how responsive mine is.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on July 28, 2011, 07:57:06 pm
red rtv. no gasket


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on July 28, 2011, 08:18:18 pm
You have the plug wires in the wrong order if you don't have more low end power than your previous engine. 


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 28, 2011, 08:41:30 pm
merc i thought having a pretty big cam would kill mine a bit down low but holey shit
was i wrong.i can not believe how responsive mine is.


You have the plug wires in the wrong order if you don't have more low end power than your previous engine. 


Thanks, guys.  Words can NOT describe how excited I am waiting for my engine!

This 42 year old man is like a teenager all over again yet hopefully a bit wiser now.      :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jtmustang on July 28, 2011, 08:42:09 pm
red rtv. no gasket

x2


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 28, 2011, 08:43:00 pm
red rtv. no gasket


Because of the tightness between the head and my shock towers I can't use the RTV or I will have a huge mess with that stuff getting all over everything but where it should be.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 28, 2011, 08:46:50 pm
I have these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BIG-99253FLT/

No complaints, other than the price. When I bought mine, they were $30 a set. Damn aluminum prices.


Very nice but expensive.  Is there anything that you know of that is not so much?

I'm ordering the odds and ends that I'll need to have the Merc running again and it sure is adding up quickly!      :bang


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 28, 2011, 08:54:53 pm
Does anyone know if these would work good?     http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-154-1504/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-154-1504/)

I like the price because like I said earlier this nickel and dime stuff to get all of the parts to make it run is kicking my bank account's butt royally!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 28, 2011, 09:04:39 pm
How about these header gaskets for TW 205cc heads?     http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-66014/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-66014/)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on July 28, 2011, 09:24:42 pm
I have these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BIG-99253FLT/

No complaints, other than the price. When I bought mine, they were $30 a set. Damn aluminum prices.
Very nice but expensive.  Is there anything that you know of that is not so much?

Similar gasket from Percy's: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-66014/

I haven't tried their header gaskets, but I have their XX Carbon collector gaskets. Haven't had one blow yet. Here is the header gasket: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-68014/

I'm ordering the odds and ends that I'll need to have the Merc running again and it sure is adding up quickly!      :bang

Its the little things that bite everyone in the ass. Damn cars will "$20" you to death.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on July 28, 2011, 09:29:13 pm
Does anyone know if these would work good?     http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-154-1504/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-154-1504/)

I don't know about that particular set, but most timing cover/water pump bolt sets tend to be wrong or incomplete. I bought a stainless kit for mine, but still had to buy several other bolts to make it work.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 28, 2011, 10:59:03 pm
I have these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BIG-99253FLT/

No complaints, other than the price. When I bought mine, they were $30 a set. Damn aluminum prices.
Very nice but expensive.  Is there anything that you know of that is not so much?

Similar gasket from Percy's: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-66014/

I haven't tried their header gaskets, but I have their XX Carbon collector gaskets. Haven't had one blow yet. Here is the header gasket: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-68014/

I'm ordering the odds and ends that I'll need to have the Merc running again and it sure is adding up quickly!      :bang

Its the little things that bite everyone in the ass. Damn cars will "$20" you to death.


On my Accufab 1-3/4" LT headers -- what is the difference between rectangle and square header gaskets?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on July 29, 2011, 12:46:28 am
red rtv. no gasket


Because of the tightness between the head and my shock towers I can't use the RTV or I will have a huge mess with that stuff getting all over everything but where it should be.

Same here.  I just used a Fel Pro steel core laminate set of gaskets.  They work OK.

Does anyone know if these would work good?     http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-154-1504/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-154-1504/)

I don't know about that particular set, but most timing cover/water pump bolt sets tend to be wrong or incomplete. I bought a stainless kit for mine, but still had to buy several other bolts to make it work.

No kidding.  I bought an ARP stainless set a while back and it came with extras I didn't need a didn't have a couple lengths I did need.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on July 29, 2011, 03:46:46 am
I have these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BIG-99253FLT/

No complaints, other than the price. When I bought mine, they were $30 a set. Damn aluminum prices.
Very nice but expensive.  Is there anything that you know of that is not so much?

Similar gasket from Percy's: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-66014/

I haven't tried their header gaskets, but I have their XX Carbon collector gaskets. Haven't had one blow yet. Here is the header gasket: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-68014/

I'm ordering the odds and ends that I'll need to have the Merc running again and it sure is adding up quickly!      :bang

Its the little things that bite everyone in the ass. Damn cars will "$20" you to death.
No kidding with the little shit nickle and diming you to death....


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: quick26 on July 29, 2011, 06:07:37 am
on the old f150 i had, i used the percys alumnium with great sucess.  on the 306 i had in the car i was using whatever summit sent me with their headers.  on the headers i have now, i am using a set of felt covered ss gaskets from kooks.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: cheese_05_70 on July 29, 2011, 08:01:42 am
I just put on a set of percys header gasket, seem to work good just have to tighten start engine heat them up shit off and retighten to get them fully compressed.

Got mine from autozone. they had them instock for 30$. that was the only thing i needed so didnt want to pay shipping.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on July 29, 2011, 09:38:21 am
if you "just have to have" a gasket. get the copper ones. you can reuse them over and over. I dont care for the alumunums or the felt ones either. if you dont want to swing that my last choice would be the laminated felpros with the steel core


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 29, 2011, 09:48:33 am
To show everyone why I am so excited -- the first pic is a mild SBF performance camshaft and the second pic is my cam.  Notice at and around the max lift point of those lobes -- the first pic seems to open the valves and shut them quickly -- while the second pic opens them up quickly and holds them open much longer.

TW 205cc heads aren't small but on a 408ci they aren't that big, either.  I call them medium sized heads.  So I'm figuring that a cam with decent lift and a good amount of duration (that my high stalling T/C makes driving on the street with traffic possible and fun!) to help fill the combustion chambers good to make some kick ass power mid to the top end.


Mild SBF performance cam -->

(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/Regularcamshaft.jpg)


My custom Cam Motion HR cam -->

(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/408cicamshaftpic2.jpg)


Thanks,  Woody!     :)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 29, 2011, 09:57:54 am
if you "just have to have" a gasket. get the copper ones. you can reuse them over and over.


Thanks.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on July 29, 2011, 02:29:46 pm
Cam looks good Merc.......sounds like your getting close!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 29, 2011, 05:03:01 pm
Thanks fast88 -- any day now I should be putting in the engine.

I have a question.

I am shopping for some new needle and seat assemblies for my carb.

The biggest that I could find on Summit are .150" -- they are either steel or titanium.

Which one would you advise?  The titanium are double the cost of the steel ones.  They are saying that they help seal better and can handle quick changes in fuel needs.  I don't really know?  The biggest Viton ones are only .130" -- they say steel is for alcohol or exotic race fuels.  Can you use steel with pump gasoline?

If the titanium ones will work the best I don't mind paying $42 something for a pair.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 29, 2011, 05:13:24 pm
I'm reading on the Net that they recommend Viton for the street and the other materials for racing only because they are saying that only Viton seals by conforming to the seat.  I wonder if this is true?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on July 29, 2011, 05:34:26 pm
Im my opinion, you dont need .150's the .130's should be plenty.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on July 29, 2011, 05:50:11 pm
Thanks fast88 -- any day now I should be putting in the engine.

I have a question.

I am shopping for some new needle and seat assemblies for my carb.

The biggest that I could find on Summit are .150" -- they are either steel or titanium.

Which one would you advise?  The titanium are double the cost of the steel ones.  They are saying that they help seal better and can handle quick changes in fuel needs.  I don't really know?  The biggest Viton ones are only .130" -- they say steel is for alcohol or exotic race fuels.  Can you use steel with pump gasoline?

If the titanium ones will work the best I don't mind paying $42 something for a pair.

For what you have I would just go with whatever the stock replacement is.

Keep it simple.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 29, 2011, 06:12:33 pm
Thanks guys for your help.      :)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on July 29, 2011, 06:14:31 pm
Youve got a nice little set-up going.......theres no need to re-invent the wheel on everything ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: NTV69 on July 29, 2011, 06:18:29 pm
When is your engine gonna be done?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: David Claflin on July 29, 2011, 06:24:21 pm
I hope you're going to wash that cam good before you put it in.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 29, 2011, 06:24:32 pm
When is your engine gonna be done?


I was told that all of the machining on the block is done.

They are waiting for the heads from T.E.A. and that next week they will start assembling the bottom-end getting it ready so when the heads do arrive they will be able to finish them up on the block.

As far as a day I don't know yet.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 29, 2011, 06:26:31 pm
Youve got a nice little set-up going.......theres no need to re-invent the wheel on everything ;D


So you think that I don't need some Viton .130" because for a while I will be having to use my 750cfm carb?  I won't have the money for a carb from Patrick at ProSystems for a bit -- putting this engine together is kicking my butt!

I am going to rev this baby to 6500rpm at times and I'm sure 6000rpm regularly.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 29, 2011, 06:30:09 pm
I hope you're going to wash that cam good before you put it in.


That pic was taken from Woody's shop.  I'm sure that it will get excellent treatment.      :naughty:

I researched him a lot over the Net and I have been a member here for a couple of years now.  If I didn't trust him and read good things about him he would have had a tough time pulling my hard earned moola out of my hands considering he is outside of Chicago and I'm a million miles away in California.      :347ho:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on July 29, 2011, 10:31:08 pm
Looks good Robert.  Just don't get caught up in comparing a flat tappet lobe to a roller one. ;) 


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 29, 2011, 10:48:02 pm
Looks good Robert.  Just don't get caught up in comparing a flat tappet lobe to a roller one. ;) 


Could a flat tappet lobe kinda look like my roller cam?  As far as that "dwell lobe" look?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: BuckeyeDemon on July 29, 2011, 11:15:02 pm
Looks good Robert.  Just don't get caught up in comparing a flat tappet lobe to a roller one. ;) 


Could a flat tappet lobe kinda look like my roller cam?  As far as that "dwell lobe" look?

you can't compare the look of a roller to a flat tappet.  the flat tappet lifter has a larger possible area where it can contact the lobe (as compared to a roller lifter)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 30, 2011, 11:41:24 am
Looks good Robert.  Just don't get caught up in comparing a flat tappet lobe to a roller one. ;) 


Could a flat tappet lobe kinda look like my roller cam?  As far as that "dwell lobe" look?

you can't compare the look of a roller to a flat tappet.  the flat tappet lifter has a larger possible area where it can contact the lobe (as compared to a roller lifter)


Even though the roller's wheel is constantly riding the lobe?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: grslms51 on July 30, 2011, 03:08:46 pm
that is a fat ass lobe,Merc...i have a 307 duration cam sitting here and it is not even close to that wide...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 30, 2011, 03:45:31 pm
that is a fat ass lobe,Merc...i have a 307 duration cam sitting here and it is not even close to that wide...


That's what I'm so happy about!  You know it, man!

I had talked with Woody a lot about I want everything that I can get out of a DD wild-ass ride running on pump gas, 4.56 rear gear and my high stalling T/C.  He is making sure that the springs and lifters will be up to par to handle me daily romping the streets of Anaheim, CA where I live and drive around.

The other thread where Hayden keeps up about TDL makes me laugh.  I will be having the time of my life daily.  The only downside of my high staller is where in the heck did my gas mileage go to?

This engine will make my dream a daily reality.       :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 30, 2011, 03:47:15 pm
Woody and I agreed after talking that I wanted a HR and not a TLSR or a SR cam.

Bob at Cam Motion made this cam pretty darn nasty even compared to a SR cam for me.  It should be all that I'll need in traffic!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: BuckeyeDemon on July 30, 2011, 05:04:23 pm
Looks good Robert.  Just don't get caught up in comparing a flat tappet lobe to a roller one. ;) 


Could a flat tappet lobe kinda look like my roller cam?  As far as that "dwell lobe" look?

you can't compare the look of a roller to a flat tappet.  the flat tappet lifter has a larger possible area where it can contact the lobe (as compared to a roller lifter)


Even though the roller's wheel is constantly riding the lobe?

draw the lobe (from the angle like you pictured) on a piece of paper.  then draw a line simulating that of a flat tappet contacting the lobe.  also draw a circle (of same diameter) representing the roller with the tip of the roller contacting the lobe.  then imagine rotating the lobe.  you will quickly see why the shapes of the lobes have to be different between a roller and flat tappet to attain the same characteristics after the tappet.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 30, 2011, 05:12:15 pm
Looks good Robert.  Just don't get caught up in comparing a flat tappet lobe to a roller one. ;)  


Could a flat tappet lobe kinda look like my roller cam?  As far as that "dwell lobe" look?

you can't compare the look of a roller to a flat tappet.  the flat tappet lifter has a larger possible area where it can contact the lobe (as compared to a roller lifter)


Even though the roller's wheel is constantly riding the lobe?

draw the lobe (from the angle like you pictured) on a piece of paper.  then draw a line simulating that of a flat tappet contacting the lobe.  also draw a circle (of same diameter) representing the roller with the tip of the roller contacting the lobe.  then imagine rotating the lobe.  you will quickly see why the shapes of the lobes have to be different between a roller and flat tappet to attain the same characteristics after the tappet.




OK, thanks.

Do you agree with me that camshaft is pretty bad-ass for a street HR cam?  

And compared to my old OTS Comp Cams XE-274HFT (.519"/.523", 230*/236*, 110* LSA) cam it is miles better?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: BuckeyeDemon on July 30, 2011, 05:21:12 pm
Looks good Robert.  Just don't get caught up in comparing a flat tappet lobe to a roller one. ;)  


Could a flat tappet lobe kinda look like my roller cam?  As far as that "dwell lobe" look?

you can't compare the look of a roller to a flat tappet.  the flat tappet lifter has a larger possible area where it can contact the lobe (as compared to a roller lifter)


Even though the roller's wheel is constantly riding the lobe?

draw the lobe (from the angle like you pictured) on a piece of paper.  then draw a line simulating that of a flat tappet contacting the lobe.  also draw a circle (of same diameter) representing the roller with the tip of the roller contacting the lobe.  then imagine rotating the lobe.  you will quickly see why the shapes of the lobes have to be different between a roller and flat tappet to attain the same characteristics after the tappet.




OK, thanks.

Do you agree with me that camshaft is pretty bad-ass for a street HR cam?  

And compared to my old OTS Comp Cams XE-274HFT (.519"/.523", 230*/236*, 110* LSA) cam it is miles better?

i can't define bad-ass given i really don't know what better means.  i.e. better idle quality, rpm range, efficiency.

plus i'm an electrical engineer, not an engine builder.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 31, 2011, 12:36:05 am
For a HR camshaft that will be dependable it is "on the edge" as far as being perky and making a boat load of power yet able to run good on pump gas.  I'm sure that my power brakes won't be working at idle.  I already have lined up an electric vacuum pump made for people driving street rides in my nice predicament.

Perky as in I'm guessing that it will really come alive from 4500 - 6500 rpm -- not a wide power band but my high stalling T/C will if needed to slip the engine up into it's higher power band rather quickly.

It will sound real nasty waiting at the stop light.  At low rpm it will probably not be very efficient letting lots of unburnt HC spew out of the exhaust pipes.  It will buck and snort like a young stallion at idle I'm sure.  That is how I like them.

If I decide to get wild with the gas pedal and get into it I'm sure that this cam will scream like a bat out of hell -- like I said probably around 4500rpm up to my 6500rpm shift point.

Any thoughts of any decent gas mileage probably went out the window weeks ago.  That my friends is the small price that I am willing to pay.  Any "tree huggers" here (I doubt it) please leave the room!      :spit:

The anticipation is killing me softly . . .      :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on July 31, 2011, 05:06:03 am
my cam is a fair bit bigger than yours and is a solid roller and to my surprise my power brakes work fine.
you have cubes on your side so you will have more power than you can use down low. ;)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on July 31, 2011, 05:18:55 am
Robert, I'm sure your cam will be everything you want it to be.  You've got a very good combo for what you want. :)

I'm simply saying that you can't compare the looks between lobes of a flat tappet cam to a roller and believe it translates directly into valve action which is what counts.  Not a knock on your combo.  Just a little lesson for you. :)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 31, 2011, 11:24:45 am
my cam is a fair bit bigger than yours and is a solid roller and to my surprise my power brakes work fine.
you have cubes on your side so you will have more power than you can use down low. ;)


Really?  I was thinking that I wouldn't have much manifold vacuum at idle.  If my vacuum runs under 10" my brakes don't work (power assisted that is).  How much vacuum do you get?

What are your cam's specs?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 31, 2011, 11:34:01 am
Robert, I'm sure your cam will be everything you want it to be.  You've got a very good combo for what you want. :)


I am happy for sure!


I'm simply saying that you can't compare the looks between lobes of a flat tappet cam to a roller and believe it translates directly into valve action which is what counts.  Not a knock on your combo.  Just a little lesson for you. :)


That was an embarrassing mistake on my part showing a FT cam comparing it to a HR camshaft.  I wish I had a pic of my 363W camshaft that was a XE-274HFT.  It was .519"/.523", 230*/236*, 110LSA.  (I knew it's duration and it had 13* of overlap at .050").  It was no where near the "fatness" of this HR camshaft.  This HR cam has 37* of overlap (at .050").    :naughty:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fidstang on July 31, 2011, 12:12:23 pm
my cam is a fair bit bigger than yours and is a solid roller and to my surprise my power brakes work fine.
you have cubes on your side so you will have more power than you can use down low. ;)


Really?  I was thinking that I wouldn't have much manifold vacuum at idle.  If my vacuum runs under 10" my brakes don't work (power assisted that is).  How much vacuum do you get?

What are your cam's specs?

idle vacuum is not the same as running vacuum.

What rpm do you plan on setting your idle to in drive? If needed, you can always add a vacuum canister and Moroso even makes an electric vacuum pump for this type of app.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: BuckeyeDemon on July 31, 2011, 12:17:29 pm
For a HR camshaft that will be dependable it is "on the edge" as far as being perky and making a boat load of power yet able to run good on pump gas.  I'm sure that my power brakes won't be working at idle.  I already have lined up an electric vacuum pump made for people driving street rides in my nice predicament.

Perky as in I'm guessing that it will really come alive from 4500 - 6500 rpm -- not a wide power band but my high stalling T/C will if needed to slip the engine up into it's higher power band rather quickly.

It will sound real nasty waiting at the stop light.  At low rpm it will probably not be very efficient letting lots of unburnt HC spew out of the exhaust pipes.  It will buck and snort like a young stallion at idle I'm sure.  That is how I like them.

If I decide to get wild with the gas pedal and get into it I'm sure that this cam will scream like a bat out of hell -- like I said probably around 4500rpm up to my 6500rpm shift point.

Any thoughts of any decent gas mileage probably went out the window weeks ago.  That my friends is the small price that I am willing to pay.  Any "tree huggers" here (I doubt it) please leave the room!      :spit:

The anticipation is killing me softly . . .      :whistling:

i'm sure it will be everything you want.  it appears you are definately excited which is what it's all about.

did you see the lobes on the 1000 ci motor that was in the latest issue of Hot Rod magazine?? 

for fun only, these are the lobes on my hyd roller.  the intensity on these are not the most aggressive, duration you make recall in the 236/244 and lobe lifts around 350's.

what rocker ratio are you using?

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/buckeyedemon/Forum%20Photos/IMG_5483.jpg)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 31, 2011, 12:35:05 pm
I have not seen that Hot Rod mag.

I am using 1.6 rocker arms.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 31, 2011, 12:40:21 pm
my cam is a fair bit bigger than yours and is a solid roller and to my surprise my power brakes work fine.
you have cubes on your side so you will have more power than you can use down low. ;)


Really?  I was thinking that I wouldn't have much manifold vacuum at idle.  If my vacuum runs under 10" my brakes don't work (power assisted that is).  How much vacuum do you get?

What are your cam's specs?

idle vacuum is not the same as running vacuum.


I know that.  But when I'm applying my brakes (as long as I'm not in 2nd gear of my modified C4) when I let go of the gas pedal my engine goes back down to it's carb set idle speed.



What rpm do you plan on setting your idle to in drive?


As low as I can go.  I want this thing to sound like a beast at idle!


If needed, you can always add a vacuum canister and Moroso even makes an electric vacuum pump for this type of app.


True.  If needed I have an electric vacuum pump already "picked out" from Summit.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fidstang on July 31, 2011, 03:11:02 pm
I think the engine that have to idle at 1000-1200rpm sound like beast, not a mild cam slowly lopping at 700rpm.

Did you go with a Thumper camshaft?  ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 31, 2011, 04:18:20 pm
I think the engine that have to idle at 1000-1200rpm sound like beast, not a mild cam slowly lopping at 700rpm.

Did you go with a Thumper camshaft?  ;D


Yeah -- the Biiiiiiig Muthu' Thumpu'!      :party

I will have to see what the engine likes as far as an idle speed.  Since this is not an OTS cam but a custom cam made for my engine/ride combo I think it will be able to idle lower than my other OTS HFT cam that really liked 1050rpm.

We will have to see.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on July 31, 2011, 04:22:17 pm
If you want to save a few bucks on that vacuum pump, hit the JY. GM used them on several compact cars in the 80s to boost stopping power.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on July 31, 2011, 05:29:25 pm
If you want to save a few bucks on that vacuum pump, hit the JY. GM used them on several compact cars in the 80s to boost stopping power.


Thanks.  Those ran on 12Vdc?  Nice!  Like on what '80s compacts?  Nova?  Sorry, IDK?

We will have to see how much idle vacuum this engine will make.  My old 363W would make only around 11.5" of idle vacuum.  This new engine will have a much wilder camshaft yet be more efficient compared to that old 363W junk of cobbled OTS parts that I scrounged together.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on July 31, 2011, 06:55:33 pm
FWDs. Cavaliers, etc..


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: woody on August 04, 2011, 11:33:30 am
Hi Robert,

Here are the pics of your machined block ready for assembly. More pictures to come....   :)

Nicole


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 04, 2011, 11:47:45 am
 :ahprepare:              :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on August 04, 2011, 11:57:12 am
This new engine will have a much wilder camshaft yet be more efficient compared to that old 363W junk of cobbled OTS parts that I scrounged together.

If you are going to compare the old combo to the new one...

I think you are going to soil yourself the first time you drive it... ;)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fidstang on August 08, 2011, 03:56:26 pm
I think we might be seeing a thread from Robert called "Crashed into a ditch part 2" when he gets on it the first time!  ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 08, 2011, 05:00:56 pm
I think we might be seeing a thread from Robert called "Crashed into a ditch part 2" when he gets on it the first time!  ;D


Twenty years ago, maybe.      :party



Today, nope.      :pimp


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 08, 2011, 06:52:14 pm
69 McMerc???

 :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: grslms51 on August 08, 2011, 07:35:37 pm
"power brakes...power brakes...we don't need no stinken power brakes"...throw that booster in the trash and put a man-u-well master cylinder on....who needs vacuum.LOL.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 08, 2011, 08:55:28 pm
69 McMerc???

 :party


Not me.  Nope.

I already went thru that I know everything and won't listen when others more experienced than me talk phase!      :whistling:

I don't really know how much power this new engine will make (hopefully a LOT!) but remember that me and the Merc weigh around 4000#.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 08, 2011, 08:58:53 pm
"power brakes...power brakes...we don't need no stinken power brakes"...throw that booster in the trash and put a man-u-well master cylinder on....who needs vacuum.LOL.


Earlier before the 363W blew I disconnected my manifold vacuum hose to the booster and drove it around town a bit.

It was trickier especially with some of the idiots driving around the city streets here.

I prefer power-assisted brakes considering how I'm 225# and the Merc is around 3800#.

If my new engine won't make at least 10" of vacuum at idle then I found a $250 electric vacuum motor that is made especially for street driving with lumpy cams that don't cut it vacuum-wise.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on August 08, 2011, 09:18:43 pm
Ive ran some pretty radical stuff with just a vacuum can.....worked pretty good for me.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 08, 2011, 09:23:13 pm
Ive ran some pretty radical stuff with just a vacuum can.....worked pretty good for me.


Good idea, Rich.  Thanks.

Good Lord -- can you "feel" my anticipation?  I can almost cut it's "aura" with a butter knife -- it is so thick!


 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: grslms51 on August 08, 2011, 09:37:35 pm
just busten your chops, Robert..i'm used to my- state of the art...4 wheel drum brakes(manual) on the comet...the darn thing stops pretty good for a 46 year old design.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on August 09, 2011, 08:43:08 am
just busten your chops, Robert..i'm used to my- state of the art...4 wheel drum brakes(manual) on the comet...the darn thing stops pretty good for a 46 year old design.

I remember when my '67 was still an I6, with both feet on the pedal, butt out of the seat and pulling on the steering wheel HOPING it would stop. ("Aw, c'mon mule, WHOA!")

Those were the teeny 4-lug 9" drum days.  Since then I went with SSB front discs and the nice, big drums out back on the 9" rear.  Still manual, but she stops WAAAAAY better now.  ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2011, 09:43:20 am
 :spit:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2011, 09:46:37 am
I have a new question to ponder and ask for advice -->


I want to either pull out the rubber (or just drill a couple bolt holes thru it) and install a couple of bolts (in the engine mount assembly) to make my OEM engine mounts solids OR buy some solid engine mounts to replace the OEM rubber ones.

Either way the "new" solid engine mounts will need to be the same height as the OEM ones so I don't have any fitment issues with my LT headers.

Any advice, guys?      :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2011, 10:10:34 am
I found this -- it's OEM for my ride.

I'm thinking I could just drill a couple holes thru it and insert a bolt and nut with washers, huh?


http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ANR0/2257.oap?year=1969&make=Mercury&model=Montego&vi=1201419&ck=Search_engine+mounts_02327_1201419_2954&keyword=engine+mounts&pt=02327&ppt=C0019 (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ANR0/2257.oap?year=1969&make=Mercury&model=Montego&vi=1201419&ck=Search_engine+mounts_02327_1201419_2954&keyword=engine+mounts&pt=02327&ppt=C0019)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on August 09, 2011, 11:23:33 am
Steel on bottom and top with just rubber in the middle?  I would weld a piece of iron to the sides on the mount to connect the top and bottom pieces.

Or cut off the mounting tabs on both ends and weld them t0 a similar size piece of bar stock.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2011, 12:23:03 pm
Steel on bottom and top with just rubber in the middle?  I would weld a piece of iron to the sides on the mount to connect the top and bottom pieces.

Or cut off the mounting tabs on both ends and weld them t0 a similar size piece of bar stock.


Hmmm.  Very good ideas.  Thanks, Nate.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: ochohill on August 09, 2011, 02:23:16 pm
I found this -- it's OEM for my ride.

I'm thinking I could just drill a couple holes thru it and insert a bolt and nut with washers, huh?


http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ANR0/2257.oap?year=1969&make=Mercury&model=Montego&vi=1201419&ck=Search_engine+mounts_02327_1201419_2954&keyword=engine+mounts&pt=02327&ppt=C0019 (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ANR0/2257.oap?year=1969&make=Mercury&model=Montego&vi=1201419&ck=Search_engine+mounts_02327_1201419_2954&keyword=engine+mounts&pt=02327&ppt=C0019)

It's commond to drill through these and bolt them. Use a sizeable bolt and a nylon locking threaded nut. Leave the nut a little loose to allow the mount to do its' job. If you can, be sure the mount is american made. There are some foreign mounts that don't last 6 months. This mod is sort of common in the vintage mustang arena.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jasonn on August 09, 2011, 02:28:13 pm
Much easier to just drill 2 - 3/8 holes and bolt.  Works VERY well.  I have done this to 3 different cars and they all work awesome.  I drill the holes, then counter sink the one side (the inside) so it is flush.  Then use a 3/8 socket head cap screw (countersink bolt) with a washer, some lock tight and a locknut.  I just tighten the nut so it JUST touches the washer (think zero lash lol) and then back up about 1/16 to 1/8 turn.  It gives the mount some movement, but when you are under load, it just pulls up to the bolt and then it goes nowhere.  You will break something else before you break the mount here.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2011, 02:31:56 pm
I found this -- it's OEM for my ride.

I'm thinking I could just drill a couple holes thru it and insert a bolt and nut with washers, huh?


http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ANR0/2257.oap?year=1969&make=Mercury&model=Montego&vi=1201419&ck=Search_engine+mounts_02327_1201419_2954&keyword=engine+mounts&pt=02327&ppt=C0019 (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ANR0/2257.oap?year=1969&make=Mercury&model=Montego&vi=1201419&ck=Search_engine+mounts_02327_1201419_2954&keyword=engine+mounts&pt=02327&ppt=C0019)

It's commond to drill through these and bolt them. Use a sizeable bolt and a nylon locking threaded nut. Leave the nut a little loose to allow the mount to do its' job. If you can, be sure the mount is american made. There are some foreign mounts that don't last 6 months. This mod is sort of common in the vintage mustang arena.


Much easier to just drill 2 - 3/8 holes and bolt.  Works VERY well.  I have done this to 3 different cars and they all work awesome.  I drill the holes, then counter sink the one side (the inside) so it is flush.  Then use a 3/8 socket head cap screw (countersink bolt) with a washer, some lock tight and a locknut.  I just tighten the nut so it JUST touches the washer (think zero lash lol) and then back up about 1/16 to 1/8 turn.  It gives the mount some movement, but when you are under load, it just pulls up to the bolt and then it goes nowhere.  You will break something else before you break the mount here.


Now we are cooking with fire!  Thanks guys.  I think that will be the easiest for me yet very functional!      :347ho:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 09, 2011, 07:48:23 pm
you can always put a torque link on it. on the higher end some heim joints with attached threads into a sleeve or you goto home depot and get a turn buckle and do it for about $5

you might like solid mounts though (like Nate said)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: quickshift on August 09, 2011, 07:56:46 pm
Steel on bottom and top with just rubber in the middle?  I would weld a piece of iron to the sides on the mount to connect the top and bottom pieces.


   That's what I did on the Comet. I tweaked the idea a little by using a solid trans mount as well BUT left the pass side with the rubber to help with harmonics and allow for any chassis flex.   :pimp


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2011, 08:50:21 pm
you can always put a torque link on it. on the higher end some heim joints with attached threads into a sleeve or you goto home depot and get a turn buckle and do it for about $5


I already have a driver's side torque link that I made myself with 3/8" chain that I attached to my head and where the front-end sway bar bolt into the frame.

On my passenger side I really don't have adequate room for another torque link.

Now that makes me wonder if the driver's side torque link that I currently have is enough?

When I get on the gas the engine flexes from driver's side to the right, naturally -- but with my torque link it has just a little bit of play (like barely any -- maybe 1/8") so now I don't know if solid engine mounts are necessary?      :dunno




Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on August 09, 2011, 09:41:03 pm
I wouldnt be attaching no chain to my cylinder head. Im sure your machinist would love the thought of an extra 400+ ftpds pulling on 1 end of a cylinder head.

Stop over anylizing and just get some mounts.

.....and throw the chain away for Gods sake.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on August 09, 2011, 10:03:20 pm
 :spit:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2011, 10:07:17 pm
I wouldnt be attaching no chain to my cylinder head. Im sure your machinist would love the thought of an extra 400+ ftpds pulling on 1 end of a cylinder head.

Stop over anylizing and just get some mounts.

.....and throw the chain away for Gods sake.


Oh crap.  I hadn't thought about that!

So I guess that this I will do -->




Much easier to just drill 2 - 3/8 holes and bolt.  Works VERY well.  I have done this to 3 different cars and they all work awesome.  I drill the holes, then counter sink the one side (the inside) so it is flush.  Then use a 3/8 socket head cap screw (countersink bolt) with a washer, some lock tight and a locknut.  I just tighten the nut so it JUST touches the washer (think zero lash lol) and then back up about 1/16 to 1/8 turn.  It gives the mount some movement, but when you are under load, it just pulls up to the bolt and then it goes nowhere.  You will break something else before you break the mount here.


Sound good?      :thanx:      :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on August 09, 2011, 10:13:05 pm
I guess.... :dunno

Do they make a solid mount for a SBF in a Montego/Torino?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2011, 10:15:51 pm
I guess.... :dunno

Do they make a solid mount for a SBF in a Montego/Torino?


I've been searching the Net and can't find one.      :wonder:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on August 09, 2011, 10:16:55 pm
I dont think youve searched hard enough.

......keep looking grasshoppa.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: superduty69 on August 09, 2011, 10:33:18 pm
I know i hunted for solid mounts for my mustang, and found nothing.

Much easier to just drill 2 - 3/8 holes and bolt.  Works VERY well.  I have done this to 3 different cars and they all work awesome.  I drill the holes, then counter sink the one side (the inside) so it is flush.  Then use a 3/8 socket head cap screw (countersink bolt) with a washer, some lock tight and a locknut.  I just tighten the nut so it JUST touches the washer (think zero lash lol) and then back up about 1/16 to 1/8 turn.  It gives the mount some movement, but when you are under load, it just pulls up to the bolt and then it goes nowhere.  You will break something else before you break the mount here.

I did this ^^^


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2011, 11:09:40 pm
I know i hunted for solid mounts for my mustang, and found nothing.

Much easier to just drill 2 - 3/8 holes and bolt.  Works VERY well.  I have done this to 3 different cars and they all work awesome.  I drill the holes, then counter sink the one side (the inside) so it is flush.  Then use a 3/8 socket head cap screw (countersink bolt) with a washer, some lock tight and a locknut.  I just tighten the nut so it JUST touches the washer (think zero lash lol) and then back up about 1/16 to 1/8 turn.  It gives the mount some movement, but when you are under load, it just pulls up to the bolt and then it goes nowhere.  You will break something else before you break the mount here.



I did this ^^^


I can't find solid engine mounts for my 1969 Mercury Montego, either.  They have everything Chevy this and Chevy that.      :puke

I'm going with the 3/8" bolt assembly idea.

That also guarantees that my engine will still be at the same height that way I don't have to attack my LT headers.      :bang


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jasonn on August 10, 2011, 12:56:04 pm
crap, I just reread this post.  I was a bit wrong on the bolt.  It is called a  FLAT head cap screw.  It has a 90dg angle on the bottom side of the head.  Sorry.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 10, 2011, 01:05:42 pm
crap, I just reread this post.  I was a bit wrong on the bolt.  It is called a  FLAT head cap screw.  It has a 90dg angle on the bottom side of the head.  Sorry.


Thanks for the correction.  I am going to follow your idea exactly.


Does the bottom side of the head have a 90* angle or a 45* angle (for a chamfered hole)?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jasonn on August 10, 2011, 02:36:53 pm
To be very accurate :It is a total of 82dg.  41dg on each side.  You will need what is called an 82dg countersink for the hole.  Just drill with it enough (after drilling your 3/8 clearance hole first of course)  so that the head of the bolt is flush.  English countersunk fasteners have the 82 dg angle.  Metric fasteners have 90dg.  Go figure.  I should really be a bit more accurate when I am first posting.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 10, 2011, 03:40:04 pm
To be very accurate :It is a total of 82dg.  41dg on each side.  You will need what is called an 82dg countersink for the hole.  Just drill with it enough (after drilling your 3/8 clearance hole first of course)  so that the head of the bolt is flush.  English countersunk fasteners have the 82 dg angle.  Metric fasteners have 90dg.  Go figure.  I should really be a bit more accurate when I am first posting.


I appreciate your time to re-read your post and to the make necessary corrections.  Most excellent!      :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 10, 2011, 04:53:26 pm
*** BREAKING NEWS FLASH ***


My engine should be shipping this Monday.


Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      :whistling:

 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on August 10, 2011, 06:25:24 pm
That's awesome Robert.   :party

Do you have everything lined up that you'll need to drop it in?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on August 10, 2011, 06:36:54 pm
*** BREAKING NEWS FLASH ***


My engine should be shipping this Monday.


Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      :whistling:

 :burnout
Congrats!.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on August 10, 2011, 07:15:05 pm
Someones gonna have some sleepless nights. Right on chum!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 10, 2011, 07:51:33 pm
That's awesome Robert.   :party

Do you have everything lined up that you'll need to drop it in?


As far as I know!  (Gaskets, fuel hose, bolts, headers and exhaust, carb, fuel pump, plugs, wires, distributor, etc.)

And some extra cash for those little things that were either forgotten or present themselves later as you are buttoning up the engine until you fire it up!      :whistling:


*** P.S.  I am the holder of all of those parts that I listed above (gaskets, etc.) that way I will be the first one to fire up the new engine.  My friend who owns a trans shop will be exchanging the 363W for the new 408W for me because where I live I do not have the room.

Then I will tow it back to my residence and do the final touches on the engine and it will roar to life at my house by my hand on the remote starter switch with the wife in the car monitoring the oil pressure gauge, manifold vacuum gauge and tach.

 :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 10, 2011, 07:52:11 pm
*** BREAKING NEWS FLASH ***


My engine should be shipping this Monday.


Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      :whistling:

 :burnout
Congrats!.


Thanks.  The day is a finally comin'!      :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 10, 2011, 07:53:44 pm
Someones gonna have some sleepless nights. Right on chum!


Those sleepless nights have started pretty much the beginning of this month 'cuz I knew that it is real close!      :spit:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on August 10, 2011, 08:21:07 pm
It is like being 6 years old on christmas eve all over again.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 10, 2011, 08:41:19 pm
It is like being 6 years old on christmas eve all over again.


:amen:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: grslms51 on August 10, 2011, 09:29:22 pm
Good to hear,Merc....doesn't seem like that long ago that the old engine took a dump..probably seems like years to you...i wish i had that BAD BOY going in my car.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 10, 2011, 10:53:31 pm
Good to hear,Merc....doesn't seem like that long ago that the old engine took a dump..probably seems like years to you...i wish i had that BAD BOY going in my car.


Thanks, man.

I've been kinda saving for the last two years and seriously saving this past 8 months.

7+ months on the city bus blows like BIGTIME!


I will take some pics and post them here of my torn down engine before the tow truck comes to take it to my friend's trans shop tomorrow in the afternoon.

(And more posted pics of it when I tow it back to my house before/during/after I start assembling the carb, fuel pump and hoses, distributor, headers, wiring and etc!)      :)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lonestang95 on August 10, 2011, 11:06:30 pm
Congatulations Robert. Hopefully not too much longer and i will get the new that my shortblock getting underway and done. Only I will be able to take my happy ass to fordstrokers and pick it up.. Then i will start a build thread haha :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 11, 2011, 12:07:47 am
Congatulations Robert. Hopefully not too much longer and i will get the new that my shortblock getting underway and done. Only I will be able to take my happy ass to fordstrokers and pick it up.. Then i will start a build thread haha :party


From Iowa to outside of Chicago?      :jawdrop:


It will be nice to watch your build thread, too.


What size engine are you getting?  Any details?      :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lonestang95 on August 11, 2011, 12:19:37 am
Yea it is only about 2 1/2 hours or so to Jims shop. Mine is a 95 mustang dart 427
20cc dish piston
 12.0 compression
235 fox lake stage 3 ported tfsr heads, 51cc 2.15/1.60 valves 360/270 cfm flow
solid roller cam
super vic efi intake ported by duane busch
holley hp efi system
tko 600 mmr 900 buying off Nate
team z suspension front and rear
strange brakes manual steering
originally boughr rich's 205s for a 363 build but got a better job and decided to go bigger. Can't wait to get going on it. Don't want to jack your thread lol.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: travis_ranger2000 on August 11, 2011, 12:35:56 am
Merc, I can not wait to see pics and videos of your new set up!  I'm totally addicted to this site, and really love reading everyones builds.  As you know I'm laid off again and don't sleep well when not working, so yeah I'm on here all hours of the night reading.  I am all new to the ford way so anything I can read to help, I'm there.  Woody seems alot like my machinist, willing to share their knowledge!  I went over to the shop yesterday and he put me to work on it, I chamfered the the main caps, and the other half on the block for the honeing, deburred all the oil return holes.  Anyhow,, I understand how excited you are,, I feel like a teenager again.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Captbb56 on August 11, 2011, 06:55:44 am
I'am excited for you Robert. A Dart block built by Woody is on my bucket list!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Nitro on August 11, 2011, 07:16:43 am
Congrats Robert. Look forward to seeing that beast running.

Don't forget the drain that old gas.  :Gluck:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 11, 2011, 09:41:29 am
Yea it is only about 2 1/2 hours or so to Jims shop. Mine is a 95 mustang dart 427
20cc dish piston
 12.0 compression
235 fox lake stage 3 ported tfsr heads, 51cc 2.15/1.60 valves 360/270 cfm flow
solid roller cam
super vic efi intake ported by duane busch
holley hp efi system
tko 600 mmr 900 buying off Nate
team z suspension front and rear
strange brakes manual steering
originally boughr rich's 205s for a 363 build but got a better job and decided to go bigger. Can't wait to get going on it. Don't want to jack your thread lol.



Don't worry about jacking the thread.  I am interested in all Ford engines.

Yours sounds like a monster!  LOL!

What are your cam specs?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lonestang95 on August 11, 2011, 09:45:14 am
Im not sure yet. I changed my mind on letting woody take care of the cam for me. I have to give him credit for his patients since i have changed my build a few times on him. lol


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 11, 2011, 09:46:31 am
Merc, I can not wait to see pics and videos of your new set up!  I'm totally addicted to this site, and really love reading everyones builds.  As you know I'm laid off again and don't sleep well when not working, so yeah I'm on here all hours of the night reading.  I am all new to the ford way so anything I can read to help, I'm there.  Woody seems alot like my machinist, willing to share their knowledge!  I went over to the shop yesterday and he put me to work on it, I chamfered the the main caps, and the other half on the block for the honeing, deburred all the oil return holes.  Anyhow,, I understand how excited you are,, I feel like a teenager again.


Like it was posted earlier here -- I feel like a little kid right before Christmas Day all over again!  (Sleep?  Huh?)      :naughty:

I hope that you can find some decent work soon.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 11, 2011, 09:49:09 am
Im not sure yet. I changed my mind on letting woody take care of the cam for me.


Really?

Did you see the crazy street pump gas HR camshaft that is going in my 408ci from Woody's help and Bob at Cam Motion?  (It's in my signature down below)

 :jawdrop:


Did you know that they will work with you on picking the lobes -- as far as talking with you about it first and then telling you what they think is the best performance recommendation before they actually make the cam.      :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 11, 2011, 09:50:43 am
I'am excited for you Robert. A Dart block built by Woody is on my bucket list!


Very nice!  You will have to make a "under construction" thread so I can see how it's going!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 11, 2011, 09:52:53 am
Congrats Robert. Look forward to seeing that beast running.

Don't forget the drain that old gas.  :Gluck:


I finally got around to doing that last weekend.  (That made a lil' friggin' mess by the way!)  LOL!

I also gave the Merc a solid shower and made her look real presentable so my friend at the trans shop doesn't laugh too hard!      :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lonestang95 on August 11, 2011, 09:58:27 am
Yea i saw yours. A very nice piece of hardware. I know how cam motion or bullet will work with you, i was just gonna order it through them myself but at the last minute figured for the price its worth just letting woody take care if it all. Then he can check and make sure all the specs are correct.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 13, 2011, 03:35:27 pm
Engine shipped by Daylight Transport last Friday out of O'Hare airport.  My friend who is helping me (because I live in a stinkin' trailer park!  LOL!) might receive the engine this Monday.      :)

He is looking around for some polyurethane engine mounts since I have thrown away my torque chain and I know that the OEM rubber engine mounts will not stand up to the power of the 408ci.

If he can't find some suitable ones (with the same engine ride height) then he will turn my rubber ones into solids.

