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General Tech => Carburetors Tech => Topic started by: gring on June 10, 2009, 11:42:53 am



Title: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: gring on June 10, 2009, 11:42:53 am
Is there a type of carb spacer material that any you have found works better than another as far as insulating the carb and generally just being able to hold up better?  I don't want this to be a "will a carb spacer work on my app?" thread. Just asking for opinions on the different types of material used to make the spacers such as aluminum vs. phelonic vs. wood.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 69 Merc on June 10, 2009, 11:47:50 am
Is there a type of carb spacer material that any you have found works better than another as far as insulating the carb and generally just being able to hold up better?  I don't want this to be a "will a carb spacer work on my app?" thread. Just asking for opinions on the different types of material used to make the spacers such as aluminum vs. phelonic vs. wood.  Thanks.

IMHO wood is dangerous because it has flammable properties.  Aluminum transfers heat quickly - so your carb will get hot fast.  Phenolic plastic is the best heat insulation.


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: oldmanjoe on June 10, 2009, 12:05:24 pm
well i use ply wood to experment with.     you can stack them ,and shape them easy.   once i find what the engine likes, i make it with phelonic.    joe


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: kenash on June 15, 2009, 07:19:57 pm
 :smile

Hey Joe,

I'be interested in how you determine how much room you have to work with before the air
cleaner nut contacts the hood.
 :Gluck:


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: oldmanjoe on June 15, 2009, 09:36:16 pm
straight edge across the fenders, measure down to carb.       straight across the bottom side of hood and measure up.    minus the thickness of the hood lip.   joe


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: kenash on June 15, 2009, 09:44:40 pm
 :party
straight edge across the fenders, measure down to carb.       straight across the bottom side of hood and measure up.    minus the thickness of the hood lip.   joe

Very good! my brother. I'll try that and let you know. I was thinking a little playdoh on the cleaner nut then close the hood and see what happens. I like your idea1
 :thanx:


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: Timo on September 12, 2009, 08:02:47 am
Is there a type of carb spacer material that any you have found works better than another as far as insulating the carb and generally just being able to hold up better?  I don't want this to be a "will a carb spacer work on my app?" thread. Just asking for opinions on the different types of material used to make the spacers such as aluminum vs. phelonic vs. wood.  Thanks.

IMHO wood is dangerous because it has flammable properties.  Aluminum transfers heat quickly - so your carb will get hot fast.  Phenolic plastic is the best heat insulation.

x2


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: quickshift on September 12, 2009, 10:03:02 am
Quote
9266 - Edelbrock Heat Insulator Gasket
I use these between the carb and a metal spacer of alum or steel(4 hole EGR plate) depending on application.


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: FordRacing250 on September 13, 2009, 08:24:11 pm
micarta.......


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: Fordota on September 13, 2009, 11:28:32 pm
micarta.......

...as in black micarta buck knife handles?


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 347HO on September 13, 2009, 11:44:16 pm
Buy a 1" and 1/2" Teflon cutting boards.
Cut them out to fit your intake and plenum.
Experiment with it till you get the best positive results.

Cheap
Easy to find
Easy to cut
Works real well

Don't overtorque.


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 429CJSleeper on September 14, 2009, 01:04:04 pm
Buy a 1" and 1/2" Teflon cutting boards.
Cut them out to fit your intake and plenum.
Experiment with it till you get the best positive results.

Cheap
Easy to find
Easy to cut
Works real well

Don't overtorque.

And for the cost of 1 phenolic spacer I bet you can buy several cutting boards - my 1" was almost $40!  Thanks for the tip!!!


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: the only Qualk on September 26, 2009, 12:57:56 pm
for those running plastic spacers after prolonged use have you had any melting issues?


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 69 Merc on September 26, 2009, 12:58:43 pm
for those running plastic spacers after prolonged use have you had any melting issues?

Not with my phenolic spacers.


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: vristang on September 26, 2009, 02:03:14 pm
Teflon should be good up to around 300F, on the safer side....


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: Captbb56 on October 01, 2009, 07:02:40 am
Jegs has their 1/2 and 1 inch plastic open spacers for 24 and 27 bucks.


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: teyerdhal on October 06, 2009, 05:23:49 pm
for those running plastic spacers after prolonged use have you had any melting issues?

I am using a 1" black pastic spacer and no melting issue even in hot weather and low speed situation.


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: teyerdhal on October 06, 2009, 05:27:07 pm
Quote
9266 - Edelbrock Heat Insulator Gasket
I use these between the carb and a metal spacer of alum or steel(4 hole EGR plate) depending on application.

Yes , i have used 9267 ones, good thin insulators (looks like asbestos...)


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 429CJSleeper on October 15, 2009, 06:37:10 pm
Jegs has their 1/2 and 1 inch plastic open spacers for 24 and 27 bucks.

