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Small Block Talk => 351W Small Blocks => Topic started by: ranchopower on August 01, 2010, 09:44:29 pm



Title: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 01, 2010, 09:44:29 pm
8 months building up a nice N/A motor for a 93 coupe, made it to the track friday night, first pass 8.90 at 90 mph with a 2.40 short time.
Second pass about 86 mph the K/B 276 piston #4 decided it worked better in the oil pan.
munch munch munch,  conneting rod a lil bent and nice big hole in the #4 cylinder.
No bent pushrods but #4 valves nicely bent.
Nice way to testN tune :whistling:
Looking at some Mahle pistons now.
Here is the build as we did it, and new carnage pics maybe 2morrow
http://www.ranchopower.com/jims-351w/

Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 04, 2010, 09:33:38 pm
Carnage photos finally, and we decided to repair and carry on with the same pistons, so one replacement piston, one sleeve in the block maybe two.
 one each new intake/exhaust valves and a new connecting rod.

http://www.ranchopower.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Picture-0012.jpg

http://www.ranchopower.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Picture-0022.jpg

http://www.ranchopower.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Picture-0042.jpg

http://www.ranchopower.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Picture-009.jpg

http://www.ranchopower.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Picture-0121.jpg

Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: 69 Merc on August 04, 2010, 10:06:21 pm
That sucks.  What caused it?


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 04, 2010, 10:14:46 pm
Tune out to lunch  :whistling:

I have not been able to come up with a conclusion as of now. Fact is the piston could not hold the pressure/heat, so my next tune will be colder plugs less total timing and a EGT in the dang car!
I am doing this with my buddy Jim so we try to make the best with a few dollars and a few ideas.
I build it and he helps wrench, but he owns the whole deal.
So far it has been fun even with this flesh wound  :party

Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: grslms51 on August 04, 2010, 10:36:15 pm
wow,that thing shattered..are they hyper-pistons?


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: 69 Merc on August 05, 2010, 10:29:53 am
Tune out to lunch  :whistling:

I have not been able to come up with a conclusion as of now. Fact is the piston could not hold the pressure/heat, so my next tune will be colder plugs less total timing and a EGT in the dang car!
I am doing this with my buddy Jim so we try to make the best with a few dollars and a few ideas.
I build it and he helps wrench, but he owns the whole deal.
So far it has been fun even with this flesh wound  :party

Javier

So next time 34* total timing?   :wonder:


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: RunninHorse on August 05, 2010, 10:40:18 am
ouch


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 05, 2010, 02:24:17 pm
Tune out to lunch  :whistling:

I have not been able to come up with a conclusion as of now. Fact is the piston could not hold the pressure/heat, so my next tune will be colder plugs less total timing and a EGT in the dang car!
I am doing this with my buddy Jim so we try to make the best with a few dollars and a few ideas.
I build it and he helps wrench, but he owns the whole deal.
So far it has been fun even with this flesh wound  :party

Javier

So next time 34* total timing?   :wonder:

That was with 20 intial timing @1000 rpm  and total 32 @ 4000 rpm

Maybe try 25 total next try

Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: turbo2256 on August 06, 2010, 10:53:25 am
What RPM did you shift at.

One ting I wouldnt do is build a hipo motor with any kind of cast pistons. Cheep forged are better than expensive cast.


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: injectedrod on August 06, 2010, 02:39:14 pm
Scary and very hard on the wallet


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 07, 2010, 06:23:09 pm
It had a 6800rpm pill that day thankfully.
I tore the rest of the motor down and found every rod bearing spun but no damage,   :wtf: except for all the tangs ripped out that hold the bearings in the register  :dunno
the rod journals and bearing faces are in new condition.  :whistling:
I will get pics soon.
I Wont be using total seal top ring again, I think that was the straw...

Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: turbo2256 on August 08, 2010, 10:16:45 am
I would be more interested in if the rods big end and or crank were sized properly than blaming it on the piston rings. I have run into the issue of a shop machining some of my stuff before and because they didnt check there micrometers very often the rods big end was off and had to have them redone. I was lucky in that I cought it before assembly.

Not shure what cam or springs in the engine but just one weak spring could have caused the problem.