A few have posted here about using solid mounts -- I wonder how much vibration you feel with them?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Nitro on August 13, 2011, 04:54:47 pm
 :clap Want be long now.  :clap


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on August 13, 2011, 08:34:14 pm
The difference between solid and rubber engine mounts in my experience is... minimal... at worst.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 13, 2011, 08:37:27 pm
The difference between solid and rubber engine mounts in my experience is... minimal... at worst.


That is really good news for me!      :clap

Thanks Nate.

How is your turbo build coming?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on August 13, 2011, 08:39:39 pm
How is your turbo build coming?

Ahhh...slow and frustrating...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 13, 2011, 08:41:11 pm
How is your turbo build coming?

Ahhh...slow and frustrating...


Why?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on August 13, 2011, 08:46:37 pm

I have very little time to devote to it.  And when I do... nothing seems to go together like I planned.

Good luck on your build.  I am excited for you and look forward to hearing how it works!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Red5.0 on August 13, 2011, 09:26:11 pm
The difference between solid and rubber engine mounts in my experience is... minimal... at worst.

You have never had a set of rubber motor mounts tear?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 13, 2011, 10:18:58 pm
The difference between solid and rubber engine mounts in my experience is... minimal... at worst.

You have never had a set of rubber motor mounts tear?


Nate was answering my question -- "how much more do solid mounts vibrate compared to the rubber ones that the driver has to feel?"


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on August 14, 2011, 02:51:11 am
The difference between solid and rubber engine mounts in my experience is... minimal... at worst.

You have never had a set of rubber motor mounts tear?


Nate was answering my question -- "how much more do solid mounts vibrate compared to the rubber ones that the driver has to feel?"

Drill your stock mounts, add the grade 8 bolt, red lock tight, and enjoy.  I've been in a rough idling solid roller cammed 406 high octane '68 Camaro on the street a few times with solid mounts.  I may be more of a cave man than most, but solid mounts are not that noticeable even in that application if you ask me.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Red5.0 on August 14, 2011, 03:46:49 am
The difference between solid and rubber engine mounts in my experience is... minimal... at worst.

You have never had a set of rubber motor mounts tear?


Nate was answering my question -- "how much more do solid mounts vibrate compared to the rubber ones that the driver has to feel?"

Got it now, im sorry. I obviously overlooked something.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2011, 09:20:57 am
The difference between solid and rubber engine mounts in my experience is... minimal... at worst.

You have never had a set of rubber motor mounts tear?


Nate was answering my question -- "how much more do solid mounts vibrate compared to the rubber ones that the driver has to feel?"

Drill your stock mounts, add the grade 8 bolt, red lock tight, and enjoy.  I've been in a rough idling solid roller cammed 406 high octane '68 Camaro on the street a few times with solid mounts.  I may be more of a cave man than most, but solid mounts are not that noticeable even in that application if you ask me.


Grade 8 bolts and red lock-tight modified solid engine mounts it is, then.

Thanks guys for your help -- because it will save me some money which is a little bit tight right now in preparation for the extras needed to fire up the engine.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Red5.0 on August 14, 2011, 03:39:21 pm
Not to mention you will need the extra money for gas, because when you get that bad boy running you are going to want to drive the hell out of it.  :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2011, 06:46:36 pm
Not to mention you will need the extra money for gas, because when you get that bad boy running you are going to want to drive the hell out of it.  :rock


You know it, man!!!!

According to the tracking that I'm doing with Daylight Transportation the engine was dropped off at LAX at 11:58am.

My friend at the transmission shop is supposed to get my engine tomorrow!      :ahprepare:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2011, 07:09:52 pm
If a dead engine is missing the intake manifold and the heads -- how hard is it to pull that engine out of a ride with a "cherry picker" if the trans is removed first?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on August 14, 2011, 07:13:30 pm
If a dead engine is missing the intake manifold and the heads -- how hard is it to pull that engine out of a ride with a "cherry picker" if the trans is removed first?

About 10 min


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lonestang95 on August 14, 2011, 07:13:52 pm
I am very envious of you my friend. I am kind of at that point right now where its been so long since you have driven your car and done anything with it that you almost forget why you spend so much money and time with it.
I think once i hear my shortblock is done and i finally see something starting to take shape it will rekindle my ambition to get to work. Enjoy


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: superduty69 on August 14, 2011, 07:37:13 pm
Really glad for you Robert, your enthusiasm comes thru in your posts!

Good luck!! :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 14, 2011, 07:40:49 pm
If a dead engine is missing the intake manifold and the heads -- how hard is it to pull that engine out of a ride with a "cherry picker" if the trans is removed first?

Are you going to transfer your old heads and intake to the 408?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2011, 07:52:36 pm
If a dead engine is missing the intake manifold and the heads -- how hard is it to pull that engine out of a ride with a "cherry picker" if the trans is removed first?

Are you going to transfer your old heads and intake to the 408?


OMG no way!

The old heads are Performer RPM's and the intake is an Air-Gap dual plane.  Way too restrictive.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2011, 07:53:24 pm
If a dead engine is missing the intake manifold and the heads -- how hard is it to pull that engine out of a ride with a "cherry picker" if the trans is removed first?

About 10 min


 :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2011, 07:54:05 pm
I am very envious of you my friend. I am kind of at that point right now where its been so long since you have driven your car and done anything with it that you almost forget why you spend so much money and time with it.
I think once i hear my shortblock is done and i finally see something starting to take shape it will rekindle my ambition to get to work. Enjoy


Thank you and I hope that your life turns around for the better.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2011, 07:55:09 pm
Really glad for you Robert, your enthusiasm comes thru in your posts!

Good luck!! :rock


Thanks.  I am so excited I am waking up in the middle of the night thinking about my new engine and how it will be driving it . . .      :)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lonestang95 on August 14, 2011, 07:59:05 pm
I am very envious of you my friend. I am kind of at that point right now where its been so long since you have driven your car and done anything with it that you almost forget why you spend so much money and time with it.
I think once i hear my shortblock is done and i finally see something starting to take shape it will rekindle my ambition to get to work. Enjoy


Thank you and I hope that your life turns around for the better.
everything is going great. just Lost ambition for a bit is all. Just sitting, waiting anxiously is all. You know how that feels. lol


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2011, 08:02:21 pm
I am very envious of you my friend. I am kind of at that point right now where its been so long since you have driven your car and done anything with it that you almost forget why you spend so much money and time with it.
I think once i hear my shortblock is done and i finally see something starting to take shape it will rekindle my ambition to get to work. Enjoy


Thank you and I hope that your life turns around for the better.
everything is going great. just Lost ambition for a bit is all. Just sitting, waiting anxiously is all. You know how that feels. lol


Yes sir I do.




Yep -- "patience is a virtue", right?


(We both know that we would like to kick in the teeth of the person who first coined that phrase, huh?)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: grslms51 on August 14, 2011, 08:08:16 pm
are you going to sell your old heads,intake,cam,etc?..or are they already sold?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 14, 2011, 08:48:20 pm
OMG no way!

The old heads are Performer RPM's and the intake is an Air-Gap dual plane.  Way too restrictive.

I didn't read the whole thread, but, are you buying a long block or short block? If long, was it dyno tested?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lonestang95 on August 14, 2011, 09:36:39 pm
I am very envious of you my friend. I am kind of at that point right now where its been so long since you have driven your car and done anything with it that you almost forget why you spend so much money and time with it.
I think once i hear my shortblock is done and i finally see something starting to take shape it will rekindle my ambition to get to work. Enjoy
You are correct doctor. lol


Thank you and I hope that your life turns around for the better.
everything is going great. just Lost ambition for a bit is all. Just sitting, waiting anxiously is all. You know how that feels. lol


Yes sir I do.




Yep -- "patience is a virtue", right?


(We both know that we would like to kick in the teeth of the person who first coined that phrase, huh?)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2011, 09:50:40 pm
are you going to sell your old heads,intake,cam,etc?..or are they already sold?


I wouldn't know what to ask for on them?

The only thing that could be for sale would be the RPM 2.02" heads and the Air-Gap.

My old 363W had like crappy dished pistons (I was told that they were EPA friendly 8.5 CR so the heads will milled to the limit to try and get 9.5ish CR out of the old engine)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2011, 09:52:50 pm
OMG no way!

The old heads are Performer RPM's and the intake is an Air-Gap dual plane.  Way too restrictive.

I didn't read the whole thread, but, are you buying a long block or short block? If long, was it dyno tested?


Long block including timing cover, harmonic balancer, short block, oil pump and 7 quart pan, etc.

No valve covers, no carb, no plugs, no wires, no water and fuel pump because at home I have all of that.

Dyno tested -- no.  I will be the first to bring it to life at my house.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 14, 2011, 09:56:14 pm
Long block including timing cover, harmonic balancer, short block, oil pump and 7 quart pan, etc.

No valve covers, no carb, no plugs, no wires, no water and fuel pump because at home I have all of that.

Dyno tested -- no.  I will be the first to bring it to life at my house.

What was your bill with fordstrokers?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2011, 10:00:29 pm
Long block including timing cover, harmonic balancer, short block, oil pump and 7 quart pan, etc.

No valve covers, no carb, no plugs, no wires, no water and fuel pump because at home I have all of that.

Dyno tested -- no.  I will be the first to bring it to life at my house.

What was your bill with fordstrokers?


For real?

2 years of saving (with 8 months of really saving when the old 363W through a rod thru the block and pan)!

 :spit:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2011, 10:03:32 pm
The engine should make around 550hp (?) (I don't think I'm too high on that number and it might be higher even???)

If I knew how to drive it at the track with slicks "the Wallace" says it could run 11.35ish ET.

I really don't know.

I'm guessing that I will totally love driving it and will try and stay away from the Police ticket givers and my whiny ass neighbors who try and equate 2 minutes of warm-up 6:30 in the morning Monday thru Friday going to work with their crappy oohpa-loompa Mariachi music that they love to play loudly.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 14, 2011, 10:08:34 pm
For real?

2 years of saving (with 8 months of really saving when the old 363W through a rod thru the block and pan)!

 :spit:

So, what was it, like $7000?

Thats what my last long block was.

If you don't want to say I wont push it. I was just curious what a custom long block stroker costs at fordstrokers. I perused their site, a combo like your's doesnt seem to be there.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2011, 10:19:17 pm
Like $7.9K


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2011, 10:21:34 pm
I got the T.E.A. cnc'd TW 205cc heads with better valve-springs that could handle my custom billet camshaft.

I wanted a good balancer and a good 7 quart pan.

I also wanted the good lifters and not the dog-bone type with the spider tray.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 14, 2011, 10:24:24 pm
And it comes with a Super Vic intake.

That might have had to have been milled to fit the heads well.  I don't know yet, though.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 15, 2011, 01:53:48 am
I got the T.E.A. cnc'd TW 205cc heads with better valve-springs that could handle my custom billet camshaft.

Billet cam? What distributor gear will you use? I heard that you MUST use a self sacrificial gear ie. bronze or plastic.

And why didn't you go bigger than 408?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 15, 2011, 02:01:31 am
I got the T.E.A. cnc'd TW 205cc heads with better valve-springs that could handle my custom billet camshaft.

Billet cam? What distributor gear will you use? I heard that you MUST use a self sacrificial gear ie. bronze or plastic.

And why didn't you go bigger than 408?


Those bronze gears for steel billet camshafts is an old wives tale and they don't last worth nothing.  Jim told me to go with a steel distributor gear.  That is what I did.

Since I used a 9.5" stock block Jim warned me about cap-walk when stroking longer than 4".  He advised me that yeah he could do a 427" with a 4.19" stroke but that it might not last as long as just a 4" stroke.

He knows that I like to rev these engines with my high stall T/C.  IOW the engine will see lots of 3000rpm to 6000rpm constantly with a 6500rpm redline.

Another world or another day -- I would have waited longer and saved up another $2000 for a Dart block but I had ran out of patience.  With this crappy economy trying to find a weekend job was darn near impossible.

Since I'm always keeping this engine N/A and have my rev-limiter set at 6500rpm it should last for a while.      ;)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 15, 2011, 02:14:07 am
Those bronze gears for steel billet camshafts is an old wives tale and they don't last worth nothing.  Jim told me to go with a steel distributor gear.  That is what I did.

I am no authority on the subject but I was told by the guys at COMP CAMS to never use a steel/melonized steel gear with a billet cam...ONLY bronze or plastic. For austempered ductile iron cams however, the steel gear will do just dandy.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on August 15, 2011, 04:30:59 am
Those bronze gears for steel billet camshafts is an old wives tale and they don't last worth nothing.  Jim told me to go with a steel distributor gear.  That is what I did.

I am no authority on the subject but I was told by the guys at COMP CAMS to never use a steel/melonized steel gear with a billet cam...ONLY bronze or plastic. For austempered ductile iron cams however, the steel gear will do just dandy.

My cam guy told me to use a steel gear with my billet cam. Still fine after over two years.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on August 15, 2011, 05:11:39 am
Damn Merc, Im sure you are like a kid in the candy store... Get that bitch running.... Depending on what little misc stuff you might need, i may have it. I got a couple sets of new plugs if you need em, might have a set of wires somewhere. also some bolts n stuff. Where is the trans shop?
Wishing I had some extra $$$ right now, id take those heads off ya for a 302 I need to put together.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on August 15, 2011, 08:11:28 am
Steel gear on a billet cam here also. Still looks good. After..... I don't know, a year I guess. Comp Cams says it to save their ass.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 15, 2011, 09:31:57 am
Those bronze gears for steel billet camshafts is an old wives tale and they don't last worth nothing.  Jim told me to go with a steel distributor gear.  That is what I did.

I am no authority on the subject but I was told by the guys at COMP CAMS to never use a steel/melonized steel gear with a billet cam...ONLY bronze or plastic.


It's not necessary and you will be floating pieces of that wimpy distributor gear through your engine until it's time to change it which will be regularly.


For austempered ductile iron cams however, the steel gear will do just dandy.


I think that you are supposed to use iron distributor gears (that come OEM with all of the distributors that I've seen be them OEM or aftermarket) for SADI cams -- not steel gears.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 15, 2011, 09:47:15 am
Damn Merc, Im sure you are like a kid in the candy store... Get that bitch running....


Yes I am!!!

Depending on when the old engine is out, my rubber engine mounts are modified to be solids, my trans has been looked over and a safety blanket has been wrapped around it and the new engine put in I am letting my boss at work know that I will be requesting the rest of that week off of work to devote all of my time getting it running.


Depending on what little misc stuff you might need, i may have it. I got a couple sets of new plugs if you need em, might have a set of wires somewhere. also some bolts n stuff.


Thanks but I already have all of that stuff new.


Where is the trans shop?


It's a transmission shop called Westminster Transmission in the city of Garden Grove.  It's on the corner of Goldenwest street and Wesminster boulevard.



Wishing I had some extra $$$ right now, id take those heads off ya for a 302 I need to put together.


I can save them for you.  Heck to be honest with you they have some miles on them.  Maybe 50,000?  And they look like they have 50,000 miles on them.  I wouldn't feel right charging you for them.

And I had a crappy Champion plug let go which embedded some of it's porcelain junk in one of the quench pads.  I "green padded" some of it off but I didn't get all perfect with it.

Tell you what -- you pay shipping and you can have those RPM heads.      :)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on August 15, 2011, 09:59:19 am
Damn Merc, Im sure you are like a kid in the candy store... Get that bitch running....


Yes I am!!!

Depending on when the old engine is out, my rubber engine mounts are modified to be solids, my trans has been looked over and a safety blanket has been wrapped around it and the new engine put in I am letting my boss at work know that I will be requesting the rest of that week off of work to devote all of my time getting it running.



Depending on what little misc stuff you might need, i may have it. I got a couple sets of new plugs if you need em, might have a set of wires somewhere. also some bolts n stuff.


Thanks but I already have all of that stuff new.


Where is the trans shop?


It's a transmission shop called Westminster Transmission in the city of Garden Grove.  It's on the corner of Goldenwest street and Wesminster boulevard.



Wishing I had some extra $$$ right now, id take those heads off ya for a 302 I need to put together.


I can save them for you.  Heck to be honest with you they have some miles on them.  Maybe 50,000?  And they look like they have 50,000 miles on them.  I wouldn't feel right charging you for them.

And I had a crappy Champion plug let go which embedded some of it's porcelain junk in one of the quench pads.  I "green padded" some of it off but I didn't get all perfect with it.

Tell you what -- you pay shipping and you can have those RPM heads.      :)
I cant take em for free, but I am sure we can work something out somehow....
I am right down the street remember... lol Cerritos/La Palma/Buena Park/Anaheim.
I wanna see you get your car going, I know you been waiting a while.. Im very certian it will put a koolaid smile on your face
Ive seen that shop before. used to pass by there all the time.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 15, 2011, 10:03:42 am

I cant take em for free, but I am sure we can work something out somehow....
I am right down the street remember... lol Cerritos/La Palma/Buena Park/Anaheim.
I wanna see you get your car going, I know you been waiting a while.. Im very certian it will put a koolaid smile on your face



OK.  That sounds good.  I will save them for you.

I thought (duh!) that Cerritos is further north past LA county.

Then we don't have to worry about shipping Fedex or UPS.  Nice!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on August 15, 2011, 10:10:59 am
I used to work in your neck of the woods off La Palma and Magnolia


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 15, 2011, 02:12:10 pm

It's not necessary and you will be floating pieces of that wimpy distributor gear through your engine until it's time to change it which will be regularly.


For austempered ductile iron cams however, the steel gear will do just dandy.

I think that you are supposed to use iron distributor gears (that come OEM with all of the distributors that I've seen be them OEM or aftermarket) for SADI cams -- not steel gears.

If you have a cast iron hydraulic or solid flat tappet cam, your distributor gear options are:

1. Cast iron distributor gear

2. Composite distributor gear

If you have an austempered ductile iron hydraulic or solid roller cam, your two options are:

1. Melonized or hardened steel distributor gear

2. Composite distributor gear

If you have a billet steel hydraulic or solid roller cam, your two options are:

1. Bronze distributor gear

2. Composite distributor gear


http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/properly-matching-your-comp-cams-camshaft-2519.html

Maybe comp is just protecting themselves or maybe there is some truth to what they say. Just figured I would throw this out there.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 15, 2011, 02:42:41 pm
Jim (my engine builder) has built hundreds of engines.  If he recommends using a steel distributor gear with my billet camshaft then that is what I'm doing.

Sometimes the tech at certain aftermarket companies for whatever reason list bogus material on their websites.

Another point in question -- Holley still to this day lists incorrectly on how to pick a PV on their website.  I have personally found that for best performance 2" under your idle vacuum is ideal.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on August 15, 2011, 03:26:03 pm

It's not necessary and you will be floating pieces of that wimpy distributor gear through your engine until it's time to change it which will be regularly.


For austempered ductile iron cams however, the steel gear will do just dandy.

I think that you are supposed to use iron distributor gears (that come OEM with all of the distributors that I've seen be them OEM or aftermarket) for SADI cams -- not steel gears.

If you have a cast iron hydraulic or solid flat tappet cam, your distributor gear options are:

1. Cast iron distributor gear

2. Composite distributor gear

If you have an austempered ductile iron hydraulic or solid roller cam, your two options are:

1. Melonized or hardened steel distributor gear

2. Composite distributor gear

If you have a billet steel hydraulic or solid roller cam, your two options are:

1. Bronze distributor gear

2. Composite distributor gear


http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/properly-matching-your-comp-cams-camshaft-2519.html

Maybe comp is just protecting themselves or maybe there is some truth to what they say. Just figured I would throw this out there.

It may also just be for Comp Cams' camshafts.  Most of us have been running billet core cams with steel distributor gears for years without issue!

Its always best to talk to your cam grinder or cam company when matching components.  I have owned roller camshafts that specified a cast iron gear before because that is the way it was designed.  Nothing more...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on August 15, 2011, 05:05:14 pm
Can't remember where I heard it. But I'm sure it depends on the type of gear used on the cam. Some are not the same material as the cam is.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Nitro on August 15, 2011, 06:04:13 pm
Bronze gear on a comp roller cam at comps recommendation.
Gear new.
 (http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j437/originalnitro/Jul05_0001.jpg)
Less than 100 miles later.
 (http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j437/originalnitro/IMAG0225.jpg)
Notice the grooves and thinning in the middle.
IMO bronze is a :nono2: on a roller.

Where's the pics of the 408  :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 15, 2011, 07:53:43 pm
Those 408W pics are coming.

Sorry but I don't have a ride to the shop for a couple of days.

He said that it should be done this week.

For sure when I tow my Merc back to my house I will take pics and post them here.      :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 15, 2011, 08:32:30 pm
 :rock  Start up vid would be awesome!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 15, 2011, 08:40:00 pm
:rock  Start up vid would be awesome!


Videos coming, too.

I know that I like hearing AND seeing someone's ride.      :naughty:

I asked for a nasty cam and I believe that this one is for a HR in a DD.      :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 15, 2011, 09:20:01 pm
A vid of that sh** eating grin as it fires up... priceless


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on August 15, 2011, 09:23:01 pm
Damn Merc, If you want a ride down there let me know...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 15, 2011, 09:25:59 pm
Damn Merc, If you want a ride down there let me know...


No problem.  He is real busy and I've called him enough times already.  I am going to keep him happy by giving him some space -- that is how he likes it.  I will have plenty of chances to take some pics and video when I tow it back home.

Thanks, man.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 17, 2011, 09:29:08 pm
An update on my engine -- it looks like I will be getting my Merc next week and I will have the rest of that week and the long holiday weekend to get her running.

I had to have my 363W flexplate modified to remove it's counter weights because the 408ci is internally balanced and not buying a new one is saving me some money to put in the gas tank.

Also my OEM rubber engine mounts are getting metal plates welded top to bottom on the mount's brackets to make them solids while retaining the same exact engine height as before.  (Mustang LT 1-3/4" headers on a '69 Mercury Montego MX!)

It should be even better than my dreams of how it is really going to perform!      :naughty:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on August 17, 2011, 10:03:10 pm
Congrats merc...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: quick26 on August 17, 2011, 10:28:56 pm
we need pictures!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 17, 2011, 10:38:59 pm
we need pictures!


That will happen when I tow my Merc back home.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on August 18, 2011, 09:40:45 am
don't forget to put oil in your new engine. :gfy :orglaugh


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 18, 2011, 09:47:32 am
And, if you should be planning on running synthetic, break it on regular.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 18, 2011, 09:49:50 am
don't forget to put oil in your new engine. :gfy :orglaugh


I hear you.  More than you know!

Many years ago, when I used to party and ingest things that made you not want to sleep for days (like a fucking young idiot!), me and some bros changed his intake manifold from a dual to a single plane after staying up all night and starting off the morning with wine to kill our hangovers.      :whistling:

We then proceeded to drive the hell out of the new found performance.

This was in the heat of a hot summer in San Bernardino after a few couple miles or so it seized up.

Us dumbasses where so exhausted and starved that we forgot to put back in the coolant!


 :chair            :bang


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 18, 2011, 09:56:49 am
And, if you should be planning on running synthetic, break it on regular.


Woody suggested to me that I should run Rotella's 15w-40 engine oil.

I will use it for the break-in and all of the time after that, too.

He and I know that it is usually hot here where I live, the ride and I are real heavy, it has a 4.56 rear gear with a 3 speed auto and a high stalling T/C -- this engine is going to get revved high all of the time.

Cruise street speed is 50mph which makes out to be 3000rpm on the Merc.      :347ho:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: quick26 on August 18, 2011, 10:01:26 pm
And, if you should be planning on running synthetic, break it on regular.


Woody suggested to me that I should run Rotella's 15w-40 engine oil.

I will use it for the break-in and all of the time after that, too.

He and I know that it is usually hot here where I live, the ride and I are real heavy, it has a 4.56 rear gear with a 3 speed auto and a high stalling T/C -- this engine is going to get revved high all of the time.

Cruise street speed is 50mph which makes out to be 3000rpm on the Merc.      :347ho:

thats what i was running, i swapped over to the 5w40 synthetic.  the 15w40 is not.  they both end up the same thickness,  i was having starting issues when it snowed here last year.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 18, 2011, 10:10:47 pm
I live next to Disneyland in southern CA.  It doesn't ever really get cold here.

IMHO synthetics of the same "weight" get thinner when they are warmed up compared to conventional engine oils.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on August 19, 2011, 09:33:24 am
I live next to Disneyland in southern CA.  It doesn't ever really get cold here.

IMHO synthetics of the same "weight" get thinner when they are warmed up compared to conventional engine oils.

my grandma i use to visit like every weekend when i was young lived on percheron st which is like 2-3 miles west down ball road from disneyland

i came from Riverside CA so we had year passes to disneyland and went quite frequently back in the early/mid 90's


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 19, 2011, 11:04:38 am
I live next to Disneyland in southern CA.  It doesn't ever really get cold here.

IMHO synthetics of the same "weight" get thinner when they are warmed up compared to conventional engine oils.

my grandma i use to visit like every weekend when i was young lived on percheron st which is like 2-3 miles west down ball road from disneyland

i came from Riverside CA so we had year passes to disneyland and went quite frequently back in the early/mid 90's


From newborn to 18 I grew up in Phoenix.  Every summer we would vacation here (CA) and I would love going to Disneyland as a youngster.  It was my favorite place on Earth!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 21, 2011, 04:30:40 pm
I have a Pertronix distributor that has a .500" shaft.

I bought a .500" steel distributor gear to go with my billet camshaft.

The gear is so tight going on the shaft that I can not push it further up the shaft to where it needs to go than the 3/4" or so that I have it on the shaft right now.

I don't know how to make it work.

Unless I get "stupid" (which will probably break something!) with it I can not remove it, either.

I am planning on taking it to my friend's shop Monday to see if he can help me -- being that he has years more experience and loads more tools than I do.

Any ideas?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 21, 2011, 04:37:46 pm
I have a Pertronix distributor that has a .500" shaft.

I bought a .500" steel distributor gear to go with my billet camshaft.

The gear is so tight going on the shaft that I can not push it further up the shaft to where it needs to go than the 3/4" or so that I have it on the shaft right now.

I don't know how to make it work.

Unless I get "stupid" (which will probably break something!) with it I can not remove it, either.

I am planning on taking it to my friend's shop Monday to see if he can help me -- being that he has years more experience and loads more tools than I do.

Any ideas?

This is what I use...

Hydraulic press
Small bearing splitter
Small socket (sometimes....depending of the distributor)
Deep socket
Drill press and 1/8 drill bit

Use the deep socket to press the gear on

Use the bearing slpitter to press the gear off

Use the small socket (if needed) to put at the other end of the distributor shaft (near the springs and weights).

Put the distributor in the drill press to drill the hole through the new gear






You are using a hydraulic press right?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 21, 2011, 04:57:40 pm


This is what I use...

Hydraulic press
Small bearing splitter
Small socket (sometimes....depending of the distributor)
Deep socket
Drill press and 1/8 drill bit

Use the deep socket to press the gear on

Use the bearing slpitter to press the gear off

Use the small socket (if needed) to put at the other end of the distributor shaft (near the springs and weights).

Put the distributor in the drill press to drill the hole through the new gear






You are using a hydraulic press right?



I do not have a hydraulic press.

The only other time that I ever had to mess with a distributor gear is when I had to replace a factory roll pin that sheared (everyone said it was my high volume oil pump?) with a hardened one.

That time the gear came off and on with my hands.  It did have movement resistance but not so much that I could not put it back on without a hydraulic press.  That was years ago -- it has lasted for many miles until the 363W let a rod go.

This time the steel one that I bought is very tight.  Like so tight how is anyone supposed to line up the holes that are in the distributor's shaft and the pre-drilled holes in the gear?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 21, 2011, 05:02:15 pm
My experience is that the TFI distributors have a slip fit gear and don't need a press. Distributors intended for a carb'd engine need to be pressed on.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 21, 2011, 05:15:09 pm
My experience is that the TFI distributors have a slip fit gear and don't need a press. Distributors intended for a carb'd engine need to be pressed on.


My distributor dilemma had me stumped for a minute.

My friend's shop is a transmission shop.  I am assuming that he will have a hydraulic press or two.

I am feeling better already.

Thanks for your help, man.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 21, 2011, 06:09:27 pm
Try throwing the distributor and gear in the freezer for half hour or so.  Sometimes that's just enough.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on August 21, 2011, 06:16:04 pm
Try throwing the distributor and gear in the freezer for half hour or so.  Sometimes that's just enough.

wouldn't you want to freeze the distributor and boil the gear?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on August 21, 2011, 06:42:39 pm
Try throwing the distributor and gear in the freezer for half hour or so.  Sometimes that's just enough.

wouldn't you want to freeze the distributor and boil the gear?

 :idea


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 21, 2011, 07:04:05 pm
Try throwing the distributor and gear in the freezer for half hour or so.  Sometimes that's just enough.

wouldn't you want to freeze the distributor and boil the gear?
Yeah, maybe.  Definitely freeze the distributor.  Gear can be an experiment, cold or hot depending on what dimension moves the most.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on August 21, 2011, 07:24:49 pm
there is no way i would use that dizzy in this engine.
do your self a favour and get a MSD dizzy,box,coil.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on August 21, 2011, 07:27:15 pm
there is no way i would use that dizzy in this engine.
do your self a favour and get a MSD dizzy,box,coil.

I agree.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 21, 2011, 07:29:05 pm
there is no way i would use that dizzy in this engine.
do your self a favour and get a MSD dizzy,box,coil.

What makes the MSD better than the Pertronix in this application? And which MSD are you talking about? 7? 6?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on August 21, 2011, 07:34:22 pm
billet dizzy, digital 6 box,HVC coil.
you obviuosly havnt used a msd set up? the difference is night and day.
this is a pretty serious engine merc has here and i would think he wouldnt want to
compromise performance.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 21, 2011, 07:38:28 pm
billet dizzy, digital 6 box,HVC coil.
you obviuosly havnt used a msd set up? the difference is night and day.
this is a pretty serious engine merc has here and i would think he wouldnt want to
compromise performance.

I have a billet distributor, digital 7 and hvc coil.

The way I understand it, if the engine runs pump gas (fairly low cylinder pressure) and is NA and not reving past 7krpm, the MSD wont do much.

I could be wrong though.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on August 21, 2011, 07:44:20 pm
in my experiance it will start easier, idle a lot better and rev cleaner.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 21, 2011, 07:50:50 pm
billet dizzy, digital 6 box,HVC coil.
you obviuosly havnt used a msd set up? the difference is night and day.
this is a pretty serious engine merc has here and i would think he wouldnt want to
compromise performance.


I would like to but can't afford it right now.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on August 21, 2011, 08:10:42 pm
this is were you really start spending money,its all the little things.
you need to make sure your cooling system is up to scratch.
fuel pump and lines can supply enough fuel.
exhaust system isnt chocking it.
ignition system.
carby.
you need gauges to keep an eye on everything.
the list goes on.
not being a dick just giving you a heads up you dont stop spending when your long block is finished.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Nitro on August 21, 2011, 08:30:33 pm
Robert try heating the gear on the stove for 15 min.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on August 21, 2011, 08:39:40 pm
Robert try heating the gear on the stove for 15 min.

Heat will shrink it......If your gonna heat anything heat the distributor shaft.

Heat shrinks......Cold expands.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on August 21, 2011, 08:41:45 pm
Robert try heating the gear on the stove for 15 min.

Heat will shrink it......If your gonna heat anything heat the distributor shaft.

Heat shrinks......Cold expands.

I thought I read when doing gears you boil the bearing and freeze the pinion?  :wonder:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 21, 2011, 08:44:14 pm
this is were you really start spending money,its all the little things.
you need to make sure your cooling system is up to scratch.
fuel pump and lines can supply enough fuel.
exhaust system isnt chocking it.
ignition system.
carby.
you need gauges to keep an eye on everything.
the list goes on.
not being a dick just giving you a heads up you dont stop spending when your long block is finished.


I hear you.  You are so right.

My coolant system should be able to handle it.

I have 1/2" fuel lines from tank to carb.

I have 1-3/4" x 3" LT which is the biggest headers I can fit between my shock towers for now.

The 750 HP carb should be good enough for now until I can upgrade to a 850 HP.

I have rev limiter, tach, coolant temp, A/F and oil pressure gauges.

I appreciate all good advice from guys who have more experience than me.      :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 21, 2011, 08:44:57 pm
Robert try heating the gear on the stove for 15 min.

Heat will shrink it......If your gonna heat anything heat the distributor shaft.

Heat shrinks......Cold expands.


Doesn't heat expand stuff and cold shrinks stuff?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 21, 2011, 08:48:51 pm
This is the distributor that I have.


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PNX-D131800/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PNX-D131800/)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on August 21, 2011, 08:49:50 pm
Heat the gear, cool the shaft. Rich is thinking of water molecules freezing and expanding (I think  :hmmmm: ).

Quote from: DIN 7190
Shrink fits: In shrink fits, the outer member is heated or the inner part is cooled, or both, as required. The calculation of the temperatures to cool the inner part or to heat the outer part is dependent upon the chosen minimum fit. Additionally, a mating clearance for joining has to be kept to avoid adhesion.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 21, 2011, 08:53:08 pm
Putting my distributor in the freezer or putting some intense heat to it is seriously worries me thinking about it.

I like hearing your ideas but I would like to try a hydraulic press first.  If that doesn't work then I will have to try something else.

As if I don't have enough on my plate right now with trying to get the engine all happy so it will fire up and be safe (like having to re-enforce a frame engine-bay cross-member) -- my woman's car is acting stupid and will need some attention.      :bang


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 21, 2011, 08:57:41 pm
Your distributor will be fine in the freezer.  It get's below freezing here quite a bit in the winter.  It doesn't take out the distributor ;)

Yes, heat expands, cool shrinks.  Except water when it changes state to solid.

What Rich might be thinking/saying about the gear is, heat will expand the metal in ALL directions, this may effectively 'shrink' the size of the hole.  That's why I first suggested putting both in the freezer first to try.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on August 21, 2011, 09:01:10 pm
your mate at the trans shop will have a press, just press it off.
when you press the new gear on make sure you have the right measurement from the bottom
of the gear to the base of the dizzy housing.
dont use the same hole,turn the gear90* and drill a new hole,its that easy i did mine
with a coardless drill.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on August 21, 2011, 09:02:42 pm
Putting my distributor in the freezer or putting some intense heat to it is seriously worries me thinking about it.

Boil your gear in a solution of water and cooking oil, it gets hotter than that inside most engines.

Put the shaft (just the shaft) in a pot of ice water, it gets colder than that outside.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on August 22, 2011, 05:28:42 am
I have an MSD Distributor housing, cap and rotor. It would need a new pick up, it was pulled out of a turbo car that used a crank trigger. let me know.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on August 22, 2011, 06:55:31 am
thats a dam nice offer fordracing250  :clap


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 22, 2011, 09:38:01 am
I have an MSD Distributor housing, cap and rotor. It would need a new pick up, it was pulled out of a turbo car that used a crank trigger. let me know.


Thanks for that offer.  The good thing with the Pertronix unit is that it doesn't need a box to run.  One less thing to "break"/troubleshoot.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 22, 2011, 11:24:06 am
So drilling a second hole in the distributor's shaft 90* from the original hole (it would basically have to be in the same height up the shaft) doesn't weaken the shaft too much?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 22, 2011, 01:01:12 pm
So drilling a second hole in the distributor's shaft 90* from the original hole (it would basically have to be in the same height up the shaft) doesn't weaken the shaft too much?
Are you going with a regular pump or a high volume / pressure pump?  That's where your load is coming from.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 22, 2011, 01:12:52 pm
So drilling a second hole in the distributor's shaft 90* from the original hole (it would basically have to be in the same height up the shaft) doesn't weaken the shaft too much?
Are you going with a regular pump or a high volume / pressure pump?  That's where your load is coming from.


A regular oil pump this time.      :)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 22, 2011, 02:10:54 pm
So drilling a second hole in the distributor's shaft 90* from the original hole (it would basically have to be in the same height up the shaft) doesn't weaken the shaft too much?

It is commonly suggested that 2 holes at 90* from eachother is fine, but a third hole is too much and you need to start over with another shaft / another distributor.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: quick26 on August 22, 2011, 03:10:54 pm
where are the pics  ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 22, 2011, 03:22:20 pm
where are the pics  ;D


They are a comin'.  Honest.

Am having to deal with some complications.

The larger 7 quart oil pan wants to be in the same place as the crossmember.       :hmmmm:

That is getting worked out.      :347ho:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on August 25, 2011, 08:30:05 pm
Any updates??


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 25, 2011, 08:37:30 pm
The larger 7 quart oil pan wants to be in the same place as the crossmember.       :hmmmm:

That is getting worked out.   

What are you going to do about that?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 25, 2011, 09:31:36 pm
Going to notch the crossmember and re-enforce it in a spot that does not "block" anything else.

Joe (the transmission shop owner) also needs to help me with the steel gear that I managed to get on the distributor's shaft but not all the way up so I can put a hardened roll pin thru it.

I was told that next week it should be ready for me to tow back home.       :P


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 26, 2011, 09:00:38 am
robert did you use a early windsor block or roller version ?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 26, 2011, 09:51:26 am
robert did you use a early windsor block or roller version ?


Roller version.

F4TE block.

I have my rev limiter set at 6500rpm -- this block N/A with the power level it has and the care it was shown when machined should run for a long, long time.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 302ute on August 27, 2011, 05:03:25 am
Wher are the pics...........???????? :waiting:  Just the engine will do or do we have to wait for the :xmastree: :burnout photos.

Robert , you gotta go to the track. It would be a shame to have your running gear and not run it at the track.  :Gluck:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 27, 2011, 11:26:52 am
I should get the Merc back this coming up week before the holiday weekend.      :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 27, 2011, 03:46:10 pm
I am having a "kick plate" installed under/around the oil pan between the shock towers.

This will prevent any contact with objects under my car and it will also re-enforce my Merc's frame to be able to handle the added power that I will be subjecting it to.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: kwkenf on August 27, 2011, 04:01:52 pm
Since there are no pics....It didn't happen..... :)  j/k
cannot wait to see them


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2011, 03:28:47 pm
Since there are no pics....It didn't happen..... :)  j/k
cannot wait to see them


The kick-plate might have to wait until I have the car running.  I have to talk with him about payment details.  I am almost broke right now.

Also -- I need to pay some attention to my wife's car.  It needs some work on it's front-end.

I am wondering if it would be a good idea (the kick plate/shock towers underneath support) is a good and practical idea or would it just be a waste of time/money and make it tougher for me to drive over the millions of fucking speed bumps that my trailer park has?

I'm hoping that Woody will read this and give me his idea about that!      :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2011, 03:31:43 pm
Finally!

My car is ready for me to tow it home today.

I will finish my shift at work @ 3:30 this afternoon.

A co-worker will be giving me a ride to his shop.  Should arrive around 4:00.


Wow am I happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!       :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on August 30, 2011, 03:37:49 pm
Awesome!  Can't wait to see/hear the new combo alive and kicking!

 :ban :ban :ban


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2011, 03:53:39 pm
Awesome!  Can't wait to see/hear the new combo alive and kicking!

 :ban :ban :ban


Thanks, man.  That makes two of us!

I will have to see how thick this kick-plate he is talking about is.

I will also have to slowly drive over the speed bumps where I live and see just how much clearance I have with just the deeper 7 quart oil pan with me looking carefully.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 302ute on August 30, 2011, 05:13:32 pm
Still no pictures??? :waiting:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2011, 05:49:38 pm
Still no pictures??? :waiting:


Right now it's only 2:49pm.      :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Nitro on August 30, 2011, 06:09:33 pm
 :clap
Just a few more sleepless nights left. Now its because you'll be wrenching on your ride. :yes:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2011, 06:14:48 pm
:clap
Just a few more sleepless nights left. Now its because you'll be wrenching on your ride. :yes:


Yep.      :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on August 30, 2011, 07:01:09 pm
good for you merc :clap
most big oil pans go wider not deeper :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on August 30, 2011, 07:11:05 pm
Look forward to hearing the details Robert.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: woody on August 30, 2011, 07:13:07 pm
good for you merc :clap
most big oil pans go wider not deeper :dunno
that would be incorrect, the majority go deeper as they have always done. Before oil pan companies use there own stampings all they did was cut the stock sumps off and make the new sump deeper.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on August 30, 2011, 07:56:38 pm
must be only australian made pans then, mine sits level with cross member.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on August 30, 2011, 08:00:27 pm
must be only australian made pans then, mine sits level with cross member.

I'm almost 100% positive that pan is a fair bit deeper than stock.  Larger capacity pans are generally deeper and wider in my experience.  My 7 quart pan is a bunch deeper than the old stock pan.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on August 30, 2011, 08:08:29 pm
Nate, mine is slightly deeper but doesnt sit bellow the cross member plus mine is a
drag comp pan.the super street pans are not deeper.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 30, 2011, 08:16:09 pm
Im pretty much positive the milodon pan is deeper


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on August 30, 2011, 08:33:11 pm
Quote from: jayh
Im pretty much positive the milodon pan is deeper

Canton's 7 quart pans can be stock height and don't require modding the tubular crossmember in older cars.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n229/dennis_8047/Canton%20Oil%20Pan/Cantonvsstock3.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n229/dennis_8047/Canton%20Oil%20Pan/Cantondipstickplug.jpg)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on August 30, 2011, 08:59:38 pm
yep, i just measured one and they are the same.
looking on woodys site it seems a lot of the pans he uses are straight sides
and very deep.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2011, 09:17:11 pm
I took a bunch of pics.  I am wrenching on it right now but tonight I will post the pics here.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 30, 2011, 09:18:35 pm
the milodon fits a 65 without any mods  :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2011, 09:19:06 pm
Jim and others who have deep oil pans (my new one is a couple of inches lower to the ground) --> Do you guys run them as is or is it necessary to fab up a bottom and front type of safety plate ("kick plate") so you don't hit something while driving and punch an engine killing hole in the pan?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on August 30, 2011, 09:28:30 pm
I would just weld a second (thicker) plate to the parts of the pan that are exposed. It wouldnt need to be fully welded.  Just a series of tacks or a few 1" welds around it. 


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: superduty69 on August 30, 2011, 09:48:28 pm
Here is a pic of a Canton 7 qt. pan on my car. I think you will be fine.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2011, 11:26:17 pm
Here is a pic of a Canton 7 qt. pan on my car. I think you will be fine.


Mine hangs a good bit lower than yours does.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: AaronS on August 30, 2011, 11:36:00 pm



Mine hangs a good bit lower than yours does.
[/quote]

 :laugh

Sorry, couldn't help it.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 30, 2011, 11:46:29 pm
 :burnout


I have 10 pics total right now -- I have to load them one at a time while "modifying" this post.  (I tried all 10 at once earlier and it was not working for me?!?!)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: superduty69 on August 30, 2011, 11:54:39 pm
Here is a pic of a Canton 7 qt. pan on my car. I think you will be fine.


Mine hangs a good bit lower than yours does.

Even so.... :dunno

If you think it will be an issue, maybe you could come up with something. I think the odds of hitting the pan would be slim. Unless your streets are way worse than around here.

Even speedbumps, unless you hit them at an unrealistic high speed, should clear.

It does'nt seem that it could be much lower, the front ends in these two cars are very similar.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 31, 2011, 12:14:52 am
Here is a pic of a Canton 7 qt. pan on my car. I think you will be fine.


Mine hangs a good bit lower than yours does.

