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Author Topic: Big head small cam ?  (Read 27828 times)
93mustank
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« on: November 09, 2009, 11:22:54 am »

I am wanting to put together a little combo for my Silver 86 gt daily driver. Goals are 11.5's

I have a 86 red coupe thats getting a 347 with solid roller from jay. I am waitin on the cam and motor to be finished.

Tired of driving this stock motor around.

What I have for the silver gt car is:

Low mile stock block 302/on the engine stand
Tea 205 cnc heads/58cc/ Hyd roller spring/ 1.85 installed height/ 150 seat,400 open
Sytemax lower/box upper/75mm tb
24 inj and meter.
Long tubes/ 3 inch dumped at the axle
4.30 gear
T5
3100 with me in it. Full inerior/full accessory/Draglites


Now my dilemma..................

I have

Stock 89 cam/ use 1.7's
or
Billet core hyd roller .... 223 int 233 exh at .050 .... .532 lift on a 108 Lca

Neither cam is right. This I know


I would more than love to meet my goals with the stock cam....Also want to keep this car hyd roller. Looking to shift at 6700 ish.

My issues are :

Will the stock cam live with that amount of spring pressure?
Its going to be difficult to get the springs set up to such a low lift....??
If the cam would survive where will the cam check out(rpm)?

Thanks for your time.



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mighty mouse
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2009, 11:29:59 am »

What lifters are you planning on running?
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2009, 11:33:42 am »

I have a cam motion 220/230 530/530 112 lca that is homeless
Javier
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93mustank
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2009, 11:38:21 am »

What lifters are you planning on running?

Stock shimmed hyd rollers
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mighty mouse
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2009, 12:35:45 pm »

What lifters are you planning on running?

Stock shimmed hyd rollers

I would also like to know more details about the billet cam.

But I am thinking you would be "ok" with those springs and the stock cam for awhile.  I dont see it making power above 6000 or so - but that is an educated guess (at best) - even with the 1.7 rockers.

I am a big fan of HUGE heads and small camshafts... but this is around the area of - too big of heads for the cubes.  Might be fun though, and I would love to see what it actually does.  You relatively low weight, average size intake and decent gears will help things!
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1986 Mustang GT Convertible
Suspension and Differential by Team Z Motorsports
9.5 Deck Forged Stroker Shortblock by FordStrokers
Trick Flow High Ports and Super Vic EFI intake by Duane Busch

I'd rather be a fool who is loyal to his friends than a POS that jumps ship to save face. We were wrong in the end, but nobody can ever call us disloyal. I can live with that.
93mustank
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2009, 12:48:59 pm »

What lifters are you planning on running?

Stock shimmed hyd rollers

I would also like to know more details about the billet cam.

But I am thinking you would be "ok" with those springs and the stock cam for awhile.  I dont see it making power above 6000 or so - but that is an educated guess (at best) - even with the 1.7 rockers.

I am a big fan of HUGE heads and small camshafts... but this is around the area of - too big of heads for the cubes.  Might be fun though, and I would love to see what it actually does.  You relatively low weight, average size intake and decent gears will help things!

This is why I wanted to do it......Big heads, too big of intake,too big of exhuast.

I wanted to try and do it all with a stock cam.... But I dont know if that will work. 6000 rpm prob wont cut it. And I am worried how well the cam will take the spring pressure.

The billet core hyd roller is a doug herbert....totally spaced on the specs....here are the real specs.

#cj6pj

224 int  234 exh  .532 int  .536 exh  112 lca
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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2009, 01:05:27 pm »

Cylinder filling and scavenge will not be even close to work "great" or even "well" with a stock cam.

There's rarely an instance when a single part is changed and optimal performance is achieved.
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... it was REALLY revving at like 4K...
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93mustank
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2009, 01:13:37 pm »

Cylinder filling and scavenge will not be even close to work "great" or even "well" with a stock cam.

There's rarely an instance when a single part is changed and optimal performance is achieved.

I have all my eggs in another basket currently.

I realize the car will run ok or well not optimal.....Thats fine by me for now.

I really wanted to try this combo out.

But if it wont work it wont work.
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93mustank
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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2009, 06:49:11 pm »

Any more input?
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Joel5.0
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2009, 07:21:14 pm »

Any more input?

Try the stock cam.... it will not be optimum but you should see a difference when compared to the other alternative (big heads + big cam)... or over the more duration/overlap cam...BTSTDT. Will the SADI cam survive those spring pressures?..... it should... make sure the PR's and lifters are up to the task though... you want to control the cam material induced deflection somehow. Again... it will not be optimum, but that other setup is a WIP.... is it not?
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93mustank
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2009, 11:56:40 pm »

Any more input?

Try the stock cam.... it will not be optimum but you should see a difference when compared to the other alternative (big heads + big cam)... or over the more duration/overlap cam...BTSTDT. Will the SADI cam survive those spring pressures?..... it should... make sure the PR's and lifters are up to the task though... you want to control the cam material induced deflection somehow. Again... it will not be optimum, but that other setup is a WIP.... is it not?

Yes the 347 is a wip.....Will be for a little while.... So in the mean time I will just play around with the daily.
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Fordguy
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2009, 07:13:07 pm »

I'm in a similar situation as you....

Relatively speaking...big intake, big heads (High Port in my case), big exhaust but using the stock cam in a stock 92 short block. 

I think it might be an OK combination for the short term with something bigger and better for the long term.
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jayh
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2009, 05:50:28 pm »

is there any reason why the herbert cam wouldnt be a better choice given the usage and criteria?
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2009, 07:28:14 pm »

is there any reason why the herbert cam wouldnt be a better choice given the usage and criteria?

Quote
224 int  234 exh  .532 int  .536 exh  112 lca

Is huge.

Those lobes are very big at .200"

For a 205 TW head (same as 216 afr and 226 HP) on a 302/306, the cam must be no bigger than 210* on the intake and lift in the .575" area.

224* and .536 will make a TQ'less pig and everyone will be crying that the head is too big.
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« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2009, 12:47:35 am »

is there any reason why the herbert cam wouldnt be a better choice given the usage and criteria?

Quote
224 int  234 exh  .532 int  .536 exh  112 lca

Is huge.

Those lobes are very big at .200"

For a 205 TW head (same as 216 afr and 226 HP) on a 302/306, the cam must be no bigger than 210* on the intake and lift in the .575" area.

224* and .536 will make a TQ'less pig and everyone will be crying that the head is too big.

Couple of questions..any information you can add would be awesome. 
Is the 210* duration for a large head like that on a relatively small cube engine, tied to flow numbers, MCSA, ACSA, or?.. I'm curious how much smaller that stuff needs to be before you go with more duration.    How would that recommendation change if he used 170 standard TW's?
How about the exhaust duration.. is it good?  If tied with that 210 and a wider than most LSA, would that become a more acceptable cam?
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