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 09, 2010, 09:39:35 am
I would be more interested in if the rods big end and or crank were sized properly than blaming it on the piston rings. I have run into the issue of a shop machining some of my stuff before and because they didnt check there micrometers very often the rods big end was off and had to have them redone. I was lucky in that I cought it before assembly.

Not shure what cam or springs in the engine but just one weak spring could have caused the problem.
Well we will redo the same combo now, with JE pistons, rods making a trip for machine,
all the rest of the combo the same, Dart alum  heads 276cfm @.600 low lift very good cfm
combustion chamber 55cc, new pistons now have .100 inverted dome, engine was at 11.5:1 with F/T pistons at .005+ deck.
So a new block, new set of pistons, rings, one connecting rod, a balance and one intake and exhaust valve and we are back in the game if everything else is good, so far so good.

I will check all the springs for any differences, they are K-800 set up at 1.750 I set them at .060 CB clearence, looks as if it was working good, no marks on the pistons and no bent pushrods so we shall see in the near future how it runs again...
Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: scienceguy on August 09, 2010, 09:46:44 am
Get some quality mics and learn to use them.  Machine work quality varies WILDLY.  Often, there's more bad work out there than good.

For something that is going to be run hard, go toward the looser side of spec to avoid spun bearings.  Many shops just grind the crank down until it's just 'in spec' which leaves the crank on the large side, and the bearings on the tight side.  The looser clearance also tends to leave a little more room for error. 

Piston rings with KB hypereutectics...  These require significantly more gap on the top ring.  The top ring runs hot in these, and without the extra gap, the ring will stick in the bore at TDC, and when the rod pulls it back down, it breaks the ring land off. 



Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 09, 2010, 10:01:51 am
Get some quality mics and learn to use them.  Machine work quality varies WILDLY.  Often, there's more bad work out there than good.

For something that is going to be run hard, go toward the looser side of spec to avoid spun bearings.  Many shops just grind the crank down until it's just 'in spec' which leaves the crank on the large side, and the bearings on the tight side.  The looser clearance also tends to leave a little more room for error. 

Piston rings with KB hypereutectics...  These require significantly more gap on the top ring.  The top ring runs hot in these, and without the extra gap, the ring will stick in the bore at TDC, and when the rod pulls it back down, it breaks the ring land off. 



I had gapless top rings, HAD,  the remaining 5 pistons with rings pinched in the grooves, will take the nice rings to the scap pile  :disgust:

I have never seen 8 spun bearings and no physical damage but soon a trip to the rod machine will tell a story, and I will share results.

Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: mmb on August 09, 2010, 11:06:06 am
It's not the piston, we have gone 9.60's with KB pistons in a 393 all motor.  12.1 compression 7200 rpm and it lasted years until a seat fell out of the head.


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 09, 2010, 11:10:53 am
It's not the piston, we have gone 9.60's with KB pistons in a 393 all motor.  12.1 compression 7200 rpm and it lasted years until a seat fell out of the head.

OK I believe you 100%

But Im not sure what made number 4 cylinder a 4 inch hole at 6800 rpm
I think I should of not mixed a hyper piston with a gapless top ring.

I never burnt a plug in the engine either so I am a lil miffed

Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: scienceguy on August 09, 2010, 11:13:24 am
OK I believe you 100%

But Im not sure what made number 4 cylinder a 4 inch hole at 6800 rpm
I think I should of not mixed a hyper piston with a gapless top ring.

I never burnt a plug in the engine either so I am a lil miffed

Javier

The rings may act as 'gapless', but there is still a gap for expansion.  Study the rings, and you'll see it.  That gap should be plenty big for those pistons.

Good Luck!


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: 69 Merc on August 09, 2010, 11:31:00 am
Why not use forged instead of hyper pistons?


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 09, 2010, 11:31:05 am
OK I believe you 100%

But Im not sure what made number 4 cylinder a 4 inch hole at 6800 rpm
I think I should of not mixed a hyper piston with a gapless top ring.

I never burnt a plug in the engine either so I am a lil miffed

Javier

The rings may act as 'gapless', but there is still a gap for expansion.  Study the rings, and you'll see it.  That gap should be plenty big for those pistons.

Good Luck!