Even so.... :dunno

If you think it will be an issue, maybe you could come up with something. I think the odds of hitting the pan would be slim. Unless your streets are way worse than around here.

Even speedbumps, unless you hit them at an unrealistic high speed, should clear.

It does'nt seem that it could be much lower, the front ends in these two cars are very similar.


OK.

Thanks for your help.  I appreciate it my friend.

Maybe I was wrong and that both of our pans hang at about the same height from the ground.

I think that mine will be OK, too.


The hardest part so far is getting the headers back on the new heads.

The shock towers make things a royal pain in the ass!  I had to jack the passenger side up Ungodly high to get that side's header in position from under the car going upwards!      :bang


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 31, 2011, 12:23:59 am
God damned it all.

Had to hear my woman read me the riot act about AAA my car insurer refusing to insure my Merc if they find out how much power I just put under the hood.  Fuck!!!!!!

She got all fucking paranoid because I called AAA to tow my Merc from the trans shop to my house.  The douchebag driver (a punk ass kid) refused to tow my ride because he said that it is only for a broken down car.  He briefly saw under the hood because he arrived quicker than I thought and Joe was talking with me about a few engine-related things.  I told the driver that I requested a tow from the trans shop to my house and that the car was not running currently.  That is the truth.

He said that he would tow me 7 miles instead for $125.  I told him that was an outrageous amount.  He tried to say sorry and shake my hand and I just told him to take a hike without any handshake.  For sure.   My friend Joe turned me onto a friend of his that charged me $61.
So my wife thinks that he will tell AAA.  I told her that some guys have 1000hp under their hood in their modified Mustangs.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: superduty69 on August 31, 2011, 12:27:04 am
Here is a pic of a Canton 7 qt. pan on my car. I think you will be fine.


Mine hangs a good bit lower than yours does.

Even so.... :dunno

If you think it will be an issue, maybe you could come up with something. I think the odds of hitting the pan would be slim. Unless your streets are way worse than around here.

Even speedbumps, unless you hit them at an unrealistic high speed, should clear.

It does'nt seem that it could be much lower, the front ends in these two cars are very similar.


OK.

Thanks for your help.  I appreciate it my friend.

Maybe I was wrong and that both of our pans hang at about the same height from the ground.

I think that mine will be OK, too.


The hardest part so far is getting the headers back on the new heads.

The shock towers make things a royal pain in the ass!  I had to jack the passenger side up Ungodly high to get that side's header in position from under the car going upwards!      :bang

I would be more worried about dragging the headers than the pan. I have done that.

Yes, that is how i do my headers also, jack one side up, then the other. Pain in the ass is an understatement!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 31, 2011, 02:15:40 am
God damned it all.

Had to hear my woman read me the riot act about AAA my car insurer refusing to insure my Merc if they find out how much power I just put under the hood.  Fuck!!!!!!

I have been refused insurance before for having too much power.

Some companies like to pay visits to vehicles that are more likely to be modified than others.

If you drive a 2010 Toyota you can bet you wont get a visit.

If you drive a 1969 Chevelle chances are higher.

Thats my experience.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 31, 2011, 09:35:43 am
God damned it all.

Had to hear my woman read me the riot act about AAA my car insurer refusing to insure my Merc if they find out how much power I just put under the hood.  Fuck!!!!!!

I have been refused insurance before for having too much power.


What insurance company?



Some companies like to pay visits to vehicles that are more likely to be modified than others.

If you drive a 2010 Toyota you can bet you wont get a visit.

If you drive a 1969 Chevelle chances are higher.


Do you mean raise your rates?

I have had one ticket in all the years that I've owned my Merc.

No accidents ever.

I am 42 years old.

So my ride is modified for a bit more power.  Why would they refuse to insure me?

What do Nate (who has a nice older Mustang that has balls) or others who have modified rides that drive them on the street do?

Everything has to be hush-hush with your insurer?  Like only tell them that it is a crappy old car and barely makes it to the gas station?     :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on August 31, 2011, 09:46:09 am
My Torino is insured by Intact. It is a classic car insurance. The rates are based on the cars appraised value. The Torino cost me 96 bucks a year full coverage with a replacement value of $7500. I believe it goes up 10 dollars for every $1000 of replacement value.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 31, 2011, 09:53:46 am
My Torino is insured by Intact. It is a classic car insurance. The rates are based on the cars appraised value. The Torino cost me 96 bucks a year full coverage with a replacement value of $7500. I believe it goes up 10 dollars for every $1000 of replacement value.


Was "96 bucks a year" a typo?  Like you meant $96 a month?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on August 31, 2011, 10:03:55 am
My Torino is insured by Intact. It is a classic car insurance. The rates are based on the cars appraised value. The Torino cost me 96 bucks a year full coverage with a replacement value of $7500. I believe it goes up 10 dollars for every $1000 of replacement value.

I insure mine through http://www.americancollectors.com/  They set your premium based on agreed value, but they also impose an annual limit on miles driven.

I pay $188/yr for $8000 agreed value, 5000 miles/yr
  Bodily Injury+Property Damage No Limit on Lawsuit ($100,000)
  PIP ($250,000) [$250 ded]
  Uninsured/Underinsures motorist ($100,000)
  Comprehensive/collision [$750 ded]

Pretty reasonable for NJ (premiums are sky-high here), but may not be an option for Robert, as his Merc will be his DD (right?).


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 31, 2011, 10:04:50 am
My Torino is insured by Intact. It is a classic car insurance. The rates are based on the cars appraised value. The Torino cost me 96 bucks a year full coverage with a replacement value of $7500. I believe it goes up 10 dollars for every $1000 of replacement value.

I insure mine through http://www.americancollectors.com/  They set your premium based on agreed value, but they also impose an annual limit on miles driven.

I pay $188/yr for $8000 agreed value, 5000 miles/yr
  Bodily Injury+Property Damage No Limit on Lawsuit ($100,000)
  PIP ($250,000) [$250 ded]
  Uninsured/Underinsures motorist ($100,000)
  Comprehensive/collision [$750 ded]

Pretty reasonable for NJ (premiums are sky-high here), but may not be an option for Robert, as his Merc will be his DD (right?).



I only drive 4500 miles per year.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 31, 2011, 10:47:38 am
I might have to look into those hotrod insurance companies that you guys have told me about.      :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 31, 2011, 10:52:37 am
As you all can see in the pics that new and shiny engine is the most nice looking thing in my Merc.

The old 363W engine -- after it started leaking fluids I admit that I got lazy and let it cake up some grime.

This new engine will get the Simple Green treatment.


My favorite looking part on the 408W is for sure those excellent and solid looking rocker arms Comp Gold.  They are way better looking (in appearance and they look like they are really tough!) than my old engine's Harland Sharp rockers.

All of those good machined parts are hidden from my view inside the short block that Woody did for me.  I know that they are VERY important for this engine's dependability and ease to rev up nice and quickly . . .      :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on August 31, 2011, 10:57:06 am
Time for some clear valvecovers  ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on August 31, 2011, 10:58:44 am
I believe with my insurance I get 5000km a year. But I can tell you in 10 years they have never checked.

I had to get an appraisal done before I got insurance. They usually have a 3rd party do it. They will appraise the car and then you can throw in all you receipts for you nice shinny new engine. So if you have 15g's into the car you can insure it for that. There was never any questions about horsepower rating or track racing. But they did ask me for other vehicles that I have insured. They might frown if the Merc is your only car if you know what I mean. And no typo. $96 cdn a year full coverage.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on August 31, 2011, 11:04:31 am
Looking good.  Bag the engine and clean up the engine bay though...

And may I suggest getting some braided wire loom for those wires?  Its cheap, and really helps with appearances!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on August 31, 2011, 11:13:35 am
I know it is minimal but I use black hockey tape on all of the electric split looms and what not. It holds better than regular black electrical tape and has a more factory appearence as I find the glossy black electrical tape stick out like a sore thumb.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 31, 2011, 11:34:49 am
My Torino is insured by Intact. It is a classic car insurance. The rates are based on the cars appraised value. The Torino cost me 96 bucks a year full coverage with a replacement value of $7500. I believe it goes up 10 dollars for every $1000 of replacement value.

I insure mine through http://www.americancollectors.com/  They set your premium based on agreed value, but they also impose an annual limit on miles driven.

I pay $188/yr for $8000 agreed value, 5000 miles/yr
  Bodily Injury+Property Damage No Limit on Lawsuit ($100,000)
  PIP ($250,000) [$250 ded]
  Uninsured/Underinsures motorist ($100,000)
  Comprehensive/collision [$750 ded]

Pretty reasonable for NJ (premiums are sky-high here), but may not be an option for Robert, as his Merc will be his DD (right?).



I only drive 4500 miles per year.
I only pay about 88 bucks a year for my Mach I even though it hasn't seen the road in over 10 years.
Those policies aren't meant for DD's.  There's usually a general clause that says the car is to be used only for show events and occasional 'maintenance' type of drives.  Which, may be fine, until you get into an accident.  Then I'm sure they'd start to dig in deeper to the car's usage.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 31, 2011, 12:12:01 pm
Good point.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 31, 2011, 01:27:10 pm
Good point.
But, maybe good to get that 'second' car to justify this one... , besides the wife's DD.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 31, 2011, 01:38:17 pm
Good point.
But, maybe good to get that 'second' car to justify this one... , besides the wife's DD.
But on second thought, then you'd need insurance on the second car, aaargh... you just can't beat'em.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 31, 2011, 02:15:50 pm
69 Merc

What insurance company?

---------American Family. Others are probably the same way, can't say for sure though.

Do you mean raise your rates?

--------They denied the standard daily driver liability/full coverage and said I needed some kind of collector car insurance, specialty vehicle insurance or something along those lines. I didn't look into it too much so I can't provide much info, but there are limitations to some of those ie. limited miles driven per year, can't be used as a daily grocery getter, can't be used for back and forth to and from work etc. I ended up going elsewhere.

So my ride is modified for a bit more power.  Why would they refuse to insure me?

-----------You become more of a risk. They may refuse you, they may require a special kind of insurance. The way I understand it based on how it was explained to me, technically, the liability and full coverage insurance plans that provide rates based on the vehicle and the drivers history/age/etc. are intended for stock cars. So technically your does not qualify.

Everything has to be hush-hush with your insurer?  Like only tell them that it is a crappy old car and barely makes it to the gas station?    

--------------Thats what I did after American Family refused me. So far so good. Went with progressive


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 31, 2011, 02:48:59 pm
69 Merc

What insurance company?

---------American Family. Others are probably the same way, can't say for sure though.

Do you mean raise your rates?

--------They denied the standard daily driver liability/full coverage and said I needed some kind of collector car insurance, specialty vehicle insurance or something along those lines. I didn't look into it too much so I can't provide much info, but there are limitations to some of those ie. limited miles driven per year, can't be used as a daily grocery getter, can't be used for back and forth to and from work etc. I ended up going elsewhere.

So my ride is modified for a bit more power.  Why would they refuse to insure me?

-----------You become more of a risk. They may refuse you, they may require a special kind of insurance. The way I understand it based on how it was explained to me, technically, the liability and full coverage insurance plans that provide rates based on the vehicle and the drivers history/age/etc. are intended for stock cars. So technically your does not qualify.

Everything has to be hush-hush with your insurer?  Like only tell them that it is a crappy old car and barely makes it to the gas station?    

--------------Thats what I did after American Family refused me. So far so good. Went with progressive


OK thanks for your help.  (And everyone else here, too!)

How does Progressive's rates compare to American Family before they refused you?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on August 31, 2011, 02:53:59 pm
I always wondered if you put a v8 in a 4cyl if you were obligated to tell them, and how they would insure it.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on August 31, 2011, 03:22:21 pm
I can tell you that both GEICO and Liberty Mutual wanted over $800/yr for my '67 with just basic liability coverage and defined as "pleasure use only," with no mileage restrictions.

This was based off the VIN, which shows it as a 200cid I6.  Then again, like I said before, this *is* NJ, FWIW.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on August 31, 2011, 03:24:14 pm
I always wondered if you put a v8 in a 4cyl if you were obligated to tell them, and how they would insure it.

I'd love to find out!! (http://www.kugelkomponents.com/focus/focusv8.php)  ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 31, 2011, 03:47:01 pm
I can tell you that both GEICO and Liberty Mutual wanted over $800/yr for my '67 with just basic liability coverage and defined as "pleasure use only," with no mileage restrictions.

This was based off the VIN, which shows it as a 200cid I6.  Then again, like I said before, this *is* NJ, FWIW.


How did they found out that you "upgraded" your engine bay?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on August 31, 2011, 03:52:28 pm
I can tell you that both GEICO and Liberty Mutual wanted over $800/yr for my '67 with just basic liability coverage and defined as "pleasure use only," with no mileage restrictions.

This was based off the VIN, which shows it as a 200cid I6.  Then again, like I said before, this *is* NJ, FWIW.


How did they found out that you "upgraded" your engine bay?

Never got that far.  When they wanted $800/yr for that basic coverage with an I6, I went to American Collectors and gave them all the details.  I'm not paying $800/yr to drive the car as little as I do.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on August 31, 2011, 04:14:29 pm
How does Progressive's rates compare to American Family before they refused you?

Not much difference.

Progressive was slightly cheaper though.

About $250 every 6 months with progressive. American Family quoted me just under $300 every 6 months. Daily driver, liability only with a little extra coverage beyone state minimum.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on August 31, 2011, 05:08:08 pm
I always wondered if you put a v8 in a 4cyl if you were obligated to tell them, and how they would insure it.

Mine is insured as a 4 cyl, liability only. If I wreck my car, its cheaper to find another one and salvage as much as I can. My car added a whole $25 a year to my existing policy. Being liability, they have no reason to even look at my car.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 31, 2011, 05:43:29 pm
I always wondered if you put a v8 in a 4cyl if you were obligated to tell them, and how they would insure it.

Mine is insured as a 4 cyl, liability only. If I wreck my car, its cheaper to find another one and salvage as much as I can. My car added a whole $25 a year to my existing policy. Being liability, they have no reason to even look at my car.


So you are saying that since I have full coverage they might enjoy learning about the new 408ci while my wallet would not like them learning that?

(The VIN is a 250hp 351W listed)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 8bahead on August 31, 2011, 05:56:05 pm
When I put my 1953 F-100 on the street,I couldn't get anyone to insure it, full coverage anyway, but state farm.   They were real nice about it, they came out to my house to look at the truck and take pics. The woman that came out to take pics was kinda anal asked me why it was outside and not in my garage. I had just washed it, she took pics under the hood, inside the cab.  we agreed on a replacement value it was 7k back in 2003, I've since raised it to 10k, I have it insured with Safeco now, I believe they are part of Progressive, I pay $860.00 for 10 months, then I get two months free. Its full coverage with the 10k replacement its like a 500 ded. Safeco never came to my house to look at anything.  Good Luck hope things work out for ya.  Bob.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 31, 2011, 06:05:31 pm
When I put my 1953 F-100 on the street,I couldn't get anyone to insure it, full coverage anyway, but state farm.   They were real nice about it, they came out to my house to look at the truck and take pics. The woman that came out to take pics was kinda anal asked me why it was outside and not in my garage. I had just washed it, she took pics under the hood, inside the cab.  we agreed on a replacement value it was 7k back in 2003, I've since raised it to 10k, I have it insured with Safeco now, I believe they are part of Progressive, I pay $860.00 for 10 months, then I get two months free. Its full coverage with the 10k replacement its like a 500 ded. Safeco never came to my house to look at anything.  Good Luck hope things work out for ya.  Bob.


What is under your F-100's hood?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on August 31, 2011, 07:08:07 pm
dont sweat the AAA thing, the kid is most likely just covering his own ass so the company doesnt get a bounced claim when they bill AAA.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 8bahead on August 31, 2011, 07:36:58 pm
When I put my 1953 F-100 on the street,I couldn't get anyone to insure it, full coverage anyway, but state farm.   They were real nice about it, they came out to my house to look at the truck and take pics. The woman that came out to take pics was kinda anal asked me why it was outside and not in my garage. I had just washed it, she took pics under the hood, inside the cab.  we agreed on a replacement value it was 7k back in 2003, I've since raised it to 10k, I have it insured with Safeco now, I believe they are part of Progressive, I pay $860.00 for 10 months, then I get two months free. Its full coverage with the 10k replacement its like a 500 ded. Safeco never came to my house to look at anything.  Good Luck hope things work out for ya.  Bob.

cleverly disguised 347.
What is under your F-100's hood?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fast88 on August 31, 2011, 07:52:48 pm
You guys are a bunch of Nancys.....lol

All insurance companies care about is getting their money......long as they get their money, youll get an insurance card every 6 months. Dont worry about it....lol

Engine looks great Robert!!! Take your time and finish it up right.

......One word for you though...."De-greaser".....Learn it, live it, love it. ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on August 31, 2011, 08:00:14 pm
I find Simple Green to work great.   I first time may take a repeat or two.  Then I usually give a spray each spring after the snow's done.  It's like having a new engine compartment.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on August 31, 2011, 08:15:31 pm
looks great robert


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on August 31, 2011, 08:42:21 pm
Simple Green a and power/pressure washer can work wonders.  Just don't let the Simple Green Dry on your nice body paint.  It could leave a stain.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 31, 2011, 10:07:28 pm
dont sweat the AAA thing, the kid is most likely just covering his own ass so the company doesnt get a bounced claim when they bill AAA.


Yet the AAA operator knew that I was towing my non-working Merc from the trans shop to my home address because I straight-up told her the deal.  (I didn't tell her that the engine was in pieces.)

The tow driver kid was the only who knew that the engine didn't have an alternator, coolant hoses, carb, fuel and water pumps, etc.

It was his sole call.  No one else knew about it -- nor would anyone else have known about it.  Yet he in his next breath offered to tow me "off of the books" for $125 the friggin' 7 miles to my house.

Know what I mean?      :chair


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 31, 2011, 10:11:11 pm
You guys are a bunch of Nancys.....lol

All insurance companies care about is getting their money......long as they get their money, youll get an insurance card every 6 months. Dont worry about it....lol

Engine looks great Robert!!! Take your time and finish it up right.

......One word for you though...."De-greaser".....Learn it, live it, love it. ;D


I will keep this 408W much cleaner than the old 363W I promise!

I am taking some vacation time so that I will get the next 5 days starting tomorrow off and it will be spent taking my time finishing up my Merc the right way.

      :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on August 31, 2011, 10:39:18 pm
AAA towed me home from Irwindale one time.  I had a severe valve knock and I didn't bring my flashlight with all my tools. :duh  Drove the Mustang way out to the track and forgot the most important tool for once the sun goes down. :orglaugh  Didn't want to hurt anything so I called AAA.  They came and towed me home.  Apparently I get one 100 mile tow a year with the coverage I paid for.

Tow truck driver said he had been to Irwindale before.  When I asked how often he said not as much as he gets called out to the desert to pull junk out of messes the driver should have never got themselves into. :orglaugh  Told him what I normally run and never even thought about them having a problem with me.

Years ago I was taking my parents motor home up to the Eastern Sierras where my family has gone since I can remember.  My wife was with me (girlfriend at the time) and a tire on the dual axle blew out.  Pulled over and called AAA.  They let me upgrade over the phone to recreational vehicle coverage right on the spot and had a call out to a tow truck.  We were in the middle of nowhere, in the desert, and hadn't even reached Lone Pine yet.  AAA is OK in my book and I don't think you have a darn thing to worry about.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on August 31, 2011, 10:49:43 pm
Nice!      :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 01, 2011, 08:55:40 pm
Got both headers on the heads.  (A total PITA!)      :bang

Got the starter back on the block.

Got the plugs in.

Fastened the belt pulley to the balancer.

So far so good.      :party

Started tackling my fuel system but decided that I will relax some late this evening and be ready to finish it up tomorrow.  (I hope!)

I am planning on it's first fire-up this weekend either Saturday (I hope!) or Sunday.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on September 02, 2011, 01:03:10 am
Don't forget, put oil in it!   :Gluck:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 02, 2011, 02:30:48 am
Got both headers on the heads.  (A total PITA!)      :bang

Got the starter back on the block.

Got the plugs in.

Fastened the belt pulley to the balancer.

So far so good.      :party

Started tackling my fuel system but decided that I will relax some late this evening and be ready to finish it up tomorrow.  (I hope!)

I am planning on it's first fire-up this weekend either Saturday (I hope!) or Sunday.

You are faster than me.

It would take me a little while longer to do something like this.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 02, 2011, 03:25:05 am
Dont sweat AAA. They towed my car from simi valley to cerritos with no engine or trans, with the sissy sticks and chute. Who was it that showed up? Hadley Tow, or Commercial tow? the driver was just being lazy in reality. its their discretion to tow it or not.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 02, 2011, 10:44:27 pm
Don't forget, put oil in it!   :Gluck:


And coolant!      :naughty:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 02, 2011, 10:51:43 pm
Got both headers on the heads.  (A total PITA!)      :bang

Got the starter back on the block.

Got the plugs in.

Fastened the belt pulley to the balancer.

So far so good.      :party

Started tackling my fuel system but decided that I will relax some late this evening and be ready to finish it up tomorrow.  (I hope!)

I am planning on it's first fire-up this weekend either Saturday (I hope!) or Sunday.

You are faster than me.

It would take me a little while longer to do something like this.


I want this Merc running BAD!

Today I put on the dual exhausts, oil tube and a dipstick that is too short (the new one was supposed to arrive today but it looks like it will be next week), purged my fuel line of the old fuel, starting re-doing the fuel lines and ran into a snag (I have the billet Holley mechanical 170gph fuel pump installed in the timing cover today and forgot which is the inlet and which one is the outlet! -- fuckers can't label anything?!?!), water pump, plumbed in my coolant temp sensor into the Super Vic, the alternator bracketry, A/F sensor in the exhaust, checked to see if my distributor seats fine into the block and doesn't have a space problem with the Super Vic (no problem!!!).

If I have another good solid day like today then I am hoping to fire it up tomorrow!      ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 02, 2011, 10:53:26 pm
Dont sweat AAA. They towed my car from simi valley to cerritos with no engine or trans, with the sissy sticks and chute. Who was it that showed up? Hadley Tow, or Commercial tow? the driver was just being lazy in reality. its their discretion to tow it or not.


B & C Tow or something like that.

Yeah -- that driver was just being a jerk.  Karma will nail him one day.      :wonder:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 02, 2011, 11:01:39 pm
I have a fuel pump question -->

I have this Holley billet mechanical 170gph fuel pump shown below.

Does anyone know which is the inlet and which one is the outlet?  (One is closer to the top of the pump and the other one is closer to the base of the pump)      :thanx:


(I have looked all over the Net -- Summit, Jeg's, Holley website, etc for the info and couldn't find anything)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on September 02, 2011, 11:12:47 pm
Did you verify there is a fuel pump eccentric on the cam spocket?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 03, 2011, 12:11:47 am
I want this Merc running BAD!

Today I put on the dual exhausts, oil tube and a dipstick that is too short (the new one was supposed to arrive today but it looks like it will be next week), purged my fuel line of the old fuel, starting re-doing the fuel lines and ran into a snag (I have the billet Holley mechanical 170gph fuel pump installed in the timing cover today and forgot which is the inlet and which one is the outlet! -- fuckers can't label anything?!?!), water pump, plumbed in my coolant temp sensor into the Super Vic, the alternator bracketry, A/F sensor in the exhaust, checked to see if my distributor seats fine into the block and doesn't have a space problem with the Super Vic (no problem!!!).

If I have another good solid day like today then I am hoping to fire it up tomorrow!      ;D

Do you find that you are a perfectionist about things?

Torquing everything with a torque wrench to spec, torquing everything in the proper sequence, proper thread dressing on every fastener etc.??

Being a little OCD about certain things, I take a lot of time...

Did you spin the oil pump with a drill and oil pump drive "bit" to verify oil pressure before putting everything together?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 03, 2011, 12:16:54 am
double post


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 03, 2011, 12:32:06 am
Does anyone know which is the inlet and which one is the outlet?  (One is closer to the top of the pump and the other one is closer to the base of the pump)

I don't have that exact part number, mine has less gpm, but....

On mine, the lower fitting is the inlet and the upper fitting is the outlet.

Question for you - Was this the pump on your 363? Did you ever have problems with vapor lock? If so, how did you minimize problems?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: BuckeyeDemon on September 03, 2011, 06:55:16 am
I have a fuel pump question -->

I have this Holley billet mechanical 170gph fuel pump shown below.

Does anyone know which is the inlet and which one is the outlet?  (One is closer to the top of the pump and the other one is closer to the base of the pump)      :thanx:


(I have looked all over the Net -- Summit, Jeg's, Holley website, etc for the info and couldn't find anything)

it looks similar to my carter.  the bottom on mine is the inlet.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: cheese_05_70 on September 03, 2011, 08:20:47 am
I found a picture of one installed in a google search and the top port on the pump was plumbed to the carb.

Hope to hear the excitement and the beast roar. I have been following your thread since I have joined and even more so since the new motor.

good luck  :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 10:43:36 am
Did you verify there is a fuel pump eccentric on the cam spocket?


Yes.

I have not connected any hoses to the fuel pump, yet.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 10:44:54 am
I want this Merc running BAD!

Today I put on the dual exhausts, oil tube and a dipstick that is too short (the new one was supposed to arrive today but it looks like it will be next week), purged my fuel line of the old fuel, starting re-doing the fuel lines and ran into a snag (I have the billet Holley mechanical 170gph fuel pump installed in the timing cover today and forgot which is the inlet and which one is the outlet! -- fuckers can't label anything?!?!), water pump, plumbed in my coolant temp sensor into the Super Vic, the alternator bracketry, A/F sensor in the exhaust, checked to see if my distributor seats fine into the block and doesn't have a space problem with the Super Vic (no problem!!!).

If I have another good solid day like today then I am hoping to fire it up tomorrow!      ;D

Do you find that you are a perfectionist about things?

Torquing everything with a torque wrench to spec, torquing everything in the proper sequence, proper thread dressing on every fastener etc.??

Being a little OCD about certain things, I take a lot of time...

Did you spin the oil pump with a drill and oil pump drive "bit" to verify oil pressure before putting everything together?



Yes.  I torque every bolt that goes into the block/timing cover/etc to spec.  I have broken too many bolt heads off in the past to do it any other way.

This morning I will spin the oil pump.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 10:47:08 am
Does anyone know which is the inlet and which one is the outlet?  (One is closer to the top of the pump and the other one is closer to the base of the pump)

I don't have that exact part number, mine has less gpm, but....

On mine, the lower fitting is the inlet and the upper fitting is the outlet.

Question for you - Was this the pump on your 363? Did you ever have problems with vapor lock? If so, how did you minimize problems?


This pump was on my 363W.  It was overkill.  It should be perfect for this 408W.

I had no problems with it in the past.  I have learned to keep fuel lines/hoses away from hot parts of the engine.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 10:50:58 am

On mine, the lower fitting is the inlet and the upper fitting is the outlet.



it looks similar to my carter.  the bottom on mine is the inlet.


Thanks, guys.      :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 03, 2011, 11:02:54 am
I think its time to upgrade the fuel system


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on September 03, 2011, 12:18:47 pm

Yes.  I torque every bolt that goes into the block/timing cover/etc to spec.  I have broken too many bolt heads off in the past to do it any other way.


 :thumb:  That's why they give torque values in the manuals.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 01:24:47 pm
I think its time to upgrade the fuel system


Why?  This system should have no problem feeding the 408W to 6500rpm.      :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: BuckeyeDemon on September 03, 2011, 02:08:50 pm
I think its time to upgrade the fuel system


Why?  This system should have no problem feeding the 408W to 6500rpm.      :dunno

maybe they want you to run a return line instead of a dead head?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 03, 2011, 04:44:13 pm
robert have up graded fuel line size and tank sump from stock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 09:28:46 pm
robert have up graded fuel line size and tank sump from stock


It's a 1/2" from tank to fuel pump to carb fuel bowls.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 09:30:31 pm
It has 60psi of oil pressure with my drill motor (which that almost killed the drill motor I think because at the end it started smoking some!

Oil comes out of all rocker arms.

With a couple of minutes of 60psi I found no oil leaks anywhere!

Good God -- this engine sure has some compression -- it is not easy at all turning it over with the spark plugs in!     (Nice!)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 03, 2011, 09:36:56 pm
It has 60psi of oil pressure with my drill motor (which that almost killed the drill motor I think because at the end it started smoking some!

Oil comes out of all rocker arms.

With a couple of minutes of 60psi I found no oil leaks anywhere!

Good God -- this engine sure has some compression -- it is not easy at all turning it over with the spark plugs in!     (Nice!)

Did you do a cranking compresion test before you put the plugs in?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 10:06:49 pm
It has 60psi of oil pressure with my drill motor (which that almost killed the drill motor I think because at the end it started smoking some!

Oil comes out of all rocker arms.

With a couple of minutes of 60psi I found no oil leaks anywhere!

Good God -- this engine sure has some compression -- it is not easy at all turning it over with the spark plugs in!     (Nice!)

Did you do a cranking compresion test before you put the plugs in?


No.

I can tell you that it has a lot more static compression than my old 363W.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 10:16:23 pm
Well I hit a snag.  Dammit!

This heat and humidity is trying to kill me.


Anyways -- everything was going so good.

Here is the problem.  And since before when I was spinning 60psi for a couple of minutes through the entire engine AND what I see dripping down onto the ground has no oil in it at all then I really and truly think that this is not Jim's fault.  I am just posting this to get some help with ideas.      :thanx:

Engine coolant (with no oil it it whatsoever!) is dripping to the ground.  Like a drop every second.  It appears from what I could see that it is coming out of the seal that is close to the block where the crank "snout" or whatever it is called is going right into the balancer.  But I don't think that that can be because if it was leaking from there then there would be motor oil with it and there isn't AND I remember that when I spun the oil pump with my drill with no coolant in the engine no oil leaked from anywhere!

I wanted to check on the level that was left in the radiator (earlier I had totally filled it up because I was getting ready to fire it up!).  I have not ran the engine, yet -- not until I fix this coolant leak.  So when I removed the radiator cap the drop of coolant every second turned into a lot of coolant dripping rather quickly.      :bang

(I do remember that I haven't changed a coolant pump in awhile)

I have an Edelbrock one that has two allen head bolts that this time I removed them, then put the gasket on and then re-tightened those bolts over the gasket?  Maybe that was a mistake or maybe this water pump is shot?  IDK?

Need a new coolant pump?  How can I check it?  What would you guys do if you were in my shoes?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 03, 2011, 10:22:48 pm
Coolant system pressure tester.

Pump it up within safe limits to get a better idea of where it is leaking from.

That would be my first step.

I would do this even in the event that there is no obvious leaks just to minimize the chance of a leak appearing during the first start up while trying to dial everything else in. An initial start up, trying to keep the thing running and things dialed in only to see a coolant leak is no fun. Been there before.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 03, 2011, 10:30:29 pm
where is it leaking from? fix the leak  :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 10:33:56 pm
where is it leaking from? fix the leak  :dunno


I can't really tell.

The balancer is in the way of the line of sight to the bottom of the water pump.

I couldn't really see where it was leaking from.

I only could see it running out of the seal that the crank snout comes out of the block area.

It is only coolant -- it has no engine oil mixed with it.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 10:36:31 pm
Coolant system pressure tester.

Pump it up within safe limits to get a better idea of where it is leaking from.

That would be my first step.

I would do this even in the event that there is no obvious leaks just to minimize the chance of a leak appearing during the first start up while trying to dial everything else in. An initial start up, trying to keep the thing running and things dialed in only to see a coolant leak is no fun. Been there before.


I think that I can borrow one of those from Autozone.

I will try that.  I hope that it helps because like I said in the post just before this one I can't really see where the leak is really coming from because of the balancer and other stuff in the way.  Crap.

At first glance it appears to come out of the block but I don't think that that is really happening because it would be mixed up with the oil.  Remember also that when I only had motor oil in the motor and spun the oil pump up for a couple of minutes the block had no oil leaks at all.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 03, 2011, 10:42:54 pm
Logically, there are only a few possibilities if you are seeing it running on the crank snout.

Water pump
Timing cover
Stat housing
Intake manifold

If it's the stat or intake you should see it puddling up and running down.

That leaves the pump and timing cover as the likely culprites.

With pressure from the tester you should be able to increase the flow of the leak which would make it easier to see. A light and a small mirror will help. You may need a helper to keep pumping the tester as the pressure bleeds down due to the leak, while you are looking for the leak. Also keep an eye on coolant level, it may run low then you won't see the leak at all because the level is too low for it to leak.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 10:47:03 pm
I just had a crazy(?) idea.

I had used the ARP water pump bolt set.

It had almost all of the right sized bolts but a few were off or just missing.

All of the bolts were able to be torqued properly to 15ft/lbs so I'm figuring that they all were of the correct length?  (As in not too short!)

Here is a pic of the pump and the bolt lengths that I used.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 10:50:17 pm
Logically, there are only a few possibilities if you are seeing it running on the crank snout.

Water pump
Timing cover
Stat housing
Intake manifold

If it's the stat or intake you should see it puddling up and running down.

That leaves the pump and timing cover as the likely culprites.

With pressure from the tester you should be able to increase the flow of the leak which would make it easier to see. A light and a small mirror will help. You may need a helper to keep pumping the tester as the pressure bleeds down due to the leak, while you are looking for the leak. Also keep an eye on coolant level, it may run low then you won't see the leak at all because the level is too low for it to leak.



I don't see it puddling up on top of the timing cover so I think that rules out the stat housing and the intake manifold.

Thanks for your good ideas.

I will have to rent one of those coolant pressure testers from Autozone.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 03, 2011, 10:56:26 pm
All of the bolts were able to be torqued properly to 15ft/lbs so I'm figuring that they all were of the correct length?  (As in not too short!)

If none bottomed out and you were able to get 15lbs without stripping any threads then I don't see how there could be a problem.

If some did bottom out and/or you stripped threads that would keep the fasteners from "clamping" the pump to the timing cover properly................possibly resulting in a leak.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on September 03, 2011, 11:25:18 pm
Is it weaping out of the vent hole in the pump?  Don't know about edelbrock ones, but others will usually have a hole in the top and bottom.  If the seal's gone bad, that's where the coolant comes out.  Might need an inspection mirror to see it.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 11:27:02 pm
Is it weaping out of the vent hole in the pump?  Don't know about edelbrock ones, but others will usually have a hole in the top and bottom.  If the seal's gone bad, that's where the coolant comes out.  Might need an inspection mirror to see it.


I will check for that, too.      :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on September 03, 2011, 11:40:50 pm
did you put sealant on both sides of the gasket and threads of the bolts?
i do this for extra insurance.
if its leaking from the bottom of the W-pump it will look like its coming from the balancer
or crank seal.try and run a finger around the bottom of the pump, you should be able to
feel the leek.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on September 03, 2011, 11:50:20 pm
Is it safe to say the new timing chain cover isn't different from the old one?

Glad you caught the leak!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 11:51:08 pm
did you put sealant on both sides of the gasket and threads of the bolts?
i do this for extra insurance.
if its leaking from the bottom of the W-pump it will look like its coming from the balancer
or crank seal.try and run a finger around the bottom of the pump, you should be able to
feel the leek.


I put sealant on both sides of the gasket but none on any of the bolts.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 03, 2011, 11:53:34 pm
Is it safe to say the new timing chain cover isn't different from the old one?

Glad you caught the leak!


I'm glad that I caught it before I starting running the new engine.

I honestly don't remember what the 363W's timing cover looked like.

Someone earlier mentioned that the timing cover could be a problem.

I don't understand how it could be the problem, though?  IDK?  If it was the problem wouldn't there be some oil in those drips, too?  Doesn't the timing cover only "work" with engine oil?  I'm only getting coolant drips.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 03, 2011, 11:59:38 pm

I don't understand how it could be the problem, though?  IDK?  If it was the problem wouldn't there be some oil in those drips, too?  Doesn't the timing cover only "work" with engine oil?  I'm only getting coolant drips.

Coolant goes from the water pump, through the timing cover then into the block.

Yes the timing cover does seal engine oil too, different areas of the cover than the areas that pass coolant though.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 351 windsor snake on September 04, 2011, 02:02:12 am
Is it weaping out of the vent hole in the pump?  Don't know about edelbrock ones, but others will usually have a hole in the top and bottom.  If the seal's gone bad, that's where the coolant comes out.  Might need an inspection mirror to see it.
This is where I would start looking,especially if that pump has been sitting around for a while.The shaft seals dry out and leak out the vent hole.I have seen them come right with in a few revolutions of start up and go on to be fine,might be worth a try.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 04, 2011, 08:46:24 am
thats what it sounds like is a mismatch between the timing cover and the water pump. he says when he takes the gap off he has a steady stream, so that means its a big leak


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 04, 2011, 10:04:53 am
Is it weaping out of the vent hole in the pump?  Don't know about edelbrock ones, but others will usually have a hole in the top and bottom.  If the seal's gone bad, that's where the coolant comes out.  Might need an inspection mirror to see it.
This is where I would start looking,especially if that pump has been sitting around for a while.The shaft seals dry out and leak out the vent hole.I have seen them come right with in a few revolutions of start up and go on to be fine,might be worth a try.


The coolant pump has been sitting around for 8 months.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 04, 2011, 10:11:09 am
thats what it sounds like is a mismatch between the timing cover and the water pump. he says when he takes the gap off he has a steady stream, so that means its a big leak


What do you mean about a mismatch between the timing cover and the water pump?

True -- it's a drip drip deal until I open up the radiator cap and then it's a steady stream type of big leak.

I was looking at this water pump as a new replacement in the pic below (do you think that it would match up to the timing cover (the current pump seemed to match up I thought but I really didn't pay too close attention))?  I have changed several coolant pumps over the years and never had this problem.  (I've never had one sit around for 8 months, either)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 04, 2011, 10:43:56 am
Robert, slow down on ordering parts. if its a stream pissing out you probably have a mismatch. verify where the leak is coming from, if its a stream it should be easy. anyway, pull the water pump off, use the gasket to compare the water pump and timing cover. if you decide to get a pump make sure you get the correct rotation. this sounds stupid but I seen it happen recently. I would consider picking one up at your local parts house and it makes life easier if its wrong and needs to be exchanged


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on September 04, 2011, 10:59:29 am
Coolant leaks can be very frustrating.  I know on more than 1 occasion, I just wanted to throw in the towel.  Stick with it, think it through logically.  For me the "silver bullet" was that one bolt that you can hardly see (let alone reach with a socket) that had worked a bit loose.  A few layers of skin, and some choice expletives later it was (and remains) leak-free.   :Gluck:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 04, 2011, 01:59:10 pm
What do you mean about a mismatch between the timing cover and the water pump?

True -- it's a drip drip deal until I open up the radiator cap and then it's a steady stream type of big leak.

I was looking at this water pump as a new replacement in the pic below (do you think that it would match up to the timing cover (the current pump seemed to match up I thought but I really didn't pay too close attention))?  I have changed several coolant pumps over the years and never had this problem.  (I've never had one sit around for 8 months, either)

In my experience, the only mismatch that can occur in SBF windsor pumps to timing cover is the shape and size of the water "ports". Some are round and some are rectangular. The outer perimiter of the pump and mating surface, bolt pattern have always been the same as far as I know.

I would stick to the edelbrock pump if I were you, if you have the wrong one get another edelbrock. If it's just a case of the gasket slipping on you or a fastener problem reuse yours.

If your pump is like this one, then the pump you have is about the nicest pump out there that I know of.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-8843/

This is the one I use. They do make one that is configured the way you need.

Siting for 8 months new in the box? No biggie, they sit in warehouses for longer than that before being shipped out often times. If it has been sitting all that time with old coolant in it then I may think twice.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on September 04, 2011, 02:25:41 pm
I have that same pump and had problems with the back plate leaking (even the factory one). Turns out that the Edelbrock casting and a typical back plate gasket aren't a exact match. There were a few spots where the gasket coverage was minimal. I added some Ultra Black in those areas and no more leaks.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 04, 2011, 07:10:30 pm
What do you mean about a mismatch between the timing cover and the water pump?

True -- it's a drip drip deal until I open up the radiator cap and then it's a steady stream type of big leak.

I was looking at this water pump as a new replacement in the pic below (do you think that it would match up to the timing cover (the current pump seemed to match up I thought but I really didn't pay too close attention))?  I have changed several coolant pumps over the years and never had this problem.  (I've never had one sit around for 8 months, either)

In my experience, the only mismatch that can occur in SBF windsor pumps to timing cover is the shape and size of the water "ports". Some are round and some are rectangular. The outer perimiter of the pump and mating surface, bolt pattern have always been the same as far as I know.

I would stick to the edelbrock pump if I were you, if you have the wrong one get another edelbrock. If it's just a case of the gasket slipping on you or a fastener problem reuse yours.

If your pump is like this one, then the pump you have is about the nicest pump out there that I know of.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-8843/

This is the one I use. They do make one that is configured the way you need.

Siting for 8 months new in the box? No biggie, they sit in warehouses for longer than that before being shipped out often times. If it has been sitting all that time with old coolant in it then I may think twice.


That looks like the pump that I have.

It had been used on my 363W for maybe three years.  Then it sat in a plastic closed tub for 8 months and then finally ended up on the 408W.

It worked fine on my 363W.  It should work fine on the 408W also, right?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on September 04, 2011, 07:15:22 pm
My money is on the back plate gasket. I wouldn't doubt that it dried out and cracked while being stored. Mine was after sitting up. I just used a regular Fel-Pro wp gasket along with Ultra Black.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 04, 2011, 07:16:04 pm
Robert, slow down on ordering parts. if its a stream pissing out you probably have a mismatch. verify where the leak is coming from, if its a stream it should be easy. anyway, pull the water pump off, use the gasket to compare the water pump and timing cover. if you decide to get a pump make sure you get the correct rotation. this sounds stupid but I seen it happen recently. I would consider picking one up at your local parts house and it makes life easier if its wrong and needs to be exchanged


Don't worry about me ordering more parts right now!  LOL!

My woman's car (1971 VW) has been acting rough lately and today while driving it started to really run like crap.  To me it looks like it needs a new carb.  I am almost broke and this new carb will break me completely for 2 weeks.      :bang

I have a maybe stupid sounding question -- you know the gasket that fits between the back of the pump and the timing cover?

OK -- now picture the bottom of the Edelbrock pump on the back of it -- it has two hex key headed bolts.

Are you supposed to unscrew those two bolts and then re-tighten those bolts with the gasket sandwhich between those bolts and the back "plate" of the pump?  (I swear that I can't remember what I used to do in the past when changing water pumps.  Those bolts heads are too large while the gasket holes in that area are smaller so I just figured to put the gasket under the bolts?  When I tightened those bolts I had to be careful or it would try and twist the gasket area around the head when it got real close and tight in that area.)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 04, 2011, 07:17:22 pm
My money is on the back plate gasket. I wouldn't doubt that it dried out and cracked while being stored. Mine was after sitting up. I just used a regular Fel-Pro wp gasket along with Ultra Black.


Is that the gasket that goes between the pump and the timing cover?  If so I had just put in a new one with sealer on both sides of it.

Or is it a gasket between the insides of the pump that I can't see because it is inside of the inner workings of the pump (the impeller or whatever it is called)?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on September 04, 2011, 07:33:08 pm
Or is it a gasket between the insides of the pump that I can't see because it is inside of the inner workings of the pump (the impeller or whatever it is called)?

