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Author Topic: best cam for 347?  (Read 13221 times)
liljoe07
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« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2010, 06:43:56 am »

The whole question is loaded. I got $100 says the "biggest and Meanest" OTS cam doesn't give the best performance out of other OTS cams that are smaller.

And anybody that's stands behind this guys "biggest and meanest" suggestion and this "grass roots" theory should be shot by a firing squad.
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« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2010, 07:40:40 am »

he asked about the biggest meanest OTS shelf cam recommended hows that not grass roots?
not sayin thats the right way to go about getting the best cam he could possibly stick in there but that was the question, and isn't that what the grass roots is supposed to be about?

Yet..... how would he find out about it not being the right way to go about if it is not mentioned and explained? Besides, if he needs to reconfigure most of the valve train anyway, and budget (as in making sure he spends it right once) is key, he should be made aware of the correct alternatives..... regardless if it's the grassroots section.
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« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2010, 10:11:23 am »

I think the biggest thing that can be learned in the "grass roots" section is how dumb it is to throw parts together, to save money.

The idea of grass roots should immediately tell everyone that poor parts choices are being discussed.

Yes Joel, I agree entirely that the grass roots section is the place to discuss the concept of the best parts, the right parts, and the negatives of the alternative parts. It will never be learned by most people how poor OTS cams are compared to a custom cam. For that reason alone the subject needs to be beaten to death, over and over again, forever.

All car guys should learn to strive for the best parts, learn what the best choices are, and after that decide how their budget should be spent. The problem is that almost everyone ignores the best choices, assuming it's all way too far beyond their budget. They begin with all of the car magazine bad information, spread in their personal experience, various buddies', and then pick out random parts.

The values of the wrong people and factors are being used to make the parts decisions. The real experts like Jay and Woody are minor buzzing in the background to most people. They don't hear them, or never listen for them, or discount/ignore them.

I treasure the knowledge of the experts, I'm old enough to have learned what I can do, and what things are vital to rely on experts for. That's what this is all about, like every OTS cam thread.

The point is, do not ever buy a new OTS cam, either use what you actually own, or buy a custom cam. The OTS cam companies should not make any profit from those awful cams. They should be steering people towards a custom cam, having this conversation with them. Regards,
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Don
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« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2010, 10:42:27 am »

 Good Post

I guess this thread is getting a little bit derailed, but in a good way.
I have been confused about the grass roots vs other sections for a while now. I dont really know where to post a lot of the time. The parts on my car aren't really grass roots, but I dont know squat, so I usually post in grass roots. And that is not a slam at anybody posting in grass roots.
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Joel5.0
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« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2010, 11:20:18 am »

Believe it or not, and even if I get some flack for saying so, grassroots can, may, have included custom cam cases. Hide.....

Still remember a case that went all wrong with a custom cam customer (due to his own and/or builder's assembler's fault)...it ended up with a lousy performing setup and broke a lot of parts.

However, the person that ended up buying that custom cam, installed it in a setup that was not compatible with the cam's profile (total grassroots approach, cam was designed for something different), yet ended up running 6.70 ET in the 660' with a restricted setup, and not breaking parts.........   Whistling
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
dbiscayne
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« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2010, 02:05:56 pm »

not pushing OTS cams at all, I completely agree with everyone that a custom is going to perform better, but saying an OTS cam with the right supporting parts won't work for crap just aint always true, and yep the question showed some misconceptions bigger don't mean better.  Personally I was a little interested in what kind of recommendations would be given, from the many knowledgeable people this site has (not being sarcastic).
throw some educated guesses out there
as  the sticky at the top of this forum says, OTS stuff.
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« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2010, 02:25:31 pm »

I still stand by my post. A cam for a 347 with canted valve heads(unique ones at that) in a heavy car with a tight converter is not grass roots. You will not find that application in a catalog anywhere.

This question should have been moved to a more appropriate section as soon as it was posted.
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« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2010, 02:34:59 pm »

Believe it or not, and even if I get some flack for saying so, grassroots can, may, have included custom cam cases. Hide.....

Still remember a case that went all wrong with a custom cam customer (due to his own and/or builder's assembler's fault)...it ended up with a lousy performing setup and broke a lot of parts.

However, the person that ended up buying that custom cam, installed it in a setup that was not compatible with the cam's profile (total grassroots approach, cam was designed for something different), yet ended up running 6.70 ET in the 660' with a restricted setup, and not breaking parts.........   Whistling
I remember that, and the original owner of that cam continued to flick boogers at Jay and wouldn't accept responsibility for his own fuckups.
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69 Merc
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« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2010, 02:49:55 pm »

not pushing OTS cams at all, I completely agree with everyone that a custom is going to perform better, but saying an OTS cam with the right supporting parts won't work for crap just aint always true,

I agree with this statement of yours right here 100%.  If I could give you a ride in my Merc today you would also agree with me, too.  On friggin' street radials I can rip off a VERY respectable 0 to 50MPH merging with traffic here in the wild streets of Southern California even with my heavy land yacht Merc.  Check my Merc's current build in my signature below.  Would my Merc be even faster with a $100 more custom billet camshaft?  Yes!  I'm happy for now and I'm saving for my future motor or I would change my cam today . . .