I had to file fit the gapless ring, maybe that one was the tighest one?  That cylinder had the best cranking compression of 190 psi.
before I adjusted the valves hot.

I agree that the gapless still has to have the extra clearence added in, and I thought this would work well.
and it did till I killed it.

Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: turbo2256 on August 10, 2010, 12:36:04 am
Could have been just a bad piston.
I suggest going with the light weight wrist pins


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: BirdMan on August 10, 2010, 09:41:48 am
I would go with the larger ring gap's and get some extra clearance +.001 bearings as they were too tight.


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: 69 Merc on August 10, 2010, 09:53:54 am
Why not use forged instead of hyper pistons?

 :dunno


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: 351 windsor snake on August 10, 2010, 11:21:05 pm
Why not use forged instead of hyper pistons?

 :dunno
If you read his previous posts regaurding his theories about reusing oil,I am sure you will find the answer.


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: liljoe07 on August 10, 2010, 11:30:47 pm
:spit:



Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: juiced coupe on August 10, 2010, 11:40:54 pm
Why not use forged instead of hyper pistons?

 :dunno
If you read his previous posts regaurding his theories about reusing oil,I am sure you will find the answer.

Hey, my junk has hyper pistons!  :duh

But I do change my oil.  ;D


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: My427stang on August 11, 2010, 07:32:49 am
Tune out to lunch  :whistling:

I have not been able to come up with a conclusion as of now. Fact is the piston could not hold the pressure/heat, so my next tune will be colder plugs less total timing and a EGT in the dang car!
I am doing this with my buddy Jim so we try to make the best with a few dollars and a few ideas.
I build it and he helps wrench, but he owns the whole deal.
So far it has been fun even with this flesh wound  :party

Javier

So next time 34* total timing?   :wonder:

That was with 20 intial timing @1000 rpm  and total 32 @ 4000 rpm

Maybe try 25 total next try

Javier

How did you limit timing to only 12 degrees mechanical?  Seems like classic detonation damage, could you have more advance than you think?


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 12, 2010, 12:19:37 pm
Why not use forged instead of hyper pistons?

 :dunno
If you read his previous posts regaurding his theories about reusing oil,I am sure you will find the answer.
the motor had only 50miles so how is ur post relavent?

Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 12, 2010, 01:39:38 pm
Quote
              How did you limit timing to only 12 degrees mechanical?  Seems like classic detonation damage, could you have more advance than you think?
         

The car/engine was built by me and my buddy. I rather of had more control of the build but it is what it is.
The day I cranked up the motor, my buddy Jim took the car home. no timing no tune nothing!  I was pissed but I got paid and that was that.
A month goes by and I get calls, this aint right, this isnt working, hey I have to bring it to ya I cant make it run no more.
So I get the car back and the distributor MSD is FUBAR only had 3 cylinders firing.
So who knows what Jim and friends did???
I took a magnetic FORD pickup distributor and modified the centrifical advance myself to get 12 degrees, set it up with a timing light and the car came to life until I killed it.

Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 12, 2010, 01:46:20 pm
Why not use forged instead of hyper pistons?

 :dunno

I had the pistons already from 2002 and my buddy Jim said what can we put together.
We always like to push the envelope as much as we can.
We have a new shortblock almost ready to assemble now with forged pistons.
I have a 435 almost ready too that has Hyperpistons so I will be sweating on that one, but I think I got a handle on it now.
You got any new pics of that ugly car I want to see more...
Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: 69 Merc on August 12, 2010, 02:17:28 pm
Beauty is in the eyes of the holder.  My Merc is NOT ugly!!!

(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/Mercurypic1-20-08008.jpg)
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/Mercurybodyphotos3-14-09001.jpg)
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/Mercurypic1-20-08004.jpg)

I don't have any current pics.  I need to take some.  It's just been hot here where I live.   :dunno


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: RunninHorse on August 12, 2010, 02:22:32 pm
You got any new pics of that ugly car I want to see more...
Javier

Cheap shot man, no bueno


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: gtvert90 on August 12, 2010, 02:39:20 pm
You got any new pics of that ugly car I want to see more...
Javier

Cheap shot man, no bueno
they go way back. There good ;)


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: 69 Merc on August 12, 2010, 02:40:49 pm
You got any new pics of that ugly car I want to see more...
Javier

Cheap shot man, no bueno

I know, man!  