Thats the one.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 04, 2011, 07:46:47 pm
Or is it a gasket between the insides of the pump that I can't see because it is inside of the inner workings of the pump (the impeller or whatever it is called)?

Thats the one.


OK.

What would you do?

I guess it's those two bottom bolts that I keep talking about that would open up the pump, right?

What would you look for when the pump has been taken apart?

Can I get a new inner gasket?


 :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on September 04, 2011, 07:58:32 pm
I would pull the pump and look for signs of the leak.

In addition to the wp bolts, there are also several shallow bolts that hold the plate on.

The plate gasket that comes with a wp gasket kit will work. Its not a exact fit, however. It will be necessary to use some gasket maker. I coated the housings sealing surfaces, then placed the gasket on, Then put a skim coat on the gasket. When you set the gasket on, you will see where the coverage is thin, I added extra Permatex there.

I actually got my wp used, but new condition because of this. Previous owner couldn't fix leak, so I got it cheap. All he could do was shake his head when I told him what I did to fix it.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 04, 2011, 09:12:39 pm
I would pull the pump and look for signs of the leak.

In addition to the wp bolts, there are also several shallow bolts that hold the plate on.

The plate gasket that comes with a wp gasket kit will work. Its not a exact fit, however. It will be necessary to use some gasket maker. I coated the housings sealing surfaces, then placed the gasket on, Then put a skim coat on the gasket. When you set the gasket on, you will see where the coverage is thin, I added extra Permatex there.

I actually got my wp used, but new condition because of this. Previous owner couldn't fix leak, so I got it cheap. All he could do was shake his head when I told him what I did to fix it.


Should this be a good product for me to order?     http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7253/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7253/)

I think that this is what you are talking about.

Thanks for your help.  (It's only like $20 shipped to my job so I can afford that)      :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on September 04, 2011, 09:46:30 pm
If you want to go that route, sure. I got mine from the parts store for like $6.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 04, 2011, 09:58:11 pm
If you want to go that route, sure. I got mine from the parts store for like $6.


You mean don't use Summit or don't use Edelbrock  (or don't use both)?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on September 04, 2011, 10:02:44 pm
If you want to go that route, sure. I got mine from the parts store for like $6.


You mean don't use Summit or don't use Edelbrock  (or don't use both)?

I meant if you wanted to spend 3 times as much and wait another week.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: cheese_05_70 on September 05, 2011, 02:14:20 am
My water pump doesn't have a gasket between the pump and pump plate just black rtv. Its held up on two engines for thousands of miles. Also make sure u used the right gasket to bolt the wp to timing cover. There is a gasket in the kits that looks like it works but once u compared it to the cover and wp it would leak out the one corner and run down doubt that is your problem I bet it the wp plate or weep hole


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on September 05, 2011, 10:24:19 am
I would think its the weep hole and the pump is shot. I've had 2 or 3 cars that have sat for 6+ months and once running again the pump started to leak within 500 miles or so. the weird thing here is that this engine hasn't been started yet. I'm sure its still possible its the weep hole. but it very well could be one of the gaskets. Have you pulled the pump back off yet?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 05, 2011, 11:26:21 am
I would think its the weep hole and the pump is shot. I've had 2 or 3 cars that have sat for 6+ months and once running again the pump started to leak within 500 miles or so. the weird thing here is that this engine hasn't been started yet. I'm sure its still possible its the weep hole. but it very well could be one of the gaskets. Have you pulled the pump back off yet?


Not yet.  I had been working for my boss yesterday.

What is this "weep hole"?  Am I supposed to cover it up?  I'm guessing no but IDK?  Where is it on the Edelbrock pump?  What is it's purpose?  To leak and make me weep?      :bang

On loan I got a coolant pressure tester system and I will pressurize my system today to see if it can show me where the leak is coming from.

First though I will have to troubleshoot/tune my woman's VW because she needs her car daily while I can take the bus to my job.      :bang


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on September 05, 2011, 11:35:31 am
as far as I know it's there so you know when it starts to leak internally. lol Usually there's one hole on top one on the bottom.

With the system pressurized you should be able to hopefully see the leak with out having to remove the balancer.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gmatt9858 on September 05, 2011, 03:30:56 pm
Weep holes, top and bottom on my Ford WP


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 05, 2011, 03:45:09 pm
robert you might try a inspection mirror  to get under water pump to see for leaks


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 05, 2011, 04:39:24 pm
Weep holes, top and bottom on my Ford WP


robert you might try a inspection mirror  to get under water pump to see for leaks


I will do that.  Thanks to you guys and everyone else -- the help is much appreciated.

With the coolant system pressurized -- and after I locate those weep holes on my Edelbrock w/p -- I will concentrate my search on those areas of the w/p and odds are that is where the water is coming out of.

I have the Edelbrock gasket set on order that has all of those gaskets needed (including the internal gasket) -- except for because of the Holiday no-one was really open except for one cool shop so I will get them this Wednesday.

I fixed my woman's VW.  It runs real good like it used to.  I'm glad I really didn't have to spend any real money on it!

Since yesterday we here have been having thunderstorms.  I can't believe it but it is true!      :jawdrop:

Later on this evening I want to pressurize my coolant system and see what I can see.

 :thanx:              You guys are awesome here -- giving me good help and pics, too!              :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 05, 2011, 08:12:01 pm
Robert Im pretty sure its the backingplate gasket or pump to timing cover gasket. you have a steady river flowing, you do not need a psi tester. you can just clean it real good and use "right stuff" or great stuff". why not get gaskets at the local parts store? dont you have napa or autozone, or dvanced or carquest or pepboys or a local parts store? we are talking about a paper gasket here!

make sure you put teflon paste on all the bolts when you put it back together


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 05, 2011, 09:52:30 pm
OK guys.  I have the Edelbrock 8841-2 water pump.

I was able to take the water pump off and all apart.

From what I could tell it was the inner gasket of the water pump.

It looked heavily "used" and in the area that I could see a leak with a mirror earlier that part of the gasket was partially missing.

I swear no one around here had the gasket set that includes the inner gasket because of the Holiday.

I do have the gasket set coming to me Wednesday after work.  I will put it all together again using silicone and then back on the timing cover and also putting the alternator back on.

Then Thursday I will fire it up as long as the asshole neighbors I have to the North of me are gone.  If I ran the Merc for ten minutes and they were home they would cause trouble for me which I don't need -- like bitchin' about the exhaust/carb smell and their one year old son has some sort of breathing problems so I will wait until they all go out for dinner.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 06, 2011, 09:43:11 am
Should I put silicone on both sides of the inner w/p gasket or should I not in case some silicone gets loose and clogs up the coolant system passage-ways somewhere in the engine?

Does anyone know if not completely tightening up the w/p bolts to the timing cover is a good idea after the silicone has been added and then only torquing those bolts to spec after the silicone has had a chance to dry to form a thicker sealing area?  IDK?      :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 06, 2011, 12:37:33 pm
When I was typing "silicone" in the post above this one I meant "RTV".


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Red5.0 on September 06, 2011, 04:56:59 pm
I think you are stressing a little bit too much about the little stuff.

I would just put a thin film of RTV or whatever you are using where you want, let it "tack" up a little bit and then install it and tighten it up. I put RTV on both sides of the gasket on mine.

Think about the guys thrashing between rounds at the track. They don't have time to make sure RTV is setup and then re-torque everything.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 06, 2011, 05:03:52 pm
I think you are stressing a little bit too much about the little stuff.

I would just put a thin film of RTV or whatever you are using where you want, let it "tack" up a little bit and then install it and tighten it up. I put RTV on both sides of the gasket on mine.

Think about the guys thrashing between rounds at the track. They don't have time to make sure RTV is setup and then re-torque everything.


Dude -- I was that close to starting up the 408W for it's first time.

Had just put in coolant and was getting ready with the remote starter switch in my hand when I noticed the drip-drip.

So I took off the radiator cap to see how much was gone and it started draining quicker than I like.  Not drive-able.

So since I will get the inner and outer gasket for this make/model w/p I want to make sure that it is done right.  I've never had to replace an inner gasket before ever.

I want this engine running and was a bit pissed off after all of the hot assed humid weather that I had to work through a w/p gasket held me back.  And because it was Labor Day no one had the junk that I need.

When you said that you put RTV were you talking about the inner gasket or the outer gasket?       :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Red5.0 on September 06, 2011, 05:12:09 pm
Ok I tried reading back thru the last few pages and got kind of confused, is it leaking from where the water pump bolts to the timing cover? Are you using a backing plate on the water pump?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 06, 2011, 05:14:48 pm
Ok I tried reading back thru the last few pages and got kind of confused, is it leaking from where the water pump bolts to the timing cover? Are you using a backing plate on the water pump?


Yes -- the Edelbrock #8841 has a backing plate.

One the bottom of the backing plate there are two screws.  Around one of those screws the inner gasket was missing some of it's pieces (looked like dry-rot) and that I believe is where it was leaking.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Red5.0 on September 06, 2011, 10:01:47 pm
Gotcha. Were you able to find that gasket locally?

Also make sure that water pump backing plate lines up properly with your timing cover. I had a shop send me the wrong timing cover once and it looked real similar to what I needed, but was slightly different. The water pump outlets didn't line up just right with the timing cover and it would fill the area between the pump and timing cover and it would leak directly out the bottom of the pump as soon as I filled the water level up.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on September 06, 2011, 10:07:56 pm
I put a thin layer of rtv on both gaskets and both sides I usally finger paint the rtv on to make sure there isn't to much excess which could come loose its a messy job but I fell its the best way and has never failed me.

Bam


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 06, 2011, 10:36:05 pm
Gotcha. Were you able to find that gasket locally?

Also make sure that water pump backing plate lines up properly with your timing cover. I had a shop send me the wrong timing cover once and it looked real similar to what I needed, but was slightly different. The water pump outlets didn't line up just right with the timing cover and it would fill the area between the pump and timing cover and it would leak directly out the bottom of the pump as soon as I filled the water level up.


OK.        :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 06, 2011, 10:37:22 pm
I put a thin layer of rtv on both gaskets and both sides I usally finger paint the rtv on to make sure there isn't to much excess which could come loose its a messy job but I fell its the best way and has never failed me.

Bam


Thanks, man.  That is what I was looking for.  I will do it your way that has worked well for you.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on September 06, 2011, 10:38:53 pm
I prefer to use the black loctite instant gasket over any rtv because it is the best thing since sliced bread!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 06, 2011, 10:40:53 pm
I prefer to use the black loctite instant gasket over any rtv because it is the best thing since sliced bread!


Where do you purchase it?  Summit racing?      :wonder:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on September 06, 2011, 10:46:19 pm
Well I get it from work. We get it from a local supply store that does like safety supplies, drill bits, tap, tape cleaners solvent. It is called Weber Supply. You might have one but it looks like this. I use it everywhere and on everything. Everything we build has to be extremely heavy duty and gets exposed to the shitiest environments.

http://common1.csnimages.com/lf/47/hash/4063/3512776/1/Instant+Gasket+-+190ml+instant+gasket+aerosol.jpg


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on September 06, 2011, 10:52:01 pm
My favorite is ultra grey and when it sets up you better expect a fight to get it off.

Bam


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 79289chase on September 06, 2011, 11:31:41 pm
My favorite is ultra grey and when it sets up you better expect a fight to get it off.

Bam

I use this stuff from work in the Motorcraft variety. That stuff is tuff as hell to get off later. You will almost tear up a diff cover if its just a stamped steel unit getting this stuff to turn loose. Instead of  just replacing my thermostat housing that a gasket couldn't seal I just use gray sealer now it always works out great no leaks.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on September 08, 2011, 10:28:09 am
Robert. No updates for ever a day?! What gives man! :orglaugh


Get the wp sealed?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: cheese_05_70 on September 08, 2011, 10:45:37 am
Lol I was thinking the same thing no updates for a whole day


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on September 08, 2011, 10:52:30 am
Did the car win... or is he out driving the piss out of it?  :wonder:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 08, 2011, 12:47:46 pm
I put the gaskets in/on the w/p yesterday with the Ultra Grey sealant.  It's instructions says that it is fully cured in 24 hours.

When I get home from work this evening I will fill the radiator up again and hope that I do not have anymore coolant leaks.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 08, 2011, 12:54:44 pm
The next hurdle is my next door neighbors who have the 1 year old that has breathing problems.  The mother has already alluded that the H/C that blow out of my carbed exhaust is very bad for him.  I have a bitch and her cub in the equation.  Living in a trailer park sucks balls but that is all that I can afford right now.  Your next door neighbor is so far up your ass it's not even funny.      :bang

So -- I will have to wait until they are out eating dinner or whatever they do before I run the 408W for ten minutes breaking it in.

I also don't want to run it it's first time when it's dark when I can't see very well.

It might have to wait until the weekend.  Sucks but life is not always a big bowl of cherries, is it?

I am learning more patience white knuckling it more so everyday.       :347ho:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mxracer652 on September 08, 2011, 01:39:40 pm
The next hurdle is my next door neighbors who have the 1 year old that has breathing problems.  The mother has already alluded that the H/C that blow out of my carbed exhaust is very bad for him.  I have a bitch and her cub in the equation.  Living in a trailer park sucks balls but that is all that I can afford right now.  Your next door neighbor is so far up your ass it's not even funny.      :bang

If she was that concerned about child's respiratory problems, they wouldn't live in the place with the worst air quality in the USA.

Start it.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 08, 2011, 01:48:39 pm
The next hurdle is my next door neighbors who have the 1 year old that has breathing problems.  The mother has already alluded that the H/C that blow out of my carbed exhaust is very bad for him.  I have a bitch and her cub in the equation.  Living in a trailer park sucks balls but that is all that I can afford right now.  Your next door neighbor is so far up your ass it's not even funny.      :bang

If she was that concerned about child's respiratory problems, they wouldn't live in the place with the worst air quality in the USA.

Start it.




Where she lives now (location and government supplements like paid housing, WIC, food stamps, etc) is way better than where she is from in Mexico.  Believe it.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 08, 2011, 04:24:25 pm
Where she lives now (location and government supplements like paid housing, WIC, food stamps, etc) is way better than where she is from in Mexico.  Believe it.

So she goes to the place with horrid air quality with a kid that has respiratory problems only to become a total leech to our government. Nice.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 08, 2011, 05:39:28 pm
Where she lives now (location and government supplements like paid housing, WIC, food stamps, etc) is way better than where she is from in Mexico.  Believe it.

So she goes to the place with horrid air quality with a kid that has respiratory problems only to become a total leech to our government. Nice.


They have been living here (next to me) for around five years, now.  Her son was just born last year.

If I was "in charge" America would be a lot different than it has become.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 08, 2011, 05:42:38 pm
Great news --> my boss said that I can tow my Merc here to the shop and work on it in the parking lot (which he owns).

He also said that I can borrow his huge king-cab Ford diesel turbo "work" truck to get parts or whatever.

And if I get "locked out" of the building I can borrow his gas generator.

Thank God that I am blessed with some good and nice people in my life.  (The forum members here, too)

 :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on September 08, 2011, 05:58:06 pm
Where she lives now (location and government supplements like paid housing, WIC, food stamps, etc) is way better than where she is from in Mexico.  Believe it.

So she goes to the place with horrid air quality with a kid that has respiratory problems only to become a total leech to our government. Nice.


They have been living here (next to me) for around five years, now.  Her son was just born last year.

If I was "in charge" America would be a lot different than it has become.

anchor baby...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 08, 2011, 07:08:07 pm
just buy them dinner  :hmmmm:



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on September 08, 2011, 09:15:17 pm
Just don't tell me the baby is in a house where they smoke cigarettes or weed all day. :rant

You're doing the right thing by respecting the neighbor's baby. :clap


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: cheese_05_70 on September 09, 2011, 08:01:44 am
Did the car win... or is he out driving the piss out of it?  :wonder:

I was hoping mercy was going to come back in here and be like this is beast is an animal. 
I figured he was so excited that he hadn't quit driving it yet. Cross country road trip to where he could really open it up.
Guess I will just keep checking back.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 09, 2011, 09:53:14 am
I think that God is testing me to see just how much I can take.

I just got a 30 day eviction notice from the trailer park manager saying that the owner had too many complaints from the tenants who I have to continually call the police on for disturbing the peace (loud music).

I am trying my best so bear with me.

The good news is that the w/p was leaking thru it's inner gasket before and now that I replaced it no more coolant leaks at all!

AAA towing took almost three hours to bring me a flat-bed tow truck so by the time that I got to work (stewing in my mind as to what the fuck I am going to do with the fucking eviction notice) it was dark.

I put the plugs wires on and my coil wires.

The engine would not start.

My fuel bowls filled up a bit too high which I will fix today after work.

I will also have to check for spark because I am not sure if it is getting spark properly.

I had a beast of a time before putting on the steel distributor gear instead of it's OEM iron one -- I had to have my friend help me and they heated it so maybe the Pertronix "module" got fried.  (I should have removed it before I gave it to him!)

I am trying my best -- with a lot of bad stuff in my life right now.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on September 09, 2011, 10:04:28 am
Sorry to hear that Robert.  I'm sure Cali has a legal process that must be followed for evictions.  If the complaints have no basis and you can show that, you should be able to fight the eviction.  Although it sounds like you'd be happier somewhere else.   :Gluck:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on September 09, 2011, 10:06:32 am
I think that God is testing me to see just how much I can take.

I just got a 30 day eviction notice from the trailer park manager saying that the owner had too many complaints from the tenants who I have to continually call the police on for disturbing the peace (loud music).

I am trying my best so bear with me.

The good news is that the w/p was leaking thru it's inner gasket before and now that I replaced it no more coolant leaks at all!

AAA towing took almost three hours to bring me a flat-bed tow truck so by the time that I got to work (stewing in my mind as to what the fuck I am going to do with the fucking eviction notice) it was dark.

I put the plugs wires on and my coil wires.

The engine would not start.

My fuel bowls filled up a bit too high which I will fix today after work.

I will also have to check for spark because I am not sure if it is getting spark properly.

I had a beast of a time before putting on the steel distributor gear instead of it's OEM iron one -- I had to have my friend help me and they heated it so maybe the Pertronix "module" got fried.  (I should have removed it before I gave it to him!)

I am trying my best -- with a lot of bad stuff in my life right now.

turn down the damn music! :whistling:

dont worry man, it'll work out for the best i'm sure of it! i moved from CA to IA, maybe you should look into a similar move. where i live, i could light off a hydrogen bomb and nobody would even care.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fidstang on September 09, 2011, 01:58:13 pm
Robert, keep the phone records of every time you had to call the police for the disturbance. It can be used in court if they really plan to evict you. Right a letter to the owner, not the property manager and ask him for a meeting so you can see all of these reports and to discuss why the neighbors are allowed to live there while you have called the police on them for loud music. You can also question him about the managers refusal to help in the matter and talk about the discrimination that makes you as a tenant, worse than the others.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: grslms51 on September 09, 2011, 09:17:05 pm
Damn,that stinks,Merc...i bet they saw your car back in your yard and don't care that a hard working person has to warm his car up in the morning to go to work..while some of them are living off of the state and stay up half of the fucking night and sleep until lunch time.....your car is legal...if you don't want to move i would fight this shit.JMO.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 10, 2011, 12:19:39 am
Damn,that stinks,Merc...i bet they saw your car back in your yard and don't care that a hard working person has to warm his car up in the morning to go to work..while some of them are living off of the state and stay up half of the fucking night and sleep until lunch time.....your car is legal...if you don't want to move i would fight this shit.JMO.


I have made my mind up and my woman agrees.  Especially since any other neighborhood that we can afford is worse than this one (gangs, robbery, etc).

I am going to fight this tooth and nail.

I already talked with legal aide of O.C. -- they said that since we have lived here more than a year (since 2002) and that we haven't done anything wrong -- the owner is in violation trying to give us a retaliatory eviction.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on September 10, 2011, 12:21:26 am
Robert, what kind of terms are you on with the property manager?  Is the property manager sane or a nut job?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 10, 2011, 12:23:58 am
I have GREAT news.

At about 5pm this afternoon I fired up my new engine and ran it good for 15 minutes.

It sounds fucking awesome.  Just like I wanted it.

It revs up real quick sounding like it has a LOT of power.

My co-workers exclaimed "that is a bad ass engine, Robert".

At least something is going good in my life.

And no leaks -- no oil and no coolant!

I dropped the oil from the pan but forgot my oil filter strap tool that I had left at home and couldn't get the oil filter off with my hands only.

I want to cut it open.  I will do that tomorrow in the afternoon.

Also I had to buy a new dial-back digital timing light later on the way home in the work truck because my old one the light stopped working and there was no way that I was going to drive the new engine until I know exactly how much total ignition timing is on it right now.

I am just so happy to run it.  It is badass!

 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 10, 2011, 12:25:08 am
Robert, what kind of terms are you on with the property manager?  Is the property manager sane or a nut job?


She is sane.  We are on decent speaking terms.  She said that she won't get in the middle of this between me and the owner probably so she doesn't get fired.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 10, 2011, 12:30:09 am
Thanks to Jim (Woody)  Nicole (his wife) and their shop workers because this engine seems to be very good.  Also thanks to this forum's members who are very cool with me!      :thanx:

Sometime this weekend I will be taking the Merc on the road.

I remember that Jim suggests to not hammer it too hard until it has a couple hot/cold cycles to help seat the rings the right way.

And then after that I will drive carefully -- not just going WOT shifting up the gears because this is the most power that I've ever had and I sure ain't wrapping this Merc around a telephone pole.  No sir!

I sure needed something good in my life.  That is for sure.      :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 10, 2011, 12:33:32 am
Congrats on getting it fired up, sorry to hear about the drama where you live, that sucks.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Red5.0 on September 10, 2011, 02:08:29 am
Congrats on the engine Merc, it has been a long time in the making.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on September 10, 2011, 02:12:47 am
thats great news merc :clap
i bet you had a smile from ear to ear.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on September 10, 2011, 02:41:51 am
Congratulations, Robert!  Enjoy the hell out of it... :burnout

Good luck on the eviction troubles.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on September 10, 2011, 02:52:59 am
I have GREAT news.

At about 5pm this afternoon I fired up my new engine and ran it good for 15 minutes.

It sounds fucking awesome.  Just like I wanted it.

It revs up real quick sounding like it has a LOT of power.

My co-workers exclaimed "that is a bad ass engine, Robert".

At least something is going good in my life.

And no leaks -- no oil and no coolant!

I dropped the oil from the pan but forgot my oil filter strap tool that I had left at home and couldn't get the oil filter off with my hands only.

I want to cut it open.  I will do that tomorrow in the afternoon.

Also I had to buy a new dial-back digital timing light later on the way home in the work truck because my old one the light stopped working and there was no way that I was going to drive the new engine until I know exactly how much total ignition timing is on it right now.

I am just so happy to run it.  It is badass!

 :burnout

Nice! :clap 

Depending how you cut open the filter, you could get a lot of debris from the oil filter housing in the pleats which will have you thinking the engine is trashed when in reality everything is OK.  IF you have the proper tool it is a valuable way to make sure all is OK.  If not checking the oil filter could be/is very misleading.

Robert, what kind of terms are you on with the property manager?  Is the property manager sane or a nut job?


She is sane.  We are on decent speaking terms.  She said that she won't get in the middle of this between me and the owner probably so she doesn't get fired.

You need to get good legal advice on this.  Not your friend's brother's cousin's old pal that was a divorce lawyer in the '60's if you know what I mean.  That is if you want to stay where you're at. :dunno 

Are you good enough with the property manager to find out what legal firm they use for evictions?



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mxracer652 on September 10, 2011, 06:54:16 am
Why not move to a different city/state?  If I was being evicted for bullshit reasons, I wouldn't give the landlord another dollar, but I'm a capitalist like that.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on September 10, 2011, 08:05:42 am
Pics or it didn't happen . . . . .  






Just kidding.   ;D

Robert, glad to see that your motor and your dreams are finally becoming fulfilled.   :ban  Your patience with saving up your money for what you wanted is admirable.  

Longterm landlord here, although in PA.

Are you on a month-to-month lease?  If you are then you are more than likely up the creek.  I use a 30 day one in PA (and unless I do something very, very stupid) there is no recourse for the tenant.  Once I serve notice, the month-to-month contract legally ends at the end of the following month--and I don't have to have a reason as it is my property to do what I want when the lease is legally terminated. 

If you are midway through a longer contract, then you might have a leg to stand on--until the end of the contract.  Then you could still be in the same predicament.  

Best advice from me is to calmly talk with the owners and find out exactly WTF is going on.  Good luck.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 351 windsor snake on September 10, 2011, 08:09:38 am
Why not move to a different city/state?  If I was being evicted for bullshit reasons, I wouldn't give the landlord another dollar, but I'm a capitalist like that.

Hey Robert,why dont you emigrate down to New Zealand.Bring your merc,bring your lady,plenty of work here in Christchurch,rebuilding the city after the quake.No Mexican circus music either.
We could go fishing to make Nate look useless and jealous.
We would do a straight swap for Hayden123,infact we will put up some cash to sweetin the deal..... :whistling:
Let me know,I will hook you up :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on September 10, 2011, 08:19:14 am
Why not move to a different city/state?  If I was being evicted for bullshit reasons, I wouldn't give the landlord another dollar, but I'm a capitalist like that.

Hey Robert,why dont you emigrate down to New Zealand.Bring your merc,bring your lady,plenty of work here in Christchurch,rebuilding the city after the quake.No Mexican circus music either.
We could go fishing to make Nate look useless and jealous.
We would do a straight swap for Hayden123,infact we will put up some cash to sweetin the deal..... :whistling:
Let me know,I will hook you up :party


 :spit:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on September 10, 2011, 09:08:11 am
N/M


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 10, 2011, 10:44:50 am
Congrats on getting it fired up, sorry to hear about the drama where you live, that sucks.


Congrats on the engine Merc, it has been a long time in the making.


thats great news merc :clap
i bet you had a smile from ear to ear.


Congratulations, Robert!  Enjoy the hell out of it... :burnout

Good luck on the eviction troubles.


Thanks guys!

I plan on having fun with this engine.

Now if they could have premium fuel back at $2 a gallon that would be appreciated.      :spit:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 10, 2011, 10:51:01 am


Depending how you cut open the filter, you could get a lot of debris from the oil filter housing in the pleats which will have you thinking the engine is trashed when in reality everything is OK.  IF you have the proper tool it is a valuable way to make sure all is OK.  If not checking the oil filter could be/is very misleading.


Thanks for the heads-up.  The oil that I drained looked as clean as it did when I poured it in new.  I trust Jim's work so I'm not even going to stress about the oil filter.  I don't have the proper filter cutter tool.  And money is REAL tight right now.  I feel a little guilty driving my gas hog Merc because of this eviction crap but what can I do?  If I don't drive it for a month I probably would save about $250.      :bang


You need to get good legal advice on this.  Not your friend's brother's cousin's old pal that was a divorce lawyer in the '60's if you know what I mean.  That is if you want to stay where you're at. :dunno 

Are you good enough with the property manager to find out what legal firm they use for evictions?


We would like to stay here.  You can't beat $525 a month for a space rent for my trailer.

I could try to find out about the legal firm that the owner uses.  What could I do with that info?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 10, 2011, 10:53:09 am
Why not move to a different city/state?  If I was being evicted for bullshit reasons, I wouldn't give the landlord another dollar, but I'm a capitalist like that.


Because I am secure in my job for the past 9 years.  I am in the medical industry (I am the warehouse Supervisor) so when everyone else was getting laid off my job was still dependable.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 10, 2011, 10:59:05 am
Pics or it didn't happen . . . . .  






Just kidding.   ;D

Robert, glad to see that your motor and your dreams are finally becoming fulfilled.   :ban  Your patience with saving up your money for what you wanted is admirable.  

Longterm landlord here, although in PA.

Are you on a month-to-month lease?  If you are then you are more than likely up the creek.  I use a 30 day one in PA (and unless I do something very, very stupid) there is no recourse for the tenant.  Once I serve notice, the month-to-month contract legally ends at the end of the following month--and I don't have to have a reason as it is my property to do what I want when the lease is legally terminated. 

If you are midway through a longer contract, then you might have a leg to stand on--until the end of the contract.  Then you could still be in the same predicament.  

Best advice from me is to calmly talk with the owners and find out exactly WTF is going on.  Good luck.


I am in a month to month deal.

Legal Aide and Fair Housing here in OC said that since I've lived here so long the owner has to give a reason why and also I am entitled to a 60 day notice.  I haven't been warned nor broken any trailer park rules so what reason can he write?

It is obvious that he is evicting me in a retaliatory way which is illegal here.  I don't break trailer park laws nor city laws yet am being evicted because the bitches complained to the owner that their music isn't that loud nor bothering any of the other Latinos (go figure!) yet I keep calling the police on them for noise disturbance/disturbing the peace in accordance with city laws.

What has happened to this country of ours?      :wtf:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 10, 2011, 11:09:16 am
Why not move to a different city/state?  If I was being evicted for bullshit reasons, I wouldn't give the landlord another dollar, but I'm a capitalist like that.

Hey Robert,why dont you emigrate down to New Zealand.Bring your merc,bring your lady,plenty of work here in Christchurch,rebuilding the city after the quake.No Mexican circus music either.
We could go fishing to make Nate look useless and jealous.
We would do a straight swap for Hayden123,infact we will put up some cash to sweetin the deal..... :whistling:
Let me know,I will hook you up :party


I wish I could afford the long move over to your country.

I truthfully am sick and tired of how this country is giving more, up and beyond rights to these fucking immigrants (read=illegals) than they are giving to their own tax-paying citizens.

And it seems to be getting worse year by year.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mxracer652 on September 10, 2011, 11:44:16 am
Why not move to a different city/state?  If I was being evicted for bullshit reasons, I wouldn't give the landlord another dollar, but I'm a capitalist like that.


Because I am secure in my job for the past 9 years.  I am in the medical industry (I am the warehouse Supervisor) so when everyone else was getting laid off my job was still dependable.
You do realize that the medical industry anywhere in the USA is booming right?  I'd take this gift horse & leave.  You live in one of the shittiest, most expensive states in the US.  You could move to the southeast & get a 20% pay raise just due to the cost of living decrease.  Hotlanta, hell even Charlotte, NC is a large medical research area.  Pittsburgh is too for that matter (weather sucks though). 

I am in a month to month deal.

Legal Aide and Fair Housing here in OC said that since I've lived here so long the owner has to give a reason why and also I am entitled to a 60 day notice.  I haven't been warned nor broken any trailer park rules so what reason can he write?


What has happened to this country of ours?      :wtf:
Once your contract is up, he is under no obligation to let you stay on his property.  Any business owner can tell a customer to leave for no reason at all.  You do not have a right to force people to do business with you.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: quick26 on September 10, 2011, 01:49:16 pm
or the raliegh, durham, duke nc area......lots of medical research.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on September 10, 2011, 06:05:05 pm
If you want to stay there you need legal advice from a lawyer that specializes in this specific field.  I had to go to court for a tenant I had to evict a few years back.  It was painful waiting for my case and seeing how some lawyers screwed their clients because they were not familiar with evictions, tenants rights, the necessary paper work, etc, etc, etc.  

For example below is who I use for evictions because it is all they do.  There should be similar firms for tenants in your position who should be able to tell you if you have a leg to stand on or not over the phone.

http://www.evict123.com/llc.htm


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on September 10, 2011, 06:09:19 pm
Once your contract is up, he is under no obligation to let you stay on his property.  Any business owner can tell a customer to leave for no reason at all.  You do not have a right to force people to do business with you.

It's a little more complicated than that here.  We are very tenant rights friendly.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 10, 2011, 10:46:08 pm
Thanks for all of your help, guys.

My woman found a very nice and quiet apartment a few miles away from my job.  It is only $300 more per month.  We can swing that.

The manager lives there (not like where I live currently) and she said that she is nice but firm.  She told be straight up that she does not put up with some tenants having loud music parties that disturb any of the other tenants.

I just put $100 down on a nice and large 1 bedroom/1 bath apartment.

Wish me and Sandy (my woman) luck because we will find out if our credit checks out to the owner's satisfaction and then we will be moving in this coming Friday!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: aussiewinza on September 10, 2011, 11:18:54 pm
That sounds good merc, sounds like ull be much hapier in the long run, sucks that you gota move but sometimes this kind of shit happens for a reason,
all  the best mate.
and when things settle down..........MORE PICS PLEASE  lol


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on September 10, 2011, 11:36:38 pm
Great news on the apartment.   :Gluck:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 10, 2011, 11:40:44 pm
That sounds good merc, sounds like ull be much hapier in the long run, sucks that you gota move but sometimes this kind of shit happens for a reason,
all  the best mate.
and when things settle down..........MORE PICS PLEASE  lol



I will.

I had to work today and will have to work tomorrow, too.

I need to remove the "old" oil filter, install a new one and put in 7 quarts of fresh oil.

The break in procedure went very well.

Then I will check the fluid level of the C4 topping it off if necessary (actually only 1/2 to the full mark or because of the high stalling T/C which runs it nice and "hot" it will come out the over-flow tube on the C4).  (Learned that a year ago the hard way!  LOL)

Then I will need to fasten down the carb return springs and give the engine a visual once over and then I will take it on the road!

Will probably have to do some Holley carb tuning.       ;)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 10, 2011, 11:42:22 pm
Great news on the apartment.   :Gluck:


Thanks.  Sandy and I needed that!

I want to take some video of the engine so you guys can hear what it sounds like.

Check the bottom of my sig -- this baby sounds that good.  It sounds like a wicked mess!

Tops to Jim (Woody) and Bob (Cam Motion)!

 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fidstang on September 11, 2011, 03:18:24 pm
Merc, if the new land lord doesn't take any crap with loud tenants, you may have some issues with your car there.

I've found that land lords have more issue with loud cars than music or tenants because those can be dealt with. The loud exhaust will not be over looked so easily because it is more likely that you will not make it quieter.

I hope that's not the case for you, but you will want to thoroughly discuss your car with her so she knows what to expect. I say this because my last land lord and property management team tried kicking me out because of my Mustang(s). But.........when I had originally signed my lease I had talked to them about the fact that I work on my cars and they can be considered loud. We had them add into my lease that I will be able to have them and work on them as long as I rent garage units to house them. When my new lease came up they tried to remove this clause. Like I'm an idiot that doesn't read the fine print.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 11, 2011, 09:53:30 pm
glad you got the car running.


it kind of sounds like your car has absolutely nothing to do with the eviction


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 11, 2011, 11:02:10 pm
glad you got the car running.


it kind of sounds like your car has absolutely nothing to do with the eviction


They didn't mention my Merc at all.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 11, 2011, 11:11:57 pm
Merc, if the new land lord doesn't take any crap with loud tenants, you may have some issues with your car there.

I've found that land lords have more issue with loud cars than music or tenants because those can be dealt with. The loud exhaust will not be over looked so easily because it is more likely that you will not make it quieter.

I hope that's not the case for you, but you will want to thoroughly discuss your car with her so she knows what to expect. I say this because my last land lord and property management team tried kicking me out because of my Mustang(s). But.........when I had originally signed my lease I had talked to them about the fact that I work on my cars and they can be considered loud. We had them add into my lease that I will be able to have them and work on them as long as I rent garage units to house them. When my new lease came up they tried to remove this clause. Like I'm an idiot that doesn't read the fine print.


I hope that I don't have any trouble with the new landlord and my Merc.  I doubt anyone will complain except for Monday thru Friday at 6:45am.

I have been working all day at my job and the evenings on the Merc for the past 7 days and tomorrow I start a new work week.  (The money is rolling in though so I'm grateful!)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 11, 2011, 11:12:44 pm
The deal is this engine is like a beast.

I am so tired from working and such but today I finished up and drove it around a little bit.

Holy smokes, Batman!!!

This thing is like a race car that runs on pump gas.  I will have to get a video of it so you can see it shake the car and how good it sounds!

It is a seriously powerful engine for pump gas that is for sure!

Great job to Fordstrokers!!!      :pimp

I was giggling driving it around.  The only thing that kinda worried me for a brief moment until I started laughing again at the power of it was OMG it is way LOUD!  That is thru dual Flowmaster 3 chamber Delta 50's the three inch ones from collector to my dumps.

At idle it is definitely louder but once you get into the pedal say at 3000rpm it is MUCH louder than the 363W ever was.

A couple of times I revved it up to 6000rpm in first gear and it was a fucking ROAR.

Whatever about the noise (because inside the ride it TOTALLY sounds just like a race car!) I just totally love this.  The best thing that has ever happened to me.

And for once in my life this engine does not leak.      :thanx:

Dude -- in gear it can rev to 6000rpm like crazy fast!  (I am the happiest man around here that is for sure!)



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 11, 2011, 11:28:27 pm
I will be honest because a lot of the business world is full of crooks and swindlers and this hobby has them, too.

I was a little hesitant about getting an engine made from someone in a different state on the other side of the country.

I was worried about what if something went wrong and such.

There are a couple of shops who make stroker engines like seven miles from my house.

My woman at first said to go to them because they are local and for the laws and such if something went wrong.

But after being a member here for a couple of years now and doing lots of reading here and around the Net I found that Fordstrokers really doesn't have any "black marks" on them.

Yet those couple of shops around me had some nasty comments written by angry customers of theirs.


I am happy to say that I am grateful that I put some trust in Fordstrokers.      :rock

It is beyond words for me to describe my Merc.  You would literally have to be sitting in it to get it.

It is badass!      :burnout



Fordstrokers has made me a friend for life and I will tell and show people my ride and where the engine came from!      :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: woody on September 11, 2011, 11:34:02 pm
 :smile


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on September 12, 2011, 06:19:52 am
good for you merc,its a crazy feeling when you first put your boot into it. ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 12, 2011, 06:23:48 am
Congrats Merc.... now post up some videos...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: quick26 on September 12, 2011, 08:23:04 am
Robert, I was running chambered mufflers with 3"pipe and dumps. I switched to a straight thru oval muffler to dumps.  At idle its quieter and the drone at cruise was reduced, however, when you push the loud pedal, you don't loose any of the sound you love.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on September 12, 2011, 08:46:48 am
Congrats buddy!!

I can't wait to see the videos..

It is always nice to see something work out for the little guy.

May god be with you in your new journeys and keep you out of hydropoles and the rhubarb. Amen

 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on September 12, 2011, 09:25:31 am
So what's the torque converter stall at? ;D

Gladyou got it running. sounds like a blast.  :burnout :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on September 12, 2011, 10:49:13 am
 :clap :ban :rock

Great to hear, Robert!  Have fun with that beast!  Any chance of you getting it out to make a few passes?

There used to be a guy around here with a 1971 Torino Sportsroof (351C) knocking down 10-sec timeslips without breaking a sweat.  That turned some heads.  I'm sure your Merc will raise a few eyebrows and leave some scratching their scalps!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on September 12, 2011, 11:05:22 am
Glad to hear about the test drive and the new apartment!   :ban

We're all looking forward to more pics and video...   ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on September 12, 2011, 11:26:54 am
 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 12, 2011, 05:19:02 pm
By switching mufflers you should pick up a little more power.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on September 12, 2011, 05:21:10 pm
Congrats im sure you will enjoy it now have some fun.

Bam


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 12, 2011, 09:31:37 pm
By switching mufflers you should pick up a little more power.


What would you recommend that are 3" and will pick up power yet be quieter?  Is there a such thing that is possible like that?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fidstang on September 12, 2011, 09:34:33 pm
By switching mufflers you should pick up a little more power.


What would you recommend that are 3" and will pick up power yet be quieter?  Is there a such thing that is possible like that?

I think Borla has the mufflers with a one way valve that only opens up at WOT, so its quiet at idle and cruise speeds.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on September 12, 2011, 09:37:07 pm
Was just about to suggest that, but it's the Dynomax VT's, or the longest magnaflow's with a couple of magnaflow/dynomax bullets at the ends


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on September 12, 2011, 09:41:18 pm
I had some Dyno max ovals that were the striaght through design that muffled our 393C that ran low 11's in our Mach 1 and it was not obnoxius at all until you floored it.

Bam


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on September 12, 2011, 11:15:09 pm
Thanks for all of your help, guys.

My woman found a very nice and quiet apartment a few miles away from my job.  It is only $300 more per month.  We can swing that.

The manager lives there (not like where I live currently) and she said that she is nice but firm.  She told be straight up that she does not put up with some tenants having loud music parties that disturb any of the other tenants.

I just put $100 down on a nice and large 1 bedroom/1 bath apartment.

Wish me and Sandy (my woman) luck because we will find out if our credit checks out to the owner's satisfaction and then we will be moving in this coming Friday!

That's great news Robert.  Hope it all works out.

Sounds like you're having a blast in with the new engine. :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: quick26 on September 13, 2011, 06:40:39 am
I got a used set of stainless works mufflers. Some times you get lucky. Well I was told they were anyway. Didn't see a stamp on them.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 13, 2011, 09:00:58 am
Was just about to suggest that, but it's the Dynomax VT's, or the longest magnaflow's with a couple of magnaflow/dynomax bullets at the ends

:whs:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 13, 2011, 09:42:27 am
Sounds like you're having a blast in with the new engine. :burnout


I am!      :party

Because I have to move (need money instead of gas), rent is going to be several hundred dollars more at the new place and the fact that it is God-loving LOUD -- it just went from a DD to a weekend cruiser.

I am OK with that.  I now have my dream machine.  Call it a mid-life crisis move.  I am happy.      ;D

I am content knowing how fast it is -- to where just the remembrance of driving the Merc knowing that it is ready for me anytime makes me happy enough due to the turn that my life has taken.

And when I need the reminder I can drive it around some during the day -- just not early in the morning.  (And yes -- I already have launched it and went thru the gears for a lil' blast letting off at around 80mph -- it is VERY fast for a street car IMHO!)



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Red5.0 on September 13, 2011, 10:36:34 am
You know what they say Merc..."You can live in your car but you can't race your house"

That car is pretty big, might save a bunch on rent j/k

Glad to hear you are getting everything sorted out.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 13, 2011, 12:05:27 pm
 :spit:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: HIGHVOLTJ on September 13, 2011, 12:43:34 pm
Hey Robert, I would go with some Hooker Max-flo mufflers.  Straight through and very quiet.  I bet you would pick up some power over the chambered jobs, and they still sound killer at WOT.  Chambered mufflers aren't much quieter than straight pipes, they only reflect sound waves to eliminate certain frequencies.  Straight through/packing style mufflers actually absorb some sound.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 13, 2011, 02:29:01 pm
Hey Robert, I would go with some Hooker Max-flo mufflers.  Straight through and very quiet.  I bet you would pick up some power over the chambered jobs, and they still sound killer at WOT.  Chambered mufflers aren't much quieter than straight pipes, they only reflect sound waves to eliminate certain frequencies.  Straight through/packing style mufflers actually absorb some sound.


Thank you.

The way that you just described why the Flowmasters (even three chambered) are so loud is a way that my mind just clicked on why!

 :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 14, 2011, 12:02:11 am
The 408W has the T/C doing a manual VB third gear 10mph stall at around 5000rpm (or a tick more).


This engine has explosive power.  It being angry isn't the right word for it IMHO.

I had floored it carefully and pegged 6000rpm in 3rd gear and man oh man does it keep accelerating.

The Merc used to be a land yacht.  Believe you me anyone in it now would feel like it's a hopped up light ride because it moves so darn fast!

 :burnout



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 14, 2011, 11:31:39 pm
Here is what the Merc sounds like.  Sorry it took me so long -- I have been super busy.