I had to get a 2-barrel unit for a 500cfm 4412...

I once busted a guy running a big 'ol Demon; his air cleaner was just big enough to cover it, but the shine gave it away!


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 1987cp on October 15, 2009, 09:28:25 pm
Jegs has their 1/2 and 1 inch plastic open spacers for 24 and 27 bucks.


Summit's is cheaper still ($13?), but no 1/2" available IIRC. 

Is there any detriment to using the cheaper plastic spacers?


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: ranchopower on November 09, 2009, 05:04:25 pm
wood insulates the best from engine heat, and a hot carb will cause headaches if you drive in any hot climate, I have been using wood spacers for 15 years, on a typical hot Florida day, I could see  coolant temp as high as 240F, so I took out my digital temp gun and viewed, intake temp 220F carb temp 140F.
I could of done the same with plastic and or aluminum but those things caused vapor lock and I was waiting around the side of the road far from home.  for street use in hot climate WOOD is best JMHO
Javier


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 69 Merc on November 09, 2009, 05:59:50 pm
wood insulates the best from engine heat, and a hot carb will cause headaches if you drive in any hot climate, I have been using wood spacers for 15 years, on a typical hot Florida day, I could see  coolant temp as high as 240F, so I took out my digital temp gun and viewed, intake temp 220F carb temp 140F.
I could of done the same with plastic and or aluminum but those things caused vapor lock and I was waiting around the side of the road far from home.  for street use in hot climate WOOD is best JMHO
Javier

Wood is flammable, though.  That's why I use the phenolic plastic carb spacers.  Those keep my carb reasonably cool.


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 347HO on November 09, 2009, 06:46:46 pm
wood insulates the best from engine heat, and a hot carb will cause headaches if you drive in any hot climate, I have been using wood spacers for 15 years, on a typical hot Florida day, I could see  coolant temp as high as 240F, so I took out my digital temp gun and viewed, intake temp 220F carb temp 140F.
I could of done the same with plastic and or aluminum but those things caused vapor lock and I was waiting around the side of the road far from home.  for street use in hot climate WOOD is best JMHO
Javier

Wood is flammable, though.  That's why I use the phenolic plastic carb spacers.  Those keep my carb reasonably cool.
And Phenolic's density is such that the base of the carb doesn't warp!!!


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: ranchopower on November 09, 2009, 07:32:25 pm
I tried phenolic a few years and still had vapor lock. If my wood spacer is going to catch fire it will be cause the rest of my car is on fire.  :whistling:
Javier


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 347HO on November 09, 2009, 07:47:26 pm
I tried phenolic a few years and still had vapor lock. If my wood spacer is going to catch fire it will be cause the rest of my car is on fire.  :whistling:
Javier
Please explain how a hot carb creates a vapor lock. :dunno


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: ranchopower on November 09, 2009, 08:31:11 pm
I tried phenolic a few years and still had vapor lock. If my wood spacer is going to catch fire it will be cause the rest of my car is on fire.  :whistling:
Javier
Please explain how a hot carb creates a vapor lock. :dunno

I live in MIAMI FL it gets 95F here and I actually drive my cars.
I make runs to 3/4 different machine shops some 120 miles away
closest one is 40 miles away, I build my own cars and I am the one
if there is a problem I cant call somebody and beg for help, I figure it out
on my own. I learned that if a holley carb gets hot like over 180F the gas
 in the carb will boil and actually bypass the bowl and shoot out the vent and
 flood the car out, stuck on the side of the road, been there done that.
I have a high volume fuel system that fills a gallon of gas in 18 seconds and
I run a bypass regulator mounted at the carb, it returns to the tank and it is
all plumbed #10 with a 220hr BG pump or a BG280 depending on how much NOS I plan
to use.
I set every fuel system like this cause it works, if you ask me to plumb a sysytem
that is the only way I will do it.
just for example, just this last summer August I was on my way to machine shop and got into traffic
hot as hell, right at the MIA airport car shut off no fuel. pump would not prime even with 10 gallons
in the tank, I was trying out an aluminum 1inch super sucker spacer and the carb got so hot the fuel refused
to go to the carb, I had to wait 45 min so the pump would prime, went home and wood spacer went back on.
if you live in a cooler state you may never have these problems lucky you!
Javier


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 347HO on November 09, 2009, 08:51:17 pm
I read your post twice...  didn't see an explanation for vapor lock.
If you're running an electric pump to the log or whatever you're using to connect the two bowls and a bypass from the log (or whatever)...  how is it you're experiencing vapor lock?
By your extended description of the fuel system, there's absolutely no way for vapor lock to occur.