If I had some real money then my Merc would look top-class immaculate but unfortunately I don't.

It about broke my bank making it semi-fast -- motor-wise, fuel system, coolant system, trans, steering, drive-train, suspension, tires and rims!


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: gtvert90 on August 12, 2010, 02:43:57 pm
 robert. I don't think he meant anything personal. I dont think he was referring to the condition of your car


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: 69 Merc on August 12, 2010, 02:48:42 pm
robert. I don't think he meant anything personal. I dont think he was referring to the condition of your car

Oh don't worry, bro.  Thanks.  He and I have talked smack jokingly to each other before.  When I really get mad I usually use lots of curse words and nasty assed street slang.  Then you'll know without a doubt that I'm ticked-off.

The crappy part of my speed addiction is that after driving it a while now it doesn't seem fast to me anymore!   :wtf:

I need more HP.  That costs more money, dammit!  I'm trying my best saving money for a better motor whenever the heck that can happen.  I'm even looking into getting a part-time second job for more income.
 :smile


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: 69 Merc on August 12, 2010, 02:57:22 pm
The only reason I said to go forged and not "hyper" pistons is because I remember Jay Allen saying that they weren't any good if you're making any real power.  I just don't want the same crap to happen to the OP, Javier, again.  I'm definitely saving my hard-earned money for forged pistons on my future upgrade motor.
 :Gluck:


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 13, 2010, 11:18:52 am
Merc your car is it over 3800lbs?
I think you can fake yourself out by changing the rear gear to something a little more doable for street/strip duty.
I started out using 3.89 for years, then the local track opened and I threw in a 4.56 pig and I did not see any improvement e/t, 60ft, mph, NADA.
Put the 3.89 back in and car went faster  :wtf:
In my car the 3.89 gear feels as if the motor has to make more grunt to get going and it seemed to work better.
I mentioned this cause you said your used to the power you have and want more.
Just trick yourself by changing the gear you may be suprised and you wont need a new motor just yet!

Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: 69 Merc on August 13, 2010, 11:45:28 am
Merc your car is it over 3800lbs?
 
With me in it the Merc weighs 4000lbs.  I still love it, though.  Not all cars can be hot skinny models, no?   :dunno
  
I think you can fake yourself out by changing the rear gear to something a little more doable for street/strip duty.
I started out using 3.89 for years, then the local track opened and I threw in a 4.56 pig and I did not see any improvement e/t, 60ft, mph, NADA.
Put the 3.89 back in and car went faster  :wtf:
In my car the 3.89 gear feels as if the motor has to make more grunt to get going and it seemed to work better.

I think that this is because it makes your TC stall a little bit higher.  Going to a numerically larger gear will lower your TC's stall.

I mentioned this cause you said your used to the power you have and want more.
Just trick yourself by changing the gear you may be surprised and you wont need a new motor just yet!

Javier

I'm thinking on putting on some 315/50R15's out back which will change my tire height from it's 26" present to 28".  That should change my rear gear from a 4.56 to a 4.23 -- that should help me with traction issues, slightly increase the TC stall -- AND hopefully not slow down my acceleration because it's a larger tire circumference-wise.

Plus -- whenever I can get my upgrade monster motor I'm going to have a wild cam in it which needs a high numerically rear gear.  So I'm going to put taller tires on soon and see from there.
 :burnout


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 13, 2010, 12:03:09 pm
A C-4 for transmission  :dunno
I couldn't do it I had to have an AOD
And I love it, very dependable unit I built.
I have 5 C-4s just sitting around I am afraid to
use any, and I built many of those too before

No Hot Rod Power Tour for you eh?

Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: jayh on August 13, 2010, 01:52:22 pm
It had a 6800rpm pill that day thankfully.
I tore the rest of the motor down and found every rod bearing spun but no damage,   :wtf: except for all the tangs ripped out that hold the bearings in the register  :dunno
the rod journals and bearing faces are in new condition.  :whistling:
I will get pics soon.
I Wont be using total seal top ring again, I think that was the straw...

Javier

it sounds like this may have been caused by this-

Quote
             How did you limit timing to only 12 degrees mechanical?  Seems like classic detonation damage, could you have more advance than you think?
          