It sounds like it means business -- just how I like it.  If I give it 1/4 pedal it seems docile yet idles like a beast.  Half pedal makes it move faster than the old engine for sure.  Sounds a lot better too -- probably due to the increased CR.  At fully floored this Merc is like a fucking rocket.

Even in the heat of this summer here in Anaheim with me driving it with authority -- it still hasn't gotten past 185*F!  That is with the built C4 and the high stalling T/C fluid routed into the bottom of the radiator.  This new engine is so much better in many different ways.  You get what you pay for!

We are moving into our new and quiet apartment this Friday!      :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 14, 2011, 11:42:09 pm
Whats you idle speed?

Is your hood sitting crooked?

Also, I like these guys for exhaust parts. All 300 stainless...

http://www.stainlessworks.net/products/mufflers.html





Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: liljoe07 on September 14, 2011, 11:48:43 pm
whats the compression on this thing? Sounds real healthy.....


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 14, 2011, 11:50:37 pm
Whats you idle speed?

Is your hood sitting crooked?

Also, I like these guys for exhaust parts. All 300 stainless...

http://www.stainlessworks.net/products/mufflers.html






In gear the engine idle speed is 1050rpm.

My hood is a custom job that I did.  It has a functional scoop in front and it is higher closest to the windshield compared to it is in the front since it is still using the OEM hood latch.

This hood set-up helps pull the hot engine air away from the engine insuring a cooler intake charge which is fuller of oxygen molecules.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on September 14, 2011, 11:51:59 pm
1050???
what happens when you bring it back down to 850 900?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 14, 2011, 11:52:48 pm
whats the compression on this thing? Sounds real healthy.....


10ish.

Thanks.  I am in love with it all over again!

It sounds good and moves very fast.  Fucking awesome for a SBF pump gas N/A engine!

I don't know for sure that I swear that if I had some good slicks on it that it could break into the high 10's . . .      :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 14, 2011, 11:54:17 pm
1050???
what happens when you bring it back down to 850 900?



Then it only gets like 6" of manifold vacuum and it is "seeking" too much not getting enough fuel at idle.

At 1050rpm in gear it is running like a badass champ.      :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 14, 2011, 11:58:12 pm
Jim and Nicole Woods at Fordstrokers know their stuff.  My engine is testament to that!

 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on September 15, 2011, 12:17:28 am
In gear the engine idle speed is 1050rpm.

My hood is a custom job that I did.  It has a functional scoop in front and it is higher closest to the windshield compared to it is in the front since it is still using the OEM hood latch.

This hood set-up helps pull the hot engine air away from the engine insuring a cooler intake charge which is fuller of oxygen molecules.

What about park/neutral idle speed?

No room for a dual snorkel cold air intake?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: woody on September 15, 2011, 12:50:02 am
 :drink


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: aussiewinza on September 15, 2011, 01:56:33 am
that sounds great!, gotta be happy with that


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: grslms51 on September 15, 2011, 05:46:34 am
sounds really good....does it use much more fuel than before?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 15, 2011, 06:24:56 am
In gear the engine idle speed is 1050rpm.

My hood is a custom job that I did.  It has a functional scoop in front and it is higher closest to the windshield compared to it is in the front since it is still using the OEM hood latch.

This hood set-up helps pull the hot engine air away from the engine insuring a cooler intake charge which is fuller of oxygen molecules.

What about park/neutral idle speed?

No room for a dual snorkel cold air intake?


In park it idles at 1200rpm.

I personally don't like the look of a dual snorkel cold air intake.      :pimp

I will have to take some more pics to show you all what I like.

I have three inches of spacers between my carb and the air filter.  My air filter is 14" in diameter and is 4" tall.  Kinda straightens out the air for a quicker entrance.      ;)        :naughty:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 15, 2011, 06:28:05 am
that sounds great!, gotta be happy with that


I am.      :stang65:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 15, 2011, 06:41:07 am
sounds really good....does it use much more fuel than before?


That is a difficult question to answer.

This week I only had $40 to put into the tank -- that filled it up to a little bit over 3/4 tank because I had earlier put in ten gallons.  The fuel cell is a 22 gallon deal.

If I would drive it like the rest of the commuters then it would probably get a little better gas mileage because I can tell that it is a way more efficient engine than the 363W.

Yet we all know that what I have (and love) can NOT be driven like my Grandma would.

I will have to fill the tank up to it's full mark that I made on it mentally (an inch below totally full because in the hot days if it's completely full it will overflow a little bit) and then write down the odometer reading to next fill up to really calculate it's current mpg.

I don't want to guess about the 408W's mpg because I would probably be wrong?   (Yet the last time that I checked it's fuel tank it had dropped down to a 1/4 tank.  I have a lead foot when traffic permits.  LOL!)

I will fill it up today and will write down it's odometer reading.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 351 windsor snake on September 15, 2011, 07:11:57 am
When I think of your Merc Robert,I can't help but think of the "Millenium Falcon".

"She'll make point five past lightspeed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. I've made a lot of special modifications myself".

 ;D




Seriously though man,I love the passion you show for your ride and how you put your heart and sole into making it what you want.
I would wager that you get more out of this car,than what most people who have spent 10 times what you have.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 15, 2011, 08:02:24 am
When I think of your Merc Robert,I can't help but think of the "Millenium Falcon".

"She'll make point five past lightspeed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. I've made a lot of special modifications myself".


That is it in a nutshell.  And I must admit the way it looks up close probably deters any would-be thieves more so than a loud car alarm.   LOL!

I'll have to quote you in my signature.      :party



Seriously though man,I love the passion you show for your ride and how you put your heart and sole into making it what you want.
I would wager that you get more out of this car,than what most people who have spent 10 times what you have.




 :thanx:


If you ever want to visit Disneyland here in Anaheim -- I will show you the Merc's finer quality -- moving into light-speed and beyond . . . the other day I was happily surprised how fast it moved from 50mph to 100mph.      :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 15, 2011, 08:09:24 am
It also shows me how SLOW the old 363W was.      :spit:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on September 15, 2011, 11:53:02 am
Sounds awesome!, congrats on getting it together and enjoying it.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on September 15, 2011, 11:59:54 am
where is the flyby at WOT?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on September 15, 2011, 12:18:48 pm
Sounds great Robert (wish you had revved it though)!  Can't wait to see it in action in the 1/8 mile.  I'm sure you have a lot going on with the move, so I'll wait as patiently as I can.   :thumb:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 15, 2011, 03:11:22 pm
where is the flyby at WOT?


Since it moves good now I have to be careful with traffic and the police.

Be patient -- I will get some video of that I promise.  My woman can work the digital camera.      :347ho:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 15, 2011, 03:18:24 pm
Sounds great Robert (wish you had revved it though)!  Can't wait to see it in action in the 1/8 mile.  I'm sure you have a lot going on with the move, so I'll wait as patiently as I can.   :thumb:


I will get more video taken later -- and I will rev the engine.

I want to try some in-car video, too.  I always loved seeing them on this forum.  For sure!

The 1/8 mile runs will have to be put on hold for now.  Too much going on in my life with the move and the increased rent.  I am looking for more avenues to make some more money on top of what I am doing now.

(Plus I had to cheap out in the fuel line department -- ended up using more 1/2" rubber fuel line than is allowed at the track -- I have a 1/2" aluminum fuel line from the leaf springs to the area right under where the front door hinges into the body.  The rest is rubber fuel hose.  In my case the way that I have it set-up it works fine but against track regs.)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on September 15, 2011, 04:15:38 pm
By switching mufflers you should pick up a little more power.


What would you recommend that are 3" and will pick up power yet be quieter?  Is there a such thing that is possible like that?

I have tried several 3" mufflers and havent found any that are quiet or they would be on several of my rides.  Even tried some resinators with them didnt do a thing.

What can work is going from 3" down to 2 1/2 at the muffler. Unless the muffler is bolted to the headers. As the exhaust comes out of the head its hot and expanding as it moves towars the rear it cools and reduces in speed. Reducing the dia can help to raise the speed to optimum.  Think about the old hemis they ran 2 1/2 ioto the muffler and 2 1/4 out. They produced plenty of power.

I run IMCO 2 1/2" premium muff on 2 of my vehicles. A 400+ HP 302 Grand Marquis and a 500+ HP truck. I have eletric cutouts on the Merc. Both are about as quiet as stock. Plenty of power no drone or such. With the 3" flowmasters on the truck had to use ear plugs making a trip. Now I have nailed these rides in front of cops and they never even looked.




Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 15, 2011, 06:03:25 pm
Thanks for the idea but I honestly couldn't neck down my exhaust.  I've learned from some pro's that what the collector is should be all the way back.

You know what?  I am actually starting to love the sound.  I won't change it.  Plus I like the added safety of people hearing my Merc even if they can't see it because I happen to be in their "blind side".

Talk about everyone's neck snapping as I pull into a parking lot or the gas station.

Maybe I'll make some new local friends?      :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: al2 on September 15, 2011, 06:57:29 pm
sounds great robert i hope all that power doesn't break your c4.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on September 15, 2011, 09:21:27 pm
Thanks for the idea but I honestly couldn't neck down my exhaust.  I've learned from some pro's that what the collector is should be all the way back.

You know what?  I am actually starting to love the sound.  I won't change it.  Plus I like the added safety of people hearing my Merc even if they can't see it because I happen to be in their "blind side".

Talk about everyone's neck snapping as I pull into a parking lot or the gas station.

Maybe I'll make some new local friends?      :dunno

I have leared from some installing the cars exhaust on the dyno with pressure sensors, temp sensors and air speed sensors it isnt always true.  Alot of builds would realy benifit from 2 3/4 " exhaust 3 being a bit to much 2 1/2 not quite enough. Think chrysler is using 2 3/4 on some of thier hemis. Hard to find that size though and most muffler shops dont have the dies for that size either.

What is realy neck snapping is crusing in some were like a cruse in , car show or such quietly ..then fliping a switch that opens the collector dumps. Over half the peeps probably have to see a chriropractor the next day or at least put their jaw back in place.  Cool at the drags too. Pull up to the waiting lanes. The guy points to you as next... open the dumps as you pull up to the line. Make the run and close the dumps while boppin down the return road. 


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 16, 2011, 12:22:45 am

I have leared from some installing the cars exhaust on the dyno with pressure sensors, temp sensors and air speed sensors it isnt always true.  Alot of builds would realy benifit from 2 3/4 " exhaust 3 being a bit to much 2 1/2 not quite enough. Think chrysler is using 2 3/4 on some of thier hemis. Hard to find that size though and most muffler shops dont have the dies for that size either.


The dyno might say that you are making more power but reality will set in when I pass you at the track.  It's who ever finishes first -- an acceleration contest.

Open headers with a proper tuned collector length will beat anything that has any piping/mufflers after the collectors -- because it will be the least amount of exhaust flowing restriction out there (and less weight, too).

If you agree with me there then how is making stuff after the collector smaller (which adds more restriction to exhaust flow) make the ride accelerate faster?  (It won't happen)


What is realy neck snapping is crusing in some were like a cruse in , car show or such quietly ..then fliping a switch that opens the collector dumps. Over half the peeps probably have to see a chriropractor the next day or at least put their jaw back in place.  Cool at the drags too. Pull up to the waiting lanes. The guy points to you as next... open the dumps as you pull up to the line. Make the run and close the dumps while boppin down the return road.  


That is why I am called the "Ricer King" here.

I want you and everyone else to hear what I have under the hood.  I never liked a "sleeper".

Yet unlike the "fart cans" that Ricers use (that don't make their ride any faster) my Merc will perform just like it sounds.      ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 16, 2011, 12:23:45 am
sounds great robert i hope all that power doesn't break your c4.


Me, too!      :party

The built C4 and the high stalling T/C together set me back $4000.

It is built tough to last.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on September 16, 2011, 12:33:47 am
Turbo a better place for the "smaller exhaust is better" talk is this thread:

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,19160.0.html (http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,19160.0.html)



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 16, 2011, 08:01:44 am
Turbo a better place for the "smaller exhaust is better" talk is this thread:

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,19160.0.html (http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,19160.0.html)




 :thanx:

(You are correct -- the stuff that I talk about is N/A -- I don't have any experience with power adders.  Too expensive for me.  Heck -- I don't need any more with this new 408W because it is a street car -- IOW it is fastest enough!      ;))


I was too tired to search for the link to the thread at this forum where I went in great lengths to try and describe to a different member about the complete importance of a free-flowing exhaust and to what that all entails.

To try and explain that the more restrictive an exhaust system is the slower the engine will accelerate.

That the easier you make it for the engine to expel the exhaust (also with the properly tuned collector the cam can do it's job of "scavenging") the quicker that engine will accelerate.


To try and explain that anything after the collector is just more weight with parts to either -- not annoy people at the track and/or to be street legal (or not to deafen the driver and the passengers).

The faster that the engine will accelerate -- the faster that engine will rev into it's little 1500rpm window where it makes it's most power (I call that it's "powerband") -- hence in that powerband the engine will be able to accelerate the ride and it's passenger(s) the fastest (Read = "ET").

 :welcomesbf

 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 16, 2011, 08:46:55 am
MERC those flowmasters are a restriction!


I dont know the details but you paid too much for your c4


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 16, 2011, 10:46:50 am
MERC those flowmasters are a restriction!


People say that a lot.

I am thinking otherwise.  I think that the reason that they are so loud is because they are almost straight thru with the chambers just to cancel some noise frequencies yet not being much of a restriction at all.

I am thinking that the quieter the muffler is the more of a restriction it is.


I don't really know nor have the ability right now to run it at the track -- then change them to something better (muffler only) -- re-tune the carb -- and run it again at the track with the different mufflers to really see which is better.



I dont know the details but you paid too much for your c4


It is made to handle 700hp and that is including the $1000 billet custom 10" T/C.      :fu:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: quick26 on September 16, 2011, 11:04:58 am
A chambered muffler is not a muffler. It has baffles that divert the flow and give it the sound it has. A straight thu muffler has a perforated tube that allows the sound to be absorbed into the packing yet not obstruct flow.  When I held up my Mac or flowmasters, guess how much light was visible out the other ND, none.  Guess how much I could see out my straight thru stainless works, it was like looking thru a window.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on September 16, 2011, 11:08:52 am
MERC those flowmasters are a restriction!


++++++++++++++ 1 on that.

Looking at the inside of one completely screws with everthing I have learned about air flow.  It was part of my job to know about such things. Each of those partitions deflectors in a flowmaster is like hitting a wall and the air has to deflect around it loosing air speed and flow.


BTW I dont have anything with a power adder at this point in time.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on September 16, 2011, 12:00:01 pm
Yes those Flowmasters are a restriction, I don't use them anymore because of this. You can believe what you want to believe, you are only losing power.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 16, 2011, 12:23:22 pm
Yes those Flowmasters are a restriction, I don't use them anymore because of this. You can believe what you want to believe, you are only losing power.


So all of you guys are saying that reduction in "noise" doesn't also mean a reduction in flow?

I am not arguing -- just asking hopefully the right questions to further learn.      :thanx:


My mind is questioning while thinking of that at 2000rpm the Merc is a certain level of noise and a certain level of power.

At 3000rpm the Merc is considerably louder and yes it is making more power.

At say 6000rpm WOT it is roaring like a group of angry tigers and it is making a good amount of power.

That is what is confusing me.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on September 16, 2011, 12:25:07 pm
Merc...  I like your project.

For anyone that wants to experiment, here it is;

Don't give a shit what exhaust system you have, post up your results after you do this.
Drill a small hole in your pipe before the muffler about 12" or more at the 6:00 position, then run you engine.

I'll bet you're going to "hear" and "feel" the "backpressure" the muffler, bends and tubing create.

I've done this with my shit using straight through and a deflector style mufflers.
At 3" pipe... it's damn difficult to determine which creates more backpressure.

I've also ran full length with no muffler.  I still got backpressure!

What Bill stated is true, but at what point do you just say "fuck it" and run what you think sounds best?
And IF you NEED that last bit of mph...  absolutely run no muffler or just not a Flomaster....  IMO.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on September 16, 2011, 12:28:24 pm
"Noise Canceling" is purely the art of inducing or redirecting the same frequency your trying to quiet back at itself (deflector or induction type)

You can also use frequency absorption (baffled, perforated type)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on September 16, 2011, 12:28:56 pm
Yes those Flowmasters are a restriction, I don't use them anymore because of this. You can believe what you want to believe, you are only losing power.


So all of you guys are saying that reduction in "noise" doesn't also mean a reduction in flow?

I am not arguing -- just asking hopefully the right questions to further learn.      :thanx:


My mind is questioning while thinking of that at 2000rpm the Merc is a certain level of noise and a certain level of power.

At 3000rpm the Merc is considerably louder and yes it is making more power.

At say 6000rpm WOT it is roaring like a group of angry tigers and it is making a good amount of power.

That is what is confusing me.

then run a marathon in a respirator... :)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on September 16, 2011, 12:33:58 pm
Yes those Flowmasters are a restriction, I don't use them anymore because of this. You can believe what you want to believe, you are only losing power.


So all of you guys are saying that reduction in "noise" doesn't also mean a reduction in flow?

I am not arguing -- just asking hopefully the right questions to further learn.      :thanx:


My mind is questioning while thinking of that at 2000rpm the Merc is a certain level of noise and a certain level of power.

At 3000rpm the Merc is considerably louder and yes it is making more power.

At say 6000rpm WOT it is roaring like a group of angry tigers and it is making a good amount of power.

That is what is confusing me.
Here's something to question your thinking.  The louder you want your stereo, what do you need?  More watts, more power.  So by making you exhaust louder... one would think you need more power to create that sound.   So you have less going to the wheels... LOL


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on September 16, 2011, 12:40:06 pm
Here's something to question your thinking.  The louder you want your stereo, what do you need?  More watts, more power.  So by making you exhaust louder... one would think you need more power to create that sound.   So you have less going to the wheels... LOL
W-H-A-T?

 :???


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: bender460 on September 16, 2011, 01:17:39 pm

Here's something to question your thinking.  The louder you want your stereo, what do you need?  More watts, more power.  So by making you exhaust louder... one would think you need more power to create that sound.   So you have less going to the wheels... LOL

    OR a more efficient less restrictive speaker....


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on September 16, 2011, 01:39:18 pm
"Noise Canceling" is purely the art of inducing or redirecting the same frequency your trying to quiet back at itself (deflector or induction type)

You can also use frequency absorption (baffled, perforated type)

Or electronically produce a destructive wave that cancels it out.  They were monkeying with electronic mufflers a while ago, but I think it was cost and weight prohibitive to be able to do it effectively. 


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fidstang on September 16, 2011, 03:12:49 pm
It's all fun until that officer hears you from 5 city blocks away! Then catches you and your the only one with a loud car on the road at the time. Can't talk your way out of that one and buying an exhaust system to pass their decibel meter test is going to cost you $$$$$.

Been there, had to buy a cheap catted mid-pipe and almost didn't pass even with stock mufflers. Plus the disturbance ticket wasn't cheap either. Shitty part of my story, it was a damn LS1 that made all of the noise when he seen me and we passed in opposite directions. No one understood and the judge thought I was being a smart ass when I said "why cant anyone tell the difference between a Ford and a Chevy"!  :duh


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on September 16, 2011, 03:54:34 pm
It's all fun until that officer hears you from 5 city blocks away! Then catches you and your the only one with a loud car on the road at the time. Can't talk your way out of that one and buying an exhaust system to pass their decibel meter test is going to cost you $$$$$.

Been there, had to buy a cheap catted mid-pipe and almost didn't pass even with stock mufflers. Plus the disturbance ticket wasn't cheap either. Shitty part of my story, it was a damn LS1 that made all of the noise when he seen me and we passed in opposite directions. No one understood and the judge thought I was being a smart ass when I said "why cant anyone tell the difference between a Ford and a Chevy"!  :duh

Shits retarded.. I know people that constantly get haggled about their exhaust.. when Bikes have much louder exhausts and nothing happens.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on September 16, 2011, 05:54:28 pm
yes you can put a better muffler on thats a bit quieter and gain power

now you have to understand your new motor is badass enough it will sound nasty through any muffler, there seems to be a part of you that thinks with different mufflers it wont sound like angry lions and tigers at 6k. it will still sound mean at WOT, quieter, but not wimpy by any means

Robert for 4k that thing should be capable of 1000hp and have a trans brake. (among other things you probably dont have in yours) but run what ya got!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 79289chase on September 16, 2011, 06:49:45 pm
When Robert goes :burnout all the women and children will scream "lions, tigers, bears oh my". Sorry bud I couldn't help but think of this.

I learned the hard way in early spring that you don't pass officers going up a hill at 25-30 with it in high gear resonating and making all kind of ruckus. They get all excited super easy. Then you mention the trucks using the jake brakes over a mile away on the highway and they have nothing to say and get even more excited. The only thing that saved me that day was I was in my work uniform(Ford service) and he let me slide.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on September 16, 2011, 07:19:25 pm
you need something like i made for mine,3.5" with hooker aero chambers.
sounds awsome and free flowing.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on September 16, 2011, 07:27:36 pm
you need something like i made for mine,3.5" with hooker aero chambers.
sounds awsome and free flowing.

I used to have a set of those. Sounded awesome but damn they were heavy.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on September 16, 2011, 07:32:11 pm
your dead on there, i could not believe how heavy they were.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: windsordeath on September 16, 2011, 07:44:26 pm
Noticed that myself.. I'd bet serious money you wouldn't rot them out faster than some "flowsmashers"... Lrt's see rust get through that!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on September 17, 2011, 10:51:12 am
The best of both noise quiet and being able to hear your stereo


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fidstang on September 17, 2011, 11:23:38 am
Robert, just get these:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-17957/

Save 10 bucks and get summit dollars!

They are proving to be a good investment. You keep the straight through performance and quiet idle/cruise levels.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: garsten on September 17, 2011, 12:26:53 pm
Robert, just get these:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-17957/

Save 10 bucks and get summit dollars!

They are proving to be a good investment. You keep the straight through performance and quiet idle/cruise levels.

i was in the right place at the right time and got a pair of these for free from my local speed shop.

the metal flap that is hinged in the exhaust flow has a steel mesh around the diameter of the flap.  at idle, it does quiet the exhaust, but eventually, the steel mesh wears or moves around and you end up with a noticeable metal tapping as the valve opens and closes.  i eventually had enough, pulled the exhaust and removed the hardware from the inside of the muffler.  the quality of the mufflers is great, from the summit picture you can see they are a flow thru design and these do sound nice.  i am not a flowmaster fan, i prefer magnaflow and dynomax.

i would not recommend these muffler, but that is just me.  best of luck with what ever you choose to do Robert.

cheers, claude


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Outlaw Bill on September 17, 2011, 01:04:59 pm
The straight thru Magnaflows come in different diameters and lengths, you want the largest diameter and longest straight muffler for the best sound reduction. The X pipes also reduce the level and change the tone.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on September 18, 2011, 10:38:48 pm
Robert without a post all weekend... uh oh...  Something's wrong. 

Hope it's cause he's having too much fun with the car or just moving into that new apartment.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 20, 2011, 09:59:45 am
Robert without a post all weekend... uh oh...  Something's wrong. 

Hope it's cause he's having too much fun with the car or just moving into that new apartment.


I appreciate all of you guys' help.  Thank God for the Net that makes this all possible relatively easy.      :thanx:

I have been super busy moving into the new apartment and gathering up all of my car parts and junk that I have gotten over the years from the old place.  (Had to store it at where I work because the lady said "hell no keep that greasy, messy and flammable junk out of the apartment!  LOL)  I had to do a bit of clean-up, too.

Finished the moving chores up last night.

The Merc runs excellent.  I am VERY happy about it.

The kicker is that even if I made the Merc quieter -- I can't afford to pay the higher rent that this nice apartment wants and DD the Merc.  It's either one or the other.  I am OK with that -- my lady really loves the new apartment so that is good enough for me.

One day I will have to try some straight thru Magnaflows.  I have never had any other muffler except for the Flowmasters.

You guys are all top notch in my book!      :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 23, 2011, 10:02:56 am
I think that management here will have to change my nickname.  "The Ricer King" doesn't really fit anymore.

My Merc at idle sounds NASTY -- yet at WOT it is fast as FUCK.      :yes:      :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on September 23, 2011, 10:27:55 am
I dunno Robert.  I think an official track visit should be a prerequisite to a nickname change.   ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on September 23, 2011, 10:57:41 am
I dunno Robert.  I think an official track visit should be a prerequisite to a nickname change.   ;D

Seconded...motion carries (sorry, King)  ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 23, 2011, 12:57:47 pm
For now you will have to take my word for it.      :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on September 23, 2011, 01:03:45 pm
Behave yourself on the streets Robert.  One day Fordracing and/or I will get you out to the track. :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 23, 2011, 01:14:35 pm
Behave yourself on the streets Robert.  One day Fordracing and/or I will get you out to the track. :burnout


I will and that sounds good, Nate.

I still have those RPM heads that Fordracing wants.      :naughty:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 23, 2011, 01:53:22 pm
My Merc has broken many BS internet myths -- here are three off of the top of my head -->

1)  A 5000 rpm stall T/C is too much for the street.  My heavy-assed Merc moves off of a stop very easily.  The 408W makes so much torque down low (even with the Super Vic intake and the radical cam that it has) that you don't have to rev it high to make it move.  If you are easy with the gas pedal it moves very well.  It gets mean with half pedal launches and is scary if I floor it.

2)  A cam that radical (that I have) is no good for the street or it has to be a SR cam to be radical.  This camshaft is very good.  Idles like a Pro Street ride, only makes 7" of vacuum at a 1050rpm idle in Drive.  Yet drives very well stop light to stop light thanks to the high stalling T/C and the 4.56 rear gear.

3)  This is all with a modified 750cfm DP carb with annular boosters.

Me saying that I am happy with my new Merc is an under-statement at a minimum!      :naughty:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Alex on September 23, 2011, 02:18:18 pm
Congratz on your ride.

A track visit should definitely be high on the list... I'm curious to see what times that Mercury will put down.

Maybe one day I can have my "matraca" (clunker) running half decent  :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 23, 2011, 03:10:22 pm
Congratz on your ride.

A track visit should definitely be high on the list... I'm curious to see what times that Mercury will put down.


Thanks.  I hope that soon you will have your ride to your liking.

Call me weird, call me crazy -- a track visit with the Merc and getting a number or two is not keeping me up at nights, truthfully.

To me it would just be a number.  That just doesn't do it for me.

What does do it for me is how my Merc makes me feel driving it on the street.  It's current performance makes me very happy.

At WOT is it very fast to me?  Yep.

Does it at WOT with it's solid engine mounts lift the suspension so high that it feels like at any time that it will do a little wheelie?  Yep.

Have I already learned how to launch gentle in 1st, then goose it some more in 2nd gear and then floor it going into 3rd gear to move like a bat out of hell on radial street tires?  Yep.

That is all that I need to be happy.

That is me.      :)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 23, 2011, 03:13:18 pm
Behave yourself on the streets Robert.  One day Fordracing and/or I will get you out to the track. :burnout
Im ready when ever you guys are. Right now only race planned in the near future is SCSN in Vegas in November. Sadly just to spectate and help a few people out


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 23, 2011, 03:14:30 pm
Behave yourself on the streets Robert.  One day Fordracing and/or I will get you out to the track. :burnout
Im ready when ever you guys are. Right now only race planned in the near future is SCSN in Vegas in November. Sadly just to spectate and help a few people out


Why only spectate?  Different class?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 23, 2011, 03:18:48 pm
Congrats again Robert on getting it running and finding a new place to live.
I can imagine the grin on your face when you start up the car for a drive.....


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 23, 2011, 03:20:35 pm
Behave yourself on the streets Robert.  One day Fordracing and/or I will get you out to the track. :burnout
Im ready when ever you guys are. Right now only race planned in the near future is SCSN in Vegas in November. Sadly just to spectate and help a few people out


Why only spectate?  Different class?
Money issues have kept me from finishing my car right now, so just going to hang out with a bunch of guys I know and help out some. Should be a fairly cheap weekend as long as I can stay out of the casinos.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 23, 2011, 03:38:09 pm
Congrats again Robert on getting it running and finding a new place to live.
I can imagine the grin on your face when you start up the car for a drive.....


I am grinning ear to ear.

It sounds and behaves real nasty.  At idle it shakes the whole car.  (I had made a comment to Jim to tell the cam designer that I would like it to rattle my teeth at the stop light!)

This is at 1050rpm with 7" of vacuum.  Yet if I give it a lil' bit of gas it performs better than that old 363W POS.  That one didn't like just a little gas pedal.  This 408W has much better street manners.

My new apartment is quiet.  I dig it, too.  No more loud weekend parties.  Or loud assed people talking and laughing at all hours of the day/night who have nothing better to do than make a bunch of noise.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: fidstang on September 24, 2011, 09:33:14 am
  :bsmaxed: :yright: :linky:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 24, 2011, 02:06:19 pm
My lady has been pet-sitting in Newport for the past two weeks.  I have no one to hold the camera.      :msorry:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 28, 2011, 04:59:29 pm
The only reason NOT to have a high stalling T/C like I do is your gas mileage is going to drop dramatically.

Every thing else about my T/C is definitely for the better.  In any gear the tach pegs over 5000rpm while cruising instantly if I get rude with the gas pedal.  That is where the 408W is making some serious power!

The 4.56 rear gear is not helping gas mileage, either.  Nor are the 26" tires.      :whistling:

I am getting 5mpg right now.  Is it worth it?  IMHO yes it is.  It is soooooo much fun to drive now.  The fun meter is pegged so hard that words do not do the truth any sort of justice.

I pull into a crowded gas station and everyone's neck is about to snap because they are checking out what sort of ride is making that Pro Street sound?  I kinda like the attention!      :pimp


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Jeff351w on September 29, 2011, 03:24:38 am

I am getting 5mpg right now.  Is it worth it?  IMHO yes it is.  It is soooooo much fun to drive now. 

Now that's a man that loves his performance! 

Good for you, Robert.  How many miles do you normally drive in a week?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Brent Clay on September 29, 2011, 08:01:05 am
Robert


Congrats on your build......Im happy for you. I understand the time and money that goes into a new build.... but, help me out here; you have 50 some pages of post and I still cant find any pics of this build.

When do we get to see pics of this beast????

Brent


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 29, 2011, 09:26:41 am
Robert


Congrats on your build......Im happy for you. I understand the time and money that goes into a new build.... but, help me out here; you have 50 some pages of post and I still cant find any pics of this build.

When do we get to see pics of this beast????

Brent


http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,27178.585.html (http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,27178.585.html)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on September 29, 2011, 09:37:24 am

I am getting 5mpg right now.  Is it worth it?  IMHO yes it is.  It is soooooo much fun to drive now. 

Now that's a man that loves his performance! 

Good for you, Robert.  How many miles do you normally drive in a week?


I have moved closer to my job.  I live three miles from my work now.

Until I get a LoJack system with the cellphone calling Early Warning deal I don't trust Anaheim as far as some dumbass thief stealing my Merc.  I am currently leaving it secure at my job.  My new apartment only has a garage for one car and that is for my lady's ride.  I don't like the idea (at all) of parking my Merc in the street overnight.  No sir!

So when I get that security measure taken care of -- Monday thru Friday would be around 30 miles.


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: 69 Merc on September 29, 2011, 08:04:55 pm


use a highport 225 and get the 'perfect cam to tie it together the HP will be faster ...




Or a TW 205cc fully CNC'd head and a Super Vic intake with the perfect cam to tie it all together!      :party


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: ETRACER on September 30, 2011, 12:14:34 am


use a highport 225 and get the 'perfect cam to tie it together the HP will be faster ...




Or a TW 205cc fully CNC'd head and a Super Vic intake with the perfect cam to tie it all together!      :party

Wish you would go to the track so we could see what your combo is capable of Robert. You talk about it's all perfect but yet we have no baseline to judge from. We would all love to know how that 408 performs @ the 1/4 mi.

This is what everyone here has been judge on since the start. Unless things have changed and the track doesn't matter anymore. Just saying. ;)


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: Red5.0 on September 30, 2011, 02:02:13 am


use a highport 225 and get the 'perfect cam to tie it together the HP will be faster ...




Or a TW 205cc fully CNC'd head and a Super Vic intake with the perfect cam to tie it all together!      :party

I'd take the highport's if I had a choice.


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: paulzig on September 30, 2011, 05:32:50 am
Sorry guys, I just got a bit tired of the to and froing ...  We should get back to talking about combinations that go quick instead ...



Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: 69 Merc on September 30, 2011, 09:34:05 am


use a highport 225 and get the 'perfect cam to tie it together the HP will be faster ...




Or a TW 205cc fully CNC'd head and a Super Vic intake with the perfect cam to tie it all together!      :party

Wish you would go to the track so we could see what your combo is capable of Robert. You talk about it's all perfect but yet we have no baseline to judge from. We would all love to know how that 408 performs @ the 1/4 mi.


ETRACER -- I "talk about my ride being perfect" because it is for me.

You shouldn't be getting any resentments towards me because I don't take it to the track.

Here is your "baseline" -->

You know what my ride weighs with me in it.

You know what my combo consists of -- engine, trans, drive-line and etc.  (I gave the cam's actual specs).

You can get a good idea of what my Merc is "capable of" within a tenth or so of a second and a real good guess at what MPH it is "capable of".

I've said from day one here that my Merc is a DD and not a track car.  It is not a street/strip car no matter how fast I make it.


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: knowitall on September 30, 2011, 11:25:23 am


use a highport 225 and get the 'perfect cam to tie it together the HP will be faster ...




Without testing, it's all guessing. If one trip down the track is too much for it, I would not trust it on the street every day.  :thanx: :dunno
Or a TW 205cc fully CNC'd head and a Super Vic intake with the perfect cam to tie it all together!      :party

Wish you would go to the track so we could see what your combo is capable of Robert. You talk about it's all perfect but yet we have no baseline to judge from. We would all love to know how that 408 performs @ the 1/4 mi.


ETRACER -- I "talk about my ride being perfect" because it is for me.

You shouldn't be getting any resentments towards me because I don't take it to the track.

Here is your "baseline" -->

You know what my ride weighs with me in it.

You know what my combo consists of -- engine, trans, drive-line and etc.  (I gave the cam's actual specs).

You can get a good idea of what my Merc is "capable of" within a tenth or so of a second and a real good guess at what MPH it is "capable of".

I've said from day one here that my Merc is a DD and not a track car.  It is not a street/strip car no matter how fast I make it.


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: Red5.0 on September 30, 2011, 11:29:27 am
Merc what does that car weigh?


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: 69 Merc on September 30, 2011, 11:41:56 am
Merc what does that car weigh?


The Merc and I weigh 4000lbs.


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: 69 Merc on September 30, 2011, 11:45:42 am


use a highport 225 and get the 'perfect cam to tie it together the HP will be faster ...




Or a TW 205cc fully CNC'd head and a Super Vic intake with the perfect cam to tie it all together!      :party

I'd take the highport's if I had a choice.


Why the 225 HP's over TW 205's?

What do the HP's flow at .600"?  Better evacuation of the exhaust?      :dunno

IIRC (I have the flow sheets at home) my TW 205's flow 319cfm or 321cfm at .600" and I forget the exhaust flow at .600"


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: Red5.0 on September 30, 2011, 05:09:50 pm
There are a lot more guys making big power with the high ports than the wedge head. Ask Rich why he switched to them.

I like the TW 205 head also and for your application Merc, they are great. But for someone wanting potential for more power or a more race oriented motor the high ports are great for their level. And by that I mean without having to step up into something more hardcore and pricey.



Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: scienceguy on September 30, 2011, 05:19:33 pm
Twisted Wedge heads are inherently flawed.

They have a steeper valve angle, but stock location intake port.  This makes for a dog-leg with about any single plane intake, as the intake ports are almost horizontal. It also makes for a seriously abrupt turn from the port into the chamber. 

99% of all Chevy altered valve angle heads, 18º etc, have SIGNIFICANTLY raised intake ports to straighten the port out, and reduce that tight turn into the chamber.  Google some pics, and you'll see. 

Here's a pic showing how the valve angle is flattened down, and how it makes for a sharp turn into the chamber.  Combine this with a single plane intake with a lot of 'drop' and you're far from ideal. 

(http://webpages.charter.net/hotrods/WvsTW.jpg)



Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: jayh on September 30, 2011, 05:55:34 pm
I think most would agree HP>tw

Robert, calculators are just a shot in the dark. your car might go high 11's, it might go high 13's.

just sayin'



Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: 69 Merc on October 02, 2011, 08:54:17 pm
I think most would agree HP>tw

Robert, calculators are just a shot in the dark. your car might go high 11's, it might go high 13's.

just sayin'




 :spit:

It might run low 14's or it just might run low 11's.  (High 10's if it goes on a lil' diet with good slicks)

I'm just sayin'      :naughty:


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: lethal on October 02, 2011, 09:11:12 pm
prove it merc  :whistling:


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: 69 Merc on October 02, 2011, 11:17:37 pm
prove it merc  :whistling:


One day I just might?!?!.


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: jayh on October 03, 2011, 07:31:05 am
the first day might be a reality check, but you'll get hooked

you have no idea what you're missing!  :burnout


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: 302ute on October 03, 2011, 08:46:44 am
the first day might be a reality check, but you'll get hooked

you have no idea what you're missing!  :burnout

There is so much truth in the above statement x10.

Do yourself a favour Merc and go have a skid at the track, you will wonder why you haven't already been doing it for years!!!!!!


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 03, 2011, 08:57:05 am
the first day might be a reality check, but you'll get hooked

you have no idea what you're missing!  :burnout

There is so much truth in the above statement x10.

Do yourself a favour Merc and go have a skid at the track, you will wonder why you haven't already been doing it for years!!!!!!
x10
You dont have to beat on it at the track.... Its all about having fun


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on October 03, 2011, 05:31:44 pm
Like I've said go to the track and drive it 150% the same way as you drive it on the street.while the track is "prepped"your not magically gonna hook and break something. You'll have a blast.


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: 289nate on October 03, 2011, 09:38:48 pm
Twisted Wedge heads are inherently flawed.

They have a steeper valve angle, but stock location intake port.  This makes for a dog-leg with about any single plane intake, as the intake ports are almost horizontal. It also makes for a seriously abrupt turn from the port into the chamber. 

99% of all Chevy altered valve angle heads, 18º etc, have SIGNIFICANTLY raised intake ports to straighten the port out, and reduce that tight turn into the chamber.  Google some pics, and you'll see. 

Here's a pic showing how the valve angle is flattened down, and how it makes for a sharp turn into the chamber.  Combine this with a single plane intake with a lot of 'drop' and you're far from ideal. 

(http://webpages.charter.net/hotrods/WvsTW.jpg)



I thought it was interesting how much David Clafflin picked up at higher lift on the bench with a couple minutes of work done to the port. 

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,29356.msg339868.html#msg339868

They are hindered by the fact that they are designed around a stock intake and exhaust port location.  For that application they are an excellent piece especially with a little work.  I wonder if the newer FAC 170 and others come with an improved port that takes care of what David experienced?


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: scienceguy on October 03, 2011, 10:23:46 pm
I thought it was interesting how much David Clafflin picked up at higher lift on the bench with a couple minutes of work done to the port. 

Since it's such an abrupt turn across the short side radius, slowing the air past it helps it make the turn.  To slow the air, the bottom of the port near the turn can be widened.  This, along with some additional massaging is what I'm assuming David did to the port.  Maybe he will chime in.

A raised intake port would straighten things out, and REALLY turn the heads on.  TFS should make a similar head, maybe an R head with a radically raised intake port, and sell a matching intake manifold to go with it.  Do that, and they would really have something. 


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: 289nate on October 04, 2011, 01:06:26 am

A raised intake port would straighten things out, and REALLY turn the heads on.  TFS should make a similar head, maybe an R head with a radically raised intake port, and sell a matching intake manifold to go with it.  Do that, and they would really have something. 


I got to see such an attempt.  The intake port floor was filled and the port was raised so radically that the top of the ports on the Vic Jr intake had to have aluminum welded to the top to match ports.  Just don't ask about the rest of that 331.  Open check on the induction and then the owner's business slowed so the rest was severely handicapped.  :duh


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 04, 2011, 08:02:26 am
I dont even know what was done to David;s heads but Im betting it was all in the short turn and the majority was a the 2o'clock position. ANY cylinder head will gain from this, not just tw


Title: Re: SADI vs Billet Camshaft Core
Post by: 85_GT on October 04, 2011, 09:48:51 am
Twisted Wedge heads are inherently flawed.

They have a steeper valve angle, but stock location intake port.  This makes for a dog-leg with about any single plane intake, as the intake ports are almost horizontal. It also makes for a seriously abrupt turn from the port into the chamber. 

99% of all Chevy altered valve angle heads, 18º etc, have SIGNIFICANTLY raised intake ports to straighten the port out, and reduce that tight turn into the chamber.  Google some pics, and you'll see. 

Here's a pic showing how the valve angle is flattened down, and how it makes for a sharp turn into the chamber.  Combine this with a single plane intake with a lot of 'drop' and you're far from ideal. 

(http://webpages.charter.net/hotrods/WvsTW.jpg)



Please correct me if I'm wrong, but these do look like chevy heads.  Didn't know there was twisted version in those.  I'm pretty sure the intake face to deck angle is just about if not exactly 90 degress on the SBF heads .  Not like these shown.  Point is probably still very valid, but a better drawing would be nice.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 04, 2011, 10:01:06 am
Keep the learning going my way, guys!      :thanx:

A friend of mine has a 1971 Nova with a 383ci SBC that has some TW heads on it.  Pretty fast ride, it is.  Probably 300 or so pounds less than my Merc.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on October 04, 2011, 10:04:25 am
How about the latestest SBF heads from Brodix with the valve angle changed.

BTW a friend and I designed the Brodix 18x ports and porting program for them.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 04, 2011, 11:12:00 am
I dont even know what was done to David;s heads but Im betting it was all in the short turn and the majority was a the 2o'clock position. ANY cylinder head will gain from this, not just tw

Sure they will gain, but to what degree.  David stated the TW got noisy at higher lift and the flow seemed to stall.  After the work it was significantly better in both regards.  My 195 Canfields would not have such a problem out of the box according to several sources.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 04, 2011, 01:47:47 pm
How about the latestest SBF heads from Brodix with the valve angle changed.

BTW a friend and I designed the Brodix 18x ports and porting program for them.


How do they differ from my TW 205 heads?

Any pictorial explanations?      :naughty:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on October 04, 2011, 10:48:38 pm
Search their web site


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 04, 2011, 11:05:54 pm
I dont even know what was done to David;s heads but Im betting it was all in the short turn and the majority was a the 2o'clock position. ANY cylinder head will gain from this, not just tw

Sure they will gain, but to what degree.  David stated the TW got noisy at higher lift and the flow seemed to stall.  After the work it was significantly better in both regards.  My 195 Canfields would not have such a problem out of the box according to several sources.

my point is your heads would pick up with some work just the same cfm wise.I have read the same thing that the canfield never stalls. I see what you are saying now though. as far as his port being noisy and stalling, you have to remember he was grinding on them himself and learning. the TEA tw keeps flowing to 1.00" right?

you dont see much Brodix stuff but its usually fast when you do. the Kuntz stuff look very good. there are some photos over at yb under head porn/they changed it to "show and tell"


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 04, 2011, 11:18:49 pm
Brodix has some badass heads out, you dont see many like said above, but when you do its usually on one hell of a runner.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 04, 2011, 11:44:54 pm
I don't see anything wrong with the Brodix heads.  Just haven't heard much about them and don't like the 66cc chamber on the 185cc cnc ported ST 50 head.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 04, 2011, 11:49:32 pm
The track 1's are nice, the BF heads are down right badass


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 05, 2011, 08:38:38 am
Keep the learning going my way, guys!      :thanx:

A friend of mine has a 1971 Nova with a 383ci SBC that has some TW heads on it.  Pretty fast ride, it is.  Probably 300 or so pounds less than my Merc.