I lived in Glendale AZ for 4 years...  no vapor lock.  I attribute that to a good fuel system and a working gas cap.  No wood. :orglaugh


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: ranchopower on November 09, 2009, 09:08:58 pm
I read your post twice...  didn't see an explanation for vapor lock.
If you're running an electric pump to the log or whatever you're using to connect the two bowls and a bypass from the log (or whatever)...  how is it you're experiencing vapor lock?
By your extended description of the fuel system, there's absolutely no way for vapor lock to occur.

I lived in Glendale AZ for 4 years...  no vapor lock.  I attribute that to a good fuel system and a working gas cap.  No wood. :orglaugh
I was broke down due to it, it actually was the demise of a BG280 I was using, the under hood temp is maybe more than you experience, why you ask? I run Evans coolant wich usually in traffic sees 200/220F temps so under the hood compared to a engine running 180F could be the straw that broke the camels back.

like I said I drive my car in extreme heat and traffic, I dont like it but little by little I have eliminated my fuel vapor lock troubles, I finally added a aluminum heat soak like the trans cooler, street rod style, right behind the front bumper and that seem to keep things nice.
Javier


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 69 Merc on November 09, 2009, 10:26:48 pm
Not picking on you or anyone else, OK?  I'm just stating my experience.  I've lived in Anaheim for 8 years now and in the summer months it gets to the 90's and also with a couple of 100*F days.  I have never had any problems with "vapor lock" or any other fuel/carb problem while driving my Merc even when I used to have the OEM POS "top to bottom" radiator which would on occasion make my coolant temp run 215-230*F.

I have 3" split into 3 phenolic plastic spacers on top of my Air-Gap manifold -- 1 spacer is a four-hole and the other two are open ones.  I have modified my OEM hood so the back end of the hood closest to the front windshield has around 3" of space off of it's OEM position.  I also fabricated up a front facing scoop to further aid in getting rid of the friggin' hot-assed engine air.  So it's like a cowl hood with a scoop in front, too!  Works good in the summer and way friggin' EXCELLENT in the cold winter mornings believe me!!!


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: ranchopower on November 09, 2009, 10:39:15 pm
I aint got no issues with you just relax, Im laid back, call me a liar and I will get the thread locked.
I was wondering is the mercury Montego frame or unit body? Im thinking frame.
Javier


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 69 Merc on November 09, 2009, 10:59:33 pm
I aint got no issues with you just relax, Im laid back, call me a liar and I will get the thread locked.
I was wondering is the mercury Montego frame or unit body? Im thinking frame.
Javier

My Merc is OEM frame.  I have welded up sub-frame connectors and I have also welded at key points bars of steel to further strengthen the frame.  Here is a photo of my hood -- it's heavy compared to fiberglass but works for now.  Hopefully in the bottom photo you can kinda see the raised hood from the windshield side?  That raised OEM hood and self-made thin-steel hood scoop REALLY help on those hot and cold days.  On the hot days it especially helps rid the compartment of the hot air and on the cold days it helps usher in good and cold air for badass acceleration due to the increased helpings of oxygen!

(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/Mercurypic1-20-08004.jpg)

(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt182/sixtyninemercury/Mercurybodyphotos3-14-09003.jpg)


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: ranchopower on November 09, 2009, 11:04:30 pm
time to put the steelie wheels in the attic, lighten up the load, that is a oem hood with a scoop or all oem?
did those cars come with 429/460 or 390/428? If I saw that thing in my rear view Im pulling over to let you by, I be scared of that thing :??? i dont know wich car is uglier ur or mine?
Javier


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 347HO on November 09, 2009, 11:39:59 pm
time to put the steelie wheels in the attic, lighten up the load, that is a oem hood with a scoop or all oem?
did those cars come with 429/460 or 390/428? If I saw that thing in my rear view Im pulling over to let you by, I be scared of that thing :??? i dont know wich car is uglier ur or mine?
Javier
:spit:
Holy shit that's fucking funny as hell!

On a more serious side...  I've had my ass handed to me by some super ugly, friggin cars.


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: ranchopower on November 10, 2009, 12:29:44 am
now that I look I see that your front bumper looks the same as mine, probably is, ugly thing
Javier


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 69 Merc on November 10, 2009, 11:31:49 am
time to put the steelie wheels in the attic, lighten up the load, that is a oem hood with a scoop or all oem?
did those cars come with 429/460 or 390/428? If I saw that thing in my rear view Im pulling over to let you by, I be scared of that thing :??? i dont know wich car is uglier ur or mine?
Javier
:spit:
Holy shit that's fucking funny as hell!

On a more serious side...  I've had my ass handed to me by some super ugly, friggin cars.