The car/engine was built by me and my buddy. I rather of had more control of the build but it is what it is.
The day I cranked up the motor, my buddy Jim took the car home. no timing no tune nothing!  I was pissed but I got paid and that was that.
A month goes by and I get calls, this aint right, this isnt working, hey I have to bring it to ya I cant make it run no more.
So I get the car back and the distributor MSD is FUBAR only had 3 cylinders firing.
So who knows what Jim and friends did???
I took a magnetic FORD pickup distributor and modified the centrifical advance myself to get 12 degrees, set it up with a timing light and the car came to life until I killed it.

Javier

 :dunno

the oil may have been severely diluted with fuel. definately do not reuse the oil in this situation, even if it only has 50miles.
how far was the piston in/out of the hole? I almost wonder, maybe if they were like .009 out, maybe when that bearing started to go, the head may have hit the piston?  :wonder: it probably was detonation though. the damage very well may started when your buddy was limping the thing around hurt, yet beating the crap out of it, then at the track he just finished it off  :dunno
I kind of thought the issue with those pistons was more that they were on the heavy side  :dunno

I knid of agree with Javier on the gear thing, MERC you have enough converter now, a 4.10 or 3.73 the car might feel stronger, meanwhile be more enjoyable to drive
I doubt you drive on the highway much, a 4.56gear with a 26"tire and a c4 would probably suck at 65-70
as far as hp MERC, working with what you have, on a budget, I think I would mill the heads and try to get the compression up to 10.25:1 or 10.5:1, put a little more cam in it, and ditch the stack of spacers, go 1" open, or just ditch that intake altogether and look into a small runner single plane for now. part of hot rodding is doing what you can with what you have, and having fun while doing it. someone will always be faster and have more money


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 13, 2010, 02:23:54 pm
JayH thanks 4 the reply.
The oil was fine, not now, the pistons were .005 out the hole with a .045 cometic gasket.

Yesterday I took the rods in and we looked and we find the rod bearing is for a 351W not a 351M so there is another item to add to the list of phuck ups.

My buddy JIM great guy but he likes to get ahead of himself sometimes, back in the day when we were getting parts I handed him a rod bearing from my 351/400M connecting rods and told him match this bearing up get me a set. since he could not wait for ME to do it...

So fast foward a few months, did the math the rod bearing clearence was .012 with the wrong bearings. 351W bearings on 400M rods

I blame Me cause I put it together, did the piston whack the head? none the othe pistons have evidence.

I have to take blame but I dont like being pressured to do anything except 5 speed T-5s I can do those in my sleep.

In My mind I built the engine in 2003 and it ran great!  I had a oil leak that I could not find and yanked the engine out.
I gave the block to another buddy and the rest of the parts sat in my oven till Jim opened the door.

Anyway I got all the parts ready again for more abuse so stay tuned...

Javier



Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: 69 Merc on August 13, 2010, 02:25:59 pm
 :Gluck:


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: Bam54 on August 13, 2010, 06:52:53 pm
JayH thanks 4 the reply.
The oil was fine, not now, the pistons were .005 out the hole with a .045 cometic gasket.

Yesterday I took the rods in and we looked and we find the rod bearing is for a 351W not a 351M so there is another item to add to the list of phuck ups.

My buddy JIM great guy but he likes to get ahead of himself sometimes, back in the day when we were getting parts I handed him a rod bearing from my 351/400M connecting rods and told him match this bearing up get me a set. since he could not wait for ME to do it...

So fast foward a few months, did the math the rod bearing clearence was .012 with the wrong bearings. 351W bearings on 400M rods

I blame Me cause I put it together, did the piston whack the head? none the othe pistons have evidence.

I have to take blame but I dont like being pressured to do anything except 5 speed T-5s I can do those in my sleep.

In My mind I built the engine in 2003 and it ran great!  I had a oil leak that I could not find and yanked the engine out.
I gave the block to another buddy and the rest of the parts sat in my oven till Jim opened the door.

Anyway I got all the parts ready again for more abuse so stay tuned...