Robert that nova is probably more like 800lbs lighter


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on October 05, 2011, 10:08:57 am
You dont here much about Brodix as well as Canfield. One reason is the price. There is a reason for that there casting process and machining is more accurate than most. There parts are higher quality.
I have between me and my partner ported and flowed many heads and found the least issues with them. This includes port design / shape. In most cases these are the only aftermarket heads that that the port contours can be followed and increased 5, 10, 20% basicly untill the port wall dissapears and they flow more. Most heads are some hear a little there dont touch this area, some the port shape is a little wacked dips in the port floor etc.
My other concern is the amout boosting advertized flow data. Canfield and Brodix on my bench have always been + or - 5 cfm of there advertized data. A lot of others some minor to major pocket porting had to be done to reach there data.

Yates heads are realy impressive too. Had a set flowing 360 CFM not even half ported. Possibly the quietest flowing heads ever on my bench.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 05, 2011, 10:21:37 am
Keep the learning going my way, guys!      :thanx:

A friend of mine has a 1971 Nova with a 383ci SBC that has some TW heads on it.  Pretty fast ride, it is.  Probably 300 or so pounds less than my Merc.

Robert that nova is probably more like 800lbs lighter

Wow!      Lucky fucker!     :jawdrop:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 05, 2011, 10:24:51 am
Well to Hell with gasoline prices -- my Merc is once again my DD to and from work!

Since I have moved closer (like 4 miles) it should not be too much of a weekly gas bill.

I drove it to work (for the first time with the new engine) and man oh man is it quick.  First time I have gotten to drive it in the wee hours of the morning when there are a lot more oxygen molecules in the air compared to in the heat of the afternoon here in Anaheim this time of the year.

Mighty fun!  It has put some more zest in my middle-age once again.

 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on October 05, 2011, 10:26:04 am
Well to Hell with gasoline prices -- my Merc is once again my DD to and from work!

Since I have moved closer (like 4 miles) it should not be too much of a weekly gas bill.

I drove it to work (for the first time with the new engine) and man oh man is it quick.  First time I have gotten to drive it in the wee hours of the morning when there are a lot more oxygen molecules in the air compared to in the heat of the afternoon here in Anaheim this time of the year.

 :burnout

just dont go out getting tickets, then you wont be able to afford driving it ;)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 05, 2011, 11:15:57 am
FordRacing250   PM sent.      :347ho:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Alex on October 05, 2011, 11:31:20 am
Well to Hell with gasoline prices -- my Merc is once again my DD to and from work!

Since I have moved closer (like 4 miles) it should not be too much of a weekly gas bill.

I drove it to work (for the first time with the new engine) and man oh man is it quick.  First time I have gotten to drive it in the wee hours of the morning when there are a lot more oxygen molecules in the air compared to in the heat of the afternoon here in Anaheim this time of the year.

Mighty fun!  It has put some more zest in my middle-age once again.

I'll race you to work... me on my bike and you in your Mercury  :burnout *tire smoke ma face*

I ride 7 miles to and from work everyday. Sucks when it gets super cold out but I hate public transportation and there's no (free/cheap) parking lots where I work... and the exercise is nice plus.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 05, 2011, 12:26:19 pm
Well to Hell with gasoline prices -- my Merc is once again my DD to and from work!

Since I have moved closer (like 4 miles) it should not be too much of a weekly gas bill.

I drove it to work (for the first time with the new engine) and man oh man is it quick.  First time I have gotten to drive it in the wee hours of the morning when there are a lot more oxygen molecules in the air compared to in the heat of the afternoon here in Anaheim this time of the year.

 :burnout

just dont go out getting tickets, then you wont be able to afford driving it ;)


God forbid!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 05, 2011, 12:26:59 pm
Well to Hell with gasoline prices -- my Merc is once again my DD to and from work!

Since I have moved closer (like 4 miles) it should not be too much of a weekly gas bill.

I drove it to work (for the first time with the new engine) and man oh man is it quick.  First time I have gotten to drive it in the wee hours of the morning when there are a lot more oxygen molecules in the air compared to in the heat of the afternoon here in Anaheim this time of the year.

Mighty fun!  It has put some more zest in my middle-age once again.

I'll race you to work... me on my bike and you in your Mercury  :burnout *tire smoke ma face*

I ride 7 miles to and from work everyday. Sucks when it gets super cold out but I hate public transportation and there's no (free/cheap) parking lots where I work... and the exercise is nice plus.



Wow!

What do you do when it is snowing?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Alex on October 05, 2011, 07:12:01 pm
Well to Hell with gasoline prices -- my Merc is once again my DD to and from work!

Since I have moved closer (like 4 miles) it should not be too much of a weekly gas bill.

I drove it to work (for the first time with the new engine) and man oh man is it quick.  First time I have gotten to drive it in the wee hours of the morning when there are a lot more oxygen molecules in the air compared to in the heat of the afternoon here in Anaheim this time of the year.

Mighty fun!  It has put some more zest in my middle-age once again.

I'll race you to work... me on my bike and you in your Mercury  :burnout *tire smoke ma face*

I ride 7 miles to and from work everyday. Sucks when it gets super cold out but I hate public transportation and there's no (free/cheap) parking lots where I work... and the exercise is nice plus.



Wow!

What do you do when it is snowing?

That's when I'll take the train.. especially because of the salt that gets thrown.. nasty stuff.

The other day I went to check out the Occupy Wall Street movement, I knew it was going to storm that afternoon so I baggied my cell and headed over to Liberty Plaza (not far from the World Trade Center). On my way back it started POURING rain.. going over the Williamsburg bridge during that was so cool though (thunder was a bit scary).. I got home absolutely soaked.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 05, 2011, 07:23:19 pm
 :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: alwaysFlOoReD on October 06, 2011, 03:25:25 am
 That's a cool car! I read the first and last page, I didn't want to take the time to read it all. In the first page someone asked if it was the same or similar to a Fairlane. I own a '68 Torino and that is considered a midsize car. With me and a big block [429], the car weighs in at 3250. I'll try to read all your pages at a later date.
Cheers,

Richard


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 06, 2011, 05:34:15 am
That's a cool car! I read the first and last page, I didn't want to take the time to read it all. In the first page someone asked if it was the same or similar to a Fairlane. I own a '68 Torino and that is considered a midsize car. With me and a big block [429], the car weighs in at 3250. I'll try to read all your pages at a later date.
Cheers,

Richard


Maybe the scale that I weighed the Merc on wasn't too accurate?      :dunno



I will have to weigh it on a different scale to get a better reference.      :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 06, 2011, 09:16:58 am
lol put it on a scale while you are at the track!

then you can use online calculators based on weight and mph to guess at power


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 06, 2011, 09:45:54 am
lol put it on a scale while you are at the track!

then you can use online calculators based on weight and mph to guess at power


Most tracks have scales, huh?


If I had to throw out an intelligent guess -- I would figure around 600hp at the crank.      :naughty:


Anyone wanna piece of this?      (:Gluck:)


 :spit:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on October 06, 2011, 04:32:52 pm
Im your Huckleberry LOL :jawdrop:  :spit: have fun with your car were all glad you got it running. Some maybe jealous but who cares you saved your pennies and did what you had to do to get there. But we would like you to take it to the track perferably sooner than later.

Bam


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 06, 2011, 07:11:59 pm
It's cooling down so I'll be back to run at Irwindale in the near future.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 06, 2011, 09:43:38 pm
Im your Huckleberry LOL :jawdrop:  :spit: have fun with your car were all glad you got it running. Some maybe jealous but who cares you saved your pennies and did what you had to do to get there. But we would like you to take it to the track perferably sooner than later.

Bam


Yikes -- I know that your ride would blow past my Merc as it rolls now.      :jawdrop:

But it would be fun trying to beat you!      :party


Thanks -- I am having lots of fun with it.

I think that it would be fun at Irwindale the 1/8 mile track.

I currently have too much 1/2" rubber fuel hose on my Merc to pass a track inspection I think.

I would like to go as a spectator right now.  I am interested how guys running their street rides (on street tires) deal with a water box that I've heard at Irwindale can't be driven around!      :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lonestang95 on October 06, 2011, 10:01:05 pm
My experience the track officials Problably wouldnt even check stuff like that.  You will never have more fun with your car than racing it at the track. You will be hooked.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: GrimLX on October 06, 2011, 10:15:07 pm
My experience the track officials Problably wouldnt even check stuff like that.  You will never have more fun with your car than racing it at the track. You will be hooked.

I was going to say the same. I have been 10.90s without ever popping my hood at the tech booth. Just depends on the track you are at. A street car night usually has mellow tech.

Car looks good Merc!!



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on October 06, 2011, 10:37:41 pm
I currently have too much 1/2" rubber fuel hose on my Merc to pass a track inspection I think.

If they even look, some quick thinking should get you through. That 1/2" hose is noticeably larger than the typical 5/16-3/8" junk they are accustomed to seeing, could easily be passed off as push loc type hose.

Or you could just cover the visible fuel line with sleeve insulation. Then you are being cautious (and they can't see whats under it).

Main thing, try to keep it neat. If the car appears safe and organized, they will most likely accept it as such. If the car looks like a fire hazard, they will keep looking until they find something.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 06, 2011, 11:39:51 pm
I currently have too much 1/2" rubber fuel hose on my Merc to pass a track inspection I think.

If they even look, some quick thinking should get you through. That 1/2" hose is noticeably larger than the typical 5/16-3/8" junk they are accustomed to seeing, could easily be passed off as push loc type hose.

Or you could just cover the visible fuel line with sleeve insulation. Then you are being cautious (and they can't see whats under it).


What sort of sleeve insulation are you talking about?      :wonder:       :idea


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 06, 2011, 11:42:20 pm
My experience the track officials Problably wouldnt even check stuff like that.  You will never have more fun with your car than racing it at the track. You will be hooked.

I was going to say the same. I have been 10.90s without ever popping my hood at the tech booth. Just depends on the track you are at. A street car night usually has mellow tech.

Car looks good Merc!!




Thanks!

Nate would know because he has been to Irwindale before.

I like my street radials because I think (I hope!) that they are keeping the drive-line assembly in good working order and not broken.      :)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Red5.0 on October 06, 2011, 11:44:12 pm
Robert I just gave a friend a bunch of -8 Aeroquip push-loc hose but I dont think he is going to use it afterall. If I can get it back and you are interested, it is yours.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 06, 2011, 11:52:03 pm
Robert, Irwindale is actually pretty strict.  The guys who do their tech know what the heck their doing.  Usually you get a whole list of things you need to do and then they just let you in.  But, after a couple times they get ticked and there has been a time or two they had to talk it over.  Bakersfield is much more liberal the times I've been there.  Just don't tell them you've got 600 hp, etc, etc, etc...

The problem with street radials on a prepped track in my experience is wheel hop.  Instead of just burning out I've had wheel hop when I broke traction with street radials.  That is VERY hard on things.  If you feel wheel hop you better let out ASAP to be safe.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on October 07, 2011, 12:02:40 am
What sort of sleeve insulation are you talking about?      :wonder:       :idea

Like this:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DEI-010419/

I can usually find it at most parts stores.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 07, 2011, 12:24:39 am
Robert I just gave a friend a bunch of -8 Aeroquip push-loc hose but I dont think he is going to use it afterall. If I can get it back and you are interested, it is yours.


That stuff is strict track acceptable?

If so then that sounds good to me.

These are the fittings?  (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=off&gs_upl=76l930l1l1132l8l7l0l0l0l0l420l2009l2-3.2.1l6l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1920&bih=934&q=push+lock+fittings&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=5894843338701500698&sa=X&ei=in6OToqwG8TlsQLW0M2LAQ&ved=0CIEBEPMCMAI (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=off&gs_upl=76l930l1l1132l8l7l0l0l0l0l420l2009l2-3.2.1l6l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1920&bih=934&q=push+lock+fittings&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=5894843338701500698&sa=X&ei=in6OToqwG8TlsQLW0M2LAQ&ved=0CIEBEPMCMAI))

Those fittings are what I am using for the 1/2" rubber fuel hose with hose clamps, too.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 07, 2011, 12:30:04 am
Robert, Irwindale is actually pretty strict.  The guys who do their tech know what the heck their doing.  Usually you get a whole list of things you need to do and then they just let you in.  But, after a couple times they get ticked and there has been a time or two they had to talk it over.  Bakersfield is much more liberal the times I've been there.  Just don't tell them you've got 600 hp, etc, etc, etc...

The problem with street radials on a prepped track in my experience is wheel hop.  Instead of just burning out I've had wheel hop when I broke traction with street radials.  That is VERY hard on things.  If you feel wheel hop you better let out ASAP to be safe.


Nate -- would Irwindale accept Aeroquip push-loc hose?

I have a set of custom extra strong (more leafs than OEM) leaf springs and also a half-length "rebounder" leaf to help prevent against wheel hop.  The Merc also has a good old set of traction bars with the rubber stopper installed, too.

AFAIK I haven't had any wheel hop so far on the streets -- yes I have heard that wheel hop can break stuff rather quickly.  I sure wouldn't want it at the track!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 07, 2011, 01:49:30 am
Aeroquipt is accepted hose at any track, its the summit n jegs pushlock you have to worry about.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Red5.0 on October 07, 2011, 02:14:32 am
The Aeroquip is NHRA approved, thats why I was running it.

I will try and get it back form my friend tomorrow, last I talked to him he had no use for it. He was planning on using it in a mud drag truck but a 2nd kit cut that short lol.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on October 07, 2011, 05:44:41 am
thats a nice offer Red5.0.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 07, 2011, 09:37:44 am
The Aeroquip is NHRA approved, thats why I was running it.

I will try and get it back form my friend tomorrow, last I talked to him he had no use for it. He was planning on using it in a mud drag truck but a 2nd kit cut that short lol.


thats a nice offer Red5.0.



Very nice offer.  Good man.  Good forum member, too.      :)

I wouldn't feel right getting it for free.

Set a price that is good for you, OK?  Let me know if your friend doesn't need it after all.  Thanks!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on October 07, 2011, 11:15:53 am
Just thought I would share that a guy came over to look at my Harley I am selling.  He offered to trade me his 69 Mercury Montego Convertible.

Red with a white top.

I turned it down, but thought of you...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Red5.0 on October 07, 2011, 11:32:07 am
The Aeroquip is NHRA approved, thats why I was running it.

I will try and get it back form my friend tomorrow, last I talked to him he had no use for it. He was planning on using it in a mud drag truck but a 2nd kit cut that short lol.


thats a nice offer Red5.0.



Very nice offer.  Good man.  Good forum member, too.      :)

I wouldn't feel right getting it for free.

Set a price that is good for you, OK?  Let me know if your friend doesn't need it after all.  Thanks!

Shipping if anything is all I would need. I have no use for it and if it could help you out that would be great.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 07, 2011, 12:04:30 pm
Aeroquipt is accepted hose at any track, its the summit n jegs pushlock you have to worry about.


 :whs:

I have a set of custom extra strong (more leafs than OEM) leaf springs and also a half-length "rebounder" leaf to help prevent against wheel hop.  The Merc also has a good old set of traction bars with the rubber stopper installed, too.

AFAIK I haven't had any wheel hop so far on the streets -- yes I have heard that wheel hop can break stuff rather quickly.  I sure wouldn't want it at the track!

That will certainly help if not eliminate wheel hop.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 07, 2011, 12:27:00 pm
Just thought I would share that a guy came over to look at my Harley I am selling.  He offered to trade me his 69 Mercury Montego Convertible.

Red with a white top.

I turned it down, but thought of you...


Dude!!!!!  Convertible?!?!      :jawdrop:

It must not have been in that good condition, huh?

Cuz we both know that if it was it would be worth a mint!      :naughty:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mighty mouse on October 07, 2011, 12:39:42 pm
Just thought I would share that a guy came over to look at my Harley I am selling.  He offered to trade me his 69 Mercury Montego Convertible.

Red with a white top.

I turned it down, but thought of you...


Dude!!!!!  Convertible?!?!      :jawdrop:

It must not have been in that good condition, huh?

Cuz we both know that if it was it would be worth a mint!      :naughty:

Actually no.  It was in pretty nice shape.  He is the second owner... for real, a little old lady had it since new.  He got it at an estate auction and got it running to sell or trade. factory pait even... If I didn't already have to much stuff, I would have taken the deal.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 08, 2011, 11:56:54 pm
Hey merc, I noticed that you have claimed a number of times that your new setup has good street manners.

I have also noticed that most of things that make up your setup are things that are not generally associated with having good street manners.....ie. the low gearing with small tires, the high powerband, high stall, super vic etc. etc.

So, I was wondering how this could be.

Lets say you are at a red stop light then the light turns green. How high does the engine rev before the merc builds up enough speed to flow with traffic?

How high does is the engine revving when you "cruise" with traffic? Lets say 35mph in third gear?

Do you have to "baby" the throttle to keep from buring out when coming off of a dead stop?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: BuckeyeDemon on October 09, 2011, 08:52:04 am
we definitely need an in-car video so we can all take a ride in the merc!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 09:18:53 am
Hey merc, I noticed that you have claimed a number of times that your new setup has good street manners.

I have also noticed that most of things that make up your setup are things that are not generally associated with having good street manners.....ie. the low gearing with small tires, the high powerband, high stall, super vic etc. etc.

So, I was wondering how this could be.


Good compression, good heads, good custom camshaft designed with all of my ride's combo in mind, parts matched so it's easy for the air to enter the engine and easy to exit the engine, high stalling T/C so the engine doesn't see much load at low rpm, 4.56 rear gear to help multiply the torque the wheels see, solid engine mounts & traction bars & a welded "boxed" frame with welded sub-frame connectors to put the power to the tires is what comes to my mind right now.

I can say honestly that if the T/C was around a 4000rpm stall or less the Merc would not be performing as well on the street when you have so much stop and go traffic.  The engine would see too much heavy load (4000#) at the low-end yet I asked Cam Motion and Woody to please make this cam perform REAL good in the mid and top-end.  I told them that I have a 5000rpm stall T/C and to heck with low-end because the slipping T/C will soothe those manners!  Fuckin'-A does it ever!!!  (The only price that I'm paying is real crappy mpg!)


Lets say you are at a red stop light then the light turns green. How high does the engine rev before the merc builds up enough speed to flow with traffic?


With no police around I usually take off at 3000rpm.  Unless someone is flooring their ride I am always the first one and the leader of the pack until the next red light (after I carefully look both ways to my left and right making sure some idiot hasn't run the red light).  To just "flow with traffic" (and when police are around) I take off at 2500rpm.



How high does is the engine revving when you "cruise" with traffic? Lets say 35mph in third gear?


I don't.  Unless I'm on housing streets (25mph speed limit) -- I am cruising around at 50mph which is about 3000rpm.

Cruising at 35mph in 3rd gear is about 2100rpm.



Do you have to "baby" the throttle to keep from burning out when coming off of a dead stop?


On these street tires I certainly have to baby the throttle taking off in 1st gear.  2nd gear has a little more lee-way while 3rd gear is much more forgiving.  If I floor it abruptly all three gears of my C4 will have my tires going up in smoke and the rear end getting crazy while not accelerating any faster (and probably de-accelerating actually)!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 09:20:02 am
we definitely need an in-car video so we can all take a ride in the merc!


I am working on mounting my digital camera to make some in-car videos.  Then everyone can see how the Merc performs.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on October 09, 2011, 09:29:03 am
So what do you concider your red line?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 09:32:31 am
So what do you concider your red line?


I have my tach's bright yellow shift-light going off at 6000rpm.  At 6000rpm the Merc is really moving and really loud so while street driving I must be careful of other drivers and not too much police attention.

Since the block is not a Dart block I have my digital soft-touch rev-limiter calling the shots at 6500rpm.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on October 09, 2011, 09:39:45 am
we definitely need an in-car video so we can all take a ride in the merc!


I am working on mounting my digital camera to make some in-car videos.  Then everyone can see how the Merc performs.

I would also like to go for a ride!!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 09:48:11 am
we definitely need an in-car video so we can all take a ride in the merc!


I am working on mounting my digital camera to make some in-car videos.  Then everyone can see how the Merc performs.

I would also like to go for a ride!!


Deal!

I would really dig the GoPro camera system but the couple hundred that they want the woman hasn't agreed to, yet . . . so I am trying to piece something together to mount my old camera.     :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on October 09, 2011, 09:53:42 am
My buddy is an automotive journalist. He uses a suction cup. Big or small that thing holds everything inside and outside the car


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on October 09, 2011, 09:57:46 am
Thinking you might want to stick to eigth mile strips.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 10:10:14 am
Thinking you might want to stick to eigth mile strips.


Yes -- you know it.

My Merc is set up only for an eighth-mile blast.  It could not handle a 1/4 mile track.      :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 10:11:20 am
My buddy is an automotive journalist. He uses a suction cup. Big or small that thing holds everything inside and outside the car



Any links as to where he bought the suction cup?

And how to I securely attach my camera to the suction cup?  (Years ago it cost me $500)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: BuckeyeDemon on October 09, 2011, 10:42:29 am
is your lady incapable of trying to hold the camera steady with a view of the tach?  seems like it wouldn't be inconceivable to have a video shot and posted in an hour.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on October 09, 2011, 10:54:23 am
It is a suction cup with a threaded stub for the camera. I will get a hold of him for it.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 11:12:18 am
is your lady incapable of trying to hold the camera steady with a view of the tach?  seems like it wouldn't be inconceivable to have a video shot and posted in an hour.


She has tinnitus.  She stays far, far away from my Merc.  It's loudness hurts her ear -- where the pain and ringing sensation can last her for days.      :msorry:

I hate that ear problem that she has.  When she was younger she used to ride a motorcycle as her DD.  I told her that this Merc would at first scare her.  I said that it would make her motorcycle seem like a child's scooter.  If she didn't have this ear problem she trusts me and would give it a whirl.  The doctors so far have said that there really isn't anything that they can do for her.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 11:12:42 am
It is a suction cup with a threaded stub for the camera. I will get a hold of him for it.


Thanks!      :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on October 09, 2011, 11:29:51 am
It is a suction cup with a threaded stub for the camera. I will get a hold of him for it.


Thanks!      :rock

Ditto!  I've got an Oregon Scientific ATC3K that I've been trying to figure out how to mount.  They come with handlebar and bike-helmet mounts, but I can see it being WAY too wobbly for in-car at launch.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on October 09, 2011, 11:49:14 am
Apparently it is in here somewhere. I guess he is too busy to help me out cuz he is on TV now.. haha.

http://pointofviewcameras.ca/accessories/camera-mounts


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on October 09, 2011, 11:54:22 am
We have used it a few times. Even with a big 8 mm camera it works really good


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on October 09, 2011, 11:55:41 am
So all you have to do is threaten to punch someone in the dick and you get answers.. :orglaugh

http://pointofviewcameras.ca/panavise-windshield-mount-809.html


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 12:39:24 pm
 :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: BuckeyeDemon on October 09, 2011, 01:48:04 pm
is your lady incapable of trying to hold the camera steady with a view of the tach?  seems like it wouldn't be inconceivable to have a video shot and posted in an hour.


She has tinnitus.  She stays far, far away from my Merc.  It's loudness hurts her ear -- where the pain and ringing sensation can last her for days.      :msorry:

I hate that ear problem that she has.  When she was younger she used to ride a motorcycle as her DD.  I told her that this Merc would at first scare her.  I said that it would make her motorcycle seem like a child's scooter.  If she didn't have this ear problem she trusts me and would give it a whirl.  The doctors so far have said that there really isn't anything that they can do for her.

so no hot dates in the merc? 

i once hung a small camera from my neck and did a ride on a motorcycle.  it turned out to be a decent video.  the air above about 35 mph distorted the mic though.  the body was a nice shock absorber.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 09, 2011, 03:55:44 pm
I don't.  Unless I'm on housing streets (25mph speed limit) -- I am cruising around at 50mph which is about 3000rpm.

Cruising at 35mph in 3rd gear is about 2100rpm.


These engine speeds, the speeds that you are typically driving at, are well below the powerband, right? In other words, your engine is not making much power between 2k and 3k??


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 07:58:34 pm
I don't.  Unless I'm on housing streets (25mph speed limit) -- I am cruising around at 50mph which is about 3000rpm.

Cruising at 35mph in 3rd gear is about 2100rpm.


These engine speeds, the speeds that you are typically driving at, are well below the powerband, right? In other words, your engine is not making much power between 2k and 3k??


No.  It is a stroker 408W that has decent sized fully CNC'd ported heads, a very good camshaft, a good annular DP carb, a free-flowing Super Victor intake and some good sized LT headers with 3" collectors and all the way to the exit hole that help free up the strain of exhaling the exhaust's spent gases.

It makes lots of torque down low, mid and top end range.

It just makes the most power from 5000rpm to 65000rpm like I requested.  And at those rev's it does lots of work at a very quick rate.

The only reason why I run around at those rpms is because of my gearing and my short tires.  It has a 4.56 rear gear (because the Merc and I are heavy!) and it has 295/50-15's which are 26" tall tires.  (When these tires get flattened I will be investing in some 325/50-15's which are wider and also 28" tall)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 09, 2011, 08:41:35 pm
I have tinnitus also in my left ear.... It fucking sucks... just another thing to deal with..
too many year around loud cars, boats, machinery, guns, wind noise ect...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 09:35:23 pm
I have tinnitus also in my left ear.... It fucking sucks... just another thing to deal with..
too many year around loud cars, boats, machinery, guns, wind noise ect...


Yeah -- it sucks big time!      :bang

I so wish she could enjoy my ride with me -- but it hurts her too much.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lethal on October 09, 2011, 09:42:33 pm
would ear plugs help :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: z-adamson on October 09, 2011, 09:55:41 pm

It makes lots of torque down low, mid and top end range.

It just makes the most power from 5000rpm to 65000rpm like I requested.  And at those rev's it does lots of work at a very quick rate.

Earlier you said you have a high stalling TC so that the engine does not see much load at low RPM and now you say that it makes lots of torque down low.

Seems contradictory. I am not following you very well.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 09, 2011, 10:07:15 pm
I have tinnitus also in my left ear.... It fucking sucks... just another thing to deal with..
too many year around loud cars, boats, machinery, guns, wind noise ect...


Yeah -- it sucks big time!      :bang

I so wish she could enjoy my ride with me -- but it hurts her too much.
I dont let it interfere with doing what I love... Just the price I pay... but sometimes it bugs me so much I just wanna stab my ear. lol


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 10:20:30 pm
would ear plugs help :dunno


My woman says that she has tried that but the vibration is what hurts her ear problem.  The ear plugs won't really stop the deep sounding vibrations.

I have let her borrow my huge ear-covering shooter's ear "muffs" and she can't hear that much but the vibration sounds still hurt her ear.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 10:32:15 pm

It makes lots of torque down low, mid and top end range.

It just makes the most power from 5000rpm to 65000rpm like I requested.  And at those rev's it does lots of work at a very quick rate.

Earlier you said you have a high stalling TC so that the engine does not see much load at low RPM and now you say that it makes lots of torque down low.

Seems contradictory. I am not following you very well.




Yes you are right as I think about it it does seem contradictory.

Since I didn't pay extra to have Jim engine dyno it I don't know how much power the engine makes at certain rpm?

I won't waste my money on a chassis dyno because the high stalling T/C will skew the results pretty badly.



How about -->


If I baby the gas pedal the Merc moves like a normal car would -- with no stumbling.

But usually I am giving it a good amount of gas so with the high stalling T/C it lets the engine slip up into the mid range of rpm (3000rpm and up) rather quickly.  If while cruising around in 3rd at 3000rpm and I get mean with the gas pedal the tach needle instantly jumps up to 5800rpm and moves up from there.

Like I said I don't really know how much power it makes under 3000rpm.      :dunno

I do know that having the high stalling T/C helps my custom cam do it's intended job of making it's most power from 5000rpm to 6500rpm -- yet still retaining excellent streetability.  FYI at idle in gear it is only making 7" of manifold vacuum fully warmed up at 1050rpm.

So the high stalling T/C is smoothing out the carb (that is barely getting any air-flow at idle and off idle to get a good flow of fuel) and Super Victor's (which has a huge open plenum that doesn't help the carb's signal at low engine speeds) street performance manners.  With a lower stalling T/C the car would not move good idling around and running off-idle off of a green light.  It would stumble like real badly that no matter how good I was at tuning the carb it would still run like crap.  Believe me!

 :burnout



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 10:38:50 pm


It makes lots of torque down low, mid and top end range.

It just makes the most power from 5000rpm to 65000rpm like I requested.  And at those rev's it does lots of work at a very quick rate.

Earlier you said you have a high stalling TC so that the engine does not see much load at low RPM and now you say that it makes lots of torque down low.

Seems contradictory. I am not following you very well.



The high stalling T/C also like I said "makes the engine not see the load at a low rpm" (which it does because under 5000rpm it is slipping -- and at 2000rpm or 2500rpm it is REALLY slipping (the further from it's stall speed it is slipping more)) so that if I want in gear to get up into my powerband real quickly to accelerate like a bat out of hell the high stalling T/C will enable me to do so.

A lower stalling T/C would not allow the engine to rev up as so friggin' fast as my T/C does because it would get "bogged" down with the engine seeing the load which of course slows down the rate at which the engine can build rpm!

Ha!      ;D        That is what I've been trying to say!

 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 10:42:03 pm
 :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on October 09, 2011, 10:48:25 pm
Everybody has their own definition of 'street car'. 

Some think they need to have AC, be totally silent, and get 30mpg.
Some think, that as long as they can make it 2 miles to McDonalds on any type of fuel...  and they can con somebody into putting a license plate on it, it's a street car.

Most of us are somewhere in the middle.   :)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 10:51:47 pm
Everybody has their own definition of 'street car'.  

Some think they need to have AC, be totally silent, and get 30mpg.
Some think, that as long as they can make it 2 miles to McDonalds on any type of fuel...  and they can con somebody into putting a license plate on it, it's a street car.

Most of us are somewhere in the middle.   :)



I agree with you, Mike.

I call my Merc a street car simply because I run it on 91 octane pump gas with no fuel additives.

It is obnoxiously loud (so say my ex-neighbors), has no power windows, no power steering, no AC and gets around 5 miles to the gallon.

When I describe the Merc I always remember that BMW commercial "you have to LOVE what you drive" -- that fits the Merc and I to a "tee"!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 09, 2011, 10:58:32 pm
It helps that a round trip to my job is only 6 miles.      :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 09, 2011, 11:12:38 pm
It helps that a round trip to my job is only 6 miles.      :whistling:

Then who cares about gas mileage.  5mpg and you'll still have a lower monthly fuel bill than most.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 10, 2011, 09:10:53 am
I don't.  Unless I'm on housing streets (25mph speed limit) -- I am cruising around at 50mph which is about 3000rpm.

Cruising at 35mph in 3rd gear is about 2100rpm.


These engine speeds, the speeds that you are typically driving at, are well below the powerband, right? In other words, your engine is not making much power between 2k and 3k??

^unless the cam is way way off, I think it would be a challenge to build a conventional headed 408 without any torque, think about it



Robert, that seems all the more reason to tone down the exhaust?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 10, 2011, 10:20:15 am
I do like the sound of the Flowmasters.  I have heard that other mufflers don't sound as good.

Although at this stage in my life I think that I could live with a quieter exhaust as long as it flowed the same.  (or better!)

I've heard that some mufflers outflow others and I've also heard that they are all pretty much the same?

I don't have any track testing to base any truths to this matter.

I don't know how truthful this is -->     http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/all-ford-techboard/443707-muffler-flow-rates.html (http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/all-ford-techboard/443707-muffler-flow-rates.html)

(The first link on that page doesn't work -- the second one does.  I found interesting that the open headers they are showing making the least power?  I know that properly tuned open-headers makes for the fastest acceleration no matter what the dyno says.)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 10, 2011, 10:27:29 am
Maybe I have to figure out what sounds the best yet is quieter than my Flowmasters and is less of a restriction than the Flowmasters, too.

Dynomax?

Magnaflows?      :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 10, 2011, 10:32:29 am
By looks alone I like the Magnaflows the best.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 10, 2011, 10:58:23 am
Anyone have any thoughts about two of these?


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-12867/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-12867/)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on October 10, 2011, 11:01:10 am
Anyone have any thoughts about two of these?


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-12867/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-12867/)

how about two of these?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-24222/

i like the price better and i own some. nice beefed sound during WOT


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Alex on October 10, 2011, 11:09:26 am
Anyone have any thoughts about two of these?


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-12867/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-12867/)

how about two of these?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-24222/

i like the price better and i own some. nice beefed sound during WOT

..or how about two of these:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-640030/
.
.
.
.

*sorry had to do it  :347ho:  ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Ammosteve on October 10, 2011, 11:32:14 am
If you are wanting to quiet it down a little don't put the bullets on it.  I run those exact mufflers on my bracket car and they aren't much quieter than open headers.

I would run something more on the lines of this...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-17221/

They are straight through design and sound great.  They also come in different configurations from inlet and outlet location.  They will quiet it down at idle and cruise but will be loud at wot...

Steve


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on October 10, 2011, 11:45:32 am
Robert, just my opinion;

You like the sound, you already own the mufflers on the car, you don't race the rig for trophy nor money, not breaking any laws or rules...  why change them?  Keep what you got and enjoy the ride until something starts to fall off. :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 10, 2011, 12:42:37 pm
Robert, just my opinion;

You like the sound, you already own the mufflers on the car, you don't race the rig for trophy nor money, not breaking any laws or rules...  why change them?  Keep what you got and enjoy the ride until something starts to fall off. :dunno


Funny thing -- I put those mufflers in the cart at Summit racing and was thinking about it and a friend at work asked me why do I want my ride quieter reminding me that I like other drivers' to hear me because some of them don't see me if you know what I mean.

So thanks for the help and advice from my friends here at SBFTech but I will not replace the Flowmasters except for necessity like them rusting out which IIRC mine are SS.

 :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 10, 2011, 12:57:24 pm
Once you get to Irwindale and make some passes, you'll be looking to throw those power robbing flowmasters in the trash and get into something like a Magnaflow or Dynomax Ultra Flow Welded muffler.  I run 3" Magnaflows on my car and it is LOUD at WOT.  In my opinion they sound a lot better than the Flowmasters I ran on the old combo.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 10, 2011, 01:57:35 pm
Once you get to Irwindale and make some passes, you'll be looking to throw those power robbing flowmasters in the trash and get into something like a Magnaflow or Dynomax Ultra Flow Welded muffler.  I run 3" Magnaflows on my car and it is LOUD at WOT.  In my opinion they sound a lot better than the Flowmasters I ran on the old combo.


Which Magnaflows are you running Nate?

These?    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-12867/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-12867/)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Fordota on October 10, 2011, 03:34:25 pm
I love how flowmasters idle but I always thought it was so weird how they almost idle louder than WOT. Its like they actually get quieter and smoother.

Now I have the Mac Flowpaths and love them but they are opposite. It idles pretty darn mellow but gets nasty quick with some throttle.

They remind me of a race bullet but with a clean mellow idle.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 10, 2011, 03:49:34 pm
Once you get to Irwindale and make some passes, you'll be looking to throw those power robbing flowmasters in the trash and get into something like a Magnaflow or Dynomax Ultra Flow Welded muffler.  I run 3" Magnaflows on my car and it is LOUD at WOT.  In my opinion they sound a lot better than the Flowmasters I ran on the old combo.


Which Magnaflows are you running Nate?

These?    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-12867/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-12867/)

No, but the picture may be wrong.  I run the regular flattened out oval shaped ones.  The longer the more quiet.  Sounds good but not obnoxious at idle and part throttle.  Mash the pedal and it's LOUD!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on October 10, 2011, 03:53:07 pm
I love how flowmasters idle but I always thought it was so weird how they almost idle louder than WOT. Its like they actually get quieter and smoother.

Now I have the Mac Flowpaths and love them but they are opposite. It idles pretty darn mellow but gets nasty quick with some throttle.

They remind me of a race bullet but with a clean mellow idle.

when i was running race bullets on my 302 they were a relatively mellow idle but were just insanely aggressive sounding with any foot into the throttle.

i was running 1 3/4 to 3" LT's into 3" divorces dual race bullets dumped at the axel.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 10, 2011, 04:37:58 pm
Anyone have any thoughts about two of these?


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-12867/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-12867/)

how about two of these?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-24222/

i like the price better and i own some. nice beefed sound during WOT

..or how about two of these:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-640030/
.
.
.
.

*sorry had to do it  :347ho:  ;D


New and improved straight-thru design eliminates back-pressure.      :spit:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on October 10, 2011, 04:45:01 pm
Anyone have any thoughts about two of these?


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-12867/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-12867/)

how about two of these?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-24222/

i like the price better and i own some. nice beefed sound during WOT

..or how about two of these:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-640030/
.
.
.
.

*sorry had to do it  :347ho:  ;D


New and improved straight-thru design eliminates back-pressure.      :spit:
I cannot stand "back pressure".  I just don't see a need for it, especially after a nice burrito and a movie with a new "sweet heart".


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 10, 2011, 08:12:26 pm
problem is you are going off things you read or heard.

I like what Ammosteve suggested

your motor will sound nasty to other drivers no matter what muffler you put on it. seriously.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 10, 2011, 08:51:05 pm
problem is you are going off things you read or heard.

I like what Ammosteve suggested

your motor will sound nasty to other drivers no matter what muffler you put on it. seriously.


OK.  The ones that Ammosteve suggested are only $80 a piece.  I could wing that.

I meant earlier that the loud decibel levels I like so they aren't as quick to try and change lanes into my Merc.

What mufflers do you run?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 10, 2011, 08:54:01 pm
Guys I also think that I need to be saving up for some better tires.

I think the Nitto street radial 325/50-15's would help my poor Merc get a little more traction.

I mean seriously -- I can only imagine how bad my 60' would be at a track because these current tires go up in smoke in 1st real easy.  Like I said earlier 2nd gear is a bit more forgiving.  3rd gear is the best one for accelerating quickly as the tires are right now.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 10, 2011, 09:12:24 pm
Guys I also think that I need to be saving up for some better tires.

I think the Nitto street radial 325/50-15's would help my poor Merc get a little more traction.

I mean seriously -- I can only imagine how bad my 60' would be at a track because these current tires go up in smoke in 1st real easy.  Like I said earlier 2nd gear is a bit more forgiving.  3rd gear is the best one for accelerating quickly as the tires are right now.

Without good tires you'll just wind up frustrated with the power, gear, and stall speed you have.  I think those Nittos are the worst of the drag radials.  You need to do some research before you drop the coin.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: aussiewinza on October 10, 2011, 09:46:25 pm
i have the m/t street radials in 325/50 on a 10inch rim, im yet to try them as my cars still in bits but ive read good things about them and also the hoosiers. iv not heard many good things about the nitto other than they wear pretty well.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on October 10, 2011, 11:23:58 pm
I think those Nittos are the worst of the drag radials.  You need to do some research before you drop the coin.

We talked about this a while back. I think he wants a dual purpose tire, not a dedicated strip tire. The Nittos last longer and have better street manners than other drag radials, they just don't hook as good.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 10, 2011, 11:31:04 pm
I think those Nittos are the worst of the drag radials.  You need to do some research before you drop the coin.

We talked about this a while back.

I think he wants a dual purpose tire, not a dedicated strip tire.

 The Nittos last longer and have better street manners than other drag radials, they just don't hook as good.


Exactly.  I remember us talking about the Nittos versus the M/T tires.

IIRC -- the M/T are too dangerous in the rain, they wear out too quickly on the street and they pick up road crap too easily for a DD that my Merc is.  Otherwise I would spend the coin on the M/T instead of the Nittos.

Although as far as miles I just halved my yearly mileage because I have moved closer to work.

I wonder how it really is driving the M/T in the rain if I seriously baby the gas pedal?

I don't have any experience with them but I am able to seriously baby step the gas pedal . . .   :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 10, 2011, 11:38:53 pm
i have the m/t street radials in 325/50 on a 10inch rim, im yet to try them as my cars still in bits but ive read good things about them and also the hoosiers. iv not heard many good things about the nitto other than they wear pretty well.


These?     http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MTT-3757R/?rtype=10 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MTT-3757R/?rtype=10)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 11, 2011, 12:09:51 am
I have to go with safety for the street -- I will have to get the Nitto's because I do drive the Merc in the rain.  Here in CA some of the other drivers are idiots so I have to maintain some sort of traction in the rain that the M/T will not have to stay out of the idiots' harm's way.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NIT-180810/?rtype=10 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NIT-180810/?rtype=10)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on October 11, 2011, 12:10:53 am
I wonder how it really is driving the M/T in the rain if I seriously baby the gas pedal?

Its somewhere between bad and horrible. Even the Nittos will have ill wet manners, just not as bad. No reduced tread tire will ever match a true street radial in adverse conditions.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on October 11, 2011, 12:16:38 am
My experience with driving DOTs in the rain...   tread wear is a bitch.  I toasted a new set just driving 50 miles in the rain.
This was a long time ago, so maybe tire compound technology has improved. :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on October 11, 2011, 05:06:53 am
My experience with driving DOTs in the rain...   tread wear is a bitch.  I toasted a new set just driving 50 miles in the rain.
This was a long time ago, so maybe tire compound technology has improved. :dunno

Why/how does driving in the rain increase tread wear?   :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jasonn on October 11, 2011, 07:53:01 am
Just buy some cheap radials for the street.  Then just pick up some bone yard wheels and put some slicks on for racing.  Believe me, NOTHING will hook on  the street.  I have 31x18.5-15 Hoosier quick time pros on my one 408, and they STILL do not hook on the street.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 11, 2011, 08:52:07 am
I have no clue why but contradicting what people say here, my nittos worked very good in the rain. I could lay down a 125shot, in the rain! there is no other tire that can do that. they are good STREET tires

for the track, you want some spare wheels and mount some slicks on them

that is a very good question, how can rain make a tire wear faster? and in 50 miles at that?

as far as having a 31x18.5x15 quicktime pro and not hooking on the street, there are suspension issues that need to be addressed. manual trans are not very street friendly if you are trying to holeshot somebody


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on October 11, 2011, 09:56:31 am
My uneducated guess would be that the tire never had full contact or traction and spun most of the way home?
The rubber is softer so that alone is a wear factor.  Add rain...    :dunno

I did not have traction issues either.  It stuck pretty good IMO and considering the rain.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jasonn on October 11, 2011, 11:49:03 am

as far as having a 31x18.5x15 quicktime pro and not hooking on the street, there are suspension issues that need to be addressed. manual trans are not very street friendly if you are trying to holeshot somebody

Hmm, 1.42 60 ft/s might say otherwise.  I guess I should have been a bit more clear when I said you will not hook up on the street.  What I should have said was, if you have ANY kind of power, you will not hook on the street.  If you hooking up on the street, especially in the rain with I don't care WHAT tire, then you have MAJOR engine tuning issues.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Ammosteve on October 11, 2011, 12:50:01 pm
 Drag radials are horrible on wet pavement...even if you are easy with the gas pedal...it doesn't take much for them get away from you.  One of our guys put his car in the ditch on his way home when a shower popped up.

