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Author Topic: A9x ECM's (and same years ECM's) Failures Due to Age  (Read 30095 times)
Joel5.0
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« on: March 06, 2009, 07:24:57 pm »

A9x ECM's (and same years ECM's) Failures Due to Age


The "patient" in question is a remanufactured A9L unit. This ECM is the one from a little notch project I'm working on. It started giving some problems starting up, engine flooding, random hesitation, missing and stalls. I opened up the ECM (the car is running with a A9S unit) after the owner brought it for a checkup.

What you see is the typical electrolytic capacitors leak, causing intermittent shorts/opens to the neighboring circuits/components and symptoms as the ones explained. Worst case scenarios with this type of failure, is a permanent no start and permanent damage to the PWB preventing it could be repaired. As soon as I replace the capacitors I'll update with the pictures showing the repairs.

The "Patient":



The Patient's Internals:

The Problems:







The following capacitor does not show any leakage problems however, it will also be replaced as a preventative measure....... JIC.


The "Replacements":

The Finished Product:


No more random "no starts" and engine missing problems.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2009, 06:09:05 am by Joel5.0 » Logged

ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
vristang
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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2009, 08:26:24 pm »

I noticed 2 different part numbers on the caps...

Is there a reason?
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Joel5.0
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2009, 09:13:05 pm »

Yep.... you have two 47's and one 10.
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
vristang
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« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2009, 03:05:01 am »

Yep.... you have two 47's and one 10.

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Quote from: Albert Einstein
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Find a young one, so you can raise her right.
PeteCleary
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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2009, 10:47:47 am »


Thanks for posting this up Joel 

I really should pull mine out and check it. I probably have the caps needed in my parts bins.  At the age of these things it doesn't hurt to do some checking.
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2009, 08:27:43 pm »

Joel, 

I just went up and picked up the capaciters from Radio shack...

I just noticed in your pictures the one is a 63v and one is 16v.

I didn't right down the volt, only the part numbers.

Both of them are 35v.  2 are 47uF's and 1 is 10uF. 

Are these wrong???

Thanks,

Alan
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Joel5.0
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« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2009, 08:28:55 pm »

Nope... they work fine.
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ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
93lxcoupe5.0
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2009, 08:33:40 pm »

 Thanx!

Alan
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93lxcoupe5.0
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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2009, 08:45:42 pm »

Joel,

What method do you use for cleaning up the old corrosion of the board.   I was told by someone a fine stiff bristle brush maybe dipped in alcohol if any thing..  Huh?

Oh yeah, and what are those little green dots all over the board that look like overspray?  Mine has it but my cousins doesn't have any at all.

Thanks again,

Alan
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Joel5.0
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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2009, 08:57:28 pm »

I scrape the area with a pick or a jeweler's flat screwdriver. You can use alcohol, carb/contact cleaner, but you need to expose (carefully, of course) the PWB lines. Corrosion from the electrolyte can cause lines to open.  The green dots on the board are from the resin cover process they did to seal/protect the solder joints from moisture/contaminants way back when.... nothing to worry about.
Logged

ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
93lxcoupe5.0
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« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2009, 11:06:09 pm »

Thanks for all the help Joel.  The pictures were a great reference.   I didn't realize there was a negative and a positive until the last second. 

It looks like a good fix.  I will take pictures of it tomorrow.

the first one took about 1 hour, then we realized you have to scrape off that resin just to heat it up.

the second one took about 20 minutes, and the third took about 10 minutes.   

this thread was a big help!

Thanks again,

Alan

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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2009, 08:54:52 pm »

Good find and post!  Thanks!
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« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2011, 01:38:19 pm »

Joel, do you have any info on the SN95 pcm?

seems to be a 16v 47uf?
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95gt, stock forged 302 shirtblock, canfield 195's, canfield efi intake; efi sheetmetal elbow, xe258 (208/216 .550), 90mm accufab TB, 69mm gt45, 3in cold side, a/a intercooler, water injection, ba5000 maf, 80lb injectors, moates quarterhorse, stock manifold modified & a log manifold, twin 2in up pipes, 60mm wg, 3.5 dp dumped, 14psi, 3.27s, solid bushing rear upper/lower team z suspension, team z tubular k member and A arms, front coil overs with strange 10 way all the way around. TKO600, stock flywheel, ram replacement pressure plate and kevlar/organic disc. 450rwhp 12.39 @ 123.5mph 3400lbs
Joel5.0
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« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2011, 08:43:15 pm »

Nope.... not yet. If it does show the signs of leakage though, replace it.
Logged

ACRONYMS:
LUK  LMK  JIC  BTSTDTRT  YCYDYP  NFI-YTM  SPOBI, and the classic... DILLIGAS

'86 Mustang GT, X-303 cam, Holley DP 700, RG Tran., 289 Heads   Ford Smilie 2


Quote from: Joel5.0
The right to be stupid is inalienable for sure however, there is no such thing as a right to impose stupidity onto others
Great Thoughts will Overwhelm a Feeble Mind
There is never money to do it right, but there's always money to do it over.
Knowledge based on external evidence is unreliable.
He, who doesn't ask, does not deserve an answer.
A mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.  (oldmanjoe)
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Tuning on a Dyno for the track, is like swim practice in a bathtub.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. (90lxcoupe)
The proof of understanding is the ability to explain it. (H. Torruella)
Ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic.
Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it. (Samuel Johnson)
The chaotic resistance of the opponents leads to the conclusion that they are not prepared to meet the challenge. The problem is already much more psychological then technological. [Bojidar Djordjev]
Individuals are rational and humane... Crowds are reactionary and barbaric. (Jason)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. –Chinese Proverb
Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand - Cardinal de Retz
95GTspeeddemon
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« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2011, 09:00:07 pm »

Nope.... not yet. If it does show the signs of leakage though, replace it.
It seems like it. i see some browning around it, and thats the only one. I cleaned it with rubbing alcohol (and some yellowed dielectric grease in the connector) and as of yesterday the problem was fixed.

Im practicing taking off SMC (Surface Mount Capacitor), since its different than the A9X PCM's with Through mount capacitors.
I have never done anything on a circuit board and trying to keep from ruining the board. I have a dead eec 5 pcm to practice on.
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95gt, stock forged 302 shirtblock, canfield 195's, canfield efi intake; efi sheetmetal elbow, xe258 (208/216 .550), 90mm accufab TB, 69mm gt45, 3in cold side, a/a intercooler, water injection, ba5000 maf, 80lb injectors, moates quarterhorse, stock manifold modified & a log manifold, twin 2in up pipes, 60mm wg, 3.5 dp dumped, 14psi, 3.27s, solid bushing rear upper/lower team z suspension, team z tubular k member and A arms, front coil overs with strange 10 way all the way around. TKO600, stock flywheel, ram replacement pressure plate and kevlar/organic disc. 450rwhp 12.39 @ 123.5mph 3400lbs
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