My next motor will have a custom steel billet camshaft made for it because I learned the difference in power from this forum and of course I'm only in it for the badass power which translates into the quickest acceleration.

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Robert's 1969 Mercury Montego (FordStrokers 408W, QFT 850cfm RQ-AN, Super Victor, 2" aluminum open spacer, CamMotion HR .624/.609 251/256 108, 1-3/4" x 3" headers, Broader Performance RmV/B under a C6/4R100 behind a 8"/9" billet 5500 stall, 9" 4.56 Detroit Truetrac, M/T ET radial streets 315/60-15 on 10" rims)

The Merc started here = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,27178.0.html

Irwindale Speedway 1/8 mile (1st time at a track!) = 7.647 @ 90.78mph with a crappy 1.878 sixty foot (3850# race weight)

Present day Merc = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,34648.0.html


Except that engine building (properly) is a labor intensive industry.  Who do you think does all the measuring and machining?  Little engine shop fairies?  Not to mention assembly, mock up and parts fitting.

At Woody's level you are not just paying for his labor but for his skill set as well.

Thanks FordStrokers 408W, Westminster Performance Transmission (W.P.T.) transmissions, TCS Performance converters, Broader Performance valvebodies and last but not least a BIG thanks (always) to my friends here and abroad in the World!
jayh
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« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2010, 03:49:50 pm »

there are definately some smart people here.

the truth is, alot of people dont really know whats absolute best, while they have experience in certain situations/past builds, they are safer and better off relying on expert advice, aside from machining tolerance issues, etc.
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« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2010, 09:00:23 am »

the truth is, alot of people dont really know whats absolute best, while they have experience in certain situations/past builds, they are safer and better off relying on expert advice, aside from machining tolerance issues, etc.

absolutely agree with that. 
other than knowing to run a billet core & getting the right springs etc. theres no way I'd try to pick out the right cam, waaaay too much going on there.  might get close, then again maybe not.
& the machining tolerance brings up a good point- even if you did pick the right OTS cam you still need to degree the hell out of it.
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dbiscayne
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« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2010, 09:07:01 am »

question for 69Merc, have you ever put you car on the scales?

guess which of these weights go with these cars- 3410, 3420, 3500 lbs

'71 camaro, big block, al. heads, fglass hood
'69 superbee, big block, al. heads, fglass hood
'68 convt. Fairlane, small block, steel heads


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« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2010, 10:49:53 am »

question for 69Merc, have you ever put you car on the scales?



Yep -- it weighs 3750#.  I weigh 200#.  Race weight would be 3950#.
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Robert's 1969 Mercury Montego (FordStrokers 408W, QFT 850cfm RQ-AN, Super Victor, 2" aluminum open spacer, CamMotion HR .624/.609 251/256 108, 1-3/4" x 3" headers, Broader Performance RmV/B under a C6/4R100 behind a 8"/9" billet 5500 stall, 9" 4.56 Detroit Truetrac, M/T ET radial streets 315/60-15 on 10" rims)

The Merc started here = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,27178.0.html

Irwindale Speedway 1/8 mile (1st time at a track!) = 7.647 @ 90.78mph with a crappy 1.878 sixty foot (3850# race weight)

Present day Merc = http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,34648.0.html


Except that engine building (properly) is a labor intensive industry.  Who do you think does all the measuring and machining?  Little engine shop fairies?  Not to mention assembly, mock up and parts fitting.

At Woody's level you are not just paying for his labor but for his skill set as well.

Thanks FordStrokers 408W, Westminster Performance Transmission (W.P.T.) transmissions, TCS Performance converters, Broader Performance valvebodies and last but not least a BIG thanks (always) to my friends here and abroad in the World!
dbiscayne
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« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2010, 01:13:16 pm »

damn that is pretty hefty, the Fairlane was only 3500, maybe 3550?  just always thought being a conv't it'd be heavier.
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David Claflin
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« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2010, 03:33:50 pm »

damn that is pretty hefty, the Fairlane was only 3500, maybe 3550?  just always thought being a conv't it'd be heavier.
3520, That's what my LX weighs with me in it
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1990 Red LX, 306, 75MM, ported gt40's, Holley SMII, accufab longtubes, 3" exhaust, 4.10's
1985 LTD LX 302, ported TW's, XE-264 cam, ported Holley SMII, 75MM-R TB, accufab 1 3/4" longtubes, 4R70W, mach 1 brakes
1988 GT long term project
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