The compound isn't the problem....little to no tread on a wide tire is.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on October 11, 2011, 03:35:05 pm
Regular radials are far superior on the street to drag radials.  They don't get cut as easily.  They don't wear out as quickly.  They do better in the rain.  You can do burnouts without worrying about killing your high dollar tires. 

Real drag tires (slicks) work better than any kind of drag radial at the track...  especially marginally prepped ones that you'll generally see on test and tune days.

Using real street radials on one set of wheels for street use and slicks on another set of wheels is what makes the most sense.  You've got what works best on the street, and what works best on the track.  As a bonus, you'll save money in the long run.

Slicks used 2-3 times a year at the track will last several years.  In this time, you would probably burn through 2-3 sets of drag radials, while having non-optimized dragstrip times. 

To maximize my slick's life, I spray the entire tire, tread and all with a heavy coat of silicone tire shine, and store them in a cool, dark place in the off-season.  The tire shine shields them from oxygen and ozone.  The dark place (blankets work) shields them from light.  The cool place shields them from heat.

My current tires have been in use for several years now, and still work great.  They are still soft, have no cracks, and work just fine.  I've seen drag slicks last 8-9 years when cared for like this.

Get some slicks for that Mercury, and see what it's worth at the track!  You're already set up for it.  If you don't, you've just wasted all that engine money, as you'll never truly feel what you've got. 

Good Luck!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lonestang95 on October 11, 2011, 04:08:29 pm
Nice write up there MIke. I was in Bob Kurgans shop one day befoe he left Byron, he told me that if you can hook with drag radials they will be faster than a set of biased ply slicks. I imagine that is because the radials dont expand as much as bias ply tires. Also arent radials lighter weight than bias ply?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on October 11, 2011, 04:14:55 pm
Also arent radials lighter weight than bias ply?
I don't believe so.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Bam54 on October 11, 2011, 04:27:33 pm
Slicks are lighter but you waste some of the power in the side walls.

Bam


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 11, 2011, 04:38:14 pm
I have no clue why but contradicting what people say here, my nittos worked very good in the rain. I could lay down a 125shot, in the rain! there is no other tire that can do that. they are good STREET tires

for the track, you want some spare wheels and mount some slicks on them

that is a very good question, how can rain make a tire wear faster? and in 50 miles at that?

as far as having a 31x18.5x15 quicktime pro and not hooking on the street, there are suspension issues that need to be addressed. manual trans are not very street friendly if you are trying to holeshot somebody

I've drawn my conclusion from what my good buddy has used on his supercharged '93 Cobra.  The Nittos didn't hook that well on the street (much better than a regular radial though) and were garbage at the track even before the addition of the supercharger.

He now runs MT drag radials and they are clearly a set in the right direction.  However, I doubt he has ever driven that car in the rain from the day he bought it bone stock with 6,000'ish miles on the clock.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on October 11, 2011, 04:51:03 pm
Nice write up there MIke. I was in Bob Kurgans shop one day befoe he left Byron, he told me that if you can hook with drag radials they will be faster than a set of biased ply slicks. I imagine that is because the radials dont expand as much as bias ply tires. Also arent radials lighter weight than bias ply?

Radials have less rolling resistance than slicks, but they don't hook as well.

IF the track has killer prep and you have an automatic (no shock loads), they -can- be faster.

However, for those of us who don't always race on perfectly prepped/groomed tracks, and don't have a doctoral degree in chassis setup, slicks work far better, and are more consistent.  Plus, once a radial breaks traction, they generally just get blown off, and the run is aborted. 

For 98% of the regular guys out there racing on regular tracks, slicks simply work better. 


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 12, 2011, 08:32:50 am
I should have said the NITTO worked in the rain. lol it didnt even work at the track. you cant shock them they just go up in smoke but will lay it down from a 5mph roll. that is the only dr that you can get home safely in the rain(if they still have tread). that is the only thing the tire has going for it, but its alot better than plain radials for DD use. for the track the nittos suck; DD use, a nice compromise. understand what Im saying here?

if you are talking about street racing, slicks are best with alot of suspension tuning. yes there are cars out there that can put it down on the street. (these arent weather friendly)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on October 12, 2011, 09:08:23 am
I addition to what was said below, I also reduce the air pressure down to around 3-5 psi to relax the rubber.  Plus, I would think less air pressure forces less possibly damaging atmospheric gases through the tire. 

It's just what I do to prolong the life of the rubber.  Take it for what it's worth.  :)

Regular radials are far superior on the street to drag radials.  They don't get cut as easily.  They don't wear out as quickly.  They do better in the rain.  You can do burnouts without worrying about killing your high dollar tires. 

Real drag tires (slicks) work better than any kind of drag radial at the track...  especially marginally prepped ones that you'll generally see on test and tune days.

Using real street radials on one set of wheels for street use and slicks on another set of wheels is what makes the most sense.  You've got what works best on the street, and what works best on the track.  As a bonus, you'll save money in the long run.

Slicks used 2-3 times a year at the track will last several years.  In this time, you would probably burn through 2-3 sets of drag radials, while having non-optimized dragstrip times. 

To maximize my slick's life, I spray the entire tire, tread and all with a heavy coat of silicone tire shine, and store them in a cool, dark place in the off-season.  The tire shine shields them from oxygen and ozone.  The dark place (blankets work) shields them from light.  The cool place shields them from heat.

My current tires have been in use for several years now, and still work great.  They are still soft, have no cracks, and work just fine.  I've seen drag slicks last 8-9 years when cared for like this.

Get some slicks for that Mercury, and see what it's worth at the track!  You're already set up for it.  If you don't, you've just wasted all that engine money, as you'll never truly feel what you've got. 

Good Luck!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 09:50:36 am
I addition to what was said below, I also reduce the air pressure down to around 3-5 psi to relax the rubber.  Plus, I would think less air pressure forces less possibly damaging atmospheric gases through the tire. 

It's just what I do to prolong the life of the rubber.  Take it for what it's worth.  :)

Regular radials are far superior on the street to drag radials.  They don't get cut as easily.  They don't wear out as quickly.  They do better in the rain.  You can do burnouts without worrying about killing your high dollar tires. 

Real drag tires (slicks) work better than any kind of drag radial at the track...  especially marginally prepped ones that you'll generally see on test and tune days.

Using real street radials on one set of wheels for street use and slicks on another set of wheels is what makes the most sense.  You've got what works best on the street, and what works best on the track.  As a bonus, you'll save money in the long run.

Slicks used 2-3 times a year at the track will last several years.  In this time, you would probably burn through 2-3 sets of drag radials, while having non-optimized dragstrip times. 

To maximize my slick's life, I spray the entire tire, tread and all with a heavy coat of silicone tire shine, and store them in a cool, dark place in the off-season.  The tire shine shields them from oxygen and ozone.  The dark place (blankets work) shields them from light.  The cool place shields them from heat.

My current tires have been in use for several years now, and still work great.  They are still soft, have no cracks, and work just fine.  I've seen drag slicks last 8-9 years when cared for like this.

Get some slicks for that Mercury, and see what it's worth at the track!  You're already set up for it.  If you don't, you've just wasted all that engine money, as you'll never truly feel what you've got. 

Good Luck!


On racing slicks -- does lowering the air pressure allow them to be able to "grow" more at high speeds.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 09:59:01 am
I should have said the NITTO worked in the rain. lol it didnt even work at the track. you cant shock them they just go up in smoke but will lay it down from a 5mph roll. that is the only dr that you can get home safely in the rain(if they still have tread). that is the only thing the tire has going for it, but its alot better than plain radials for DD use. for the track the nittos suck; DD use, a nice compromise. understand what Im saying here?


Yes -- I hear you.  Thanks to you and the other members who have given me a good insightful handle on tires for the street and the track.

I like the "laying down from a 5 mph roll".  Soon I will buy some Nittos.  I don't mind babying 1st gear a bit to roll out some to be able to have some fun.  Rain safety is top of my list of importance because the Merc is my DD rain or shine.



if you are talking about street racing, slicks are best with alot of suspension tuning. yes there are cars out there that can put it down on the street. (these arent weather friendly)


Thanks but the Merc is too loud and too fast now.  I used to play around some with the old 363W but this 408W is too fast.  It's easy to be doubling the speed limit (and beyond!  LOL!!!) in a short amount of time with the 408W at WOT.  Those street racing days for me are over -- I can bet that if caught the Merc would be crushed and scrapped by law enforcement.  Not going to be happening so if someone wants to race I will tell them "let's meet at Irwindale".


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on October 12, 2011, 10:23:25 am

 if someone wants to race I will tell them "let's meet at Irwindale".


All the more reason to get some seat/track time in that sucker!   :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 12, 2011, 10:38:57 am
the Merc is my DD rain or shine.

But you only drive 6 miles a day...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 10:40:21 am
the Merc is my DD rain or shine.

But you only drive 6 miles a day...


Won't matter if it's raining and I have slick M/T D.O.T.'s.  6 miles is plenty of distance to get in big trouble quick.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on October 12, 2011, 10:42:56 am
so if someone wants to race I will tell them "let's meet at Irwindale".

So....  Buy a set of slicks, install them on a cheap set of wheels, and go feel the full power of your car for the very first time.  You'll be hooked!  

Or...  Are you just a bullshitter?    :whistling:    :orglaugh

No sense on spending that kind of money on an engine, only to never be able to feel its full power.  Nittos won't cut it.  You'll just spend all your money on an expensive DD tire that will wear out quickly, and still spin all over the place.  

Real street tires for the street.  Slicks for the track.  It's what works best, and is the cheapest way to go in the long run.  



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 12:18:26 pm
so if someone wants to race I will tell them "let's meet at Irwindale".

So....  Buy a set of slicks, install them on a cheap set of wheels, and go feel the full power of your car for the very first time.  You'll be hooked!  

Or...  Are you just a bullshitter?    :whistling:    :orglaugh

No sense on spending that kind of money on an engine, only to never be able to feel its full power.  Nittos won't cut it.  You'll just spend all your money on an expensive DD tire that will wear out quickly, and still spin all over the place.  

Real street tires for the street.  Slicks for the track.  It's what works best, and is the cheapest way to go in the long run.  




Since it's my DD and my only car the best tire (right now!) that it will use are the Nitto's.

Putting real slicks on it opens up the proverbial can of whup ass allowing parts to wear out much quicker than I can afford at this stage in my life.  Honestly.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 12, 2011, 12:21:29 pm
Not going to be happening so if someone wants to race I will tell them "let's meet at Irwindale".

This is EXACTLY what I tell people.  I don't think I've ever had anyone that wanted to play against my car on the street say they've been to the track or continue to harass me after that. 

About a month ago I was cruising around in the Mustang when a new Camaro came up on my bumper real hard and stayed on my rear like I was a hot chick.  Then cut a car off to get next to me and got on it.  At the next light I told him I go to the track and have run 11.38 at just over 120 on motor at Bakersfield.  He said,"Well I can't cover that".  Went from having that I'm soooo cool look to looking embarrassed.  :loser


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on October 12, 2011, 12:22:58 pm
so if someone wants to race I will tell them "let's meet at Irwindale".

So....  Buy a set of slicks, install them on a cheap set of wheels, and go feel the full power of your car for the very first time.  You'll be hooked!  

Or...  Are you just a bullshitter?    :whistling:    :orglaugh

No sense on spending that kind of money on an engine, only to never be able to feel its full power.  Nittos won't cut it.  You'll just spend all your money on an expensive DD tire that will wear out quickly, and still spin all over the place.  

Real street tires for the street.  Slicks for the track.  It's what works best, and is the cheapest way to go in the long run.  




Since it's my DD and my only car the best tire (right now!) that it will use are the Nitto's.

Putting real slicks on it opens up the proverbial can of whup ass allowing parts to wear out much quicker than I can afford at this stage in my life.  Honestly.

If it's an automatic, and it's launched off the foot brake, you're not going to be wearing out  parts any faster than if you were driving it on the street.

You can be all 'car show' and talk shit to guys, saying "Let's take them to Irwindale"...  while not really meaning it...  or you can be a true hot rodder.  

Personally, I get tired of hearing all about a car that may as well have a stock 302 in it.  
What do they say????   All hat, and no Cowboy?   ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: woody on October 12, 2011, 12:24:15 pm
All hat, No cattle


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: mxracer652 on October 12, 2011, 12:37:29 pm
Wait.  You live 3 miles from work & are worried about not having a car?   :orglaugh
You can walk there in 40 minutes.  You could ride a bike there in 15.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 01:12:24 pm

If it's an automatic, and it's launched off the foot brake, you're not going to be wearing out  parts any faster than if you were driving it on the street.

Mike my friend -- my trans guy disagrees with you and the way that he described the difference makes sense to me.  (Basically he says that the more leverage the wheels can use because of increased traction abilities will put more of a load on the trans and drive-line.)


You can be all 'car show' and talk shit to guys, saying "Let's take them to Irwindale"...  while not really meaning it...



Mike -- I mean to race at Irwindale -- but with Nitto's.

I see your point though -- especially if the other guy who I declined a street race to but suggested Irwindale might use M/T streets or race slicks.

My point is that I need to have my tires being the "weakest link" over any parts of my trans or drive-line.

It's all about money, man!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 01:13:31 pm
Wait.  You live 3 miles from work & are worried about not having a car?   :orglaugh
You can walk there in 40 minutes.  You could ride a bike there in 15.


I took the bus for eight months saving up for this 408W.

Fuck the bus -- I am not looking forward to taking it anymore.

Bicycles IMHO are too dangerous on the streets of Anaheim.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on October 12, 2011, 01:19:03 pm
Wait.  You live 3 miles from work & are worried about not having a car?   :orglaugh
You can walk there in 40 minutes.  You could ride a bike there in 15.


I took the bus for eight months saving up for this 408W.

Fuck the bus -- I am not looking forward to taking it anymore.

Bicycles IMHO are too dangerous on the streets of Anaheim.
You cannot pedal fast enough to get away from the mugger.  LOL


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 01:27:39 pm
Wait.  You live 3 miles from work & are worried about not having a car?   :orglaugh
You can walk there in 40 minutes.  You could ride a bike there in 15.


I took the bus for eight months saving up for this 408W.

Fuck the bus -- I am not looking forward to taking it anymore.

Bicycles IMHO are too dangerous on the streets of Anaheim.
You cannot pedal fast enough to get away from the mugger.  LOL

Unless he has a gun my knife would make him change his mind about mugging me.      :347ho:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on October 12, 2011, 01:29:46 pm
Wait.  You live 3 miles from work & are worried about not having a car?   :orglaugh
You can walk there in 40 minutes.  You could ride a bike there in 15.


I took the bus for eight months saving up for this 408W.

Fuck the bus -- I am not looking forward to taking it anymore.

Bicycles IMHO are too dangerous on the streets of Anaheim.
You cannot pedal fast enough to get away from the mugger.  LOL

Unless he has a gun my knife would make him change his mind about mugging me.      :347ho:
All he/she has to do is toss a stick into your spinning spokes...  you'd be involved in a face to cement incident. ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: garsten on October 12, 2011, 01:42:05 pm

Mike -- I mean to race at Irwindale -- but with Nitto's.


Robert, do you own or have access to an NHRA approved helmet? you'll need one if you plan on running 13's.

cheers, claude


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 01:47:57 pm

Mike -- I mean to race at Irwindale -- but with Nitto's.


Robert, do you own or have access to an NHRA approved helmet? you'll need one if you plan on running 13's.

cheers, claude


Irwindale is an 1/8mi track.  Gearing-wise I can't run a 1/4mi.  Does that change your advice?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Matt Paul on October 12, 2011, 02:10:28 pm
Robert don't u think driveing around on the street with a 4k plus stall is going to cook the trans fluid pretty quick? I mean u set red line at 6500rpm when u shift and take convertor slippage into account your car is going to shift like a croch rocket and u will be through all 3 gears in the first 100ft :wonder:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on October 12, 2011, 02:13:29 pm
Robert don't u think driveing around on the street with a 4k plus stall is going to cook the trans fluid pretty quick? I mean u set red line at 6500rpm when u shift and take convertor slippage into account your car is going to shift like a croch rocket and u will be through all 3 gears in the first 100ft :wonder:
:wonder:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 02:17:23 pm
Robert don't u think driveing around on the street with a 4k plus stall is going to cook the trans fluid pretty quick?


I have the trans fluid routed thru a huge trans fluid radiator style cooler and it also is routed thru my engine's coolant radiator, too.  Even going WOT the engine coolant hasn't gotten hotter than 190*.


I mean u set red line at 6500rpm when u shift and take convertor slippage into account your car is going to shift like a croch rocket and u will be through all 3 gears in the first 100ft :wonder:


Yep!  Even on these crappy street tires the Merc goes thru the gears REALLY quickly!  It is sooooooo much fun to drive.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on October 12, 2011, 02:23:02 pm
It's all about money, man!


Then, why did you spend all that cash on a big engine...  if you don't even plan on being able to feel it's full power, or see what it can do? 

You need slicks, or you'll just be disappointed. 

The more I hear, the more 'car show' I think you are. 

No sense in having a loose converter and gears like that if you aren't going to install some tires that will allow you to hook it up.  Without slicks, you may as well have a stock rebuilt engine. 



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on October 12, 2011, 02:28:14 pm
It's all about money, man!


Then, why did you spend all that cash on a big engine...  if you don't even plan on being able to feel it's full power, or see what it can do? 

You need slicks, or you'll just be disappointed. 

The more I hear, the more 'car show' I think you are. 

No sense in having a loose converter and gears like that if you aren't going to install some tires that will allow you to hook it up.  Without slicks, you may as well have a stock rebuilt engine. 



plus jaun!!

robert...here i have a deal for ya!

i have a fordstrokers 306 5.4 rod 3" cast crank 28oz balance that i'm too broke to put together besides stock parts. should put down around 300hp to the wheels. i'll trade you my motor for your 408 because god knows i might be too broke to have a proper motor, but sonny jesus knows i'm gonna race that bastard!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Matt Paul on October 12, 2011, 02:37:40 pm
Robert don't u think driveing around on the street with a 4k plus stall is going to cook the trans fluid pretty quick?


I have the trans fluid routed thru a huge trans fluid radiator style cooler and it also is routed thru my engine's coolant radiator, too.  Even going WOT the engine coolant hasn't gotten hotter than 190*.


I mean u set red line at 6500rpm when u shift and take convertor slippage into account your car is going to shift like a croch rocket and u will be through :disgust: all 3 gears in the first 100ft :wonder:


Yep!  Even on these crappy street tires the Merc goes thru the gears REALLY quickly!  It is sooooooo much fun to drive.

Wow!!!!!!! Don't want to rain on your prade but that is not going to help you cool your trans fluid OMH, you need to find a new trans guy and start all over this is not looking good for your engine or your trans this thing is going to sound like a engine just free reving and not going to nowhere


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: garsten on October 12, 2011, 02:39:51 pm

Mike -- I mean to race at Irwindale -- but with Nitto's.


Robert, do you own or have access to an NHRA approved helmet? you'll need one if you plan on running 13's.

cheers, claude


Irwindale is an 1/8mi track.  Gearing-wise I can't run a 1/4mi.  Does that change your advice?

slightly, if you run the equivalent of a 13 second pass in the 1/8 mile, you will need a helmet.  according to my NHRA rule book, that's faster than an 8.6 second 1/8
 mile pass.

cheers, claude


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 02:51:56 pm
It's all about money, man!


Then, why did you spend all that cash on a big engine...  if you don't even plan on being able to feel it's full power, or see what it can do? 

You need slicks, or you'll just be disappointed. 

The more I hear, the more 'car show' I think you are. 

No sense in having a loose converter and gears like that if you aren't going to install some tires that will allow you to hook it up.  Without slicks, you may as well have a stock rebuilt engine. 




Because -- remember from day one -- I want the fastest street DD machine that I can afford.  I never wanted to build a track car nor I have I ever said that I will.  Lots of you guys keep urging me to do that but I have said it a million different ways that I CAN'T AFFORD TO!  IT IS MY DAILY DRIVER AND ONLY CAR.      :party

The big engine, the high stalling T/C and the gearing is to accelerate the fastest that I can afford.  It's that simple.

A high stalling T/C and the big engine and the gearing that the Merc has is not for show believe you me.  It makes me happy daily -- going and coming from work.       :fu:

Those parts work "out the gate" and "off of the line" -- true.

They also work VERY well at any speed when I have the urge to start accelerating like I mean business.  I am not disappointed in any way concerning what Jim built for me and how it performs.  I am betting that the larger Nittos' will make the ride very happy and safe for me.

 :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Alex on October 12, 2011, 02:57:09 pm
plus jaun!!


lol.. I like that  ;D


Not like you have to drop your clutch at 6k and shock the shit outta your driveline... lets see that Merc boogie.. don't forget to hook up the video cam  :burnout

But when it comes down to it.. your money, your toy.. enjoy it the way you want.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 02:57:18 pm
It's all about money, man!


Then, why did you spend all that cash on a big engine...  if you don't even plan on being able to feel it's full power, or see what it can do? 

You need slicks, or you'll just be disappointed. 

The more I hear, the more 'car show' I think you are. 

No sense in having a loose converter and gears like that if you aren't going to install some tires that will allow you to hook it up.  Without slicks, you may as well have a stock rebuilt engine. 



plus jaun!!

robert...here i have a deal for ya!

i have a fordstrokers 306 5.4 rod 3" cast crank 28oz balance that i'm too broke to put together besides stock parts. should put down around 300hp to the wheels. i'll trade you my motor for your 408 because god knows i might be too broke to have a proper motor, but sonny jesus knows i'm gonna race that bastard!


Not going to happen.

All kidding aside -- if you can't afford to cobble together a 306ci than how could you afford a 408W that you're "gonna race that bastard!"???  If you can't afford to piece a 306ci together -- but you're going to race it anyway -- what will you do when it breaks something?  That is what I'm talking about.

What will you do when it tears up your Detroit Trak-Lock?

Or rips up your trans?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 03:01:25 pm
Robert don't u think driveing around on the street with a 4k plus stall is going to cook the trans fluid pretty quick?


I have the trans fluid routed thru a huge trans fluid radiator style cooler and it also is routed thru my engine's coolant radiator, too.  Even going WOT the engine coolant hasn't gotten hotter than 190*.


I mean u set red line at 6500rpm when u shift and take convertor slippage into account your car is going to shift like a croch rocket and u will be through :disgust: all 3 gears in the first 100ft :wonder:


Yep!  Even on these crappy street tires the Merc goes thru the gears REALLY quickly!  It is sooooooo much fun to drive.

Wow!!!!!!! Don't want to rain on your prade but that is not going to help you cool your trans fluid OMH, you need to find a new trans guy and start all over this is not looking good for your engine or your trans this thing is going to sound like a engine just free reving and not going to nowhere


Me and my trans guy disagree with you.

He has not steered me wrong since I first did business with him years ago.

We have been doing this with the old 363W with a FMX trans, an AOD and this current built C4 trans.

The transmissions have far outlasted my man's 1 year warranty.

I have been happy with doing business with him.

He also wrenches and lets his twenty-something son run their dragster (has a Powerglide) that runs high 7's in the quarter.  (Twin turbo job)

He knows what he is doing -- for the track and the street.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 03:02:10 pm

Mike -- I mean to race at Irwindale -- but with Nitto's.


Robert, do you own or have access to an NHRA approved helmet? you'll need one if you plan on running 13's.

cheers, claude


Irwindale is an 1/8mi track.  Gearing-wise I can't run a 1/4mi.  Does that change your advice?

slightly, if you run the equivalent of a 13 second pass in the 1/8 mile, you will need a helmet.  according to my NHRA rule book, that's faster than an 8.6 second 1/8
 mile pass.

cheers, claude


OK.

No I don't have a NHRA approved helmet.      :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on October 12, 2011, 03:02:45 pm
Booooo, suck it up and take it to the track.   ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Matt Paul on October 12, 2011, 03:18:52 pm
Robert don't u think driveing around on the street with a 4k plus stall is going to cook the trans fluid pretty quick?


I have the trans fluid routed thru a huge trans fluid radiator style cooler and it also is routed thru my engine's coolant radiator, too.  Even going WOT the engine coolant hasn't gotten hotter than 190*.


I mean u set red line at 6500rpm when u shift and take convertor slippage into account your car is going to shift like a croch rocket and u will be through :disgust: all 3 gears in the first 100ft :wonder:


Yep!  Even on these crappy street tires the Merc goes thru the gears REALLY quickly!  It is sooooooo much fun to drive.

Wow!!!!!!! Don't want to rain on your prade but that is not going to help you cool your trans fluid OMH, you need to find a new trans guy and start all over this is not looking good for your engine or your trans this thing is going to sound like a engine just free reving and not going to nowhere


Me and my trans guy disagree with you.

He has not steered me wrong since I first did business with him years ago.

We have been doing this with the old 363W with a FMX trans, an AOD and this current built C4 trans.

The transmissions have far outlasted my man's 1 year warranty.

I have been happy with doing business with him.

He also wrenches and lets his twenty-something son run their dragster (has a Powerglide) that runs high 7's in the quarter.  (Twin turbo job)

He knows what he is doing -- for the track and the street.


A twin turbo dragster running high 7's that right there tells me he is not to smart, shit I run mid 8's on small block with 1kit and double the weight of his dragster!!!!!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on October 12, 2011, 03:37:40 pm
It's all about money, man!


Then, why did you spend all that cash on a big engine...  if you don't even plan on being able to feel it's full power, or see what it can do? 

You need slicks, or you'll just be disappointed. 

The more I hear, the more 'car show' I think you are. 

No sense in having a loose converter and gears like that if you aren't going to install some tires that will allow you to hook it up.  Without slicks, you may as well have a stock rebuilt engine. 



plus jaun!!

robert...here i have a deal for ya!

i have a fordstrokers 306 5.4 rod 3" cast crank 28oz balance that i'm too broke to put together besides stock parts. should put down around 300hp to the wheels. i'll trade you my motor for your 408 because god knows i might be too broke to have a proper motor, but sonny jesus knows i'm gonna race that bastard!


Not going to happen.

All kidding aside -- if you can't afford to cobble together a 306ci than how could you afford a 408W that you're "gonna race that bastard!"???  If you can't afford to piece a 306ci together -- but you're going to race it anyway -- what will you do when it breaks something?  That is what I'm talking about.

What will you do when it tears up your Detroit Trak-Lock?

Or rips up your trans?

if you aint racin you aint makin money!

i can afford it, i just have priorities. i think you are confusing your motor/car with a max effort set up. you can casually race your car and not have issues and if something breaks it'll usually be minor unless you have something tragically go wrong.

just saying, take your junk and go race the bastard


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 03:55:33 pm
Robert don't u think driveing around on the street with a 4k plus stall is going to cook the trans fluid pretty quick?


I have the trans fluid routed thru a huge trans fluid radiator style cooler and it also is routed thru my engine's coolant radiator, too.  Even going WOT the engine coolant hasn't gotten hotter than 190*.


I mean u set red line at 6500rpm when u shift and take convertor slippage into account your car is going to shift like a croch rocket and u will be through :disgust: all 3 gears in the first 100ft :wonder:


Yep!  Even on these crappy street tires the Merc goes thru the gears REALLY quickly!  It is sooooooo much fun to drive.

Wow!!!!!!! Don't want to rain on your prade but that is not going to help you cool your trans fluid OMH, you need to find a new trans guy and start all over this is not looking good for your engine or your trans this thing is going to sound like a engine just free reving and not going to nowhere


Me and my trans guy disagree with you.

He has not steered me wrong since I first did business with him years ago.

We have been doing this with the old 363W with a FMX trans, an AOD and this current built C4 trans.

The transmissions have far outlasted my man's 1 year warranty.

I have been happy with doing business with him.

He also wrenches and lets his twenty-something son run their dragster (has a Powerglide) that runs high 7's in the quarter.  (Twin turbo job)

He knows what he is doing -- for the track and the street.


A twin turbo dragster running high 7's that right there tells me he is not to smart, shit I run mid 8's on small block with 1kit and double the weight of his dragster!!!!!


Easy, man.

The youngster is learning how to race.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 04:00:34 pm
Here was my plan and it has made me real happy and is dependable.

I don't have to drive a slow-ass Toyota or a Mazda or whatever as my daily driver.

I get to drive a pretty darn fast street car everyday.

Not like some people whose daily driver doesn't have that much power yet they are dreaming of the times when they can drive their track car a few minutes a week or a month or a little bit every race season.

While those people are wishing and daydreaming I am driving my Merc everyday like it's stolen.      :naughty:


A question -- how many members here race their DD (and only car) at the track?      :wonder:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on October 12, 2011, 04:12:13 pm
Here was my plan and it has made me real happy and is dependable.

I don't have to drive a slow-ass Toyota or a Mazda or whatever as my daily driver.

I get to drive a pretty darn fast street car everyday.

Not like some people whose daily driver doesn't have that much power yet they are dreaming of the times when they can drive their track car a few minutes a week or a month or a little bit every race season.

While those people are wishing and daydreaming I am driving my Merc everyday like it's stolen.      :naughty:


A question -- how many members here race their DD (and only car) at the track?      :wonder:

i HAVE done that. not anymore since i've come up in the world a bit from where i was, now with multiple vehicles. i was younger, one car and drove the piss out of my car and raced it a few times. and guess what, never broke! it was my DD and i had no one else to help me out at the time.

dont get me wrong, i've had a few small failures that needed to be addressed


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on October 12, 2011, 04:20:14 pm
A question -- how many members here race their DD (and only car) at the track?      :wonder:

If I lived 3 miles from my job, I'd DD my Stang AND run it at the track...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: garsten on October 12, 2011, 05:00:58 pm

Not like some people whose daily driver doesn't have that much power yet they are dreaming of the times when they can drive their track car a few minutes a week or a month or a little bit every race season.

While those people are wishing and daydreaming I am driving my Merc everyday like it's stolen.      :naughty:

A question -- how many members here race their DD (and only car) at the track?      :wonder:

some of us go to the track so often, we don't have to dream about it or talk about it, we actually go out and do it.

when push came to shove, i did drive my DD 99 Acura TL to the track and drag raced it in two events, not test and tunes, but in the local NHRA summit racing series.  it runs 16.50's if i remember correctly.

my 68 f100 is also a fun weekend warrior, but since i do drag race regularly and have also taken the 68 down the track, i no longer feel the urge to drive anything like i stole it.  i have too much to lose.

and at this point in time, i can say my acura has made a faster quarter mile pass than your big bad merc.

i am sure you are as happy doing what you are doing as i am doing what i do.  i can afford more than some, less than other.

best wishes, claude


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Red5.0 on October 12, 2011, 05:04:59 pm
I race my DD and only car at the track. And I drive there, minimum of 100 miles each way. If I break at the track im fukked.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on October 12, 2011, 05:07:28 pm
Owning and driving the quickest DD in a 10 mile radius is still on my "to do" list, but may never come to be...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: quick26 on October 12, 2011, 05:33:37 pm
Here was my plan and it has made me real happy and is dependable.

I don't have to drive a slow-ass Toyota or a Mazda or whatever as my daily driver.

I get to drive a pretty darn fast street car everyday.

Not like some people whose daily driver doesn't have that much power yet they are dreaming of the times when they can drive their track car a few minutes a week or a month or a little bit every race season.

While those people are wishing and daydreaming I am driving my Merc everyday like it's stolen.      :naughty:


A question -- how many members here race their DD (and only car) at the track?      :wonder:

i daily mine and take it to the strip and road course.  its not my only ride, however, i treat it as such.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 12, 2011, 06:26:01 pm
I dont know if he'll need a helmet his first time...




Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on October 12, 2011, 06:28:27 pm
I dont know if he'll need a helmet his first time...



Rich makes me wear my helmet all the time...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on October 12, 2011, 06:52:37 pm

A question -- how many members here race their DD (and only car) at the track?      :wonder:


When my only (running) car was my '91 LX 5.0, I raced it.  It was stock though, not a killer 408W.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: dennis112 on October 12, 2011, 06:59:51 pm
I don't know if he'll even need a helmet his first time...


Fixed it for you.  :naughty:

Typically most NHRA tracks require a SNELL 2000 or 2005 helmet at 13.99 and faster in the quarter, or 7.49 and faster on 1/8th mile tracks.  A 7.49 in the 1/8th is a pretty fast time for a big street car--it calculates out to an 11.77 1/4 mile pass.  Unless the track has its own additional rules, he should be OK without at Irwindale.  


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 12, 2011, 07:28:13 pm
I used to always take my DD's to the track and run them... Never had any problems except for smoking many sets of tires..
I know how fast my DD super duty is at the track... I should say slow...
I know how quick my old mustang was at the track.
Hell I remember running my moms T-bird at TI back in the day...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: garsten on October 12, 2011, 08:33:42 pm
this is from irwindale's web site, under the heading attire...hope it helps.

All racers and passengers are required to wear long pants, shoes and a shirt with sleeves. Racers competing with cars quicker than 8.59 (1/8 mile) are required to wear an approved helmet (See NHRA Rulebook). No passengers are allowed in vehicles faster than 8.59

i've broken this rule several times and have gotten away with it, but the track knows my car and truck.  it is always best to follow the rules.

cheers, claude


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 08:41:14 pm
this is from irwindale's web site, under the heading attire...hope it helps.

All racers and passengers are required to wear long pants, shoes and a shirt with sleeves. Racers competing with cars quicker than 8.59 (1/8 mile) are required to wear an approved helmet (See NHRA Rulebook). No passengers are allowed in vehicles faster than 8.59

i've broken this rule several times and have gotten away with it, but the track knows my car and truck.  it is always best to follow the rules.

cheers, claude


Thanks to you and my other helpful friends here at SBFTech.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on October 12, 2011, 09:08:22 pm
You old farts are all sissies!!

Me and my rice burner buddies drive our street cars 6 hours to run quarter mile for the weekend them drive them home!!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on October 12, 2011, 09:14:14 pm
You old farts are all sissies!!

Me and my rice burner buddies drive our street cars 6 hours to run quarter mile for the weekend them drive them home!!

Better watch out Robert. I think he may be after your title.   :wonder:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 12, 2011, 09:16:33 pm
Fontana is usually open for street legal drags on the weekends.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 09:17:28 pm
You old farts are all sissies!!

Me and my rice burner buddies drive our street cars 6 hours to run quarter mile for the weekend them drive them home!!


What does your ride run?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 09:18:17 pm
Fontana is usually open for street legal drags on the weekends.


What is that class?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 12, 2011, 09:21:54 pm
Fontana is usually open for street legal drags on the weekends.


What is that class?
Just regular track day for street legal cars... You will get some drag cars there to test but usually just regular people racing whatever they got.. I will see when the next one is.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 12, 2011, 09:27:00 pm
here you need a helmet at 8.69 1/8. at 7.49 you need a 6pt. roll bar, 6.49 you need 10pt cage among alot of things

I bet his first few passes are maybe mid 9's with 2.80 60'
complete pedal fest and a learning process

he will still get hooked and its MUCH safer than the street

if the car were to break on regular radials, it wouldve broke on the street anyway. when I was younger I drove cars to the track all the time and didnt even worry about it. I will admit now I make sure I have money for a tow if needed. you should probably always have a few bucks on you just in case


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on October 12, 2011, 09:28:39 pm



What does your ride run?

My truck does camper duty

edited for drama reasons


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 12, 2011, 09:31:16 pm
oct 15th n 29th at fontana


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on October 12, 2011, 09:34:37 pm
You guys get to race on the 29th???

Nov 1st my snow tires go on the trucks


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on October 12, 2011, 09:38:32 pm
You guys get to race on the 29th???

Nov 1st my snow tires go on the trucks

That sucks! The only time the tracks close here is for Christmas.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 12, 2011, 09:40:45 pm
December 3rd is the last race of the year....


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on October 12, 2011, 09:42:45 pm
Robert, you're over-thinking this.

Running at the track is really no big deal.  

Hold the gas and brake at the same time, then punch it and let go of the brake when you see the last yellow come on.  By the time you hit around 90mph, it's all over.  It's really no different than busting through a couple gears on the street.

Just install some slicks so you can see what the car is capable of.  Using Nittos will just leave you frustrated.  

Try not to connect too much drama and prestige to drag racing.  You just floor the gas and see how fast it goes.  Don't over think it.  


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 12, 2011, 09:47:16 pm
Fontana
http://www.autoclubspeedway.com/Tickets-Events/Event-Calendar.aspx
Irwindale
http://www.toyotaspeedwayatirwindale.com/dragstrip/dragsched.html


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 12, 2011, 10:40:41 pm

I bet his first few passes are maybe mid 9's with 2.80 60'
complete pedal fest and a learning process


Don't know about my 60' but I've gone faster than 9's on the street with these crappy 26" street radials.  (At least according to mapquest it was an 1/8mi.   :dunno)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lonestang95 on October 13, 2011, 02:32:38 am
Here was my plan and it has made me real happy and is dependable.

I don't have to drive a slow-ass Toyota or a Mazda or whatever as my daily driver.

I get to drive a pretty darn fast street car everyday.

Not like some people whose daily driver doesn't have that much power yet they are dreaming of the times when they can drive their track car a few minutes a week or a month or a little bit every race season.

While those people are wishing and daydreaming I am driving my Merc everyday like it's stolen.      :naughty:


A question -- how many members here race their DD (and only car) at the track?      :wonder:
I just won the compact brackets last sunday at the strip with my bone stock 06 bmw 325xi, 5000 rpm awd launches all day lol


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: lonestang95 on October 13, 2011, 02:40:37 am
I also raced the only ride 6.0 diesel sd every chance i got with a high horse tune on it. No head studs lol I know i was taking a risk but dont regret it one bit.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 13, 2011, 07:12:57 am
does your car even hook on the street in first gear?

I guess maybe its the stickshift guys that have trouble hooking when they first start racing


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 13, 2011, 09:47:56 am
does your car even hook on the street in first gear?

I guess maybe its the stickshift guys that have trouble hooking when they first start racing


It's harder for guys with a clutch on the street for sure (and IMHO at the track, too!).

As it sits right now the Merc can't really hook good in 1st gear.  I have to roll out some.

The high stalling T/C helps band-aid those 1st gear traction issues because once I put it into 2nd gear I can tromp down on it some and I can instantly get some rpm.  ("powerband-street" heaven!)

 :burnout



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 13, 2011, 10:01:07 am
Then it sound like you don't need 4.56's,  at least for the street.  Maybe get you mileage up to 3 mpg :)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: eckertd on October 13, 2011, 10:23:18 am
Don't fear the gear...gear the fear!   ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 13, 2011, 11:25:34 am
Then it sound like you don't need 4.56's,  at least for the street.  Maybe get you mileage up to 3 mpg :)


Yes I do need the 4.56 rear gear -- it helps immensely making the heavy Merc and I accelerate as quick as we can -- from a roll (be it 5 mph roll or 20 mph roll or a 50 mph roll).  (We both weigh about 4000lbs)

We get 5 miles to the gallon right now.      :347ho:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: quick26 on October 13, 2011, 11:28:46 am
When I had my lil tuner car, I drove it daily and beat the ever living piss out of it on the track. Leaving on the 2 step and just side stepping the clutch.  7.46 was the best I got out of it and 28 mpg lol.  Still nothing like the old v8 hence the return to the stang.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 13, 2011, 11:57:21 am
When I had my lil tuner car, I drove it daily and beat the ever living piss out of it on the track. Leaving on the 2 step and just side stepping the clutch.  7.46 was the best I got out of it and 28 mpg lol.  Still nothing like the old v8 hence the return to the stang.


Exactly.

The power levels that the 408W is making it's easier to trash the trans or the driveline with slicks.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Matt Paul on October 13, 2011, 12:27:25 pm
Then it sound like you don't need 4.56's,  at least for the street.  Maybe get you mileage up to 3 mpg :)


Yes I do need the 4.56 rear gear -- it helps immensely making the heavy Merc and I accelerate as quick as we can -- from a roll (be it 5 mph roll or 20 mph roll or a 50 mph roll).  (We both weigh about 4000lbs)

We get 5 miles to the gallon right now.      :347ho:

A 408 makes enough torgue that have u ever though a low gear might make the car quicker if you use to much gear u maybe blowing through the power band to quickly and actually be going slower. My car went faster with a 4:10 then it did with a 4:56


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: garsten on October 13, 2011, 12:35:54 pm

We get 5 miles to the gallon right now.      :347ho:


you need to buy some carbon credits from Al Gore.

different strokes for different folks.  if my daily driver was older than I am, i'd be thinking about upgrading!

cheers, claude


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 13, 2011, 12:42:17 pm
Then it sound like you don't need 4.56's,  at least for the street.  Maybe get you mileage up to 3 mpg :)


Yes I do need the 4.56 rear gear -- it helps immensely making the heavy Merc and I accelerate as quick as we can -- from a roll (be it 5 mph roll or 20 mph roll or a 50 mph roll).  (We both weigh about 4000lbs)

We get 5 miles to the gallon right now.      :347ho:

A 408 makes enough torgue that have u ever though a low gear might make the car quicker if you use to much gear u maybe blowing through the power band to quickly and actually be going slower. My car went faster with a 4:10 then it did with a 4:56


Maybe, I don't know.  You are giving me a thought to ponder.  Thanks.      :wonder:

I do know that the engine's powerband is from 5000rpm to 6500rpm as the cam was made for that.

I would have to talk with Woody and Bob at Cam Motion.  The camshaft was designed around the entire combo of the Merc -- including the 4.56 rear gear.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 13, 2011, 12:45:09 pm

We get 5 miles to the gallon right now.      :347ho:


you need to buy some carbon credits from Al Gore.

different strokes for different folks.  if my daily driver was older than I am, i'd be thinking about upgrading!

cheers, claude


I hear what you are saying.

Actually the Merc was made in June of '69 -- I was born in March of '69 -- so technically I am older than it by a couple of months.      :orglaugh

I don't think that the newer car bodies look better than my Merc.  And where I am living in SoCal -- the laws are real strict about cars and smog regulations.  (Unless they are real old like the Merc)      :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: turbo2256 on October 13, 2011, 10:06:56 pm
Then it sound like you don't need 4.56's,  at least for the street.  Maybe get you mileage up to 3 mpg :)


Yes I do need the 4.56 rear gear -- it helps immensely making the heavy Merc and I accelerate as quick as we can -- from a roll (be it 5 mph roll or 20 mph roll or a 50 mph roll).  (We both weigh about 4000lbs)
 

We get 5 miles to the gallon right now.      :347ho:

A 408 makes enough torgue that have u ever though a low gear might make the car quicker if you use to much gear u maybe blowing through the power band to quickly and actually be going slower. My car went faster with a 4:10 then it did with a 4:56

I hear that our shop car is a 73 steel body camero with a tublar frame welded directly to the existing floor pan..no light weight car. Runs a 427 stroked SBC 3.70 gears, turbo 400, 31" slicks shifts at 5800 turns 9.21 in the quarter.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 13, 2011, 10:47:15 pm
Then it sound like you don't need 4.56's,  at least for the street.  Maybe get you mileage up to 3 mpg :)


Yes I do need the 4.56 rear gear -- it helps immensely making the heavy Merc and I accelerate as quick as we can -- from a roll (be it 5 mph roll or 20 mph roll or a 50 mph roll).  (We both weigh about 4000lbs)
 

We get 5 miles to the gallon right now.      :347ho:

A 408 makes enough torgue that have u ever though a low gear might make the car quicker if you use to much gear u maybe blowing through the power band to quickly and actually be going slower. My car went faster with a 4:10 then it did with a 4:56

I hear that our shop car is a 73 steel body camero with a tublar frame welded directly to the existing floor pan..no light weight car. Runs a 427 stroked SBC 3.70 gears, turbo 400, 31" slicks shifts at 5800 turns 9.21 in the quarter.