Ugly?  Easy now -- that's my baby and it's got lots of unique character!  When I drop that built 445" stroker in it you won't have any time to "pull over to let me pass" because I'll have already blown past you when you figure out what the hell was that loud noise behind you . . .   :burnout


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: ranchopower on November 10, 2009, 11:46:26 am
time to put the steelie wheels in the attic, lighten up the load, that is a oem hood with a scoop or all oem?
did those cars come with 429/460 or 390/428? If I saw that thing in my rear view Im pulling over to let you by, I be scared of that thing :??? i dont know wich car is uglier ur or mine?
Javier
:spit:
Holy shit that's fucking funny as hell!

On a more serious side...  I've had my ass handed to me by some super ugly, friggin cars.

Ugly?  Easy now -- that's my baby and it's got lots of unique character!  When I drop that built 445" stroker in it you won't have any time to "pull over to let me pass" because I'll have already blown past you when you figure out what the hell was that loud noise behind you . . .   :burnout
I have a keen sense keeping noisy things behind me, I have a 433 in the works also so we may be 2 MO FO ugly cars scaring paint off the street.
Javier


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: Redrocket9.0 on March 11, 2010, 02:55:56 am
Uhhhh. I hate to drag an old thread back on topic, but hey, gotta do it. I'm hearing some stuff about cutting boards and i'm curious. Could I make a laminate Q-jet adapter with those plastic cutting boards by gluing 3 or 4 together then carving the appropriate holes? If so, what kind of adhesive? If not cutting boards, what else might work for a good cheap insulating adapter? Thanks.


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: jayh on March 11, 2010, 08:33:40 am
corian works good but it can break. I have fabbed spacers out of corian before(custom application where I couldnt buy what I wanted)

I'v run wood spacers on several motors. I dont see a problem?  :dunno


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: Fordota on March 11, 2010, 10:16:24 am
Yeah I have heard of many running wood too. But hit up the dollar store and just grab one cutting board. In my opinion you should stack however many you want together and counter sink 4 bolts and nuts to hold them all together tight. Then you can machine them all out as one piece. Then when you get the shape close you can take them apart and add gaskets and reassemble for blending.

Now that I think about it, Im not sure you'd need gaskets at all. Or maybe just a tiny bit of RTV.  :wonder:

Anyway I have worked with that material a lot (like just last night) and I always assemble the pieces so you can get them all perfect together. Then once its done  you can leave them bolted together if you want so you have a one piece unit.
 :Gluck:


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 347HO on March 11, 2010, 11:01:51 am
I use gaskets Dustin...  then you add or delete for tuning.


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 1987cp on March 11, 2010, 11:14:31 am
What do you guys use to carve out the spacers?  I'm envisioning making the rough openings with a drill/saber saw routine and bringing it up to size with a sanding drum chucked in a die grinder.


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 347HO on March 11, 2010, 11:22:33 am
Your imagination is free to let loose here.

I've used Hole Saws, 14" wheel sander, saber saw, rotary cutter, wood file.


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: oldmanjoe on March 11, 2010, 11:32:47 am
i feel very comfortable with a router, whether free hand or in a table.     after one is made , a pattern bitt makes quick work of the rest.      joe


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: Fordota on March 11, 2010, 01:25:40 pm
i feel very comfortable with a router, whether free hand or in a table.     after one is made , a pattern bitt makes quick work of the rest.      joe
:goodpost: :+1:

Thats my take on it too. In my experience the nylon type cutting board material CUTS awesome but doesn't like sandpaper near as much. It will still work and I still do it but I say to cut with a router as much as you can to minimize sanding. I have found a file works pretty good on the stuff too for cleaning up the edges. (think CUT not SAND)

This is funny this came up today, I just made a heater hose clamp out of nylon last night  :party


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 69 Merc on March 11, 2010, 02:07:41 pm


This is funny this came up today, I just made a heater hose clamp out of nylon last night  :party


Pics?


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: oldmanjoe on March 11, 2010, 02:19:43 pm


This is funny this came up today, I just made a heater hose clamp out of nylon last night  :party


Pics?
  way too much free time ,you have.    :spit:    joe


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: Fordota on March 11, 2010, 03:04:38 pm
 :nono2:

On the contrary, you spoiled guys with your bolt on brackets and such. You get to screw around making carb spacers for FUN.


I even have to make my goddamn HOSE CLAMPS :fu:
 

:orglaugh




Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: gtcoupe on March 11, 2010, 11:12:41 pm
 :dissap:  I'd GIVE you a couple hose clamps buddy.    :spit:


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: Fordota on March 12, 2010, 12:23:03 am
(http://www.boston.com/news/globe/west/WileE.jpg)


Title: Re: Carb Spacer Material
Post by: 351 windsor snake on March 12, 2010, 01:05:03 am
   Dustin,you need to stop using those ACME products.