Javier



How did you have oil pressure with .012 bearing clearance did you have a pressure gauge?
Even if you don't have any mics or a dial bore gauge you should at least use plastigauge it would have clued you in to a problem. I can say this at least you are honest most people would have made up and excuse instead of admitting to that big of a mistake. Good luck with the new build and always check clearances they will save you alot of money.

Bam


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 16, 2010, 10:58:48 am
Yep I could of checked the rod clearence, At the time I actually did, we had some .010 bearings on a .020 journal and I caught that one, so I pulled the original rod bearings I had run back in 2004 and handed that to my buddy to get a duplicate.
Still My fault for not checking.
Oil pressure was low hot idle 10 psi 45 psi at 4000 rpm.

I love telling the truth, makes me look more like a liar!  Most people rather hear some bullcrap instead cause they rather believe that instead of truth  :wtf:

Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: fidstang on September 16, 2010, 12:25:32 pm
Yep I could of checked the rod clearence, At the time I actually did, we had some .010 bearings on a .020 journal and I caught that one, so I pulled the original rod bearings I had run back in 2004 and handed that to my buddy to get a duplicate.
Still My fault for not checking.
Oil pressure was low hot idle 10 psi 45 psi at 4000 rpm.

I love telling the truth, makes me look more like a liar!  Most people rather hear some bullcrap instead cause they rather believe that instead of truth  :wtf:

Javier

Do you mean 2 thosandths or 20 thosandths? .002-.003" is what I thought it should be.  :dunno


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on September 17, 2010, 01:40:29 pm
Yep I could of checked the rod clearence, At the time I actually did, we had some .010 bearings on a .020 journal and I caught that one, so I pulled the original rod bearings I had run back in 2004 and handed that to my buddy to get a duplicate.
Still My fault for not checking.
Oil pressure was low hot idle 10 psi 45 psi at 4000 rpm.

I love telling the truth, makes me look more like a liar!  Most people rather hear some bullcrap instead cause they rather believe that instead of truth  :wtf:

Javier

Do you mean 2 thosandths or 20 thosandths? .002-.003" is what I thought it should be.  :dunno

We are running 351/400 connecting rods in the 351 windsor.
We had 351W rod bearings instead of 400M rod bearings installed.
So that means we had .012 running clearence .010 too much!

Now we have it all under control and it will have .0025 rod bearing clearence.
The engine is almost ready to reassemble, will keep progress updated...

Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 06, 2011, 11:45:47 pm
Short block now assembled,  took some time to get there, still just a short block, the heads are fresh again, a lil beat up but still worth a roll.
Only issue I ran across is the Hyd roller block I have now along with the small Base cam and comp link bar hyd roller lifters I used before, The lifters sit low in the bores.

The block I had set the cam up in before was a non roller block, so I have to see what needs to be done to solve this issue.

Anyway soon this engine will be running again as I get more time to assemble.


Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: BirdMan on August 07, 2011, 12:44:33 pm
Look at the lifters at base circle to check for oiling band issues.  It might be too low as with some solid rollers are.


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: 68mustang405 on August 07, 2011, 01:07:16 pm
I thought you're only supposed to use a small base circle cam with stock style lifters cause they are taller than linkbar lifters?


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: knucklefux on August 07, 2011, 03:57:33 pm
I thought you were supposed to avoid small base circle cams all together  :whistling: :whistling:


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: ranchopower on August 07, 2011, 04:31:11 pm
Yes avoid them like the american dollar, but this combo is already purchased and works good, I got stuck using these parts. So SBC will or wont work in a hyd roller block, I dont see it working I may be fubar, I have to look a little more before I have to decide what to do.

Javier


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: knucklefux on August 07, 2011, 08:02:52 pm
Yeah, the lifter bosses are too tall.


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: 68mustang405 on August 07, 2011, 10:30:29 pm
either different cam, or different (stock style) lifters


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: aussieracer on August 19, 2011, 04:24:50 am
Mill a slot i'n the lifter  up from the waist band, parallel too the pin. On both dides ,It works on solid roller lifters


Title: Re: 351W long rod very short life
Post by: BirdMan on August 19, 2011, 08:03:58 pm
here is a link on modifying sr lifters to line up with lifter oiling passages in the block if the lifter oil band is below the passage hole.

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,13367.0.html