Not N/A and/or weighs a lot less than the Merc.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 13, 2011, 11:56:20 pm
Robert you should read this thread over from the begining LOL its a broken record!!!!!!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jtmustang on October 14, 2011, 02:46:13 am
Robert you should read this thread over from the begining LOL its a broken record!!!!!!

x2...run the fucker then let us know.... ;D














Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on October 14, 2011, 08:57:43 am
Robert has a 'car show' personality.  He wants to tell everybody how great his car is, but doesn't ever back it up.

Robert, you've pretty much lost all your man points.  ALL TALK. 

Foot braking a naturally aspirated, automatic equipped car through the 1/8 mile on slicks isn't going to kill it, and you know it. 

You just want to flap your jaws, and pretend llike you know something.

You're pretty much a ricer with a Ford.

I'm done with you.

Good Luck



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on October 14, 2011, 09:13:11 am
and seriously. how do you know how BA your motor and stall is unless you take your car and run it?

what if you run a 15.1? seat of the pants feel is relative and is in no way measurable but only by ones personal experience and even then...unless you do it everyday you'd still be off.

take it to the track at least one time and get an idea of at least where you are at?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:38:00 am
Robert has a 'car show' personality.  He wants to tell everybody how great his car is, but doesn't ever back it up.

Robert, you've pretty much lost all your man points.  ALL TALK. 

Foot braking a naturally aspirated, automatic equipped car through the 1/8 mile on slicks isn't going to kill it, and you know it. 

You just want to flap your jaws, and pretend llike you know something.

You're pretty much a ricer with a Ford.

I'm done with you.

Good Luck




Wow!      :spit:

All the years that I've been here and that's how you talk to me, Mike?       :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:40:45 am
and seriously. how do you know how BA your motor and stall is unless you take your car and run it?

what if you run a 15.1? seat of the pants feel is relative and is in no way measurable but only by ones personal experience and even then...unless you do it everyday you'd still be off.


How many different cars/motocycles/boats do you think I could have been in since I'm a few months away from being 43 years old?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on October 14, 2011, 09:43:31 am

All the years that I've been here and that's how you talk to me, Mike?       :thanx:

Robert, trying to help you is like attempting to nail Jello to a tree. 

As I said...

Good Luck


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:44:04 am
Robert you should read this thread over from the begining LOL its a broken record!!!!!!


That is because some of you guys don't let it rest and continuously harp and nag at me about taking the Merc to the track.  Who is the broken record?

This last time is because I asked a question hoping to get some help about what is the best yet safest radial for the street.  I didn't mention the track.  I should have known better because that started another round of "take it to the track".


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:46:27 am

All the years that I've been here and that's how you talk to me, Mike?       :thanx:

Robert, trying to help you is like attempting to nail Jello to a tree.  

As I said...

Good Luck


I haven't been asking anyone for help at the track.

Likewise.

How many times do I have to say I don't want to go to the track for now?

I remember one thread I had asked advice about the 1/8 mile track and what to expect.

All the other times I haven't been asking about track advice.  I understand that most of you like going to the track.  Cool.

I obviously am different.

Think outside of your box and understand that some people (like me) have just as much fun on the street as a DD as you do at the track.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on October 14, 2011, 09:48:28 am
Robert you should read this thread over from the begining LOL its a broken record!!!!!!


That is because some of you guys don't let it rest and continuously harp and nag at me about taking the Merc to the track.  Who is the broken record?


You talk, talk, talk...  and never back yourself up.  You have a car with a 5k stall converter and 4.56 gear...  and brag about how quick it is...  when all it really is, is a tire burner.  

A 300hp 306 in your car would burn the tires with that setup.  

Quit talking shit about how fast your car is...  without PROVING it.

This is a performance site, not a place for car show queens to blab all their bullshit.  It's quite irritating.

Shit or get off the pot.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on October 14, 2011, 09:51:25 am
Robert you should read this thread over from the begining LOL its a broken record!!!!!!


That is because some of you guys don't let it rest and continuously harp and nag at me about taking the Merc to the track.  Who is the broken record?


You talk, talk, talk...  and never back yourself up.  You have a car with a 5k stall converter and 4.56 gear...  and brag about how quick it is...  when all it really is, is a tire burner.  

A 300hp 306 in your car would burn the tires with that setup.  

Quit talking shit about how fast your car is...  without PROVING it.

This is a performance site, not a place for car show queens to blab all their bullshit.  It's quite irritating.

Shit or get off the pot.



see robert....offer still stands, wanna trade motors? :pimp

i'll even drive out and deliver mine and pick up yours :drink


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:58:07 am


This is a performance site,


Exactly.  It is a performance site.  That term "performance" however does not limit ones ride to the track.  You know better than that.

Funny how you are being a total dick on my thread.

You are turning into a drama queen.

I mean come on dude -- no one is forcing you to read and post on my construction thread.

If it is that irritating that you wouldn't really keep reading it and then posting how irritated you are?





So now lets talk about you and what I deem a bit of a load of B.S. since you are being a DB to me on my thread.

Read your signature.  It was brought up before by one of the moderators here and I concur.

You are leaving the reader of your signature to believe that you run 10's on motor while actually those times are with how much spray?

But when a guy who doesn't know you like I do wouldn't come to that conclusion from how your signature is written.

You need to fix that, Mike.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:59:37 am
Robert you should read this thread over from the begining LOL its a broken record!!!!!!


That is because some of you guys don't let it rest and continuously harp and nag at me about taking the Merc to the track.  Who is the broken record?


You talk, talk, talk...  and never back yourself up.  You have a car with a 5k stall converter and 4.56 gear...  and brag about how quick it is...  when all it really is, is a tire burner.  

A 300hp 306 in your car would burn the tires with that setup.  

Quit talking shit about how fast your car is...  without PROVING it.

This is a performance site, not a place for car show queens to blab all their bullshit.  It's quite irritating.

Shit or get off the pot.



see robert....offer still stands, wanna trade motors? :pimp

i'll even drive out and deliver mine and pick up yours :drink


Fix your junk and take a ride out here.

I'd love to meet you guys in person.

And my Merc would love to meet you, too.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on October 14, 2011, 10:03:03 am
Robert you should read this thread over from the begining LOL its a broken record!!!!!!


That is because some of you guys don't let it rest and continuously harp and nag at me about taking the Merc to the track.  Who is the broken record?


You talk, talk, talk...  and never back yourself up.  You have a car with a 5k stall converter and 4.56 gear...  and brag about how quick it is...  when all it really is, is a tire burner.  

A 300hp 306 in your car would burn the tires with that setup.  

Quit talking shit about how fast your car is...  without PROVING it.

This is a performance site, not a place for car show queens to blab all their bullshit.  It's quite irritating.

Shit or get off the pot.



see robert....offer still stands, wanna trade motors? :pimp

i'll even drive out and deliver mine and pick up yours :drink


Fix your junk and take a ride out here.

I'd love to meet you guys in person.

And my Merc would love to meet you, too.

soon as the truck is done i would...so you are agreeing to a motor trade? :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 10:04:05 am
What are you smoking, man?      :whistling:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on October 14, 2011, 10:06:01 am
What are you smoking, man?      :whistling:
you left your answer open to interpretation...no smoking in this neck of the woods, i like to hook up at launch! :loser


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 10:08:16 am
What are you smoking, man?      :whistling:
you left your answer open to interpretation...no smoking in this neck of the woods, i like to hook up at launch! :loser


Come on, dude?

Who (in their right mind) would trade a built 408W for a 306ci?      :waiting:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 10:15:16 am
Unless it was Rich's that can turn to 10K or so.      :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on October 14, 2011, 10:17:19 am
What are you smoking, man?      :whistling:
you left your answer open to interpretation...no smoking in this neck of the woods, i like to hook up at launch! :loser


Come on, dude?

Who (in their right mind) would trade a built 408W for a 306ci?      :waiting:

someone who only needs 306ci. commuting to and from work and burning tires.   :yes:

im just busting your balls robert, but please remember....the offer is still open ;)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on October 14, 2011, 10:17:50 am
Unless it was Rich's that can turn to 10K or so.      :burnout

this one will be turnin 7500-8000...close enough?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 10:22:02 am
What are you smoking, man?      :whistling:
you left your answer open to interpretation...no smoking in this neck of the woods, i like to hook up at launch! :loser


Come on, dude?

Who (in their right mind) would trade a built 408W for a 306ci?      :waiting:

someone who only needs 306ci. commuting to and from work and burning tires.   :yes:

im just busting your balls robert, but please remember....the offer is still open ;)


No problem.

I like the 408W and couldn't trade it nor sell it.      :msorry:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: oldmanjoe on October 14, 2011, 10:38:01 am
 :spit:  :lmaoflr: :lmaoflr: :lmaoflr:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on October 14, 2011, 05:10:59 pm
You are leaving the reader of your signature to believe that you run 10's on motor while actually those times are with how much spray?

But when a guy who doesn't know you like I do wouldn't come to that conclusion from how your signature is written.

You need to fix that, Mike.

Huh?  Where in his signature does it say NA or naturally aspirated?  If anyone reads his signature and ASSumes it's NA, that is their own stupid mistake.

Sorry to hear you don't want to take it to the track.  I guess some of us just can't relate.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on October 14, 2011, 05:25:54 pm
Damn Robert.. your taking a beating around here.  :drink

As an outside party I see both sides... What you do with your car is your choice. You are 150% happy with driving it 10 miles a day like you stole it. Trust me.. I understand being short on cash and not wanting to break anything being its your only car.

On the flip side. We know you have one hell of an engine.... we know it makes great power for what it is. We know you have a custom billet cam, 4.56 gears, 5500rpm stall converter, we know you have to baby the throttle in 1st so the tires don't go up in smoke and we know 3rd gear is more forgiving.

We also know your car is  land yacht and that while your butt o meter says its super fast... but o meter lies.. In your case all you care about is that your ass is happy. Good for you! Were glad your happy.. But you/your car hasn't proven anything yet.. And that's fine as it makes you happy...  you just tend to come off the wrong way sometimes in your posts... There are plenty of people here that can talk trash because they have a badass cars and have numbers to back it up... That's the difference I see... you have no desire to go to the track at the moment and that's ok... but you come off sometimes as you have a 10 sec DD and that it's the new sliced bread.. 

And while it is awesome.. and I'm sure its quicker then a lot of things on the street.. no one really knows because you have no proof ya know? Just trying to give you some perspective.. your getting beat up enough.. we don't need a mob  :chair


Keep fighting the good fight Robert  :party


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 05:39:53 pm
You are leaving the reader of your signature to believe that you run 10's on motor while actually those times are with how much spray?

But when a guy who doesn't know you like I do wouldn't come to that conclusion from how your signature is written.

You need to fix that, Mike.

Huh?  Where in his signature does it say NA or naturally aspirated?  If anyone reads his signature and ASSumes it's NA, that is their own stupid mistake.


Because his signature is worded "pump gas".


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 05:42:53 pm
Damn Robert.. your taking a beating around here.  :drink

As an outside party I see both sides... What you do with your car is your choice. You are 150% happy with driving it 10 miles a day like you stole it. Trust me.. I understand being short on cash and not wanting to break anything being its your only car.

On the flip side. We know you have one hell of an engine.... we know it makes great power for what it is. We know you have a custom billet cam, 4.56 gears, 5500rpm stall converter, we know you have to baby the throttle in 1st so the tires don't go up in smoke and we know 3rd gear is more forgiving.

We also know your car is  land yacht and that while your butt o meter says its super fast... but o meter lies.. In your case all you care about is that your ass is happy. Good for you! Were glad your happy.. But you/your car hasn't proven anything yet.. And that's fine as it makes you happy...  you just tend to come off the wrong way sometimes in your posts... There are plenty of people here that can talk trash because they have a badass cars and have numbers to back it up... That's the difference I see... you have no desire to go to the track at the moment and that's ok... but you come off sometimes as you have a 10 sec DD and that it's the new sliced bread.. 

And while it is awesome.. and I'm sure its quicker then a lot of things on the street.. no one really knows because you have no proof ya know? Just trying to give you some perspective.. your getting beat up enough.. we don't need a mob  :chair


Keep fighting the good fight Robert  :party


Thank you my friend.

I have said many times that it is fast for me.

I don't say that I really believe that it could beat your guys' rides.  I might joke around but in all seriousness I know better.

If I had to lay money I think that it would run 11 something.  That is all.

Like I said earlier and I will say again -- it is fast for me and that it makes me really happy.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 05:59:33 pm
Here is a short almost 5 minute in-car video.

Please have some patience because I am obviously learning my camera and how to do this.

Watch the video thru (even when the fucking camera changes perspective - OK?) because it will change back to the right view thru the movie.  Towards 3/4 of the movie I get on it REAL good and the Merc moves pretty good for as was mentioned earlier being a "land yacht".

(I tried using Movie Maker to rotate the fucking camera's view perspective and sometimes it worked and you'll see that it didn't do it right.)

*I am uploading the video to Photobucket right now.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FivePointOhh on October 14, 2011, 06:00:12 pm
Damn Robert.. your taking a beating around here.  :drink

As an outside party I see both sides... What you do with your car is your choice. You are 150% happy with driving it 10 miles a day like you stole it. Trust me.. I understand being short on cash and not wanting to break anything being its your only car.

On the flip side. We know you have one hell of an engine.... we know it makes great power for what it is. We know you have a custom billet cam, 4.56 gears, 5500rpm stall converter, we know you have to baby the throttle in 1st so the tires don't go up in smoke and we know 3rd gear is more forgiving.

We also know your car is  land yacht and that while your butt o meter says its super fast... but o meter lies.. In your case all you care about is that your ass is happy. Good for you! Were glad your happy.. But you/your car hasn't proven anything yet.. And that's fine as it makes you happy...  you just tend to come off the wrong way sometimes in your posts... There are plenty of people here that can talk trash because they have a badass cars and have numbers to back it up... That's the difference I see... you have no desire to go to the track at the moment and that's ok... but you come off sometimes as you have a 10 sec DD and that it's the new sliced bread..  

And while it is awesome.. and I'm sure its quicker then a lot of things on the street.. no one really knows because you have no proof ya know? Just trying to give you some perspective.. your getting beat up enough.. we don't need a mob  :chair


Keep fighting the good fight Robert  :party


Thank you my friend.

I have said many times that it is fast for me.

I don't say that I really believe that it could beat your guys' rides.  I might joke around but in all seriousness I know better.

If I had to lay money I think that it would run 11 something.  That is all.

Like I said earlier and I will say again -- it is fast for me and that it makes me really happy.

i dont know if you know how fast 11 something really is


think about if, if you ride in someones car on the street and it feels like 11 something potential then it probably has a 10 second potential at the track

and that is all considering you've rode in enough cars consistantly that you can effectively judge by feel only how fast something is

street judging is so far off its scary


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 06:10:40 pm
http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/Schwing.jpg (http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/Schwing.jpg)


http://s610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/?action=view&current=Mercdrivingvideogood10-14-11.mp4 (http://s610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/?action=view&current=Mercdrivingvideogood10-14-11.mp4)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on October 14, 2011, 06:12:34 pm
Okay...  the first link isn't what I was expecting.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 14, 2011, 06:25:43 pm
Wow that will make you dizzy.... Where the video ended is that over by the horse track?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on October 14, 2011, 06:32:23 pm
I couldn't watch the entire vid...   sort of feel closed in.
I do want to say;  "that is every bit of putting a grin on my face too".


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 06:32:59 pm
Wow that will make you dizzy.... Where the video ended is that over by the horse track?


East and Ball roads, Anaheim.

Sorry about the friggin' video.

Next time I am going to mount the suction cup on inside of the front windshield and see if I can make a better video.


P.S. -- Just to give everyone a perspective -- the shift light is set at 6000rpm.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 06:34:16 pm
I couldn't watch the entire vid...   sort of feel closed in.
I do want to say;  "that is every bit of putting a grin on my face too".


You HAVE to otherwise you will miss a good part.

The friggin' camera pans in and pans out and the friggin' software rotates the image CW and CCW but it rights itself and shows you good of what the fudge I've been so happy about the Merc.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 14, 2011, 06:36:32 pm
Interesting vid.  Gotta get that fixed.  Maybe that's skewing my impression.  But, if those were WOT sprints there near the end, then 11's... I don't think so...  sorry.  

Fix that exhaust leak...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on October 14, 2011, 06:40:52 pm
There should be a setting to undo the automatic rotation on your camera.. I would look into that.. I'm dizzy and my head hurts.


If that's how you drive "fast" your gonna run 17's  ;D :naughty:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 14, 2011, 06:41:34 pm
Wow that will make you dizzy.... Where the video ended is that over by the horse track?


East and Ball roads, Anaheim.

Sorry about the friggin' video.

Next time I am going to mount the suction cup on inside of the front windshield and see if I can make a better video.


P.S. -- Just to give everyone a perspective -- the shift light is set at 6000rpm.
I was thinking euclid/brookhurst side of town....but the very end looked like Los Al area by the track. and yea dizzy is an under statment.. lol


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on October 14, 2011, 06:44:10 pm
yea dizzy is an under statment.. lol

I was sitting here rotating my head with the vid.. even in the middle when it rotated 3 directions in 3 seconds..Then I started laughing at myself.. and Did it again the next time....  :loser


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 14, 2011, 06:56:32 pm
Lets see here, 4,000 lbs BUT 4.56 gears, 5,000 stall convertor, and a strong 408.  The video shows it's a beast on the street and certainly making good power.  :burnout  Have fun with it.  Tim and I are around when you are ready to take it to the track.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 14, 2011, 07:00:04 pm
Interesting vid.  Gotta get that fixed.  Maybe that's skewing my impression.  But, if those were WOT sprints there near the end, then 11's... I don't think so...  sorry.  

Fix that exhaust leak...

I'm almost tempted to put some money down on it running an 11 if you gave Robert, Tim, and I five trips to the track and my tires with it.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 347HO on October 14, 2011, 07:07:16 pm

I'm almost tempted to put some money down on it running an 11 if you gave Robert, Tim, and I five trips to the track and my tires with it.
All I need is his mph Nate.  I could give a shit what it ETs since it's not a Drag Race Car.
He goes out the kitchen > 122mph (1320')...  I'd be friggin absolutely impressed.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 14, 2011, 07:07:44 pm
With time, tuning, slicks.  Sure.  
Not in that street trim.  I'd be a little more positive the phil and say he might crack a 15, as is.  


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 14, 2011, 07:11:38 pm

I'm almost tempted to put some money down on it running an 11 if you gave Robert, Tim, and I five trips to the track and my tires with it.
All I need is his mph Nate.  I could give a shit what it ETs since it's not a Drag Race Car.
He goes out the kitchen > 122mph (1320')...  I'd be friggin absolutely impressed.

I'd fall over if it had a mph anything like that as it is.  It'll have to get some slicks or good drag radials before I go getting excited about anything it'll do at the strip.  The mph will be doo doo if he has to let out in first, second, and possibly third.  At that point it'd dangerous and a waste of time.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on October 14, 2011, 07:12:05 pm
With time, tuning, slicks.  Sure.  
Not in that street trim.  I'd be a little more positive the phil and say he might crack a 15, as is.  

I was being sarcastic.. my first time I ran 17's... damn that 3+sec 60' :loser


And Robert just for comparison. A friend took his SRT-4 to the track for the first time.. first time he has been down the track.. it runs mid 13's stock... he didn't get into the 14's... I didn't get a chance.. it broke first. Go figure.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: oldmanjoe on October 14, 2011, 07:12:59 pm
 :jawdrop: That`s not even 11`s in the 1/8


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on October 14, 2011, 07:19:37 pm
You are leaving the reader of your signature to believe that you run 10's on motor while actually those times are with how much spray?

But when a guy who doesn't know you like I do wouldn't come to that conclusion from how your signature is written.

You need to fix that, Mike.

Huh?  Where in his signature does it say NA or naturally aspirated?  If anyone reads his signature and ASSumes it's NA, that is their own stupid mistake.
I


Because his signature is worded "pump gas".

That's your reason?  Does "pump gas" = NA to you?  People run pump gas in NA, NOS and forced induction setups.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Alex on October 14, 2011, 07:26:34 pm
OK lets get to the important stuff... who's your "cop" friend Robert..  :whistling:  ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 14, 2011, 07:27:18 pm
With time, tuning, slicks.  Sure.  
Not in that street trim.  I'd be a little more positive the phil and say he might crack a 15, as is.  

I feel it would do better in the 1/4 mile (Famoso) in street trim then the 1/8 (Iwindale) in street trim.  I don't see Robert driving a couple hours out to Bakersfield, so Irwindale is the only realistic track. 

At Famoso I feel it would quickly run better than your prediction as Robert got used to how much throttle it can take going down the track.  In the 1/8 it'll depend on how good the track is that day to determine if it runs better than a 9.60. 


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: juiced coupe on October 14, 2011, 07:30:57 pm
Does "pump gas" = NA to you?  People run pump gas in NA, NOS and forced induction setups.

Not to get in the middle of your guys argument, but Mike drives his car on pump gas and uses the good stuff at the track. Same as me.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 14, 2011, 07:31:48 pm
That's your reason?  Does "pump gas" = NA to you?  People run pump gas in NA, NOS and forced induction setups.

Mike knows he left the nitrous part out on purpose.  I'm pretty sure he doesn't even use straight up pump gas when he makes a nitrous run.  Mike is a sneaky reformed street racer.  ;)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 14, 2011, 07:33:09 pm
OK lets get to the important stuff... who's your "cop" friend Robert..  :whistling:  ;D
I know who mine are.... and I will admit that it helps..
Nate, Fontana is running tomorrow  :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 14, 2011, 07:35:33 pm
With time, tuning, slicks.  Sure.  
Not in that street trim.  I'd be a little more positive the phil and say he might crack a 15, as is.  

I feel it would do better in the 1/4 mile (Famoso) in street trim then the 1/8 (Iwindale) in street trim.  I don't see Robert driving a couple hours out to Bakersfield, so Irwindale is the only realistic track. 

At Famoso I feel it would quickly run better than your prediction as Robert got used to how much throttle it can take going down the track.  In the 1/8 it'll depend on how good the track is that day to determine if it runs better than a 9.60. 
I'm also factoring his track experience.  Hell, I ran 15's first out down to 13.6's with no change other then technique and tire pressure.  In my DD...  But that's about 20 years ago.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: RunninHorse on October 14, 2011, 07:42:26 pm
Ok, enough about Mike's signature.  No point in the speculation.  My point was it would be dumb to assume anything about any ET/MPH that anyone claims.

 :focus:

An ET and MPH really helps put what people say about their cars into perspective.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 14, 2011, 07:42:47 pm
Here's an idea.  Why don't we all let Robert enjoy his nice brand new engine for a while before we start begging him to take it to the track.  Robert, stop saying your car will run any type of ET until you're ready to take it to the track.  That work for everyone???


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 14, 2011, 07:47:59 pm
Works for me.

One more caveat?  Less 'expert' inputs on other threads?  I think that's what gets a lot of people too.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Alex on October 14, 2011, 07:58:04 pm
Less 'expert' inputs on other threads?

I will not.. I repeat.. NOT stop giving my expert input on girls with monster boobies  :347ho:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 14, 2011, 08:03:46 pm
Less 'expert' inputs on other threads?

I will not.. I repeat.. NOT stop giving my expert input on girls with monster boobies  :347ho:

I meant Robert, silly.  Boobie input is highly encouraged.  :rock


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:09:10 pm
Here's an idea.  Why don't we all let Robert enjoy his nice brand new engine for a while before we start begging him to take it to the track.  Robert, stop saying your car will run any type of ET until you're ready to take it to the track.  That work for everyone???


Nate -- if it ran 90mph at Irwindale what would that translate into a 1/4mi time, roughly?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:09:48 pm
Works for me.

One more caveat?  Less 'expert' inputs on other threads?  I think that's what gets a lot of people too.


You're reading too much into my posts -- I've never claimed to be an expert.  I just help when I can.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:10:59 pm
When someone says "pump gas" that means all motor -- no matter what circle you are in.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:11:27 pm
OK lets get to the important stuff... who's your "cop" friend Robert..  :whistling:  ;D


 :pimp


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: BuckeyeDemon on October 14, 2011, 09:29:14 pm
When someone says "pump gas" that means all motor -- no matter what circle you are in.

in my circle,  pump gas means you can go to a common gas station, fuel up and drive it on the street (typically 93 octane max around here).

naturally aspirated means no power adder (i.e. nitrous, turbos, superchargers...).

my friends subaru has a turbo on it.  it also uses "pump gas".

my circle is pretty small though.  maybe terminology is different in the midwest.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 14, 2011, 09:29:59 pm
Works for me.

One more caveat?  Less 'expert' inputs on other threads?  I think that's what gets a lot of people too.


You're reading too much into my posts -- I've never claimed to be an expert.  I just help when I can.
No not really.  Others have commented similarly.  But your exuberance is commendable and just needs to be channeled properly.
Maybe my bad in the wording in this case.  Maybe instead of expert it should have more properly been worded 'non track proven opinions'.  I know it's good intent. It just that what 'feels' good experience really should be just that a feel.  It's not necessary meaning it's fast.

A super high post count can be interpreted as having a high level of experience.  It's as misleading as 'pump gas' too ;)  We can all be better.  That's what criticism provides.

 


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Alex on October 14, 2011, 09:36:33 pm
When someone says "pump gas" that means all motor -- no matter what circle you are in.

I plan on a T-trim @12-15 pounds for my little 302 on pump gas.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:37:26 pm
OK then.

How is this thought?

I would think that we can all agree that the moderator Rich has a lot of experience at the track, right?

Pretend that I put on some good and sticky racing slicks on the Merc.  Say some 12" wide tread.

I give the keys to Rich.

You all can read what makes the Merc.

What do you think that he would run?

There is the answer to everyone question concerning the track.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:38:21 pm
When someone says "pump gas" that means all motor -- no matter what circle you are in.

I plan on a T-trim @12-15 pounds for my little 302 on pump gas.



Would you list your track times as your sig with "pump gas" right next to it OR would you list that you also made that signature time with 12 - 15 pounds of boost?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 14, 2011, 09:41:10 pm
When someone says "pump gas" that means all motor -- no matter what circle you are in.
This another example.  If you ever looked into Hot Rod's Pump Gas Drags,  they clear state N/A cars have 'little chance' and have a category just for them.  Pump Gas is just that pump gas, not racing fuel.  Yet your statement comes off like very authoritative.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:42:47 pm
I'm uploading to Photobucket a better in-car video.

Towards the end when I make that last right turn and get on it right after the corner I spun too much in all three gears.  (Trying to wear the rear tires out sooner so my Queen will OK me purchasing some taller, fatter and stickier 325/50-15 Nittos.)

The second time on that long straight road I hit it for a bit without spinning.

See how that tough engine and solid engine mounts lifts the front-end suspension when I hit it?  I likes it.

I know that it has a slight exhaust leak.  I've grown to like it.  Keeps me awake at the wheel.      :spit:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on October 14, 2011, 09:43:32 pm
11.8


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:46:14 pm
When someone says "pump gas" that means all motor -- no matter what circle you are in.
This another example.  If you ever looked into Hot Rod's Pump Gas Drags,  they clear state N/A cars have 'little chance' and have a category just for them.  Pump Gas is just that pump gas, not racing fuel.  Yet your statement comes off like very authoritative.


So to you "pump gas" can mean pump gas with a power-adder, too?  Is that what you are saying?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:47:07 pm
Quote
Here's that next in-car video as promised.


http://s610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/?action=view&current=FixedMercdrivingwindowvideo.mp4 (http://s610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/?action=view&current=FixedMercdrivingwindowvideo.mp4)

This is with total timing coming in at 1800rpms.

I haven't really had time to mess with the timing yet -- it is currently at 28* BTDC as Jim advised me to start out at.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 14, 2011, 09:47:56 pm

Would you list your track times as your sig with "pump gas" right next to it OR would you list that you also made that signature time with 12 - 15 pounds of boost?

See, that's just it.  Real track racers know what pump gas means when many of them run either racing fuel, alcohol, or nitro.  A good time with pump gas IS very impressive.  N/A or not and worthy of that statement.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: Alex on October 14, 2011, 09:48:12 pm
When someone says "pump gas" that means all motor -- no matter what circle you are in.

I plan on a T-trim @12-15 pounds for my little 302 on pump gas.



Would you list your track times as your sig with "pump gas" right next to it OR would you list that you also made that signature time with 12 - 15 pounds of boost?

I never really thought about my sig but I'd probably point out both.

But IMO pump gas and being N/A have nothing to do with each other.

...oh on the video.. your car sounds awesome. Fix that exhaust leak though (I HATE THEM).


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 14, 2011, 09:50:22 pm

So to you "pump gas" can mean pump gas with a power-adder, too?  Is that what you are saying?
Yes, absolutely.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 09:57:17 pm

So to you "pump gas" can mean pump gas with a power-adder, too?  Is that what you are saying?
Yes, absolutely.


But think about it from my point of view.

With pump gas you can make crazy amounts of power with a dual turbo system, right?

What about a couple of shots of spray?  Can you make some killer amounts of power with spray calling it "this is on pump gas"?

To me "pump gas" in your mind is very misleading.  To me.  Very misleading.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on October 14, 2011, 09:57:55 pm
I always assumed "pump gas" is a car that could run on gas from the local gas station regardless if it was NA boosted or sprayed?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 10:01:58 pm
I always assumed "pump gas" is a car that could run on gas from the local gas station regardless if it was NA boosted or sprayed?


OK -- I can handle being corrected.  I don't have to be a dick about it.

I would like to hear it from Rich's typing if you all don't mind -- if he agrees with this that "pump gas" means just that and it's generally accepted that power-adders that are used just on pump gas are OK to not be mentioned as you guys are saying.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 289nate on October 14, 2011, 10:03:54 pm
Less 'expert' inputs on other threads?

I will not.. I repeat.. NOT stop giving my expert input on girls with monster boobies  :347ho:

I meant Robert, silly.  Boobie input is highly encouraged.  :rock

The real question is who has more boobie experience?  You or Robert?  The good Lord saw it fit to bless me with a woman that has a healthy

Robert has a VERY good understanding of how to tune a standard carburetor to the extent most of us go.  He also saved up and got his junk running faster than just about anybody I know.  The guy got it done and deserves credit for that.  When any of you street strip guys have the inevitable carb question, you'll be blessed if Robert takes the time to go through things with you step by step.

Robert is a helpful guy by nature.  If I thought he was a chest thumper, I'd be the first to cut him down to size.  It"s refreshing to me personally to see someone so fired up by their new combo.  I remember being there with my combos and my friends as well.  Robert is alright in my book even if he jumps the gun more than most.  Just me.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: gtvert90 on October 14, 2011, 10:09:43 pm
Pump gas to me just means what I can get at the corner... there are plenty of street cars, factory cars, race cars, with power adders and you can fill up at the gas station..

He drives his car on the street.. Does he fill up at the gas station?

If infact he ran those times with racegas and spray that would seem misleading... BUT

Who gives a FUCK about Mikes signature? I mean really? Half the people here don't even like the guy.  :chair


 :handbla:

Ah.. using :handbla: felt good... I was missing out.  ;D


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 10:12:47 pm
Pump gas to me just means what I can get at the corner... there are plenty of street cars, factory cars, race cars, with power adders and you can fill up at the gas station..

He drives his car on the street.. Does he fill up at the gas station?

If infact he ran those times with racegas and spray that would seem misleading... BUT

Who gives a FUCK about Mikes signature? I mean really? Half the people here don't even like the guy.  :chair


 :handbla:

Ah.. using :handbla: felt good... I was missing out.  ;D


Because I thought that we were "forum friends" and then he started to get shitty with me saying that I talk to much B.S. about my Merc on my friggin' thread.

Sooooooo -- I said what about your misleading signature if you want to talk about B.S.

It looks like I was wrong so I can take it back and man-up and say sorry about my B.S. and good I learned another good thing about this hobby of ours.

Now I learned what "pump gas" means in it's wording.

 :thanx:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on October 14, 2011, 10:15:18 pm

Mike knows he left the nitrous part out on purpose.  I'm pretty sure he doesn't even use straight up pump gas when he makes a nitrous run.  Mike is a sneaky reformed street racer.  ;)

It is what it is.  On the street, it's a pump gas 306.  On the track, it's a low 10 second ride.  Nitrous isn't a secret.  My screen name on most websites is n2omike.  LOL

The car has a flat tappet, 6800 rpm 306 that runs on pump gas.  It's set up for the bottle, so when it goes to the track, the pump gas gets replaced with 110, the nitrous valve gets turned on, and it's time to party!

That's my basic recipe for a fast street car.  Nitrous doesn't need a lot of compression.  Therefore, it's easy to use pump gas off the bottle.  Plus, if I were to build a 10 second n/a 306, it would be a PITA on the street.  It would need race gas, it would turn a bunch of rpm, so service life would be short, and engines like that tend to break and wear parts out a LOT faster than something with an easy valvetrain that turns less than 7k rpm.    It also comes down to what I can afford...  and nitrous is the best performance for the dollar.

I used to drive my car 100 miles each way from where I stored it at my parent's house, to where I lived in Huntington.  I would then drive it 40 miles each way, back and forth to work, as well as everywhere else I went.  This was with the 289 headed 306 that went 6.73 and 10.63 in the 1/8 and 1/4.  The current 306 is very similar, except it has some twisted wedge heads that I ported.  It is still shifted at 6800 rpm, runs about the same n/a, but the extra port area really allows the nitrous to shine.  

Low compression + pump gas + low shift point + flat tappet cam = RELIABLE and LONG SERVICE LIFE

Nitrous = FUN at the track!

It's really nothing all that special.  It just runs good for what it is.   :)



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 10:18:34 pm
So Mike -- your signature's ET is on spray and race fuel, right?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 14, 2011, 10:24:45 pm
Robert when I said go back to the begining, the subject was a 4.10 gear

if doesnt go through the traps on pump gas than it isnt "pump gas", BUT power adder has nothing to do with it


I dont know them but I think Nate and Tim are good people and you should take up their offer. you dont know what you are missing. footbraking the car on radials wont be any harder on the car than the videos you just posted, in fact that is actually harder on your car(heat)

seriously-
A its your thread, go back to the begining and read all 80 pages!!!
B you dont know what youre missing. you dont know

dont take it the wrong way. everyone is here to help you. you dont know to realize it


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on October 14, 2011, 10:26:55 pm
When someone says there 306 does a 10.1 on pump gas.... There are definately questions to be asked... No need for that kinda bs it is childish.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 10:32:03 pm
Robert when I said go back to the begining, the subject was a 4.10 gear


What are you saying?  That you think that I should switch to a 4.10 rear gear?  Why?  In the vids can't you see how quick the Merc jumps into it's powerband?


I dont know them but I think Nate and Tim are good people and you should take up their offer. you dont know what you are missing. footbraking the car on radials wont be any harder on the car than the videos you just posted, in fact that is actually harder on your car(heat)

How is it harder on the car?  What heat are you talking about that I wouldn't get at the track?  Or are you talking about the police?

seriously-
A its your thread, go back to the begining and read all 80 pages!!!
B you dont know what youre missing. you dont know


What are you talking about re-reading my thread?      :dunno



dont take it the wrong way. everyone is here to help you. you dont know to realize it


I hope so.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on October 14, 2011, 10:37:00 pm
When someone says there 306 does a 10.1 on pump gas.... There are definately questions to be asked... No need for that kinda bs it is childish.

I didn't say it goes 10.15 on pump gas.
I said it was a pump gas 306, and it runs that time at the track.
I've never tried to hide the fact that the car uses nitrous to get it there.  Race gas is insurance when running the bottle, as detonation on the bottle will kill a factory 302 block pretty much instantly at these power levels.

The car spends 99% of it's time on the street, and that's where it runs pump gas.  Actually, the 110 octane race gas I used the last two times at the track...  two years ago, and last month, is at least five years old.  I pump it out of the car as soon as the racing is finished, put the pump gas back in, and save the 110 for the next trip.



Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 14, 2011, 10:39:08 pm
http://motormaniatv.com/

Enjoy the live feed from Georgia this weekend..... A few west coasters made the drive to race out there n im rooting for them...


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on October 14, 2011, 10:41:01 pm
When someone says there 306 does a 10.1 on pump gas.... There are definately questions to be asked... No need for that kinda bs it is childish.

I didn't say it goes 10.15 on pump gas.
I said it was a pump gas 306, and it runs that time at the track.
I've never tried to hide the fact that the car uses nitrous to get it there.  Race gas is insurance when running the bottle, as detonation on the bottle will kill a factory 302 block pretty much instantly at these power levels.

The car spends 99% of it's time on the street, and that's where it runs pump gas.  Actually, the 110 octane race gas I used the last two times at the track...  two years ago, and last month, is at least five years old.  I pump it out of the car as soon as the racing is finished, put the pump gas back in, and save the 110 for the next trip.



I am sorry I am not good at reading between the lines either :dunno


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 14, 2011, 10:41:29 pm
at the track the car sits and cools between passes. you are building more heat driving the streets

as far as cops, laying into it after passing a school bus is pretty stupid. I could see how that could get a car impounded and catching a few hots and a cot  :whistling:

hopefully you'll come around and see/understand.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 14, 2011, 10:46:00 pm
http://motormaniatv.com/

Enjoy the live feed from Georgia this weekend..... A few west coasters made the drive to race out there n im rooting for them...

thanks!


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 10:47:21 pm
Lets be real honest here guys, OK?


What is the big deal about the track?

I mean to me -- who has had this heavy Merc years ago when it only had a stock 351W making 250HP -- to what it is now -- it is pretty darn fast for the street and it's weight and yes it's pump gas yet all motor.

What are you all trying to force out of me with an ET slip?

That it's not that fast?  Fast as what?  It's fast as to the street cars that I drive by.  Is it the fastest thing on the street?  Of course not.  There is always something faster.

It's a friggin' heavy street car.  But fuck it is my heavy street car that I have done many fabs and shit with my own two hands.  Welding, cutting and making shit work on it.

Some time soon I am going to make fit some Nitto 550R or whatever the heck they call the P325/50-15 D.O.T. radials.  I am going to get out the chop-saw and gently massage the rear's wheel covering body parts to make this work.  When I can get some better traction I will shoot some more videos and link them up here.

Maybe I don't want an ET slip to ruin my mental image of my Merc.  It would spoil it for me driving it daily.  I can't afford dual turbo's to spit out some real good four digit HP numbers or fuckin' A believe you me I would.  And I would fucking drive it daily.

Sorry!

That was some honest shit, people.      :tchill:


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 10:51:55 pm
laying into it after passing a school bus is pretty stupid.


I didn't get into it until I was safely past the school bus.

Look at the video -- the school bus was applying it's brakes and I got past it and then got into the pedal.  There is a difference there.

If I had gotten into it before the school bus then law enforcement would have seen that as being very reckless endangering their lives because what if the school bus driver couldn't see nor hear me over the noise of the children and had changed lanes right into my speeding Merc?

There is a method to my madness if you want to infer it as that . . .


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 14, 2011, 10:55:30 pm
For me, nothing compairs to the track, from jitters from being nervois to the adreniline rush... From making a pass and trying to improve from the first pass to my last.
 its up to you if you want to run at the track.
Im sure you would have a good time. but if you never want to go there, its all good. Nothing wrong with that. I just think at some point you will want to see what its all about and what you can do... Your car does everything you want it to do... and that is all that matters.
but i will say the track is safer then street blast, this coming from someone who used to street race and still know plenty who do


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: scienceguy on October 14, 2011, 10:57:24 pm
What is the big deal about the track?

What are you all trying to force out of me with an ET slip?

That it's not that fast?  Fast as what?  It's fast as to the street cars that I drive by.  Is it the fastest thing on the street?  Of course not.  There is always something faster.

Maybe I don't want an ET slip to ruin my mental image of my Merc.  It would spoil it for me driving it daily.  

As for me, I'm not trying to force your hand so I can poke fun at you.  That's not how I roll.  

I get great joy out of taking my car to the track where it can get FULL TRACTION, and I can feel it's FULL POWER.  On the street, a 10 second car feels a lot like a 12 second car.  They both just spin the tires all over the place...  especially in the first couple of gears.  

With the 5k rpm converter and 4.56 gear, your car is set up to accelerate from a dead stop.  However, the missing link here, is traction!  There's no way in hell you can take advantage of the converter and gears...  without slicks and a drag strip.  

You aren't feeling a fraction of your car's power and acceleration by just playing around on the street with radials.  To feel what you paid all that money for, you're going to need to install slicks, and take it to the strip.

If you just footbrake it, and run it through the gears....  you won't hurt it.  

I want you to feel the full potential of your car, as after that first run, your hands will be shaking, and you'll have a huge, un-removable smile on your face.  At that point, you'll "get it", and will want to do it over and over again.   ;)

 :burnout


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: oldmanjoe on October 14, 2011, 11:00:32 pm
Ok do the street math .      how far apart are the power poles ?   how long does it take you to cover them at a 25/30mph stab roll ?   


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: jayh on October 14, 2011, 11:01:15 pm
its not really about the slip, its about you enjoying what you've been missing


as far as the street stuff, the wrong cop might see you and see things differently; depends on the hood too I guess


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 5.0Torino on October 14, 2011, 11:01:50 pm
Whatever you do, do not go to the track with sreet tires.

It will end badly


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 11:03:00 pm
Whatever you do, do not go to the track with sreet tires.

It will end badly


What are you thinking about?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 11:03:29 pm
Ok do the street math .      how far apart are the power poles ?   how long does it take you to cover them at a 25/30mph roll ?   


Did you like the second video?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 11:05:18 pm
Interesting vid.  Gotta get that fixed.  Maybe that's skewing my impression.  But, if those were WOT sprints there near the end, then 11's... I don't think so...  sorry.  



What did you think about the second video?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: FordRacing250 on October 14, 2011, 11:06:45 pm
what second video?


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 14, 2011, 11:07:38 pm
Lets be real honest here guys, OK?


What is the big deal about the track?

Two good reasons.  
It's just like taking your final exam.  You find out if you really did good.  You can think all you want on how well you thought you did.  Until it's scored, you just don't know.

Second, once you know, then you can work on making it better.  If if needs.  Or if you want.

That simple


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 11:07:51 pm
what second video?


http://s610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/?action=view&current=FixedMercdrivingwindowvideo.mp4 (http://s610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/?action=view&current=FixedMercdrivingwindowvideo.mp4)


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: oldmanjoe on October 14, 2011, 11:09:06 pm
Ok do the street math .      how far apart are the power poles ?   how long does it take you to cover them at a 25/30mph roll ?   


Did you like the second video?
 that`s why i asked you the question.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 85_GT on October 14, 2011, 11:10:53 pm
Interesting vid.  Gotta get that fixed.  Maybe that's skewing my impression.  But, if those were WOT sprints there near the end, then 11's... I don't think so...  sorry.  



What did you think about the second video?
Much better.  There I saw potential where you let the rpm's sing for a bit.


Title: Re: Robert's modified '69 Merc
Post by: 69 Merc on October 14, 2011, 11:11:32 pm